HomeMy WebLinkAbout1987-03-16 TOWN OF GROTON
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
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Public Hearing , Monday , March 16 , 1987
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A FACT FINDING hearing upon written complaints of Gary Wood , Code Enforcement
Officer of the Town of Groton charging JOSEPH WILBUR 396 Lick Street,, Groton ,
New York with the Violation of the Town of Groton Land Useand Development
Code , Section 325 and / or Article III of the Mobile Home Ordinance of 'the Town
of Groton .
BOARD ( - present ) : PUBLIC PRESENT :
-Lyle Raymond , Chairman Gary Wood , Code Enforcement
*David Ofner Officer
%-Mary Decker Leslie Cohen , Attorney
Nial Smith Joseph & Linda Wilbur
Terry Ofner
Cecil Twigg
George Totman
Monica Carey
Blanche ' Volbrecht
Franklin Mott
LYLE RAYMOND , Chairman , opened the Public Hearing by reading the Legal
Notice published March 2 , 1987 and attached .
RAYMOND : We have a communication I wish to mention that we received
addressed to both the Town Board , Town of Groton and also
particulary , Lyle Raymond , Chairman , Board of Zoning Appeals ,
Groton , New York ,
RE : Mr . & Mrs . Joseph Wilbur
( Section 732 . 2 ( a ) Fire Preventtion Code )
( Article III Groton Mobile Home Ordinance )
Please be advised that this office has been retained
to represent Mr . & Mrs . Joseph Wilbur ; in the above
matter . We are writing this letter pursuant to your
notice of February 24 , 1987 to request that we be
heard on this zoning matter . We are also enclosing
our answer to the violations charged . ;,
Would you please contact this office and inform us of
the date and time of said hearing .
signed : Leslie H . Cohen , Attorney at Law
ANSWER TO CLAIMED VIOLATIONS : The respondent Mr . & Mrs .
Joseph Wilbur by their attorney do respond to claimed
violations as follows :
1 . That the Mobile Home which is the' subject of the
proceedings is located on their own land and is not a
permanent dwelling as would be subject'^ of Article III
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BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS - 2 - March 16 , 1987
Public Hearing -WILBUR
of the Mobile Home Ordinance of the Town of Groton , New York ,
2 . That Respondents further conten& that this situation
is not one properly subject of the N . Y . S . Fire Prevention
Code .
3 . That this matter should either be dismissed or a
variance granted .
RAYMOND : Before we continue with the hearing we do need to clarify the
situtation . Mr . and Mrs . Wilbur have been cited by Gary under
two Codes here in the Town . One is the Zoning Ordinance and
the other is the Motile Home Ordinance . I do want to clarify
that the Mobile Home Ordinance in the Town' of Groton the Town
Board has reserved for itself for administration and therefore ,
the Board of Zoning Appeals can only deal with the part that
deals with the Zoning Ordinance . Since theiaddress for a
variance has been addressed to the Mobile Home Ordinance we
therefore , will pass on your request to the Town Board as
per the responsibilities as they are deligated here . I want
to clarify that the hearing will onl be on the part that we .
can deal with and that is the Town Zoning Ordinance .
I will open the hearing to any comments that are to be made .
Mr . & Mrs Wilbur would you like to start .
L . COHEN : ( Attorney for Mr . & Mrs . Wilbur ) Ladies and Gentlemen , first
of all , to begin with , the Wilbur ' s are a somewhat unusual family .
One of the . things that is somewhat different is , this is not a
mobile home as we understand the term mobile home , this is not
a trailer , Where people live in a permanent s'rructure , I think
that would properly be termed a mobile home . Mr . Wilbur has an
occupation that takes him to different , parts of the State and
different parts of the Country . . They own a piece of lands on
that piece of land is a house and also what we call a travel
trailer . Not in the truest sense the meaning of a mobile home .
What is somewhat unusual about the Wilbur family , is that when
Mr . Wilbur i s off working during many parts of the year , his
wife and family go with him . The travel trailer is there and
it is a really beautiful travel trailer . It is a 1981 Shasta .
It is not a poptent or junk pile in any stretch of the
imagination . All the Wilburs want to do is live in this trailer
not an extensive part of the year , but they like to have the
trailer there when Mr . Wilbur goes onto his job so Mrs . Wilbur
and the family can go with him . I talked with Gary earlier
today , we would like a variance and I don ' t think this is a
proper application of the Mobile Home Ordinance . There are
some nice mobile home parks in the County and there are also
plots of land with broken down mobile homes on them . That is
not even remotely this situation . This isl' a travel trailer
that they stay in part of the year . I propose , the Wilburs
are generally hung up about 4 months of the year as the time
they can ' t travel , when Mr . Wilbur is not on the road .
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS - 3 - March 16 , 1987
Public Hearing-WILBUR
What I would like propose , if it is acceptable to the Board ,
that for no longer than an extended period of time of say
4 months these people would like to be able to make use of
the travel trailer . It has all the facilities that a person
could want ; it is much nicer than some of the mobile homes
some people live in . And be able to go back and forth when
Mr . Wilbur is traveling on a job . The only period of time
that they would seemably be using it to live in would be 4 or
5 months out of the year . This is all that we wish . You
indicated before that your bible is the Ordinance . You have
the power to interpret that Ordinance . We+„ think that this
is a more fair proposal to the Board . To deprive them of that
would really place a burden on them . Mrs . " Wilbur ' s daughter
is living in the house on the property so they are not gypsies .
They do own the house on land and they keep the travel trailer
on the land as well . It is not an eyesore;. I have a letter
given to me today . It is addressed to you Mr . Raymond . Do you
mind if Tread it ?
RAYMOND : You may read it into the record .
COHEN : It is a letter received from Lawrence Woernley :
In reference to your letter of March 21, 1987 that
I received concerning the complaint against Joseph
Wilbur for occupirig a travel trailer on his property
I would like to make the following comment .
Our property adjoins Mr . Wilburs property , however I do not
feel that the use of this trailer encoaches on my property
rights in any way , therefore I would like to request that
Mr . Wilbur be allowed to continue to occupy this travel trailer .
Signed : Laurence G . Woernley Jr .
The bottom line is we are not desirous of having anything unsafe ,
unhealthy , unsightly and I don ' t think it poses any problem to
the preservation 4) f the Ordinance . This is . somewhat of a
unique situation . I don ' t chink that the use by Mr . & Mrs . Wilbur
of this trailer , it is really being used as a temporary thing
as they go back and forth to Mr . Wilbur ' s job . It does not pose
any great threat to the citizens or the ordinance or to the
Ladies and Gentlemen of the Board .
RAYMOND : What has their present occupancy been , you : mentioned 4 months ?
COHEN : This is what I propose . There would be no solid occupancy where
they would be living there on a day by day basis except for the
times Mr Wilbur is not working on the job ' and that is often
weather controlled .
RAYMOND : Do you think this 4 months occupancy would be for short periods
of time throu3hout the year ?
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BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS - 4 - March 16 , 1987
Public Hearing-WILBUR
COHEN0 It would be the winter months , Mr . Wilbur does construction ,
the other times they would be off back and;, forth to the job .
As I stated , it poses no grave problems t6 anybody , as far as
I can see .
RAYMOND : How long have they been living in the trailer presently ?
J . WILBUR : We have been in and out of there since whenever the trailer
was registered . It was licensed in October and I have been
in and out . About December 1 , Thanksgiving time , I set it up
for permanence as it is now until about the first of April and
then it is going to Brewster , New York where I work presently .
RAYMOND0 You have been continuously there since Thanksgiving ?
J . WILBUR : The fifth wheel is the terminology of it . It has been setting
there since Thanksgiving , as you see it now . We have not been
permanently there . I have been gone 4 to 5 days a week , every
week , since January 1 . I am there on Saturdays and Sundays .
I have been going to Brewster , New York and staying at motels .
L . COHEN : That is what I pointed out before . It is not a permanent request
that is being made . It is not a permanent structures it is a
unique situations it comes and goes .
D . OFNER : I am a little confused . I just want to sort something out .
You said that Mr . and Mrs . Wilbur live in a house .
L . COHEN : No , they have a house that they own on their property .
D . OFNER : Do they live in the house ?
L . COHEN : Occassionally , their daughter lives in there now . The travel
trailer was purchased and exists so that the family can go with
Mr Wilbur when he is working . This allows him to take his
family with him .
D . OFNER : He owns a permanent home , the house on the !' lot is his ?
L . COHEN : Yes , the land is his also .
D . OFNER : That is his home and the travel trailer i6 for him to live in
when he is off working ?
L . COHEN : That ' s right .
D . OFNER : But he does not come home to the home he comes home to the
travel trailer ?
L . COHEN Occassionally he comes home and stays in the travel trailer .
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BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS - 5 - March 16 1987
Public Hearing-WILBUR
D . OFNER : And occassionally could be 4 or 5 months ?
L . COHEN : The only extended period of time would be circumstances when
he is not working . I arbitralily used 4 months because it is
around 4 or 5 months in that business when there could be a
total layoff . I used that expanded period ' so they could get
the complete use of the trailer . Beside from that it is difficult
to stick this into the Mobile Home wording because that presumes
somebody is going to stay there forever and this is not the case
here . If it were then you would have to come in with all the .
pieces and terms of your Ordinance . But this is not quite
there . That is why I ask the Board to look at it as a fairly
unique situation . All the statutes in the world can be written
but there will always be something that doesn ' t quite fit and
that is why you people are here to interpret circumstances that
are not quite fitting .
L . RAYMOND : I note - in the letter that we received from '„ you you do refer to
it as a mobile home and not a travel trailer .
COHEN : I used that term as a discription of this particular , they call
them RV ' s , they call them mobile homes , they call them travel
trailers . This facility is not intended , as it sits in one
place , to be there permanently ; a constant dwelling in that one
place .
D . OFNER : You mentioned that Mr . and Mrs . Wilbur ' s daughter lives in the
house ; is this a single person who lives in the house ? and
where is the Wilbur ' s permanent home ?
L . WILBUR : My daughter , her husband and a son .
D . OFNER : So there is another family living in the house so where is the
Wilbur ' s permanent home ?
L . COHEN : Their house is also their permanent home .
D . OFNER : The usual situation with a person with an RV is the person goes
on vacation or maybe , as in his case , on location ; they usually
come home to a permanent home and the RV is parked , either under
cover or out of cover . In this case, the Wilbur ' s do not live
in that home .
L COHEN : Not in one place constant .
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D . OFNER : They do not live in the permanent structure , on that lot ?
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L . COHEN : That ' s right . i
D . OFNER : But they do always live in the mobile home ? ' That is the only
home that they have ?
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS - 6 - March 16 , 1987
Public Hearing -WILBUR
L . COHEN : Now a days you see on the highways signs , ' I have the best job
in the world , I ' m retired ' . People don ' t in this day and age
just have a house and a travel trailer . There are some people
that that travel trailer becomes their home and they go from
place to place with it . We are not saying ' that thats the
situation with the Wilburs . What we are saying is , their home
is in your town , they live in Groton . Mr . Wilbur has the kind
of job that is not a 9 to 5 and come home . `, His job takes him
to . different places . This is the way they have chosen in order
to be with the family . I don ' t think in this unique circumstances
you would be risking anything , or causing any questionable
interpretation of the laws , by determining ,' that this was a
mobile home , stationary , on one place that ', became their
permanent structure . This is not always there in one. place .
For roughly 8 months a year it goes different places . The only
time it would -be there for any length of time is when Mr . Wilbur
is not working .
M . DECKER : As it is set up at the present time is it connected to the
septic system of the house , how is that being handled ?
J . WILBUR : According to ' quote unquote ' I understood that holding tanks
were not illegal in New York State . What a holding tank means
is sewage flows into it and when the tank , is . full I call a
septic tank service and they come and pump out , There is no
drainage field required for a holding tank because you are
not putting the sewage 1.nto the ground . So that is what is
there , a holding tank . Whatever is on the ' RV or fifth wheel
or whatever classification you want to call it . There is a
holding tank on that which is dumped into the other holding
tank when required .
M . DECKER .: How many of you are occupying that fifth wheeler at the present
time ?
J . WILBUR : Just myself and my wife .
D . OFNER This vehicle is your permanent home , the only home you are
occupying ?
J . WILBUR : If you classify it that way , yes , but no , the point is my
address has not changed . How do you classify d home other
than an address .
D . OFNER : The structure or dwelling you are living in now , whether it
is in one location or the other , is set up for your permanent
use ?
J . WILBUR : If that is the way you want to word it , it ` is for thepurpose
of our use at this given time .
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BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS - 7 - P March 16 , 1987
Public Hearing -WILBUR
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D . OFNER : You . talk about solids in your wastewater where do you have ,
you have water in your kitchen sink , does that also go into
your holding tank ?
J . WILBUR : Yes , it does Lt has a holding tank for that also .
D OFNER : It presently does go into that holding tank ?
J . WILBUR : Yes ,
M . DECKER : I went by there yesterday , what is that pipe coming out of there ?
J . WILBUR : That pipe was put in there last fall and then when I got questioned
about the whole matter I left it there and I have not removed
the pipe out of sight . The holding tank is right where that
pipe is . And I will remove that pipe that you are referring to
out of sight and the other pipe from the RV will be coming in
within ten feet from that pipe right now .
M . DECKER : When I went by there yesterday it looked like there was some
fluid of some sort coming from that , is that possible ?
J . WILBUR : There shouldn ' t be but with the heavy snow and stuff running
off , and as you know , that area there is always wet this time of
year . There is running water on the ground , surface water
between there and
M . DECKER : As I said I ;couldn ' t say whether the water was coming out of
the pipe but there was water running away from it .
J . WILBUR : Well that is melt off .
L . RAYMOND : Our Zoning Officer , Gary Wood , has indicated in his citation
a violation of the area , which 840 square feet is required ,
does the home meet that requirement ? Whether it is permanent
or not , does it meet the 840 square feet requirement ?
J . WILBUR : That is where we get into the difference between a mobile home
and an RV . An RV , to be legally hauled down the highway , cannot
never meet 800 square feet .
L . RAYMOND : I understand that .
J . WILBUR So that is the difference between an RV and a mobile home even
to begin with . So that should answer your question right there .
L . RAYMOND : It does not meet the 840 square feet for the reasons you
stated
D . OFNER : Can you , give us the dimensions of your home ?
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS - 8 - March 16 , 1987
Public Hearing-WILBUR
J . WILBUR : 33 feet by 7 . 6 feet .
D . OFNER Roughly 240 square feet .
40 M4% pictures of the home were looked av" '"''
L . RAYMOND : Is there anyone else here who wishes to make a statement in
this case ?
D . OFNER : I have another question . We have to go by the Zoning Ordinance
we can ' t modify it . The Zoning Ordinance does have a description
of a mobile home . ' a factory produced residential building
transported to a site as a trailer containing one dwelling unit '.
Is that what this is ?
L . COHEN : The point that I have been trying to make all along , if we were
dealing with what you just described , there would be no question
this would be outside the perview or compliance with the Ordinance .
This is an instance it does not fit in because it is not a
mobile home . You start off with a structure that stays there
all the time , never moves and people live in it all the time
This is a travel trailer used in a unique way used by people
who want to be together when he is working . The only time
that that thing would ever be here is the. time when Mr . Wilbur
is not working . It is propbably ten times more comfortable
to live in than some of the run down mobile homes others live
in . I see this as no problem . If you are looking to fit this
in with others , it is hard to do , it just does not fit ! it is
different . That is why I made the proposal that I talked with
Gary about that this be handled on this basis .
L . RAYMOND * If we don ' t have any others who . wish to make statements
L . WILBUR : I am not in it all the time . I am in the house all day long
because I babysit . The only reason that I stay in it at
night is because it gets kind of hectic staying with your
kids all the time . On the weekend my husband and I do stay
in it together . The only thing that I can see is this mobile
home has brought our lives together and now someone comes along
and ruins it , but we are not- going to let anybody ruin it .
I don ' t stay in it that much , I ' m in the house most of the time .
If you adults can live with your 20 , 21 year old children , then
go ahead .
L . RAYMOND : Is there anyone else who would like to make an additonal
statement ?
B . VOLBRECHT : I think it is a shame , I ' m sorry I live in, the Town of Groton .
I have lived here for years and years and I just see our
freedoms going right down the tube and I feel so sad , I ' m
ashamed
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS - 9 March 16 , 1987
Public Hearing -WILBUR,
L . COHEN : CouldI sum up on this . The easiest way to say this is ; in effect
unless we were using this thing to stay in forever , almost no -
I think the best statemeait was made by Mrs . Wilbur , she wants
to be with her husband ; she is only in there part of the time .
I can ' t see this posing a threat to the Townships and the manner
in which it is used as we propose , I think ' Whould be acceptable
to you .
L . RAYMOND : Gary Wood , do you want to make any additional remarks ?
G . WOOD : Perhaps this clarification . The question that I posed to you is
not the definition of this facility You very clearly have a
Zoning Ordinance that says a dwelling in which people reside
must be 840 square feet , I think that is the question . You also
have another part of the Zoning Ordinance which I did not cite
which says you must have lots . of at least one acre and 200 foot
frontage .
L . COHEN : Gary , we spoke today , would this be acceptable , could you live
with this ?
G . WOOD : I have no judgment in this matter .
M . DECKER : As Gary stated and Lyle stated earlier , we as a Board did not
put the laws in , the people of the Town of Groton did .
L . COHEN : I would pose this to you from a purely legal point of view ,
that this particular structure is not what the Ordinance was
intended to cover . It was intended to cover permanent dwellings
where people stay in continuously . It is true that certain period
of time people live in it but it is the nature so that it is
available to go back and forth to work . We .are not asking
you to change or alter , if you allow this to take place , it would
not alter your perogative to deal with other structures that
people live in on a continuous basis . You would not be deviating
from using your Ordinance if you granted permission to thesi
people to operate as I proposed . If they did that then that
would be another story . I guess too that it is unnecessary
for us to go through the variance proceeding as you indicated
it would be popped over to the Town Board We would be glad
to save that extra step , that extra time of people , if you could
deal with it on the basis as I proposed . If these people misuse
it , if Mr . . and Mrs . Wilbur stay in this structure all year round
or for a significant period of time then its ' different than I
propose it to you then I see every reason to violate them . -
"you said one thing now you ' re doing another " I think everybody
could live with the circumstances I propose without hurting the
Ordinance and without hurting Gary ' s enforcement of them .
L . RAYMOND : If there are no further statements I will close this hearing .
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS - 10 - March 16 , 987
Public Hearing-WILBUR
I , MARGARET A . PALMER , DO CERTIFY that in the matter of 4
violation by JOSEPH WILBUR of the Town of Groton Land Use and Development
Code , held at the Town Hall , Town of Groton , Monday , March 16 , 1987 did take
the minutes of said hearing and the foregoing is a true and exact copy of
said hearing , to the best of my ability .
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