HomeMy WebLinkAbout1972-01-05 1e
GROTON TOWN PLANNING BOARD MEETING
. Wednesday , January 5 , 1972
8 : 10 P . M . - 9 : 15 P . M ,
PRESENT : G . Totman
Z . Kane
D . Payne
R . Gleason
F . Scheffler
G . Totman : There ' s really not an awful lot to do tonight because of
the fact that the zoning ordinance is in limbo - - the
Town Board has it and have accepted it and they have set
Monday night , January 17th , for a special meeting to deal
with the Highway Department Union and setting the date
for the public hearing for the zoning ordinance so , until
then , we won ' t know when the public hearing will be but I
felt we should still meet tonight as it is the night for
our regularly scheduled meeting and have three reasons , - -
to get acquainted with our new board member , Don Payne,
to elect a new chairman to replace Hicks Dow , and to dis -
cuss some of the things we should be planning on doing
from this point on .
• Once the zoning ordinance is enforced , the Board of Appeals
will handle most of the complaints but , in many cases , if
they have problems they will want to meet with us , before
they start off on their journey of appeals , to get some
kind of background on the ordinance and some of the reasons
why it ' s there .
Z°, Kane : It will be rather hard on them , won ' t it ?
G . Totman : Yes , it will , and that is why I thought we should meet
tonight , Also I talked to Zana earlier tonight , - - one
of the things I feel we have to do is to make a land -
use map . Other zoning boards and planning boards I ' ve
talked to said that was the first thing they did and so
all their deliberations and thoughts , from that point on ,
were related back to the map .
We have not made one but I understand that Tom Niederkorn
has made one but I haven ' t seen it and am sure none of you
have seen it .
R . Gleason : I thought we had one .
Z . Kane : He ' s talking about one with every house , etc , on it and so
on .
• R . Gleason : There ' s a map the Extension people have it with a lot of
background on it .
G . Totman : I have some ideas on how we should make it . It should
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• pertain to the way the Town of Groton is .
Some discussion was held on this subject by Z . Kane ,
R . Gleason , G . Totman and others .
G . Totman : Before we get into that , we should elect a new chairman
and we normally have had a chairman and a vice -chairman
so what we have to do is elect a new chairman and either
go with that or elect a vice - chairman from now until the
1st of April when we have our annual election .
Z . Kane : I move we railroad you ( George Totman ) into being chair -
man and elect a vice -chairman .
Some discussion was held on this by R . Gleason , Z . Kane
and others .
Z . Kane : I move we autom atically raise George Totman to chairman
since he was vice -chairman , or do we have to vote on this ?
R , Gleason : All I ' m thinking of is , is it legal ? Maybe it is , if
George relinquishes the vice -chairmanship .
More discussion was held on this by F . Scheffler ,
Z . Kane and others .
• Z . Kane : I move that George Totman be advanced automatically to
chairman since he is vice -chairman of the Board now .
R . Gleason : I second the motion .
G . Totman : Mr . Scheffler , will you chair the motion ?
F . Scheffler : Are there any other motions ? All in favor aye , opposed ?
Motion carried .
The motion was carried unanimously .
G . Totman : Now you have to elect a vice - chairman or wait until April .
Z . Kane : It would be nice if we have a vice -chairman in case you
can ' t be here .
G . Totman : I ' d like to suggest Ron Cotanch be the vice -chairman .
Z . Kane : That ' s a good idea .
F . Scheffler : I make that a formal motion .
Z . Kane : I second the motion .
• G . Totman : Is there anybody opposed ? If not , Ron Cotanch is auto -
matically vice - chairman .
I have some things to hand out to you - - these are the
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• minutes of the September 20th joint meeting we had
with the Town Board . These are for your information .
Now these are the minutes of our last meeting . Now ,
in all fairness to Josephine , these look like hers but
they are not . She was not at our last meeting so I
took the minutes so you will have to bear with me if
there are any mistakes . Since none of you were at this
meeting , except Frank and I , I will wait a few minutes
and let you read them over to see what we did at that
last meeting .
Let ' s approve the minutes of the meeting or disapprove
them now that you ' ve all read them . I will entertain a
motion to approve or disapprove .
F . Scheffler : I move the minutes be approved as written .
Z . Kane : I second the motion .
Motion carried .
G . Totman : O . K . they are passed , - -right ?
Are there any questions that anybody has on what we have
• done or should have done , or whatever , before we get
started on anything else ?
I have here the final draft of the zoning ordinance that
was presented to the Town Board . It ' s almost identical
to the one you now have except for a couple of pages
that were changed and put in this one so I suggest we throw
the other one away , and I also have enough copies for every -
body else on the Planning Board .
(Mr . Totman passed copies out to all those present . )
I have been thinking a lot about this land use map and
also in the mao that is at the back of this book , - . I
don ' t think we should do anything or say anything until
the Town Board presents this to the people and get it
passed , so the question I would have right away , if I
were somebody , is what is the scale of those zones as to
property lines . These are things we will have problems
with afterwards . I think we should be aware of these
things and be thinking strongly of them because if this
Board of Zoning Appeals is anything like I would be , if I
was a member on it , I would go to two or three meetings
with the Planning Board to go over this thing and discuss
it and understand it because I don ' t know how ( as a member
• of the Board of Appeals ) I could enforce something I have
no knowledge of .
Also , thinking in the same light , we are responsible for
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subdivisions that are a separate part of the zoning
ordinance . If we , say , are holding our meeting tonight
and a developer comes in and says here ' s my preliminary
plan for the subdivision plat , I ' m submitting it for your
inspection or approval or whatever - - what are we going
to do about it ? I think we should have a really detailed
map like the overlay Dan Carey did on farms , and another
overlay would be where the businesses are in the Town as
well as houses , so that when someone comes in we should be
able to flip our map down and see boundary lines of
houses , etc . and quickly get a good idea of what the area
is like .
Z . Kane : Do you hire someone to do that , or what ?
G . Totman : I can do the preliminary sketches on that . You fill them
in from the tax maps , property maps and what -have -you .
Z . Kane : That ' s alright , - - it ' s a good idea . We have to have
something like that .
F . Scheffler : How would you do it , - from an air photo ?
G . Totman : I think we can get almost all that stuff from the County
Board of Assessors .
Some discussion was held on this subject by all and it
was suggested that the County Planning Board be contacted .
Mr . Totman then passed out a page with some of his thoughts
as to the value and preparation of a land use map ( a copy
of which is attached and made a part of these minutes . )
Some discussion was held on what type of map Tom Nieder -
korn had made in respect to this subject and whether it
would be adequate or not . His map was unavailable for
the meeting tonight as he needed it for some final work
for the public hearing .
G . Totman : Well , I made that sheet up as I can put something in words
better on paper than I can talk so that ' s the reason I
drew this page up and I do feel there is a great need for
this thing . Now , maybe Tom Niederkorn ' s map will do , - -
we ' ll take what he has and look it over and maybe we ' ll
have to add to it but I think it should be of a size that
we can put up on an easel here and when anyone comes in we
can look at it and get a good picture of what we are talk-
ing about . It hasn ' t happened yet and we have been very
fortunate since we put this subdivision section in . If
you read it over , you ' ll be awfully glad we haven ' t had
the problem yet .
At the last Planning Board meeting Hicks asked our members
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'The following are some thoughts as to the value and preparation of a
• Land - Use Map .
The land - use map is one of the basic tools of the Planning
Board . A land -use map is made from field notes , maps , and
all other information available . In observing land use in
the Town , we should list all the activities being carried
on for each parcel , not just the principle use . An example
would be the use of a lot for family dwelling as well as
used for business . It would also be important to obtain
the number of families for which each dwelling is designed ,
so that an accurate picture of the residential uses in the
Town can be brought into focus . we should also use care
in identifying the business uses carried on in dwellings ,
such as professional offices , home occupations , and other
businesses .
Commerical uses should be recorded in a manner that will
permit their being classified as retail , wholesale , general ,
or automotive . Industrial uses should be classified
according to their general impact on surrounding areas ,
light industries , general industry , obnoxious industry or
some other significant type . All uses should be recorded .
in a manner that shows how much of the land is actually
devoted to the particular use . For example , the farm home
• is usually classified as a residential use , farm land is
active production as an agricultural use , and other areas
on the farm as vacant land .
The following lasts suggests categories , symbols , and
colors which can be used as a guide .
Black White
Type of Use hotter Color _ Pattern
A Uri cul tore A L ij1§ 11 t Grc:". ere 5c . c L terc d Dots
Residence Iz Yellow Dots
Business B Red Cross Hatch
Industry -[ Purple I:; lC-:c c k
Parkas , PlayVA:rOc,u'cd 1' ( ; .r. ocn I ' i c c I ' ,,c t• t: er n
Public Iiuildi. ii {))- s ) P , S Blue L, i. uUs
Schools )
Vacant V I Wh .i. 1; e 131. an1;.
A Land - Use .Mop :is it valUOI) . e I 'Ccord (_) Y flea cx_ist i u ,� S :i. t,.Ua. tion ;
• thought should be given to preparing it in a way that will
permit copies to be made .
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• to submit names to him of people we felt would make
good members of the Board of Appeals .
The Board of Appeals has to be appointed by the Town
Board at the same time , or right after , they accept
the zoning ordinance , so about the only way they can
do that is to have the names pretty well checked out
so that the night they vote it in they can also vote
on the names for the Board of Appeals .
They would like to have us submit names to them on
people that we feel and know they will accept .
Z . Kane : And people that know a little something about it -that either went to some of those meetings - -
G . Totman : That ' s true but they can learn if they are interested .
The Board of Appeals is the board with the power . They
can make or break a zoning ordinance in not understand -
ing it or making mistakes so they set precedences .
Z . Kane : How many are on the Board of Appeals ?
G . Totmano I think it ' s five . They have authority to make people
testify under oath or to hold public hearings and to
• grant things , - - in a sense if they get too carried away
they can throw the whole thing out . That is why towns
have had to rewrite them due to the Board of Appeals
setting too many precedences .
Z . Kane : And problems might come up that we didn ' t foresee in
writing up the ordinance .
G . Totman : That ' s right . In reading the paper and talking to other
members of planning boards in other towns , I found that ,
in many cases , they have been asked after the zoning
ordinance has been put into effect , to restudy certain
areas of it because of the fact it has created problems
in certain cases . This is happening in Ithaca right now
with regard to their signs . They turn it back to the
planning board who redrafts it . These are things that
could happen here depending on the Town Board .
Z . Kane : Didn ' t somebody say you don ' t plan on it lasting more than
5 years ?
Some discussion was held on this by all .
G . Totman : If any of you know of anybody - - Frank submitted the
name of George Lawrence and it is being held in con-
sideration ,
R . Gleason : I talked to Hicks last night on the telephone and I suggested
Joe Wargo and Floyd Fouts .
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• G . Totman : I know also that the names of Mrs . Joseph
Volpicelli and Richard Bell (he ' s from
McLean) have been submitted to them .
G . Gleason : I also suggested Helen DeMond .
G . Totman : Don , - - do you have any questions , - - anything I
can help you with ?
D . Payne : I think I would like to read through the minutes
of the past meetings and familiarize myself with
the zoning ordinance .
G . Totman : At the Town Board meeting the other night , there was a
fellow in complaining about the lack of enforcement of
the swimming pool ordinance and from that they went into
the lack of enforcement of the mobile homes and junkyards '
ordinances and the junkyards got quite a bit of discussion
at that meeting . Hicks said that all of the known junk-
yards in the Town have now received a written form letter
telling them they have so many days to comply . The last
one to receive the notice was the one on the Cortland - Groton
Road , : Lafayette Corners , and they didn ' t get their letter
until January 3rd of this year .
• Z . Kane : How long do they give them , - - a reasonable amount of time ?
G . Totman : They have been notified - - they had applied for a license
before and knew they were turned down . So now the problem
is they have to get the cars out of sight . They don ' t
have the approval to have them there . They are in viola -
tion and have known it since last summer . I think it is
encouraging to know they are doing something and I think
it ' s good to have people come in and complain rather than
for us to complain to the Town Board .
F . Scheffler : Has anybody complied with the junkyard ordinance at all ?
G . Totman : Not to my knowledge .
Z . Kane : Nobody will , until somebody else does .
R . Gleason : A few places I think have moved things out of sight .
More discussion was held on this by F . Scheffler , G .
Totman , R . Gleason and others .
G . Totman : If nobody has anything else to bring up tonight , I have
nothing more . I would like to have had the information
Tom Niederkorn has but , I understand , when he presents
• the final package at the public hearing then we will get
from his whatever he has made up of the general town plan
that we have been discussing all this time , with all the
information he has been showing at the special meetings
and that will be what has the maps in it and we may find
them adequate .
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• More discussion washeld
el on this by a11 .
Z . Kane : When is our next meeting ?
G . Totman : The Town Board has Monday night of the 17th as their
special meeting and will set the date for the public
hearing for the zoning ordinance and I can ' t urge
everybody strongly enough to go to the public hear -
ing . That ' s where you ' ll find out how the people
feel .
In general , of all the public hearings we have had ,
everybody - - I would say 95% , - - has been in favor
of it . The only one where " people were really against
what was going on was the mobile home public hearing
the Town Board held last summer .
Z . Kane : That was treading on too many toes , I guess .
G . Totman : I think it ' s reassuring to the Town Board if the people
that drew the ordinance up are there .
Now we normally have held meetings the first and third
Wednesdays of each month . I really feel that we might
be spinning our wheels in trying to hold a meeting the
third Wednesday of this month as we won ' t know what the
Town Board is doing with the zoning ordinance , so it
would be my suggestion that we wait and meet the first
Wednesday of February ( that would be the 2nd ) and by
then we should know what the Town Board is going to do .
F . Scheffler : I move that from this point on we meet on the first
Wednesday of every month and , then , when we feel it
necessary to meet on the third Wednesday of each month ,
our secretary will phone and advise all the members of
this fact .
R . Gleason : I second the motion .
The motion. swas carried .
R . Gleason : One thing that is bothering me a little bit . I happened
to be talking to Alton Reid of the Dryden Planning
Board and in reading through this thing , the intent is
to help development and to help protect but the way I
read it , there isn ' t any protection for the farmer in
here . Say , there was a person came in and put in a
housing development somewhere down the line below me for
instance and knows I ' m up there farming with manure smells
• and so on , - - there isn ' t anything in here that says that
I ' m protected because I ' m there first .
Some discussion was held on this by F . Scheffler , G .
Totman , Z . Kane and R . Gleason .
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• G . Totman ; I ' ll entertain a motion to adjourn .
R . Gleason : I move that we adjourn .
D . Payne * I second the motion .
Motion carried .
The meeting was adjourned at 9 * 15 P . M. The next meeting is to be
held February 2 , 1972 at 8 * 00 P . M. in the Town Hall .
Respectfully submitted ,
Josephine Bell
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