HomeMy WebLinkAbout1971-12-01 e
SPECIAL INFORMATION MEETING
Held at
GROTON CENTRAL SCHOOL
Wednesday , December 1 , 1971
PRESENT : H . Dow B . Bucko , Attorney T . Niederkorn ,
G . Totman G . Munson Egner & Niederkorn
Z . Kane C . Holden
R . Cotanch L . Sovocool Peter Creelman - OPC
E . McLaughlin L . Graves
General public .
H . Dow : It ' s encouraging to see you here tonight with the weather
and the roads what they are and , if you are farmers and
live up our way , you didn ' t have any electricity after
6 P . M .
This is the fourth meeting of its kind that we have had
since the loth of November . We started in West Groton ,
then Groton City and McLean and as I said tonight will
be the fourth of the special information meetings on
the Land Use Ordinance , commonly known as the zoning
ordinance .
I remember last time I was in this room there was a
similar meeting but it was pitched in the direction of
the Village .
Tonight . we are sort of pitching it out of the Village into
the Town area and thanks to Ben here spending a lot of time
putting all this on transparencies .
However it won ' t be the easiest thing to read from a distance
so I ' ll stand here and read it as it is necessary to point
out certain facts .
To begin with this ordinance project , which is underway , has
quite a history . I know that most of you know the history
and yet fin the event that you don ' t think it would be a good
beginning tonight to start back an tellyou about the origin
of this project , how it came to involve our consultant from
Ithaca , Tom Niederkorn of the firm of Egner & Niederkorn , and
how the Town Board and Supervisor Claude Holden were in the
planning stages , and , as time passed , a planning committee was
appointed , and so on right up to the most recent act of the
Town Board .
One of the two fellows here tonight , who was in on the original
deal , is Ron Cotanch and I ' m going to ask him to start way back
with the Federal legislature and bring us up to date to the 701
beginning ,
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R . Cotanch : We ' ll start back in the spring of 1968 when Claude Holden
was supervisor and the need was seen for a planning process
in Groton and the Town and Village Boards , acting simultane -
ously , appointed Planning Boards on April 1 , 1968 . We were
assigned many tasks and , among them , was to formulate a plan
of development for the Town and Village of Groton . The Town
Planning Board and Village Planning Board talked to various
people and the former went through and , probably in the Fall ,
a committee was appointed to get things going a little faster
and to work on a smaller basis and move along faster and that
committee then is the same as it is today . From the Village
was Roger Hastings and Art Clark , and George Totman and my -
self from the Town . The committee later came to be called
the 701 Planning Committee .
We went to work and found right away there were three ways
the comprehensive plan could be developed - - 1 . we could
undertake this project ourselves with the aid of local people ,
- - 2 . we could hire a consultant to do this work , and 3 . we
could hire a consultant to do the work through the 701
financing plan . We rejected the first idea right off because
none of us had the time or knowledge and so we went ahead dis -
cussing the second and third alternatives with the idea of
applying for 701 funding and , if available , fine and , if not ,
could go back to the Village and Town Boards and ask them if
they would want to pay the shot for hiring a consultant directly .
The difference in cost was high , - - we went into the 701 pro -
ject and , 701 is just the number given to a section of 1954
Housing Act which enables the Federal and State govermnents to
assist local municipalities to finance comprehensive study plans .
If we hired a consultant directly would have to pay 100% of the
cost , - if we hired one through a 701 project he would do the
same studies and the Federal government would pay 4 / 6th of the
total cost , the State would pay 1 / 6th and 1 / 6th would be borne
by the local government , - - in this case the Village and the Town
go together and would then each pay 827o or 17% of the total . This
is the only reason really that we went into the 701 financing
problem .
One of the prerequisites of going into the 701 financing was we
had to interview 3 consultants and we were furnished a list of
names by the State office in Syracuse , - -4 of these firms were
from upstate New York and 3 from the New York City area . We
wrote to all 4 of the upstate firms and three of them agreed to
come and be interviewed . After interviewing them a vote of the
committee , the supervisor and the mayor was taken and it was de -
cided to recommend , through the Planning Boards , the hiring of
the firm of Egner and Niederkorn of which Mr . Tom Niederkorn is
here this evening and he did practically all of the work .
With his assistance we went into applying for funds and , I would
like at this time to thank one gentleman , who doesn ' t live in the
Town of Groton any more , who any time we ran into red tape George
or I would get in the car and take it up to Chuck Lillie and he
would take care of it . He has since moved to Texas but I think
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it ' s appropriate to thank him as he did a lot of work for us .
The funding was made available to us in about 4 months and in
the spring of 1970 we were advised formally that it had been
approved and on July 1 , 1970 the project started .
We applied originally for a one -year project but because of
State and Federal cutbacks in financing were forced to divide
I t up into two years - - $ 22 , 500 total - $ 18 , 000 for the first
year and then told to apply for the second year funding and
have been advised $ 5 , 500 is available to us .
G . Totman : The $ 23 , 000 is the total - not what we are going to pay ?
R . Cotanch : Yes . We pay 17% of that total which amounts to about 90 (,% per
person for the Town .
H . Dow : Thank you , Ron . I ' d like to introduce the newest member of our
planning committee , - - Ed McLaughlin , - - Ed stand up and take
a bow . The lady on our Planning Board is the lady in white
there , - - Zana Kane .
We thought perhaps the best way to get into the subject tonight
is to get a picture of this Town in terms of the districts we
are going to be talking about - - the M , or medium intensity
zone , the L or low intensity zone , and the A or agricultural
zone , which is the greatest in area .
I am going to point these out on the map and Ben will blow it up
on the screen .
(Mr . Dow then pointed to the different sections in the Town
explaining the white is the village proper and that tonight
we are concerned primarily with the areas round and about the
Village . He also commented that around the village is a border
of green that is known as the low intensity zone which means an
area where the mix between residential home units and business
units is quite even . He explained that the pink area , known as
the medium intensity zone , is the area in which commercial
development would be encouraged to a greater extent than in
the green or white areas . This pink area extends east along
Route 222 towards Cortland and extends about 1300 ft . either
way from the highway north and south . )
H . Dow : Later on when we project it on the screen you will see three
columns A L and M and the recommended usages for those three
areas pictured here . Ben , can we blow that up on this map
here ? (Mr . Dow pointed out the various areas on the map . )
(Mr . Bucko then showed various transparencies on the screen
( and Mr . Dow read parts of each of the following aloud and
( asked for comments as he went along ) .
PURPOSE OF ZONING
ARTICLE III - Definitions
ARTICLE IV - Land Use Control Areas
ARTICLE V - General Provisions
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Mr . Jeffery : I ' d like to ask a question , - - the - - - - - - - - restricted zone , - -
may be extended to 100 ft . Explain this .
Be Bucko : Let ' s say you are in an agricultural section adjacent to a low
intensity area and it may say that you cannot have a shed out in
the low intensity but you can have it in the agricultural zone .
If you have a - - - - - - - - - - - out in the agricultural but may not be
allowed in the low intensity but your land is adjacent or partly
in low intensity area , then you can extend it into that area for
100 ft .
Mr . Jeffery : Does that mean you couldn ' t build it up or put homes on it or
anything like that ?
Be Bucko : No , - -you will find , as we get into it , that most anything allowed
in any district is allowed in agricultural . We would have to get
into specifics which we will do in Article VI . In the agricultural
you . may have a farm and houses and a development but you may not
have a drive - in theater unless you get a special permit .
Mr . Dow explained that everyone likes to feel when they own
their own land that they can do anything they please but
when you think of it that if everyone does this we will be
on each other ' s toes so what an ordinance comes down to is
to give everybody a fair shake .
Mr . Jeffery : I believe in that but what teeth do you have in it to enforce
this ?
H . Dow : If this goes through , the Town Board will appoint a Board of
Appeals and that body will report violations to the Enforcement
Officer and there will be three bodies to enforce the rules , - -
the Town Board , Town Planning Board and Zoning Commission and ,
finally , the Board of Appeals so anyone needing a variance ,
special permit , or what -have -you will havd to be cleared through
these Boards so enforcement will be pretty complete .
Be Bucko : Mr . Jeffery there will be an enforcement officer who will be
accepting permits for building and he will see that they are
right before he issues the permits .
W . Green : It says east from the Salt Road , - that ' s agricultural area ?
H . Dow : At this point the medium zone stops at the Salt Road ,
W . Green : These are permitted ?
H . Dow : Mr . Niederkorn , would you speak on this , - - I believe what Mr .
Green has in mind ( and he lives on the eastern side of the
Salt Rd . ) is the permanency of the zoning policies at this
time .
T . Niederkorn : He can use it for whatever he wants to use it for .
W . Green : If it goes industrial , can I keep farming ?
T . Niederkorn : Yes but if you want to sell it for residential or industrial use
you can do so .
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More discussion was held on this subject by Ben Bucko , W ;
Green , T . Niederkorn and others .
W . Green : I have a wood lot and I had a customer last summer that wanted
to build right in the woods but it says there the lot has to
be 70% open , - - does that stop me from selling that lot to him?
Be Bucko : No , - - only 30% of the land can be occupied by the building) so all
he has to do is build a house on that lot but if he takes up
more than 30% for the building , he is limited there .
It says that a minimum of 70% can be open space , - - that means there
cannot be a building in there but there can be trees , shrubs , open
porches , garage , barn , accessory building , but the main building
itself can occupy only a maximum of 30% of the lot .
More discussion was held on this subject by W . Green , R . Cotanch ,
T . Niederkorn and others .
Mr . Jeffery : Now what about trailers ? Are you going to allow them to have
a certain amount of room ?
Be Bucko : As far as side and front yard restrictions are concerned , they
will be the same as for single family residences .
Mr . Dow then read aloud : ARTICLE VI - LAND USE ACTIVITIES
G . Totman : As you mention this , you are referring to anything new coming
in and not anything that is already here ?
H . Dow : Right . What is already here precedes the ordinance .
Mr . Dow then went on to read : ARTICLE VII - Regulations -
Agricultural Area .
W . Green : I had my permit for sewage all approved .
Be Bucko : If it is still effective you should be able to use it for
a new purchaser but you should check with the County Health
Department to be sure .
Mr . Jeffery : You will show partiality , - - already you demand 150 ft . and
yet allowed Yaman to cut it to 83 ft .
Be Bucko : That ' s in the Village and the Village is not part of the Town .
More discussion was held on this by Mr . Bossard , Mr . Jeffery , Be Bucko ,
R . Cotanch , and others .
Mr . Jeffery : Supposing I want to turn my farm into a development and put in
lights , sewer , etc . would you still let me do it at 83 ft . or
the 150 ft . , -which ?
R . Cotanch : The 83 ft . was granted to Mr . Yaman by the Village Board .
Hr . Jeffery : It isn ' t what you know , but who you know !
R . Cotanch : You said it !
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B . Bucko : Let me explain , - -number one you would have to file a plat of
the area showing where you were going to put everything , - -
then the Planning Board might reduce the 150 ft . but that ' s
the Planning Board ' s decision but , if you didn ' t have sewers ,
150 would have to apply and in fact if the County Health De -
partment said you needed 250 ft . where your land is , you would
have to go to that .
More discussion was held on this subject by B . Bucko , Mr . Jeffery ,
H . Dow and others .
Mr . Dow then read : ARTICLE VIII - Regulations - Low Intensity Area .
ARTICLE IX - Regulations - Medium Intensity Area .
ARTICLE X - Special Conditions and Special Permits .
PLANNED DEVELOPMENT AREA ,
ARTICLE XI - Off - Street Parking
ARTICLE XII - Signs
ARTICLE XIII - Non - conforming Uses .
W . Green : What papers would these be published in?
H . Dow : The Groton paper , - Journal and Courier and , possibly , the Ithaca
Journal .
B . Bucko : Are you talking about variances , Mr . Green ,
W . Green : About most anything that has to be put in the paper .
B . Bucko : The notice of a variance would be published in the Journal and
Courier . Now if your neighbor asks for a variance and you are
within a certain distance from himjthere is one step more that
wasn ' t mentioned , you would be given notice by mail .
W . Green : I wanted to make sure what the legal paper would be .
B . Bucko : The Journal and Courier is the official newspaper .
More discussion was held on this by B . Bucko , Mr . Jeffery
and others .
Mr . Dow then read : ARTICLE XIV - Administration .
Mr . Houston asked what was required to build .
Mr . Bucko explained that you would apply and be given a
building permit and then , after your plans were approved ,
would be given a Certificate of Occupancy .
More discussion was held on this by Mr . Jeffery , W . Green ,
B . Bucko and others .
Mr . Dow then read : ARTICLE XV - Appeals
ARTICLE XVI - Amendments .
Mr . Jeffery : In case of a protest of the proposed change it says " such
amendment shall not become effective except by favorable
vote of four members of the Town Board" , - - in other words
they could railroad it through .
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• Be Bucko : If the change is unreasonable the Courts can upset it .
Mr . Jeffery : They have too much power - -when they can override the people that
voted them in in the first place . We elect you officials and
you turn around and do as you please and ram something through
against the people who put you in .
Be Bucko : 20% protested , - 80% are in favor , - it has to be 4 out of 5 members
voting for that amendment .
W . Green : I would figure one member of the Board would wash the other
fellow ' s hand and they would stick together pretty good .
Be Bucko : You haven ' t been to Town meetings , sir .
W . Green : They are a bfinch of crooks .
More discussion was held by C . Holden , Be Bucko , G , Totman ,
H . Dow and others .
Mr . Dow then read aloud : ARTICLE XVII - Violations and Penalties .
W . Green : You could violate the law unconsciously .
H . Dow : That comes before a board of one ' s neighbors and there seems
to be a balancing . e along the line and it ' s hard to get
an unfair deal .
More discussion was held on this by Be Bucko , W . Green and
others .
Mr . Jeffery : Will this be put to a vote or just run through ?
Be Bucko : No . The Zoning Commission has fulfilled its obligations under
the law and now they will present a final draft to the Town
Board . The Town Board will then schedule a public hearing and
publish the entire ordinance in a newspaper , -probably the Journal
and Courier and then there will be notices in the Cortland Stand -
ard and Ithaca Journal as to when the hearing will be held . They
will then hold the hearing and decide whether to pass it or not .
Some discussion was held on gas leases by Be Houston , B . Bucko
and others and the question was raised as to how the ordinance
would effect this . Mr . Bucko made the comment that he hoped
people had not taken these gas leases as if they were read
carefully you would find that if you wanted to dig a well or
put a building on the land you could not do so without permission
of the company .
Mr . Dow thanked everyone for coming and the meeting adjourned
at 9 : 45 P . M .
Re ectfully submitted ,
Jos P hin.e Bell
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1 H . Dow : December 1st .
R . Cotanch : We could then have a meeting on December 14 and know what
the Town Board has done or has not done .
H . Dow : I think we should have our meeting following December 1 and
when would that be ?
G . Totman : The 15th .
H . Dow : That would be the third Wednesday ?
R . Cotanch : The regular meeting would be the 15th .
H . Dow : Alright , - - let ' s schedule our next meeting to be December
15th .
E . McLaughlin : I have a question , - - has the money for the second phase
been O . K . ' d already ?
H . Dow : $52601 .
E . McLaughlin : Is there a date when everything has to be finished?
R . Cotanch : Yes , - - there is . It has been going from July 1 to June 30
no matter when the contracts were signed . Now it is going to
go from the time that the supervisor and the village mayor
sign the contracts and , to my knowledge , they have not been
signed as yet , so haven ' t started our second phase . Last
year they were signed about this time but still we were going
an from July 1 but under the new State law they will go from
the time the contract is signed .
G . Totman : Did you get a letter from the Office of Planning Services from
what he is talking about right now ? According to this , Dan
Carey got the letter .
H . Dow : Let me read the letter , dated September 15th (Mr . Dow read
the letter aloud ) . I went to Dan with it and he said it
doesn ' t apply because there is no intention on our part to
apply for additional funds in the fiscal year .
H . Dow : Does anyone care to add anything more to our meeting before
we proceed to close it ? Zana , - - do you have anything ?
Z . Kane : No .
H . Dow : I can ' t think of anything myself .
E . McLaughlin : Other than that we are going to lose you !
Z . Kane : That ' s right !
• H . Dow : When we meet December 15th I think we ought to plan on
accepting my resignation and planning on a replacement to
the Planning Board . George will naturally succeed to my
spot and I honestly think that we should be giving some
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H . Dow : thought now to a successor to fill the vacancy but whoever
we come up with will have to be approved by the Town Board .
R . Cotanch : Couldn ' t they pick out one from the names we gave them for
the last vacancy ?
H . Dow : Wishful thinking , I suppose , - -but I do hope that one of
you two and I can ' t see how George can be chairman of this
Board and sit on the Board of Appeals , - -but I do think one
of the two of you gentlemen (Ron or George) should sit on
the Board of Appeals because there should be liaison between
this Board and it .
H . Dow : If there are no more points to be brought up , I ' ll entertain
a motion to adjourn .
E . McLaughlin : I so move .
Z . Kane : I second it .
H . Dow : Those in favor say Aye ? The meeting is adjourned .
Respectfully submitted ,
Josephine Bell
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