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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1971-06-16 Y t TOWN PLANNING BOARD MEETING June 16 , 1971 8500 P . M . an 10 : 00 P . M . PRESENTS H . Dow - Chairman R . Cotanch R . Gleason Z . Kane F . Scheffler G . Totman Others : J . Bell - Secretary A . Clark H . Dow : How many have read these minutes ? George , have you read them all ? G . Totman : Yes , - I ' ve read them . There ' s a slight error in them No - the last sentence on the last line - - it should be June instead of May . H . Dow : Do we have a motion to accept these minutes as written and corrected ? R . Cotanch : I so move . F . Scheffler : I second it . H . Dow : Any opposition ? The motion is carried . Alright now I would like to get on with one point - - there has been a lot of concern lately about the responsibility for the public meeting which was held recently on a Monday night dealing with mobile housing . At this point , it doesn ' t seem that it ' s necessary or important even to assign any blame as to who called it or who suggested it because it ' s already history and it was unfortunate but it did serve a purpose . It gave us the feeling that we are not well enough understood in the community , or our efforts aren ' t well enough appreciated to go forward with this thing at this time . We can charge it to poor timing . But I do think that we can ' t gain anything by making it an issue again or to feel wronged about it . So , - on tonight we might say we have — We it seems to me two or three courses to follow . We can put our Committee at rest or shelve it for awhile until such time as we feel that we ' re ready to go ahead with our work , or we can reconstitute it . We will have to have a new member in place of Dan and we might even have a little reshuffling of the officers of our own Committee to get off to a good start . I would like to start out right over here with George and ask him what he thinks of our Committee and what we should be doing and what we would do if we were doing the right thing . G . Totman : Well , - ON I agree with you now that this has gone to pass , - - that we ought to forget about it and being that it wasn ' t a part of our doing , we should forget it and we were operating twice a month before that happened and I see no reason for that particular thing to effect our objectives and goals as a Planning Board . - 1 - G . Totman : There seems to be some animosity between us and the Town Board which , naturally , has to be corrected in order for us to be effective . The approach apparently has to come from our side . I don ' t think that we will gain that by not having meetings or being shelved . I think as long as the Town Board saw a need for a Planning Board and appointed one as such we should continue to operate as a Planning Board . I do think that until the 701 Committee report is done and their recommend - ation is turned over to us , the way I understand it that is the proper procedure , - -we can look it over and recommend it to the Town Board and I think we have a job ahead of us and until that is done we , as a Planning Board , have a job to do . I feel , then , after we have turned that over to the Town Board and wait for their action , then it would be kind of needless for us to meet twice a month . I think we ought to meet once a month from that point on . I don ' t feel we should meet only on call , an if we didn ' t meet every month , I feel there would be no object in having a Planning Board . I think we should continue to operate the way we have been and go forward and , once we have completed this major task that we have taken on , then meet the first Wednesday of each month , unless something comes up where we have been charged with new responsibility by the Town Board . I do feel it ' s part of a Planning Board ' s obligations and responsibilities to look for themselves for things to help the community and they should have a liaison with the Town Board and take some ideas to them for their thoughts and then they bring it back to our committee for further action . Is that what you ' re looking for ? H . Dow : That ' s it , George . I think you put it in very good terms , too . Ron , we AM do you want to add to that ? R . Cotanch : I agree with what both of you gentlemen have said and from the 701 point of view we have spent a great deal of time and community money in formulat - ing this master plan and ordinance and I think we would be remiss if we didn ' t carry through with that planning and turn it over to the Town Board . H . Dow : That gives us a deadline , too , because it ' s a job that involves all three groups and it ' s incumbent upon us to at least give the Town Board our thinking on it before they take over . Zana , - what do you want to say ON — let ' s have a woman ' s point of view . Z . Kane : I wondered if there ' s some way - - the Town Board appoints us - - right ? Is there some way we can find out directly from them what they expect and would like us to be doing On - because of this friction here ? Is there some way we can go back to them and say just what do you expect and what should our functions be ? Perhaps having them make suggestions - - once we establish a good enough rapport so we can do this , would help . Some discussion was held on this subject by H . Dow , Z . Kane and others . H . Dow : By going to them and asking them first if they would kindly clear up what they feel is the area of our operation - - what they think we should be doing , - - as an auxiliary to them? More discussion was held on this by Z . Kane , G . Totman , R . Cotanch , H . Dow and others . H . Dow : Frank , - - what do you want to say on this ? - 2 ON ' o F . Scheffler : I was thinking maybe the Planning Board is moving a little bit too fast for them . Pushing them with new ideas and they just don ' t have time to soak in and maybe that ' s why this problem came up . The 701 Committee is working very good but maybe it ' s advancing a little too fast for them . More discussion was held on this by F . Scheffler , R . Cotanch , Z . Kane and others . H . Dow : I think you have a good point there and have hit the nail pretty well on the head . Roger ? R . Gleason : I ' m not just sure what I ' m supposed to be commenting on ? H . Dow : We started off tonight thinking maybe as a committee we should take opinions as to what goals we should work for - - should we take time off to reconstitute as a committee or keep going . We need a new member now that Dan has resigned . George suggested that nothing could be served by shelving our committee and that ' s about where we are at this point . R . Gleason : I think what Zana and Frank have said , I would agree with . I was thinking back over what we have done from the beginning while they were speaking and I guess my feeling or thinking about it is that we were originally set up when Claude Holden thought we would be able to move into the 701 program within a reasonable limit of time and while waiting for that to gel through the various governmental sources we were asked to do a couple of things for the Town Board - - one was a mapping of these numbers for the houses - - a numbering system , we as and then we were asked to work on a junkyard ordinance . H . Dow : May I interrupt - - was this Planning Board the one behind the numbering system ? You did a beautiful job . R . Gleason : Then we were asked to bring up this junkyard ordinance so that part I don ' t think we moved in - - the only thing is two years later began to wonder as we had a junkyard ordinance and nothing was happening . I ' m not quire sure , at this point , who is right because after all we have been asked to do a number of things and , again , they voted the funds for it and again we haven ' t actually proposed anything - - it ' s all been study work so far . Some discussion was held on this by R . Cotanch , R . Gleason , H . Dow and others . R . Gleason : The other thing that I was thinking is that when we get into the mobile homes - - I guess I ' ve had some comments on it in the past and I ' m con- vinced you have to take things as they are . H . Dow : We ' re . living in a time when money is so hard to come by it takes quite a selling job to convince people that poor people should be given a break . You have another force working here — On the community welfare - we have to think of things in terms of supplying services and the need for them now and in the future . In order to have good fire protection , etc . you need - 3 - H . Dow : tax dollars and need property to raise these tax dollars . The big families from the mobile homes , that are temporary , are families with many kids oft - times , who draw from the service budget more than a self- supporting family so have counter- forces working . More discussion on mobile homes was held by H . Dow , R . Gleason , G . Tot- man and others . H . Dow : If some farmula could be found whereby this Board and the Town Board could bring all the pros and cons , plus the minuses together , just as you have done citing both good and bad - - if we could somehow agree to a fair , workable ruling , which is known as an ordinance , which would be in a posi- tion to take care of the needs say on an agricultural highway road and al - so future needs in terms of property owners , either established with their homes or their farms , - - then we would be on the road to glory . That is what this is all about . Now it can ' t be done by taking either side com- pletely . You have to provide for folks who always want to have a little lot and then you have to provide for the folks who don ' t want their property value lessened and I have a feeling that some day we will be able to have a ruling which the two boards will accept and which the public will buy and I think that is the mission of this Board and the Town Board , Z . Kane : If there were more trailer parks this problem might even settle itself . More discussion was held on this by R . Gleason , Z . Kane , R . Cotanch , H . Dow and others . F . Scheffler : I think the Town Board kind of acted a little too fast on this - - to vote this whole thing down because at this meeting they only got one side of this here - - the trailer owners ' point of view - - they shouldn ' t have taken action on this and completely disposed of it . More discussion was held on this by F . Scheffler , Z . Kane and others . R . Cotanch : George went over to the file and took this out - - "Local Planning and Zoning - 1967 Edition" - - it says for the objectives of the Planning Board : "The Planning Board obtains data on which the legislative body can determine the development goals of the community . The Planning Board then acts as an advisory group to the legislative body . It keeps the elected officials up to date on the problems of the community ' s development . It continu- ally reanalyzes the community and its position , and the attitudes and desires of its citizens . It puts its current thinking on future development into the form of a master plan or general community plan . " This , then , says we should go forward looking for goals and present them to the Town Board . Now I have one other thing . On this Community Service Center . Art and Ben Bucko , Jake Hastings and myself spoke to the Community Ser - vice Center on the 701 project last week and , aside from the fact that I went in mad to begin with on this article they put in the paper and told them so and suggested they weren ' t being of service to the community , - aside from that , the evening was very well spent , I thought . They accepted and discussed the master plan and the zoning ordinance . Mr . Erlitz seemed to be completely on our side , suggesting things that had been proposed that I hadn ' t brought out in the presentation and the - 4 - R . Cotanch : evening got down to the end where they were trying to impress upon us their point of view that the poor people of Groton needed housing that was not available at the present time and that we are looking at things from two points of view and wanted us to consider theirs and they stressed very strongly the fact that Welfare doesn ' t pay enough for them to go into the apartments by the School , for instance - - they were suggesting that we needed more low income housing . We suggested that there was low income housing now in Groton . I think we can rest assured that the proper authorities in Ithaca have browbeat the people that put the article in the paper and that it won ' t happen again . They did say that they had talked to Mr . Bucko and quoted him verbatim . H . Dow : Did Mr . Bucko accept that ? R . Cotanch : No , he did not . More discussion was held on this by R . Cotanch , H . Dow and others . H . Dow : The biggest challenge we have to meet is low income housing . Did our friends suggest any way to bring this about ? R . Cotanch : No . H . Dow : From your knowledge of 701 is low income housing part and parcel of the whole scheme of 701 ' s part ? R . Cotanch : No . G . Totman : It ' s a very small part of it . H . Dow : Well , what do we call low income housing ? Are they individual trailers , condominiums , apartment houses ? R . Cotanch : That ' s a loaded question . In Ithaca the average house assessment is $14 , 000 . Low income houses cost $21 , 000 to $25 , 000 . More discussion was held on this by G . Totman , H . Dow , R . Gleason , R . Cotanch and others . R . Cotanch : The second phase of the 701 . will be to interview 150 low income families determining their needs , reviewing the fiscal policy of the Village and Town governments , determining what they can afford — On setting forth a policy for low income housing , determining whether it could best be served by private or public assistance . H . Dow : I don ' t think the government should take a darn thing more on . Our government funds are overloaded already . Z . Kane : And this is it so long as Welfare is available and all these things for nothing - - how can we get people to work and how can we buck this ? H . Dow : Well , Art - ON you ' re our reporter - - are you a member of this committee ? A . Clark : No . H . Dow : Do you represent us as our official news mediator . Is that your job ? - 5 - e a' A . Clark : I work for the newspaper when I ' m at this meeting . Sometimes I ' m here be - cause I ' m on the Village Planning Board , too . Z . Kane : Let us know which hat you ' re wearing ! A . Clark : Generally speaking when I ' m at this meeting , I ' m a reporter . H . Dow : You have been in the business long enough to know that it ' s incumbent on you to represent your constituency in a true light . I would like to make a suggestion but is there any better way you can see for spending our next meeting than in working our heads off to get some Town Board members in to talk with us ? A . Clark : Yes , - - you can see them individually and not just one or two . G . Totman : My personal feeling is that you would gain much more if you could get this group to feel that this is what we have been talking about and either appoint a person or committee from this group to go to the Town Board instead of us asking them to come to us . Some discussion was held on this subject by A . Clark , R . Gleason , G . Totman and others . A . Clark : The Town Board meets Tuesday night , the 6th of July . H . Dow : Should we appoint a committee of two to go to their meeting on the 6th ? For the purpose of bringing the Boards closer together ? F . Scheffler : I want to hear Art ' s reason for saying we should go to see them in- dividually . A . Clark : When you go in with a formal presentation you ' re hitting them cold and they don ' t have a chance to question you about it individually and you ' re saying here this is what the Planning Board thinks . More discussion was held on this by A . Clark , Z . Kane , H . Dow , R . Cotanch and others . G . Totman : Maybe we could say in our presentation that these are our thoughts and would like you to condense them and think about them and maybe at our- •/^ u next meeting - - H . Dow : My idea was to go to them with this approach right from the very beginn- ing . We ' re not there to tell them anything but want them to tell us what we can do to help them out more . I admit we have our shortcomings and ask for some suggestions and then at our next subsequent meeting can incorporate them . R . Cotanch : I still think it would be a good idea if we could send them each month some kind of condensed thing for them to think about . We have two items of business to bring up tonight , - - right ? H . Dow : Yes , - - we do . Do you want to bring up one of these , Ron ? 6 - R . Cotanch : We have been asked by the County Planning Board , through the Town Board , to recommend a representative on the County Planning Board . In other words , Ligouri wrote a letter to Glenn Munson , as well as to Frank Satterly , asking for a representative from the Village and the Town of Groton . At the last Town Board meeting , the Town Board agreed to hand it over to the Town Planning Board for their recommendation . We also have a vacancy recommended by this Board to be filled by some - one and have to elect a vice- president . Some discussion was held on these subjects . H . Dow : Well , you have heard Ron ' s comments now . Z . Kane : This person - - who goes on the County Planning Board - - would he still remain a member of our Board ? R . Cotanch : It can be anybody from the community , but if it ' s from our Board , they remain a member . More discussion was held on this by R . Cotanch , Z . Kane and others . R . Cotanch : Personally I think we would be remiss if we don ' t consider Dan Carey ' s name for the County Planning Board . H . Dow : Now the Town Board would like - - I think they meet tomorrow night ? A . Clark : Yes , I think there ' s a special meeting this week . H . Dow : They would like to have a name in their hopper by tomorrow night ? R . Cotanch : The name has to be in Ligouri ' s hopper by tomorrow night . H . Dow : I suggest we put Dan Carey ' s name in . Z . Kane : It would be great if he would accept it because his knowledge is needed . Mr . Dow phoned Mr . Carey re . this appointment and informed the Planning Board that , after talking to Mr . Carey , he had said he would accept this appointment if he was acceptable to the Town Board . H . Dow * I would like to appoint a committee of two people to go to the Town Board meeting on the mission we have already talked about - - just to pass the time of day with them and to sound out these fellows as to what they would like us to do in their interests and ours and I just wonder if Frank Scheffler would be one of those two ? F . Scheffler : There are a lot of men here who know more about these things than I do . H . Dow : We ' re not telling them anything - - we re asking their opinion on what they want us to do . F . Scheffler : I don ' t know too many of them . H . Dow : If I ask Zana to go along with you ? Z . Kane : Zana doesn ' t think she knows enough . OND 7 - i 0 s H . Dow : I ' m just playing it by ear . George is in the - - how about you and George , Frank? G . Totman : I think you ought to be one of the members of that committee . H . Dow : Alright , - - if I go , will you join me , Frank? F . Scheffler : Yes , - I ' ll go with you . H . Dow : That ' s on the 6th - - Tuesday night - - the 6th of July - - right here in this room . O . K . we have our committee of two for Tuesday night at 7@30 P . M . I ' ll call Glenn Munson and ask him if they will invite us and put us on the agenda . You mentioned two other points , Ron . R . Cotanch : 0 . K . - - we need to elect another official of this Board as Vice- Chairman and we need to think about recommending someone as a re- placement for Dan on the Board . H . Dow : What is your role on this Board , Brother Totman? G . Totman : A member . H . Dow : You were Vice- Chairman when I came on this Board . G . Totman : You took my place . H . Dow : If I took your place , I didn ' t mean to . Well , - - I can act as Chairman but I do know there ' s a lot of background I don ' t have and I do recognize the fact that several of you do and George is a fellow who devotes a tremendous amount of time to this job and I would say that I would be willing to nominate George Totman as Vice -Chairman if he will accept . G . Totman : I think you ought to nominate someone else because I was Vice-Chairman ever since the Board was started . Some discussion was held on this by G . Totman , R . Cotanch , H . Dow and others . R . Cotanch : Hicks - you can ' t nominate him - - you ' re out of order but , as a member of this group , I would nominate Mr . Totman as Vice-Chairman . R . Gleason : I move the polls be closed and the secretary cast one ballot . G . Totman : We ' re not following our procedure that we established at the election we had in April . There were no nominations from the floor - - I feel if that is the wish of the Board , we should conduct elections that way . R . Cotanch : Alright , let ' s tear up some paper . Mr . Dow asked Z . Kane to act as teller , and she advised the Board that Mr . Totman was named unanimously . H . Dow : Will you accept ? G . Totman : If you ' ll attend the meetings . - 8 - R . Cotanch : Mr . Chairman , the secretary advised me that we didn ' t make a formal motion to recommend Mr . Carey as the County Planning Board member for the Town of Groton . H . Dow : Do I hear a motion to recommend Dan Carey to the Town Board for appointment to the County Planning Board ? Z . Kane : I move that we make this motion . Some discussion was held by G . Totman and H . Dow that it might be best to submit another name to the Town Board , as well as Mr . Carey ' s , and that Mr . Dow ' s name should be submitted as an alternate . H . Dow : A motion has been made that D . Carey be suggested to the Town Board as a member of the County Planning Board and Hicks Dow as an alternate . More discussion was held on this subject by H . Dow , R . Cotanch and others and Mr . Cotanch seconded the motion and it was carried . R . Cotanch : 0 . K . , - - now we need to think - - I don ' t know whether we can recommend anybody tonight or not , but we should think about recommending someone , or a group of people , - - I think last time we recommended three and Zana was unfortunate enough to be chosen for replacement on the Board , and now we need a recommendation for someone to fill Dan ' s place . H . Dow : May I suggest that since the last appointment took approximately two months , we come to our next meeting prepared to submit names ? Do you think we should follow the pattern of having three candidates and discussing them? R . Cotanch : If I recall when Zana came on we discussed around six names . G . Totman : We gave them to the Board and they took their choice . H . Dow : Well , - our next meeting will be July 7th - - alright come prepared to submit a name for this office . R . Cotanch : I have two announcements of upcoming meetings . The next meeting of the first phase of the 701 is the 22nd of June at 8 P . M . right here . This is to clear up loose ends and to discuss the meeting to be held the 29th which will be at the High School and will be the last official act of the first phase of the 701 project in presenting the master plan proposed and the enabling legislation , which some people call zoning , which is also my last act on that Board as chairman . Jake Hastings will be taking over as of July 1st . H . Dow : We have a point here and I think it should be aired - - let ' s each bring a name to our next meeting on the 7th as a nominee for the job that Dan vacated and Zana just asked if we should bring the name of a person al - ready contacted and I said we should contact the person and determine whether they are willing and explain we want to submit their name for the whole Board to act on . R . Cotanch : I disagree with that . G . Totman : I do , too . Supposing I go to Joe Smith and I say there ' s a vacancy and I ' d like to submit your name . 0 . K . , - - two weeks later he reads in the paper that so and so is appointed and right away he is mad and thinks someone on the Board doesn ' t like him . - 9 - r Some discussion was held on this by R . Cotanch , G . Totman , H . Dow and others . R . Cotanch : I think we ' re overlooking a point here and that is that the new member will be appointed by the Town Board and not our Planning Board . More discussion was held on this by Z . Kane , F . Scheffler , R . Cotanch and others . H . Dow : Is there any other point that anyone wants to bring up ? We have dis - posed of your three points haven ' t we , Ron ? R . Cotanch : Yes . R . Gleason : There ' s a school function on next Tuesday night , the 22nd - - the sixth grade recognition night program , which quite a few of us will be attending . Mrs . Kane said that she had asked her daughter and she said it would take about an hour for the above program which starts around 7 P . M . so it was suggested that Mr . Niederkorn be informed that most of the members would be late in turning up for the 8 P . M . meeting i . e . R . Cotanch , Z . Kane , F . Scheffler and R . Gleason , so that it might be best if the meeting could start at 8 * 30 P . M . rather than 8000 P . M . G . Totman : Do you want copies of tonight ' s minutes to take with you to the Town Board meeting that night ? H . Dow : Yes . Mrs . Bell told Mr . Totman she would get the minutes to him as quickly as possible so he would have time to run extra copies for the Town Board members . R . Cotanch : I move we adjourn . H . Dow : Those in favor ? The meeting is adjourned and I want to thank you for coming . We ' ll meet again on the 7th of July . Re ,pectfully submitted , J ephi a Bell - 10 -