HomeMy WebLinkAbout1993-09-07 Minimum dwelling size e
TOWN OF GROTON
ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
TUESDAY ,. SEPTEMBER 7 ,, 1993 ,, 7 : 30 P . M .
_JOSEPH AND LINDA WILBUR , 396 LICK STREET,, GROTON,, NEW YORK ,. FOR ALLEGED VIOLATIONS
OF' THE GROTON LAND USE & DEVELOPMENT CODE ,. SECTION 352 . 1 . c-MINIMUM SIZE DWELLINGY
REQUIRED 840 SQ . FT . FOR ENVELOPE OF STRUCTURE AND SECTION 354. . 1 . a-DIMENSION
REGULATIONS-FRONTAGE OR PRINCIPAL FRONTAGE 200 CONTIQUOUS FEET MINIMUM; ( PER DWELLING
UNIT ) .
ZONING BOARD PUBLIC PRESENT
( *Denotes Members Present )
* Lyle Raymond ,, Chairman George Senter
* Mary Decker Fran Casullo ,� Esq .
* David Ofner_ Joseph & Linda Wilbur
* John Pachai
* Nial Smith
L . RAYMOND : Opened . the Zoning Board of Appeals ( ZBA ) public_ hearing at 7 : 35 p . m .
by reading the legal notice ( Attachment A ) . This hearing :is not
a variance request by actually a hearing on an alleged violation .
The beginning of this ping started off when a resident . wrote a
letter Cdelen D.Duglas to the code enforcement officer ( CEO )
( Attachment B ) . When the CEO receives such things ,, a procedure is
set forth . Basically ,, what the CEO ,, in this case , George Senter ,.
does is to check into the alleged violations . Mr . Senter has
a stated period of time for which he must do this and report back
according to the code . He did report back and sent a le biter to
me dated August 41, 1993 ( Attachment C ) . I should have stated
that Helen Douglas 's letter is dated July 11, 1993 . The minutes
of the Tozm Board for Apr ; l 1987 into r. = v
1987 have to d: w i Li i t ht=
hearing that they conducted on q ariance request at that time .
I need to explain that at that time , the Town Board was administering
the mobile home ordinance . Since this had to do wit moveable
structure , it was considered appropriate that they � with it
under the mobile home ordinance . Since that time in 1987 ,• the
wn Board had the mobile home ordinance transferred for inistra-
ve purposes to the Board of Zoning Appeals ,, so the ZBPO now
� )
r ministers both the Land Use Code and the Mobile Home Ordinance ,
that ' s the change that took place . The Town Board acting in
air capacity dated May 12 ,, 1987 ,, said " RESOLVED ,, that the Town
3rd does hereby deny Mr . and Mrs . Joseph Wilbur request for
Variance to reside in a 5th wheel recreation vehicle on their
Ipperty on Lick Street . " I then sent a letter to Mr . and Mrs .
Lbur ,, as the code requires ,, indicating which sections of the
Je that they were alleged to be in violation of and indicated
1t=othe � egaemer� s=rn_the�co_de_-as t factr that they have
reply within 15 days . Or ,, if no answer is received , to go
dad with the public hearing anyway . I will not read ' the _ whole
',ter here because it restates pretty much what has already
!n said . The Wilburs then responded dated August 19 ,, 1993 .
,Iny,, for your records , my letter to the Wilburs was dated
lust 12 ,, 1993 . Anyways ,, the letter read as follows :
Dear Mr . Raymond :
We have received your letter dated August 12 ,, 1993 . We
- - - - _ - - - have read your letter ,, Mr . George Senter ' s letter ,, and
Mrs . Helen Douglas ' s letter ,I as well as the attached
documentation regarding the previous decision . We can
To.v;n of Groton Zoning Board of Appeals ,, T.ue'sday ,, September 7 ,, 1993 ,, 7 : 30 p . m . Page 3
i
W L . RAYMOND * OK . When Town Board had this before ,, they made a determination ,,
of course ,, as you know .
J . WILBUR : Their determination was a violation of . They did not grant a
variance . Plain and simple and fact .
L . RAYMOND : OK . OK .
J . WILBUR : There was no proof one way or the other what the wrong was or
who was wrong or who was right . Re-read your variance right
there .
Le RAYMOND : You say that you are using this as a camper for camping and/or
recreational purposes?
J . WILBUR : That ' s right .
L . RAYMOND , What recreational activities do you engage in there?
J . WILBUR : I go all over New York State to work and that ' s a camping vehicle
that I use on the job . I use it as pleasure camping and anywhere
else I want to go .
D . OFNER : I would like to clarify that . First place ,, I would .like to say that
I am not aware that we were talking about mobile homes at this
time ,. are we? it doesn ' t seem to be part of the issue .
Le RAYMOND : The issue was just opened by Mr . Wilbur .
D . OFNER : OK . Reference your camping vehicle or whatever you call it .
You do have a permanent home somewheres , . is that right ?
J . WILBUR : The home is right at the address that everybody ' s bitching about .
D . OFNER : Pardon me . Do you have a permanent home ? A place that you call
home ?
J . WILBUR : 396 Lick Street .
D . OFNER : What is that ? Describe that to . me .
J . WILBUR : That 2 . 5 acres with a dwelling on it ,, a 32 x 28-foot garage on
it ,, a barn on the back side of that ,, and a fenced-in pasture ,, and
a garden .
D. OFNER : I ' m just talking about the place where you live . The dwelling .
J . WILBUR : The dwelling is the house that started in 1969 and finished in
1973 .
D . OFNER : Now,, you are also camping around the country but maintain a home .
J . WILBUR : Right . I have for the past 20 years .
D . OFNER : You are the only person who lives in that home?
J . WILBUR : No . My family lives there . Now I bet you ' re asking what consists
of a family . I have a daughter that lives there with us .
D . OFNER : And you are now living with your daughter?
J . WILBUR : She lives with us . The point is that you ' re getting into a pod
Tom of Groton Zoning Board of Appeals ,r - Tuesday,, September 7 ,, 1993 ,, 7 : 30 a . m . Page 5
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D . OFNER : No . I ' m sorry ., . .
L . RAYMOND : OK . OK . I think this dialogue on this particular aspect here
is that Mr . Wilbur has stated what he wants to state ,, and if you
are satisfied with that statement for the record Mr . Wilbur . .
J . WILBUR : His question . . . what difference where I stay . I am not at home
365 days out of the year . I ' m out on the road about 300 days of
last year between here and Florida . My residence according to
my New York State driver ' s license is 396 Lick Street and that
396 Lick Street has nothing to do whether it is a 5th wheel
or my house or my garage !
L . RAYMOND : OK . Is that your statement for the record?
J : WILBUR : Yes ,, that ' s my statement !
L . RAYMOND : OK . Then , does does anyone else have any further questions for Mr .
Wilbur and Mrs . Wilbur?
J . PACHAI : I would like to know if Mrs . Wilbur also considers his on-the-road . . .
First of all , let me clarify this . We are here because we are part
of the Board and are obligated to ask certain questions to at least
try to clarify the issue at hand and ask questions typically in an
effort to appease the person who is being cited to try to find a
way to give them a variance . It ' s not a matter of being against .
I can understand how you feel . Please don ' t feel that every question
is mean ' t to hurt rather than help .
L . WILBUR : Sometimes I go on the road with him and when at home ,, I am in
the house .
L . RAYMOND .& Anyone else ? OK . We do have our Town attorney here with us ,,
and Mr . Casullo , do you have any clarification for the record
on the interpretation in regard to residence in the way Mr . Wilbur
has been describing ?
F . CASULLO,1 ESQ . Well . Let me put it this way . A lot of what Mr . Wilbur is
saying ,, I just do not know . I got into this situation far
late . I believe in 1987 . As far as the two sections of the code
that are cited , if indeed a recreational vehicle is being used
as a residence , those two--the frontage and the square footage--
codes have to be met . If they are not ,, you have two options as
you guys are well aware . We either apply for a variance or you
simply cannot do it . It appears in 1987 ,E the Wilburs applied for
a variance . For whatever reason , the variance was not granted .
I am looking very quickly at the record here ,, and it appears to
me that back in 1987 ,, they acknowledged that they were using the
RV as a residence for at least four months of the year .
L . RAYMOND : Yes . I saw that too .
F . CASULLO, ESQ . : Now,, I don ' t know if that is still in existence . If that is '8tU1
true ,, yes , you are in violation . I think the only thing that
Mr . Wilbur may not be seeing here , and I am certainly not trying
to make this difficult for him . I think that just letting this
matter go on for six years is pretty clear that everyone is trying
to work an acceptable resolution . I think what Mr . Wilbur is
seeing here is a couple things . One , this Board cannot act until
a complaint was lodged by a residentIof this community . It is your
duty as a Board once you receive a complaint along with the CEO
J Town of Groton Zoning Board of Appeals , Tuesday , September 7 , 1993 , 7 : 30 p . m . Page 7
L . RAYMOND : I understand that . We are just asking what use it is being put
to` and you ' re saying that it is being used for camping ?
And not as a residence?
J . WILBUR : That ' s right . My residence is 396 Lick Street and there ' s a
house there and there ' s a garage and a barn .
M . DECKER : Can you tell me ,. Joe ,, how many or how much time ,, days of the year
when you ' re back in Groton ,, New York , at 396 , do you reside in
the house when you ' re at this locality?
J . WILBUR : That ain ' t their question .
M . DECKER, : That ' s my question to you .
J . WILBUR : I don ' t know . I don ' t keep tracks of records of it . Like I said ,.
I was on the road 275 - 300 days last year ,, which I can go get
a trucking logging book to show that .
M . DECKER : Out of those 300 and some odd days , you remained in the house
at that time the RV was with her .
J . WILBUR : I don ' t see the point here until they can prove the camping law
wrong and change the camping law to a mobile home law . That ' s
my question and has been my question for the past seven years .
As I brought up seven years ago ,, the people are doing the same
thing but only doing it six months out of the year , and I was
told to shut my mouth because . .
L • RAYMOND : Well ,, we aren ' t going to second guess the Town Board . Thev
are a different board than we are . All we have is what
is in the record .
F . CASULLO, ESQ . I am very confused right now . I may have it wrong . I am looking
at the Town of Groton Land Use & Development Code that was adopted
September 10 ,, 19900
L . RAYMOND : Yes , that ' s the new version . The previous version was adopted
in 1972 ,
J . WILBUR : You have to go back to 1983 . I have the 1983 one .
F . CASULLO,, ESQ . Can you tell me where the camping provision in this 1990 . .
L . RAYMOND : I don ' t know .
F . CASULLO,, ESQ . I think that ' s a start . .
J . WILBUR : I have the 1983 ,
* * *PUBLIC AND BOARD MEMBERS TOOK TIME OUT TO RESEARCH SECTION ON CAMPING .
L • RAYMOND : We are trying to find the definition for recreational camping .
He may be correct if there isn ' t one in here .
F . CASULLO,, ESQ . I found recreational cabins .
J . WILBUR : Oh yeah ,, you ' re going to find a lot of other things ,, but you ain ' t
gonna find no time limit or nothing
* * * PUBLIC AND BOARD MEMBERS CONTINUED RESEARCHING FOR A DEFINITION .
T✓wn of Groton Zoning Board of Appeals;. Tuesday ; September 7 ,, 1993 , 7 : 30 p . m . Page 9
i
J . PACdAI : If the items are part of ,, . permanently attached to it ,, you can find
a way to . .
L . RAYMOND : Yea .
J . PACHAI : By the same stretch of the imagination or the stretch of what can
or can ' t be done on the extreme , we could look at the camper
and stretch things and have that be something that it is obviously
not .
J . WILBUR : OK . Let ' s turn this around . They have tax assessed me for it ,,
and the tax assessor says it can ' t be tax assessed because it ' s
on wheels ,; it ' s moveable ,, and I license it .
L . RAYMOND : What the tax assessor decides is a whole separate question from
what w ' re doing . . Let ' s look at the definition of a mobile
home . CLy e read from page 2 -of the Mobile Home Ordinance
code book They cross over . They both apply in many respects .
J . WILBUR : If you ' re going to - cross-over things ,, why don ' t you put that
right in your Camping rules . See ,, that don ' t specify that
in the camping rules .
L . RAYMOND : Well the camping rules ,, sir ,, are not in the present code . I ' m
sorry .
D . OFNER : I have a question here .
L . RAYMOND : OK . I ' ll take one or two more questions from the Board because
I think everything that needs to be said has been said .
D . OFNER : When you leave here and you go to your lot ,, where do you go?
J . WILBUR : 396 Lick Street .
D . OFNER : I mean do you go to your camping vehicle ?
J . WILBUR : Well , it ' s out on the lot ,, camping now,, yes .
/ D . OFNER : You ' re camping now?
J . WILBUR : Yea ,, not on 396 Lick Street .
D . OFNER : You ' re camping on your property?
J . WILBUR * I didn ' t say I was on my property . I said I ' m camping and that ' s
all I said ,. and I ' m not on 396 Lick Street .
i
D . OFNER : You own two lots though , is that right ?
J . WILBUR : Well ,, you ' re answering your own question so you must know .
So ,, must be .
D . OFNER : So ,, you ' re on another lot then . ( ? )
J . WILBUR : I guess .
L • RAYMOND : What ' s the address for the other lot by the way?
J . WILBUR : That man knows where the other lot is .
•�Toem of Groton Zoning Board of Appeals ,, Tuesday ,, September 7 , 1993 ,, 7 : 30 p . m .
HIGHLIGHTS FROM BOARD DISCUSSION FOLLOWING HEARING
L . RAYMOND : We have ,, in a sense ,, two scenarios . We ' ve got the scenario
that is alleged by the �eomplainantmandz=�b�y. the Town Board five
years ago ,, and we have Mr . and Mrs . Wilbur ' s sketch of the
way they see it . Is that a fair summary of where we are at
here ?
Board members nodded in agreement .
L . RAYMOND : We are looking at evidence to support either one . Secondly ,.
how does that fit into the code requirements . The Wilburs are
using a variation of a code that precedes this one .
Board members reviewed previous documentation that was provided at hearing .
M . DECKER : Mentioned minutes of April 14, 1993 ,, where the attorney was
speaking on their behalf ( Town Board minutes ) . A construction
worker who is laid-off during winter and take camper with him
on job sites in summer .
J . PACHAI : That still does not document ,, to me ,, that they have been living
in it since May of 1987 . In ' 1987 ,, they were living there four
months of the year . They are claiming they are not living in it ,
and it should be proven that they have not or have been living
there .
D . OFNER : It was my impression at the first time I was exposed to this
that the permanent structure is being used primarily by the daughter
and the family of the daughter as . their home . At that time ,. there
is also a mobile home ,, which we understood was the abode of the
parents while they were not moving around . Is that the way you
understood at the time ,, Lyle ?
L . RAYMOND : Yes .
N . SMITH : To be a recreational vehicle that is licensed doesn ' t necessarily
mean " it has to go anywheres . = You coup =set it on your lot 305
days out of the year and doesn ' t have to go anywhere . Since it
is licensed ,, it is not a violation to have it sit there 365 days
out of the year .
L . RAYMOND : How do we define a dwelling unit Now we have definitions of
dwelling units in the code book . How o you Pefine camping out ?
We need to have them ( George Totman�a, �au� � defi
( g � ) define a lot of
this stuff a lot better than what is in here now . Because this
type of question is difficult to answer with the way the code
is written now .
L . RAYMOND : Brought up accountability issues az=.far a.. the Planning and
Town Boards should ;do- a-tease-bycae-_cror �roces update
this � code instead of the Zoning Board taking authority .
Also litigation concerns were expressed .
M . DECKER : Expressed liability concerns . Emergency vehicles responding
to ,, in this case ,, 396 Lick Street .
J . PACHAI : One thing we don ' t want to do for sure is set a preceden ,
and at the same time ,, we really do need to look at this case as
it stands by itself . Regardless of how we feel ,, we need some
} oF4Tu�:Tn of Groton Zoning Board of Appeals , Tuesday ,, September 7 , 1993 , 7 : 30 p . m . -BOARD DISCUSSION-3
L . RAYMOND : If they are camping there for more than one month ,, then it
becomes a permanent structure . The CEO can monitor it .
to - do= -that-wa-y?, Somebody want to make a motion ?
M . DECKER : Yes .
D . OFNER : We should address the issue of camping .
FINDINGS
That the plaintiff claims that the use of the vehicle is for camping . Section 137� ,
Residential Activities ; Section 131 . 1 of the Town of Groton Land Use & D velcpment
Code state tha t hq occupancy of housing accommodations on a permanent longer than
a one-mont bass household mkggs P` A ai��J6I � � e ' rw C4099q,97
L . RAYMOND : Based on the above finding ( s ) ,, we make a motion then
to . . . .
J . PACHAI : Wants to make a third finding that the recreational vehicle
is no longer at 396 Lick Street .
L . RAYMOND . OK . We have three findings . What ' s next . Do we want to make
a motion to dismiss based on conditions ?
D . OFNER : OK--with conditions .
L . RAYMOND : OK . What conditions ?
M . DECKER : Like what ? To monitor? It ' s no longer on the lot where we can prove . .
L . RAYMOND : Why not ? We are setting 6� criteri5 given the evidence .
M . DECKER : So , we are going to hand it back to the CEO who is going to
have to monitor it .
L . RAYMOND * We will give him the basis on which to monitor it according to
Section 131 . 1 .
J . PACHAI : Makes a motion to dismiss under the condition that the Wilburs
do not use the recreational vehicle at 396 Lick Street as
a permanenet housing accommodation as defined by Section 131 . 1 .
L . RAYMOND : Any discussion on the motion here ?
Board members did not direct any discussion .
OK . So the motion stands as John has stated .
M . DECKER : Seconds the motion.
VOTE : ALL IN FAVOR ; MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY
Meeting adjourned at 9 : 26 p . m .
Submitted by Penny Bogardus
sort of proof that they are living in it year-round as a permanent
residence .
Sewage operations were discussed with campers and/or RVs .
J . PACHAI : As I read this , I do not see it as a mobile home . In a way ,, I
think it should read as a mobile home ,, but it does not . ( He ' was
referring to page 2 of definitions of ' the Mobile Home Ordinance book . )
L . RAYMOND : Asked everyone to refer to Page 16 of the code book for classifying
use .
D . OFNER : It appears to me that these people are not camping and that it
is their home . Gave his view on camping .
L . RAYMOND : The evidence lies outside the code . ree-opter e -
` isms _grant,a_v. ___ cat d rt ens
- -
set u ri with what- we_havera .
T _ ' -
Discussion was also brought up about giving the responsibility of evidence to the CEO
and take it to Town court .
L . RAYMOND : OK . Lets make a finding that the code is deficient tar= r� � u�q
and that we make a recommendation in the finding that the Town
Board consider amending the code to resolve these questions about
recreational use . Given that ,, we will dismiss with a condition
pending future Town Board action .
D . OFNER : I can ' t see Town Board taking over the responsibility .
My reaction is that they are making it their home .
Discussion was brought up about removing the vehicle . They do have the right to move it_
around . How is it being used is the concern .
J . PACHAI : Asked to move for a 5 -minute recess .
D . OFNER : Expressed concern about moving the vehicle from the one lot
he owns to the next . See-saw .
L . RAYMOND : Granted a five-minute recess at 9 : 05 p . m .
Discussion was resumed at 9 : 12 p . m .
J . PACHAI : I think we should brainstorm our finding ( s ) and then from there
worry about resolving . It seems that we are trying to come up
with a final action . Lets look at the findings as they stand :
One of those being the Wilburs have been using this 5th wheel
as a shelter ,; excluding all definitions , where they are doing
it year-round on the tax parcel indicated . .
D . OFNER : I don ' t see anyone cnallengi�ng . the issuethat they are using
this as their primary dwelling .
L . RAYMOND * Refer to Page 17 ,i Section 131 . 1 . When does camping no longer
become camping ? Residential activities ? So why don ' t we dismiss
the complaint on the basis that the vehicle has been moved ,, but
if put back in place and the CEO finds it being used for longer
than a month ,, then it meets the requirement of the code and then
referred to Town court ?
L . RAYMOND : Mr . Wilbur ,, I think this answered the question . OK ,, unless someone ` +
else has any further questions ,, I think we should close the
hearing and move into our discussion about what we are going to
decide about this . The hearing is officially closed at 8 : 13 p . m .
I ,, PENNY L . BOGARDUS ,, DO CERTIFY that in the matter of a public hearing held by
the Zoning Board of Appeals for the Town of Groton ,t State of New York,, County of Tompkins ,.
for Alleged Violations by JOSEPH AND LINDA WILBUR of 396 Lick Street ,i Groton ,, New York,
of the Groton Land Use and Development Code ,, Section 352 . 1 . c and Section 342 . 1 . a ,, I did
transcribe the hearing from note dictation in addition o an audio tape and the foregoing
is a true and exact copy to the best of my ability .
r
Penny L . ardus
l�,
- - • • - - - - �. .y LV L4 nNNcalo , lucJUaYi, OL2PLelltOeL / , lyJ i , / : ,iU p . m . Pa 'e 8
J `
L . RAYMOND : I think it ' s time that we need to clarify this kind of stuff here . v
OK . I VIMMtt find only group outdoor recreation . This is the one
for 19900
J . WILBUR : The original one is 1983 ,
L . RAYMOND .* We realize that .
J . WILBUR : The point is ,, this is the one I used and now being penalized for it .
I ' ve been doing it since 1973 ,
L . RAYMOND : There is no listing for recreational camping under the current one .
Not at all .
J . WILBUR : According to everything that everybody else has said because I
was doing it in 1973 , I ' m a grandfather clause anyway . That ' s
what I tried to bring up to the Town Board six years ago and
they didn ' t even want to listen to it .
L . RAYMOND : Yes ,, I understand . The record shows it . ' According to the
record of the Town Board meetings ,, apparently they didn ' t
accept your claim that it was recreational camping . So
the real question is not whether 'it ' s a recreational vehicle
but what it was being used for ,, and you say,; to clarify for
the record . . . . .
J . WILBUR * When you can clarify to me that I am wrongly using it for
recreational camping ,, then you ' ve got me ,, but until you can
clarify that ,; I don ' t see where the Zoning Board or the Town
Board has any grounds to even be . . .
L . RAYMOND : We do have a definition of a dwelling unit here .
J . WILBUR : OK . Let me ask you something . How do you classify camping ?
L . RAYMOND : Well ,, we don ' t have to . We can do it the other way around
and classify a dwelling unit , and if it meets the requirements
of a dwelling unit ,, then it ' s not a camper .
J . WILBUR : Hey now . . . . no .
L . RAYMOND : Gave the definition of a dwelling unit : " A dwelling unit is
a structured design used for living quarters including provisions
for cooking and sleeping . " Does that have provisions for
cooking and sleeping in it ?
J . WILBUR : A tent does too .
L . RAYMOND : A dwelling unit has its own kitchen . Does it have its own
kitchen?
J . WILBUR : A tent has its own ktichen too .
L . RAYMOND : This is Section 116 . 03 . Does it have its own bathroom?
J . WILBUR : A tent can too . Hey ,. I ' m being honest about it . It meets all with
what you are trying to say,, but I : can put a 55- foot tent out there
and meet all those - specifications and still be camping .
L . RAYMOND : I think to clariiy_ner� at
-awl« -may --- - --- -
Board members had whether or not it ' s a camping trailer . Th 's not the issue . We all know it ' s a camping trailer . Our concern
is how it is being put to use . And that makes a difference .
J . WILBUR : That ' s what I ' m saying right here . Your zoning law reads there
is no time limit on camping .
Town of Groton Zoning Board of Appeals , Tuesday ,, September 7 ,, 1993 ; 7 ; 30 p : m . Page 4
of peas that you want to keep right on going .
L . RAYMOND * I think what David is asking is what structure are you living
in as a home .
J . WILBUR : I don ' t have to clarify that .
L . RAYMOND : You don ' t ?
J . WILBUR : No . I don ' t . Because my address clarifies that ,, and : the zoning
law that we ' re arguing about is not about clarifying whether I
live .in that home or I live in THAT 5th wheel or live in a tent
in the back area .
L . RAYMOND : Well ,, the code does . .
J . WILBUR : No ,, the code does not .
L . RAYMOND : No . The code does say that it can ' t be two structures on the
same property .
J . WILBUR : It ain ' t a structurel How do you classify construction then ?
L . RAYMOND : That ' s what we ' re trying to clarify,, sir .
J . WILBUR : OK . sir . You better start cleaning this whole Town up . Because
I can sit right here and give you 25 different places that are
in the same violation that I am in and they were mentioned before
in the Town Board meeting ,, and I was told to shut my mouth
because they worked out this deal .
D . OFNER : I don ' t think you gave me a clear answer ,, sir .
J . WILBUR : I don ' t intend to .
D . OFNER : Oh . Then you will not describe to me . .
J . WILBUR : It ' s a four-bedroom house .
D . OFNER : Yes ,, I know . I ' ve seen it from the road .
J . WILBUR : OK,, then why are you asking me for?
D . OFNER : Because sir ,, it appears from your description of your abode ,, that
your primary abode ,, is the recreational vehicle that you use not
only in your movements . I still don ' t understand what recreation
you do carry on at your lot and other places around the country .
J . WILBUR : You mean a person can ' t just go out and camp out ? He ' s gotta have
a permit to build a bon fire in his back door yard? You mean he ' s
gotta have the permission from this Town ,f this community , to say
he can go out and sleep in a tent in the back door yard? Or sleep
in his 5th wheel if he wants to sleep there 365 days in the year .
in the tent ? Is that what you ' re trying to say? ! Well . . o that ' s
what you have said !
D . OFNER : Sir . My impression from your presentation is that that vehicle
is the primary structure or object that you use as your home .
J . WILBUR : No , I have not stated that . I told you what my home was . I
to you what my address was ,I and that is what my home is . Now,,
you ' re turning it around and twisting it to what you want it to ' say .
gown or Croton zoning Board of Appeals , Tuesday , September 7 ,r 1993 , 7 : 30 p . m . Page '2
w
understand that you feel we are in violation of the
codes mentioned ,, Section 352 . 1 . c and Section 352 . 1.. a
and that a variance had not been granted for us to. reside
in the 5th wheel recreation. vehicle on our property . What
our lawyer did not cover at the time nor in any of the
documentation you have sent is the fact that we are using
a " recreational vehicle " on our property . As a recreational
vehicle , it complies with health concerns , fire concerns ,.
and recreational dwelling information as we preceded .
It is " not " a mobile home nor is it a residential structure .
Mrs . Douglas was correct in her assessment of our 5th wheel
being a recreational vehicle . We are sorry that the items
she disagrees with deems more to be the consideration of
eye sores than anything else . For that ,, we apologize and
will attempt . to clean up . With regard to the residence ,,
we realize that we cannot classify the recreational vehicle
as a residence . It is a vehicle . We license it . We move
it from place to place ,, and a residence does not move .
It would not be known to you necessarily that the 5th wheel
recreational vehicle that is on our property is " not " . The
vehicle originally in use at the time of the variance
determination . From what we read in regard to recreational
vehicle use , we are not in violation . We request that
you dismiss the complaint at this time ,, and you have our
permission to send a copy of our letter to Mrs . Douglas .
We accept your complaint and empthasize with her displeasure . "
That ' s the completion of our case in terms of documentation that
ve-of—rhe le-ttersxthat I received . The way we conduct the
hearings is after the statement of the case , who dust completed
in .reading the correcpondence ,r won than ask the r tha
r'
violator or whoever is before us to state their case and see if
anyone opposes ,, then the Board undertakes their case . With that ,
I assume you are Mr . and Mrs . Wilbur ? Yes . Do you have a
response to all of these letters and other correspondence?
L . WITBUR • ' Stated her case by reading from her notes ( Attachment D ) .
L . RAYMOND : May we obtain a copy of your letter for the record?
L . WIL•BUR : Nodded in agreement .
J . WILBUR • The question that nobody has answered in these hearings is :
How do you classify a mobile home over a camper trailer ? "
And when you can classify that then say that our camper trailer 0
is a mobile home and is violating New York State laws and
County Township laws ,, then I will very gladly agree with what
you ' re trying to say : Until then ,, I don ' t feel that we have
violated any New York State zoning law or any County zoning
law or any Town zoning law .
L . RAYMOND : We ar
e e not trying to say anything ,I sir , at this moment because
we are only here to hear the alleged violation . That ' s all .
J . WILBUR : That is what I am saying and that ' s what I ' ve said . You read
the previous document where the previous document required a
variance . It never verified that question . And that ' s the
question . Until the Zoning Board or this hearing board can
prove me wrong from what is in these zoning books ,, . I do not see
why we are even here for this discussion .