HomeMy WebLinkAbout2001-02-15 TOWN OF GROTON PLANNING BOARD
Minutes/Transcript of Regular Meeting - Thursday, 15 February 2001 - 7 : 30 PM
Members, Groton Planning Board (*Absent) Others Present
Monica Carey, Chair Joan Fitch, Recording Secretary
*George Van Slyke Ellard Sovocool, Town Councilman
*Van Travis Mark Gunn, CEO
Barbara Clark
Tom Guihan
Mark Baxendell
Brad Albro
Applicants & Public Present
Jim Kowalski & David Luddington of Etron, Inc, Applicant
The meeting was called to order at 7 : 30 p.m. by Acting Chair Monica Carey.
Approval of Minutes - 19 October 2000 Regular Meeting
M. Carey: The first thing on the Agenda is to approve the November Minutes, the last time we
had a meeting. Would anybody like to approve or disapprove the Minutes .
M. Baxendell: I make a motion to approve the Minutes.
M. Carey: Do I hear a second?
Be Clark: Second it.
M. Carey: Any questions or comments? All in favor? (All members present indicated in the
affirmative.) Passed.
This becomes Action # 1 of this meeting.
Setting of Date & Time for Regular Meetings
M. Carey: Okay, the second thing on the Agenda is every year we have to set a date for the
meeting and a time for the meeting. For years we've held it the third Thursday of the month , and we
used to hold it at 8 o'clock, but then we got rid of a lot of the farmers and now we're down to 7:30. So ,
does anybody have any objections to holding it the third Thursday at 7 : 30? That fine with you, Joan?
J. Fitch: That's fine .
Be Clark: I make a motion that we use the third Thursday of the month at 7 : 30 p.m. for our
regular meetings.
M. Baxendell: I'll second it.
M. Carey: All in favor? (All those present indicated aye .) Carried.
This becomes Action # 2 of this meeting.
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Election of Chairperson & Vice-Chairperson
M. Carey: Now, the next thing on the Agenda is we need to elect a new Chair.
B. Clark: I make a motion that we elect Monica as Chair.
B. Albro: Second ,
M. Carey: All in favor? (All those present indicated aye . ) Carried. Thank you . And we need to
elect a Vice-Chair. In this little letter I have here, Van says that he does not want that position this
year. Do we have any nominees on the Board? Barb?
B. Clark: Do you want me to nominate someone?
M. Carey: I'll nominate you .
B. Clark: Oh . Okay.
B. Albro: I'll second that.
M. Carey: All in favor? (All those present indicated aye.) Carried. So I guess that means I'm
Chair for the next year and Barb's going to be Vice-Chair.
B. Clark: And I hope you make all the meetings.
This becomes Action # 3 of this meeting.
County of Tompkins, RO/Etron, Inc. , Applicant - Intersection of NYS Route 38, Peruville Rd.,
and Old Peruville Road - TM # 36- 1 =21 . 1 - Site Plan Review for Proposed Business
M. Carey: Now we're on to the Site Plan Review before us, and we need your names for the
record.
J. Kowalski: Jim Kowalski ,
D. Ludington: David Ludington.
E. Sovocool: Monica, is that side in the Town of Groton or in the Town of Dryden?
M. Carey: Where they want to put it?
E. Sovocool: Yes.
M. Carey: It's on this side of the Peruville-McLean Road where the -- well , we can ask.
M. Baxendell: Where Tompkins County had their thing; it's the Town of Groton.
B. Albro: I think the other side of the McLean-Peruville Road is in the Town of Dryden.
B. Clark: Now, do you have one of these maps Lou?
T. Guihan: Now just for my information , what happened to the County barn that was there? Did
they just fold up and move away?
M. Carey: I don't know.
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J. Kowalski: They consolidated .
D. Ludington: He's employed by the company. I'm representing John Guo who's in China. He's the
president of the company. John was a grad student of mine years ago, and I'm very close to him and he
asked me if I would come on his behalf.
M. Carey: Well, I think the first thing the Board members would like to know is a little more
about the business. Could you give us a general idea?
J. Kowalski: We develop hi-tech dairy equipment. Right now we do a variable speed vacuum pump
control . We're doing research and development on new dairy technologies.
M. Carey: I thought that said milking machine , but then I said no, that must be milling
machine .
J. Kowalski: No it is milling machine . That's part of it, development, and we do a lot of prototyping
and that is to build - -
M. Carey: Are you building vacuum pumps for milking systems?
J. Kowalski: Yes, well , a little bit more hi-tech ; we're working on a robotic milking system.
M. Carey: Oh, one of the robotic ones. Okay . That' s interesting.
T. Guihan: So there's some manufacturing?
D. Ludington : Light assembly for the frequency drive.
J. Kowalski: But then there's the development work going on at the same time .
M. Carey: Now they have robots over in Europe milking cows. Is that sort of what you're
working toward is getting a robot setup here?
D. Ludington: Yes, except it will be a little bit more affordable and efficient for the farmers here.
M. Carey: Yes, they are pretty expensive .
B. Clark: How many employees do you have?
D. Ludington : Six,
M. Carey: Okay, so from the map it looks like you're going to take that whole parcel where the
old County building is?
D. Ludington : Yes, it's encircled by the roads on all sides.
M. Carey: Right, and then you put your operation inside of that County building?
D. Ludington : Yes,
M. Carey: You're not planning on adding on buildings or --
D. Ludington: We're looking at using the -- there's no office in that building, so we need an office .
We're looking at different options now as to how we can get an office there, whether we do a trailer.
And there's challenges with that, but there's advantages too. There's a good possibility of just dividing
off a room inside to use as an office .
M. Carey: Right. There's just one big open area in there now?
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D. Ludington : Yes. There used to be a trailer there , all set up and everything, but it was a field office
or something and they didn't have any plumbing or anything.
Be Clark: Aren't there some recycling dumpsters there? There used to be.
D. Ludington : There's none there now.
M. Baxendell: There's a couple of open hopper bins and things there . That's about it.
M. Carey: Now do you plan to expand employees once the operation gets going more?
D. Ludington : We hope so .
M. Baxendell: To a six-person operation?
M. Carey: You're located where now, down on Brown Road?
D. Ludington: Yes . Down by the airport.
M. Carey: How large do you plan to expand the employee base?
D. Ludington: Well, I'm not sure right now how large we're going to do it or how much we're going to
subcontract. We'll see how far it develops. We're not suitable how suitable that building is to
manufacturing either, so it may be or may not be .
M. Carey: Anyone else have any questions for these folks?
M. Baxendell: It sounds like a good thing.
J. Kowalski: It's a good use of the building.
M. Carey: It's a good use of the land.
M. Baxendell: Great location.
M. Carey: I don't know if everybody looked in their books, but if you look at the Zoning Map , it
is allowed in that area as an M- 1 , which is what this will be in . And if you looked in the Land Use
Activities on page 54, it's allowed in that District. I was trying to decide what we should call it, but I
guess an agriculture industrial research activity and the design and production of prototype models
basically. I looked at the one above it and it sort of fits it, but I think it's the one below it. So that is
allowed in that District with a Site Plan Review. So if we look at our Site Plan Review laws on page 72 ,
and we have to go with the Special Permit, and with this I believe that we probably -- I don't know how
you feel about doing a Public Hearing. I mean , there's not a lot of people around, but you're in an M- 1
District and I don't know if we'd really see that much --
Be Clark: It's completely surrounded by roads.
M. Baxendell: And there are no neighbors .
D. Ludington: Across the road.
Be Clark: Everything's across the road .
M. Carey: Now is there going to be a lot of noise , or will everything be done inside , right?
J. Kowalski: It will be a lot quieter than it used to be .
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M. Baxendell: It will be an improvement.
M. Carey: Right. But we need to look at everything when we look at something like this.
J. Kowalski: The only thing that I can say is that basically we will need to bring a cow in.
M. Carey: Well, you're located in a good area. So does anybody have any feelings or thoughts or
any more questions?
T. Guihan: I think we ought to have a Public Hearing. We don't know too much about it, and all
these neighbors on this one side are going to be concerned.
M. Carey: I have to tend to agree with you because we're in the Zoning Laws for the M- 1 District
we sort of did require that public hearings be held in the M- ls, and it is a new business coming into
the area. I doubt we'll have many people there . We don't attract too many people at public hearings. I
guess I should take that back, right? There was one situation that came before our Board. Do I have
any more comments or questions for these folks?
J. Kowalski: When would that be held . What's the lead time as far as --
Me Carey: I think we have to give the paper five days or ten days. Do you know, Mark?
M. Gunn: I think it's ten.
M. Carey: I was thinking the same thing. - So we'd have to put it in the paper and it's up to the
Board whether they want to hold a Special Meeting. We could hold a Special Meeting and have the
Public Hearing, or have it just with our regular meeting next month .
J. Fitch: Does this have to go for GML review?
M. Carey: Yes, it's going to have to go to the County. I was going to bring that up that the
County needs to be notified because you're on a County road . The Peruville-McLean Road is a County
road, so it will have to be sent to the County for their review. They really don't send back too much ,
but they need to be notified that there's something opening up there, although they probably know
anyways. How soon were you folks thinking about getting something started there? I mean do you
want to hold a Public Hearing earlier if the Board's agreeable to it?
J. Kowalski: I'm not sure what the result of the Public Hearing is likely to be, but we're not ready
to move into it. There's not a big rush -- a month's soon enough . That way you can just do the
regular thing and not hold anything special. If we had special needs, then you could do something
sooner.
T. Guihan: Could we hold the Public Hearing at our next meeting?
M. Carey: Yes, that's what we're saying .
T. Guihan: That's in a month ; is that okay with you?
J. Fitch: It would be March l5th .
D. Ludington : That will work.
M. Carey: Does somebody want to make that motion to set the Public Hearing date?
Be Clark: I make a motion to set the Public Hearing date on March 15th at 7 : 30.
T. Guihan: 1 second that.
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M. Carey: All in favor? (All those present indicated aye .) Carried .
This becomes Action # 4 of this meeting.
M. Carey: Now we will do the SEAR -- environmental assessment. I'm sure you've heard of this .
Who would like to read? Mark, okay.
Board Member Mark Baxendell then read aloud Part H of the Short Environmental
Assessment Form. Negative responses were obtained to all questions in Part U.
Therefore, it was determined by the Planning Board, upon the motion made by
Member Barbara Clark, seconded by Member Brad Albro, with all members present
voting in favor, that the action , based on the information submitted, will not
cause any significant adverse environmental impact, resulting in a negative
declaration.
This becomes Action # 5 of this meeting.
M. Carey: Okay, so we've had the motion for the Public Hearing, we've had the motion for the
environmental so we don't need anything more .
D. Ludington: Will you let us know?
M. Carey: You'll get a notice of the Public Hearing. There's a cost to it too .
J. Kowalski: We thank you .
M. Carey: Thank you for coming; we appreciate it.
Other Business
Harvey Baker - Route 38
M. Carey: Does anybody have any other business to come before the Board?
M. Gunn: I have something real quick. Probably -- Barb, I know you were here and I know
Monica was, and I'm sure Joan was. The Harvey Baker Blackberry Hill Antiques on 38 -- it was March -
- I believe it was February 16th or something of that nature. Yes, he was in for --
M. Carey: A year ago?
M. Gunn: He came in for a boundary change , this, that, and the other thing. He actually lives
across the street from the property where the antiques place is. And I've got Stephen Vincent, owner of
GSG Furniture Stripping & Refinishing, who has been inquiring through Don Palmer who's his
financial advisor, about using that business down there for furniture stripping. I went through the
whole thing and determined that they can't do it down there . Setbacks, the hazard requirements, the
zoning, and everything else in that area says no, they can' t. Well, he shed new light on the thing
today, Mr. Vincent did . He called me down to his office and asked me if there was any way I could give
them a temporary permit to run a business down there, and I says well, when you don't meet any of the
State and local laws, well no , I can't give you one . So he did let me know, and I kind of had it in the
back of my mind that they were doing it, but they're using Mr. Baker's property down there as a
warehouse. Now, I had thought --
M. Carey: Where the furniture business was?
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• (T) Groton Planning Board Regular Meeting Transcript 15 February 2001
M. Gunn: Where the furniture business was, where Mr. Baker had his Special Permit revoked,
and then he came in and got a new one for the new garage that was going to go out back for the
woodworking shop . Now I went through the Minutes and stuff and I don't see anything. As a matter
of fact, he in here states that he is never going to rent any space out in the building again . So right
now it's being used without a Special Permit as a warehouse being rented to somebody else. Even if he
came in to try to get a Special Permit, it won't meet State codes for the warehouse . I was kind of
hoping you would remember without going through Minutes. Did you remember anything about that
meeting yourself, or --
M. Carey: It was pretty nasty .
M. Gunn: But it states pretty clearly in here -- he does have a Special Permit, Like I said, Mr.
Vincent does for a new garage .
M. Carey: I thought he wanted to sell that building. I thought he had somebody interested in
it.
B. Clark: He said he had a buyer, a possible buyer, and that's why he wanted the boundary
change because on the tax map the boundary line ran right through the middle of the building.
M. Gunn: Right. Exactly. And I wished he have shed a little light on who that buyer was. I
believe it is Mr. Vincent from a year ago . Now he's ready to fork over money for the business and he
can't use it for that. I'm not finding anything where he can use it -- a furniture warehouse comes into
a moderate hazard as storage . It's not a low hazard as storage because of the BTUs that it burns. So
you have to keep certain setbacks and this and that and the other thing from highways, property lines,
and he doesn't meet any of it. The building does not meet the Code . It's a wood-frame structure , so the
laws get more stricter. So I just wanted you to be aware. There's probably going to be a letter going out
and Mr. Baker will probably be right back in here again. Sorry to do that to you .
M. Carey: When do you think he'll be back in?
M. Gunn: It might be -- he gets a little hot-headed and something of this nature where he's
trying to make a sale on this building, he's not going to be happy at all .
M. Carey: What would he need to do to bring that building up to Code?
M. Gunn: Well, first of all , the State requires it has 100-foot setback, property lines and
structures .
M. Carey: And how far back is it --
M. Gunn: He's 40-foot off the road and the road is the property line. I told him right off the bat
that I couldn't begin to help him. The State has more control over that then I do . You're on the State
highway. He's too close to Gordy Schultz's property, which is the one where we moved the line around
a little bit. And I did, I gave it the benefit of the doubt. I went through the book as best I knew how
and tried to find -- and it's not even my job to find them loopholes, but I didn't want him coming back
to this Board saying well, this is something he didn't tell me . So I did as much as I could to try to figure
out where I could get him in that building. I can't see where I can get -- you've got to have a sprinkler
system. The building, and I don't have the square footage , but it's huge. I didn't believe how huge that
was . He's only allowed 2000 SF for a wood-frame structure of that fire hazard , so there's no way. And
then it has to have a sprinkler system. I just didn't see anything. He's got the waterways around it.
The original thing Mr. Palmer told me was X amount of land was going to go with it, and it looked to
me by all maps that the crick cut that right in half so how he was going to get the chemicals for the
furniture restoration, a septic and water out there for employees -- I don't see it as possible . But Mr.
Baker's not going to see it that way.
M. Carey: Now can he go to the State? I mean if he really starts coming down on you --
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M. Gunn: Well, that's what I enforce is State laws.
M. Carey: And being on a State highway too --
M. Gunn: Right. And not only that, he wanted a furniture refinishing slash warehouse ; that in
itself isn't even allowed in that building. You can't have more than one occupancy in a wood-frame
building.
E. Sovocool: They used to do that there , though .
M. Gunn: On a much smaller scale though . Mr. Vincent -- and I don't by any means want to
push this guy out of our Town . He has huge contracts coming up -- Cornell , Berkeley - - he's going to
redo all the furniture for these colleges. And we need that business around here . He ran into the same
thing with George Senter down here in the Village . He told me today that he's going to build in
business park, or industrial park -- whatever they call that thing up there on 222 . He's got two
months to prepare for this contract coming in from the universities and he can't do it. And that's the
last thing I want to do is push Mr. Vincent out, but I can't --
M. Carey: What about the old fish barn up there on 222?
E. Sovocool: They are operating.
M. Gunn: And he knows it -- he'd have all the conveniences of sprinkler systems, hydrants,
public water to hook up to which we don't have out there . So that's where I'm coming from and you've
got a background when Mr. Baker comes.
M. Carey: Now what is that building good for?
B. Albro: Well, there's been a lot of business in there for years.
M. Carey: How long ago was that permit revoked for Baker?
M. Gunn: Well, his permit was for a single person owned furniture refinishing -- kind of a hobby
type thing. When you jump into a magnitude of having the strippers and all that, it just skyrockets.
M. Carey: How many employees is Mr. Vincent talking?
M. Gunn: He's going to have to have a lot. If I recall , Don Palmer said something in the range of
12 or more . And they have spray booths and stuff like that, but it doesn't minimize the hazard
classification . I just can't get by that. There's no circumventing that classification, so he can't do it
and I'm making you guys aware that he can 't do it. And I'm sure Harvey's going to be back in
wondering .
M. Carey: Well, if you send him a letter just outlining that there's nothing any Board can do .
He really has no recourse to come to this Board .
M. Baxendell: When you put the letter together, just cite the Code and section, photocopy it, and
send it to him.
M. Gunn: It will be a lengthy letter. It's not going to be anything that he's even going to care to
listen to though .
M. Baxendell: Well , that way he's got all the copies.
B. Albro: You can't use that building for any type of storage if they weren't doing any --
M. Gunn: It depends on what is stored . You see , the hazard classification comes in by what
they're storing. If they are storing highly --
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B. Albro: If they're storing bedrooms full of furniture that come out of Cornell --
M. Gunn: Highly flammable . It's the BTUs that its burning. If you get over 180, 000 BTUs, I
think it's per square foot which is basically when you're putting in the materials, the wood, the
lacquers that are on the furniture, the paints, you add that all up and you're getting way over the
BTUs, and that's what jacks up the hazard classification . You store something that's not flammable of
that magnitude - - you even get into dusts and that's high hazard . I haven't even been in the building
to tell you if --
B. Albro: So there's really nothing in his business or organization that he could even do
anything with?
M. Gunn: Harvey is a one -man show which all through the Minutes -- he doesn't want
employees, just Harvey and doing a piece of furniture for somebody. That's his own garage . But on the
magnitude of refinishing a college's furniture , that just --
B. Albro: Now how did they have that as an antique shop then, if that is the case? Back when
it was Blackberry Hill Antiques with all those combustions and furniture and things -- I've been in
there and it was loaded with --
M. Gunn: That goes into the date - - the date of his original permit was 1986; NYS Codes were
devised in '85 . There was a whole bunch of things that weren't even thought of then. And it took fires
-- big factories going down - - before they really started doing hazard classifications and stuff like that,
so --
B. Albro: So if they were to go in and metal stud that and put fire-resistant - -
M. Gunn: You would have to end up getting all of the wood out of there. Even the steel on the
outside isn't any good. You can't get back far enough . Even if you had a concrete structure there , he
has to get to that 100% buffer and he just can't get that.
M. Carey: Now if Baker had kept his permit going, would you have been able to revoke
something like this?
M. Gunn: On the magnitude, yes. His classification is different. He's a home hobby business
type thing, you know.
B. Albro: Well John Klanderer (SP?) was in this end for years and years. He's a cabinetmaker
and his tools and his machinery -- anybody who needed anything fixed could go there - - he could
build . He had a business there for a lot of years.
M. Gunn: He's not even in there . Just the other day it dawned on me driving by Doug's Trash
that Doug's not even in there. There's things that fall through the cracks and people just don't think
about it.
M. Carey: And you don't see the change of ownership or tenant --
M. Gunn: Had I not seen Stephen's huge white panel truck that says GSG on the side, I
wouldn't have known that he was in there. But I wasn't trying to be the hard guy and give him a hard
time. I knew he was in there . I knew there was furniture in there . The trucks are parked out there and
I'm sure they're not broke down because they are brand new. I was trying to give the benefit of the
doubt that he' s going to come up with another building and in talking with him today he's really
looking at needing space and I know, for the sake of the Town and my job and people on the Board, I've
got to get a letter out and tell him that he can't use it for that hazard classification of storage .
M. Carey: Would the whole Board be able to get a copy of the letter you send just so that we're
all informed , because there could be repercussions with something like that.
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B. Albro: Yes, because this was all ahead of you and me. You've probably been in since the
beginning, but I know Steve personally and I've done a lot of business with him, and I know a lot of
things he's trying to do that are just not panning out for him.
M. Carey: It wouldn't hurt for the new Board members to get a copy of those Minutes.
M. Gunn: The meeting of 20 April 2000 is when it was.
M. Carey: Then everybody can get a feel of what the situation is because I don't know if you've
ever dealt with Harvey Baker,
B. Clark: He was quite irate when he was in here . Did he get his property line changed?
M. Gunn: Yes. It was in that same meeting.
B. Albro: I'm sure his goal is to sell the building.
B. Clark: Yes.
M. Carey: That was his goal when he was in here a year ago . And he hasn' t put up another
building. Wasn't he going to put up another building?
M. Gunn: Yes, he got a Special Permit. That's the other thing that's going to fire him up . He's
got a Special Permit --
M. Carey: That will be running out.
M. Gunn: Yes, it runs out next month. And without significant -- he never got the Building
Permit and without any kind of, you know -- I'm supposed to revoke the Special Permit after nothing
has been done in a year. And that's another thing that's going to fire him up .
French Property on Sobers Road
B. Clark: I have one question. The French property on Sobers Road -- unlicensed vehicles .
M. Gunn: Yes. I have -- that is kind of a -- the day, the very day I got your message as a matter
of fact, I drove up through there and I saw them. I pulled in the driveway and I knocked on the door.
I've dealt with the gentleman before, and I spoke with - - there was some people there -- I think she was
watching somebody's child so there was people there with their coats and stuff on and I didn't want to
get into it with her so I asked her to have her husband call me . She lit right into me that fast. She got
into it and I told her I didn't want to get into this right now. Have your husband call me . And she was
relentless. I said fine, if you want to get into it now, you've got more than you're allowed to have for
unregistered vehicles. Then she started right in on the stock car and they don't get registered. And I
said that's fine, that's your one unregistered vehicle . So she assured me they were selling the other
vehicles; they were up for sale. I said well make it apparent. Make it be seen that they are for sale. Put
the signs on them. And I figured case closed. And about two weeks later she called up Colleen ranting
and raving that I said I was going to take her to court and this , that and the other thing, and that she
was allowed this, that and the other thing, so 1 , in turn, pumped out another letter last week or the
week before and I gave them to the first of April.
M. Carey: Do they have a permit to be selling vehicles up there?
M. Gunn: No, it's junk vehicles that they've been buying and they've been breaking down . One
was in a wreck and they're waiting for an insurance settlement so they can get rid of the vehicle .
M. Carey: They are their own personal vehicles?
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M. Gunn: Yes,
M. Carey: Do they have plates on them?
Be Clark: No. You know what property it is?
M. Carey: No, I'm not sure.
Be Clark: If you go down Sobers Road from 3413, on the right-hand side - - it's a yellow, junky
house . There's a pickup truck and two cars that have been sitting there. None of them licensed . And
then an old junk race car that's all wrecked up . It really is unsightly.
M. Gunn: I've got them over a barrel because they had violations last year as well. So I gave
them until the first of April which I don't think they will be gone by then.
Be Clark: I doubt it .
M. Carey: Okay. Any more questions from anybody? Thanks for your report, Mark.
Adjournment
M. Carey: Do I hear a motion to adjourn?
Be Clark: I move we adjourn the meeting.
T. Guiliano, I'll second it.
M. Carey: All in favor? (All members present indicated in the affirmative.) Meeting adjourned.
The meeting was adjourned at 8 * 15 p .m.
Jo . Fitch
Recording Secretary
3 /5/01
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