HomeMy WebLinkAbout1976-12-13 GROTON ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS PUBLIC HEARING
Held at the Town Hall
Groton , N . Y .
Monday , December 13 , 1976
PRESENT : G . Hoy - Chairman* Mr . & Mrs . J . Harold Williams *
R . Bell*
F . Fouts * Vicki Hoy - Recording Clerk *
F . Pierson*
J . Bell
# - Denotes those present .
Gordon Hoy called the hearing to order at 8 : 10 PM
and read aloud the Notice of Public Hearing for
J . Harold and S . Elizabeth Williams ' application
for a variance of the Zoning Ordinance of the flown
of Groton in respect to the Street Frontage . This
notice was published in the Journal and Courier on
December 1 , 1976 .
G . Hoy : Mr . Williams , would you like to explain this to us ?
Mr . Williams : Well , when we sold the main part of the farm to our
daughter , we kept a little over 350 feet along with
the frontage . At that time , it was 150 feet minimum
frontage . We are not selling the small lot ; we are
selling nearly two acres . I thought at the time
that maybe I could work enough of it so that it would
be sensible to keep it , but I have found that even
the garden out in front looks awful big to me . If
my back doesn ' t hold up , I have to do all my gardening
work with the rototillar or on my knees , so I would
like to sell it and get the money out of it .
G . Hoy : The lot that you are referring to , that you sold to
your daughter , is that to the south?
Mr . Williams : That is to the north .
G . Hoy : To the north . . .
Mrs . Williams : This piece of property although it doesn ' t have the
frontage , it figures up to about an acre and five or
six feet .
G . Hoy : We have never run into a situation like this before .
You would be reducing your own lot to less than
minimum now .
Mr . Williams : But I would still have over two acres so there is
no chance of anybody putting any more lots in there .
R . Bell : This one here is the one he is wanting to split .
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G . Hoy : This down here with the " 5 " in it , that was
originally part of the farm , too ?
Mr . Williams : That is Brockway ' s lot . It came off the property
originally . They moved the house from somewhere
up in Houston ' s property . That was quite a while ago .
G . Hoy : That looks like that would be even less than yours ,
frontage as far as that goes .
Mr . Williams : Just a little , but I think there would be a four
foot difference in the property line ,
Mrs . Williams : Down there off of the corner property where those
two trailers are , they don ' t have very much frontage .
Mr . Williams : On the LePage property .
R . Bell : They were probably put in though before the zoning
went into effect .
Mr . Williams : I am not sure whether they were put in before . Were
they , Dana ?
D . Snell : Where is that?
Mr . Williams : Down there at those two trailers in the back of the
LePage house .
D . Snell : No , they were put in before the zoning went in . They
have 100 foot frontage but that was before this new
regulation went in .
Mr . Williams : I figured this here for 150 if I sold the property .
Then right after they got the papers made up there
was talk of this 200 foot ; so by the time I got that
in , I got my papers back and there wasn ' t that much
frontage .
G . Hoy : How is the drainage in that area ? ��
Mr . Williams : Good drainage up there . This drainage slopes all
the road . When Donahue came up and made the tests ,
he put in 250 foot leachbeds . . . no , 60 feet there . We
are going to have 3-5O ' s over on the other property .
Mrs . Williams : How did the drainage go when they tested it?
Mr . Williams : They said it was a lot faster than was required . I
forget how far it dropped in a minute , but you could
see it go down .
G . Hoy : Do you have any questions , Frank ?
F . Pierson : No , I ' don ' t know . Actually , this driveway that you
are splitting is the existing driveway you are using
right now?
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Mr . Williams , Yes , the driveway wouldn ' t be split because it is
about 15 feet from that driveway to over where the
175 feet would come .
F . Pierson , You mean the driveway remains on your place ?
Mr . Williams , That is right , and I would have about 10 to 18 feet
for a flower garden .
R . Bell , Your arrow should show that you have 25 feet from
the driveway to the lot line .
G . Hoy , Any questions you would like to ask , Floyd?
Mrs . Williams , Of course , we may not ever sell the lot ; there may
not even be a buyer . We choose to be a little picky
who gets : . it . I wouldn ' t like it to look like the
one across the railroad tracks . Of course , we have
quite a peaceful neighborhood as it is .
G . Hoy , Are there any more questions you would like to ask ,
Dick ?
R . Bell , No , the only part that makes it rough is that there
is no hardship . You look at it and there is no
hardship .
G . Hoy , I can read you Section 8 of the rules so that you
will know what we have to go bye
1 . Strict application of the ordinance would produce
undue hardship and that the hardship is not self -
created .
2 . The hardship is unique and is not shared by all
properties alike in the immediate vicinity of
the property and in the use district .
3 . The variance would observe the spirit of the
ordinance and would not change the character of
the district .
4 . The variance would observe the intent of the
comprehensive plan , if any .
5 . The variance lis ,__the ,% minimum necessary to grant
relief .
It makes it hard for us to go by this , and really
we can ' t find the hardship in this .
Mr . Williams , The hardship in this is that I am retired , and I want
to get the money out of that for use now .
G . Hoy , If everybody came in here and said they were poor ,
there is just no way in the ordinance that . we can say
that a hardship isn ' t money . The hardship has to
pertain to the lot itself .
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Mrs . Williams : What is an example of a hardship?
G . Hoyt Well , some of the hardships that we have had already
are medical hardships for one . That has been the
leading one . People want to build on because someone
was an invalid . Lot hardships ; I don ' t know if I can
explain that . Can you help me out on that , Dana ?
D . Snell : No , I don ' t know what your rules and regulations
really are . I think Harold told me that he has to
drill a well , so that is . . .
G . Hoy : You mean that you have got to drill a deeper well ?
Mr . Williams : I have to drill a new well on the property that I
have over to the house , because I didn ' t have the
money to put it in when I got the trailer . If I
knew this 200 foot was coming up , I would have saved
some, of that . But , I didn ' t know it at the time .
That is where the hardship comes in for me .
G . Hoyt Well , if there are no more questions for the Williams ,
we could excuse you , or you can stay if you like .
Mr . Williams : I probably couldn ' t answer any questions any better
than I already have .
G . Hoy opened a zoning board meeting to discuss the
above hearing .
G . Hoyt They have more than enough square feet . Actually ,
the only thing on a lot like that that does grade
to the road , when you build something or put a
trailer in there , if the septic tank ever does
fail that is where it is going . Right to the ditch .
The square footage actually means nothing . Here
the important thing is the frontage because they
can build as close to the road as any body else can ,
and if you do not foresee something like this , a
sewage system or something overflowing . . .
There are lots of roads around where there are places
that septic tanks are failing and are running right
on the roadside . Of course , he says the drainage
is good . That is one point in his favor .
F . Foutss Is it approved by the Board of Health?
G . Hoy : I don ' t think the lot itself has been .
D . Snell : He is talking about where he lives now .
F . Pierson : Where he actually lives right now , he must have put
in about four or five years ago . At the time , he
talked to Donahue , so he is talking about that
particular lot , and I suppose a little distance now
would be the same .
G . Hoy : It does seem like it would be .
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F . Piersons This will actually be the fourth time he has split
up the lot ,
D , Snells Yes , he split off three times , He split two off ,
now he wants to split the third one ,
F , Piersons And then she said the one that Brockway has was
originally on the farm , too , That has been 20 or 30
years ago ,
D , Snells What I question , he is making his own lot illegal ,
along with the other one . However , he said he had
this done before they came out with the 200 foot
frontage ,
R . Bells I really don ' t think that part enters into it , though ,
He couldn ' t have had all these individual lots laid
out before ,
Do Snells Do you recall to the date this 200 foot frontage
went in?
G , Hoye It was some time during the summer , wasn ' t it?
Along with the trailer ordinance , when it came in ,
they voted them both in at the same time ,
D . Snells It went off on trailers on September 20 , So they
must have voted the 200 in just about that time ,
because they had to come up with something before
the 20th of September because they had to take the
moratorium off at that time ,
F , Piersons August 23 and right there is what we are into ,
G , Hoye The 23rd day of August , , , Lot sizes " all lots
for mobile homes not in a mobile home park shall
have 4. 3 , 560 square feet with a minimum of 200 feet
frontage provided by the zoning ordinance for the
Town of Groton , " ( quoted
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Da Snells That means that it was split up before this 200 foot
went in , Evidentally , October 24 , 1975 is the date
when he split it up and that would have been before
we came up with this 200 foot frontage ,
Fo Piersons But did he split it all at that time or just split
the original house off and leave this five acres
that he wants to split now?
Do Snells I don ' t know ,
Go Hoye That ' s right , He had this drawn up hereo This isn ' t
splito That is what he is talking about now ,
Fo Piersons He originally lived in that house ? Now he lives in
the trailer?
Do Snells Yes , Evidentally , those two were split off in ' 75 ,
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F . Pierson : So must be the part he wants to split was split
from the original place in October , 1975 . So he
just did that last year . Now he wants to split
the remaining five acres .
G . Hoy : Does he understand about these new regulations as
far as a trailer goes . I am referring to his own
trailer now , that if he changed his trailer that
it would have to be bigger than it is now?
D . Snell : No , I don ' t know if he does .
F . Fouts : Well , I am just trying to think that if anything
happened in the future and he moves the trailer off ,
and he wanted to put something back there , you
would be out of luck . When it comes time to be
replaced , you couldn ' t put a new one in if you
_wanted to .
G . Hoy : It says if he wanted to put a bigger trailer in
there , and we granted him a variance on this lot ,
he would be creating his own hardship and that
you would deny him a variance .
D . Snell : You have got to be 25 feet from the property line .
G . Hoy : He would have room enough , but he has got a lot too
small now to put anything on . If he wanted to
build anything at all. he would have to have a
variance for it , because it doesn ' t have a standard
lot size .
D . Snell : That is right because he had done it before the
200 lot frontage went in . He has got room enough
as far as . . .
G . Hoy ; All he needs is the board ' s approval on it .
F . Pierson : But he is creating a lot that isn ' t legal .
R . Belli He is creating two , actually .
F . Pierson : He is making his own illegal , and he is creating
another to try to sell . By rights the new owner
will have to have a variance .
G . Hoy : No , I don ' t think so .
R . Bell : No , once we grant that part to . . .
G . Hoy : They can build on it as long as they meet the
specifications , because the variance was already
granted . We make it legal if we grant the variance .
D . Snell : If a variance is granted , it goes with the deed .
R . Bell : That is the part that worries me . It wouldn ' t-.- be
quite so bad if he had enough on his own but then
to create two lots . . .
What happens when the next one comes along if we
grant this one ? It is no hardship not to have the money .
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G . Hoy : That is what I was trying to say . You just can ' t
do it because money isn ' t a hardship . If it was ,
everybody that came in here could use it . Then we
would be financial investigators as well as Board
of Appeals . We have got to look at the lot and
that is all we can look at . We cannot look at
everyone ' s financial status .
F . Pierson : Well , I think if you are lucky enough to own five
acres this day and age you should try to keep it
rather than to split it up .
G . Hoy : If he is just eager to sell now , we might even be
doing him a disservice by granting him a variance
on it under these conditions .
R . Bell : He might better sell it all the way it is and go *
and buy another lot some place .
G . Hoy : Someone else might be awfully glad to get that
extra _ land there .
D . Snell : Well , you would be in trouble there , too . He would
have to sell his trailer and buy another one , because
I don ' t think this one is big enough .
G . Hoy : Well , are there any feelings enough to vote on it
or to make a motion?
R . Bell : I would like to go ahead to make a motion that the
variance not be granted the reason being there is
no hardship .
F . Pierson : I will second that motion .
G . Hoy : A motion has been made to deny the variance . We will
now have a roll call vote .
F . Pierson - No R . Bell - No F . Fouts - No G . Hoy - No .
Motion carried unanimously .
The meeting was adjourned at 8 : 4. 5 P . M .
Respectfully submitted ,
a a"
Vicki Hoy