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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1972-01-05 1e GROTON TOWN PLANNING BOARD MEETING . Wednesday , January 5 , 1972 8 : 10 P . M . - 9 : 15 P . M , PRESENT : G . Totman Z . Kane D . Payne R . Gleason F . Scheffler G . Totman : There ' s really not an awful lot to do tonight because of the fact that the zoning ordinance is in limbo - - the Town Board has it and have accepted it and they have set Monday night , January 17th , for a special meeting to deal with the Highway Department Union and setting the date for the public hearing for the zoning ordinance so , until then , we won ' t know when the public hearing will be but I felt we should still meet tonight as it is the night for our regularly scheduled meeting and have three reasons , - - to get acquainted with our new board member , Don Payne, to elect a new chairman to replace Hicks Dow , and to dis - cuss some of the things we should be planning on doing from this point on . • Once the zoning ordinance is enforced , the Board of Appeals will handle most of the complaints but , in many cases , if they have problems they will want to meet with us , before they start off on their journey of appeals , to get some kind of background on the ordinance and some of the reasons why it ' s there . Z°, Kane : It will be rather hard on them , won ' t it ? G . Totman : Yes , it will , and that is why I thought we should meet tonight , Also I talked to Zana earlier tonight , - - one of the things I feel we have to do is to make a land - use map . Other zoning boards and planning boards I ' ve talked to said that was the first thing they did and so all their deliberations and thoughts , from that point on , were related back to the map . We have not made one but I understand that Tom Niederkorn has made one but I haven ' t seen it and am sure none of you have seen it . R . Gleason : I thought we had one . Z . Kane : He ' s talking about one with every house , etc , on it and so on . • R . Gleason : There ' s a map the Extension people have it with a lot of background on it . G . Totman : I have some ideas on how we should make it . It should - 1 - • pertain to the way the Town of Groton is . Some discussion was held on this subject by Z . Kane , R . Gleason , G . Totman and others . G . Totman : Before we get into that , we should elect a new chairman and we normally have had a chairman and a vice -chairman so what we have to do is elect a new chairman and either go with that or elect a vice - chairman from now until the 1st of April when we have our annual election . Z . Kane : I move we railroad you ( George Totman ) into being chair - man and elect a vice -chairman . Some discussion was held on this by R . Gleason , Z . Kane and others . Z . Kane : I move we autom atically raise George Totman to chairman since he was vice -chairman , or do we have to vote on this ? R , Gleason : All I ' m thinking of is , is it legal ? Maybe it is , if George relinquishes the vice -chairmanship . More discussion was held on this by F . Scheffler , Z . Kane and others . • Z . Kane : I move that George Totman be advanced automatically to chairman since he is vice -chairman of the Board now . R . Gleason : I second the motion . G . Totman : Mr . Scheffler , will you chair the motion ? F . Scheffler : Are there any other motions ? All in favor aye , opposed ? Motion carried . The motion was carried unanimously . G . Totman : Now you have to elect a vice - chairman or wait until April . Z . Kane : It would be nice if we have a vice -chairman in case you can ' t be here . G . Totman : I ' d like to suggest Ron Cotanch be the vice -chairman . Z . Kane : That ' s a good idea . F . Scheffler : I make that a formal motion . Z . Kane : I second the motion . • G . Totman : Is there anybody opposed ? If not , Ron Cotanch is auto - matically vice - chairman . I have some things to hand out to you - - these are the 2 - • minutes of the September 20th joint meeting we had with the Town Board . These are for your information . Now these are the minutes of our last meeting . Now , in all fairness to Josephine , these look like hers but they are not . She was not at our last meeting so I took the minutes so you will have to bear with me if there are any mistakes . Since none of you were at this meeting , except Frank and I , I will wait a few minutes and let you read them over to see what we did at that last meeting . Let ' s approve the minutes of the meeting or disapprove them now that you ' ve all read them . I will entertain a motion to approve or disapprove . F . Scheffler : I move the minutes be approved as written . Z . Kane : I second the motion . Motion carried . G . Totman : O . K . they are passed , - -right ? Are there any questions that anybody has on what we have • done or should have done , or whatever , before we get started on anything else ? I have here the final draft of the zoning ordinance that was presented to the Town Board . It ' s almost identical to the one you now have except for a couple of pages that were changed and put in this one so I suggest we throw the other one away , and I also have enough copies for every - body else on the Planning Board . (Mr . Totman passed copies out to all those present . ) I have been thinking a lot about this land use map and also in the mao that is at the back of this book , - . I don ' t think we should do anything or say anything until the Town Board presents this to the people and get it passed , so the question I would have right away , if I were somebody , is what is the scale of those zones as to property lines . These are things we will have problems with afterwards . I think we should be aware of these things and be thinking strongly of them because if this Board of Zoning Appeals is anything like I would be , if I was a member on it , I would go to two or three meetings with the Planning Board to go over this thing and discuss it and understand it because I don ' t know how ( as a member • of the Board of Appeals ) I could enforce something I have no knowledge of . Also , thinking in the same light , we are responsible for - 3 - Y subdivisions that are a separate part of the zoning ordinance . If we , say , are holding our meeting tonight and a developer comes in and says here ' s my preliminary plan for the subdivision plat , I ' m submitting it for your inspection or approval or whatever - - what are we going to do about it ? I think we should have a really detailed map like the overlay Dan Carey did on farms , and another overlay would be where the businesses are in the Town as well as houses , so that when someone comes in we should be able to flip our map down and see boundary lines of houses , etc . and quickly get a good idea of what the area is like . Z . Kane : Do you hire someone to do that , or what ? G . Totman : I can do the preliminary sketches on that . You fill them in from the tax maps , property maps and what -have -you . Z . Kane : That ' s alright , - - it ' s a good idea . We have to have something like that . F . Scheffler : How would you do it , - from an air photo ? G . Totman : I think we can get almost all that stuff from the County Board of Assessors . Some discussion was held on this subject by all and it was suggested that the County Planning Board be contacted . Mr . Totman then passed out a page with some of his thoughts as to the value and preparation of a land use map ( a copy of which is attached and made a part of these minutes . ) Some discussion was held on what type of map Tom Nieder - korn had made in respect to this subject and whether it would be adequate or not . His map was unavailable for the meeting tonight as he needed it for some final work for the public hearing . G . Totman : Well , I made that sheet up as I can put something in words better on paper than I can talk so that ' s the reason I drew this page up and I do feel there is a great need for this thing . Now , maybe Tom Niederkorn ' s map will do , - - we ' ll take what he has and look it over and maybe we ' ll have to add to it but I think it should be of a size that we can put up on an easel here and when anyone comes in we can look at it and get a good picture of what we are talk- ing about . It hasn ' t happened yet and we have been very fortunate since we put this subdivision section in . If you read it over , you ' ll be awfully glad we haven ' t had the problem yet . At the last Planning Board meeting Hicks asked our members - 4 - 'The following are some thoughts as to the value and preparation of a • Land - Use Map . The land - use map is one of the basic tools of the Planning Board . A land -use map is made from field notes , maps , and all other information available . In observing land use in the Town , we should list all the activities being carried on for each parcel , not just the principle use . An example would be the use of a lot for family dwelling as well as used for business . It would also be important to obtain the number of families for which each dwelling is designed , so that an accurate picture of the residential uses in the Town can be brought into focus . we should also use care in identifying the business uses carried on in dwellings , such as professional offices , home occupations , and other businesses . Commerical uses should be recorded in a manner that will permit their being classified as retail , wholesale , general , or automotive . Industrial uses should be classified according to their general impact on surrounding areas , light industries , general industry , obnoxious industry or some other significant type . All uses should be recorded . in a manner that shows how much of the land is actually devoted to the particular use . For example , the farm home • is usually classified as a residential use , farm land is active production as an agricultural use , and other areas on the farm as vacant land . The following lasts suggests categories , symbols , and colors which can be used as a guide . Black White Type of Use hotter Color _ Pattern A Uri cul tore A L ij1§ 11 t Grc:". ere 5c . c L terc d Dots Residence Iz Yellow Dots Business B Red Cross Hatch Industry -[ Purple I:; lC-:c c k Parkas , PlayVA:rOc,u'cd 1' ( ; .r. ocn I ' i c c I ' ,,c t• t: er n Public Iiuildi. ii {))- s ) P , S Blue L, i. uUs Schools ) Vacant V I Wh .i. 1; e 131. an1;. A Land - Use .Mop :is it valUOI) . e I 'Ccord (_) Y flea cx_ist i u ,� S :i. t,.Ua. tion ; • thought should be given to preparing it in a way that will permit copies to be made . GLT : bw — 1 / 4 / 72 • to submit names to him of people we felt would make good members of the Board of Appeals . The Board of Appeals has to be appointed by the Town Board at the same time , or right after , they accept the zoning ordinance , so about the only way they can do that is to have the names pretty well checked out so that the night they vote it in they can also vote on the names for the Board of Appeals . They would like to have us submit names to them on people that we feel and know they will accept . Z . Kane : And people that know a little something about it -that either went to some of those meetings - - G . Totman : That ' s true but they can learn if they are interested . The Board of Appeals is the board with the power . They can make or break a zoning ordinance in not understand - ing it or making mistakes so they set precedences . Z . Kane : How many are on the Board of Appeals ? G . Totmano I think it ' s five . They have authority to make people testify under oath or to hold public hearings and to • grant things , - - in a sense if they get too carried away they can throw the whole thing out . That is why towns have had to rewrite them due to the Board of Appeals setting too many precedences . Z . Kane : And problems might come up that we didn ' t foresee in writing up the ordinance . G . Totman : That ' s right . In reading the paper and talking to other members of planning boards in other towns , I found that , in many cases , they have been asked after the zoning ordinance has been put into effect , to restudy certain areas of it because of the fact it has created problems in certain cases . This is happening in Ithaca right now with regard to their signs . They turn it back to the planning board who redrafts it . These are things that could happen here depending on the Town Board . Z . Kane : Didn ' t somebody say you don ' t plan on it lasting more than 5 years ? Some discussion was held on this by all . G . Totman : If any of you know of anybody - - Frank submitted the name of George Lawrence and it is being held in con- sideration , R . Gleason : I talked to Hicks last night on the telephone and I suggested Joe Wargo and Floyd Fouts . - 5 - • G . Totman : I know also that the names of Mrs . Joseph Volpicelli and Richard Bell (he ' s from McLean) have been submitted to them . G . Gleason : I also suggested Helen DeMond . G . Totman : Don , - - do you have any questions , - - anything I can help you with ? D . Payne : I think I would like to read through the minutes of the past meetings and familiarize myself with the zoning ordinance . G . Totman : At the Town Board meeting the other night , there was a fellow in complaining about the lack of enforcement of the swimming pool ordinance and from that they went into the lack of enforcement of the mobile homes and junkyards ' ordinances and the junkyards got quite a bit of discussion at that meeting . Hicks said that all of the known junk- yards in the Town have now received a written form letter telling them they have so many days to comply . The last one to receive the notice was the one on the Cortland - Groton Road , : Lafayette Corners , and they didn ' t get their letter until January 3rd of this year . • Z . Kane : How long do they give them , - - a reasonable amount of time ? G . Totman : They have been notified - - they had applied for a license before and knew they were turned down . So now the problem is they have to get the cars out of sight . They don ' t have the approval to have them there . They are in viola - tion and have known it since last summer . I think it is encouraging to know they are doing something and I think it ' s good to have people come in and complain rather than for us to complain to the Town Board . F . Scheffler : Has anybody complied with the junkyard ordinance at all ? G . Totman : Not to my knowledge . Z . Kane : Nobody will , until somebody else does . R . Gleason : A few places I think have moved things out of sight . More discussion was held on this by F . Scheffler , G . Totman , R . Gleason and others . G . Totman : If nobody has anything else to bring up tonight , I have nothing more . I would like to have had the information Tom Niederkorn has but , I understand , when he presents • the final package at the public hearing then we will get from his whatever he has made up of the general town plan that we have been discussing all this time , with all the information he has been showing at the special meetings and that will be what has the maps in it and we may find them adequate . - 6 • More discussion washeld el on this by a11 . Z . Kane : When is our next meeting ? G . Totman : The Town Board has Monday night of the 17th as their special meeting and will set the date for the public hearing for the zoning ordinance and I can ' t urge everybody strongly enough to go to the public hear - ing . That ' s where you ' ll find out how the people feel . In general , of all the public hearings we have had , everybody - - I would say 95% , - - has been in favor of it . The only one where " people were really against what was going on was the mobile home public hearing the Town Board held last summer . Z . Kane : That was treading on too many toes , I guess . G . Totman : I think it ' s reassuring to the Town Board if the people that drew the ordinance up are there . Now we normally have held meetings the first and third Wednesdays of each month . I really feel that we might be spinning our wheels in trying to hold a meeting the third Wednesday of this month as we won ' t know what the Town Board is doing with the zoning ordinance , so it would be my suggestion that we wait and meet the first Wednesday of February ( that would be the 2nd ) and by then we should know what the Town Board is going to do . F . Scheffler : I move that from this point on we meet on the first Wednesday of every month and , then , when we feel it necessary to meet on the third Wednesday of each month , our secretary will phone and advise all the members of this fact . R . Gleason : I second the motion . The motion. swas carried . R . Gleason : One thing that is bothering me a little bit . I happened to be talking to Alton Reid of the Dryden Planning Board and in reading through this thing , the intent is to help development and to help protect but the way I read it , there isn ' t any protection for the farmer in here . Say , there was a person came in and put in a housing development somewhere down the line below me for instance and knows I ' m up there farming with manure smells • and so on , - - there isn ' t anything in here that says that I ' m protected because I ' m there first . Some discussion was held on this by F . Scheffler , G . Totman , Z . Kane and R . Gleason . - 7 - 0 A • G . Totman ; I ' ll entertain a motion to adjourn . R . Gleason : I move that we adjourn . D . Payne * I second the motion . Motion carried . The meeting was adjourned at 9 * 15 P . M. The next meeting is to be held February 2 , 1972 at 8 * 00 P . M. in the Town Hall . Respectfully submitted , Josephine Bell - 8 -