HomeMy WebLinkAbout2002-01-17 h
TOWN OF GROTON PLANNING BOARD
Minutes/ Transcript of Public hearing & Regular Meeting
Thursday, 17 January 2002 - 7: 30 PM - Town Hall
Members, Groton Planning Board (*Absent) Others Present
Monica Carey, Chair Joan Fitch, Recording Secretary
Barbara Clark George Senter, Sr. , Code Enforcement Officer
Tom Guihan Glenn Morey, Town Supervisor
Mark Baxendell
Brad Albro
Mary K. Gloster
ARRlicants & Public Present
Patrick J. DeLucia, Applicant; Gary Hollern, Applicant; Susan Hollern; Dan DeLucia
Call to Order
M. Carey: Okay, it's 7 : 30 and I'll open the meeting. The first thing on the Agenda is to approve
the December Minutes, but I don't think people had time to read them so well hold that off until the
end or possibly wait until next month.
New Business
Patrick J. DeLucia, dba DeLucia Bros. Lumber, Applicant - 960 Sovocool Hill Road - TM # 25 -
1 -39 - Site Plan Review - Proposed Saw Mill
M. Carey: The second thing on the Agenda is for a saw mill. Would you like to come up and
explain to us what you are planning on doing and give us some ideas, Patrick?
P. DeLucia: I'd like to introduce myself. My name is Patrick DeLucia. This is my brother, Dan.
He's my business partner. We currently own and operate a small retail outlet in Slaterville. What
we've run into is we rent four or five different barns and buildings and that's kind of expensive. We did
pretty good last year as our first year in business, and we were only in business for 9 months. We had
a pretty good year. Didn't make like a lot of money; most of it, actually all of it went right back into the
business. I manage a saw mill now in Oswego. We employ about 70 people . The saw mill and lumber
are definitely our background. We worked for Gutchess Lumber. We've got a lot of experience there.
Over the years, we decided it's something we wanted to do for ourselves. There's little niche markets
out there and we think we found one . We have a portable saw mill. I don't want to scare anybody in
thinking there's going to be a great big building out there making a lot of noise. What we have is a
portable mill that we move. But we need a place that we're not renting, and I own this property on
Sovocool Hill Road, 96± acres is what it amounts to on top of the acre that I have my residence on .
Our plan is to probably relocate my residence . There's just a mobile home there . We can move it out
in back. On the diagram it's that shaded area there on the bottom left-hand side. I would continue to
own that. The business would buy the remaining acreage from me and my wife and we would put a
retail outlet up there. I think the specs - they're not huge or ugly buildings. They are nice state-of-
the-art kind of things. Metal, aluminum type buildings. Not an eyesore I don't think. Concrete pad for
the saw mill. We'd like to put that up in back, a floating pad, and possibly a storage area. That's like
in the future plan. We're doing this pretty much out of our own pockets. It's money that we have
invested ourselves. We're not looking into over-extending ourselves as far as growth, and we don't
want to go in debt that's for sure . The retail shop is definitely something we want to go ahead with as
soon as possible. That would just concentrate our efforts together instead of renting these four or five
different spots that we rent. Like a showroom-type quality hardwoods is what we're going to sell out of
that shop . And then, in the future, the saw mill would be located up there and a bigger storage
building out in back. Traffic would be kept to a minimum. Number one , we're just not that big. We
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(T) Groton Planning Board Regular Meeting Transcript 17 January 2002
did, I don't know, we might have sold 10,000 feet of hardwood last year out of our retail shop. There
are crazy mark-ups in that for sure. We're not like a Gutchess that needs to move 20 or 30 million feet,
so that the tractor-trailer traffic, if any, would be very minimal. Cases up there on the hill do a lot of
trucking for me out of my business out of Oswego . You can ask him about the trucking. Even for a
large client it's still pretty much to a minimum, 10,000 feet at a time moving along. That's a lot of
lumber. We also have a truck set up with a trailer. That's what we do most of the trucking on. That's
how we get that part of it done in small lots, 3 or 4 ,000 feet at a time.
M. Carey: Now is this, I mean the lumber that you're trucking, is it already cut up or is it the
logs themselves?
P. DeLucia: It's a little bit of both. We do do some log jobs for different landowners. Small jobs of
2 and 3-acre parcels is what we try to key on. We do have a trucker that does that for us with a small
10-wheeler rig. So there would be some logs coming in for our own mill. And then a little bit of lumber
that we buy out and about. We've got connections pretty much all over the northeast and that is on
my truck and trailer.
M. Carey: And then so you'd bring these logs in and you'd cut them down?
P. DeLucla: That's right.
M. Carey: And that's what you would sell in the store?
P. DeLucla: A combination of both. Some of the stuff that we saw, and some that is brought in
on a wholesale level that needs either to be kiln-dried or that is already kiln-dried.
M. Carey: Now when you talk about kiln- dried, what is involved with that?
P. DeLucla: It's mainly heat and air. A little bit of heat and a little bit of air moving through the
lumber to take the moisture content down to a workable level for the cabinetmakers and that kind of
stuff so if you get it into a forced air environment it's not going to dry and creek and break apart. The
kiln is definitely a part of a future plan. There again, it would be small. We think we can get away
with 12 ,000-foot kilns. They are not eyesores and the noise would be definitely to a minimum. They
are not huge units that would need tons of power and tons of fans. It would be relatively small and
condensed.
M. Carey: Is the saw mill noisy?
M. Baxendeil: He's got a portable; not a stationary.
D. DeLucia: It's a diesel engine, 4-cylinder, 80 HP, idles to about 2400 RMPs.
M. Carey: No longer than a tractor?
D. DeLucia: No.
P. DeLucia: What you just said is a good comparison, comparing it to a tractor in the field. More
of an idle. When it's cutting a lot there's a little more noise, but it's still a minimum. Only in the
daylight hours.
M. Carey: Now this access road that you have. How wide is that going to be?
P. DeLucia: That is a good question. I 'm sure that there are restrictions. We'd have to go by the
book on that. The minimum at least.
M. Carey: Yes, you'd have to have it wide enough for emergency vehicles to be able to get back
in there. What do we required, 25 feet for an access road?
G. Senter: Twenty; 15 for an emergency vehicle.
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(T) Groton Planning Board Regular Meeting Transcript 17 January 2002
M. Carey: I think we require 20 feet.
P. DeLucia: You'd have to have that for a tractor trailer anyways. You can't turn the corner.
M. Baxendell: The saw mill - band type or rotary?
P. DeLucia: It's a band.
M. Baxendell: That's a lot quieter, less waste .
M. Carey: Now, will you have places for people to park when they come to your store? Are you
going to make a parking area there so that — Sovocool Hill's not a very good road to park on.
D. DeLucia: What I've got outlined there in the front is the storefront. It's labeled B and it's
actually a building. The striped area around it is going to be . . . gravel. Right now we're open on
weekends and you might see a half a dozen or more people spaced out over the day on Saturday.
Contractors. Certainly not going to have a lot - it would be nice. No lines of people.
M. Baxendell: You'll be sawing hardwood then?
P. DeLucia: Yes, that's what we know.
M. Carey: Now you own all that woods that's up there, right?
P. DeLucia: Sure do.
M. Carey: Quite a few pine trees in there?
P. DeLucia: That's my neighbor's—Patrick Shaw is his name. He is aware of what's going on here
and he has no problem. Otherwise, I 'm sure he'd be here. He has been to our mill. He's a contractor,
so . . . We do a little bit of softwoods, but it's just a custom thing. If someone wants some board and
batten, that kind of thing, we will saw a little bit of hemlock.
M. Carey: Any other people have questions?
M . Gloster: Are there any residences on these small parcels . . .
P. DeLucia: Yes, there are. We think that, well, there again, they are not here so I'm not sure if
there's anything in the paper where these meetings are announced.
M. Carey: Well, that's if we decide to go with a Public hearing. Then well announce it in the
paper.
P. DeLucia: I don't think there will be a problem there, and one of our future plans, too , just to
make sure there's not a problem with noise or site is to plant trees. We definitely would plant pines
around in behind our houses. I would like to do that personally myself anyway.
M. Carey: I'd like to see it done also as part of your Site Plan Review simply so that it kind of
protects the people in those homes.
P. DeLucia: Sure.
M. Carey: Any more questions from the Board for these folks? Okay, the next thing is do we
want to plan to have a Public hearing on this or not? It is allowed in that area. There's no problems
with that according to the codes. What do people feel about a Public hearing?
B. Clark: Is it really necessary?
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M. Carey: No, but we do have a lot of development. That's my only thought up there is that
there is quite a bit of development if you look at the map around there. There's been a lot of new
homes going up there on Sovocool Hill. Even though there won't be a lot of noise with it, but there
will be some traffic involved. Have you talked to your neighbors? Do most of them all know?
P. DeLucia: I 've talked with Tvarhos; they own all the property across the road from me. He has
no problem with it. I don't know what his plans are . He's getting up there. He's very alert and aware
and doesn't want to go anywhere, but you know I've heard talk of his moving down into town. And
the Shaws to the west have no problem with us. I did not talk to those three neighbors down the road
there.
T. Guihan: I move that we have a Public hearing at the February meeting, 7 : 30 p. m.
M. Baxendell: That would be the thing to do. I second it.
M. Carey: All in favor? (Everyone Board member present indicated in the affirmative. ) Carried.
This becomes Action # 1 of 2002 .
M. Carey: Now we need to do the SEQR on this. The SEQR is something that we have to do for
every application. It's just required by the State.
Board Member Mark Baxendell then reads aloud Part II of the Short
Environmental Assessment Form. Negative responses were obtained to
all questions in Part II. Therefore, it was determined by the Planning
Board, upon the motion made by Member Baxendell, seconded by Member
Brad Albro, with all members present voting in favor, that the action ,
based on the information submitted, will not cause any significant
adverse environment impact, resulting in a Negative Declaration.
This becomes Action #2 of 2002 .
M. Carey: Okay, so we're going to hold a Public hearing the third Thursday of next month at
7 :30 , and we'd like to have you present. Hopefully, we won't have too many people here, but we'd feel
better. I'll tell you what the date is now—it will be the 21 ". Do you have any questions for the Board?
D. DeLucia: We're talking to an investor, trying to get that lined up to finance some of this project.
Will we have a go-ahead at that public meeting, at the end of that meeting?
M. Carey: Chances are, yes. Basically, the Public hearing is just a formality to stay within our
Code Enforcement Laws and just to make sure that there are no problems that are going to arise up
there.
M. Baxendell: It gives the neighbors a chance by public notice that if they've got any gripes or beefs,
that's the time to show up.
T. Guihan: In other words, they can't say that he didn't tell them.
M. Baxendell: A year down the road, you're up and running, and the guy three doors down says he
doesn't know what's going on, he had his opportunity.
M. Carey: Okay, thanks for coming. See you next month.
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Gordon J. & Susan & Hollern. ROs - 750 Cortland Road - TM #20- 1 - 35 - Site Plan Review -
Used Vehicle. Satuary, Landscape Supply Sales
M. Carey: Hi, are you the Hollerns? You're next on the Agenda. Would you like to come
forward and explain to the Board what you are proposing?
S. Hollern: My name is Susan Hollern, that's Gordon, and we own a business called Hollern's
Haven Auto Sales. We live on Lick Street in the Town of Summerhill. The mailing address is Locke,
and we've lived there for two years. We have owned our used car/truck dealership for about five years
now. And when we moved on Lick Street, we brought the business with us, but there's just not the
traffic that you need to sell cars that we're just finding out. So this property on 750 Cortland Road
became available. Now we were looking at it last year, earlier last year at one point in time, and I was
doing some research to try to find out if we can sell cars, and then someone else came in and did a
Purchase Offer and, to make a long story short, we finally ended up purchasing the property and had a
closing last month on it.
T. Guihan: Wasn't Vincent interested in that property?
S. Hollern: Yes. He backed out and then we got in there.
M. Carey: So now you own this property?
S. Hollern: We own it. It is ours. And FYI , about 15 years ago, we owned this building as well.
G. Senter: Was that Jeff Trescott? Did he rent it to you?
S. Hollern: No, he initially rented with an option to buy.
G. Senter: Because he had the Truck Stop up there.
S. Hollern: So we decided to purchase this building for a number of reasons; the main one is to
bring more visibility to selling used cars and trucks and equipment. Not hundreds and thousands of
vehicles; we're talking 12 to 15 maybe, if that. We are licensed with the State of New York. We do not
and will not do any repairs up there. We are not licensed to do repairs. All of our repairs are done
offsite. The only thing we would do is house it there, house the vehicle there, and have a telephone
number for Lick Street where we live for people to contact us. We'd love to rent the front of the
building, but if we don't, initially we may use that as a showroom needed to bring in maybe a hot-rod
car, a motorcycle or something where we would want to have it inside. The information that we have
given you - there's a lot of work that needs to be done inside this building. A lot of work. We have got
to - like from where the front of the building is, like a showroom area, then it goes back. From the
showroom area back, all that ceiling has got to come down and it's got to be all re-wired. It is a mess.
So we've got to dump a lot of money into it. So what our thought is is to get permission to have our
used cards there. We sell from Lick Street, because technically and legally with the State of New York
that's where we have to do business. And if someone is interested in renting that maybe for like the
back part for detailing or if they want to do something in front, then we'd have to come back to you
folks again and do this all over again. But the property part, the outside, we would have our vehicles
displayed for sale. Does everyone know what detailing is?
M. Gloster: In other words, if someone drove in and looked at the trucks and cars, you wouldn't
be right there?
S. Hollern: We both work full-time. We were just so upset. We got this building, this is
wonderful, we're going to have lots of traffic and then we got a call from George that we're not supposed
to do that. We really apologize because we don't want anyone to think that we're bearing in there and
this is what we're going to do because we're not like that. So we apologize to George , and we found out
that we had to come see you folks.
M. Gloster: What is the light equipment, statuary, and landscape supplies?
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S. Hollern: Light equipment would be cars, trucks, maybe a vehicle like a straight job truck a ton
or less. Statuary is like a concrete fountain, the stuff that you see in people's yards. That's called
statuary. We thought at one point in time, in the middle section, of having a display of statuary
where people could come in that one side door and we would have like fountains and those decorative
benches that you put in gardens, and that type of thing. That's statuary.
M. Gloster: I know what it is, but it seems just so far removed from the cars and trucks.
M. Baxendell: Would that be run under the same business? Or are you going to have two
businesses in there?
G. Hollern: No , it would be in the showroom.
M. Baxendell: When you're selling these, people come in to look at it. Is that going through your
auto sales, or is this going through another? Are we having two entities in the building or one?
G. Hollern: Well, you can't sell statuary through the auto sales.
M. Baxendell: That's what I was getting at. So you'll have two entities in the same building.
G. Senter: They're both C2s. This is mercantile. There has to be a one-hour fire separation
between the two.
M. Baxendell: So you are now aware of that and that's what you will have to contend with if you're
trying to do two businesses.
S. Hollern: Contend with what?
M. Baxendell: The Code on that.
S. Hollern: Yes, we know we've got to dump a lot of money in the building.
G. Senter: You're going to have the trucks there, but you're not going to be there?
S. Hollern: We work full time.
G. Senter: You're still legally going to sell your trucks or automobiles out of your home on Lick
Street, but have them down there?
S. Hollern: The State of New York allows you to - you have to have a permanent residence that
you own. They allow you to take your vehicles - that's what they call a floor plan - to anyplace you
want to as long as you've got documentation within the vehicles who you are, your ID number,
telephone number, and contact.
G. Senter: Can I have a copy of your license before you go in there?
S. Hollern: Yes.
M. Baxendell: You want to be in there right? This is where you want to be?
S. Hollern: We would love to .
M. Baxendell: I just don't want you to run into the pitfalls later on. Bring them all up now so we
know what you're looking at. Especially with that property.
G. Senter: They've done auto repair there .
M. Baxendell: They've done auto repair there.
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G. Senter: That's C4 . 2 ; that's a three-hour separation.
M. Baxendell: That's correct. That's why I wanted to bring that up because there was a repair shop,
there was auto sales in the front. It was all one thing which is not allowed anymore. State says no ,
so that's where that C4 . 2 comes into play. I thought I'd make sure you were aware of that because it
would be ideal.
S. Hollern: It would be ideal, but -
M. Baxendell: Not at this point.
S. Hollern: The downfall is that to get a license with the State of New York for repair, it's a huge
mantra that we don't want to get involved in. That's why we take our stuff to a licensed repair person.
G. Senter: That makes it a lot easier.
M. Baxendell: So it won't be a repair place, you'll do all your prep there, all your detailing.
G. Senter: Detailing is no problem.
M. Baxendell: No, that's not a problem at all. It's a wash and vacuum basically. That's part of the
same.
G. Hollern: But it's a lot more building than we would need for that. We'd love to see another
business come in there.
M. Carey: Now are you asking for a permit to sell vehicles and then have the landscaping and
statuary supplies on the side?
S. Hollern: We did pie in the sky on this thinking well, let's put it all out here so they know what
we're thinking. I think initially why we're here tonight is to get permission first to do vehicles.
M. Carey: Okay.
S. Hollern: If we choose to go another step and say okay, let's go down to North Carolina and
bring some statuary up, we would certainly come to you folks and say okay, we've got statuary. This
is what we want to do. How do you feel about this? If someone says hey, Gordy, I want to rent the
back of the building, now we know that we have to come before you and talk to you about it.
M. Baxendell: You'd still have that same problem; two businesses in the same building. And that's
where you get your Fire Code again.
G. Senter: If it's two C2s, then you only need one hour, which is 5 / 8 sheetrock for the fire
separation.
M. Baxendell: Yes, but they'd still have to realize that it's going to be two businesses in one location
and things have to be separated at that point.
G. Senter: I went through the whole building and I explained it.
M . Baxendell: Now you understand where we're going with that?
S. Hollern: Oh, yes.
M. Baxendell: I just don't want you to get caught off guard with that because that's the biggest
thing with that building.
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S. Hollern: See initially what main reason that we're here tonight is to get your okay and
blessing for us to sell used cars at this point in time. And if we choose to do statuary we will come
back or if someone wants to rent it to hopefully do something good for the community in a positive
way, then we'd certainly come back at that time .
G. Senter: They just want an okay to display their cars there.
M. Baxendell: I understand that's what we're looking at right now.
G. Senter: Down the road if they have to come back, they will.
M. Baxendell: And really, the actuality of it is they own the property and they're just parking
vehicles out there that are unlicensed.
G. Senter: For sale.
M. Baxendell: For sale. They would be just out there on display.
S. Hollern: The actual paperwork would take place at 428 Lick Street.
M. Baxendell: Right. I understand that. This is just a - I'm just clarifying it so everybody gets the
idea of what we're looking at. So, you know, you're not going to have ten people around.
G. Senter: Jeff did very well there .
M. Baxendelh Jeff did very well there for awhile.
G. Hollern: No carnivals or anything.
S. Hollern: Yes, we're not going to do any carnivals. Any other questions I can answer for
anybody?
M. Carey: Well, the one thing that we've discussed when Vincents came before the Board, when
they were looking at buying the property, was to close the access on 222 so that people would just pull
into the drive on Salt Road.
S. Hollern: Close that driveway?
M. Carey: Right. Because that's kind of a bad corner. I don't know, what does the rest of the
Board feel?
M. Baxendell: I understand why we it for Vincent, because of the nature of the business. This is
just like a regular driveway at this point. You're not having big trucks and stuff coming in. We're
talking about passenger vehicles coming in and out. You've got a niche and that's a good thing. That
area - there's a need for that size truck in this community.
M. Carey: Anybody else on the Board have questions for the folks?
B. Albro: The only question I may have is if there is two businesses at one time, they were
having trouble with their septic system.
G. Senter: I think that if you have a place of assembly or something like that, it might be a
problem. All they need to do is get approval from the Health Department.
S. Hollern: We got one on closing, certified.
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G. Senter: I 'd like to think they did that. They check the baffles and capacity. I don't know what
the capacity is. I have no idea. You don't need much just for a restroom. It's not that type of a
business.
M. Carey: George, on the Site Plan/ Permit, would you like to put a number of vehicles that they
would be allowed to have on the property? Do we want to limit that?
G. Senter: That's at your discretion.
M. Carey: What does the Board feel about something like that? We do, quite often, limit how
many vehicles we allow people to sell, just so it doesn't become -
G. Senter: Ask them how many.
M. Carey: Well, she said 12 to 15 .
S. Hollern: Well, we don't even have 12 to 15 in inventory. We would like to.
G. Senter: For outside parking, if 15 is compatible with them, I don't see a problem.
M. Baxendell: Would 15 be all right? I mean is that enough capacity, or do you need 20? I'd rather
do it now and put it out there. Get what you need.
G. Senter: That would leave me a little bit of leeway here. Then when I go by I would see how
many cars there were.
M. Carey: I don't remember what was on the Truck Stop that they had.
M. Baxendell: They had over 30. But there were two businesses in there, and that's why.
M. Carey: Okay, well have to send this application to the County. They require that we send
everything that is close or on State or County roads to them to take a look at. So we need to send this
on to the County. Do you people feel we need a Public hearing?
B. Clark: If you send this on to the County, would it need to be revised to just state vehicles
and not equipment and statuary so they wouldn't be confused? Do you want to do that?
M. Carey: Right. We'd make it in the motion that it would be just to sell light equipment or
trucks and cars.
S. Hollern: Campers.
B. Albro: I think we should have a hearing. We did for Vincents.
M. Carey: So does everyone feel we should have a Public hearing?
B. Albro: Then the people out back who were getting used to Vincents coming in can attend.
M. Carey: Right. And now they got cars coming in. Well, Brad, do you want to make a motion
that we have a Public hearing?
B. Albro: So moved.
M. Carey: Our next meeting - guess I better set that one for 8 o'clock, February 21 "'. Do I hear a
second.
B. Clark: I 'll second that.
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M. Carey: All in favor? (All Board members present indicated in the affirmative. ) Carried. So
next month, on the 215` at 8 o'clock.
This becomes Action #3 of 2002 .
S. Hollern: So what do you do at the Public hearing?
M. Carey: Just do what you just did.
B. Albro: If somebody comes in like the people who are out back, if they come in they will want
to know you're going to do. They will ask questions. That's normally what would happen.
M. Carey: We can give you tentative approval contingent upon the Public hearing, if the Board
would like to do something like that.
J. Fitch: And you'll need to receive your County report back.
M. Carey: Right,
G. Senter: You could give them tentative approval.
M. Carey: Right. Because they do have vehicles there now, right?
G. Senter: Yes. They will need a sign application too .
M. Carey: Would somebody like to make the motion that we tentatively approve the Hollern
application for selling trucks, cars, and RVs and campers, contingent upon the outcome of the Public
hearing and a positive recommendation from the County?
B. Clark: III make that motion.
B. Albro: Second.
M. Carey: Brad seconded it. All in favor? (All those Board members present indicated in the
affirmative. ) Approved.
This becomes Action #4 of 2002 .
M. Carey: So unless something terrible goes wrong - it shouldn't ---you've got your sign permit
then? We want to make sure that's valid before the meeting. Thanks for coming; see you next month.
Comments from Supervisor Glenn More
M. Carey: Glenn, do you want to speak to the Board?
G. Morey: One of my key goals for the Town of Groton is to complete a new Comprehensive
Plan. This year we do have money in the budget for this. And also I'm going to pay the committee $25
per meeting up to $300, just like the ZBA and Planning Board. What I wanted to do was get two
members from the Planning Board, two members from the ZBA, two members from the community-at-
large, and two members from the Town Board. I would also like to have somebody from the planning
area to be at the meeting. I 'm asking for you people to choose one; I'd like Monica to sit on it, and one
other person. Duane Randall is going to be Chairman of this committee, and basically what we are
going to do is start off in early February and find out what meetings are going to be on and just
brainstorm and review the Comprehensive Plan we have now that's in effect. That was done in 1993
and it's outdated. And the reason why the Comprehensive Plan is so important to the Town, first of
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all, if you're going to go out and get grants for housing development or even to attract new businesses
to the Town of Groton, we have to have a Comprehensive Plan. The first thing they ask is do you
have one? Second of all, it's going to tell us exactly what we want. The old Comprehensive Plan
basically dealt with the old SCM closing and the affect of what happened to the Town. I do believe it
still affects the Town because there are a lot of retirees out there who were part of SCM and we have to
deal with those situations. But we've evolved over the years and become a bedroom community. I
don't really want to be a bedroom community, but it's still very safe to be a bedroom community.
What we have to do is find out what people want and tell us exactly what we want so the Town Board
has a goal to push the Town to. I know Tom Guihan and I sat on the Village Board when we went
through the Comprehensive Plan there and we spent many long nights talking about what we wanted
to do. We also got a questionnaire out to the Village people at that time .
M. Carey: I was on the Board when we did the Comprehensive Plan and we sent out a
questionnaire to the Town at that time also . I have a letter from the Tompkins County Department of
Planning that we have a new Planning Commissioner. And I was thinking if we're going to be working
on this, it would be kind of good to have him come out and meet with the group. I don't know if we'd
want to do it at the first meeting, or wait until the second meeting. Maybe wait until the second or
third meeting and then all the Board members could come too and discuss ideas with them also .
G. Morey: . . . . . possibilities. It was a lot of fun when we did it for the Village and I think this is
exactly what we need. We have a lot of new businesses here, and if that's all going to take off it really
is something we need to attract industry and a lot of people too .
M. Carey: I think it will bring some interesting things into the Town.
G. Morey: Does anybody want to do it?
M. Gloster: It might be interesting.
M. Carey: Mary would.
T. Guihan: How many do you want, two?
G. Morey: Two from the Planning, two from the ZBA . . .
T. Guiliano. We have Monica and then
B. Clark: Mary would like to do it.
T. Guihan: Sure.
G. Morey : Lyle Raymond and John Pachai will be sitting on it too .
Organizational Business
M. Carey: Well, as long as these people aren't here, we might as well go on with Board business.
We need to select a Chair and a Vice Chair.
B. Albro: I think the one we have is doing a great job.
B. Clark: I'd like to nominate Monica for the Chair position.
M . Gloster: Second that.
M. Carey: All in favor? (All members present indicated in the affirmative. ) Thank you.
This becomes Action # 5 of 2002 ,
Page 11 of 18
(T) Groton Planning Board Regular Meeting Transcript 17 January 2002
B. Clark: And I'd like to nominate Brad as Vice Chair.
T. Guihan: I 'll second that.
M. Carey: All those in favor? (All those present indicated in the affirmative) . Carried.
This becomes Action #6 of 2002 .
M. Carey: For the Chair, I think that in another year we really should look at someone else
being Chair because this will be two and a half years, after this term, that I've been Chair, and I think
it's only right that someone doesn't dominate the Board all the time. I think that next year we should
seriously consider someone else for a Chair and we can be looking at other people here.
M. Baxendell: Whatever you want to do, Monica, is fine.
M. Carey: Well, I don't like to see where somebody dominates a Board and people kind of rely on
you to make all the decisions. Now we have to set the monthly meeting time and date . Is the third
Thursday at 7 : 30 still okay with everybody?
B. Albro : I make a motion that the monthly Planning Board meeting be held on the third
Thursday at 7 : 30 p.m.
M. Gloster: Second.
M. Carey: All those in favor? (All Board members present indicated in the affirmative. ) Carried.
This becomes Action #7 of 2002 .
Thomas D . Jackson, Applicant - 118 Wood Road - TM #28- 1 -29 . 3 - ECHO Housing Unit
M. Carey: Okay, George?
G. Senter: You have an application for a Site Plan Review for an ECHO housing unit from
Jackson (who was not present) . Do you have questions for him?
M. Carey: My biggest question was, that according to what's in the Code that we need the name
of the person living there and the age for the record. And I couldn't find it in the paperwork. And that
is required.
G. Senter: It's his mother, I think. I don't know what her age is.
M. Gloster: Monica, they need to show water and sewer for the ECHO unit, too.
M. Carey: It will be connected with theirs.
G. Senter: There should be no problem.
M. Carey: Do you know if they are getting one of the homes from the County?
G. Senter: They're not. They're going to get a mobile home. I told them it will have to be a
maximum 750 square feet because of the rules and regulations on that. It's hard to find a place like
that. She wants a small place he says. If they get a bigger one than that, they'll have to go before the
ZBA. Just like Tony Z.
M. Carey: You explained to him after the usage is done the home has to be removed.
Page 12 of 18
(T) Groton Planning Board Regular Meeting Transcript 17 January 2002
G. Senter: Yes, and it has to be renewed every two years. I keep a log of those.
B. Clark: Now is that for one or two people?
G. Senter: One . You can have two as long as they meet the age requirement, etc .
B. Albro: And that will stay right there to pass on?
G. Senter: Until when they no longer need it, then the property has to be returned to its original
condition. I explained all that to them .
M. Gloster: So they filed this four or five days ago, the 11'. Did they know we were meeting
tonight?
M. Carey: April called me and told me they had come in with this application and wanted to
know if I'd allow it to come on to our Agenda, and I said yes. We had enough going on tonight, we
might just as well get this stuff taken care of. She did give me a call on it. How does the rest of the
Board feel?
B. Albro: It's pretty much like the one we did, like you said.
M. Carey: Right. The only thing we'd need for the record would be the name and age of the
person to live there because that is what's required.
G. Senter: I'd have to issue a Permit.
M. Baxendell: So you're all set with this setup and everything, George?
G. Senter: Yes. He discussed the generalities with me. I don't have a copy of any of what you
guys have . I'll have to get a copy of it.
M. Carey: It's pretty well off of the beaten path up there.
G. Senter: Yes, he's got plenty of land and plenty of frontage. Doesn't have to worry about that
either.
M. Baxendell: You're satisfied that it's meeting all the codes.
G. Senter: Yes. I think it's a good thing. The County only has a very small quantity of these
units.
M. Carey: With regard to the SEQR, Joan e-mailed me that a lot of the boards now are using a
statement at the end of the applicant's presentation that we don't have to read this whole thing
anymore as long as everybody agrees that it's a Type II Action and would not have a significant impact
on the environment. And so I'd like to read this statement into the record that "Under 6 NYCRR Part
617 . 5(c) 10) , ( 12) or ( 13) of the State Environmental Quality Review Law, the proposed action is a Type
II action and is determined not to have a significant impact on the environment or is otherwise
precluded from environmental review under the Environmental Conservation Law, Article 8 ."
M . Baxendell: I move that we approve the Site Plan for the ECHO housing unit at 118 Wood Road,
as requested, contingent upon receiving the required information.
B. Albro: Second.
M. Carey: All in favor? (All Board members present indicated they were in favor. ) Passed.
This becomes Action # 8 of 2002 .
Page 13 of 18
(T) Groton Planning Board Regular Meeting Transcript 17 January 2002
Proposed New Attachment to Subdivision Applications
M. Carey: Okay, I 've got another thing here. Everybody in should have received a letter from
the Department of Assessment in their packets. It's dated January 2" and it was sent to Glenn. I
have a few questions, and I was wondering did people look it over, and I was wondering if we should
ask this gentleman to come to our next Board meeting? Well, our next Board meeting's kind of full,
maybe the following Board meeting, and just discuss what he wants to do here.
G. Senter: Is that the letter about the GIS?
M. Carey: Yes.
G. Senter: A copy has to go to the County Clerk. Where does the mylar go?
M. Carey: They mylar has to go to the County Clerk.
G. Senter: They don't mention that there . They just take and give one of these paper prints to
the County Clerk. I 'm a little confused about that.
M. Carey: Right. I 'm not sure what is a paper print? One of these like we've got here?
G. Senter: Right. I 've got another question for you. Does some of this stuff need to be
incorporated into your subdivision approvals or regulations, or the Comprehensive Plan.
M. Carey: Either that or when people come in for applications, maybe put on the application or
put an attachment to the application that this is the responsibility of the applicant? Because
according to this, it's not up to us to make sure that this gets to the County.
G. Senter: Right. And when you guys do the Comprehensive Plan, you've got to look at your
Rural Subdivisions and your Minors, because people are really at a loss to know about what's
required. Because if they don't take the mylar copy down to the County Clerk within 62 days after
final approval then it's no more. It's gone. And it doesn't tell them that. And we don't tell them that.
They need something that says hey, this is your responsibility. It's not going to happen. We had a
problem with Thayler. We didn't know if it had been okayed through the County or not.
M. Carey: When people come in to get an application, do they get what is in the Zoning Laws?
Is there something attached to it with the Minor Subdivision telling them what the steps are?
G. Senter: You don't even get into the mylar copies until you get into your Major Subdivisions.
They give you that.
M. Carey: We've always required mylars from the time I 've been on the Board.
G. Senter: It's required for every subdivision, but our Land Use Regulations don't specifically
spell out, under Minor or Rural, what's required as it does in the Major Subdivision. And it comes off
like a general comment for everything, but it's only located in the Major Subdivision.
M. Carey: I guess another thought I had when I read this was if someone is just looking to
subdivide their land and they have no potential buyers for the property, are they going to want to take
this down? If they do get a subdivision and we approve it, this is going to increase their taxes by quite
a chunk.
G. Senter: That's right, and it will be for everybody too. So they won't subdivide until they
have to.
M. Carey: Right. And I'm wondering if maybe that's something that should be brought out to
people when they come in to ask for an application, that after their approval, they will need to take it
to the Department of Assessment because otherwise people will get really mad.
Page 14 of 18
(T) Groton Planning Board Regular Meeting Transcript 17 January 2002
G. Senter: You .guys ought to make sure that everyone knows that once the subdivision is
approved, just what happens. And they need to know that this is their responsibility.
M. Carey: Now is it our Board that would approve something like that, Glenn, or is it the Town
Board that would approve the attachment to the application?
G. Senter: I think you can do that. You are the one who approves or disapproves the
subdivision. And all you're telling them is this is what you have to do. We've approved your
subdivision and this is your responsibility now to make sure it goes to the County.
M. Carey: What are your thoughts on this, Glenn?
G. Morey: We're not changing the Code or anything like that?
M. Carey: No.
G. Senter: Well, with this GIS thing it is a little bit different. And this may have to be
incorporated into the Comprehensive Plan.
M. Carey: Does anybody else have any thoughts on this? Do we want to have something
written up to attach to all the applications?
M. Baxendell: I think that would be easier for people who apply. Let's make it as easy as possible.
Let's do an attachment.
M. Carey: Would April be able to write up an attachment?
G. Senter: Already got it done.
M. Carey: Okay.
G. Senter: II1 give you a copy so you can look at it. We already thought about that.
M. Carey: Okay, because I think it might cut down on some of our subdivisions too once people
realize if they haven't got a buyer for that property they are certainly not going to come in and
subdivide their land. Okay, "These are your responsibilities concerning approval and filing of your
subdivision. " (Monica reads the notice into the record; it is attached hereto for the record. It is noted
that the word "filling' in Item 2 should be changed to read "filing." ) Does somebody want to make a
motion to approve this attachment to all the subdivision applications?
M. Gloster: I move that we approve the attachment to the subdivision application, as written.
B. Albro: Second.
M. Carey: All in favor? (All Board members present indicated in the affirmative . ) Passed.
This becomes Action #9 of 2002 .
M. Carey: Glenn, do you want to run this by your Board too? (No audible reply.)
Page 15 of 18
(T) Groton Planning Board Regular Meeting Transcript 17 January 2002
Comments by Code Enforcement Officer re Site Plan Reviews / Public hearings
M. Carey: George, do you have anything you'd like to bring before the Board?
G. Senter: Yes I do. Why don't you hold a Public hearing at the time of the first review? Just a
question. Most communities I've been in, when they have a Site Plan Review, it has to be in 10 to 14
days before the meeting so it can get advertised in the paper. And if you need a GML review because
you're close to State land, highways, or whatever, it has to be sent in right away. Most of them are set
up that you have a Public hearing . . .
M. Carey: The night that the applicant comes in?
G. Senter: Absolutely. Then it's been advertised and everything and you don't have to have
two meetings for one application.
M. Baxendell: But you'd have to have a deadline .
G. Senter: Yes, so you'd have time to get it advertised in whatever paper you're using, that's
your legal paper. You don't have to have a meeting one month and a public hearing on it the next
month. I think it would be worth considering. You may want to talk with April about it, or somebody.
Sometimes you have to put them off anyway because you don't get the right answers. But with a
Public hearing at the same time, you can say you're approved or not approved and get it done with.
J. Fitch: The application has to be complete though when it comes in. Not just preliminary or
whatever .
M . Baxendell: If it's not complete, they are not on the Agenda.
M. Carey: What does the Board feel? Will we have to change the Code? It really doesn't say.
G. Senter: No . It just says that you have to meet the requirements.
M. Baxendell: They all require public hearings.
M. Carey: What if we wanted to waive a public hearing, would it be up to my discretion then?
M. Baxendell: Just have it.
G. Senter: Minor subdivisions, things like that, you can waive pubic hearings; majors you
shouldn't.
M . Baxendell: If somebody didn't get it in by the deadline, then it means it would be moved to the
next Planning Board meeting. It would be too late. Which means they would wait until the following
month. So as long as they know the time frame -
M. Carey: You would review the applications then, and make sure they were complete?
G. Senter: Yes. But I don't normally receive them.
M. Carey: Oh, you don't?
G. Senter: The Clerk gets it.
M. Baxendell: So as long as it's a complete application they get on the docket.
M. Carey: Well, I think it should be that you see the application too so that if you have any
concerns you can let us know.
M . Baxendell: You need to have it reviewed before it even comes to the Board.
Page 16 of 18
(T) Groton Planning Board Regular Meeting Transcript 17 January 2002
M. Carey: Right,
M. Baxendell: Because you'll pick out -
G. Senter: That's no problem; IM look at them.
T. Guihan: What about notifying the adjacent property owners? Would we have time to do that?
M. Carey: It would be a public hearing that would be advertised.
M. Baxendell: So what's the time deadline? We've got to have 14 days?
G. Senter: Fourteen days for advertising.
M. Baxendell: So let's make 14 days.
G. Senter: Sometimes the Clerk can work it in if she has enough time to get it in the paper.
M. Baxendell: So if we have a cutoff date 14 days before the Planning Board meeting - it has to be
in 14 days before the Planning Board meeting to be on the docket for a Site Plan Review. That gives us
public hearing time; it gives us time to put it altogether. Then they are on the docket. They come in,
it's a public hearing, they're done, and they don't come back again.
M. Carey: So April would file anything that comes in -
M. Baxendell: Any Site Plan Review that comes in would be automatically go to a Public Hearing
Notice.
M. Carey: Right, but we've got to file a lot of this stuff now with the County Planning
Department. They have sent notices that they want stuff.
G. Senter: Hollern's tonight is the only one to affect that.
M. Baxendell: Makes sense to me . I don't know how everybody else feels about that.
M. Carey: Well, we need to make a motion.
M. Baxendell: I move that we hold public hearings on Site Plan Reviews at the same meeting as the
Site Plan Reivew, with all applications to be submitted a minimum of 14 days before the Planning
Board meeting.
M. Carey: All in favor? (All Board members present indicated in the affirmative. ) Approved.
This becomes Action # 10 of 2002 .
Approval of Minutes - 20 December 2001
M. Carey: Oh, our Minutes for December. Do we want to take a few Minutes to glance through
them so we can approve or disapprove them? ( Pause) Okay, does somebody want to make a motion to
approve the Minutes of the December meeting?
T. Guihan: I make a motion to approve them, as written.
B. Clark: I'll second it.
Page 17 of 18
(T) Groton Planning Board Regular Meeting Transcript 17 January 2002
M. Carey: All in favor? (All members present indicated in the affirmative. ) Carried.
This becomes Action # 11 of 2002 .
Adjournment
M. Carey: Okay, if no one else has anything to bring before the Board Pll hear a motion to
adjourn.
Be Albro: I make a motion we adjourn the meeting.
M. Baxendell: I 'll second it.
M. Carey: All those in favor? (All were in favor) . Carried.
The meeting was adjourned at 8:55 p.m.
Jo . Fitch, Recording Secretary
Attachment : Subdivision Responsibilities
2 / 14/ 02
Page 18 of 18
PLEASE READ and KEEP FOR YOUR REFERENCE
THESE ARE YOUR RESPONSIBILITIES
CONCERNING APPROVAL AND FILING
OF YOUR SUBDIVISION
Once you receive final approval of your subdivision, you are required to do certain things to
assure that the subdivision is properly filed with Tompkins County.
1 ) You must bring the survey maps of your subdivision plat to the Groton Town Clerk' s Office
so that the stamp of approval from the Planning Board can be attached . One final map must be
provided to the Town at this time to be placed in your subdivision file . You (or your agent) are
responsible for filing the maps with County Assessment Office and County Clerk. The Town
Clerk' s Office is located at 101 Conger Boulevard, Groton, Phone : (607) 898 -5035
2) Legislation passed by the Tompkins County Board of Representatives on October 16 , 2001
requires that prior to filling a subdivision map with the County Clerk' s Office you must submit
two paper copies of the survey map, with the Planning Board stamp of approval, to the Tax
Map/Geographic Information System Section of the Tompkins County Assessment Department.
A fee is required . The Assessment Office is located at 128 East Buffalo Street, Ithaca, Phone :
(607) 274- 5517 .
3 ) The survey map to be filed with the County Clerk shall be printed upon or be clearly drawn
upon Mylar and have the Planning Board stamp of approval as well as be stamped with the
approval of County GIS Tax Map personnel . The size of the sheet shall be 24 x 36 inches or 18
x 24 inches . The County Clerk is located at 320 North Tioga Street, Ithaca, Phone : (607) 274-
5431 .
Prompt Filing : You must have your map filed and recorded with the Tompkins County Clerk
within sixty-two (62) days of the date upon which the plat is approved by the Planning Board . If
you fail to do this, the approval will become null and void .
Aco,