HomeMy WebLinkAbout1985-06-04 TOWN OF GROTON
ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
Public Hearing , - Tuesday , June 49 1985
BOARD ( *present ) PUBLIC PRESENT
*J . Bell Phillip Shurtleff
*M . Decker Lacey Griep
*D . Ofner Mrs . Harry Griep
L . Raymond Steven Sutliff r
N . Smith Milton DeGraw ',
Colleen Pierson , Town Clark
George Totman , Chmn . Planning Board
Gary Wood , Zoning Officer
Public Hearing to consider the application of HARRY GRIEP for
a variance of the Zoning Ordinance of the Town of Groton in regard to road
frontage . . ,
J . Bell opened the Public Hearing with the reading of the
Public Notice dated May 20 , 1985s A correction in the Public Notice was
noted that Joseph F . Osmeloski did not apply for the variances Phil
Shurtleff apllied on behalf of -Harry Griep for the same reason , variance
as to road frontage .
BELLS Anyone in favor of the Appeal with comments please stand and
identify yourself and state . your case .
SHURTLEFFs I am aea Estate Broker . I represent Mr . Griep ; he contracted
with me to sell some land for him . As I read the Zoning Law ,
he was short in having 200 - foot frontage to convey . As I read .
it , I could not see anything in the law that said it had to be
continuous 200 feet . I called-Mr . - Wood ,- I > read the law as I --
saw it to him and said all I see is that he had to have 200
foot of frontage . Mr Griep ' s attorney read the law and he
thought 200 foot frontage too . On the basis of that , Mr . Wood
said to go ahead with the project but he suggested I call the
Health Department , I called the Health Department and explained
the situation to them and they said it was fine with them . They
felt there was room for the lateral' s or anything else that might
be needed . On that basis , after talking with Mr . Wood and the
Health Department we ordered a survey . It came in at $489 . 00 .
The application was put in by the would be - purchaser and , I
understand , the permit was denied . I went back to Mr . Wood
and he said he thought the cleanest way of everything and to -
save legal hassle , was to come' in and ask for a variance .
If you deny the variance , Mr . Griep will lose the sale of the
land and will be stuck with the costs incurred so far . I can ' t -
see where its going to hurt anybody up there . In fact , on
Pleasant Valley Road Mr . Torok was granted a variance for 137
foot frontage to build a building . The idea is not brand new .
If it is not the intent of the Zoning law to allow . . . . . . . . . .
frontage , I think the law should be amended and made specific
' to be understood by everyone . All I can say at this point
uy
PUBLIC HEARING ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS - 3- June 4 , 1985
OFNER : I have a question , Phil , did you say the Code Enforcement
Officer approved the frontage?
SHURTLEFFs He told me he agreed with me in the way the law was written .
OFNER : Did he give you a building permit?
SHURTLEFFs He told me theirs would be no problem .
WOOD : At that time , yes .
OFNER : Why are we hers?
WOOD : The reason we are here is that I stand in the minority of one .
I am the only one that interpreted the law this way . The
question was posed to me much as Mr . Shurtleff said . I looked
at the book a lot , a lot of at least one acre . If you look at
the definition of a lot , contiuous piece of property . It says
200 feet of frontage . The definition of frontage is the distance .
measured alone; the street right of way not , a continuous line .
I have been biased by the face I know the courts ruled over the
years the only legal reason they allow for setting area require-
- ments in zoning in an ordinance was to establish density patterns .
The net resuli . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . The literal interpretation
of the law is met , then the intent of the law is met . I said
_ --- - - -_ it looks good enough to me .
i
OFNER : Is the sewagg the only reason for the ' 200 foot frontage?
WOOD : No . The matter of establishing density patterns in that
- - - -- particular land use area .
SHURTLEFF : There has never been any buildingI can possibly see on three
sides of this . As far as increasing. the density , the Health
Department looked at it and they said as far as they were con-
cerned plenty of toom for everything .
BELL : I have a question . You have approximate 19 acres and you ' re
selling approximately 10 acres? hh
L . GRIEP : He is selling 10 acres of field , andXeoasx �cXwmaxs�xannue
BELL : Just on Sovoccol Hill Rd . frontage is available?
L . GRIEP : The field is level on the road front and level part way down
the hill . The rest is hilly and up a raven .
BELLS What are you c ;oing to do with the rest of the acerage left?
L . GRIEP't As far as I. kr!ow it stays with the house that is already there .
There is possibly room for a garage back there . Everything
is too inaccesable for anything . The field is above this 10
acres . It is not level but fairly level .
�r
PUBLIC HEARING ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS - 5- II June 4 , 1985
BELLS It depends whether, the Board says ' yes you ', can have the frontage
to build back on this acerage ' .
SHURTLEFFs If land is 200 foot across front and one acre and now we ' re
talking . . . if I wanted to buld within 8 feet of line I would ,
theoretically , be able to as long as set from the street .
I would have all kinds of room on this side . If you allow a
mobile home in there , he tells me he eventually plans a house.
In any event , he Mould still have in that hundred plus feet more
than any offset ycu require .
BELLS You ' re talking about 114 as opposed to 200 � feet . You ' re crowding
several in as far as density .
SHURTLEFF : I don ' t donceivably see any way putrbarn in that area . He wants
the barn for horses . When we walked the land clear back of the
lot lines for the yarn .
L . GRIEP : Where the two trailers set a strip up the middle . The land
peaks then the lanJ levels down toward the '' north . Approximately
where he would put the trailer ] everything would go that way
from it . He needs the area in ;front for ` the driveway . He has
-- - — the ' U ' part can make into a circular driveway . He is building
trailer on top of t: he hill , in back of the 'llines of the two
— - " - trailers . I
BELLS Anybody else ' have any comments or questions as far as the Board
is concerned?
OFNER : I know lot frontage is established for tworeasons , the size
-- of the lot too . One reason is density . You talk about density
you talk about standard maintaining countryside . You get a
higher density of housing with this .
SHURTLEFF :
i'
OFNER : You are putting residential property along 'Ithe road , creating
tighter density . I ' m not saying precludedl!'' for not as . . . . .
have to consider that aspect in all fairness .
BELL : We are here to consider variance in the Town of Groton with
regards to road frontage . As far as if the buyer decides to
put a trailer on , then he is going to have ' to meet the conditions
the Board of Appeals sets , if the Board of '' Appeals decides to
grant the variance , . If we say not build in this 114 foot area ,
you have a variance3 with conditions .
DeGRAW : This does not say then , that Mr°. Osmeloski ; can put trailer where
he wants to?
SHURTLEFFs What I am asking you is to grant the variance , then is Osmeloski
does not pay them for the land then I wil get somebody else to
PUBLIC HEARING ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS - 7 June 49 1985
BELLS That is why there are variances sothat things set as far as the
Zoning Ordinance you can appeal to the very strick conditions .
That is what we ' re doing tonight .
DeGRAWs What I am saying in this sense , if you did !Iturn down there is no
reason he can ' t go to the County and have the land valued as
agricultural .
BELLS If t trai er is 11 c d legal J9 wYYYYIiX'6XW6u ,j tgim xhYYboXYdaries
and �ia variance wQI � �a gr�n a T9 can a �ux � n fge 114 strip .
SHURTLEFFs The variance granted to Mr,: - , Torok except that no way get- 200
foot frontage . The stipulation was that he would nct build in
that lane .
PIERSON : The one Phil is talking about when they placed . the home back
there , they are not looking into someone ' s 'iback yard .
BELL : Here again , what we are going is granting or not granting a
11
variance for road frontage . Yet you have + 10 acres to build
back there . The person building will have '; to meet the Zoning
requirements .
SHURTLEFFs If you don ' t let him build in the 114 foot1,,� area but fray back .
DeGRAWs If you grant .,-this, then the next step is for a building permit?
SUTLIFF : In our sgreement the hedgerow would be left but the Hedgerow
behind our property could be removed .
DeGRAWs We have privacy now .
SHURTLEFFs It probably won ' t be conveyed until there is agreement among
everybody on the lines . We are asking forMvariance on the road
r frontage .
BELL : If everybody understands the situation and �,ithere are no more
questions , I will close the Hearing . We will make a decision
and advise you within 60 days .
I MARGARET A;. PALMER9 DO CERTIFY
that a e t the Public Hearing for
the Zoning Board of Appeals in the Town of Groton for 'la variance in the
Town Zoning Ordinance requested by HARRY GRIEP on Sovocool Hill Rd . , Town
of Groton held on June 4 , 1985 , I did takerthe minutes of said 'Hearing
and the foregoing is a true and exact copy ' to the best" of my ability .
�.z/.�
b
TOWN OF GROTON
ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS;;
i
WHEREAS , application No . 85- 51 - A , a request for a variance of
section 353 . 1 . E of the Town of Grotcn Land Use and Development Code was
filed on May 31 , 1985 , and
it
WHEREAS , said application requests a variance to permit a place-
ment of a mobile home on property orined by Harry Griep on Sovocool Hill
Road , being a portion of Tax Map Parcel 25- 1 - 19 . 2 and '' containing 9 . 72
acres of land, by reducing the required frontage of 200 or 150 feet to 114
feet , and
WHEREAS , all members of the board present viewed the property ,
and
WHEREAS , after due notice a public hearing was held by the Board
of Zoning Appeals at 8 : 00 p . m . on June 41 1985 to consider the application
and
WHEREAS , at. said hearing all those who desired to be heard were
heard and their testimony recorded , and
WHEREAS , all testimony has been carefully cosidered and the
following facts noted : `
1 . The frontage is 114 f3et with no larger frontage available
to the 9 . 72 acres .
2 . Landowner was left with a piece of property , with 114 feet
of frontage to use fo ^ right of way to ,iget to the 9 . 72 " ,
- -- acres , . not of his own making . . , _
NOW , THEREFORE , be it resolved that the application of Harry
Griep for a variance of Section 353 . 1 . 8 reducing the required frontage be
GRANTED to the following extent , and upon _ the following
conditions :
1 . No building or structure is � to be constructed closer than
330 feet from the center line of Sovocool Hill Rd .
2 . Any conveyance of the property by deedlwill be subject to
-the conditions of this variance .
The foregoing Resolution was submitted by : David Ofner
seconded by : Mary Decker
unanimously adopted by the Board on June -44 , 1985 .
fl
TOWN OF GROTON
ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
WHEREAS , application No . 85- 51 - A , a request for a var: . ance of
section 353 . 1 . B of the Town of Groton Land Use and Development Code was
filed on May 319 1985 , and
WHEREAS , said application requests a variance to perm, :t a place-
ment of a mobile home on property owned by Harry Griep on Sovocool Hill
Road , being a portion of Tax Map Parcel 25- 1 - 19 . 2 and containing 9 . 72
acres of land , by reducing the required frontage of 200 or 150 fi :et to 114
feet , and
WHEREAS , all members of the board present viewed the property ,
and
WHEREAS , after due notice a public hearing was held bit the Board
of Zoning Appeals at 8 : 00 p . m . on June 4 , 1985 to consider the application
and
WHEREAS , at said hearing all those who desired to be heard were .
heard and their testimony recorded , and
WHEREAS , all testimony has been carefully cosidered and the
following facts noteds
1 . The frontage is 114 feet with no larger frontage available
to the 9 . 72 acres .
2 . Landowner was left with a piece of property with 4. 14 feet
of frontage to use for right of way to get to the 9 . 72 -
acres , not of his own _ making .
NOW , THEREFORE , be it resolved that the application of Harry
Griep for a variance of Section 353 . 1 . E reducing the required frontage be
GRANTED to the following extent and upon_ the following
conditionss
1 . No building or structure is ' to be constructed closer than
330 feet from the center line of Sovocool Hill Rd .
2 . Any conveyance of the property by deed will be sub ,; ect to
the conditions of this variance .
b
The foregoing Resolution was submitted by : David Ofner
seconded by : Mary Decker
unanimously adopted by the Board on June -- 4 , . 1985 .
AL
TOWN OF GROTON
ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
Public Hearing , Tuesday , June 4 , 1985
BOARD ( *present ) PUBLIC PRESENT
*J . Bell Phillip Shurtleff
#M . Decker Lacey Griep
#D . Ofner Mrs . Harry Griep
L . Raymond Steven Sutliff
N . Smith Milton DeC; raw
Colleen Pl. erson , Town Clerk
George Totrman , Chmn . Planning Board
Gary Wood , Zoning Officer
Public Hearing to consider the application of HARRY GRIEP for
a variance of the Zoning Ordinance of the Town of Groton in regard to road
frontage .
J . Bell opened the Public Hearing with the reading of the
Public Notice dated May 20 , 1985 . A correction in the Public Notice was
noted that Joseph F . Osmeloski did not apply for the variance ; Phil
Shurtieff apllied on behalf of Harry Griep for the : same reason, variance
as to road frontage . _
BELL : t Anyone in favor of the Appeal with comments please stand and
_identify yourself and state your case .
SHURTLEFF ': I ani a/ Rea Estate - Broker . I represent . Mr . Griep ; he contracted
with me to sell some land for him . As I read the Zoning Law ,
he was short in having 200 foot frontage to convey . As I read
it , I could not see anything in the lan that said it had to be
continuous 200 feete I called Mr . Wood , I read the law as I
saw it to him and said all I see is that he had to have 200
foot of frontage . Mr Griep ' s attorney read the law and he
thought 200 foot frontage too . On the basis of that , Mr . Wood
said to go ahead with the project but he suggested I call the
Health Department , I called the Health Department and explained
the situation to them and they said it was fine with them . They
felt there was room for the laterals or anything else that might
be needed . On that basis , after talking with Mr . Wood and the
Health Department we ordered a survey . It came in at $489 . 00 .
The application was put in by the would be purchaser and , I
understand , the permit was denied . I went back to Mr . Wood
and he said he thought the cleanest way of everything and to
save legal hassle , was to come in and ask for a variance .
If you deny the variance , Mr . Griep will lose the sale of the
land and will be stuck , with the costs incurred so far . I can ' t
see where its going to hurt anybody up there . In fact , on
Pleasant Valley Road Mr . Torok was granted a variance for 137
foot frontage to build a building . The: idea is not brand new .
If it is not the intent of the Zoning law to allow . . . . . . . . . .
frontage , I think = the law should be amended and made specific
- to be understood by everyone . All I can say at this point
tJ
PUBLIC HEARING ZONING BOARO OF APPEALS - 3- June 4 , 1985
OFNER : I have a question , Phil , did you say the :ode Enforcement
Officer approved the frontage?
SHURTLEFFs He told me he agreed with me in the way t 'ie law was written .
OFNERt Did he give you a building permit?
SHURTLEFF : He told me there would be no problem .
WOOD : At that time , yes .
OFNERs Why are we here?
WOOD : The reason we are here is that I stand in the minority of one .
I am the only one that interpreted the law' this way . The
question was posed to me much as Mr . Shurcleff said . I looked
at the book a lot , a lot of at least one tcre . If you look at
the definition of a lot , contiuous piece ) f property . It says
200 feet of frontage . The definition of `rontage is the distance .
measured along the street right of way no : a continuous line .
I have been biased by the face I know the courts ruled over the
years the only legal reason they allow fo % setting area require= . -
ments in zoning in an ordinance was to establish density patterns .
The net result . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . The literal interpretation
of the law is met , than the intent of the law is met . I said ' 1
it-looks good enough
OFNERs Is the . sewage the only reason for the 201 foot frontage?
WOODS No . The matter of establishing density patterns in that
particular-land use area . -- . - -- -- - -
SHURTLEFFs There has never been any building I can possibly see on three
sides of this . As far as increasing the density , the Health
Department looked at it and they said as "ar as they were con.
cerned plenty of toom for everything .
BELL : I have a question . You have approximate 19 acres and you ' re
selling approximately 10 acres?
L . GRIEP : He is selling 10 acres of field , aAedXlaast brxxm0 K xxxona
BELLS Just on Sovocool Hill Rd . frontage is available?
L . GRIEP : The field is level on the road front and :. evel part way down
the hill . The rest is hilly and up a rav : :n .
BELLS What are you going to do with the rest of the acerage left?
L . GRIEP!t As far as I know it stays with the house that is already there .
There is possibly room for a garage back there . Everything `
is too inaccesable for anything . The field is above this 10
acres . It is not level but fairly level .
1
` y.
PUBLIC HEARING ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS -5 June 41 1985
BELL : It depends whether the Board says ' yes you can have the frontage
to build back on this acerage ' .
SHURTLEFFt If land is 200 foot across front and one acre and now we ' re
talking . . . if I wanted to buld within 8 feet of line ' I would ,
11
theoretically , be able to as long as set from the street .
I would have all kinds of room on this side . If you allow a
mobile home in there , he tells me he eventually plans a house .
11
In any event , he would still have in that hundred plus feet more
than any offset you require .
BELLt You ' re talking about 114 as opposed to 2001ifaet . You ' re crowding
several in as far as density .
SHURTLEFF : I don ' t donceivably see any way put barn in that area . He wants
the barn for ' horses . When we walked the land : lear back of the
lot lines for the barn .
L . G RIEP . Wher
e the two trailers set a strip up the middle . The land
peaks then the land levels down toward the „ north . Approximately
Where he would put the trailer , everything would go that way
from it . He needs the area in front for the driveway . He has
the ' U ' " part can make into a circular driveway , He is building
trailer on top of the hill , in back of the ' linns of the two
trailers-. — - - -
BELL : Anybody else have any comments or question' as far as the Board
is concerned?
OFNER : I know lot - frontage is established for twolirea! „ons , the size
11
of the' lot too .— One reason is density . You tailk about density —you talk about standard maintaining countryside . You get a
higher density of housing with this ..
SHURTLEFF :
OFNER : You are putting residential property alongithe road , creating
tighter density . I ' m not saying precluded ,lfor not as . . . . .
have to consider that aspect in all fairness .
BELL : We are here to consider variance in the Town of Groton with
regards to road frontage . As far as if the buyer decides to
put a trailer on , then he is going to have � to meet the conditions ,
the Board of Appeals sets , if the Board of ;� Appeals decides to
grant the variance . If we say not build in th5s 114 foot area ,
you have a variance with conditions .
DeGRAW : This does not say then , that Mr . OsmeloskiCcan put trailer where
he wants to?
SHURTLEFFt What I am asking you is to grant the variance , then is Osmeloski
does not pay them for the land then I wll get somebody also to
s
PUBLIC HEARING ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS - 7- June 4 , 1985
BELL : That is why there are variances so that things set as far as the
Zoning Ordinance you can eippeal to the very strick conditions .
That is what we ' re doing tonight .
DeGRAW : What I am saying in this erense , if you did turn down there is no
reason he can ' t go to the County and have the land valued as
agricultural .
hh 11 11 will lie witblo the boundaries
BELL : andtt�ia varianceswQI �cna tjrr n a 1ftxcan�txeewbxuillxfnxtnexIY4 strip .
SHURTLEFF : The variance granted to Mr,: iTorok except that no way get 200
foot frontage . The stipu7.. ation was that he would not build in
that lane .
PIERSON : The one Phil is talking at )out when they placed the home back
there , they are not looking into someone ' s back yard .
BELL : Here again , what we are going is granting or not granting a
variance for road frontages . Yet you have ` 10 acres to build
back there . The person building will have to meet the Zoning
requirements .
SHURTLEFF : If you don ' t let him build in the 114 foot area but way back .
DeGRAW : If you grant this , then th• e next step is for a building permit?
SUTLIFF : In our agreement the hedgerow would be left but the hedgerow ,
behind our property could be removed .
DeGRAW : We have privacy now .
SHURTLEFF : It probably won ' t be conveyed until there is agreement among
everybody on the lines . We are asking for variance on the road
frontage .
BELLS If everybody understands the situation and there are no more
questions , I will close the Hearing . We will make a decision
and advise you within 60 days .
I , MARGARET A . PALMERI DO CERTIFY that at the Public Hearing for
the Zoning Board of Appeals in the Town of Groton for a variance in the
Town Zoning Ordinance requested by HARRY GRIEP on Sovocool Hill Rd . , Town
of Groton held on June 4 , 1985 , I did take the minutes of said Hearing
and the foregoing is a true and exact copy to the best of my ability .
J�_ Zoe
7
i
PUBLIC HEARING ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS - 6 - June 4 , 1985
pay them and be sure they undetstand everything . Let him sell
the land with conditirns not build withing the 114 foot width .
Give him the variance so he can move the land and recoup his
money .
BELL : The variance will be for a variance on the frontage , only .
DeGRAWs I like to know what will happen with the measurment . Will that
114 feet become 103 feet? If everybody is moved over 9 feet
the other lot should to too . At one point in time the stack
in culvert was moved and the surveyors were taking that as
the stack from the corner east . If that is true you still have
114 feet . but as it stands today I got 9 feet less . In my
abstract it goes by center of Sincerbeaux Rd . and also military
lot line , they are not together anymore . The center of Sincerbeaux
Rd . comes into my neic. hbors backyard . As you measure from there
that the way the line feeds . For some reason they refused to
measure from the military lot li-ne . Mr . Shurtleff keeps saying
they are coming to see me . '
SHURTLEFFs There will be no land to convey until the lines are determined
right . Going to remove lines 9 feet east from what the map
shows . Everybody will be moved 9 feet and the 114 feet will
_ still be there .
BELLS As far- as- -the - -legal survey and abstract , -we cannot become involved
in that . We can grant variances .
DECKER = They will still have 114 feet to work with ,
-OFNER= — It appease to me , the 114 feet and 109 feet , if he builds not
in there , it in effect would be a big right of way . Nine feet
is not a significant problem in 114 foot right of way .
SHURTLEFFs He will have to be back of the line . If he positions it on- -
the survey where he does there he won ' t be in the 114 foot strip .
L . GRIEPs I would like to state the whole intent of my father was to cut
down on his tax burden , that is the reason to sell the property .
This is the only open piece to sell to cut down his tax burden .
One reason he plans to reture and he would like to cut down
on his tax burden . Otherwise he won ' t belabls to pay his taxes .
DeGRAWs Like Lacey says , if the Town disapproves so you could not build
in there , they could gj3 to the County for a decrease in lot
taxes . Why can the Coijnty refuse not to lower the taxes?
BELLS I have no idea .
DeGRAWs You have the County and the Town . but they are not working together .
Y
-J
PUBLIC HEARING ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS -4- June 4 , 1985
SHURTLEFF : Thatts the only tillable land up there .
BELL : The reason you had it surveyed out was to get 200 feet on the
road?
SHURTLEFF : Mr . Griep agreed to sell 200 foot frontage and tillable field .
He wants to kusp the rest of it . He does not intend to sell the
wooded portion . The wanted something they could make pasture
out of .
BELLS Mr . Osmeloski is not here tonight?
SHURTLEFFs I have a letter from his attorney that in ; essence says if they
are granted this variance they will go through with the purchase .
It scared him when he did not - get his permit . By then spent
quite a lot .of" Mr . and Mrs . Griepfs money .
BELL : The problem I have is the placement of .the trailer he wants to
put there .
OFNER : I have questioi in reference to the frontage . In additon to the
description of the frontage in the Ordinance there is also a
- - " - diagram of frontage , the diagram designed as a line . It shows
one line . Has anyone in any town legal consultant been quarried
about this? Hss the Town Attorney b',sen . querried1whether the _ . -
_ it is shown in the diagram of way ' s line is versus two
lines , which would be in this case? _
WOOD : Yes , the Town . attorney has been consulted and he is of the opinion
it has to be continuous .
BELL : Who is the attorney who agreed with Mr . Shurtleff?
SHURTLEFF : John and Frank Albanese law firm . He agreed with Mr . Woods
interpretation ,, He agreed before we spent money on a survey ,
If we had not that opinion of his , we would not have proceeded .
OFNER : Did the Town Attorney give you. , his opinion in writing?
WOOD : No , nor did I ask for one .
SHURTLEFF : We would not be here if I did not honestly believe we were
all right . To be fair to everybody I ask you to grant the variance .
BELLS From what I car see we may grant the varianceekmtx 'not grant the
variance as far: as frontage concerned for Mr . Griep . As far
as placement of the trailer I ' m not sure whether we can agree
on that at thie: point .
SHURTLEFF : We can leave. that to the Health Department and as long as set
back from ' the property line . .
PUBLIC HEARING ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS - 2- June 4 , 1985
is the fair thing is to grant the variance ' and I hope you will
do it . I think we all hope to be used in a fair manner .
There seems to be some doubt in the neighbors minds about the
survay . I would like to say that before the land is conveyed
the line will be corrected to its proper place . Milt DeGraw
says the line should be 9 foot further east . That the most
westerly line is 9 foot too far to the west . The distance
will be the same even though you move the map 9 feet sideways .
BELLS It does not affect the frontage?
SHURTLEFFs No .
DeGRAWs It affects ay frontage . The west line does not follow the
military lire .
OFNERs That would cut 9 feet off your lot ?
DeGRAWs I have a house and farm and field there . I talked to the surveyers
and told them they were 9 feet short . They agreed they were 9
feet off . I asked them about it and they have not gotten back
to me . I want my 9 feet back . It is either in my neighbor ' s
yard west of me or also into Mr . Sutlifffs '!. It is Just not a
proper refer3nce .
-- OFNERs -- - - - - - -You are saying it should be 9 feet "over into the property we are
looking at n3w? -
DeGRAWs I have an abstract ; I have been surveyed . To "the west side of me
there are t* 3 different military lines that have gotten crossed
over .
SHURTLEFFs Before any conveyance of property is made , we will be sure the
lines are correct . It would not affect the question we are
debating heret . The whole map would be moved 9 feet to the east .
OFNERs You are saying it would compress the present 114 feet ?
BELLS What you are saying is it would go 9 feet into the Sutliff
property?
SUTLIFFs I understood the hedgerow between DeGraw and Our side was the
boundary between the two properties . When , they surveyed , I noticed
the stack was into my prrperty . I lost 9 or 10 feet on the east ,
which made the lot in between my trailer and the next one down
farther . -
SHURTLEFFs As I see it , it is 9 foot too far west ; need to go 9 foot to
the west .
PUBLIC HEARING ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS - 6- June 4 , 1985
pay them and be sure they undetstand everything . Let him sell
the land with conditions not build withing the 114 foot . width .
Give him the variance so he can move the land and recoup his
money .
BELLS The variance will be for a variance on the frontage , only .
DeGRAW : I like to know what will happen with the measurmsnt . Will that
114 feet become 103 feet? If everybody is moved over 9 feet
the other lot should be too . At one point in time the stack
in culvert was moved and the surveyors were taking that as
the stack from the corner east . If that is true you still have
114 feet . but as it stands today I got 9 feet leas . In my
abstract it goes by center of Sincerbeaux ' Rd . and also military
lot line , they are not together anymore , iThe center of Sincerbeaux
Rd . comes into my neighbors backyard . As ' you me, :sure from there
that the way the line feeds . For some reason thi :y refused to
measure from the military lot line . Mr . Shurtle • 'f keeps saying
they are coming to see me .
SHURTLEFF : There will be no land to convey until the lines ; ire determined
right . Going to remo_v_e_linee 9 feet east " from what the map --
shows . Everybody will be moved 9 feet and the 114 feet will
still be. there .
-- - - :.- - BELL : As far as'--the legal survey and -abstract , - - we cannot become involved - -
in We can grant variances .
DECKER : They will still have 114 feet to work with .
OFNER : It appears-to—me , the 114 feet and 109 feet , if he builds not
in there , it in effect would be a big right of way . Nine feet
is not a significant problem in 114 foot right of way .
SHURTLEFF : He will have to be back of the line . If he positions it on• •
the survey where he does there he won ' t be in the 114 foot strip .
L . GRIEP : I would like to state the whole intent of my father was to out
down on his tax burden , that is the reason to sell the property .
This is the only open piece to sell to cut down his tax burden .
One reason he plans to reture and he would like to cut down
on his tax burden . Otherwise he won ' t be , able to pay his taxes .
OeGRAW : Like Lacey says , if the Town disapproves so you could not build
in there , they could go to the County fora decrease in lot
taxes . Why can the County refuse not to lower the -taxes?
BELL : I have no idea .
DeGRAW : You have the County and the Town . but theylars not working together .
PUBLIC HEARING ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS -4 - June 4 , 1985
SHURTLEFF : That ' s the only tillable land up there .
BELL : The reason you had it surveyed out was to get 200 feet on the
road?
SHURTLEFF : Mr . Griep agreed to sell 200 foot frontage and tillable field .
He wants to keep the rest of it . He does not intend to sell the
wooded portion . The wanted something they could make pasture
out of *
BELL : Mr . Osmeloski is not here tonight ?
SHURTLEFF : I have a letter from his attorney that in e3sence says if they
are granted this variance they will go throjgh with the purchase .
It scared him when he did not - get his perm'i : . By then spent
quite a lot of Mr . and Mrs . Griep ' s money.
BELL : The problem I have is the placement of .the - ; railer he wants to
put ' there .
OFNER : _ I have question in reference to the frontage . In additon to the
description of the frontage in the Ordinance ► there is also a
diagram of' frontage , - the diagram designed a: i a line . It shows
one line . Has anyone in any town legal con, iultant been quarried
about this? - - Has the Town Attorney been quer •ried whether the � 1
iine._as it is shown in the . disgram . of way a line is versus two- - ;
lines , which would be - in this case?
WOOD : Yes , the Town Attorney has been consulted and he is of the opinion
it has to be continuous .
BELL : Who is the attorney who agreed with Mr . Shur•tleff?
SHURTLEFF : John and Frank Albanese law firm . He agreed with Mr . Woods
interpretation , He agreed before we spent, money on a survey ,
If we had not that opinion of his , we would not have proceeded .
OFNER : Did the Town Attorney give you; ihis opinion in writing?
WOOD : No , nor did I ask for one .
SHURTLEFF : We would not be here if I did not honestly believe we were
all right . To be fair to everybody I ask you to grant the variance .
BELL : From what I can see we may grant the varianc3 ; Wwkxxwt grant the
variance as far as frontage concerned for , her . - Griep . As far
as placement of the trailer I ' m not sure whether we can agree
on that at this point .
SHURTLEFF : We can leave. that to the Health Department and as long as set
back from the property line . .
PUBLIC BEARING ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS - Z- June 4 , 1985
is the fair thing is to grant the variarce and I hope you will
do it . I think we all hope to be used in a fair manner .
There seems to be some doubt in the neic; hbors minds about the
survay . I would like to say that before the land is conveyed
the line will be corrected to its proper place . Milt DeGraw
says the line should be 9 foot further east . That the most
westerly line is 9 foot too far to the Wiest . The distance
will be the same even though you move the map 9 feet sideways .
BELL = It does not affect the frontage?
SHURTLEFF : No .
DeGRAW : It affects my frontage . The west line does not follow the
military line .
OFNERs That would cut 9 feet off your lot ?
DeGRAW : I have a house and farm and field there . I talked to the surveyers
and told them they were 9 feet short . T 'iey agreed they were 9
feet - off . I asked them about it and they have not gotten back A,
to--me---I--went-my 9 feet back . It is either in my neighbor ' s
yard west of me or else into Mr . Sutliff ' s . It is Just not a
proper reference .
- - - OFNERs You are saying it should - be - -9' -feet over . into the property 'we are
looking at now?
DeGRAW : I have an abstract ; I have been surveyed , lTo the west side of , me
there are two different military lines that have gotten crossed
over .
SHURTLEFF : Before any conveyance of property is made , ' we will be sure the
lines are correct . It would not affect the question we are
debating here . The whole map would be moved 9 feet to the east .
OFNER : You are saying it would compress the present 114 feet ?
BELLS What you are saying is it would go 9 feet into the Sutliff
property?
SUTLIFF : I understood the hedgerow between DeGraw and Our side was the
boundary between the two properties . When :, they surveyed , I noticed
the stack was into my perperty . I lost 9 or 10 feet on the east ,
which made the lot in between my trailer and the next one down
farther .
SHURTLEFFs As I see it , it is 9 foot too far west ; reed to go 9 foot to
the wast .