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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1972-04-12 GROTON TOWN PLANNING BOARD MEETING Held in the Town Hall Wednesday , April 12 , 1972 8 * 10 P . M. - 10 : 10 P . M. G . Totman - Chairman* Be Bucko - Town Attorney* R . Cotanch* A . Clark - Ithaca Journal* Z . Kane* H . Dow - Town Supervisor* D . Payne* J . Dougherty - Engineer* F . Scheffler* J . Calhoun on USDA Soil Conservation Service* E . McLaughlin J . Bell* R . Gleason* * -Denotes those present . G . Totman : What I ' m going to do tonight is just pass out the minutes and will give you some time to condense them . Tonight we have Mr . Daugherty back with us and Jim Calhoun with us from the Tompkins County Soil Conservation Department and I think the best way to handle this meeting tonight will be to listen to Mr . Calhoun and Mr . Daugherty . Am surprised to see Mr . Daugherty back but glad to have him and if you have anything further to say we ' ll be glad to hear from you . J . Daugherty : Just a couple of points , - - I ' ve made two minor changes on the detail map you had last week . One I increased the size of the turn- around and the other have angled the roadway to eliminate the jog , and , of course , in the final sheet of plans have a detailed map of the section which is on the lower part which we didn ' t have at the last meeting and there are no major changes at all from what were shown on the prelimin- ary plan . That ' s it . G . Totman : Thank you . What I would like to do is go through Mr . Calhoun ' s report and any further discussion we have or questions for Mr . Daugherty and , then , any business pertaining to ourselves we can have afterwards and this will give them a quicker start back to Ithaca . L 6 c I asked Mr . Crandall if he would assist us in going over this land as to the water drx4Lnage , the feasibility of sewers and so on . We were concerned at our last meeting with what would happen if we put roadways in with ditches and where the water would go and how it would affect adjacent properties especially down here from that point and felt we needed outside help so I called Mr . Crandall and asked if he could help us . He was very cooperative and he asked for a map and Ron Cotanch sent his down and they came up yesterday and Mr . Crandall , Mr . Calhoun and Ron went up and they went over this land pretty thoroughly so U& ask*& them to make a written report and they called me today and asked if it would be of help if Mr . Calhoun would come up and explain the report to us . I thought this was very nice of them as this is our first one and the ground is a little bit unusual in nature and quite a few areas that are quite wet so Jim if you want to - - - 1 - J . Daugherty : I think you really ought to make this a standard procredure on any large area or subdivision like this because it is an excellent idea . J . Calhoun : We are willing to help anyone when we can . As George said we walked over it . The first thing I did was to look at the soil map and try to come up with some data on soils . Do you want me to get into the soil descriptions a lot or what ? G . Totman : Probably , - -why don ' t you give a description of what you found . J . Calhoun : In my written report there ' s a brief description of the types of soil in front and further along in it explanations of Soil Ratings and limitations . Most any limitation can be overcome but it takes more money and more expense and a little more care in planning . The same principles apply in urban development . (A copy of Mr . Calhoun ' s report is attached hereto and made a (part of these Minutes . ) J . Calhoun : We walked over the site and I added a couple of physical conditions of importance in here . When the land was rented by Carl Haynes 3 , 500 ft . of tile drain was installed to drain a wet pocket and this runs through lots A , B , C and H . Here ' s a conservation plan map showing how that tile runs . Essentially what it does , - - it would come up and cut across in B (not quite to G) so this is draining out and I think it was B went in this area - Lyle said when they put the tile in there was a 1 / 2 acre swamp and this drained that out so this the can quite change the appearance of an area and if construction went in not realizing the tile was there that swamp would reappear . Another factor is drainage of surrounding property and as this property is located on a hilltop it goes in different directions rather than have any one drainage course . The property ranges from the road raised up this way and then it starts tipping down . The one thing is you don ' t have 200 or 300 acres draining down the same way . If you have any questions as I go along , just ask them . B . Bucko : Are there any easements where the drainage stops ? J. Calhoun : No , so it ' s draining off A , B and H into the next property . B . Bucko : Will there be easements in these , as to the drainage tile ? J . Calhoun : There never is . B . Bucko : The owner of B is going to have to have knowledge of that drainage tile or has to consent to it . In other words can ' t have a drain tile going through somebody ' s land - - he might be building right through it . J . Daugherty : It will have to be re - routed . B . Bucko : Now the drain tile goes in the ditch on Sovocool Hill Road , - - does it run down into the Village of Groton ? J . Daugherty : No , it goes the other way . 2 - R . Cotanch : Toward ' s Pleasant Valley . B . Bucko : The reasnn I raise that question , - - I don ' t know where the property is located so if any drainage comes into the Village of Groton I want to make sure there are sufficient storm sewers into Groton . More , discussion was held on the drainage problem by J . Daugherty , B . Bucko , R . Cotanch , J . Calhoun and others . J . Calhoun : I would suggest that it might be a good investment for you to pick up a set of contour maps of Groton which would show you this . B . Bucko : This is just for the developer and the Planning Board to be cognizant of . Where does the drainage ditch go to be sure there is sufficient drainage because I can see problems there . J . Calhoun : With this area the drainage goes in many directions more than in any one concentrated channel . Here are some recommendations we have made : "With the large number of lots , it is recommended that development be constructed in sections , if possible and streets and all drainage facilities be installed before home construction . All disturbed areas should be seeded to a temporary cover , such as ryegrass , immediately following rough grading . The southern half of Lot D receives drainage from the hill to the north resulting in wet conditions around and behind existing buildings . Water control measures should be considered if any development is planned in the southern portion of this lot ( example - diversion ditches ) . " R . Cotanch : That lies up towards the top - soil conditions would probably be al - right up there but the lower part where D is it ' s all fairly wet right now . J . Calhoun : That ' s the point I ' m making next , - - "Almost every one of the proposed lots has areas of higher elevations and low elevations , which receive some runoff from the higher areas . Unless extensive grading is planned , restrictive development to the higher elevations will reduce any drainage problems . Extensive grading and /or water control measure in- stallation are other alternatives . " "Lot J . and the northern parts of Lots G , F , and K receive substantial runoff from the surrounding lots which would impose severe limitations on development . An alternative on lot J would be to devote it to open space . This site might make a good dugout pond site , with the fill dug out from the pond used to raise the elevations around the pond for a park or natural area for the development . " "0 and P are quite steep and if denuded of vegetation could be subject to some serious erosion . Jack , could the steep grades bring traffic problems in winter ? J . Daugherty : No more than other roads around the county . I don ' t recall a road area - - I will qualify that , - - there is one place where we would have what I would consider a road grad that was steeper than is accepted practice for this type of area and that is down there - - coming off - 3 - from Sincerbeaux Road in the lower area as you go to the west - - very little alternative as it ' s the only way you can get into the place but it isn ' t all that bad . R . Cotanch : You ' re talking about the roads that the developers are proposing , now? J . Daugherty : Yes . R . Cotanch : Suppose an individual bought Lot P and built a house over on the side , that would be his problem , getting his car out of there . Some further discussion was held on this by R . Cotanch , F . Scheffler and others . J . Daugherty : All we have done with the road layout is provide access to Lot P . R . Cotanch : 0 . K. J . Calhoun : One other point - - will increase amount of water run -off . Sometimes you take an area at the tail end of a pasture and turn it into urban development and the run- off can increase up to 10 times as much . It is recommended that a check be made to ensure that existing road ditches and culvert under the town road can adequately handle this increased runoff for a 10 or 15 year frequency storm , or if rebuilding is needed . We can help a little on this but imagine Mr . Daugherty ' s own engineers can check this . A . Clark : How many inches of rain ? J . Calhoun : I think it ' s 2 . 5 for Tompkins County . A . Clark : For what time period ? J . Calhoun : 24 hours . G . Totman : If you had known the amount of tile up there would it have made a difference from the way you laid out the land ? J . Daugherty : From the way it is sketched out there , - -no , I don ' t think so . J . Calhoun : I added two more points at the end of my report . "Many of the soils are mapped as heavy textured and if basements are installed , soil surface water management should be considered . Tile drain around . . . . . . . . . . .might be one use . If this method is employed , road ditches might be built deep enough to provide suitable outlets . Tlw type of outlet used on SCS agrictural drainage is recommended . " "According to the soil mapping , subsurface drainage and /or seepage may be a problem on certain sections of the proposed road . " I would be glad to assist the town , the applicant , or his consultant with the development of a detailed erosion control or seeding plan . We can also provide design consultation on surface water drainage . We are not here to complete with private engineering but are here to work with them . B . Bucko : Would you comments be the same if on A there were 5 lots and on B 5 lots and on the lots all the way through ? - 4 - J Calhoun : This is kind of hard to answer . I ' m no expert on urban development . The more area where you are putting in pavement the more runoff you are going to get . B . Bucko : I ' m talking about development on laws and so forth . Are your continents applicable in the same manner if out of these 10 acre lots there were five - 2 acre lots on each of those areas , would your continents be the same ? J. Calhoun : I think they would be fairly similar . F . Scheffler : Would this apply to septic or sewer systems , - - is there room eough to take care of it ? J . Calhoun : That is the Health Department ' s kitten . J . Daugherty : May I add a couple of comments . If I , for example , were to purchase one of these 10 acre lots and come in to you wanting to subdivide that 10 acres into five additional lots . You would need a heck of a lot more detailed information , - - a complete topography survey to begin with - - a lot more information than you would need for a 10 acre lot subdivision . B . Bucko : That is very true but I ' ll go one step farther - by approving A , Bl� C and D if somebody buys them , we can ' t tell anybody what to do . J . Daugherty : This is a very important point on this . This has been approved by the County Health Department as single dwelling large lots , - period . This is where part of the protection starts coming into this . Anybody wants to do anything different to any one of these lots they have to go through the whole procedure again , - -health department , planning board and everything else . More discussion was held on this by J . Calhoun , B . Bucko and others . R . Gleason : In putting in these roads - - the roads that are proposed - - are the ditches you are including ditches - - or is there some question about the Town doing this work ? J . Daugherty : As I understand it , according to the Town ' s Rules the subdivider is responsible for the entire road which includes drainage . R . Gleason : In putting in these roads would you be figuring to put these ditches deep enough to take care of drainage ? And in building these roads would they be built to take care of any cellar drains ? J . Daugherty : No , you can ' t make roadside ditches that deep . R . Gleason : How would you propose they would do this , then? J . Calhoun : The first question that comes to my mind - are we talking with base - ments or without basements ? J . Daugherty : You have 10 acres , - you ' re going to be building your house up on a higher part of it I assume . You are going to have plenty of room to put in some sort of dry well area to take care of easement or footage drains . - 5 - G . Totman : One of the things we have to bear in mind . Mr . Daugherty ' s concern is mainly in selling land in 10 acre lots - not even contemplating any building on those lots . When I first thought of this project it was as a subdivision with a whole bunch of houses going up . When we approve this , in our general statement , as I see it , we are going to have to make an approval and take lot by lot and note any reservations we have and so state them but then the person that buys one of these parcels of land then has to get approval for what he wants to do on that so bear this in mind . Thinking about Section J right now . This is a first observation in approving this proposal , - - I would have to say that I would recommend now this is a first observation type of thing , - - that J at the present time , without anything else being down to it , is not suitable for any - thing but may be with proper drainage done prior to anything someone wanted to do with it , - - it could be made suitable for putting a house on it but think we should look at it that way . R . Gleason : This is what I ' m getting at . How can we say , well - - are we going to say O . K. practically all of this can never be more than one family on each 10 acres ? J . Calhoun : This existing the line here could be a tap for some areas . B . Bucko : The drain tile should show on the map . J . Daugherty : I would be glad to locate it on the map if somebody can show it to me in the field . B . Bucko : I take one exception , - - as a Planning Board you do not approve the lots for sale . You only approve them as development not as for sale . J . Calhoun : The only other suggestion I have is if you were worried about basement drainage or something might have an easement or something to put tile in as needed . I don ' t know. B . Bucko : You can ' t do that without the topography of the area . More discussion was held on this by J . Daugherty , J . Calhoun , B . Bucko and others . R . Cotanch : Mr . Daugherty , what about the subdividers ' restrictions that you will impose on the land itself ? J . Daugherty : I can ' t answer that . Mr . Hamilton would have to answer that . I ' m not familiar with his ideas on it . R Cotanch : My thought is , - - there ' s nothing to restrict them putting a trailer on Lot A , B , or D . I think some good , healthy restrictions should be on it . G . Totman : Has anybody any more questions to ask Mr . Calhoun ? F . Scheffler : You didn ' t say anything about that lower part . J . Calhoun : We didn ' t have the plans on that but if you like I ' d be glad to take a look at it . R . Gleason : The survey map indicates it ' s worse . - 6 - J . Calhoun : There are some pretty rugged sites in there . We can still take a walk around and take a look at it . R . Cotanch : It wasn ' t as bad as it looked to begin with . Z . Kane : Which one ? R . Cotanch : The one on the northern part . G . Totman : The top section . Z . Kane : You ' re seeing it at the right time of year and anybody coming in to buy there should see it now . More discussion was held on the drainage by J . Daugherty , R . Cotanch and others . R . Cotanch : Hicks , I have a question for you now that you ' re here . We were discussing the building of roads and ditches and that it ' s the subdivider ' s responsibility to put in the roadways . Seems like I have seen a letter bandied around with your signature on it pertaining to roads . H . Dow : Specifications . R . Cotanch : Just specifications ? Nothing about the actual construction of any road ditches by the Town ? H . Dow : It says that we want to put in the ditches ourselves . Be Bucko : Whp pays for the ditches ? H . Dow : In taking care of the ditches and seeing culverts are alright it accrues to our advantage so we reserve the right to put the ditches in ourselves . Be Bucko : Are you talking about ditches all the way up or what ? H . Dow : Let me read this to you . (Reads letter aloud . ) Be Bucko : The ditches are the responsibility of the builder but where they are supposed to go , - - H . Dow : "Adequate ditches shall be provided by builder . The minimum ditch grade shall be 0 . 5% . Town will run ditches . " In other words we will see that the ditches meet that 0 . 5% we want for drainage . Be Bucko : You ' re not saying you ' re paying for it ? H . Dow : No . J . Daugherty : This is a standard specification . The builder will furnish culverts and install head walls if needed or requested by the Highway Super - intendent . All culvert sizes and lengths shall be determined by Highway Superintendent before installation . R . Cotanch : O . K. J . Daugherty : You will notice one of the notes I have on each of the plans that all roads will conform with the Town of Groton Road Specifications , J . Calhoun : Is there anything more I can add ? G . Totman : Thank you , Mr . Calhoun . I think you have done a very thorough job and we surely appreciate it . Mr . Daugherty asked Mr . Bucko if farm ponds had to be fenced and Mr . Bucko said they did not . Mr . Calhoun asked him how the kind of say 30 acres with a pond in for wildlife would be classed . Mr . Bucko said the fencing is only required for swimming pools . That is what is in the ordinance . G . Totman : Say the person isn ' t a farmer and you put in a pond for him , - -he might put in a diving board - - if so is it then considered a swimming pool ? Some discussion, was held on this by H . Dow , B . Bucko , J . Calhoun , G . Totman and others as to the responsibility of anyone that does that and also that if any problems came up the ordinance would have to be changed . J . Calhoun : This map shows where the tile is on the subdivision but unfortunately it ' s the only copy I have and would like to hold on to it but anybody can borrow it if it ' s needed . J . Daugherty : Do you know anyone that can give me the exact location of those lines ? J . Calhoun : Yes , we can get you the lines from there . (Mr . Bucko took the map and made copies of it for the Planning Board ) , G . Totman : The purpose of our meeting tonight is to collect all the information we can and ask all the questions we can and we have the right people here to pull these answers from so now is the time to do it because after tonight will probably hold a public hearing and have to make a decision so I strongly suggest if you have any questions for the Town Supervisor or Mr . Calhoun or Mr . Daugherty now is the time to ask them . D . Payne : Mr . Calhoun , do you feel that the roadway - - just across the end of J - - is a good place for it ? J . Calhoun : I ' m not a road builder . The only thing I can say is the higher up you get the less drainage problems you will have . F . Scheffler : That ' s right at the edge of the swamp . J . Daugherty : The low point is right across here . J . Calhoun : You would have to build it up . F . Scheffler : You have all the drainage from this point towards this road from clear up here . J . Calhoun : This is one of those sections I mentioned that you are going to have to look at very closely regarding drainage . 8 - J . Daugherty : It ' s better for the drainage to have this road run across east -west there . J . Calhoun : I and K are even more critical than J . D . Payne : As I remember there ' s a pretty good pond here and a small creek runs across and drains into it . G . Totman : Is that in I ? D . Payne : I would say it starts from the road and goes into I . J . Daugherty : If you will look at the pond close you will _ find most of it is formed by debris catching on the rear fence . I ' m saying if you cleaned it out you wouldn ' t have a pond but it wouldn ' t be as bad as it is . More discussion was held on this by D . Payne , P . Scheffler , J . Daugherty and others . J . Calhoun : I think maybe Leland Cornelius would be more versed in giving you details on this road bit . Z . Kane : It all sounds so expensive if you have to provide extra drainage for everything . Seems like it would be out of sight for anybody . More discussion was held on this by R . Cotanch , Z . Kane , J . Calhoun and others . G . Totman : If you could stand up there - right in the middle of J and look due north you could have a beautiful home in there on "L" . S . rune : I ' m not saying there aren ' t nice places . G . Titman : Mr . Calhoun , I think we should have you do the same type of report on this section here - - south of Sovocool Hill Road . You did such a good job on this first report and it would be very advantage - ous to us and we could use the information later on for future buyers . J . Calhoun : I would like a copy of the plat when I do this . We have loose sheets of soil maps with no overlay and with overlay and I can put together what is needed and give you an aerophoto base map of the Town of Groton . These soil maps are made by one man who is trained in soils . D . Payne : What would be a definition of severe limitations ? J . Calhoun : Limitations are severe enough to make use questionable but probably can be overcome . It just would be costly to do it . D . Payne : 0 . K. G . Totman : When could you give us another report ? J . Calhoun : Probably by the end of next week . - 9 - I G . Totman : What I would do , then , would be run off some copies so we could all go over it . (Mr . Daugherty assured Mr . Calhoun that he would get him a copy of the subdivision plat maps he o7111 need to do this report . ) G . Totman : Are there any other questions anybody would like to ask either of these two gentlemen? If not , why there ' s not much object in keeping them here . B . Bucko : Mr . Daugherty , is there any reason for the scaling . .of these roads ? J . Daugherty : You mean instead of having a small radius ? These right -of - ways are wider than your standards . B . Bucko : I was wondering for fire trucks going up and if there will be a radius on the pavement itself . More discussion was held on this by B . Bucko , J . Daugherty and others . (Mr . Daugherty and Mr . Calhoun left the meeting at 9 : 15 P . M . ) G . Totman : Here we are , folks . What I ' ll dq , - - this is quite a detailed study that he made . I think he did a very excellent job . I ' ll get each one of our members and Ben and Hicks a copy of what he has here if it will be any help to you and will try to get it to each one of you within the next week so you can see what is in the thing . R . Cotanch : I was in Ben ' s office this afternoon and had a discussion on the utility lines so would like to jabber about that for a little bit . Ben looked through it and called the Electric & Gas and got an opinion from Mr . Winters down there . Their thought , as I get it , pretty basically is that they are not going to build any power lines until they see a house started and have a specific request for power . B . Bucko : I talked to Mr . Winters this afternoon because when Ron came in and asked what the regulations were I found out this is what they call Phase I of the Public Service Commission and Mr . Winters related to me that unless there is a customer requesting the service to his house under construction that no transmission lines or distribution lines will be constructed by New York State Gas & Electric Corp . The rason for this is that under Phase I of the regulations for the Public Service Commission the Public Service Commission gave the utilities 6 months in order to clear up any orders they may have on their books for over - head transmission lines and that when Phase I went in , which was December 28 , they had 6 months to clear up any projects that they had under construction or would be under construction by a sub - divider and this means an actual construction or a home by the 28th June , D . Payrie : When was the effective date of this ? - 10 - B . Bucko : The effective date was December 28th . More discussion was held on this by B . Bucko , D . Payne , Z . Kanne , R . Cotanch , G . Totman and others . G . Totman : Did you get the impression that the urgency for the approval of this development , as Mr . Daugherty stated last week , for getting this approved before the 28th so they could come under this , - - did you get the impression from him it wouldn ' t be advantageous to them at all , as far as power lines are concerned , because as long as no request before the 28th , law will prevail ? B . Bucko : That was my impression and I asked that question , - -whether or not if a developer has development of 10 lots under considera- tion , would he come in within the 6 -month period if he started construction and the answer was there had to be a request for a housing or house for an individual customer for that particular lot under construction . More discussion was held on this subject by G . Totman , F . Scheffler , Z . Kane , B . Bucko , R . Gleason , A . Clark , H . Dow and others . G . Totman : There are a couple of things now , Ben , - - our next step as I understand this is to hold a public hearing . My question is can you make it on Tuesday the 25th of April - that seems to be the only night that their attorney , Mr . Hamilton , can make it . B . Bucko : I can make it the 25th but don ' t the regulations provide for 10 days ' notice before the hearing ? G . Totman : I think it ' s 5 days . B . Bucko : Is it 5 ? I don ' t have a copy with me . B . Totman : While Ben is looking the time limit up , I think it might be of interest to the rest of you , - - if you remember we discussed sending the New York State Department of Transportation a letter re . Route 13 and I sent it out , with Zana ' s help , and have made a copy of their reply for each of you . (Mr . Totman handed out copies to all present ) , B . Bucko : Yes , - - it is 5 days but you can ' t include the date of publica - tion . G . Totman : Doesn ' t the rural news come out on Wednesday ? A . Clark : Yes , it comes out on the 19th . It ' s available on the newsstands on the 19th . H . Dow : Ben , will you take care of that . B . Bucko : I ' ll be glad to . G . Totman : The purpose of this public hearing is solely for the purpose , as I understand it , to give the adjoining property owners a 11 - chance to be heard . We are not telling them we are approving or disapproving it at that hearing but just explaining things and would like to have their comments and will take them into consideration when making our decision . Each adjoining property owner has to have a written notice telling them of what we are going to do and Zana will write them letters on Town Planning Board letterhead . Z . Kane : When should they have their letter? G . Totman : I ' ll get it to you this week- end . G . Totman : At the beginning of the meeting I passed out minutes of the previous meeting and because we had visitors put off having them approved until now . So why don ' t you all look them over so we can have them approved . R . Gleason : I move the minutes be approved as presented . Z . Kane : I second the motion . (The motion was carried . ) G . Totman : Getting back to this public hearing , - - is the hour of 7 : 30 O . K. with everybody . F . Scheffler : It ought to be 8 : 00 P . M. G . Totman : O . K. We will set it for 8 : 00 P . M . Now , Ben , is there anything else we should make way for in this ? B . Bucko : No . I ' ll see that the notice is in next week . G . Totman : And you will be hear to answer any legal questions ? H . Dow : You are having Dougherty and Hamilton here that night ? B . Bucko : They should be here . R . Gleason : Shouldn ' t we have talked to Mr . Hamilton at some point17 . H . Dow : That will be the night . G . Totman : The night of that hearinggwould like to have two or three of you people get here early and help me set up the chairs . I ' m going to ask that each of our Planning Board members sit at the front of the room with Ben , Hicks and myself so people can see who you are and will explain to them what we are doing , why they are here and ask them for questions . Maybe we ought to get together with Ben and decide how we want to explain a little bit of the subdivision to them but as far as the people who are coming are concerned they will be interested in how this will affect them . R . Cotanch : Wouldn ' t it seem logical for the questions to be directed to Mr . Hamilton ? Some discussion was held and it was decided that Mr . Hamilton should present this that night and Mr . Tot - man is to phone and explain this to him . - 12 - G . Totman : I would like to discuss what we are going to do next Wednesday night , the 19th . At the last meeting I asked Frank to bring us a list of the farmers of the Town of Groton . We are planning on having a symposium concerning agricultural districts . Mr . Glenn Kline from the Tompkins County Coopera - tive Extension will be here to discuss the pros and cons of agric - ultural districts , - -what farmers have to do to get involved in them , the regulations and so forth . We , as a Planning Board , are simply making this information available to the farmers . What we do want to make sure of is as long as we are doing this would like all of the farmers to know what is happening . So , Frank has a list of all of the farmers in the Town of Groton and we decided that we ' d split this list up and contact those farmers . I will send a write-up in to the radio stations on the meeting . F . Scheffler : I suggest you put this notice on a postcard and send it out as there are four pages of farmers . H . Dow : I have always thought that Jack Deal and Charlie Chatfield do a bang -up job of advertising meetings and know that lots of farmers tune in at 7 o ' clock . Actually I think that would be as good a medium as you could find and would save about $ 20 . in postage . G . Totman : I have asked Art Clark to put it in the Ithaca Journal and I will send a write -up to both the radio stations in Cortland and Ithaca and also everybody should try to contact all the farmers they can . Z . Kane : If there are only 60 and only 10 apiece we could try each phoning 10 and if you get them fine , if not forget it . Be Bucko : Getting back to the proposed subdivision . The Planning Board is going to be considering this development and are going to have to make decisions about grades of lot and storm sewers and drainage and so forth and my personal observation is the Planning Board doesn ' t have a member with engineering background and to assure that the plans submitted are going to meet all require - ments , as far as drainage , lot problems , and so forth , the Planning Board ought to request the Town Board to retain the services of a Town Engineer , - -an engineer that can help the Planning Board in doing this and I say this very seriously because I am in favor of development in this Town if all the conditions are met on this project but , from past experience of being Village Attorney in different villages , ran into problems didn ' t think about in re - gard to sewerage . Don ' t sell the water problems that may come up short . Things that you may not even think about an engineer would and you may end up costing the Town money because it was not taken care of by an engineer ' s viewpoint . I just want to put a red light on water problems in this area . H . Dow : In Marcellus , did you hire an engineer ? Be Bucko : Yes . You pay him for the work done . - 13 - H . Dow : Do you have any idea how this engineer worked , - - on an hourly basis or what ? Be Bucko : 0n an hourly basis as he did the work . H . Dow : I don ' t like to spend money but I do think you ' re right . I think this being our first venture better learn as we go and do this safely and perhaps the Town Engineer will make our obligation in future years a whole lot cheaper for use I have some things I would like to be sure of here . Going to the 19th - next Wednesday - you are advertising to all the farmers a meeting on agricultural districts , - - right ? G . Totman : Right . H . Dow : Now , the very next night , Thursday , have the liberty to invite you all up to Verl Rankin ' s house , if you are interested in wills , preparing them and so forth . The meeting is at 8 P . M. Now to Tuesday night , the 25th , this same Planning Board is holding a public hearing at 8 P . M. , right ? G . Totman : Right . H . Dow : Now the next night , Wednesday , there ' s a 701 meeting ? R . Cotanch : Right , right here . H . Dow : Now then , on the 1st of May , Ben , the Town Board meets at 7 * 30 1;M . There will be public hearings that night on junkyards , the 30 day clause , right and also on mobile homes 30 ft . clause ? Be Bucko : Right . H . Dow : And at that meeting will find time to discuss hiring a Town Engineer for this project . Be Bucko : The 24th by the way is negotiation sessions with the Town employees . H . Dow : Right . G . Totman : Is that all you have , Hicks ? H . Dow : Yes , B". Bucko : Let me caution you on one thing for that hearing next week . The questions should be asked of the developers not the Planning Board . G . Totman : After they have left the people will know the Planning Board is the one that has to make the decision and we should be able to talk intelligently to them and if we keep saying we - 14 - r don ' t know the answers they are going to have a bad feeling towards the planning board . B . Bucko : Don ' t commit yourselves on any specifics on this plan because you don ' t know . The meeting adjourned at 10 * 10 P . M , Respectfully submitted , 94OLC Jo ephine Bell = 15 -