HomeMy WebLinkAbout1972-03-15 a
GROTON TOWN PLANNING BOARD MEETING
Held in the Groton Town Hall
Wednesday , March 15 , 1972
8 : 00 P . M. - 9 : 30 P . M .
G . Totman , Chairman* F . Scheffler* D . Payne* Z . Kane* R . Cotanch*
R . Gleason* E . McLaughlin
Zoning Board of Appeals Members :
J . Wargo , Chairman* Laura Volpicelli* George Lawrence* Gordon Hoy* R . Bell
* - Denotes those present
G . Totman : I think we ought to get started . Now you were all at our
last meeting and received a copy of the minutes .
Z . Kane : Not me .
G . Totman : So you didn ' t get a copy of the minutes of our last meeting .
Here they are . We were going to hold one the 1st of March
but a little after 8 P . M . only a couple of members were here
and , not knowing if anyone else was coming or not , I sent
our secretary home early so didn ' t take any minutes that
night so we decided to spend the time going over the sub -
division regulations for our own benefit , as well as for
Don ' s as he is a new member , - - however , to get our meeting
off to a start this evening , we should go through and approve
the minutes of our last meeting . I ' ll entertain a motion to
approve the minutes .
F . Scheffler : I so move .
D . Payne : I second the motion .
The motion was carried that the minutes be accepted
as written .
G . Totman : The real purpose of this meeting tonight is to ( 1 ) get
acquainted with the members of the Zoning Board of Appeals
and , probably , this is their first get - together if I ' m not
mistaken , and I think we should dispense with the formalities
of our regular meeting and just spend the time this evening
bringing the Zoning Board of Appeals up to date on what we
have been doing and entertaining questions from them and , also ,
lay the groundwork for some future meetings together , after they
have read some of the literature I plan to pass out tonight .
It ' s a little bit difficult to know where to start . Your board
will be the judgment board . We have been spending about three
years coming to this zoning ordinance and we have had meetings
and agreed and disagreed on some things but finally came up with
a decision but it will be your job to pass judgment on what we
have drawn up so now it ' s a whole new ball game for you .
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G . Totman : I have a lot of information here on paper that Hicks has for the
Board of Appeals but only left one copy of each and because ,
honest , I ' m not sure whether he wanted it passed out or not so
what L think I ' ll do is give a lot of this to Mr . Wargo who can
give it back to Hicks or pass it around .
The Town Board appointed Joe as chairman of the Board . The
Planning Board elects their own chairman but the Zoning Board
of Appeals chairman is appointed by the Town Board .
I am going to pass out to you tonight copies of the zoning
ordinance and what information I have available and a copy of
our General Plan for the Town and I think the rest of it we
will go over briefly to show you the ordinance the way we have
seen it . We have spent many , many months on this so it would be
very easy for me to assume people know something they don ' t in
talking about the zoning ordinance so I think I ' ll give you
copies of this and discuss briefly what our intentions are and why
we came up with the zoning ordinance and , then , I would like to
throw this meeting open for questions back and forth and we
should be thinking before we leave how you would like to carry
on from here , - - whether you would like to meet with our
whole board or have your meeting and get organized amongst
yourselves and have some representatives from this board meet
with you a few times so you can nit - pick us as to what the
reason is behind the things in the ordinance , and this sort of
thing .
The way I see it the Zoning Board of Appeals has to make a de -
cision with the intent of the zoning ordinance in the back of
their minds , - - what was the intention of this , why was it put
there , - - and if they deviate too much from it this will kill
the meaning of having a zoning ordinance . Zoning , itself , is as
good as the way it is enforced . It ' s kind of hard to sit down
at one meeting and discuss it too much without your having read
it and read the general plan we have drawn up .
(Mr . Totman passed out copies of the zoning ordinance and
the general plan for the Town to all members of the Zon -
ing Board of Appeals . )
G . Totman : This general plan for the Town of Groton that has been developed
will be very helpful to you but don ' t try to memorize it , you
will have to use it as a reference book .
Ron , did you have anything to offer at this point ? Ron Cotanch
was the chairman of the 701 Committee , which was responsible
for drawing up the zoning ordinance .
R . Cotanch : It depends on who we ' re talking to whether I ' ll take the
responsibility or not but tonight I guess I can . I don ' t envy
the Zoning Board of Appeals job but hope it will be several
months before you have to take any action but think if you will
look at where each of you live you will find you are strategically
placed around the Town and will be knowledgeable of any kind of
request that comes in .
You also must be cognizant of the fact that you have a neighbor
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or a friend or someone who comes in which makes your job even
tougher . The zoning map is as it is here and at the conference
we went to not long ago in New York City it was brought up that
variances if the zoning ordinance did not allow a building to
stand in a certain area and someone came and asked for a variance
it is only granted if there is hardship to the land , - - for in-
stance if he ' s going bankrupt , -his wife is pregnant , - and they ' re
on welfare , - - that ' s too bad because if it is not a necessity
of topography or something is happening to the land , it can ' t be
granted legally and legal aspects are substantial , as you well
know from reading the papers every day , so the process you set
up has to be set up under certain formalities to fit legal re -
quirements . I think when you get through tonight , you will be
- worse off than when you came in because you will have a little
knowledge , which is sometimes worse than none .
We have been working on this for over two years and every time I
go to a conference and hear people speak I feel I know practically
nothing about what they are talking about . I think ours is a
fairly lenient ordinance , at this point , and there wouldn ' t be
too much cause for variances right away .
Z . Kane : Do the Zoning Board of Appeals know what the colors on the map
mean or not ?
G . Totman : Not yet . They have never seen it .
(Mr . Totman then explained the map is the same as on the
back page of the zoning ordinance itself and that it is
coded though not colored . He explained what the differ -
ent colors meant , and what land uses were allowed . )
R . Cotanch : The ordinance should be almost completely updated every five
years or so . Supposing Groton developed over the next few
years , as it might because we have two fairly large subdivisions
past the talking stage now which might foster other developments
and we might want to change some areas , and the same could happen
in the industrial zoning area . Suppose Irma Lyons continues
building right on up the hill , we might want to change it around
and make way for this , but the Town Board and the Town Planning
Board would have to do this , not the Zoning Board of Appeals .
G . Totman : This is one area that I hope our two boards , after functioning
awhile , can have a close relationship because I ' m sure after
six months or a year , there will be many fallacies seen in the
zoning ordinance and I feel it is the responsibility of the
Planning Board to be involved in studying recommended changes .
The Town Board is the only one that can really change it , but
the Planning Board should be very much involved in looking
through the ordinance from time to time and updating it and
listening to the problems that your Board has as there will be
some areas that some requirement might not be compatible with
the rest of the Town and we won ' t find this out until the
problem comes up .
R . Cotanch : I think you all know Brian Lucy . He came in and found a
terrific loophole in the mobile home ordinance right away .
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G . Totman : This is a 30 -40 page pamphlet that Hicks had and said to
save it for the Zoning Board of Appeals , so I ' ll give it
to you , Joe .
Hicks and I have written to Albany for copies of memoranda
and cases that have come before Board of Appeals , which we
can give to you which should be very helpful . Ron and I ,
and Roger , went to New York and listened to problems that
other people had and listened to the speakers about cases
that came up in other towns , and it ' s hard to pick it out
and tell it to somebody else .
Are there any questions about this map and the different
zones in the ordinance ?
J . Wargo : What do the stars mean up here ?
G . Totman : They mean with special permit .
J . Wargo : 0 . K .
G . 9btman : The 701 Committee , Second Phase , will hold their first meeting
on March 22nd at 7 : 30 P . M . in the Village Hall and we strongly
recommend that members of the Village Planning Board and
Village Board , also Town Planning Board members attend .
The second phase will mostly deal with the study of housing in
the Town and Village of Groton and a capital expenditure pro -
gram over a period of years and they will make recommendations
for this . It won ' t be like the first phase .
R . Cotanch : Would it be beneficial to c ome up with what the 701 is all
about ?
(Mr . (btanch and Mr . Totman explained the 701 program to
all present . )
G . Totman : This is a paragraph that I would like to read to the Zoning
Board of Appeals members : " In the granting of a variance ,
the Board must take care to ensure that the public safety
and welfare are preserved and substantial justice has been
done . The Board should consider how granting a particular
variance will affect neighboring properties . If more harm
will be done to them by granting the variance then. . to the
applicant by denying it , the variance should be denied . "
Hicks outlined this in the brochure which I ' ll give to you , Joe .
I know you think you are getting a lot of stuff .
Z . Kane : Maybe some of these people have some questions .
J . Wargo : I think I ' d rather read all this first before I get into
asking questions .
G . Totman : Maybe we could lay the groundwork now for the future . Possibly
you would like to have a meeting and get acquainted with each
other and discuss this stuff and make notes on what you would
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like to ask and we could have joint meetings together . We
want to do whatever we can to help you out . We would rather
have you tell us how much help you would like from us .
Z . Kane : Don ' t you think it would be helpful if we pointed out what
the different parts are . Someone always bogs down on the
definitions .
Some discussion was held on this by Z . Kane , G . Tot -
man and others .
G . Totman : When you are thinking of trailers they are just considered
single family dwellings as far as the zoning ordinance is
concerned , but we do have a separate trailer ordinance that
trailers have to comply with , - - like having skirting and
things like that .
L . Volpicelli : I didn ' t even know there was a mobile home ordinance . No -
body has complied with it , have they ?
G . 9btman : They have a zoning enforcement officer .
L . Volpicelli : I have seen trailers without skirts on them and we have quite
a few eyesores on Peruville Road that have been put up the
last few years .
G . Totman : The Town Board appointed Dana Snell as the ordinance enforcer
and it has been his job to check these things out . People
are supposed to apply for permits before putting in trailers .
If they apply for a permit and he has given his approval they
are in the clear . Some of them , I know , have put trailers in
and not applied for permits and nothing has been done . In my
own mind , the only way I can answer your questions is to say
that we now have a so to speak , new Town Board , Mr . Dow is
the Town Supervisor and I feel he is very much concerned over
some of the inadequacies that have been going on over the last
couple of years and he , personally , has been going out meeting
with people who are not complying with the ordinance and letting
them know something is going to be done . He is getting permits
printed for people who require them and I think ,you will find
something different going on than in the past .
More discussion was held on this by L . Volpicell :i , G .
Totman and others and also some discussion was held on
the junkyard and swimming pool ordinances .
R . Cotanch : Is that the land use map over there ?
G . Totman : Yes ,
R . Cotanch : Afterwards , I would suggest you take a look at it and you can
get a general idea how many areas there are and where in the
Town of Groton .
G . Totman : Well , Joe , I think the main reason for having the meeting to -
night was to get acquainted with each other and give you some -
thing to think about and what I would like to do now , instead
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of telling you what to do , because it ' s your business , is
for you to let us know what you would like us to do to
help you . I ' m sure it ' s the feeling of our own Board that
once you have gone over this and have questions you will
have lots of them for us , and there ' s more information coming
that you will need , as far as having your public hearings . For
instance , if somebody wants a variance to the ordinance , you
will have to hold a public hearing and you will be the judge
at the public hearing , so I ' m sure you will want to know what
you are doing so that is why we sent for these memoranda .
Some discussion was held on the authority of the Zoning
Board of Appeals and its duties by D . Payne , Z . Kane ,
G . Totman and others .
D . Payne : When a request for a variance is asked for , - - how does the
Zoning Board of Appeals know that the immediate neighborhood
is aware that there will be a public hearing ?
J . Wargo : It ' s supposed to be advertised in the newspaper ,
More discussion was held on this by G . Totman , D . Payne ,
J . Wargo , Z . Kane and others to the effect that the people
on adjoining properties where the variance is being asked
for would also be . notified in writing by mail .
G . Totman : Has anybody any questions or would anyone else want to bring
anything up that we have forgotten ? I was just talking to
Joe and they are going to have a meeting and go over the
information they have and then call us when they want us to
meet with them again and how we proceed from there .
R . Cotanch : I have a question I brought up at the last meeting . Is there
any interest in the Town of Groton to have the Planning Board
sponsor a meeting to try to explain to farmers this agricultural
district proposal of the State ? I suppose you should look into
it , if nothing else ?
G . Totman : If there is enough interest and we could get enough farmers , we
could have someone come in and go over what this agricultural
district program entails , - - how you go about getting it and
the advantages and disadvantages of it . Who do you think would
be interested ;
J . Wargo : I think you would have to make it known ,
G . Totman : Probably call people and have them tell their neighbors ,
R . Cotanch : Groton City could probably make a very good agricultural district .
Some discussion was held on this by J . Wargo , G . Hoy , R .
Cotanch and others .
G . Totman : I will contact some of them and see what we can do and we will
arrange to have a meeting here ,
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More discussion was held on this by F . Schefflerr ,
Z . Kane and others .
Mr . Wargo and the members of the Zoning Board of
Appeals decided they would hold their first meeting
in the Town Hall on April 4th and invited Mr . Totman
to attend .
G . Totman : Our next meeting will be April 5th and , bear in mind , this
will be our annual meeting and we will have to elect a
chairman and wecretary .
At the last Town Board meeting , Hicks presented plans to the
Town Board for a new subdivision - - a 250 acre tract on
Sovocool Hill - - it wasn ' t officially presented - - just a
layout of the lots the way they are going to have them
arranged . When they officially present it , it will have to
be to the Planning Board but , from looking at it , it would
have 250 acres laid out with lots and they would be 10 acre
lots . Don ' t know who is going to buy 10 acre lots to build
one house on but that is the way he has it laid out but we
can expect any day now to have it submitted to us for our
approval and I understand there is another one being drawn
up . I ' m not sure where that one is , but you can ' t do enough
studying on these subdivision regulations . By the next
meeting we should have the plans for the one up on Sovocool
Hill *
If there isn ' t anything else to bring up I think we have
served our purpose for holding our meeting this evening
and will be waiting for word from Joe as to what we can
do to work with them .
Don ' t forget we will meet again the first Wednesday in
April , - - the 5th .
Mr . Cotanch moved that the meeting be adjourned and
Mr . Scheffler seconded the motion . Motion carried .
Res ectfully submitted ,
Jos phi e Bell
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