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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2000-08-17 TOWN OF GROTON PLANNING BOARD Minutes/Transcript of Regular Meeting - Thursday, 17 August 2000 - 7 : 30 PM Members , Groton Planning Board (*Absent) Others Present Monica Carey, Acting Chair Joan Fitch , Recording Secretary George Van Slyke Glenn Morey, Town Supervisor *Van Travis Tyke Randall, Town Councilman Barbara Clark April Scheffler *Brenda Talbot (Resigned) Applicants & Public Present James Henry, Attorney for Arthur Webber & Guido Petrella, Applicants; Marie Palmer Brookman, Applicant; Beverly Oaksford , Applicant; Lee Miller, Deb Tillotson, Ronald Palmer The meeting was called to order at 7:30 p .m. by Acting Chair Monica Carey. (Note : Approximately the first half hour of the meeting was not recorded on the transcriber; Minutes for this period are not, therefore, generated verbatim, but are in the standard format.) Approval of Minutes - 20 July 2000 Meeting A motion was made by Member April Scheffler to approve the Minutes of the 20 July 2000 meeting of the Town of Groton Planning Board as submitted . The motion was seconded by Member George Van Slyke, with the vote recorded as follows: Ayes: Acting Chair Carey Nays: None Member Van Slyke Member Clark Absent: Member Travis Member Scheffler Motion carried . This becomes Action # 1 of this meeting. Arthur Webber, RO - Cor. Salt Road & Clark Street - Part of TM # 17- 1 -26 . 15 Acting Chair Carey recognized Attorney James Henry, representing the applicant who was seeking a boundary change to convey a strip of land at the east end of this parcel to the adjacent landowner, Guido Petrella (TM # 17- 1 -25 at 688 Clark Street Extension) , as shown on a portion of a survey map and a copy of the tax map which accompanied the application . Attorney Henry was also the authorized representative of Mr. Petrella. This 77. 38 ± by 364.4 ± strip would, as stated by AC Carey, make a straight rear boundary line for Webber and a " smokestack" for Petrella. With no further questions or comments from those present, Acting Chair Carey asked Member Van Slyke to read Part II of the Short Environmental Assessment Form for the Board's response. Negative responses were obtained to all questions in Part II . Therefore , it was determined by the Planning Board, upon the motion made by Member Scheffler, that the action , based on the information submitted , will not cause any significant adverse environmental impact, resulting in a negative declaration. The motion was seconded by Member Barabara Clark, with the vote recorded as follows: Ayes: Acting Chair Carey Nays: None Member Van Slyke Member Clark Absent: Member Travis Member Scheffler Motion carried . This becomes Action # 2 of this meeting, Page 1 of 17 (T) Groton Planning Board Regular Meeting Transcript 17 August 2000 A motion was then made by Member Van Slyke to waive the public hearing and approve the boundary change as requested . The motion was seconded by Member Clark, with the vote recorded as follows : Ayes: Acting Chair Carey Nays: None Member Van Slyke Member Clark Absent: Member Travis Member Scheffler Motion carried . This becomes Action # 3 of this meeting. Beverly Oaksford, RO - Bossard Road Extension - TM # 15 - i -2 . 2 Acting Chair Carey recognized Mrs. Oaksford who was present along with Lee Miller, the proposed buyer of a portion of her property on Bossard Road Extension . According to information submitted along with the application for a flag lot, the section of road on which the subject property lies was abandoned by the Town of Groton in 1985, with half of the right-of-way reverting to the respective landowners on the east and west sides of the road. A survey map of the proposed 7. 87± acre parcel, prepared by Milton A. Greene, PLS, also accompanied the application, along with a tax map showing this parcel out of the 51 .3± acre parcel owned by the Oaksfords. The purpose for the flag lot, as depicted, was to provide access to the parcel to be purchased by Mr. Miller. Mrs. Oaksford stated that there is a distance of 126± feet from where the blacktop ends on Bossard Road to the edge of the property proposed to be purchased . Mr. Miller explained that at the present time he had no intention to build anything on the lot, but would utilize it mostly for recreational/hunting purposes; in the future he would like a small cabin and a pond . In response to Acting Chair Carey's question, Mrs. Oaksford stated that the land had never been subdivided before ; it has always been two lots. Member Van Slyke questioned, "If you deed off the half of the roadway as a flag lot, what does that do to access to the back parcel? You are blocked right off. " Mrs. Oaksford responded that there could be a right-of- way provided to gain access to that portion of the property. Access to the other adjacent parcels was discussed as the Board wanted to make sure that no parcel of land would become landlocked . Mrs. Oaksford stated that the owner of the "landlocked" parcel shown on the tax map has never had a problem accessing the land. Acting Chair Carey stated that there would be no building allowed "in the pole . " She referred to page 36 of the Code book which explains the flag lot. The Board members then discussed utilizing a shared driveway. Mr. Miller stated that he always thought of it as such. M. Carey: Do you have any ideas on this, Barb? Do you want to make any comments? Be Clark: Well, with just that being plain land , nothing built on it, he could decide to build on it and he'd have to come in for a Building Permit and there would have to be a roadway to get in with building supplies and materials and all that. M. Carey: That's why if we approve it, that's why we have to approve it with this pole being accessible to especially emergency vehicles. Be Clark: Right. At one time that was a passable road all the way back through? Be Oaksford: Yes. Be Clark: Well, there must be a road base there . Be Oaksford: Yes, there used to be a house right here . Be Clark: It probably wouldn't be that much to maintain it. Just clear trees and brush . Page 2 of 17 (T) Groton Planning Board Regular Meeting Transcript 17 August 2000 L. Miller: You can drive down through there now. I spent a week last year opening that whole road up . I drove a two-wheel drive pickup right down through there all last year. B. Clark: I wouldn't think it would be a problem. M. Carey: What do you feel, George? Is it starting to make more sense to you? G. Van Slyke : Yes, but, you know, I still think that the shared driveway situation probably needs to be in there somewhere in whatever we do because we certainly don't want her to lose access to that property in the back because , you know, that really would be landlocking it if you sold off the flag and she had no opportunity to get rid of that. So you really -- that's not part of our plan here . We're not planning on landlocking anything. So I don't know if they'd be willing to have a shared flag for that property. I don't see anything wrong with it, I guess, if they are still willing to do that. M. Carey: April? A. Scheffler: I agree with George . I think it sounds like the way to go to me. I think we should have it written up that way though . G. Van Slyke: It definitely needs to be in anything we do here -- that the pole itself would be -- that access -- 25 feet back would be shared between Mrs. Oaksford and Mr. Miller, B. Clark: That shared driveway would only go to the north boundary of the property that he's buying? M. Carey: What was your question , Barb? B. Clark: The shared driveway would only go to the north boundary line of the property that Mr. Miller is buying? M. Carey: No , we would put in that the pole would extend to the end of the property line . G. Van Slyke : Yes, I think that would have to be done. B. Clark: All the way to here? M. Carey: Right, G. Van Slyke : Yes. I think that would have to be stated in there . M. Carey: Because the other side , aren't we running into Cayuga County over there? Isn't that - A. Scheffler, Cayuga County is right here . Is this Steve's or is Steve's in the corner? B. Oaksford: Steve is kind of down a little bit. A. Scheffler: So this is all Steve's all around here? G. Van Slyke: Yes . Part of it, not all of it. B . Oaksford: Must be he's got this and a little bit back in . So he has road frontage even though he didn't use that. G. Van Slyke: Are you talking about that 1 . 82 up there in the corner? B. Oaksford: Yes. What happens then to this piece right here? Of course that's not ours, but I guess he'd have to go in this way. Page 3 of 17 (T) Groton Planning Board Regular Meeting Transcript 17 August 2000 G. Van Slyke : That's the Town of Locke . Isn't that a road there? B . Oaksford: This is. This is abandoned now. If he ever wanted to sell a lot off here, this guy -- G. Van Slyke: He'd have to come from the public highway that's closest to him . So if he was going to do that, he'd have to flag it out. I'm just supposing if he was trying to do something back in here that he would flag out and just do this. Sell that whole section. B . Oaksford: This gets interesting. G. Van Slyke: Yes, it does get interesting. B. Oaksford: This right here, this three acres, the man I don't think knew it but he had a right of way up our property but he never could have got there . He'd have been stuck. So he went in on somebody else and cut wood . I don't know he got there actually to tell you the truth . He owns the place on Devlin Road, but he owns that little three acres. G. Van Slyke : Okay, do you know where the right-of-way goes to get to him? Does it come back through your driveway back here? B. Oaksford: No, it's on this piece of property. Goes up through here. G. Van Slyke: Unless he knew somebody on that other road that allowed him to get back on their property to do it. M. Carey: Is everybody ready to do the Environmental Assessment Form? We have to do this form for every action we take . It's regulations. April? Board Member April Scheffler then read aloud Part H of the Short Environmental Assessment Form . Negative responses were obtained to all questions in Part II except C5 where the Board stated it's a flag lot and the pole part shall be used and maintained as a shared driveway. Therefore , it was determined by the Planning Board, upon the motion made by Member Van Slyke , seconded by Member Clark, with all members present voting in favor, that the action, based on the information submitted, will not cause any significant adverse envrionmental impact, resulting in a negative declaration. M. Carey: Is there a motion to approve or disapprove this? B. Clark: I make a motion to approve the flag lot for Mr. Miller from the Oaksfords, and that they will maintain the pole for a shared driveway, and to waive the public hearing. G. Van Slyke : I'll second it. M. Carey: All in favor? (All members present indicated in the affirmative.) Passed . B . Oaksford: Thank you . G. Van Slyke : You're welcome . Good luck with it. It's the use of land that needs to be used, I think. Marie Palmer Brookman, RO - LaFayette Road (Fall Creek) - Tm # 28 - 1 - 15 . 16 M. Carey: Okay, next on the agenda is a Minor Subdivision for Marie Palmer Brookman . Is that you folks? M. Brookman: Yes. Page 4 of 17 (T) Groton Planning Board Regular Meeting Transcript 17 August 2000 M. Carey: Could you move over here and give your names for our secretary, please? R. Palmer: Ronald Palmer and Marie. M. Carey: Okay, would you explain to the Board what you're proposing here? R. Palmer: Well, we're proposing to divide a parcel approximately 23± acres into three parcels. It's located on LaFayette Road one-quarter of a mile from Ogden Road . Refer to the map if you would like . G. Van Slyke : We have one already. M. Carey: Now is this all your property right here and you're subdividing it? R. Palmer: Marie here owns this and she has sold two parcels of it and it turns out that she needed to do this subdivision. That's why we're here. M. Carey: Right. They are all big lots. R. Palmer: Right. The smallest one is 2 . 65 acres . M. Carey: They've got plenty of road frontage it looks like . On Lot A and B I wasn't sure exactly how the division was going to be made because we've got a line through here and then we've got a line - R. Palmer: That's why I did this one in color because there's a lot of other -- previously there was other parts added to the property. M. Carey: Okay, so the B parcel is going to kind of jog down . R. Palmer: It goes right here and over to this here. Where the blue is, that's the B parcel. The red is the A. M. Carey. And which lot has a place on it already? R. Palmer: The B lot. M. Carey: The Blot. Okay. R. Palmer: I just came by there on the way over here and the electricity has been run there and they are actually living there. The well and septic have been approved. M. Carey: Well, you can sell off one lot without a subdivision , but the rules kicked in when you went to get the Building Permit for the second one . A major subdivision is more than four lots, but you can sell off one lot off your parcel. R. Palmer: But after that M. Carey: Right. It then becomes a subdivision . G. Van Slyke: Parcel A is the other one that's sold? R. Palmer: Right. A and B have been sold and the closing has already been . The way we found this out is Parcel B came for a Building Permit. G. Van Slyke: They put a double-wide up there, right? R. Palmer: Then things came to light. Page 5 of 17 (T) Groton Planning Board Regular Meeting Transcript 17 August 2000 M. Carey: Barb , do you have any questions? B. Clark: Parcel C -- is that sold or not sold? R. Palmer; There's a purchase offer on it at this point and it's in the process of being sold. G. Van Slyke : I'll tell you, that's a pretty good use of the land there . M. Carey: Does anybody have any questions? A. Scheffler: No , I think it's pretty straightforward. The land isn't much good for anything else. M. Carey: Just building lots. A. Scheffler. It's not farmland, that's for sure . M. Brookman: I guess I was supposed to fill this out and bring it with me . M. Carey: Who would like to do the SEAR this time? We have to do the SEAR on everything that comes before our Board. G. Van Slyke: Barb , go for it! Board Member Barbara Clark then read aloud Part ll of the Short Environmental Assessment Form . Negative responses were obtained to all questions in Part IL Therefore , it was determined by the Planning Board, upon the motion made by Member Van Slyke , seconded by Member Scheffler, with all members present voting in favor, that the action , based on the information submitted, will not cause any significant adverse envrionmental impact, resulting in a negative declaration. M. Carey: Would someone like to make the motion to approve or disapprove the subdivision on Lafayette Road? B. Clark: I'll make the motion to approve the subdivision of the Brookman property on Lafayette Road as requested and waive the public hearing. A. Scheffler, I'll second it. M. Carey: All in favor? (All Board members present indicated in the affirmative.) Passed. M. Brookman: Thank you very much . Resignation of Planning Board Member/Proposed New Board Members M. Carey: Moving right along, April said that she received Brenda Tallbot's resignation in the office today. I'd just like to bring that up and , of course , we've got a list of people , potential people for the Board . I think we've got some good applicants here . G. Van Slyke: Yes, I think so too. M. Carey: I wonder if we could have the applicants maybe come to our next Board meeting and we could ask them questions. How would the Board feel about something like that? Because we want people who are going to be able to have time to spend working with us. B. Clark: I think that's a good idea. And if there are any others that might be interested . Page 6 of 17 (T) Groton Planning Board Regular Meeting Transcript 17 August 2000 M. Carey: Want me to contact them, Glenn? G. Morey: Go ahead . A. Scheffler: We could invite the Town Board to come too? M. Carey: Sure . A. Scheffler, They are the appointers. M. Carey: And everybody come with questions, you know, or at least to get a feel of how -- A. Scheffler: What was the deadline set for that do you remember? G. Morey: I don't believe we set a deadline . . . A. Scheffler. Two weeks, I think, we ran it. I was thinking we put a date on it. I know there is a couple other applications out. I don' t know if they'll come back or not. G. Morey: I think it's a good idea to have somebody come in and we can talk with them. G. Van Slyke: Yes, I think it would be informative for them. Then they're not walking into something that you're not aware of what your responsibilities are . M. Carey: We were all appointed thinking it was going to be lots of fun. Okay, well I can contact all these people and ask them to attend our next Board meeting and that we'd like to meet with them and that the Town Board will be present for the meeting . G. Van Slyke : And that way everybody knows where the people are coming from and the Town Board can make their own decisions about who they want to appoint. Obviously, you want someone who's going to be cooperative . B. Clark: How many do we need to appoint? M. Carey: Two now. And April, if you get any more, let me know. Or if they bring in their application , you could just tell them. Discussion - Agricultural Data Statement M. Carey: Now we need some discussion on this Agricultural Data Statement. A. Scheffler. It seemed to me , with everything I read about it, that everything that's required in it we are pretty much covering except to identify where the agricultural lands are and whether or not it's going to have any impact. We have the location, we have the surrounding neighbors, we have tax map number; we have everything. M. Carey: I think our agriculture land is outlined in the zoning laws. A. Scheffler, I just mean to make a statement in our meeting when we do an application . G. Van Slyke : That it's in an Agricultural District you mean? A. Scheffler: Yes . We could, you know, when I do a map like this I could indicate -- like we have Fouts here - - I could indicate this is ag land that' s being used for agriculture. We could have a little code or something that we could encode these maps for the surrounding areas and put it right on there. It would be part of the record. That would identify, you know - - Page 7 of 17 (T) Groton Planning Board Regular Meeting Transcript 17 August 2000 M. Carey: Right. Because when I looked at this statement, everything that's on here we have that all on here . A. Scheffler: To maybe identify what land is actually being used to produce an agricultural crop of some sort . Make it a statement that could be attached right to our SEAR form, you know. Another question, almost, to that as to whether we feel it's going to have an impact on the ag. M. Carey: Either that or the applicant would have to fill this out anyway. Either attached that to when they come in for an application -- attach an Ag Data Statement with it and if it pertains to them they fill it out; if it doesn't, then they wouldn't need to fill it out. Now we would make a recommendation to the Town Board on this, right? Because really, most of Groton is in agriculture . A. Scheffler: Well evidently it's been on the books in Town Law since 692 or something I think it said that we're supposed to do it. M. Carey: We've had a lot of projects go before the County Board and they've never come back with that. Even with the Elm Tree , the Haines farm is on the back side of the Elm Tree . G. Van Slyke: Well, the Agricultural Statement anyways is just to inform people that the pieces of land around the property where this thing that we're trying to decide upon is being used -- M. Carey: for agricultural purposes . G. Van Slyke : And like you say, most of the Town is agricultural so you probably would almost necessarily have to have the Ag Statement be a part of the paperwork for a person to come in and do this if they're in an Ag District and they know it. Maybe that's the recommendation we should make to the Town Board that this become another step in the procedure so that when they come before us we know that, okay, you're trying to do another activity in an agricultural zone and you've got to understand that there's agriculture around you and then that's got to be part of the thing that you've got to understand . M. Carey: Well, I'm wondering if we should include this Local Law 2 that April just handed out to us, the right to undertake agricultural practices in the Town of Groton? So someone knows that a farmer has the right to farm and they can't come back to our Board saying well, he's spreading that liquid crap out there and it stinks to high heaven. A. Scheffler: That actually goes with our Building Permit Application, M. Carey: Oh , it does go out with it. A. Scheffler: Yes, but I don't think it would hurt to go with a subdivision application -- M. Carey: Right, I would think that it would be attached to all applications that came in so that everyone, no matter if they're going to buy a piece of land , that they know there's a farm somewhere nearby and he's going to be spreading manure and that he has the right to farm. A. Scheffler: Well, it wouldn't take much to staple that to the application that goes out. M. Carey: Would somebody like to make a proposal for the Town Board and send it to the Town Board? G. Van Slyke : I'd make that proposal . M. Carey: Do you have what we're going to send to the Town Board, Joan? J. Fitch: That you're going to attach the Agricultural Data Statement and Local Law 2 of 1997 , M. Carey: Okay. Page 8 of 17 (T) Groton Planning Board Regular Meeting Transcript 17 August 2000 G. Morey: What are you going to attach them to? M. Carey: Anything -- A. Scheffler: All zoning applications. M. Carey: Yes, Planning Board applications, I guess . Do I hear a second? Be Clark: Second . M. Carey: All in favor? (All Board members present indicated in the affirmative.) Passed. G. Morey: Wouldn't the applications for the Planning Board go to the Zoning Board automatically, and if it was included in the Planning then it would have to be included in the Zoning? M. Carey: I would think so . G. Morey: Is it the same application that they get? A. Scheffler: No. They get a variance application, but it still has to do with a zoning issue , you know. G. Van Slyke: It has to do with the laws in our book, but the person who comes before the ZBA comes for the purpose of getting a variance because they can't get satisfied here . So it's one step beyond . G. Morey: But the paperwork should be the same shouldn't it? Other than the variance application? A. Scheffler: You mean anything extra that went with it -- I don't see why not. Yes. G. Van Slyke: I don't think it would be a problem putting that in. G. Morey: I agree with that. It should be included . A. Scheffler: And actually, the Ag Statement I think is supposed to be for a varaince -- is that on that one sheet what it's supposed to be for? Anything? Any application for Special Permit, Site Plan Approval, Use Variance or Subdivision Approval - - so Use Variance would be ZBA. M. Carey: Right, A. Scheffler: Requiring review by Town Board, Planning Board, or Zoning Board of Appeals. Comprehensive Plan Review - Beginning thru Chapter 5 M. Carey: Okay, the next thing on the Agenda is Comprehensive Plan. A. Scheffler: I spoke with Lyle today and their meeting is the 22nd and he would like to know if any of you are interested in coming to that work session -- if we had anything that we go over tonight that we might want to present to them to think about. M. Carey: The only thing I kind of saw in the Background was growth from the 90s in the last 20 years - - now that we're in the year 2000 that probably should be changed, right at the beginning . In 1972 , the Village and Town of Groton developed a general development plan to guide Groton's growth into the 90s ; that needs to be changed into 2000. Page 9 of 17 (T) Groton Planning Board Regular Meeting Transcript 17 August 2000 Be Clark: Do we have new population figures? A. Scheffler: No, not yet. Be Clark: If we change this now, are we going to have to change it again when the Census figures come out? G. Morey: What we're trying to do right now is to see if the Comprehensive Plan is still what the Town of Groton wants, number one . Number 2, take some notes so when in 2003 when we do this again officially, we can go back and pinpoint the different areas that we have to change . But right now what we're doing is I wanted to have everybody review this to see whether it's still what the Town of Groton wants and where we can make our changes. That's all. We're not going to officially change it right today. It's just an informal session and we are reviewing it. Then in two or three years we'll sit down with a representative from the ZBA, Planning Board, Town Board, and community leaders at large to evaluate it and go through the whole thing. A. Scheffler: We'll have the 2000 statistics by then too to change the statistic part of it. M. Carey: On page 3, what it would be if it was marked, it does have flag lots in there. Really, it says right here this type of lot is usually created to provide access to lands at a distance from an existing road without having to construct a new road. Basically, that was what the proposal was before us tonight. G. Van Slyke : Let's go back to the Executive Summary just for a minute . Maybe if we went section by section it would be easier to handle . Does anybody have any objection to the idea of the map of the high intensity and low intensity areas? A. Scheffler: I do . G. Van Slyke : Is that a problem at this present moment? A. Scheffler: I don't think that this should be a high intensity area. It's a flood plain and it's the Owasco Valley Inlet. M. Carey: Which area are you speaking of? A. Scheffler: This area along the inlet. No , this area actually. This area. M. Carey: That would be along 38? A. Scheffler: Yes. Well, actually, that doesn't extend this far out as some of the other maps that show it should be a more intensely -- Me Carey: I think the reason we did that is because of Lewbro's being situated out there and not having a lot of growth because it would better for businesses to develop more out that way because Lewbro's was already there and they do create some odors and whatnot. A. Scheffler: But this doesn't show the Industrial District. The Industrial District is what concerns me going all the way out through there . I understand what you're saying about Lewbro's, but the rest of it is basically - - I wouldn't want to see an industry there. It's the flood plain and the inlet there . M. Carey: Okay, Be Clark: High intensity -- is that just covering commercial or is it covering residential? M. Carey: Well, up here in the definition, these areas are Page 10 of 17 (T) Groton Planning Board Regular Meeting Transcript 17 August 2000 G. Van Slyke: to be for development. A. Scheffler: I really have the same thing on Fall Creek as far as thinking about the watershed. M. Carey: So what are you thinking? A. Scheffler: Well, I don't know. But I don't think -- you know, at the time this was done, the watershed issues were not that big. And I think we have to incorporate that into some of it at least. M. Carey: Right. I think our thinking was that it wouldn't be a highly developed area simply because of the watershed, and out to Lewbro's one side of the road has developed, but that was developed long before we even started doing this. And really, you haven't had much development on the other side except for the VanBenschoten operation there. G. Morey: Just make a note that we should review the map and also have you noticed that I don't see any directional arrows here? And keep in mind also the high intensity areas are just -- we have to expand somewhere. A. Scheffler: I know, I know. G. Morey: People are going to come into town and say where can I put my company or whatever. Be Clark: Well probably the most development has been up on Route 222 with the fish farm and the places on the left up there -- McCarty Is and it seems like that would be a good area. G. Van Slyke: I think, too, that a lot of this is the idea of Route 38 going up there is probably one of the reasons that was designated because normally you would want to develop on a main road -- anything that you're going to put in there -- even a small industry kind of thing . You'd want to have transportation access you know. And as far as Fall Creek is concerned here, you know, coming out of McLean - - I think that, here again, LaFayette Road -- now we just had a subdivision today so you've got development along there and there's still some farm land there going back to McLean that could still be developed I would assume. A. Scheffler: I don't think the Fall Creek area is as much of a flood plain type area though . M. Carey: But you haven't really seen a lot of development along there . Where that subdivision is it's definitely on the high side . Be Clark: We haven't had the rain that we used to have either. G. Van Slyke : We can always put a dam back up there . M. Carey: Okay, so on to the next page . I felt that the purpose of the Town of Groton Comprehensive Plan is still pretty much what our Board is trying to do. G. Van Slyke : Right, A. Scheffler: That one class that we went to she said we should define what we mean by rural character. Do we all have a definition of that? Be Clark: What does the dictionary say? G. Van Slyke : My place is really rural . You don't get any more rural than I am. Be Clark: Mine is too . A. Scheffler: Are we talking about farms or are we talking about rural homes, or are we talking about open areas, wooded areas? Page 11 of 17 (T) Groton Planning Board Regular Meeting Transcript 17 August 2000 G. Van Slyke: I think that a combination of all those things goes into a rural setting. You couldn't have a rural setting if you didn't have open fields and spaces, and you don't have woodland and things like that. I think that's what we meant by the character, the rural character, as opposed to having concentrated developments in particular areas . G. Morey: You don't want to restrict yourself today to defining rural character it's going to be a problem in future years. That's why rural character -- everybody has a feeling of what a rural character is -- not neighbors five feet away from your back door. I think if you did define something you would loose a lot in the future. A. Scheffler: That's right, too . G. Van Slyke : Oh, yes. If I was in the middle of Manhattan , my definition of rural character would be a little different, too . A. Scheffler: Yes, it's like going camping. So many people think going to a crowded campground is camping and for us it's like why would you even go there? G. Van Slyke: But how many people do you see doing that? They'll pay $50, 000 for a camper and they'll go park it in some thing where you've got another camper right next door to you . What fun is that? M. Carey: I'm always amazed that they don't start fires. G. Van Slyke: It doesn't make any sense. You buy a camper, you go out in the wilderness someplace and pitch a tent. A. Scheffler: But you don't have sewer hookup though. M. Carey: Okay, onward . G. Morey: I'm really surprised they had ECHO housing here . . . M. Carey, It was just starting to come in -- G. Van Slyke : We had one on Champlin Road . There's one on Champlin Road that they put in that came before us. They asked for the ECHO housing. I think that's something for the future down the road . M. Carey: Oh , definitely. G. Van Slyke: I think it should be left in there . I just kind of marked this off too -- on the economic development. I think that the feeling here is that we're not looking for huge industries to come into the Town of Groton to participate . Most of the time it's going to be smaller, one- , two- , or three-man operations or smaller entrenpreneur kind of things that will fit in here. The days of the big industries, Smith Corona, Pall Trinity, they are all going down the tubes so I think this is still a good thing to have in the plan , that this is what our goal is. That we're not looking for somebody major to come in because I think we're dreaming. M. Carey: Wish they had page numbers. I guess once we do get into they do have page numbers. G. Van Slyke : The interpretation or the introduction would be the same thing -- just a rehash of the executive summary and so on . M. Carey: The last 20 years -- the last how many years? Page 12 of 17 (T) Groton Planning Board Regular Meeting Transcript 17 August 2000 G. Van Slyke: Okay, looking at Chapter 2 -- I see everybody's there . Does this seem to a mission statement for the Town of Groton? Or do we have some other desire? G. Morey: I think it's a catch-all. Basically it's very a very generalized statement. We do want the character of the Town to stay the same . The goals seem to be very good and meet our future needs as well as the present needs. I think we are cooperating with the Village and I think Rick Case is working with the developing of the roads and things like that. I don't see anything wrong with that. I ask you, is there any other goal that we are interested in? B. Clark: Well, I think these ten goals pretty much cover everything we would want for the Town of Groton. I mean you can expand on any one of them, but I think basically to keep it simple may cover it all. M. Carey: Because we don't want to limit ourselves and I think that was one of the biggest things when we first did this. We didn't want to limit anything that was within reason , so like you said, we could expand on them all but, to me, I think most of them are saying exactly what we're hoping to accomplish in the Town. G. Morey: I like the speech . G. Van Slyke : There's a little typo there -- library kept open. M. Carey: In this little speech here, I think the library does attract a lot of families to Groton . We have an excellent library system -- it's in the Village , but a lot of people look at the fact that Groton does have a library when they are coming into the Town. And the kids have a lot of access to a lot of things there. And the library does a lot of things for kids. They put on all sorts of weekend things for families. As far as administration goes, I think that's all to stay the same . A. Scheffler: I think we need an update on our services . G. Morey: Also, does the Town Court still . . . $39000? A. Scheffler. I don't know. Some of this stuff we need to check out to see if it's still viable . Like there isn't a day care anymore . We have a Constable position, but it's not filled . G. Morey: But its there. A. Scheffler: The SPCA does our dog contract. And I think there's a lot of other things that we contribute to that aren't listed here that we need a little update on. G. Morey: Head Start 's still here, isn't it? A. Scheffler: I don't think so. M. Carey: On Church Street there's some sort of a Head Start, B. Clark: I drive to it. I pick them up every afternoon and take them up to the Elementary School . A. Scheffler, I think that's why maybe Colleen doesn't think that it's there because we don't donate to it anymore . B. Clark: It's funded by the County. A. Scheffler: It's different than it used to be though , I do know that. I don't know exactly what's different about it. G. Morey: Now there was a private one . Page 13 of 17 (T) Groton Planning Board Regular Meeting Transcript 17 August 2000 A. Scheffler: And we have the new Joint Youth -- whatever you call it. M. Carey: The Town contributes to the Joint Youth Commission , G. Morey: Recreation Coordinator. M. Carey: Is the historic house over there called the Old Meeting House still? G. Morey: Yes. M. Carey: Well I didn't know that. I thought the name had been changed. Chapter Four, A. Scheffler: We no longer have a Peruville-McLean Road . It's Peruville Road. M. Carey: I call it Peruville-McLean . A. Scheffler: Well its not on our official map . Not for 911 . The whole thing from 34B is called Peruville Road for 911 purposes and on our official map. M. Carey: All the way to McLean it's called Peruville Road? A. Scheffler: Yes. G. Van Slyke: So it must be not the Peruville-Lansing Road either, right? A. Scheffler: No. M. Carey: That's officially 34B. A. Scheffler: For 911 and our official map that's the Peruville Road . B. Clark: All the way to where? A. Scheffler: The Town Line . M. Carey: Both directions it's considered Peruville Road from Cortland County to - - A. Scheffler: Not to Cortland County. The McLean-Cortland Road goes -- M. Carey: from McLean to Cortland . A. Scheffler: Right, M. Carey: But from McLean back to 38 now that's just the Peruville Road? A. Scheffler: Yes. M. Carey: Everybody will get that mixed up . Everybody thinks the Peruville Road is 34B. G. Morey: How do you know where you are? A. Scheffler: You look at your Town Directory. M. Carey: Other than that, I don't think many of the streets have changed much. We don't have any new roads in the Town of Groton . B. Clark: Weren't they putting in a new road on Elm Street for the fish farm? Page 14 of 17 (T) Groton Planning Board Regular Meeting Transcript 17 August 2000 A. Scheffler: That's in the Village . M. Carey: Under public transportation it's not TomTran anymore is it? A. Scheffler: No, it's TCAT and I don't think they stop here seven times a day. I do have the schedule out there though . M. Carey: I think it's only a couple of times. A. Scheffler: The list up above -- I know some of those have been done but I don't know. Is there a four-way stop at Chipman's Corners? B. Clark: Yes, A. Scheffler: And then we got the traffic light. G. Van Slyke : Wait a minute . Where do we stop on Chipman's Corners? B. Clark: Chipman's Corners and Old Stage Road . G. Van Slyke: The other part of that is on the other side of Old Stage Road, on the Groton City thing. Somebody's going to get killed there because nobody stops at those stop signs. I think that's an area for an accident waiting to happen . M. Carey: Well, the speed of the trucks on Old Stage Road. They've got to stop now so they're not getting much speed on them. I don't think we'll be able to do anything with the use of McLean as a shortcut. I even take that. G. Van Slyke : They're still objecting to them putting in the curbing`? That hasn't gone through yet has it? G. Morey: No, they redesigned it and it cost more money than they had in the budget so they have to wait until 2001 . A. Scheffler: Is the plan to put that thing in the center of the street or no? G. Morey: No . A. Scheffler: That's gone by the wayside? G. Morey: Yes . There's one other concern about the truck idling vibration not only through the Village but out through McLean - - terrible . M. Carey: Yes, those salt trucks are wicked. B. Clark: There's not really anything we can do about that is there? G. Morey: No, but it is a concern. The big concern is the truck route through McLean and the Village. It's a New York State highway and we have no restrictions on that. B. Clark: Maybe a stop light at 222 and Main Street, A. Scheffler: I would like to see that. That is such an awful corner. B. Clark: As a bus driver, it needs to be there . That's a dangerous intersection for school buses. Page 15 of 17 (T) Groton Planning Board Regular Meeting Transcript 17 August 2000 M. Carey: I don't see too much wrong with the sewer because we don't have a sewer. A. Scheffler: The only thing -- it talks about water and sewer and possibl sharing with the Village and what their capacity is - - I was just wondering because they run that up to the new annexation . Their view of that may have changed a little bit on what their capacity would be for any sharing that might take place in the future. G. Morey: What they've been talking about in the near future is having a water and sewer district. It would be outside the Village and the people in the district would pay for the extension of the lines and the use of the water and sewer. There's several places just outside the Village within the Town that is developable for residential areas. Last summer when they were very dry, I still think that they produced 300,000 GPD and the water usage never got over 280,000. And last summer was very dTy* Be Clark: What effect does the fish farm have on the water or sewer? G. Morey: Right now, nothing. They want 40,000 GPD and their maximum would be 80,000 GPD per day when they put two additional buildings up . M. Carey: Wouldn't it be quite costly to extend all this out? The residents would end up paying quite a -- G. Morey: Somewhere around a thousand dollars a foot. But if you share that over 100 houses or something like that, it's not that much more money. Be Clark: But if you consider the cost of a septic system and a leach field and all that, and drilling a well. A. Scheffler: What are they thinking -- like out toward the end of Old Stage Road and 38? G. Morey: The Cornelius farm -- how much is a septic system, about $ 10, 000 now? T. Randall: No, I've got about 5 in mine and mine's a raised bed with a pump which is higher than a lot of them. And that was five years ago . M. Carey: I think they're around 8 , 9 thousand right now. Depending on how deep you go for a well, that could be anywhere from $ 1 ,000 to 4 or 5 thousand . You'd have to have enough people to send it to to make it pay also I would think. G. Morey: I also think you should put directional arrows on all of these maps. B. Clark: And maybe one or two major roads indicated . A. Scheffler: It would be nice to have the road names on there . The County must have helped with these maps, didn't they`? I'm sure that they have much more sophisticated maps now that they can provide . Actually, these are right off the tax maps from the looks of it. M. Carey: Do they show the contour of the land? A. Scheffler: They were telling us that they were going to have that capability eventually to put the contours on the tax maps and all kinds of stuff. I'm sure what they can provide us with now are much more sophisticated than those and have a lot more information on them. M. Carey: Any more on Chapter 4? Chapter 5. A. Scheffler: Not much we can change about the soil type . Page 16 of 17 • (T) Groton Planning Board Regular Meeting Transcript 17 August 2000 G. Morey: The nicest part of this whole chapter is the unique natural areas. Here's a place where there's some really unique areas in the Town of Groton. A. Scheffler. Maybe we should ask Tyke to speak since he's on that Committee . G. Morey: I notice that the Clark house isn't on this either. B. Clark: Is that a unique natural area? M. Carey: Any more comments? We have been through the first five chapters . Maybe before our next meeting, just do a couple of chapters -- Chapter 6 and Chapter 7? We'll have people coming in on the applications. A. Scheffler. We can wait and see how many applications we get. M. Carey: What do you mean? Right now we got four or five . A. Scheffler, For next time. M. Carey: Well, hopefully, if we get -- you said you had two out still . A. Scheffler: Oh, those applications -- I'm sorry. I was thinking about subdivisions and those things. G. Van Slyke: So you want to do just what? M. Carey: Six and seven. Because if we're going to have the people come in -- G. Van Slyke: Right. For the interview. M. Carey: We don't want to get too much on there in case we do have a lot on the Agenda. Adjournment M. Carey: Any other business to come before the Board? (No response.) Move to adjourn? G. Van Slyke: So moved . A. Scheffler: Seconded . M. Carey: All in favor? (All members present indicated in the affirmative .) The meeting was adjourned at 9*09 p .m. Joa Fitch Recording Secretary 8/28/00 Page 17 of 17