HomeMy WebLinkAbout1979-01-29 TOWN OF GROTON ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS MEETING
Held at the Town Hall , Groton , N . Y .
Monday - January 29 , 1979
8 : 00 P . M .
PRESENT : G . Hoy an Chairman
F . Pierson - Vice - Chairman
G . Bushnell
F . Fouts
Janet Bell J . Bell - Recording Clerk
Mr . Hoy called the meeting to order at 8 PM .
G . Hoy : Let ' s start with our decision on the Forney ' s application . Now
this one here is more or less a formality because the date of the
beginning of his business was before the ordinance was in effect
so the things that he was doing before are legal now for him - -
so does anybody want to say anything about this one ?
F . Pierson : Snowmobiles fall under motor vehicles ?
G . Hoy : Yes .
F . Pierson ; And it says on here for the special permit they have to be
licensed . The question I have is I don ' t know whether they have
to be licensed by the State of New York to repair snowmobiles or
not .
J . Bell : They do not have to be licensed . I checked into it .
F . Pierson ; 0 . K . , I didn ' t want to say we should grant this and then find
out they should be licensed , - - then we would be in the wrong .
J . Bell : I ' m not so sure that this - - you know snowmobile parts are really
not - - the terms of granting the permit an - because actually with
a snowmobile you don ' t have to be licensed and yet that ' s one of the
conditions for granting a special permit .
G . Hoy : In a situation like that Ben said we should just waive that one .
J . Bell : O . K .
G . Hoy ; What I know about it , - - I have never been there myself , - -what I can
see of it , it hasn ' t changed that much over the years . Started out
with a 2 - car garage and that is what he is doing now .
G . Bushnell : What does it mean by small sign? Says he installed one in 1970 .
G . Hoy : The requirements in the zoning ordinance require that the sign not
be any larger than - - - an - an - so his is just a little bit over but
it ' s been there since he started so there isn ' t anything we can do
about it now .
J . Bell : But as Gordon said if it was there before I guess it ' s an -
G . Hoy : I ' ve been by there several times and it ' s back aways from the
road and you don ' t hardly notice it unless you might be looking
for his shop .
J . Bell : Yes . I would sort of like to put this one off — On because , as
compared to the other one that we were not sure of , - mbecause he
has been doing this since 1969 and that is sort of the WE —
the other one I mean is Cook ' s , - -whatever he expects to do , he ' s
been doing since 1969 also and it sort of ties these two together .
G . Hoy : Are there any objections as to discussing Cook ' s now ?
J . Belle I would like to discuss the two of them at the same time since
they have been doing it before the zoning came in .
G . Hoy : Has he been there since 1969 , Floyd ?
F . Fouts : That ' s what he says .
G . Bushnell : His other one , yes , but not the one he has now .
F . Pierson : He ' s owned the property .
G . Hoy : And it ' s right there , - -he acquired the property in 1969 but the
body work I don ' t think has been going on for more than 2 - 3 years .
J . Bell : But he says on his application he has been doing this since 1969 .
But the only reason I would sort of like to put these back and
talk about them at the same time is because they have been doing
it before the zoning and the other two I don ' t think there ' s any
doubt we have to grant the other two .
G . Hoy : I don ' t think there ' s any doubt but that we have to grant Forney ' s .
G . Bushnell : Me , either .
J . Bell : I don ' t think so either but would like to compare the two because
they have been doing the same thing .
G . Hoy : Alright . Any more discussion on Paul Cook ' s ? I said after the
hearing that I would call Bob Brown up and talk to him about it
and I did and he said that it was just a letter he sent to all of
the people that he got word of that were doing any kind of business
and in the letter it explained , - -naturally he sent them a copy of
the rules and then asked them to look into it to see if they needed
special permits . And now he told me that he told Paul when he
talked to him that he didn ' t think he needed one and then all of a
sudden Paul thought he ought to have one anyways . That ' s what Bob
told me .
G . Bushnell : He says he is buying them from an insurance c9spany and fixing them
up for his own family .
J . Bell : So what do you judge it on but by what he says ?
G . Bushnell : I think we need further evidence from him that he wants a license .
F . Fouts : He said he didn ' t .
- 2 On
J . Bell : He says on his application "would like to get a motorized vehicle
repair shop license which I don ' t have at this time . " But then
if he does we couldn ' t grant him that special permit if he is
buying cars to resell them . You know to fix them up and resell
them , - -we couldn ' t give him a special permit .
Mr . Roy read aloud from the minutes of the public hearing
and read parts aloud of the questions and answers pertain-
ing to Mr . Cook ' s application .
G . Hoy : I think there ' s one other thing , too , that ' s a drawback in this
particular one . There isn ' t much off-road parking and it ' s hard
to get it and the driveway is right off a very sharp bend , both
ways , and yet none of the neighbors brought that point out . I
thought that would be a very good point to bring out because , to
me , that ' s a very dangerous situation because it ' s on a main road .
J . Bell " The thing is , if he complies with all the zoning ordinance land
requirements , parking area and everything , then we are obligated
to give him the permit .
G . Hoy : That ' s right but we can still put conditions on it .
J . Bell : I ' m not even sure we can do that . We don ' t have that discretion
in the zoning ordinance .
G . Hoy : But Ben said we could write anything we wanted to , within reason ,
US We what we thought on —
Some discussion was held on this by J . Bell , G .
Hoy and others .
J . Bell : If he does comply with everything , - -but basically he is not - -
he wouldn ' t even be complying with the special permit , as far as
the ordinance is concerned , because he ' s basically , from what
Floyd says , - - if he does have a used car dealer take on his cars
he ' s We — on on NO - - But I think it would be just as well to put
that aside for awhile . This is very confusing , I think , because
it ' s something he has been doing since 1969 so he says . If he
meets all the zoning requirements We — —
F . Pierson ; We can ' t grant it to him until he gets a New York State license
anyways .
J . Bell : You do have 6 months to get one . Where did I read this ? I did
read you have 6 months to comply with all of these . I agree
with you because that was the first thing I put down here that
it was premature he does not have a license . Maybe that would
be a way out , - - tell him to apply for his license and then reapply
for a special permit . Basically on what he says right here he has no
reason to get one .
G . Hoy ; Right . And his neighbors seem to be quite content with what he
is doing now but don ' t want him licensed to go any further and I
can see their point .
G . Bushnell : I can , too .
G . Hoy : Would you like to discuss the other two , - -Harry Bush and Robert
- 3 on
w
• G . Hoy : Haughn or make motions on these ?
J . Bell : Well , - - the other two I feel we have to grant the other two , - - I
can ' t see any reason not to .
F . Pierson : Both of those guyes were in on some of these meetings and put
everything into what they wrote here so I think they are in
compliance and they are willing to do it so they can stay in
business .
J . Bell : Yes , on both of these I can ' t see any reason not to grant them .
G . Hoy : If there ' s no discussion will somebody make a motion ? I think
we ought to take them one at a time and vote on them that way .
J . Bell : I make a motion that we pass on Robert S . Haughn ' s and grant the
special condition permit on the grounds that he complies with
all the zoning ordinance .
F . Fouts : I second the motion .
Roll Call voteswas as follows :
George Bushnell on Aye
F . Pierson on Aye
F . Fouts - Aye
J . Bell - Aye
G . Hoy on Aye . Carried unanimously .
G . Hoy : Alright , now Harry Bush ' s .
F . Pierson : I make a motion we grant Harry L . Bush , 498 Davis Road a
special conditions permit .
G . Bushnell : I second the motion .
Roll Call vote was as follows :
George Bushnell we Aye
F . Pierson as Aye
F . Fouts - Aye
J . Bell - Aye
G . Hoy - Aye .
G . Hoy : Now on Willmor and Ramona Forney ' s ?
J . Bell : I sort of forget on Forneys . Did she say that they sell snowmobiles ?
G . Hoy : No .
J . Bell : They don ' t buy them, repair them or sell them?
G . Hoy : Any more discussion on this one or would somebody like to make a motion ?
J . Bell : Why don ' t you make the motion , Gordon , and the reason would be the
fact that they have been in business , non- conforming , etc . ?
G . Hoy : Well , coonnononconforming , - - the only thing I can see that is non- conforming
is the sign , right ? I make a motion that a special permit be granted
- 4 -
G . Hoy : the Forney ' s on the grounds that they started in business
before the zoning ordinance was in effect and their busi -
ness hasn ' t changed that much , is pretty much the same as
it has been all these years .
J . Bell : Are you going to waive the requirement for the license ?
G . Hoy : For the license , yes . Do I hear a second on that ?
G . Bushnell : I second the motion .
Roll Call Vote was as follows :
F . Pierson - Aye
J . Bell - Aye
F . Fouts - Aye
G . Bushnell - Aye
G . Hoy- Aye Carried unanimously .
G . Hoy : That leaves us with one .
G . Bushnell : That leaves us with Mr . Cook .
G . Hoy : I don ' t think - - if we denied him the permit and explained our
reasons why we did it and that he doesn ' t need one anyways as
long as he explained it to us the way he did and he doesn ' t in-
tend to do anything more than he is now .
G . Bushnell : I think we should deny the permit and send him a letter explaining
if he does want to do work for the public he can reapply .
J . Bell : Where did Bob Brown get the information that Mr . Cook needed one ?
G . Hoy : Bob sent him a letter as he heard he was in this kind of business
and asked him to check into it .
J . Bell : Where did Bob Brown hear this ?
G . Bushnell : You could drive by there and think that . It looks like a repair
place .
G . Hoy : It isn ' t anything he is trying to hide .
G . Bushnell : He said right at the hearing he wasn ' t looking for work from the
public so if he doesn ' t intend to do work for the public , he
doesn ' t need a permit .
G . Hoy : Not only that , if we deny him now and like you say he wants to later
on get his license and has everything in order and reapplies and
feels he needs one - -
G . Bushnell : Right .
G . Hoy : Would you like to put that in the form of a motion , George ?
G . Bushnell : I make a motion that Mr . Cook ' s application for a permit be denied
at this time and he can reapply later for a special permit if he
so desires to do business for the public .
- 5 -
G . Hoy : Do I hear a second on the motion?
F . Fouts : I second the motion . It ' s good .
Roll Call Vote was as follows :
F . Pierson an Aye
J . Bell an Aye
F . Fouts - Aye
G . Bushnell an Aye
G . Hoy an Aye as motion was carried unanimously .
G . Hoy : Are there any other questions or comments about this draft I
gave you last time which I received from Mr . Evans .
J . Bell : I would like more time to look at them .
G . Hoy : I just wondered if you would like him to come and explain to us
as a group .
J . Bell ; I think it would be a good idea .
G . Bushnell : I ' d get a lot more out of that .
G . Hoy ; I ' ll see what I can do and if a Monday night is alright for you
I ' ll sign him up for a Monday night and you ' ll all be notified
in advance . He said he would be glad to go over it with us . He ' s
very good at it . He ' s working on the zoning ordinance with our
Planning Board now .
Mr . Hoy read aloud from the Town Planning Board ' s meeting
the portions which Mr . Evans talked over with Mr . Hoy at
the beginning of the meeting pertaining to the zoning board .
G . Hoy : We did have something that follows what he gave us , to a certain
degree , but it was something that was handed us as a guideline to
go by but we never really talked it over . So I ' ll set up a meeting
then .
J . Bell : Yes , I think it would be good to have him come and talk to us .
G . Bushnell : In other words if we are , intgeneraleagieementmenn7this , we can
adopt it ?
G . Hoy : Yes , and if there are changes we want to make as we go through it
that ' s possible too .
J . Bell : I have one that I don ' t want right away — We regular meetings .
G . Hoy ; Oh , yeah , I don ' t think that ' s necessary .
J . Bell : I don ' t either under our circumstances but I think after he talks
with us we can discuss it .
G . Hoy : Anything else , anyone would like to discuss at this time ? If not ,
will adjourn the meeting .
The meeting adjourned at 8 * 40 P . M . /
Respectfully submitted ,
6 00 Josephine Bell