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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1979-11-26 GROTON ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS MEETING Held in the Town Hall Groton , N . Y . Monday - November 26 , 1979 - 8 P . M . PRESENT : Gordon Hoy - Chairman Frank Pierson - Vice -Chairman Floyd Fouts Janet Bell Josephine Bell - Recording Clerk Mr . Hoy called the meeting to order at 8 P . M . for the purpose of making decisions on the two hearings held November 12th for Richard White and Ward Be Harrison . G . Hoy : In our rules and regulations here it says " the qualifications on voting on any public hearing that members may not vote unless they have attended the public hearing . However , where such members have familiarized themselves with the matter by reading the record they are then qualified to vote " , so now you may read the minutes and then you ' ll be qualified to vote . If you have any questions Frank and I were at the hearings . Mr . Hoy passed out minutes on the two hearings to all present . J . Bell : Can we do one first , and then the other one ? G . Hoy : Yes , I ' ll save that letter which pertains to the other one so we ' ll start with Francis White ' s . Are we ready to start ? J . Bell : 0 . K . G . Hoy : He wants to operate a motor vehicle repairs shop and acquired the land in August 1963 and started repair work in 1970 . J . Bell : This was all before the zoning . He has parking places , he has 36 acres , right ? G . Hoy : He said in the minutes he has 20 parking places and he is a certified mechanic . J . Bell : And he has been registered with the State of New York ? G . Hoy : Right . J . Bell : As far as I can see , I don ' t think you have too much choice but to grant him the motor vehicles repair shop . The junkyard is another thing . G . Hoy : The junkyard has nothing to do with us . J . Bell : He ' s going to have to apply again as far as that goes . - 1 - F . Pierson : If he keeps that up , you ' re right . G . Hoy : He has a junkyard license . ' J . Bell : He has a license for the junkyard already and has all his fences up and everything ? G . Hoy : Yes . Do you have anything to ask about this , Floyd ? F . Fouts : No . G . Hoy : Would someone like to make a motion , then? F . Pierson : I make the motion that we grant Francis White of 575 West Groton Road a special permit for a motor vehicle repair shop . F . Fouts : I second the motion . G . Hoy : It appears to meet all the qualifications in the application . F . Pierson : Right . G . Hoy : 0 . K . will have a roll call vote on that . Janet ? J . Bell - Yes . G . Hoy : Floyd ? F . Fouts : Yes , G . Hoy : Frank? F . Pierson: Yes . G . Hoy : And I ' ll vote yes as motion carried unanimously . Alright , now we have this other one for Ward Harrison of 1031 Cobb Street . Now in addition to the minutes that we already have there ' s a letter here to the previous owner Mr . Franklin Reed Bixler from Bob Brown , Zoning Enforcement Officer dated April 12 , 1978 with copies to Teresa Robinson - Town Supervisor and Ben Bucko an Town Attorney , Mr . Hoy read the letter aloud a copy of which is attached and made a part of these minutes . G . Hoy : Now are there any questions about this ? Now I don ' t know if this was brought out in the minutes either but Frank says since he ' s had the place he has cleaned up a lot of junk . J . Bell : What are you talking about here , the motor vehicle repair shop ? G . Hoy : Yes , that ' s all I ' m talking about . In granting this we have to look at the fact of what he has done , how he has cleaned up up a lot since he bought it . He had no one at the hearing to speak in his behalf but there was noone opposed to it . 2 - F . Pierson: My brother - in - law borders him and he isn ' t opposed to it . G . Hoy : That ' s Don Scheffler ? F . Pierson: Yes , J . Bell : Does he meet all the qualifications for a motor vehicle repair shop ? Is it for a motor vehicle repair shop or used cars ? F . Pierson : He has one for motor vehicle repair shop hanging up in his office . I saw it there this week -end . G . Hoy : He seemed very anxious to comply with all the requirements . Now he ' s one who has waited , he hasn ' t done anything . He ' s waited to see if he can be granted a permit before he does anything . J . Bell : As far as : the motorized vehicle repairs shop on fine but here again - - if you grant him that he ' s going against the requirements in the zoning by concurrently saying that yes you can have your used car dealership also . G . Hoy : But this was irun ; before zoning went into the picture , by Bixler . r J . Bell : When did he stop running it ? G . Hoy : This letter is dated April 12 , 1978 . J . Bell : When did he sell it to Harrison? G . Hoy : July 18 , 1979 . J . Bell : And he was running a used car business up until that time ? F . Pierson : He kept his license current . J . Bell : But was he actually running it ? F . Pierson: I don ' t think he was . J . Bell : Because I don ' t think he can have that used car dealership at all . G . Hoy : We don ' t know if Bob Brown , when he wrote this letter , was acting on the Town Board ' s behalf or what but I talked to Teresa and she said this letter is in the minutes of the Town Board ' s meeting . J . Bell : What letter ? You mean he read that into the minutes ? G . Hoy : That ' s what I assume . J . Bell : I don ' t think he had too much authority to do that because definitely used cars are out . They are not permitted in agricultural districts under any circumstances . G . Hoy : I would think that this would come under the same ruling that some of the other repair shopq , we have by -passed things that they have done 3 - G . Hoy : before they came in . J . Bell : Well , if he was actively engaged in it . G . Hoy : That ' s why that letter was here . J . Bell : And Ben got a copy of that and never made any notation on that at all ? G . Hoy : No . J . Bell : Anybody can get a license from New York State to sell used cars . Like he said O ' Brien has a license to sell used cars but that doesn ' t make any difference - - the State of New York doesn ' t care where you have it or whether your zoning agrees or not . So you grant him a repair shop - 0 . K . but he is not permitted to sell used cars . 0 . K . but you give him also a used car dealer - ship . You ' re contradicting yourself . G . Hoy : Not if we agree that this letter proves the carrying on of that business in that area . It was agreed upon before he bought it . J . Bell : What was his authority for saying that ? G . Hoy : It ' s in writing . We just have to assume he had the authority to do it . Do you want to see the letter ? J . Bell : No . I ' m talking about just plain authority . Where does it say you can sell one business to another person and that person can keep that business up ? F . Pierson : This is the place where Sherry O ' Brien was going to go so he could run this business . J . Bell : Yes , I saw that in the minutes . I just feel very strongly - - if he meets all of the requirements as far as the motorized vehicle repair shop goes - - fine , give him one . Used car dealership I think first off he shouldn ' t be making two applications concurrently . He should not be doing it concurrently but first off he can ' t really do it because it ' s not really permitted . G . Hoy : Yes , but it has been carried on all these years . J . Bell : Yes , by one person but I ' m not sure legally because of the change of ownership of the property - - I don ' t feel very comfortable saying yes you can do it without going into it thoroughly to see whether he can or not . G . Hoy : Why don ' t I give Roger Gleason a call and see how he feels about it ? J . Bell : I would rather have Ben ' s opinion because basically - - you- know . G . Hoy : Do you think I can get ahold of Ben , tonight ? F . Pierson: You might at his house . Ben received a copy of that letter . - 4 - J . Bell : I know , - - that ' s what I don ' t understand . Mr . Hoy went to phone Mr . Bucko and Janet Bell read through the zoning ordinance and saw something so told him not to bother . G . Hoy : What did you find ? J . Bell : "Non- conforming use rights subject to the provisions of this article , remain with the land when title is transferred . " G . Hoy : What section is that under ? J . Bell : Non-Conforming Uses 1300 . Alright - - was he actually selling cars or did he just keep his license ? G . Hoy : I assume there was a time - - because of the fact that Mr . Harrison has been waiting - - I assume there has been some sort of a time lapse . I don ' t know how long the previous owner - - but I assume that ' s what the letter was for to bring it into a conforming situation . Janet Bell reread the letter from Bob Brown to Mr . Bixler previously referred to in these minutes . G . Hoy : So , if Bixler carried on his business until the time of the sale - - F . Fouts : Did he have the right to sell cars before ? G . Hoy : Yes , because he started the business before the ordinance was in effect and continued it up until that time and now Mr . Harrison wants to carry on with the other business . How many cars for sale do they usually have up there ? 4 or 5 or more ? F . Pierson : I think Reed sold a lot of his through the auctions . G . Hoy : Where he had them parked , were they visible from the road ? F . Pierson: Well , - -yeah - - he had some at the side of the driveway . In fact for a time he had a sign out " Bixler ' s Used Cars . " J . Bell : He ' s not licensed with the State to sell used cars ? F . Pierson: I think that ' s why he wanted this settled b.efor.e � he makes that investment . G . Hoy : I can ' t understand why he didn ' t mention this letter the other night though because this is definitely in his favor . I would assume that before Bob wrote a letter like that he would have at least talked to the Town Board about it . J . Bell : I don ' t think you really have too much authority as long as he meets everything in the ordinance for a motorized vehicle repair shop ,- you have to grant it to him as long as he meets all the specifications . However - - used car dealer is - - I think it should be something separate . I think it should be a separate request . If you start 5 - J . Bell : going down the list of motorized vehicle repair shop requirements , - - obviously he has everything . He has the land , I guess he has the bays for the cars . I don ' t think it ' s applicable about the sign for used cars according to our zoning laws because even if it com - plies to the State of New York ' s it does not comply with our zoning laws . G . Hoy : Yeah . J . Bell 0 . K . - - " the applicant will not be permitted to purchase damaged vehicles , repair them and sell them " . Did this Reed Bixler have a repair shop also or was he just selling cars ? F . Pierson: He had a repair shop . J . Bell : Well , if you ' re going to sell used cars you have to have a repair shop . What about the other way around because you have a repair ship , do you have to sell used cars ? That ' s the only thing that bothers me . "No junk cars shall be kept on the premises for the purposes of obtaining parts . . . . " G . Hoy : He said he didn ' t have all the old cars picked up but he intended to . F . Pierson: He said he had 6 months to comply anyways . J . Bell : Well - - the ordinance - - I ' m assuming is the zoning ordinance . August 1978 On - O . K . so when would he comply with it ? It ' s 6 months from August 11 , 1978 - - from the time he applies for it . G . Hoy : That point was brought out before and I don ' t know . J . Bell : If they meant the application - - 6 months from the application - - 6 months from the time the person applied . G . Hoy : What you ' re saying then is anyone that applies now has to be in compliance when they apply ? J . Bell : If you go by this . If they don ' t mean the ordinance then I think they should say what they mean . G . Hoy : Definitely , F . Pierson: Yes , G . Hoy : Well , are we ready to give this one a vote or not ? J . Bell : Yeah , but before you vote on it I just think they should be two separate ones . I don ' t think you should combine them because you grant just one and he ' s not in compliance with one of them . G . Hoy : Do you still want me to call Ben ? J . Bell : I just feel if you grant him a motorized vehicle repair shop - - we ' re under an obligation to grant it as long as he complies with it but right here he is not complying with it so therefore I would think you would also have to do something about the junkyard before you can grant it ON On I think they should be two separate ones . If - 6 - J . Bell : you give him a used car dealership based on non -conforming use you ' re assuming that it passes with the land . 0 . K . so you have given him the permit to sell used cars - - number one 0 . K . then that clears the way for him to - the motorized vehicle repair shop because he ' s selling them . What is he doing with his used cars when he sells them? Is he repairing them to sell them? Is he buying them damaged and repairing them and selling them? G . Hoy : I don ' t think he ' s told us that . He would ._have � to -� do a certain amount of preparation work on his used cars . J . Bell : Well - - it ' s not permitted to purchase damaged vehicles and obviously that is what he is doing , isn ' t it ? F . Pierson: He hasn ' t done anything yet . J . Bell : Well , the man before him probably did . F . Pierson: Yes , but he was there before zoning . J . Bell : You buy junk cars , you fix them up and then you sell them . What are your thoughts on what I ' m saying ? F . Pierson : I say you can ' t deny a man from trying to make a living . J . Bell : You ' re going to have to go back and forget about zoning , then . F . Pierson : There ' s a letter there saying that it ' s O . K . The license was current and so on . J . Bell : Yes , but do you agree that he should have two separate applications ? F . Pierson: No . J . Bell : You feel you can just give him both ? G . Hoy : It ' s more or less a combination . J . Bello What is it ? Two for the price of one ? G . Hoy : I can see your point but the idea is this was the complete business before and he just wants to carry it on as it was and I think it ' s like that snowmobile business out there . J . Bell : Alright it was non-conforming but it was only one thing - - it was for a motorized vehicle repair shop . G . Hoy : The point I was trying to get across is it was before zoning went into effect and there was nothing we could do about it and in my estimation this letter - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - and the Town Board had something to say in this letter I would think because Teresa got one of those letters and if it wasn ' t right with her I ' m sure she would have called out about it . J . Bell : 0 . K . if you ' re ready to vote . G . Hoy : May I have a motion to permit or deny ? - 7 - We 1 G . Hoy : Well , I ' ll make the motion'. then that the special permit be granted to Mr . Harrison on the information we have here tying the last owner of the land to the present one with the letter and that letter is part of the minutes and that Mr . Harrison meets the other rules and regulations of the ordinance . F . Fouts : That includes the used car dealership , too ? G . Hoy : Yes . F . Fouts : I ' ll second the motion . A roll call vote was taken as follows : Janet Bell - No Frank Pierson - Aye Floyd Fouts - Aye G . Hoy we Aye . Motion carried . The meeting adjourned at 9 P . M . Respe tfully submitted , Jo phi e Bell - 8 -