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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2000-05-18 TOWN OF GROTON PLANNING BOARD Minutes/Transcript of Regular Meeting - Thursday, 18 May 2000 - 7 :30 PM Members, Groton Planning Board (*Absent) Others Present *George Totman, Chairman Joan Fitch , Recording Secretary Monica Carey, Acting Chair Mark Gunn, Town CEO George Van Slyke Sheldon Clark, Town Councilman *Van Travis, Acting Chairman Al Thayer, Applicant Barbara Clark April Scheffler Brenda Talbot M. Carey: Okay, first thing on the Agenda is to approve the Minutes of the April meeting. (Time was noted as 7 : 30 p .m.) Approval of Minutes - 20 April 2000 M. Carey: Has everybody received them and read them? Could I have a motion to approve them? B. Talbot: I make a motion we approve the Minutes. G. Van Slyke: Second . M. Carey: All in favor? (All Board members present indicated aye. ) Al Thayer & Robert Thayer, ROs - Pleasant Valley Road - TM # 36 - 1 -66 M. Carey. And I take it you're Mr. Thayer? A. Thayer, Yes, M. Carey: And everybody has T. Wright: Excuse me , is this the Planning Board? M. Carey: Yes, T. Wright: My name's Tina Wright with the Groton Independent. M. Carey: Okay, everybody has the application from Mr. Thayer? Has everybody looked it over? What you're asking for is a Boundary Change, right? A. Thayer. Yes, M. Carey: And we gave you a subdivision back in 1998, about a year ago. May 21 , 1998. Two years ago. So which lot is it, Lot A? A. Thayer: Lot A. M. Carey: And you're just extending it back -- A. Thayer, To the end of my line, yes. M. Carey: And nothing else has changed? Page 1 of 12 (T) Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript of Regular Meeting 18 May 2000 A. Thayer, No. M. Carey: We've still got the flagpole there . A. Thayer. Nothing else has changed. What it is is the prospective buyer he finally found some financing instead of paying me every month and he wanted to go back all the way. I have no problem with it. M. Carey: Anybody have any questions for Mr. Thayer? A. Scheffler. wooded area? A. Thayer. It's all woods and brush , yes. She's just trying to protect herself so nothing can go in behind her. And she's got a couple extra dollars and I'd like to have them. G. Van Slyke: Can't blame you there , I guess. M. Carey: Any questions from the rest of the Board? All the lots are conforming. Well , do you want to do the SEAR, George? G. Van Slyke: Do we have to? It was done in '98. M. Carey: Well, according to that meeting we were at last week, on anything anymore we need to do SEQRs. Board Member George Van Slyke then reads aloud Part H of the Short Environmental Assessment Form. Negative responses were obtained to all questions in Part II. Therefore , it was determined by the Planning Board, upon the motion made by Member Scheffier, seconded by Member Talbot, with all members present voting in favor, that the action, based on the information submitted, will not cause any significant adverse environmental impact, resulting in a Negative Declaration. M. Carey: So everybody's looked it over. Are there any more questions for Mr. Thayer? G. Van Slyke : I make the motion that we approve the Boundary Change as proposed, extending Lot A on the tax map to the end line, which would make it 3. 107 acres. B. Clark: I second the motion . M. Carey: All in favor? (All Board members present indicated aye . ) Passed . You're all set. Discussion - Revision of Comprehensive Plan and Land Use & Development Code M. Carey: I think it needs to be noted , the ones of us that attended the training session last Thursday. A. Scheffler: I made a note on the thing in the attendance thing. There's a pink sheet in there. I just wrote everybody's name on it that went . . . M. Carey: April, Barb Clark, George Totman, Van Travis and Monica Carey, G. Van Slyke: That's right. I wasn't there. Hard to be there when you're someplace else . Page 2 of 12 (T) Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript of Regular Meeting 18 May 2000 M. Carey. Do we have any discussion on the meeting? Would anyone like to make any responses? A. Scheffler: I thought she gave us something to think about for the comprehensive planning . To get it started . One of the things -- they had the list of books and booklets and stuff and the ZBA indicated that they wanted to get copies of this Practical Guide to Comprehensive Planning. M. Carey: There was one there that I thought would be interesting for our Board , but I can't remember -- I wrote it down and I think I left it at home. A. Scheffler: If there was something -- if we wanted copies of that and they wanted copies of that , check it out with you guys tonight. I think we're going to order tomorrow. M. Carey: Okay, A. Scheffler: And if there's something else there too . M. Carey: I definitely liked the comprehensive plan that was, you know, the basic with like a magazine type of comprehensive plan. I thought that was quite interesting, showing the graphs and how they'd like to see the towns develop. I kind of liked that. A. Scheffler: The glossy, colored M. Carey: Right. A. Scheffler: And the simple one that M. Carey: Right. And I think that's something we should look at because the way I look at it, it was plain and easy to read and understand so that when people come in they can get an idea how we want to A. Scheffler: Even if you have something like that. Maybe not so glossy and fancy- but something simple like that you could hand out to people rather than had out a big thick -- M. Carey: Right. Because it shows the map of the Town and where all your different districts are. I thought it was quite an interesting little piece of paper, and I think it would be something that we should look into when we do this comprehensive plan . A. Scheffler: We had something that came in the mail the other day, too , that was telling about grants and stuff for Planning Boards that are working on comprehensive plans and things like that. M. Carey: Oh , really? So we might be able to apply for a grant? A. Scheffler: It's something we should look into especially if you think you want to publish something like that to hand out, we might be able to get a little funding for that, I don't know. M. Carey: Plus if we hire someone to help us do some of the planning, we'll need A. Scheffler: Yes, we might want to hire a designer for something like that that you're going to hand out to the public -- a graphic designer or something . M. Carey: Or somebody from the Planning Department to help us. A. Scheffler: That, too. I could look into that more if you want me to to see what we can do. M. Carey: Yes, it would be something that -- Page 3 of 12 ' (T) Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript of Regular Meeting 18 May 2000 A. Scheffler: I'm surprised we didn't all get that at home . It was from the Planning Department or something. M. Carey: Federation? A. Scheffler: I know Mark got one. M. Carey: Yes, I think we should order this for all of our Board members, the Practical Guide to Comprehensive Planning. A. Scheffler: Is there anything else there that you thought? M. Carey: I was thinking the Rural Development Guideline, Hamlet Design and Building Form Guidelines. That might be something. Maybe order one or two of those that everybody could take a look at. A. Scheffler: Yes. I'll mark that one . M. Carey: Because I think that would show us some different designs on how maybe they set up that comprehensive plan that I felt was quite interesting. A. Scheffler. Well, we've got -- we're working with rural and hamlet. A lot of things you see are for cities and, you know -- M. Carey: Right, And when I see the Rural Development Guideline , I think that would be something that we may want to look into . A. Scheffler: Yes. I don't know if this one was the water thing -- would be something M. Carey: We really don't have that many wetlands in the Town of Groton. A. Scheffler. No , but we have to deal with the watersheds and I don't know M. Carey: Yes, we're starting to, right. Cayuga and Owasco. A. Scheffler, For three dollars it might be worth it to get at least one copy. M. Carey: Right. Probably wouldn't hurt. Does our Town Board member approve all that? A. Scheffler: We already have this in our budget and the ZBA has it in their budget. Each of the Boards has a little bit in their budget to order things like that. M. Carey: Okay, A. Scheffler: I'll get that ordered tomorrow probably. M. Carey: All right. A. Scheffler. I have some stuff from the State that they had sent. I haven't had much of a chance to look at it either. I don't know if we have this - - M. Carey: We should . We've had them handed out before. I don't know if Brenda and Barbara has them. Barbara, do you have them? Did you get those in your packet? G. Van Slyke: What is it? M. Carey: It's on zoning and the comprehensive plan . We've had them. Page 4 of 12 ' (T) Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript of Regular Meeting 18 May 2000 A. Scheffler: I can make more copies if anybody wants them . M. Carey: I think mine's probably at home . A. Scheffler: There's a sample survey and a comprehensive plan for the Town of Ripley and the Village of Chatham . She has this book. I kind of like the way that one's set up too. So if anybody wants to look at them. I kind of like the way this one's set up with little black and white pictures. M. Carey: I think pictures tell a lot, you know. A. Scheffler: This is something they handed out at the municipal officials the other night. This is something that the Town of Ithaca's put together for park recreational spaces. It's kind of nice . M. Carey: Nice and colorful. A. Scheffler: Yes. Similar to the things they had at that meeting . And this has to do with their . . . conservation. Just thought I'd -- interesting. M. Carey: Does anybody else have anything they want to discuss? A. Scheffler: I have a couple extra things here. Not to do with this - - if you want to finish this I'll wait until you get done with discussion. M. Carey: I guess nobody has anything they want to discuss. Okay. OTHER BUSINESS TO COME BEFORE THE BOARD David J. DuMont, RO/Walpole Real Estate , Applicant - 813 Lick Street. - TMs # 20- 1 -44 & 2 . 211 A. Scheffler: Bob Walpole came in with two different projects. I'll pass these out. M. Carey: Did he come in today with that? Because I just got my Agenda. A. Scheffler: Yes, it was after the Agenda. M. Carey: Okay, G. Van Slyke: What are you doing with these? Passing them out? A. Scheffler: One's for Joan for reference. What he's doing is -- if you look at the map -- he's got -- DuMont owns these two parcels that are marked in yellow. He's selling the shaded parcel which is a little bit over an acre. And Bob came in -- actually came in Friday and threw it on the counter and said, "I want a letter from the Town that I don't have to have any approval for this. " And he got kind of huffy when we tried to ask him exactly what he's doing. He said, "Well, we're going to sell this lot and then we're going to take what's left and put it on the other lot. " And I said well, that was a Boundary Change . And he said, No, no , it's not a Boundary Change and we can do this . We don't need any approval . " When we tried to get out of him exactly what he was doing, and at one point he said he was doing it just for tax purposes which you can combine two lots for tax purposes, but it still remains two lots. M. Carey: We better do a Boundary Change. A. Scheffler: So what -- in my mind he's either creating a flag lot there or he's doing a Boundary Change, Page 5 of 12 ' (T) Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript of Regular Meeting 18 May 2000 M. Carey: Yes, that needs to be clarified . Also, is this 44 one, has that already been subdivided off? Because then the shaded lot would be the second subdivision in that piece of property. A. Scheffler: Good question . I don't know. M. Carey: So we really can't do anything until we find out if this one has already been subdivided off. A. Scheffler: The 44, yes. M. Carey: And if he's asking for a Boundary Change , and I assume it has been. And then if he's selling another lot off from there, then that calls for a subdivision. A. Scheffler: Today when he brought it in he made the comment, "Well, we don' t have to do anything with that flag lot until we develop it. We don't need any approval unless we're going to put a house on that flag lot. " Which I didn't argue with him, but I don't think that's right. I mean , he's creating a flag lot. M. Carey: We need to know the dimensions of this lot that he wants - - PA. Scheffler: I have a - - M. Carey: So that we know the number of feet for the flag. A. Scheffler: Yes, they're leaving 25 feet there . But -- I'll look on the other map because it's kind of hard to see what they're doing here. This is the lot. The big long lot. Which is here . This is the lot they're taking off it. They're leaving 24 foot right here. M. Carey: The problem is we don't know if this is a Boundary Change . Then this will be the second parcel sold out of that lot. I don't know how we can do anything until we find out a little more on that. I mean, what's the rest of the Board feel? B. Clark: Well, if they sold one already, they'd have to subdivide it. M. Carey: Right. You can sell one lot off a parcel. Then after that it requires a subdivision . A. Scheffler: I think these were taken off someplace a long time ago, but I don't -- M. Carey: Right. Well, it depends on how far back those go whether that would even work into this. But they're already talking here's a lot here, and if he wants to make a Boundary Change then we've already approved something here on this property. A. Scheffler: Yes, M. Carey: Am I thinking right here? A. Scheffler: Well, I'd say he's creating a flag lot. M. Carey: Right. Well he's creating a flag lot and whether he needs a subdivision approval for this lot here to be sold off -- do we have any record on this parcel whether these were all subdivided off a long time ago? A. Scheffler: We need to look in the subdivision file. I haven't done that because I didn't think it pertained. But we probably should . G. Van Slyke: So these are two separate lots here , but he owns both of them? A. Scheffler: Two separate lots . He owns both of them. Page 6 of 12 (T) Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript of Regular Meeting 18 May 2000 M. Carey: At one time he must have intended to sell this lot and just never sold it. These front ones almost have sold, right? The ones along Clark Street? A. Scheffler: I think his wife has -- his ex-wife has one or two of them. G. Van Slyke : They've got tax numbers, so they got to be off. A. Scheffler: I think it was a divorce settlement thing there at one point. I don't know how long ago . But when I went back and read the thing on flag lots, it also said they have to be extenuating circumstances too . I mean , no other way to divide it up , basically. And if he owns -- I mean if he owns all of this -- M. Carey: Yes, but if he's taking the boundary out, there won't be a flag lot there. G. Van Slyke: That's right. If he's selling this and he's adding this to this parcel -- is that what he's asking for -- that's a boundary change isn't it? What the heck did he come in for? A. Scheffler: Have you ever discussed anything with Bob? G. Van Slyke: Did he say it was a Boundary Change? Yes, he did. He's calling it a Boundary Change, A. Scheffler: I called it a Boundary Change . He called it an assessment change . M. Carey: Selling mobile home with one acre. Adding balance of property to my tax map . A. Scheffler: But he got upset when I questioned him, so -- M. Carey: He wasn't going to be here tonight? A. Scheffler: No, he can't be here tonight. He had another meeting, but he said he would be home about quarter after eight if you wanted to call him and ask questions. M. Carey: I think we need to look into this and find out when these other lots were -- if there was a subdivision. G. Van Slyke: See that's the thing you don't know. Was this all one parcel? And then it was subdivided. That would have been more than - - that would have been a major. One, two , three, four, five , six. That would have been a major subdivision if that was the case . M. Carey: Or else this was one whole one and they've been in to subdivide that at some time . Obviously, if they want a Boundary Change on this, this was subdivided . A. Scheffler: There's nothing there in the file under DuMont, but -- unless it was under a different name. M. Carey: I think we need to know more information . At least that' s my personal opinion . I don't know about the rest of the Board. A. Scheffler: Well, he's bound and determined that he doesn't need any kind of approval at all . My position is that he's doing one or the other, but he doesn't want to do either. M. Carey: But according to all your maps, this was already parceled out, right? This long, narrow lot. A. Scheffler: Oh, the long, narrow lot, yes. That's on the tax map like that. Yes. Page 7 of 12 (T) Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript of Regular Meeting 18 May 2000 M. Carey: So that would indicate to me that that's already been divided off, even though he wants to make it one -- we can do a Boundary Change, but I think we need to find out more about this other lot and look into it more . Because you're thinking he wants a flag lot off from it. A. Scheffler: Well that's the way I understood it. And today he said "It's not a Boundary Change . We're simply going to go to the Assessment Office and they're going to put it in one parcel for the bill. " For the tax bill. So that leaves two lots of record if you combine it for taxes; there's still two lots of record. In that case, he has a flag lot which he explained to me that he did not need to have an approval for unless they were going to build there. M. Carey: A flag lot comes before our Board. A. Scheffler: Which I didn't argue with him. M. Carey: What do you think, George? G. Van Slyke : I'm trying to figure out what he's got here . M. Carey: I know. G. Van Slyke: I can't even find two one . He supposedly owns this too. A. Scheffler: That's the white . We're talking about -- that's David DuMont. That says Rita there , doesn't it? G. Van Slyke: This says Rita. This says Rita. I don't think this guy owns anything. A. Scheffler: It does, doesn't it. G. Van Slyke: We don't know what part he has, if he even has the right to do anything with that. It looks like it's all under her name . A. Scheffler: I didn't even notice that because he was saying it was David DuMont, G. Van Slyke: Yes, it's David that's making the -- now he's calling it lands of David DuMont, See, I've lost myself here . Supposedly, this is what he's going to sell. But it doesn't even say how far back he's going to sell it. It's the mobile home sitting way back here, right? Here's the gravel drive. We're looking at the gravel drive here and the mobile home . M. Carey: Well which part is he thinking of selling? G. Van Slyke: He's going to sell the mobile home part here, I guess. A. Scheffler: This whole thing. G. Van Slyke: Oh , that whole thing . A. Scheffler: You got two different scales here. See this survey stake here and that stake here . G. Van Slyke : So he's going to come back that far -- A. Scheffler: He's going to come back about here by the looks of it, and square this off and leave 24 feet along this edge . M. Carey: We don't even really know what he's talking about. I really don't think that we can do anything with this until we get more definite -- a better map and a better understanding of what they want to do here with this property. Page 8 of 12 (T) Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript of Regular Meeting IS May 2000 G. Van Slyke: I make the motion we table this until the next meeting and he could come in and explain to us what he's doing. B. Clark: I second the motion . M. Carey: All in favor? (All Board members present indicated aye.) A. Scheffler: Do you want to send a letter to him? G. Van Slyke: He wasn't on the Agenda tonight. It's just like it comes in and there's no explanation. I don't think we owe him a letter. If he's on the Agenda, then we can -- if he were on the Agenda and we were delaying it, I would say so. But he's not on the Agenda and it's just something he came in with . J. Fitch: Who is the owner of 20- 1 -44? G. Van Slyke: We can't figure that out. M. Gunn: Dave DuMont, G. Van Slyke: Okay, so this map we've got here , the big one , has nothing to do with this. A. Scheffler: Yes. It's that lot but it has David's name on it. M. Carey: Well, we need to know exactly what he needs to do here and if we're going to create a flag lot or not too. So I think we should just put him on the Agenda for next month . A. Scheffler: I will make you aware that he instructed me that we should just adjourn and have a Special Meeting to take care of this so we don't hold him up . M. Carey: Well, I just think we need more facts on it. B. Clark: If he was in a hurry, it seems like he would have been here to give us the facts . G. Van Slyke: He would have been on the Agenda if he was in a hurry to get it done . A. Scheffler: Well, he's bound and determined that he doesn't have to do anything. M. Carey: We haven't got enough information to go on . Carl & Gladys Francis, RN Walpole Real Estate , Applicant - Old Stage Road - TM # 20- 1 - 41 A. Scheffler: And this is his next project. This is on Old Stage Road up past Lockwood's. You know where Lockwood's is? Two guys are buying this 24-acre parcel. One guy's going to build here . One guy's going to build here . And they're going to own this one jointly as a buffer zone between them and Lockwood's. Approximately 8-acre parcels each . You talked to one of those guys tonight, right? M. Gunn: Yes, A. Scheffler: So you can talk to them know. M. Gunn: Mr. Walpole's client called me and I'm going over what she handed me today and I told her, I said before you guys can do anything, you've got to come in and get an application, pay the fee, and put in for a rural subdivision. And he was okay with that. I'm sure Bob's not going to be okay with that. But he was fine -- I've never done this before -- J. Fitch: Who is he? Page 9 of 12 (T) Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript of Regular Meeting 18 May 2000 A. Scheffler: I don't think we have any names. M. Gunn: He told me his name. A. Scheffler: Francis? M. Carey: Francis, B. Clark: Is that first name or last name? A. Scheffler: I have no idea. It's just what Bob's got on here . J. Fitch: Tax Map 20- 1 -4. A. Scheffler: Did I give you one? J. Fitch: Yes, but I like to put a heading in the Minutes with the owner of the property. A. Scheffler: We don't know . G. Van Slyke: Are they buying it from Francis, or does Francis M. Carey: Who owns the property, I wonder, to begin with? A. Scheffler: Don't know. M. Carey: Have we subdivided this land before? Because why are all these lines drawn through it already. A. Scheffler. That's what they're proposing. M. Gunn: And there again, I think Bob ought to be stopped for doing this sort of thing because they're getting easements and everything else and agreeing with each other that they can share a driveway for the next 35 years, and I said whoa, whoa, whoa. I said first of all you're taking one large lot and making three lots. You've got to put the application in and go before the Planning Board before you guys can even start subdividing it. There's a preliminary sketch plat here that the Planning Board can go by, but they can't approve anything because you haven't applied for anything. And like I said, the soon-to-be landowner which I'm sorry I've forgot the guy's name, he's fine with that and he said he would be down either tomorrow or the beginning of next week and put the application in . M. Carey: Which side of the road is this on Old Stage as you go towards -- A. Scheffler: Going towards Cortland I think it's on the right-hand side . M. Gunn: The old gravel pit. G. Van Slyke : Is it the old gravel pit? M. Carey: Well, didn't we subdivide that ofP? M. Gunn: I think it is. That's where I'm getting the gist of it. A. Scheffler: Did you .look it up or no? M. Gunn: It's owned by Carl Francis right now. G. Van Slyke: Why is this chunk taken out of it too? Page 10 of 12 (T) Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript of Regular Meeting 18 May 2000 M. Carey: I know. A. Scheffler: That's the one - - whoever owns across the road. That number ten, because it has the little arrow that goes across. M. Gunn: That's what threw me for a loop and I told him he had to come in . He has to come in anyways, but he tried to explain to me , but if they're doing a 500-foot long driveway that's going to go between his and his buddy's lot, I don't see how they're going to do that because there's a chunk taken out of the middle of it. G. Van Slyke: Which ones are they going to -- M. Gunn: They're going to build here, here, and then that's the buffer between the next properties. G. Van Slyke : Wait a minute . If that's the right-hand of the road heading towards Cortland, that isn't Lockwood's there . A. Scheffler. Lockwood's are down here, aren't they? If you're looking at your map - - G. Van Slyke: That's got to be - - A. Scheffler. Lockwood's is down this way. G. Van Slyke: Fish . That's got to be Fish . Paul Fish's son. It's got to be this piece of property. He's got the heart-shaped lakes down in back and all that. A. Scheffler. The forty point six you mean? G. Van Slyke : Well, I'm assuming. If this is a gravel bed M. Carey: Gosh, I don't even know if I know where it is that well. M. Gunn: Yes, no disrespect to Bob Walpole , but I think that he ought to have a letter sent saying enough is enough . He's got to do the paperwork and get on the Agenda with all the proper things in hand before he comes in demanding anything from the Deputy Clerk. A. Scheffler: Well, his statement was on this was that he wanted us to know what was going on and he wanted the Code Enforcement Officer to be aware in case they came in for a Building Permit, Which , I mean, he can't issue without a - - M. Carey: Well, I don't know how the rest of the Board feels about this -- G. Van Slyke: Well, I'm going to make the same motion I made before . I mean there's nothing we can do about this until we get more particulars. So I move that we table it until the next meeting. If he can come in with his ducks in a row, we'll look it over. But if he doesn't get his ducks in a row, we'll wait. M. Carey: Because I have no idea where this is. I have a general idea, but - - J. Pitch: So you're tabling any action until the applicant can be present? M. Carey: Right. G. Van Slyke: That sounds like the legal tern. M. Carey: Second it? Page 11 of 12 (T) Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript of Regular Meeting 18 May 2000 B. Clark: I'll second it. M. Carey: All in favor? (All Board members present indicated aye .) Well, this is interesting. Unknown Prospective Applicant A. Scheffler: I also had another person come in who I thought was going to be on the Agenda, but decided not to. I'll explain the situation and see what you think about it. They had approval for a Boundary Change in 1996 and the people that were going to buy this other piece couldn't come up with the money so they never filed it. Now they have somebody that wants it and they came in and said can we just go file this now? And I said well, I think that technically it expired after 180 days . M. Carey: They need to re-apply. G. Van Slyke: They do have to re-apply. A. Scheffler: Okay, G. Van Slyke: They've extended the time limit. A. Scheffler: Re-apply, pay the fee, come in -- okay. That's what I felt too, but I wanted to make sure that's how everybody else felt. Okay. Adjournment M. Carey: Any other business? Anybody want to make the motion to adjourn? B. Talbot: I make the motion we adjourn. B. Clark: I'll second? M. Carey: All in favor? (All Board members present indicated aye.) The meeting was adjourned at 8 * 15 p .m. Ze X1 boa E . Fitch R ording Secretary (NOTE : On 5/ 19, the Board Secretary filed, via fax to the Groton Town Clerk's Office, the actions that were taken at this meeting.) 6/s/oo Page 12 of 12