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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1979-01-29 TOWN OF GROTON ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS MEETING Held at the Town Hall , Groton , N . Y . Monday - January 29 , 1979 8 : 00 P . M . PRESENT : G . Hoy an Chairman F . Pierson - Vice - Chairman G . Bushnell F . Fouts Janet Bell J . Bell - Recording Clerk Mr . Hoy called the meeting to order at 8 PM . G . Hoy : Let ' s start with our decision on the Forney ' s application . Now this one here is more or less a formality because the date of the beginning of his business was before the ordinance was in effect so the things that he was doing before are legal now for him - - so does anybody want to say anything about this one ? F . Pierson : Snowmobiles fall under motor vehicles ? G . Hoy : Yes . F . Pierson ; And it says on here for the special permit they have to be licensed . The question I have is I don ' t know whether they have to be licensed by the State of New York to repair snowmobiles or not . J . Bell : They do not have to be licensed . I checked into it . F . Pierson ; 0 . K . , I didn ' t want to say we should grant this and then find out they should be licensed , - - then we would be in the wrong . J . Bell : I ' m not so sure that this - - you know snowmobile parts are really not - - the terms of granting the permit an - because actually with a snowmobile you don ' t have to be licensed and yet that ' s one of the conditions for granting a special permit . G . Hoy : In a situation like that Ben said we should just waive that one . J . Bell : O . K . G . Hoy ; What I know about it , - - I have never been there myself , - -what I can see of it , it hasn ' t changed that much over the years . Started out with a 2 - car garage and that is what he is doing now . G . Bushnell : What does it mean by small sign? Says he installed one in 1970 . G . Hoy : The requirements in the zoning ordinance require that the sign not be any larger than - - - an - an - so his is just a little bit over but it ' s been there since he started so there isn ' t anything we can do about it now . J . Bell : But as Gordon said if it was there before I guess it ' s an - G . Hoy : I ' ve been by there several times and it ' s back aways from the road and you don ' t hardly notice it unless you might be looking for his shop . J . Bell : Yes . I would sort of like to put this one off — On because , as compared to the other one that we were not sure of , - mbecause he has been doing this since 1969 and that is sort of the WE — the other one I mean is Cook ' s , - -whatever he expects to do , he ' s been doing since 1969 also and it sort of ties these two together . G . Hoy : Are there any objections as to discussing Cook ' s now ? J . Belle I would like to discuss the two of them at the same time since they have been doing it before the zoning came in . G . Hoy : Has he been there since 1969 , Floyd ? F . Fouts : That ' s what he says . G . Bushnell : His other one , yes , but not the one he has now . F . Pierson : He ' s owned the property . G . Hoy : And it ' s right there , - -he acquired the property in 1969 but the body work I don ' t think has been going on for more than 2 - 3 years . J . Bell : But he says on his application he has been doing this since 1969 . But the only reason I would sort of like to put these back and talk about them at the same time is because they have been doing it before the zoning and the other two I don ' t think there ' s any doubt we have to grant the other two . G . Hoy : I don ' t think there ' s any doubt but that we have to grant Forney ' s . G . Bushnell : Me , either . J . Bell : I don ' t think so either but would like to compare the two because they have been doing the same thing . G . Hoy : Alright . Any more discussion on Paul Cook ' s ? I said after the hearing that I would call Bob Brown up and talk to him about it and I did and he said that it was just a letter he sent to all of the people that he got word of that were doing any kind of business and in the letter it explained , - -naturally he sent them a copy of the rules and then asked them to look into it to see if they needed special permits . And now he told me that he told Paul when he talked to him that he didn ' t think he needed one and then all of a sudden Paul thought he ought to have one anyways . That ' s what Bob told me . G . Bushnell : He says he is buying them from an insurance c9spany and fixing them up for his own family . J . Bell : So what do you judge it on but by what he says ? G . Bushnell : I think we need further evidence from him that he wants a license . F . Fouts : He said he didn ' t . - 2 On J . Bell : He says on his application "would like to get a motorized vehicle repair shop license which I don ' t have at this time . " But then if he does we couldn ' t grant him that special permit if he is buying cars to resell them . You know to fix them up and resell them , - -we couldn ' t give him a special permit . Mr . Roy read aloud from the minutes of the public hearing and read parts aloud of the questions and answers pertain- ing to Mr . Cook ' s application . G . Hoy : I think there ' s one other thing , too , that ' s a drawback in this particular one . There isn ' t much off-road parking and it ' s hard to get it and the driveway is right off a very sharp bend , both ways , and yet none of the neighbors brought that point out . I thought that would be a very good point to bring out because , to me , that ' s a very dangerous situation because it ' s on a main road . J . Bell " The thing is , if he complies with all the zoning ordinance land requirements , parking area and everything , then we are obligated to give him the permit . G . Hoy : That ' s right but we can still put conditions on it . J . Bell : I ' m not even sure we can do that . We don ' t have that discretion in the zoning ordinance . G . Hoy : But Ben said we could write anything we wanted to , within reason , US We what we thought on — Some discussion was held on this by J . Bell , G . Hoy and others . J . Bell : If he does comply with everything , - -but basically he is not - - he wouldn ' t even be complying with the special permit , as far as the ordinance is concerned , because he ' s basically , from what Floyd says , - - if he does have a used car dealer take on his cars he ' s We — on on NO - - But I think it would be just as well to put that aside for awhile . This is very confusing , I think , because it ' s something he has been doing since 1969 so he says . If he meets all the zoning requirements We — — F . Pierson ; We can ' t grant it to him until he gets a New York State license anyways . J . Bell : You do have 6 months to get one . Where did I read this ? I did read you have 6 months to comply with all of these . I agree with you because that was the first thing I put down here that it was premature he does not have a license . Maybe that would be a way out , - - tell him to apply for his license and then reapply for a special permit . Basically on what he says right here he has no reason to get one . G . Hoy ; Right . And his neighbors seem to be quite content with what he is doing now but don ' t want him licensed to go any further and I can see their point . G . Bushnell : I can , too . G . Hoy : Would you like to discuss the other two , - -Harry Bush and Robert - 3 on w • G . Hoy : Haughn or make motions on these ? J . Bell : Well , - - the other two I feel we have to grant the other two , - - I can ' t see any reason not to . F . Pierson : Both of those guyes were in on some of these meetings and put everything into what they wrote here so I think they are in compliance and they are willing to do it so they can stay in business . J . Bell : Yes , on both of these I can ' t see any reason not to grant them . G . Hoy : If there ' s no discussion will somebody make a motion ? I think we ought to take them one at a time and vote on them that way . J . Bell : I make a motion that we pass on Robert S . Haughn ' s and grant the special condition permit on the grounds that he complies with all the zoning ordinance . F . Fouts : I second the motion . Roll Call voteswas as follows : George Bushnell on Aye F . Pierson on Aye F . Fouts - Aye J . Bell - Aye G . Hoy on Aye . Carried unanimously . G . Hoy : Alright , now Harry Bush ' s . F . Pierson : I make a motion we grant Harry L . Bush , 498 Davis Road a special conditions permit . G . Bushnell : I second the motion . Roll Call vote was as follows : George Bushnell we Aye F . Pierson as Aye F . Fouts - Aye J . Bell - Aye G . Hoy - Aye . G . Hoy : Now on Willmor and Ramona Forney ' s ? J . Bell : I sort of forget on Forneys . Did she say that they sell snowmobiles ? G . Hoy : No . J . Bell : They don ' t buy them, repair them or sell them? G . Hoy : Any more discussion on this one or would somebody like to make a motion ? J . Bell : Why don ' t you make the motion , Gordon , and the reason would be the fact that they have been in business , non- conforming , etc . ? G . Hoy : Well , coonnononconforming , - - the only thing I can see that is non- conforming is the sign , right ? I make a motion that a special permit be granted - 4 - G . Hoy : the Forney ' s on the grounds that they started in business before the zoning ordinance was in effect and their busi - ness hasn ' t changed that much , is pretty much the same as it has been all these years . J . Bell : Are you going to waive the requirement for the license ? G . Hoy : For the license , yes . Do I hear a second on that ? G . Bushnell : I second the motion . Roll Call Vote was as follows : F . Pierson - Aye J . Bell - Aye F . Fouts - Aye G . Bushnell - Aye G . Hoy- Aye Carried unanimously . G . Hoy : That leaves us with one . G . Bushnell : That leaves us with Mr . Cook . G . Hoy : I don ' t think - - if we denied him the permit and explained our reasons why we did it and that he doesn ' t need one anyways as long as he explained it to us the way he did and he doesn ' t in- tend to do anything more than he is now . G . Bushnell : I think we should deny the permit and send him a letter explaining if he does want to do work for the public he can reapply . J . Bell : Where did Bob Brown get the information that Mr . Cook needed one ? G . Hoy : Bob sent him a letter as he heard he was in this kind of business and asked him to check into it . J . Bell : Where did Bob Brown hear this ? G . Bushnell : You could drive by there and think that . It looks like a repair place . G . Hoy : It isn ' t anything he is trying to hide . G . Bushnell : He said right at the hearing he wasn ' t looking for work from the public so if he doesn ' t intend to do work for the public , he doesn ' t need a permit . G . Hoy : Not only that , if we deny him now and like you say he wants to later on get his license and has everything in order and reapplies and feels he needs one - - G . Bushnell : Right . G . Hoy : Would you like to put that in the form of a motion , George ? G . Bushnell : I make a motion that Mr . Cook ' s application for a permit be denied at this time and he can reapply later for a special permit if he so desires to do business for the public . - 5 - G . Hoy : Do I hear a second on the motion? F . Fouts : I second the motion . It ' s good . Roll Call Vote was as follows : F . Pierson an Aye J . Bell an Aye F . Fouts - Aye G . Bushnell an Aye G . Hoy an Aye as motion was carried unanimously . G . Hoy : Are there any other questions or comments about this draft I gave you last time which I received from Mr . Evans . J . Bell : I would like more time to look at them . G . Hoy : I just wondered if you would like him to come and explain to us as a group . J . Bell ; I think it would be a good idea . G . Bushnell : I ' d get a lot more out of that . G . Hoy ; I ' ll see what I can do and if a Monday night is alright for you I ' ll sign him up for a Monday night and you ' ll all be notified in advance . He said he would be glad to go over it with us . He ' s very good at it . He ' s working on the zoning ordinance with our Planning Board now . Mr . Hoy read aloud from the Town Planning Board ' s meeting the portions which Mr . Evans talked over with Mr . Hoy at the beginning of the meeting pertaining to the zoning board . G . Hoy : We did have something that follows what he gave us , to a certain degree , but it was something that was handed us as a guideline to go by but we never really talked it over . So I ' ll set up a meeting then . J . Bell : Yes , I think it would be good to have him come and talk to us . G . Bushnell : In other words if we are , intgeneraleagieementmenn7this , we can adopt it ? G . Hoy : Yes , and if there are changes we want to make as we go through it that ' s possible too . J . Bell : I have one that I don ' t want right away — We regular meetings . G . Hoy ; Oh , yeah , I don ' t think that ' s necessary . J . Bell : I don ' t either under our circumstances but I think after he talks with us we can discuss it . G . Hoy : Anything else , anyone would like to discuss at this time ? If not , will adjourn the meeting . The meeting adjourned at 8 * 40 P . M . / Respectfully submitted , 6 00 Josephine Bell