HomeMy WebLinkAbout1971-11-10 SPECIAL GENERAL INFORMATION MEETING
Held at the West Groton
Community Center Hall on
Wednesday , November 10 , 1971
8 P . M . to 10 P . M .
PRESENT : Glenn Munson - Town Supervisor
Be Bucko - Town Attorney
Lois Baker - Town Clerk
L . Sovocool - Town Board Member
V . Rankin - Town Board Member
H . Dow - Chairman , Town Planning Board
G . Totman - Vice - Chairman , Town Planning Board
Z . Kane - Member , Town Planning Board
R . Cotanch - Member , Town Planning Board
F . Scheffler - Member , Town Planning Board
T . Niederkorn - Egner & Niederkorn Associates , Inc .
A . Clark - Ithaca Journal
General Public
G . Munson - You all know what we ' re here for - - an information meeting
on the Land Use program for the Town of Groton and you all
know whom I am - - we have representatives here from the
Town Board , the Planning Board and Lois Baker our Town Clerk
and Mrs . Bell our secretary . I will be turning the meeting
over to Mr . Hicks Dow , who is the chairman of the Planning
Board . We appointed the Town Planning Board two and a half
years ago to work on this program and they have done a lot
of other worthwhile things also like the mobile homes ordinance ,
the junkyard ordinance and things like that and if this Land
Use ordinance is passed by the Town Board they will be included .
They went into the 701 Project which is financed by State ,
Federal , Town and Village funds and have worked many long
hours on this along with Mr . Niederkorn who was the engineer
selected for this job and the results are in these packages
here which you can look at .
H . Dow : We have one more addition to incorporate before they are finished .
(Mr . Dow passed out copies to all present . )
G . Munson : Now I ' ll turn the meeting over to you , Hicks .
H . Dow : Thank you , Glenn . As you have just said what we are about to do
and talk about this evening has been in the making for over two
years and we , who are on the Planning Board , are acting with the
Town Board who appointed us , in bringing all of this information
together and getting it to the public and this meeting tonight
is our first step in that direction . We will be in Groton City
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next week and in McLean the following week and eventually
in Groton , itself .
I ' d like to add two more introductions - - Ron Cotanch a
member of the 701 and Planning Board and Mr . Tom Niedercorn
from Ithaca who is a partner in the firm of Egner & Nieder -
korn and they were the consultants from the very beginning
of this whole plan we are showing here tonight and over the
past several weeks every time we were together talking about
this creation you have in front of you couldn ' t help but
think when we get all through if it is accepted by the public
it will actually be a protective measure to protect them and
their heirs and well being over the years to come by having
standards to guide by and ordinances to fall back on and we.
won ' t ever have to be afraid of someone too radical mov( I in
and leave us with property less valuable than it was an do
extreme things we would all regret , and we would like you to
keep this in mind as studying somethtAg that is a protective
measure for all of us .
Now , Ben Bucko , our attorney , took this 57 page document you
see there and he condensed it into a twenty - one page outline
and we will project that through this machine here and as
you see points you want explained or expanded upon will
refer back to the full outline . Probably the best way to
start , - - and I ' m not sure it ' s the best because this is our
first crack at it - - but think it would be enlightening to
all of us to look at the map we have here because in this
outline you have you are going to find mentioned in there
Zone A , L and M . Now A is the agricultural zone and that
is the agricultural area around about the Village of Groton
and its environs . West Groton is in the L zone which means
limited or low intensity and low intensity , as best I can
define it , is an area where you have a big inter -mix of
domestic dwellings , homes and commercial units but the
emphasis is on the mixed - - you have fewer commercial
enterprises coming in to populate this green area then you
do in this pink , medium , area which is along Route 222 and
according to our scale here extends from the highway up to
about a maximum of 1300 feet . Now that medium zone actually
means that even though there are residences there and homes ,
it is also the area where commercial enterprises in greater
number can move in than in this green area so it ' s a medium
area in the sense that businesses can move in and if that
is confusing to you it ' s par for the course but that is the way
they are on this map so when we talk about these different
zones think of the colors .
B . Bucko : You said I condensed this from 57 to 21 pages - - let me say
this , - there are certain areas you cannot condense such as
definitions , general provisions , special permits and so forth .
What I did was go through this ordinance and left out defini -
tions and general provisions of the ordinance in this condensed
version because they are specific and cannot be condensed -
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you have to go through them specifically but when you come
into land use control areas like low intensity areas this
is where I did the condensation instead of making a whole
sentence and saying 30 , 000 sq . ft . minimum I just abbreviated
so don ' t be misled . . . . did not change the language - - just
hit the high points of it .
H . Dow : Alright . This is our Definition of Title which shall be
known as the 1971 Zoning Ordinance of the Town of Groton :
(Mr . Dow then read this aloud for everyone . )
B . Bucko : Thanks to Mr . Niederkorn all we had to do was eliminate a
few words without writing the whole thing over again . Thank
you , Tom .
H . Dow : Now I don ' t know if I ' m serving any purpose reading all this , - -
is it easier or would you prefer to read it yourselves . What
do you think , Lou ?
L . Sovocool : I think you ought to read it yourself .
Mr . Dow then read Article IV aloud .
B . Bucko : When you get into the land use you have to go back to
the ordinance and see the chart here on page 12 . Article
VI on pages 12 , 13 , 14 and 15 are the different land use
activities allowed in the various areas .
H . Dow : Now again , Column A is agricultural , L is low intensity or
the green area on the map and M is the pink section on the
map .
B . Bucko : They show you in which category activities are permitted .
H . Dow : If a question comes to mind , we have with us tonight
members of the 701 Committee who , with Mr . Niederkorn ' s
help , can throw any light on it that may be needed .
H . Stewart : Which do we follow this , or the Constitution of the United
States ?
You ' re a lawyer , - - answer it .
B . Bucko : The Constitution of the State of New York and of the United
States provides certain inalienable rights that each person
has a right to his private property , his personal property ,
real property , -whatever - - - the zoning ordinance , as such and
I don ' t care whether it ' s this one or any other as long as it
abides by the rights provided by the Constitution of the
State of New York or the United States is constitutional and
legal - - it says , in effect , and this ordinance I have gone
through it , - - there ' s nothing in here that is unconstitutional ,
- you have a right to your property but the municipality in
which you live whether it ' s local , County , State or Federal ,
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has the right to regulate the use of that property for your
benefit and others and these regulations have nothing in them
that can be held unconstitutional .
H . Stewart : How come they are talking about it on TV now ?
B . Bucko : They are referring to one more restrictive than this . The
Court cases are decided on the facts and have nothing to do
with politicians and you may feel that this is unconstitutional
and that it wouldn ' t hold up but it would .
More discussion was held on this subject by Mr . Bucko
and Mr . Stewart , and Mr . Dow ,
H . Dow : Let ' s go on for now and if you have questions at the end
will get together in a huddle so we can see more of the
pages we are talking about because we each have things we
may want to discuss .
Now , - Article VII Section 700 series - Agricultural Area .
This section contains areas in the Town of Groton where
rural characteristics are dominant and where mixed patterns
are considered appropriate .
(Mr . Dow read aloud Article VII . )
Article VIII - Regulations for Low Intensity Area - - which
is the green section we pointed out in the beginning , -the fringe around the Village north on Cayuga Street and
south on South Main Street - -
(Mr . Dow then read Article VIII aloud . )
H . Dow : Article IX - Medium Intensity Area - - which is recognized as
area on Route 222 east of Groton about 1300 ft . deep at the
deepest part from the highway - north and south by scale .
(Mr . Dow read Article IX aloud . )
Some discussion was held by Mr . Dow , Mr . Stewart and Mr .
Bucko re . limits for side lines .
H . Dow : Article X - Special Conditions and Special Permits .
(Mr . Dow read this Article X aloud . )
B . Bucko : The last two paragraphs are very important and then after he
shows you those two it has to go back to pages 12 , 13 , 14 and 15
of your zoning ordinance which have been read above -this means special permit has to be issued to allow it in
that particular area .
H . Dow : Alright , - - let me read this because these special conditions
are the things that are sometimes magnified out of proportion .
(Mr . Dow then read Section 1002 aloud . )
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B . Bucko : This is more for planned development , - - in other words if
going into clustered or planned development and say take a
plot of three acres in size and want to vary it and put up
two - three buildings , this is the way you would have to go
about doing it .
H . Dow : Someone brought this up tonight , so why not take the time to
read this paragraph aloud ? (Mr . Dow then read Section 1003 : 1
aloud . )
B . Bucko : Let me review this in general terms . We ' re talking about
anybody that wants to build housing units within a three -
acre parcel which may not meet the requirements of an
individual home , - - in other words wants to consolidate a
housing unit and the developer has to give the TOwn . Board
a plan showing the stores , etc . and all other factual things
that are important to decide whether or not this should be
approved . The Town Board submits it to the Planning Board and
they review it and approve or disapprove and must submit it
to the Town Board for consideration . If the Town Board dis -
approves the recommendation then you have to have a vote of
the majority plus one to defeat it , - otherwise it is approved .
If it is approved , then before any construction can start , the
developer must submit the final plan for approval and has to
go through the same procedure to make sure that everything the
Town Board and Planning Board says he can or cannot do is on
this plan . This may be time consuming but don ' t want developers
building houses and finding the Town and people stuck with
something nobody wanted and this is the reason that this is
in here .
C . Holden : This would be tied right in with one pertaining to trailer
parks ?
B . Bucko : Very true . It ' s actually protecting the people more than
anybody because they would be buying the homes and if they
don ' t have sewer and water they are stuck .
H . Dow : Now we get to the next stage where a year later plans are
subject to review .
(Mr . Dow read Section 1003 . 5 etc . on review aloud . )
B . Bucko : In the agricultural section you may have planned development
but if the developer doesn ' t go through with it in the re -
quired time or doesn ' t submit reasons why he doesn ' t continue
it reverts back to agricultural use .
Some discussion was held on this by B . Bucko and H . Stewart
on requirements of how much land so you can get water and
Mr . Bucko said the final decision on this rested with the
Health Department .
Mrs . DeMonde asked how this would effect her farm in
the low intensity area of West Groton .
B . Bucko : All they are concerned about is family residences - - so
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far as farms are concerned it has no effect .
Mrs . DeMonde : It said buildings . I was wondering if the ordinance
automatically covers farm structures , too . Under what
conditions would this be allowed ?
B . Bucko : You wouldn ' t need a permit , - -not for accessory farm
buildings .
Mrs . DeMonde : You need a permit for any new building - even it it ' s
a farm structure .
B . Bucko : That ' s true - - if you have 100 acres the only permit you
would have to worry about would be within 8 ft . of . . . . . .
More discussion was held on this between Mr . Bucko
and Mrs . DeMone .
R . Cotanch : I think you will find that all is O . K. in farming zone
Definitions - Section 17 - - there would have to be no
permit for any farm building unless it was closer to the
road than defined .
B . Bucko : The point she is raising is under Article VIII - - if she
wants to put up a silo = -
R . Cotanch : It doesn ' t include silos ,
Mrs . DeMonde : It should be included in there .
R . Cotanch : That ' s a good point - - it should be included .
B . Bucko : I think it should be added to 500 # 10 - — alright silos ,
grain elevators , etc .
H . Dow : I suggest a change in there that would add " for all
structures necessary to the operation of the farm other
than dwelling units " , - I think that would be better .
B . Bucko : Yard limitations , etc . - - I added silos and grain elevators
but I think Hick ' s comments are better .
R . Cotanch : The only time you would have to get a permit for this is if
it is too close to the side of the road .
H . Dow : Should we go from here to Off Street Parking ? Article XI -
(Mr . : Dow read this aloud ) .
Mr . Dow also read aloud Article XII - Section 1200 - Signs
Article XIII - Non- Conforming Uses .
B . Bucko : Go back to the other articles in our proposed zoning ordinance
and you will notice that if you have a roadside stand or
building already that is not allowed in that particular area
or don ' t meet the side yard requirements , etc . because you
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are there now you can continue to use that as it is . You
are allowed to do this under this Non- Conforming Use because
you were there before the zoning ordinance so you can con-
tinue to exist and use it as it is . If you transfer the
property from you to another purchaser it continues to be
legal under this provision of the ordinance . However you
will find that if you change it from one use to another you
may not be able to continue using it , or if you abandon it
for so many days may not be able to continue using it for that
purpose . These are the provisions that deal with that if you
leave it as it is you have no problem but if you change it
you may have to comply with what the ordinance says you must
do in certain circumstances .
R . Cotanch : How long does it have to be vacant ?
B . Bucko : 365 days .
G . Totman : It ' s on page 45 .
B . Bucko read this aloud from page 45 and some discussion was held on it .
H . Dow : Article XIV - Section 1400 - Enforcement
Article XV - Appeals - both of these were read aloud by
Mr . Dow .
Some discussion was held on Appeals by G . Totman and
B . Bucko , and Mr . Dow .
H . Dow : Now we get to Procedure and then the last page which is of
interest to all of us - - the Amendments - -
(Mr . Dow then read Section 1503 aloud and also Article XVI)
B . Bucko : This simply means that the Town Board has the right to
make amendments as needed .
H . Dow : Added to that thought - - in case of protest against such
amendment signed by owners or by 20% of all land owners
within 100 ft . from the boundary of the area of land to
be changed by such amendment - - it shall not become
effective except by vote on it by at least 4 members of
the Town Board ,
C . Holden : If it effected county land who does that go to ?
B . Bucko : All we would do would be to notify Frank Ligouri that
the proposed zone which is going to be proposed effects
something within 500 ft . of county or state or highway rights -
then it ' s the County Planning Agency - really his committee .
H . Dow : This is actually the final page which deals with violations and
penalties - - Article XVII (Mr . Dow then read this aloud ) .
H . Dow : That concludes the outline and I want to thank everyone for
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coming out . By the way , - - who has some questions they
would like to bring up ?
C . Holden : Shouldn ' t it be emphasized here that studying this out -
line and thinking about it might be better and there will
be three more meetings to come to - - in Groton City ,
McLean and at the Groton School and if there are any other
questions can go to these other meetings and bring the
questions up then ?
Some discussion was held between Mr . Bucko and Mr .
Stewart re , why these regulations were sometimes
necessary for the benefit of all and how it was
necessary to encourage more people to move to
Groton in order to get taxes down , etc . etc .
The meeting adjourned at 10 P . M.
Respectfully submitted ,
Josephine . Bell
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