HomeMy WebLinkAbout2002-02-21 TOWN OF GROTON PLANNING BOARD
Transcript of Public Hearings & Regular Meeting
Thursday, 21 February 2002 - 7:30 PM - Town Hall
Members. Groton Planning. Board (*Absent) Others Present
Monica Carey, Chair Joan Fitch, Recording Secretary
Barbara Clark George Senter, Sr. , Code Enforcement Officer
Tom Guihan Glenn Morey, Town Supervisor
Mark Baxendell Sheldon Clark, Town Councilman
Brad Albro
Mary K. Gloster
Applicants & Public Present
Patrick J. DeLucia, Applicant; Susan Hollern, Applicant; Dan DeLucia, Richard Case III, Patrick Shaw,
Marion Hanson, Janice Haines, Marty Conner, Robert Walpole
Call to Order
M . Carey: Okay, it's 7:30 and well call the meeting to order. The first thing on the Agenda is a
Public Hearing for a Site Plan Review for a Special Permit for a sawmill, dry kilns, lumber sales, Patric
DeLucia,
PUBLIC HEARING #1
Patrick J. DeLucia, dba DeLucia Bros Lumber. ARglicant - 960 Sovocool Hill Road TM # 25
1 =39 - Site Plan Review - Proposed Saw Mill
M. Carey: Would you like to get up and just kind of give an overall general view to these folks?
P. DeLucia: I can , real quick. Pretty much everyone, I think, except Pat who's one of my
neighbors up there, and to the rest that weren 't here last time around . Once again, my name is Patrick
DeLucia. This is my brother Daniel, my partner. We run currently right now a small retail outlet
down in Slaterville and we rent a few different barns. Our biggest thing is to try to concentrate our
efforts. The sawmill is the only thing we really worry about scaring anybody you know, people think a
sawmill is a big noisy mills or something like that. It's a portable mill. We're just looking for a site to
set it up so we can keep an eye on it. It's run by a diesel-powered unit that is not any noisier than
your average farm tractor, so noise I don't think will be a concern . And to relocate our retail outlet up
there and do some lumber sales. That's basically what we have . A little bit of brokering which is
another part of the business. It's all self-contained . That 's what we would like to do.
T. Guihan: How much parking spaces would you need for the retail?
P. DeLucia: We would like to put the retail part on probably what amounts to , if you squared off
acres - I'm not sure what that would be. Maybe 250 feet.
T. Guihan: How many cars do you want to park?
P. DeLucia: The way we were going to set it up we could put in 20-25 cars.
T. Guihan: Oh , okay.
P. DeLucia: We'd get them right off the road too . We'd definitely make sure we have room for that.
Because a lot of it will be loading lumber into the back of trucks and we don't want to take any
chances. And definitely the visibility is good up there. You can see my place from a mile away.
Anybody pulling in or out should not have a problem.
M. Carey: Anybody from the public have any questions for them?
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(T) Groton Planning Board Regular Meeting Transcript 21 February 2002
P. Shaw : I was just curious on the location. And he answered that.
P. DeLucia: The diagram that we turned in to the last meeting I am showing him.
T. Guihan: Are you happy with that?
P. Shaw: Yes.
M. Carey: Anyone else have anymore questions for these folks? Okay. Anybody on the Board
have any questions they want to ask? I'm going to read the Notice of the Public Hearing because I
have to have it in the Minutes and , because I didn't have it before, I'm going to read it now . Okay—
PLEASE TAKE NOTICE that the Town of Groton Planning Board is holding a Public
Hearing as part of its regular monthly meeting on Thursday, February 21, 2002 at 7:30
PM at the Groton Town Hall, 101 Conger Boulevard, Groton, NY, for the purpose of
reviewing an application for Site Plan Review/ Special Permit for saw mill, dry kilns,
and lumber sales submitted by Patrick DeLucia, DeLucia Brothers Lumber, 960
Sovocool Hill Road, Tax Map #25-1 -39.
All interested citizens will have the opportunity to give written and oral comments.
Monica Carey
Chairperson
Okay, so if we don't have anybody else who has any comments, then I guess well close the Public
Hearing. (The time was 7:34 p.m.) Everybody got a letter from the County explaining that basically
they didn't have any problem with you putting a sawmill up there and they put some questions in
here about traffic and location of parking, but we discussed all this at our last meeting. So I think
most everything was covered that they had issues on. Does anybody else have anything they want to
add to this? Okay, I was wondering. Should we put any restrictions on hours of operation?
P. DeLucia: We are definitely limited to any of the outside work to daylight hours. And we both
have young families and the wives definitely are going to limit our working hours. There's no doubt
about that. There may be times when we put in 16-hour days in the summer, but I think we would
respect everybody, you know, and if anybody complains about it. The retail business is basically
people coming in and looking through boards and that kind of stuff. And that I definitely would want
to be open by appointment during the week. There 's no noise.
T. Guihan: You 'd be open 8 to 5 right, for retail?
P. DeLucia: The retail - I would say expand it a little bit beyond that. Something like 7 to 6 and
then maybe by appointment. I think just because, being a new business, we realize already that we
will put the hours in to make it a success. Maybe down the road, if people line up to get in the door,
then well work more.
T. Guihan: You 'll have to put up lights.
P. DeLucia: Well talk about that in a few years.
M. Carey: And you 'll have to see George if you 're going to put up a sign . We want to make sure
there 's not going to be any parking on the street. You said you had plenty of parking in the area for
the store. And we sort of talked about you planting trees for protection for the neighbors.
P. DeLucia: Sure will.
M. Carey: And that will probably be part of the restrictions. Does anybody else have anything?
Okay. Would somebody like to make a motion to approve or disapprove this Special Permit?
M . Basendell: I make a motion to approve the Site Plan with all the contingencies, with planting of
trees between neighbors, no onstreet parking, and hours of operation limited to daylight hours.
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(T) Groton Planning Board Regular Meeting Transcript 21 February 2002
B. Clark: I11 second the motion .
M. Carey: All in favor? (All Board members present indicated in the affirmative. ) You're set to
go.
P. DeLucia: Thank you very much .
This becomes Action # 12 of 2002 .
Approval of Minutes - 17 January 2002
M. Carey: Well, the next thing on the Agenda is let's approve the Minutes of the January
meeting. Would somebody like to make the motion to approve them?
B. Albro: I make a motion to approve them, as written.
B. Clark: I'll second it.
M . Carey: All in favor? (All members present indicated in the affirmative. ) Passed.
This becomes Action # 13 of 2002 .
Janice Haines - Recommended for Plannin&r Board Member
M . Carey: Well, Janice, hi . This is Janice Haines. She's applied for a position on our Board
and this is her rdsum& I was just given that tonight. She 's from McLean . Janice, we meet every
month, the third Thursday at 7:30 and so far I don 't think we've ever had an extra meeting since most
of you have been on the Board. Once in awhile well have an extra meeting. We're going to be working
on rewriting the Comprehensive Plan . We 've got a meeting set up for next Thursday. I don't know if
Glenn has any ideas of maybe having you attend some of those meetings, seeing how you 're from the
McLean area and we would like to have a voice from the McLean area on everything. Basically, we're
just a Board that is trying to improve Groton .
G. Morey: (Explains what the Comprehensive Plan is and why it's being rewritten/ upgraded .)
We haven't done this in ten years and it's really outdated . What this is going to be is two people from
the ZBA, two people on the Planning Board, and two people from the community at large. Tuesday
night the Board voted for Monica Carey, Mary Gloster, Lyle Raymond , John Pachai, Julie Graham (?) ,
and Doug Albern . Julie and Doug are the representatives from the McLean area. Tyke Randall of
West Groton will chair the committee. We 've got a good representation of all the total Town . It's an
open meeting and anybody can attend , and we 'd appreciate any comments and public interest or
anything of that nature to help us out.
M . Carey: Like I said, we meet the third Thursday at 7:30. We get $25 for each meeting we
attend, and the Town does require that we attend a training seminar once a year to keep us updated.
And you 'll get a nice thick book to look through and study. Do you have any questions for our Board?
People should introduce themselves. Mark, you want to start?
M. Bazendell: Mark Baxendell.
B. Albro: Brad Albro
M. Gloster: Mary Gloster,
M. Carey: Monica Carey,
B. Clark: Barb Clark,
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(T) Groton Planning Board Regular Meeting Transcript 21 February 2002
T. Guihan: Tom Guihan .
J. Fitch: Joan Fitch, secretary.
G. Morey: And this is George Senter, our Code Enforcement Officer.
J. Haines: Oh , I know George .
M. Carey: I'd like to make a motion to recommend to the Town Board that they appoint Janice
at their next Board meeting to fill the vacancy on our Board . Anybody want to second the motion?
Be Clark: I'll second it.
M. Carey: All in favor? (All Board members present indicated in the affirmative. ) Carried. So ,
chances are you 'll be appointed .
This becomes Action # 14 of 2002 ,
M . Carey: Glenn , do you have anything you 'd like to bring to us?
G. Morey: Congratulations, prematurely, to Janice . The Board will meet on the 12' of March
and I'll get a letter out to you explaining your responsibilities. . .
Glenn Morey re Recognizing Town's Agricultural Sector
G. Morey: Another thing I wanted to let you know is it's been a real concern of the Board to
recognize the agricultural sector in the Town of Groton. We know that the most powerful economic
factor in the Town of Groton is agriculture. What we did was send out fifteen letters to area farmers to
come in and have coffee and donuts at ten o'clock in the morning on February 28'. That's a
Thursday, next Thursday, to just sit down and talk about their concerns. Are we doing our job the
right way? Do they need something? Do they need a seminar once a year or twice a year? It's awful
hard to get these guys off the farm. Also, the Northeast Dairy Compact is very important to the Federal
government now. I went to see Charles Schumer last Monday at Cooperative Extension in Ithaca. I
have sample letters to get out to government officials and their congressman and things like that, so I
want to discuss that and see what they feel about that. A lot of people are for it and a lot of people are
against it because they don't recognize the full range of farming, just the bigger farms.
M. Carey: I'm not sure exactly what - the bigger farms will benefit more from the Compact than
the smaller farms will.
G. Morey: There's a lot of discussion we can have . If they just want to come in and have coffee
and donuts, that's fine with me, but I did want to let you know.
M . Gloster: Do you think this would be a good place, if we're going to be doing comprehensive
planning, should I sit in on this?
G. Morey : That's fine.
M. Carey: Very good . If anybody from our Board could attend, it would be very nice . It shows
the farmers that we are interested . At least come for the coffee and donuts . So what did Schumer
have to say at that meeting? Were there quite a few farmers from this area, or more Southern Tier
farmers?
G. Morey: Lyle Raymond and Dan Carey were there from the Town of Groton . That's all I saw.
A lot of organic farmers showed up.
M. Carey: Are there many organic farmers in the Groton area? I know there's some in Lansing.
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(T) Groton Planning Board Regular Meeting Transcript 21 February 2002
M. Baxendell: Tom Brown is organic.
M. Carey: Dairy farming organic, right. Fay Benson is also. He's organic, or he use to be. The
problem with organic farming is you can 't treat your cows and you lose a lot of animals. The only
thing you can give them, I think, is aspirin.
Comments from George Seater. Sr. . CEO
M. Carey: George, do you have anything for us?
G. Seater: No, except the International Building Code is not come into effect yet . I don 't know
when . Put a big question mark after that. First it was January l8t, then it's March, then it's July.
M. Carey: Now you 've taken training for it, right?
G. Senter: Yes, I've been to all the schools. It's a lot of verbiage changes, you know, that sort of
thing. It might be easier. There will be New York enhancements with it. Every community in New York
State is supposed to get a set of books.
M . Carey: Does anybody else on the Board have anything to bring before the meeting? (No
response.) Okay, then well take a break until it's time for the next Public Hearing at 8 PM.
--�
PUBLIC HEARING #2
Gordon J. & Susan E. HoUern ROs - 750 Cortland Road - TM # 20- 1 -35 - Site Plan Review Used Vehicle Satuall Landscape Sugply Sales
M . Carey: I'd like to open the Public Hearing and I'll read the Notice of the Public Hearing,
PLEASE TAKE NOTICE that the Town of Groton Planning Board is holding a Public
Hearing as part of its regular monthly meeting on Thursday, February 21, 2002 at 8
PM at the Groton Town Hall, 101 Conger Boulevard, Groton, NY, for the purpose of
reviewing an application for Site Plan Review/ Special Permit for a used car, truck, and
camper sales submitted by Gordon Hollern to be located at 750 Cortland Road, Tax
Map #20-1 -35.
All interested citizens will have the opportunity to give written and oral comments.
Monica Carey
Chairperson
J. Fitch: Do you have the date of publication of the notices for the record?
M . Carey: February 60 1.
J. Fitch: Thank you .
M. Carey: Mrs. Hollern, would you like to get up and just kind of let the public know what your
plans are?
S. Hollerm Hi, my name is Susan Hollern and I'm co-owner of Hollern 's Haven Auto Sales. We're
located on 428 Lick Street in Locke in the Town of Summer Hill, and my husband and I recently
purchased the property at the corner of Salt Road and Route 222 . We owned the property about 15
years ago and sold it to Jeff Prescott who had a business called The Truck Stop. It's a commercial
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property and we have come before the Planning Board to get the okay, I guess, to sell used cars, trucks,
and campers. Does anybody have any questions?
M. Carey: Does anybody have any questions to ask? Would you please state your name please .
M. Hanson: Marion Hansen, and I'm the property right next - on Salt Road . I've been there for
five years and my concern is that when we moved in there was junk and stuff all around. And I'm just
wondering what the protection is for me as a neighbor in terms of junk in terms of vehicles.
G. Senter: Me.
M. Carey: George Senter is our Zoning Code Enforcement Officer. He checks on that kind of
stuff. So if you do see something like that developing, you would call George.
M. Hanson: I guess one of the reasons that I'm concerned is that work in Cortland and on my way
home on Davis Road, right now, there 's a property -
G. Seater: They got a letter.
M . Hanson: Okay.
S. Hollern: Gordon and I we're licensed and we've been in business for over six years. We're
licensed with the State of New York. George has got a copy of our licensing agreement with the State of
New York, and we don't have eyesores on our property. It would be an eyesore to us too, and we share
your concern with that. We also will not be having car parts and junk, which used to be there . We
don 't do that because we don't run the business that way. We will not be doing repairs there; we're
not licensed to do repairs. All of our repairs are done offsite. We will be doing detailing, cleaning up,
bringing vehicles in to clean them up. Right now we have some vehicles inside . We 've had some
things stole off our vehicles so we have to put them inside until NYSEG can come up and put some
spotlights up. I was hoping they would have done that this week, but they haven't done it yet. So I
share your concerns. Our home on 428 Lick - you 're welcome to go by. We maintain a good property
because we want a good reputation in Town . We 've lived in Tompkins County all of our lives.
M . Hanson: Can you tell me about the spotlights?
S. Hollern : NYSEG is going to put a light up - when you come into Salt Road , the first driveway
in, there's a white truck there and there's a pole back this way. They are going to put - I don 't want to
call it a spotlight, it's like a night light, so that it can shine down, not out, down .
G. Seater: So it won 't disturb traffic or anything.
S. Hollern : No. And if you have any problems, just give us a call. Especially if you have a
concern or you see someone there that shouldn 't be. Any other questions from anyone?
M. Carey: Anybody else have questions?
T. Guihan: Yes. We got a letter from the Commissioner of Planning and he recommended that
you do something about insulating the well from parking cars there. Could you do that, like with
shrubs or something.
S. Hollern: Oh , we have a whole idea of landscaping when spring comes, so that will be taken
care of. We 've already started taking brush out, and shrubbery. We're going to be cutting trees. We've
started beautifying the front of the building with shutters. So yes, Gordy has that in mind too. We 've
got a lot of work to do over there.
T. Guihan: Well, he just mentioned that to protect the water supply from oil and gasoline
contamination from parked cars. That's all.
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S. Hollern: Any other questions?
M. Carey: Anybody from the Board have any questions?
S. Hollern: I have a question for the Board, if I may. I think we had talked last time about a
certain number. And I'd like to address that tonight if I could. I can 't remember if the number had
come up of what we were allowed to use, but I need to know from the Board what's your formula for
determining a number for that property?
M. Carey: Well, we basically just discover it with the property owners or the applicant and
between the two of us we usually do come up with some sort of a number. We were discussing
between 15 and 20, but we never set anything definite last time because I was asking these folks if they
remembered if there was. There was nothing in the Minutes saying we had set a definite number. I
think we were talking more on the 20-side instead of on the 15-side. Is 20 a figure -
S. Hollern: We would like to at least be maybe 30 to 40. That's huge , but we want to be able to
have enough inventory to turn it around and not be limited where if we have like a couple motorcycle
trailer or a horse trailer or a camper, that's going to be considered an item. And I don 't want George to
come up if we've got 21 and say, Susan, they said you could only do 20. So I just want to talk to the
Board and make sure we're all on the same page. We're not going to have hundreds, but we want to be
able to come up with a number of if you have an idea. We could discuss that at a different time, if you
wish, as well.
M. Carey: No, we need to discuss that because that is one of our concerns. We'd like you to keep
them in an orderly fashion . How many do you think you could fit up there? Where are you planning
on parking them?
M. Bazendell: A couple of things to think about here is you 're talking a 20-foot stock trailer or a
Ford Escort wagon; these are two different things with regard to space sizes. If you are talking about
some of the trucks you were talking about bringing in before, they are not full size tractor trailers, but
they are not pickup trucks. You 're talking about commercial trucks, landscaping, stake body, dump
body. Those take up more space. So when we were looking at that originally, at the 15-20 number, we
were thinking, or I was thinking you 're looking at stake bodies, minimum 12-foot bed with dumps on
them for landscaping. You 're looking at one-ton trucks, one and a half-ton trucks, two-ton trucks.
And all of a sudden now we 've got 20-foot trucks out there too . So I don 't know what you 're looking at.
Originally you were looking at a specialty area. Are we're looking to add now residential cars? You 're
still looking at that, right?
S. Hollern: Cars will be -
M. Baaendell: Cars are going to be there because you 're going to take them if somebody brings in a
car to trade on a truck.
S. HoSern: Maybe. Maybe well trade.
M. Carey: So you plan on having more trucks than cars?
S. HoUern: That's what the demand is because, in all honesty, people can go to Royal or
Fuccillo 's and get a car at 20% interest or no interest, depending on down payment. We don 't do that.
So we're finding that the specialty areas turn over a lot faster than a car does. So what you 're saying
is right.
M. Basendell: What I'm looking at is you put an old 20-foot box truck up there then you 're looking
at 24 to 26 feet of truck from one end to the other. If you get 20 of those up there, you 're in trouble.
So, as a Board we need to look at a number that is a reasonable number. If you 're looking at that size
truck, I'd say no more than 20 .
S. HoUern: They're hard to come by to purchase.
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M. Gloster: You still have to leave enough room for customer parking, people coming in, too.
S. Hollern: That's like the way out type of number, but we just didn't want to be limited to 20
including little trailers or whatever the case may be and , if we hit 21 , George is going to give us a call.
We just want to make sure that - which is fine, we appreciate him doing his job. We just don 't want to
be boxed in .
M. Baxendell: I guess if we gave you an amount of 20 to start with, and you were finding that the
need is becoming greater, then you could just come back.
S. Hollern: Come back and do this again? Another Public Hearing?
M. Carey: No. You would -
M. Baxendell: No, you would come back to the Board and, over that period of time enough of us
would drive by there. We would see what kind of business you got there , how organized.
M. Carey: Plus we want to see what kind of organization you have with the vehicles, because
that's going to mean a lot - people driving in from Town and stuff. I'm sure you 're going to have it very
well organized .
S. Hollern: What 's important to us is that we maintain a positive look when people drive by. Not
a junkyard . Because that's our name out there, our reputation, and that's very important to us. So
what you 're saying is exactly how we feel as well. So if we go to 21 , let's say we give George a call and
say we got two more little motorcycle trailers that will put us up to 22 - so we would work through
George then? That's the big if word .
G. Senter0 Where would you park all of those if you had 30? Would you park them back towards
the neighbor's property back here?
S. Hollern: No.
M. Baxendell: Is everything out in front of the building? Or are you going to come - if I'm on 222
looking in the front or on Salt Road looking this way, we've got them coming around the corner?
S. Hollern: On the side. There's those trees there at the side of the building - some of those are
coming out and we're going to be able to put some in there. We had originally had - we're going to take
some trees out there and put them in that way. But Gordon's really the mastermind of how logistically
it will be.
G. seater: With that amount of land up there, it's just my opinion, I don't think 30 is going to
be too much. Jeff had at least 30.
T. Guihan: What we're concerned about is we don 't want it cluttered or have junk out back.
M. Carey: And they need to be neat and orderly, which you claim you 're going to do .
S. Hollern: That 's our reputation .
M . Carey: Did you want to speak again??
M. Hanson: I was just hoping that if the number of vehicles is increased if whether I could also be
notified too? If you 're going out down the hill towards Groton, that would be one thing, but if they
are coming toward my property, that's another thing.
S. Hollern: I don't think we would because our property line isn 't really - it goes up to the back we wouldn 't be going towards your place .
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G. Senter: There's a lot in between you and hers too .
S. Hollern: That's not ours. That's someone else's.
G. Senter: Okay.
M. Bazendell: The lot that they're on is very small.
M. Carey: Do we have any more questions from the public?
G. Senter: I'd like to say that I'm not going to drive up there every day and count vehicles.
M. Carey: If we don't have any more questions from the public, I'd like to close the Public
Hearing (the time was 5: 15 p.m.). Another thing we'd like to talk to you about are hours of
operation . We never discussed that last time.
S. Hollern: Presently we both work full time and we have hours Saturday and Sunday, all day,
and that's basically what it is right now . Nights and weekends by appointment only. We have a
phone hooked up there in the building that's got voice mail on it and we also say in our message to
call us for an immediate response because we're not there. But right now that's what it's going to be.
And eventually - we have to get in touch with the State and tell them what any change is and they
have to come over and audit. It's a big thing, but we're not to that point yet .
M. Carey: Okay, is everybody in agreement with Saturdays and Sundays and evenings by
appointment?
S. Hollern: By appointment only. And if anyone has any concerns, don 't hesitate to pick up the
phone and call. During the day I'm at the YWCA and you can call me there or leave a message at
home and well get back to you . Thank you .
M. Carey: You 've been before George about the sign?
S. Hollern : I think so.
M. Carey: And we don't want any distracting lights or flashing lights. You 're not going to do
any of that stuff are you?
S. Hollern: No disco lights?
M. Carey: No, your neighbors might complain a little bit. Does anybody else have any
questions? What do we want to set the number at?
M. Gloster: 20?
G. Senter: My feeling is that if you give her 20, she'll be back two months from now.
M. Carey: 25? These are just the outside vehicles.
M. Baxendell: These are just outside vehicles.
M. Carey: Right. So if you put some inside, George isn't going to come up there after you on
those .
T. Guithan: I think if you just keep it neat, orderly, and uncluttered, nobody will bother you .
M. Carey: Okay. Well, do we have anymore questions for Ms. Hollern? Would somebody like to
make a motion to approve or disapprove the Site Plan?
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T. Guihan: I'll make a motion to approve the Site Plan, as requested, limited to an exterior
display of 25 used vehicles, with hours of operation set for all day Saturdays and Sundays, and
weekdays and evenings by appointment only.
M. Carey: Anybody like to second the motion?
B. Clark: I'll second the motion .
M. Carey: All in favor? (All Board members present indicated in the affirmative, ) Okay, you 're
approved .
S. Hollern : Thank you .
M. Carey: Thank you . Marty, do you have something for our Board?
M. Conners: Nope, just a spectator.
This becomes Action # 15 of 2002 .
M. Carey: Go call Bob and tell him to get over here .
J. Fitch: Put your pause on and wait.
M. Carey: Here he is. You 're on .
Robert Walpole - Informational Discussion re Allen McCaffrey Progerty Pleasant Valley
Road - TM #32- 1 -38 . 11
R. Walpole : We have a client that's looking at this. I'll go over the maps I've just given you .
Here's a big copy of the survey. This was made back in 1993 . I've given you a copy of the tax map -
it's 32- 1 -38 . 11 . This property was transferred back when Marvin Torok had it and Todd transferred it
to Torok. When Torok went out of business, it went back to Todd, and this piece here never changed .
And we transferred it back in 1990, 1991 . At that time we had come before the Planning Board because
this gentlemen that originally bought it wanted to put a house up in there . And we did find the letter.
George couldn't find it in the file, of the original time we were here back in 1990.
G. Senter: I was looking in the wrong year. But I didn't find that one .
R. Walpole : Oh , you were? We had sent letters to both sets of attorneys indicating that they
could because we'd come into the Planning Board, but there was nothing in the Minutes. But anyway,
it's my understanding that that 173 feet - I think the lot size back then was 200 feet of road frontage,
and they went and got a variance . But no building can be constructed within this 173 feet or what we
classify now as the flag. What we want to make sure is if these people exercise their right to buy this
property, they don 't plan on doing anything for five years, maybe ten years, but they want to make
sure that they can build a house out here.
M . Carey: Why was it restricted before? What was the letter that restricted them from putting a
house out there?
R. Walpole : There never was one .
M . Carey: Oh , there never was one .
M. Baaendell: It's not a restriction. He just wants to make sure that they have access to the back of
the property. And from what I gather, road frontage was 200 foot and they got a variance to go down
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(T) Groton Planning Board Regular Meeting Transcript 21 February 2002
to 137 . But that's already been done. So you 're just asking us can he still put a house back there , as
of today's date, that's going to uphold .
R. Walpole: See what we did was we went back in the file looking for the paperwork from the last
time we were in here. And we couldn 't find it. There wasn 't anything in the file. And then, since then ,
the owner that we sold this property to brought all his paperwork in and there was the letter from the
Town back in 1980 that we originally had that we sent to both sets of attorneys before we transferred
this thing the last time. So since we requested to come here we found the letter. I guess we just want
to make sure at this point -
M. Baxendell: It's an existing lot. It's already there. We don't have to do anything to it.
M. Carey: I see no problem with it.
M. Basendell: Long driveway.
M. Carey: Actually, it goes over our standards for a flag lot .
R. Walpole : Let me ask you another quick question then, as long as I'm in here. If down the road,
15 years, 20 years from now, even though there's a variance that locks this in -
M. Bazendell: It doesn 't lock it.
R. Walpole : Oh , yes.
G. Senter: It can never be diminished.
R. Walpole : So it's out of the picture to add another flag lot?
G. Senter: You 'd have to come back to the Zoning Board and ask for another variance .
R. Walpole : Okay. I doubt that's ever going to happen, but I just thought I'd throw the question
out.
M. Carey: Hopefully then we'd have a whole different Board .
G. Seater: If they come to me and ask for a building permit for a house up there, I'd give it to
them. I have no recourse.
R. Walpole : We got the information today from the DEC; that's the flood map you 're looking at of
the State 's wetlands and we talked to Ray Nolan . Part of that driveway that's already there comes a
corner across part of the wetlands there. We have a letter here from the Corps of Engineers out of
Buffalo, dated January 16, 1997, allowing them to build that driveway up that went through there.
And DEC's indications late this afternoon when Ray called me back, says it's pre-existing, it's there,
we're not restricting the flow of the water and there are culverts there in the driveway - Cotton-Hanlon
was in there a year, year and a half ago and took timber and stuff out.
M. Carey: Well, they won 't be building on that wetland anyway .
R. Walpole : No, you can 't build in there anyway. It would not have any effect with the building
permit issue.
G. Senter: No. As long as he stays out of the wetlands.
R. Walpole : My other quick question - this also lies in the Tompkins County's natural resource
area, based on the map. Would that have any affect on this?
M. Baxendell: There 's still enough property out of that area to still build, is that correct?
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(T) Groton Planning Board Regular Meeting Transcript 21 February 2002
M. Carey: Right.
M. Baaendell: So when they go to apply for the permit, they are still going to have to abide by that
for the construction of the house .
R. Walpole : Yes. There's only a small portion of it that's in the area. That's that lower half where
the wetlands -
M. Carey: They still can 't build there, so -
M. Bazendell: It's pretty self-explanatory for them then .
R. Walpole : I'm just answering some of the questions. The only thing that I would request in the
end, if there's no problem, is that we just get some kind of a letter from the Board to put in the file and
send out to the attorneys.
M. Carey: Okay. Joan, would you do a letter for us please?
J. Fitch: I'll talk it over with George to see what kind of a letter he wants. Then I'l1 do that for
you .
R. Walpole: I may not be here ten years from now , so it will be with their file .
M. Carey: Really, we don't need any action on this. It's basically cut and dried.
R. Walpole : Just so it shows in the Minutes we were here and that we get some type of letter to
put in the file .
M. Carey: Okay, Thanks, Bob .
Adjournment
M. Carey: Okay, if no one else has anything to come before the Board I'd like to ask for
adjournment. Somebody make a motion?
B. Clark: I make a motion we adjourn the meeting.
B. Albro: I'll second it.
M. Carey: All those in favor? (All were in favor) . Carried.
The meeting was adjourned at 8: 32 p. m.
JoA E. Fitch, Recording Secretary 3 / 21 / 02
RFCFIVFD
MAR 2 5 2002
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