HomeMy WebLinkAbout2001-11-15 4
TOWN OF GROTON PLANNING BOARD
Minutes/ Transcript of Regular Meeting - Thurs . , 15 November 2001 - 7* 30 PM
Members, Groton Planning Board (*Absent) Others Present
Monica Carey, Chair Joan Fitch, Recording Secretary
Barbara Clark
Tom Guihan
Mark Baxendell
Brad Albro
Mary K. Gloster
Applicants & Public Present
Gary Dennis, Agent for Sumner of NY, Inc . , Applicant; Jackie Dennis
Call to Order
M. Carey: We have a quorum, so I 'll call the meeting to order.
Approval of Minutes - 18 October 2001
M. Carey: The first thing on the Agenda is to approve the October Minutes.
B. Clark: I make a motion that we approve the Minutes for October as they were written.
T. Guiliano Second it.
M. Carey: All in favor? (All members present indicated in the affirmative. ) Carried.
This becomes Action # 33 of 2001 .
Sumner of New York, Inc. RO / Applicant - Sovocool Hill Road - TM # 33 1 6 1 Major
Subdivision
M. Carey: You must be Gary Dennis.
G. Dennis: Gary Dennis, yes.
M. Carey: Okay,
G. Dennis: I work for Sumner of New York and we bought the old Schneider farm, I guess, and
would like to divide it into six lots. I gave you the packages. The only thing on this big map that's not
on all the little ones is the electric lines, and I'm not even positive I 've got those right. I went back
home and I forgot to sketch it out, so I put it in there by memory. But the electric line does run the
whole frontage; I'm just not sure which side of the road. When I got back home, I didn't take good
notes on that, but I don't think that makes too much difference. There is electric all the way down
through the whole frontage . That's the only thing that' s on this map that's not on your little
packages.
M. Carey: Okay.
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(T) Groton Planning Board Regular Meeting Transcript 15 November 2001
G. Dennis: The other thing though that I did do is you guys sent me this UNA Map -
M. Carey: Wetlands map .
G. Dennis: The wetlands and, what do they call it, Unique Natural Area Map. And it reminded
me that on the protective covenants we generally put a wetlands statement, I mean I knew there was
wetlands but I forgot to put this in, so in each of your packages the protective covenants, which I think
is the last page, this is a replacement; there's one more in here now than there is there. It's number ten
and it covers or refers to Article 24 . Anybody want a copy? (Copy of revised covenants containing 11
items provided to all to replace the 10-item covenants incorporated into the Application Package dated
5 November 2001 . ) I slipped in a new number 10; we usually leave what was number 10 as the last
one. It just refers to Article 24 about not doing anything to the wetlands without contacting the DEC
and following the rules of the DEC .
M. Carey: Right.
G. Dennis: It's just a statement that we always put in there when we have wetlands. I just
forgot to do it on the package I gave to you guys. And then what I did do with this, and I don't know if
you even want it, is I took what you sent me and just traced the property on it so you can see exactly
where -
M. Carey: That's what I was wondering. When I looked at that map, I couldn't tell - I thought
maybe the whole front of the property was basically wetlands.
T. Guihan: I went out and looked at it.
G. Dennis: You can see on the one I have in there that's there's nothing different about this
than the one you already have, except I have the property placed on it.
M. Gloster: And this is where the house and the barn -
G. Dennis: That's with the house and barn on it, yes. And right here's the double-wide.
M. Gloster: And they are presently occupied?
G. Dennis: Yes, Paul and his wife live there. Paul Schneider and his wife live there. He'll
probably be moving out in about a month.
M. Carey: Now is this a lot here?
G. Dennis: That's not part of it.
M. Carey: That's not part of the property?
G. Dennis: This lot is not part of it. Actually, the same people own these two . I think they were
some relatives a long time ago. And these two parcels of land got deeded off.
M. Carey: Okay. So they must have been deeded off quite a few years ago?
G. Dennis: A long time ago, yes.
M. Carey: Because I don't remember dealing with any of that.
G. Dennis: And if you look in your package, you'll see what their names are. I think it's
Lamphier.
M. Carey: Okay.
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(T) Groton Planning Board Regular Meeting Transcript 15 November 2001
G. Dennis: And I don't think they live around here anymore .
T. Guihan: No , they live in Houston, Texas.
G. Dennis: Okay. It's parcels 5 . 2 and 6 . 2 .
M. Carey: Okay. So those were the two that were deeded offP
G. Dennis: 5 . 2 and 6 . 2, yes. Houston, Texas. And I have a phone number for them. I tried once
to get ahold of them to see if they wanted to sell this one . I see there's an old, old for sale sign; I just
noticed it tonight on this piece .
B. Clark: It says 63 acres or something?
G. Dennis: 67 . That's what she said. I said it must be six point seven. I called that number and
left a message, but it can't be sixty-some acres because it's right on this frontage where it says, see, 6 . 7 .
The decimal point must have just not shown. It says on the sign 67 acres like she said.
J. Fitch: Can you give me the name of "she" please?
G. Dennis: My wife, Jackie Dennis. I'm sorry; this is my wife, Jackie. At one point I was
wondering if we could it a rural, even though there's six, because the only reason we did the sixth one
is Ruth Beckwith has a double-wide trailer right here. It looks like it's sort of permanently there. She
has a septic and a well, but she never owned any land; she just paid - actually I think it was Paul's
first wife - she' s been paying so much a month to live there. So we're cutting off this small lot to sell to
Ruth so that she doesn't have to move her trailer and all that stuff. She kind of got caught in the
middle of this whole thing, so we're trying to work with her. It looks like her loan was approved and
looks like she's going to buy this 15 acres right here.
T. Guihan: What was her last name?
G. Dennis: Beckwith. Right, she' s not on the adjoiners even though she lives on the property. I
didn't think of that, because she doesn't have a tax map number, so I didn't even put her on here
because she doesn't own land.
M. Carey: Right.
G. Dennis: That's Ruth Beckwith. But it looks like she's going to be able to buy that piece right
there. But it doesn't really matter either way whether it's a major or it's a rural. It's whatever you guys
want it to be. Because it's six lots, I guess it falls into the major, so we'll just proceed like that.
M. Carey: It was filled out as a major subdivision on the application.
M. Baxendell: Just leave it as such.
M. Carey: Right. All the lots have the required amount of road frontage, so we're all set there .
T. Guihan: Is this part of the Bear Swamp right here, or is this just a smudge?
G. Dennis: No, that is sort of a wet area. But if you look, it's not on the wetlands at all. It's not
on the UNA and it's not in the wetlands. But it is a little bit wet in there . And in fact, right in front of
it is what use to be a pond. It's all full of cattails right there. But it's not part of the official NYS
wetland. On the topo map , you can't really tell either, it's right in there . This is just a big copy of the
topo map, and basically why I always run this is so I can trace the roads and stuff on this.
M. Carey: Right,
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G. Dennis: But since I already have it, I give it to you .
T. Guihan: This is it right here?
G. Dennis: Yes, right in there. Right there, see. It's that green patch.
M. Carey: And that's not considered part of that Bear Swamp is it?
G. Dennis: No. It's not part of the DEC wetlands or it's not on the UNA.
M. Carey: So there won't be any regulations on that.
G. Dennis: We do have that 10- acre one on the end, but other than that it's 40, 40, 40, and 50,
and then, of course, Ruth's 15 acres. And the smallest frontage is on Ruth's which I think is 250 feet,
yes, number six, 250 foot of frontage. She wanted us to keep it as small as we could because of her
financial situation.
M. Gloster: Are you expecting to sell those off for homesites?
G. Dennis: Right. Well, the one already has a house, so the other four new - there's a possibility
of four new places. Most of what we sell - I 've been with this company for two years and out of like ten
subdivisions I've worked on, there's like three people that have built houses. Most people just buy
them to just have a place out in the country. Usually, if it's a local person that buys it, it's more likely
to have a house built on it. And we sell a lot of them to downstate people that just want to say I own
a little piece of the country, and then nothing ever happens to it. They just hold onto it for a few
years and then eventually sell it to a local person probably. But very, very few of them do anything
with it. It's sort of an investment for them.
M. Carey: Right,
G. Dennis: We'll advertise these in Ithaca - and these we might actually sell actually more to
local people. I don't know how it will go. I don't get real involved in the selling part of it. Basically,
we're a company of about twelve people; three of us buy land, and we have six or seven sales people,
and then a boss and a receptionist, and that's about it. And I'm one of the people that do the buying
part and go through the planning boards and get that part done . Then we turn it over to the sales
people.
M . Gloster: Will these covenants then be made part of each deed when these people buy these
lots?
G. Dennis: Yes, these will be written right into the deeds. That last page will be right in the
deeds.
M. Carey: The only thing that I'd like to see changed in that first part, that first item in the
protective covenants, it says "In-home offices and bed and breakfast businesses are allowed" but they
need to be in compliance with the Town of Groton local laws. "And all other uses to be in compliance"
- they need to have permits in order to operate a bed and breakfast or home offices.
J. Fitch: So how do you want to see it changed?
M. Carey: It should say "Home offices businesses and bed and breakfast businesses are allowed,
but are to be in compliance with the Town of Groton local laws. " It looks to me you're kind of saying
they can do it without coming to the Planning Board, but they do have to have a Site Plan Review and
permit in order to operate .
J. Fitch: Just cross out the word "other. "
M. Carey: Okay, all uses to be in compliance -
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G. Dennis: Good idea. I 'm surprised that they haven't caught that before .
J. Fitch: But this is a sharp Board.
M. Carey: Thank you, Joan. Okay, does anybody else have any questions?
B. Clark: I have one question. That little 15-acre lot, that little one that' s not part of it, what' s
the road frontage on that?
G. Dennis: That' s 230 feet • road frontage, but that's a deeded parcel already. It's about 233
according to the tax map.
B. Clark: Okay.
G. Dennis: I haven't read the deed on it, but the tax map says 233 feet.
M. Carey: Anybody else have any questions?
T. Guiliano, Yes, number five on your covenants, "No parcel shall be subdivided. "
G. Dennis: Shall be further subdivided.
T. Guiliano. Couldn't parcel number three be subdivided?
M. Carey: I was looking at that myself.
G. Dennis: It could be by Town of Groton regulations and stuff. It's just that we've had better
luck more with the neighbors and the people that buy the property, they like the idea that's it. It's not
going to get cut up any smaller. We want to buy a piece of the country. We want to know that this
guy isn't going to make four or five little spaghetti lots or something. Beyond just local boards and
stuff, it's actually written in the deed he can't go any smaller. Generally, more people like that than
the other way around. So that's why we do it. It would be on that deed, no further subdivision, just
like it will be on every one of them. So it will be a 40-acre lot forever. Of course 100 years from now
when they need more land they'll probably override that or something. But that's how it will be in the
deed right now.
M. Carey: Okay. Anymore questions? And our new reader tonight is going to be our
schoolteacher. Start right at the top, Part II .
Board Member Mark Baxendell then reads aloud Part II of the Short
Environmental Assessment Form. Negative responses were obtained to
all questions in Part II, with the exception of Cl (it was noted that
wetlands are involved and that the applicant will follow the applicable
NYSDEC regulations) , and C3 (noted that the action will not alter UNA-
31 , Bear Swamp , Groton) . Therefore , it was determined by the Planning
Board, upon the motion made by Member Brad Albro, seconded by
Member Barbara Clark, with all members present voting in favor, that
the action, based on the information submitted, will not cause any
significant adverse environment impact, resulting in a Negative
Declaration .
This becomes Action #34 of 2001 .
M. Carey: Okay, this is a major subdivision, and in our zoning laws we can either waive a
public hearing or hold a public hearing. How does the Board feel?
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T. Guihan: Did a notice go out to all these people that are listed as property owners?
G. Dennis: Not from us, no.
M. Carey: I believe they do it here. They send out -
T. Guihan: But there's nobody here, if they sent them out.
G. Dennis: I guess, not knowing there was going to be a public hearing, nothing would have
went out. Because if there was a public hearing, then it would have been in the newspaper.
M. Carey: And the neighbors would all have been notified.
M. Gloster: Is our agenda publicized anywhere? I was reading the open meeting -
M. Carey: No .
B. Albro: I can't see why we'd have to have a public hearing.
M. Carey: Well, I guess I have to agree with Brad. There's not a lot of homes up there. This
place has been for sale at different times for several years under different - I think Schneider tried
selling it several times.
M. Gloster: It doesn't look like the land has been worked or taken care of in a long, long time.
M. Carey: No, he hasn't farmed in several years. It's basically been sitting there idle. I don't
think any of the neighbor farmers have even worked it because it's so wet it wasn't worth trying to pull
their equipment across it. So the lots are extremely good-sized lots and -
M. Baxendell: I don't see why - I 'm happy.
M. Carey: Somebody want to make the motion to waive the public hearing?
B. Clark: I 'll make the motion to waive the public hearing and approve the subdivision as
requested.
B. Albro: Second .
M. Carey: All in favor? (All Board members present indicated in the affirmative . ) Carried. I
guess you're all set.
This becomes Action # 35 of 2001 .
M. Carey: You'll have to get all the Mylar copies and bring them in and they'll have to stamp
them and I 'll have to sign them.
G. Dennis: But because we've done the approval, do I still come to next month's meeting?
M. Carey: No, you're all done with us. Just bring your Mylars in and we'll get them stamped
and signed.
G. Dennis: Thank you very much. I talked with the surveyor today. The surveyor will be Paul
Koertz out of Greene. We use him quite a bit. Actually I talked to one of his head guys, I didn't talk to
Paul himself. They are probably not going to get to it for two or three weeks yet to start the survey
because of deer season.
M. Carey: Just bring them in to the Town Clerk, she'll let me know.
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(T) Groton Planning Board Regular Meeting Transcript 15 November 2001
G. Dennis: Right here in the front?
M. Carey: Right. She'll let me know when they're here and I'll get them signed for you .
G. Dennis: Great. Okay, you have my number and stuff if there's anything pops up you forgot
to ask or anything. I'll be glad to bring anything in.
M. Carey: Thank you for coming out.
G. Dennis: Thank you.
M. Carey: We appreciate it.
Other Business to Come Before the Board
M. Carey: Who has any other business to bring before the Board? (There was no response. )
Adjournment
M. Carey: Anybody want to adjourn?
B. Clark: I make a motion we adjourn the meeting.
B. Albro : I 'll second it.
M. Carey: All those in favor? (All were in favor) . Carried.
The meeting was adjourned at 7* 57 p.m.
Joan . Fitch, Recording Secretary
12/4/01
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