HomeMy WebLinkAbout1976-02-04 t
GROTON ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS PUBLIC HEARING
Held at the Town Hall
Groton , N . Y .
Wednesday , February 4 , 1976 at 8 : 00 P . M .
PRESENT : G . Hoy - Chairman* D . Snell - Zoning Board of Appeals Officer*
Janet Bell* J . Bell - Recording Clerk*
F . Fouts *
R . Bell Dorothy Higgins*
G . Lawrence Bud Ostrander*
R . J . Wilsen*
* - Denotes those present .
Mr . Hoy called the hearing to order at 8 P . M . and read aloud the
Notice of Public Hearing which was published in the Journal and
Courier on January 21 , 1976 , a copy of which is attached and made
a part of these minutes .
G . Hoy : Now if someone would like to explain the facts to us .
B . Ostrander : The lot is 100 ft . wide and I guess zoning calls for 150 ft , and
in 1950 the deeded lot was 100 ft . so couldn ' t buy any more land
around it to make it what it ' s zoned for now . My understanding is
if it was deeded in 1950 it ' s still a regular lot to put a single
dwelling on .
The Groton Business Association owns all the land around it , except
for Avery ' s next door . The lot is 100 ft . wade by 348 . 5 depth . It
was O . K . ' d by the Public Health Department right after I bought it
and this is when they told me they would like 150 ft . frontage but
seeing that it was deeded 20 years ago there wasn ' t much they could
do about it so they gave me the permit for the septic system on the
land at that time and I have the permit here with me I believe .
(Mr . Ostrander showed the permit to the Zoning Board of
Appeals ' members ) .
D . Snell : A few years ago the Health Department didn ' t require 150 ft . but
they require it now , same as the Town does .
B . Ostrander : They required it at the time the permit was given out but said see -
ing as how it was deeded 20 years ago and no way of getting another
50 ft . from anybody they would more or less have to give their
permission and the drainage on the land is fantastic .
G . Hoy : Your lot doesn ' t go over to the Old Stage Road , does it ?
B . Ostrander : No , it ' s right off Chipmans ' Corners Road ,
G . Hoy : Where this house is here , that ' s on another lot ?
B . Ostrander : Right . Coming from Groton would be this way , - -Avery lives right here
and my lot is just ahead of his and the Groton Association owns the
an 1 -
Be Ostrander : rest around there .
G . Hoy : And you have tried to get land ?
Be Ostrander : I tried to from Milo and the Groton Association wasn ' t interested in
selling 50 ft . I would have liked to have a little more frontage at
that but the Health Department said I didn ' t need it since it was deeded
way before , - - in the 50 ' s , - -which is why they went ahead and gave me a
permit .
In selling this lot to Mr . Wilson it ' s on the contingent that he can
build a family dwelling which is why we are asking for the variance
now .
G . Hoy : Uh-huh .
B . Ostrander : It has to be at least a $ 5 , 000 value dwelling and you couldn ' t even
put an outhouse out there for $ 5 , 000 . It ' s a nice area .
That ' s all I have to say . According to the regulations and zoning we
need , or Mr . Wilson needs , a variance so he can build and I need it
so I can sell my lot so he can built and I bought the lot to build on
and he ' s buying it from me to build a house .
Janet Bell : You are going to build yourself on that ?
R . Wilsen : Yes , my interest is to put a single family ranch style home on it.
which would be sold in the lower $ 30 , 000 bracket , - - strictly specula -
tion .
B . Ostrander : It would go along with the rest of the type houses out there .
I have the abstract here and this is my line , and to show that it ' s a
building lot of so many feet and so forth and that it ' s to build within
8 ft . north and south lines and 50 ft . from the road frontage . I guess
Bill King owned the lot for 20 years . When I bought the land originally
I was going to build out there but decided I didn ' t want to go into big
financing at that time as I owned 2 houses in the Village so didn ' t
feel I needed to go into any more .
G . Hoy : This here would have to be reapproved , right ?
Be Ostrander : I believe so , yes . I just showed you this to prove it was approved with
the 100 ft . frontage .
G . Hoy : How far back in the lot would you intend to build ?
R . Wilsen : I have not placed the house on the lot yet . I ' m sure it would be in
accordance with the rest of them . There ' s one other house on that
side of the street . I think also the Health Department would come
into this as to where to put the septic system and well . The first
step is to get you folks to approve it and then go to the Health
Department to get their approval before the building permit could
be issued . I cannot tell you now how far back it would be .
G . Hoy : Yes , I understand that now . There ' s one problem , - - even with good
drainage , - - in time you might have to change the laterals and with
such small frontage could be a problem there . These don ' t last forever
and they do have to be rerouted .
2 -
R . Wilsen : That could be . Is there any future planning for extension of sewer
to that section ?
D . Snell : Not that I heard of .
Be Ostrander : Didn ' t the Groton Association want to build a trailer park out there ?
At one time they were going to develop that whole area out there .
G . Hoy : I think it ' s still in the planning .
Be Ostrander : At that time I heard if they got the project they were going to get
water and sewer out to there . It ' s all hearsay but that ' s what I
heard .
R . Wilsen : The septic system would have to be designed to the Health Department ' s
standards . I understand the percolation is terrific .
Be Ostrander : The percolation tests I had out there were , - - as fast as the water
poured in there it was gone .
The selling of the lot depends on whether we get the variance and
also depends on whether we get the Health Department ' s permit and also
Mr . Wilsen will go in and drill a well to make sure he can get water
so we have a lot of things to hurdle here before we can actually even
sell . I figured that the building lot permit should be really no
problem because I bought the land in good faith that it would be a
building lot and would like to sell it the same way .
G . Hoy : Do you have any questions , Janet ?
J . Bell : No .
G . Hoy : Floyd ?
F . Fouts : No .
G . Hoy : I can ' t think of anything else we need to know right now . I guess we
can adjourn this hearing if you have nothing more to add that will be
all .
Be Ostrander : How soon will we find out ?
G . Hoy : We could possibly act on it tonight and we more than likely will .
We want to discuss it a little while first and will let you know
in the morning or as soon as possible .
R . Wilsen : Do you have any other questions of me as the prospective buyer ?
G . Hoy : Not that I can think of right now . It will be strictly speculation ?
R . Wilsen : Yes . I ' m sure this would be something that would be a credit to the
neighborhood , - -nothing that you would be ashamed of .
Mr . Ostrander discussed the reasons he would like to get this
straightened away and also said it would add to the Town ' s tax
base much more than the $ 18 . per year he pays on it now .
G . Hoy : We have guidelines we have to go by that are set up for us . If we
bend over backwards on 50 fte like this there ' s possibly going to
be lots of other problems that this could bring up . You see what
We 3 SO
G . Hoy : I ' m getting at ?
Be Ostrander : At the time this was deeded that was all that was required , - - 100 ft .
of frontage . That was the way they were lotted out .
G . Hoy : The one on the corner is that ? Corner lots require more anyways ,
don ' t they ?
Be Ostrander : I ' m sure the ones directly across the street are only 100 ft . frontage .
Re . Wilsen : Do you have a tax map here ?
D . Snell : Yes , but it ' s locked up in the vault .
Be Ostrander : As I said before the Health Department said there was nothing we could
do about it and now they want 150 ft . for any new lots but land that
has already been deeded there isn ' t really much that they can do about
it .
G . Hoy : Why was this such an odd shaped lot ? Why so long?
Be Ostrander : I have no idea .
G . Hoy : Are there any up on the Stage Road at all ?
Be Ostrander : I think the Association owns all the rest of that land outside of mine
and Averys . Across the street there , = - they just built one house - -
D . Snell : Rodee ' s . Wright has a subdivision up there .
Be Ostrander : Where this was deeded back in 1947 there was nothing I could do and I
did try to get more than 50 ft .
G . Hoy : You haven ' t tried recently though ?
Be Ostrander : No , because the last time I tried , - -
G . Hoy : Even selling it to a prospective buyer if they know , - - if they should
want to put anything on it they would have to get another variance .
R . Wilsen : To build what on the lot ?
G . Hoy : Anything else other than what you are going to build to begin with
right now . Is there going to be a garage with the house ?
R . Wilsen : Probably but in the event that there wasn ' t and they wanted to add
one at a future date ?
G . Hoy : That ' s right as long as frontage doesn ' t meet the legal requirements
they would have to go through this again .
R . Wilsen : Could Bud build on that now?
G . Hoy : Not without going through this same thing .
R . Wilsen : Even though he owned it prior to zoning ?
G . Hoy : That ' s my understanding .
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Be Ostrander : But even if a person wanted to build something else on it and ran it
into the depth of the lot shouldn ' t be any problem , should there ?
G . Hoy : No .
D . Snell : You have to have a total of 20 ft . on the side lines , - - 8 ft . on one
side and 12 ft . on the other .
R . Wilsen : If it is a 50 ft . house and was put in the center of the lot and if
a fellow that came and bought it wanted to build a 12 ft . garage would
he have to come back?
G . Hoy : Yes , - - as long as the frontage isn ' t legal he would still have to have
a variance .
Be Ostrander : Unless you put the house and garage all together then you wouldn ' t have
to worry about it , - -right?
G . Hoy : That ' s right .
Be Ostrander : I hope you folks will O . K . the variance .
G . Hoy : Well , we ' ll discuss it and let you know .
The Public Hearing was adjourned at 8 : 28 P . M .
Mr . Hoy called the Zoning Board meeting to order at 8 : 30 P .M .
F . Fouts : Seems like they would have to build that just right . They can get as
close as 8 ft . on one side .
D . Snell : Well , like Rodees is 66 ft . if you get 20 ft . 8 ft . on one side
and 12 ft . on the other there ' s 86 ft . You have 14 ft . to spare .
G . Hoy : He has it to spare as far as that is concerned but lacks 50 ft . but
the only thing is he has this deed to show it ' s been this size lot
for this length of time and- -what are your feelingsoon _ it ?
Janet Bell : What else can he do with it if he can ' t build on it and it was
deeded back in the ' 50 ' s as a building lot , - - if he can ' t get any more
land ?
D . Snell : There isn ' t anything you can do with it .
F . Fouts : It can just set there .
D . Snell : Unless you rent it to someone for a garden .
Janet Bell : He bought the lot in good faith .
G . Hoy : He bought it long enough ago , - -he isn ' t trying to slip anything by us .
D . Snell : I don ' t know whether you should ask an attorney what his opinion is on
these lots that were given out before zoning .
G . Hoy : How long do we have before we have to vote on this ? 10 days or D . Snell : I don ' t know . You have the regulations , I haven ' t .
So 5 -
G . Hoy : I know we have a certain length of time . We don ' t have to vote on it
tonight . I think it would be a good idea to inquire a little bit as
long as we know the situation now . I didn ' t realize he had the deed
for as long back as he had . I just saw the For Sale sign and I
thought , - -
D . Snell : I knew that lot had been there for a long time , - - I think Gordon Mattoon
owned it at one time .
Janet Bell : He bought it in 1971 , - -when did zoning go in ?
G . Hoy : In 1972 .
Janet Bell : So , - - -
G . Hoy : What do you feel , Floyd ?
F . Fouts : I would like to have the other fellows here too . I think Dick and
George ought to know about this too . Dana thinks there isn ' t much
else we can do we should give it to them . What do you think ?
G . Hoy : My opinion was , before I came down tonight , that they weren ' t going
to get it without the 50 ft . but after listening to him and he did
try to buy ity- - I ' d like to talk to Bucko and a few other people and
get someone else ' s opinion on it .
Janet Bell : How many houses in that area have been built on 100 ft . lots ? There
must have been many houses that were built prior to the zoning , right ?
D . Snell : I think the one right straight across - - Todds , - -I ' m sure that is a
small lot .
G . Hoy : I question a realtor coming in and wanting to build on a lot too small
in an area like this . That is going to be one selling point that
wouldn ' t go over very big , I would say .
Janet Bell : But if there ' s ground around it , isn ' t going to make that much differ-
ence .
G . Hoy : But who ' s to say what the Groton Association will put in there ?
Janet Bell : Maybe he ' s hoping to get rid of it before they start developing .
G . Hoy : I definitely would like a little more time to think about it . How
about you , Janet ?
Janet Bell : Yes , I guess so . If no one feels very satisfied with their own thoughts
maybe we might all better wait on it a little bit and think about it .
I feel very sure in some respects but then in others I don ' t . I think
it ' s a shame .
G . Hoy : I think we owe him that much , - - to look into it a little bit before we
go ahead and vote . We can enlighten ourselves a little more .
F . Fouts : I think we ' re obligated to but on the other hand it would be better with
a house on it then grown up in weeds if it ' s possible at all .
D . Snell : That ' s low intensity up there . The regulations for low intensity say
"Lots with no public sewer available . . . . . . . . . . . . . . " That gives you a
Me 6 ,
D . Snell : little idea if the Health Department O . K . ' d . it because that is low
intensity up there .
G . Hoy : We do know there ' s gravel up there .
F . Fouts : There ' s good drainage up there , no question about that .
D . Snell : Now you take in agricultural , - - it doesn ' t read that way . I suppose
they figure that out in farm land , - -
G . Hoy : The area is there , - -you can get it if you pay enough .
G . HOY : Does that change the situation any ?
F . Fouts : We wouldn ' t be going far wrong according to that .
D . Snell : Not if the Health Department O . K . s it . I would think it would be up to
him to get the O . K . from the Health Department .
G . Hoy : That ' s what he said but would have to update this application .
D . Snell : Then they might hold out for 150 ft . frontage .
Janet Bell : They didn ' t before .
G . Hoy : Things are a little stricter now but so long as they said the soil and
drainage is good it isn ' t so apt to plug up as other ones would in
other areas .
G . Hoy : Why don ' t we plan on meeting a week from tonight and �each one of us
look into it a little bit more to satisfy ourselves so that we would
be more sure of what we are doing ?
D . Snell : You might be able to get Ben ' s opinion on it .
G . Hoy : I think we have to act on another variance , - - the Darlings , - -we never did
vote on that variance .
D . Snell : I talked to them once and she said they decided not to buy anyways . They
gave it up . But you should vote on it I would say to get it off your
minutes .
G . Hoy : Would one of you make a motion on it , - -whether to approve or disapprove
the variance of Tom Darling ?
F . Fouts : If they aren ' t interested any more , I move they we reject it .
Janet Bell : I second the motion .
Roll call was as follows : G . Hoy as Aye , J . Bell - Aye on F . Fouts - Aye .
The motion was carried unanimously .
Mr . Hoy adjourned the meeting at 8 : 45 P . M .
Respectfully submitted ,
Jo eph ne Bell
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1
1No FOR OFFICE USE ONLY
1
APPLICATION FOR AREA VARIANCE Application No .
Date Received (Z . B.A. )
To the Date County Referral L / 7
Zoning Board of Appeals Hearing Date—
Date of Decision— r�? _ ( � 76 .
_
Decision
A . Statement of Ownership .
The applicant(s)RICHARD . J . WILSEN ( pro osed buyer ) - BUD & SHIRLEY OSTRANDER
( present owners )
(is) (are) the owner(s) of property situated at the following address CHIPMAN CORNERS ROAD
GROTON NEW YORK
Town Farm Lot No, Subdivision
Lot No. 121 - 1 - 2 Zoning . District Classification L
The above-described property was •-acquired_ -by _.applicant(s) on Purchase agreement contingent on
the use of the lot for building purposes . The agreement signed on 12 / 22 / 75
by Richard J . Wilsen , buyer and Bud and Shirley Ostrander , sellers .
B. Request.
Applicant(s) request(s) an area variance for the above-described property to permit the following :
Richard J . Wilsen requests the right to build a one family , three
bedroom . dwelling on : the present site . .
as shown on the attached plan drawn to scale (see below for plot plan details) .
C . Reason for Request.
Note : The law requires that the following must be established in fact before a variance can be granted . (Ex-
plain fully how your case conforms to the following conditions . )
1 . Strict application of the provisions ' of the Zoning Ordinance would result in practical difficulties or un-
necessary hardship inconsistent with the general purpose and intent of the Zoning Ordinance of the
Zoning Ordinance of the Town of Groton forthe following reasons :
The building lot size 100 ' x 3501 was purchased by Bud and Shirley
Ostrander in 1971 . Zoning regulations now require at least 30 ; 000 _
sq . ft . and 1S0 ft , frontageconsequently_ the 100 ft . frontage on
this lot does not comply . If Mr . Wilsen cannot use the lot for
building_purposes he has no need for it and the Ostanders would not
be able to sell the lot as such .
r
PUBLIC NOTICE
�� HOMES TOWN OF GROTON
PLEASE TAKE NOTICE that
Dick Wilsen Real Estate, I rnc _ a public hearing will be held at
119 W . GREEN STREET the Town ' Hall , Conger, ITHAGA , NEW YORK 14850 Boulevard, Groton; New York by
TELEPHONE RESIDENCE 844-9470 the Town Board of Appeals on the
607 272- 1 122 (APPOINTMENT ONLY) 4th day of February, 1976 at 8 : 00
P . M . on the application of
Richard J . Wilsen for a variance
RICHARD J . WILSEN , PRESIDENT of the Zoning Ordinance, Article
LICENSED REAL ESTATE BROKER REALTOR VIII , Section 803, in regard to
frontage . All persons interested
- — -- - - - - - shall be heard.
Gordon Hoy
Chairman
j-c-1-21
ICKunLs Y'
RE9 _.
INC.
106 Church Street Groton, N.Y. 13073
IJA
RF/FLTORm f
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Telephone
898-3778 Associate Broker
DOROTHY HIGGINS