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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2000-01-20 r t TOWN OF GROTON PLANNING BOARD Meeting Minutes/Transcript - Thursday. 20 January 2000 Members , Groton Planning Board (*Absent) Others Present George Totman, Chairman Joan Fitch , Recording Secretary Monica Carey Glen Morey, Town Supervisor *George Van Slyke Mark Gunn, Town CEO Van Travis Chas. & Nancy Peacock, Applicants Barbara Clark April Scheffler Brenda Talbot The meeting was called to order at 7 * 35 p.m. by Chairman George Totman. G. Totman: Okay. I have to explain something tonight to our visitors. Our original Agenda didn't have anything on it because we didn't have any requests for this or that or anything . We're calling the meeting to order; the machine is on, so everything is being recorded. We have three completely new Board members tonight who have never been here before, so I just want to explain that so it will be a little bit different than our normal Board meeting than if they've been for a year or two or three or four years. Our original intent was tonight was to have , because we didn't have anything on the Agenda, is just to get together and get acquainted and talk things over and show everybody what the operations were , and stuff like that. Charles & Nancy Peacock, Applicants/David & Joseph Bail, ROs - 2 McLean Road (Elm Tree Inn Site - TM # 38- 5- 10 G. Totman: April called me yesterday for the Board members and said that yesterday the Peacocks came in and brought in their -- normally, excuse me, but normally we tell everybody that they have to apply ten days before our meeting . And that would be like last week. But because of the current events that people have been reading about in the paper, and past activities at the Elm Tree, I thought it would be very appropriate if we let them come in tonight to explain what their operations were, and take it from there. It would help their process along; otherwise , we only meet once a month . And so I didn't check with the other Planning Board members to do that, but I didn't think anybody would object. So I just wanted to make sure you understand where we're coming from. You just got the Agenda tonight, and the application for the Elm Tree , What I'd like to do, if it's possible, is to instead of going through approving the Minutes and the regular meeting, have you people read up on what they're proposing. Maybe take five Minutes and let everybody read what you're proposing to do. April's already read it. I said due to past experiences, but this one is completely different and we're told exactly what you're going to be doing, and what kind of a business it is. (Note : A Business Plan, dated 1 December 1999, was submitted to the Board by Charles Jr. and Nancy Peacock, and accompanied their "Application for Site Plan Review/ Special Permit, " along with a portion of a survey map and tax map depicting the property, and a completed Short EAR ) We've got to go through this step by step. Like I said earlier, we have three new Board members. There are six of us here; three have never been here before . So you have to bear with us. V. Travis: George, before we go further, I think I owe it to the Peacocks to let you know that I'm your next door neighbor, Patchwork & Pies, and I am not going to recuse myself from the proceedings here , but I will abstain from voting and will not make motions with regard to the issue at hand. G. Totman: So, does anybody have any questions? V. Travis: My understanding, from what I have read -- it's a very nice Business Plan -- you personally are going to operate -- Page 1 of 14 r Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting Minutes/Transcript 20 January 2000 N. Peacock: Yes. V. Travis: It's not going to be operated by an absentee manager or something like that. You will be personally involved in it? N. Peacock: Totally, C. Peacock: Totally, V. Travis: You are planning a luncheon menu and, which I will say, we have a high degree of interest in at our business. We don't operate evenings, but people come from Canada to the Pennsylvania border to our shop and need a place to eat which, of course , has never existed. And I guess you know we have a pie business and a cup of coffee , but we are not a restaurant by any stretch of the imagination. N. Peacock: We'll send them to your place for dessert. V. Travis: I think we can work that out. G. Totman : Monica? M. Carey: Well, I think this is a very good idea after what we've been through , and I guess my one thought is what kind of entertainment? Are you thinking anything in the bar area for entertainment? C. Peacock: I don' t think there's ever going to be a band. All it is is just we want it for a good eating place actually. N. Peacock: More of a service-type bar for diners. Now I'm sure we will have some regular people that stop on their way home . We may have an occasion where someone has a private party that they would have a DJ . But for us to -- I know years ago they used to have a band or a dinner or something . We don't anticipate anything like that. M. Carey: And this reception hall that you're going to have upstairs, there could possibly be bands? N. Peacock: I wouldn't say a band because I don't think the area will be big enough . We don't, we plan to put in our apartment and then have not a reception room, but a -- C. Peacock: Just a little conference room where -- N. Peacock: An area where you could have 75 or so people, but you wouldn't be able to accommodate a band. G. Totman: Well, if you were doing a wedding reception, they might bring a band in with them. N. Peacock: I would rather not have a band; I would rather have a DJ sort of thing. We can certainly regulate that. I don't think there's room. And we really don't want to get into the loud music . G. Totman : Their stated hours, different than usual at that establishment, are they are planning on closing at 11 o'clock at night. N. Peacock: There are plenty of places where people can go and have a band. And we would like to keep this as low key as we can, and cater more to dinners and lunches and private party type things. V. Travis: You're planning on living on the premises then? Did I interpret what you said correctly? Page 2 of 14 f Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting Minutes/Transcript 20 January 2000 N. Peacock: We are if we can get all of our permits and codes and have everything approved. G. Totman : Yes, I might say that in the fall I talked to Nancy on the phone a few times. I explained to her what the NYS Building Codes were and how she might have to get a variance or whatever. In fact, I think I gave her the names of the people she would have to call to get a variance for that type of thing above the bar. So I think she's well aware of that. Anybody else? B. Talbot: Have you ever done any of this before? N. Peacock: We have never owned a restaurant; my husband owned a small tavern years ago , probably about 25 years ago, with his brother. I've done catering in South Carolina for probably the last nine years. But as far as owning a restaurant, no we haven't. G. Totman : Can I tell the people, for the ones that don't know -- I know Barbara knows, but you are originally from Groton . And her mother and father live here in Groton. And Charlie's from Cortland. V. Travis: My wife is a native of McLean and I don't know that she knows your family, but she knows the family name . N. Peacock: There are a lot of them. V. Travis: Yes, yes. G. Totman: You got any questions? N. Peacock: We certainly have all of their interests in mind too . To make sure everything goes well. M. Carey: Well, I don't think we have to worry about parking here. You've got a good-sized parking lot. And you have things well lit in the parking lot. N. Peacock: Yes, G. Totman : Well, does anybody else have any questions about parking or any of that? M. Carey: No, the hours of operation are stated in their paperwork here, and I believe they've got ample parking out there. It will be a well-lit area, and a family restaurant. A. Scheffler. I think Mark had some concerns about the Code requirements. I don't know if he wanted to address those tonight. G. Totman: Well, they would have to be addressed anyway. We can okay the operation, but the Code requirements are not part of the Planning Board's problem. They already know they've got to meet the State Codes. Mark can talk -- I don't want to shut him up or anything. But they are well aware that before they can operate they've got to meet all the NYS Building Codes. I'm quite clear of that. I made that quite clear. C. Peacock: We know that. G. Totman: Not to shut Mark up , but we can approve it and then they deal with him on the codes. A. Scheffler: Just wanted to make sure they were aware of that. G. Totman: Oh , I think they are . A. Scheffler, Okay, Page 3 of 14 r t Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting Minutes/Transcript 20 January 2000 C. Peacock: It's been a long ordeal. G. Totman : Okay. Well, what the procedure is from here, if nobody else has got any questions, normally what happens is if the Planning Board has exhausted their questions and they feel that there's no other problems from their standpoint on a new business and one that's different than what's happened in the past in the building, we have to have a Public Hearing. And I think you understand that. And so we can set the Public Hearing up for the February meeting which would be the 17th , and we'll advertise it as such. Hopefully, you could be here to explain. And when we have the Public Hearing, we'll have it out in the Courtroom. A. Scheffler. They are having court on Thursday nights now. G. Totman: They are? A. Scheffler: They've been holding court on Thursday. G. Totman: Okay, V. Travis: Is there another meeting room here that would be G. Totman : No. Darn it. M. Carey: You may have some of the McLean people come . V. Travis: Can we change our meeting date? It would not be unreasonable to expect that there would be some people who would attend. G. Totman: People are very interested. N. Peacock: Yes, I realize that. G. Totman: Well, normally our meeting would be -- how about on the loth of February? No, that will still be Thursday night though , wouldn't it? When does Arland hold his court? A. Scheffler. Wednesday, G. Totman: Yes, but he holds it in the morning. A. Scheffler, And evening. G. Totman: At night - - he has it on Wednesdays, so that kills that. We never ran into this before. M. Carey: I know, A. Scheffler: The Town Board meeting is the 8th. G. Totman : Wednesdays and Thursdays are out. V. Travis: And we're scheduled for the 17th, normally. M. Carey: Is there some time at the end of this month? G. Totman: We can hold a special one . M. Carey: Go for it. V. Travis: Yes. Page 4 of 14 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting Minutes/Transcript 20 January 2000 M. Carey: When's ten days? A. Scheffler. Is it ten days for advertising or five? G. Totman: I think it's five . Today's the 20th . So Wednesday and Thursday nights are out then . A. Scheffler. Unless he has some nights he's not going to have court. But as I understand it, it's going to be every Thursday. M. Carey: Well, you just talk to him, George, and tell him he's not having court on the 17th . G. Totman: I just left him, and I'm not going to get involved with that. I had supper with him tonight. How about the first of February? M. Carey: What day's that? G. Totman: Tuesday. That's about ten days from now. That gives you time to advertise it. We can do it as a special meeting, not as a regular meeting. M. Carey: At 7: 30? G. Totman : Is that all right with everybody? B. Clark: Nancy, are you going to keep the name the same, the Elm Tree Inn? N. Peacock: Yes. J. Fitch: Do you want me to be here , George? G. Totman: Yes, please. Are you set on that? J. Fitch: It's okay with my schedule. G. Totman: No, the name . Are you set on the name? C. Peacock: We're definitely leaving it the same. G. Totman : Okay. Because it's not an inn. N. Peacock: We know that. The Elm Tree . G. Totman: The only reason I say that is because when I bought it, and it was after the fire and you've seen the upstairs, you see how it is -- I decided it was not going to be an inn, so I called it -- in early years, back in the 1800s, it was called The Elm Tree House. So that's what we called it while we owned it. Because it was not an inn when we bought it. Just a matter of history. V. Travis: A lot of people just call it The Tree. G. Totman : So 7 : 30 on the 1st of February we'll have a Public Hearing . And after that we'll do our thing. Is that agreeable with everybody? Before we make a motion, I just want to make sure if there's anybody else that's got any questions at all as to why we shouldn't approve this if, unless -- see, at a Public Hearing the normal procedure with a Board like this is that you actually approve the request, but then, in a lot of cases, you can request a public hearing or not have a public hearing. But because the place has been vacant for awhile, and it's a change of business, it's very normal to hold a public hearing. But normally, a public hearing is letting the public know that the Planning Board has gone over the details and they agree with the operation . And unless the public comes up with something real, real strong against, or whatever, they've got to come up with something -- because it's in the Page 5 of 14 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting Minutes/Transcript 20 January 2000 Ordinance that it says it's okay. And a lot of people don't realize that they can come to a public hearing and screech and holler and complain about something, and they'll get turned down . But they've got to have a reason to show why it gets turned down if it's approved by what the Ordinance says. And I think a lot of people get misled on that. I know we had , just for an example, and I don't think there's anybody here that was on the Board when we had a Public Hearing for a bar and restaurant on the corner of 222 and the Salt Road . M. Carey. I was. G. Totman : Yes, okay - -you were there . And we had over a hundred people show up . And they had a petition out and probably 90 out of the 100 there were against it. And we passed it. Because they were only against it because they just didn't want a bar in the area. I knew from my own heart that the people that were applying for it would never be able to get finances for the way it was, but you couldn't say that publicly, and you couldn't do it up front. And it never came to reality. But the arguments that the people had were not valid . The fact is, a lot of the signatures on the petition were not even from the area; they were from McGraw and Trumansburg and all over the place. The only reason I explained that is if you had ever been involved with this type of thing before, there will be some people that come that just don't want a bar there anymore, and this sort of thing. But the Ordinance says what you're applying for is a legal thing. And so unless somebody comes up with something that shows are Ordinance is wrong, which to me is doubtful , as you're sitting there and listening to that , you've got to bear that in mind . Do the rest of you understand it that way? Okay. C. Peacock: We understand . N. Peacock: Thank you all very much . G. Totman: Thank you . (Secretary's Note : The meeting proceeded with the Approval of the Minutes. However, after this was done , the Chair re -visited the Peacock application for a Site Plan Review. In the interest of clarity, the conversation regarding this matter is being inserted here .) G. Totman: Maybe we should have a motion to tentatively approve what was presented to us tonight and set a Public Hearing up for February 1st. M. Carey: I'll make the motion that we approve what the Peacock's gave us for a Site Plan Review and that we're going to hold a Public Hearing on February 1st at 7 : 30 p .m. B. Clark: I second the motion. G. Totman: Thank you . All in favor? (With the exception of Member Travis, who abstained, all Board members present indicated in the affirmative ) M. Carey: Can I bring up something just on the Peacock deal? G. Totman: Yes, M. Carey: I'm just wondering, should the lawyers just kind of go over things. I mean , just to check things because Chatfield is still out there and I don't know if there's anything -- if we don't follow the steps like we did with the Sirens, is it going to get us into some trouble? I'm just thinking in the back of my mind that maybe we should have the lawyers kind of follow through and make sure that we're going step by step on everything. V. Travis: An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure . G. Totman : Whatever you want to do . April asked me yesterday, and my comment to her was is that we've never had a lawyer before and we've passed a lot of public hearings on a lot of things. Page 6 of 14 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting Minutes/Transcript 20 January 2000 M. Carey: Right, but I guess I'm looking at the fact that this was so controversial - - G. Totman: But it was a different situation. M. Carey: It was a different situation , but they were presenting us with a bar and restaurant too . G. Totman: No, no . You passed that knowing full well that they were closed and weren't going to open back up anyway. But when they first opened up, they never applied . M. Carey: Right. But when they applied for the Site Plan Review, it came before us as a bar and restaurant. And this is exactly what these people are doing, and we went through a lot of steps to get where we got with their final decision. And we're not quite going through as many steps this time around, and I'm wondering if we're covering ourselves by not covering the steps as close as we did the first time. V. Travis: What I think you're saying, and I feel -- the questions are procedural. That is, have we followed the procedures so that we don' t have someone showing up, either at the Hearing or later, and saying, hey, you know, you skipped something. We're then going to challenge this and have your decision voided which probably means you go back through the process again . Because, obviously, it's an approved use, assuming they do what they said . G. Totman: Okay, I'll agree with whatever you want to do . But are you saying that every time we get a Site Plan Review we've got to get a lawyer? M. Carey: No, I'm not saying we should get a lawyer. I'm just saying should we have - - I guess because we were so intense on the last thing, and it's at the Elm Tree, and it's the same place as it was before, and Chatfield, I'm sure, is still watching us pretty darn close on everything we're doing. Even though he lost the Appeal , but A. Scheffler: Well, their statement was they were going to sue us whether they lost or won . So they're going to be looking to see what we do. M. Carey: Right. That's my only problem, because we went step by step in the book. A. Scheffler: They could say that you stalled , or you spent a lot of time until they didn't have any money left so they couldn't go back in business, and these guys you're pushing right through . They could have a basis for a lawsuit. V. Travis: I don't feel, George, that we're setting a precedent for each and every request for Site Plan Review that comes through here . But, to say the least, the last review involving the Elm Tree Inn was an extremely sensitive one. We know that the risk for litigation exists, and the best time to involve your attorney is at the start, not after we've stubbed our toe and then have to go to hammer her or whoever it is and ask them to bail us out. I think it's nothing more than initially sharing the Minutes of this meeting with the attorney and saying here's what we've done , here's where we're going. Are we fine so far? And do you have any advice with respect to our actions from this point out? M. Carey: Does that seem reasonable , George? G. Totman: Whatever the Board wants. It's the consensus of the Board . I just want to make sure that we don't set ourselves up so that every time we have a Site Plan Review we have to spend the Town's money and have the attorneys get involved . Because we've never done it in the past. M. Carey: No. G. Totman : Because I know of another restaurant that's coming up for Site Plan Review. It's a different situation because they're in business. The business is not going to close ; it's going to keep Page 7 of 14 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting Minutes/Transcript 20 January 2000 going under a new owner which is a completely different type thing. But I just want to make sure that we understand that. M. Carey: Well, I think, like Van said, just have the lawyer look over the Minutes . G. Totman: I would have nothing against sending a copy of this to the Town Attorney and have him read the Minutes of this meeting and what we said to the people and asking him what's illegal about what we did. But I don' t want us to drag through four, five, or six months like we did before. That's what he likes to do. Sorry about that. M. Carey: That's not what I 'm saying. I just want to make sure that legally we're not B. Clark: We should have an answer back from the lawyer by the time we have our public meeting. G. Totman: If we don't, that's up to him. If we give it to him this week, and a public hearing is scheduled for then, then he should -- if he sees something wrong, then he should let us know. Okay. A. Scheffler: But you won't have the Minutes then . G. Totman : We might be able to get a copy of that page of the Minutes before then , if I sweet talk Joan . J. Pitch: I've done it before . G. Totman : Okay. And like I said before, I really did have some long, serious talks with these people in the fall about what they had to do, about meeting building codes, and what to do for the upstairs. There's nothing I could tell them about what they could or could not do because there's certain things that are in the State Building Code that says you can and cannot do things. And if they want to do something that's not possible by the local Code Enforcement Officer, then they've got to get variances. And they know that. And I think they indicated that they did . M. Carey: Right. And just from what they've written in here I don't think this is going to be some wild bar or type of thing. They want to keep it family style -- G. Totman : That's exactly what they told me from the beginning. M. Carey: And the way the whole pamphlet reads that they gave us, it just looks like it's pretty straightlaced and it's going to be a family style . G. Totman: So it's what we haven' t had before in essence. The other bar that I was talking about, for everybody's information, is operating today and has operated for the last 50 years that I know of. It's going to be sold and new owners are just going to take over immediately. Like what used to happen to the Elm Tree over the years . And what I did tell them was because of all the activities that have been going on for the last two or three years here in Groton, that the place that's running right now didn't get a Site Plan Review because they were there for years and years and years. So now they should come in and submit their plan, similar to what they did here, as to what they're going to be doing, and they're going to operate exactly the way it's been operating before, or if it's going to be different, let us know. And then we'll take it from there . But by the nature of that, it shouldn't be a long, drawn out thing because - - M. Carey: No, because that place won't sit vacant like the Elm Tree, G. Totman : No, it's not going to sit vacant at all. In fact, if they didn't come in and tell him, unless you read the papers, you wouldn't even know it was different. M. Carey: Right, Page 8 of 14 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting Minutes/Transcript 20 January 2000 G. Totman: So I think that's a completely different thing. M. Carey: Right. Oh , I agree. G. Totman: I'm talking about the Roman Village . Approval of Minutes - November Meeting G. Totman : And now back to the Minutes. Van and I and Monica are the only ones who can really officially approve the Minutes of the meeting because you weren't here . M. Carey: But we don't have a quorum with the three of us. G. Totman : They can vote on it; I've been to meetings before -- you've got a quorum. They don't know if they are right or wrong, but they can say yes, they look good. That's been done before. This is for the November meeting. We didn't have a meeting in December. Monica moved that we approve them as submitted; Van seconded it. All in favor? (All members present indicated they were in favor.) G. Totman : All in favor? (All members present indicated in the affirmative) . Okay. Organizational Matters - Board Meeting Date/Time for 2000 G. Totman: Okay, we're supposed to set up the time and date of our regular meetings. For the last few years, we've always had our meetings at 7:30 on the third Thursday of the month . Does anybody have anything against that? M. Carey: That's fine by me . I'll make that motion . G. Totman: Incidentally, for the benefit of the new members, we're missing one member tonight, George Van Slyke, A. Scheffler. Are you going to leave it at 7 : 30? G. Totman: 7:30, V. Travis: I'll second it. G. Totman : All in favor? (All members present indicated they were in favor.) A. Scheffler: Your first meeting, though , is going to be on the first. G. Totman: That's a special meeting. Other Discussion G. Totman: Usually, every Friday I stop in to see April. Not to see April, but to see if there's anything to be on the Planning Board. Last week when I stopped in, she had nothing, no request for anything, and up until yesterday when she called me and these people had stopped in, normally we tell people that they've got to at least let us know ten days in advance so she can put it on the Agenda and send them out. But I thought to be courteous to these people who've been working on it so long, that since we didn't have anything else on the Agenda tonight, to let them come in . Normally, that's what happens. I stop in to see her and we make up the Agenda. Other than that, we didn't have anything scheduled for tonight, so she says do you want to have a meeting because in December we didn't have a meeting, but it was close to Christmas so we didn't have a meeting. I thought it would be a good idea Page 9 of 14 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting Minutes/Transcript 20 January 2000 if we just had a meeting and get acquainted with each other. Some of us know most everybody, but if you have any questions -- I think everybody but Brenda - - you just got your packages tonight, right? B. Talbot: Right, G. Totman: Did you read all that stuff I told you to? B. Clark: I have it all organized . G. Totman: I gave you most of the stuff from the State that I could collect to tell you what Planning Boards are about, what a lot of the rules and regulations are. Tonight, April supplied you with the Zoning Ordinance and the Mobile Home Ordinance . There's a couple three other ordinances that we've got that she's going to photocopy and see that you get it. But if you have any questions -- and if I was new and involved on a Board and had never been involved with anything like this, I might have questions. M. Carey: Be sure you're wide awake when you start reading. A. Scheffler: I have one question, and it doesn't have anything to do with that. Is your Public Hearing just a Public Hearing, or a special meeting and Public Hearing? G. Totman : A Public Hearing, period. A. Scheffler, Okay. So you're not going to have any decision that night? G. Totman : Well, it's a Special Meeting of the Planning Board and we can make a decision on that Public Hearing. A. Scheffler. Don't you have to state that it's a Special Meeting? That it's a meeting and not just a hearing? G. Totman: Special Meeting and Public Hearing would be okay. A. Scheffler. Okay, V. Travis: But our Agenda will be limited to that particular issue, is that right George? G. Totman: Unless after everything's done somebody wants to ask or question or comes up with something, or whatever. I don't think that will be out of order. If we call it a Special Meeting - - V. Travis: We're not going to accept other requests for Site Plan Review that night. G. Totman: No, nothing else . Nothing else except for Planning Board members to talk to each other about something. No other thing will be brought up that night except for that. I think it's probably more fair to them because whenever you spend that kind of money in buying something, unless there's something legally wrong, or whatever, it's kind of a waste of time and money to prolong it over a month or two or three when you know you're going to pass it in the end anyway . J. Fitch: George, are you still going to have your regular meeting on the 17th? G. Totman : That's correct. Sounds like it's a big task to take on, what they're doing. Because that building is not in the best of shape . B. Talbot: At one time it was when Pat Hayes owned it. Didn't he own it? G. Totman : Yes, B. Talbot: It was beautiful . Page 10 of 14 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting Minutes/Transcript 20 January 2000 V. Travis: But there are more basic problems. They addressed the roof, which -- and they told you what it would cost -- that's a major item right there . And there's the plumbing and heating -- M. Carey: The structure of the front porch . G. Totman: And because of what happened in 1981 , they took the roof supports of that building and made a bandstand out back. And that roof caved like this, and that was when the guy that bought it off from me decided to have some kind of a party out there and he couldn't afford to buy the lumber, so he cut all the roof rafters out. V. Travis: He cut the bottom chord out of the truss rafters -- that piece that goes all the way across the bottom. He cut the center out of it and used it -- G. Totman: He put a bandstand out back. And within a month after that, he not only got closed down by the State Police, but he got closed down by the bank and the person that held the second mortgage -- which was me . And so the bank, because they had the first mortgage , came in and re-built it to support it so when the winter came along it wouldn't cave in. But in the meantime, the roof did some things like this and that didn't help the shingles any. But the bank spent about $4,000 refurbishing that to get it back up so they felt safe with it. It's just a matter of fact, and they know that. From my conversation with them, they're not going into this thing blind. M. Carey: Well, they've got family all around too . G. Totman: I tried to be as much up front with them as I knew how. B. Clark: Well, I think just the fact that Chuck is a contractor, he should be well aware of the physical problems. G. Totman : Anybody else any questions? April's been around and she indirectly knows what we've been doing. And Barb's listened to her husband so she knows. Brenda hasn't been involved . B. Clark: I usually read the Minutes when they come . A. Scheffler: This is on my desk and we don't have a map from them yet and it's been over six months. G. Totman : This is the one we approved for Babel up on the Locke Road. It was a flag lot. He wanted to sell his property to some of his relation or whatever. M. Carey: The one Jim Henry came in on. G. Totman: Yes. On the Locke Road, V. Travis: I must have been absent that meeting. M. Carey: What did Jim Henry find out that day he came in? He had just found something out on that property . Oh , the way we were going to have to make the flag lot because of the way -- the lay of the land in back or something. A. Scheffler: I just had a note on there that I had to have a map for this. And I haven't got anything yet. G. Totman: Our normal procedure is that when they come in like this and they have a plan , when they finally decide how they're going to divide this lot up -- this is the road here, and one person owns all this. They were going to -- where this dotted line is -- one person was going to own this and one person was going to own that. Our normal procedure is, when they have that re-surveyed to show exactly how they were going to do it, we approved the concept. When they bring the survey map in Page 11 of 14 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting Minutes/Transcript 20 January 2000 showing it meets what they showed us, then April's got a stamp that she could put on it that we approved it. And the Chairman of the Planning Board signs it. But they've never come back with their survey map to show that they had it surveyed, so they can't file it. So basically, probably we should send them a letter and tell them that if they don't come in and do that, our decision will be null and void. A. Scheffler: Do you want to give them a time period? G. Totman: Give them 30 days or something like that. A. Scheffler: Do you want that to go to Jim Henry and them, or - - G. Totman: Yes. Well, he came in here representing them, so I think I would send it just to them; send it right to Jim. A. Scheffler: Okay. Do you want your name on it? G. Totman: Glen, you got any words of wisdom for the Board? G. Morey: Not really. A. Scheffler. Do you want your name on the letter? G. Totman : Yes, A. Scheffler: Do you want to look at it before I send it? G. Totman: I 'll stop in tomorrow afternoon. A. Scheffler: Okay, G. Morey: A couple things, though . We're going to have a Board member at every Planning Board and ZBA Board meeting. Not only just to keep in touch , but if there's anything coming back to the Town Board, then everyone knows what's going on. As far as they pay, it's $25 a meeting, up to $300. And don't be afraid to use legal advice . He's on a retainer; we've already paid him for it. And if you do need some advice, fine. I mean I don't want the lawyer here running the meeting, and things like that. But he is there to advise. And that's all he's there for. He's not there to make decisions, but he is there to advise you . Mark's going to be here every month , too . Hopefully, he'll talk once in awhile . But these are avenues for you to use so please take advantage of everything. You can go to schools and I hope everybody can do that. It's very good to go at least a couple of times to learn. G. Totman: It's a requirement. V. Travis: One a year is a requirement. G. Morey: They're great meetings. You get amongst everybody in NYS and you talk about different things happening in towns and villages throughout New York State. It's advantageous for you guys to go. G. Totman : It's a little late for the year for some of the new members. But the meetings in NYC I think are tremendous. You can pick and choose what you want to go to. There's another two and one-half day meeting in the fall . It's usually in the Catskills, and everything for those two and one-half days is related to Planning Boards and Zoning Boards of Appeal. And those some people think are better for just Planning Boards because when they have them in the resort areas, everybody that's there -- like at the Nevele -- when you gather together after for dinner, or in the bar, everyone's talking about the same thing. It's a little bit different in New York. You go to the meetings, but after that you don't see anybody you know and they go other places. In the spring, I think the County organization that Van belongs to -- Page 12 of 14 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting Minutes/Transcript 20 January 2000 V. Travis: I belong to it but I've never -- Glen and I talked about it. I guess I've been reappointed, but they've never contacted me. G. Totman: I'll take care of that. I remember that. They've been having attendance problems. V. Travis: For obvious reasons if they aren't telling the members when they meet. G. Totman: Well, they meet the same night the Town Board meets. That group is working on getting some mini-sessions up on planning and zoning. Either for one evening or on a Saturday. Some of those are pretty good. V. Travis: They've done things on cell towers, water -- when the adult-oriented entertainment businesses was a real hot topic they did a real good session on that. They've done some outstanding things, so you really don't have to travel far and wide -- although the NY meeting is very good and I did notice that the deadline for enrolling/ registering at the reduced rate is the 28th of January, which is next week. Then I think registration goes up $ 10. G. Totman: There are four from the Town of Groton that are going. V. Travis: I don't think I'm going to go this year; I've gone in the past. Do you have a bus going out of here, or is everybody on their own? G. Morey: We're going down through Salina, the Town of Salina near Syracuse . They have two buses going down and I grabbed the last five reservations and they're full. G. Totman: There's another group in Tompkins County that's trying to get something together. I know there's four from Lansing that are going and some from the Town of Ithaca and the Town of Caroline . They're thinking about getting a mini bus to go if somebody else wants to go . I talked to the lady this morning from Syracuse and she said they were full. We missed it this year. Teresa used to handle that all the time and if you want to do that, for years Teresa handled the bus; I did the refreshments. It's just been an automatic thing . Nothing was done this year, and it should be done in August or September when the towns are doing their budgets so it can be put in because it costs money to go down there . The Town of Groton allows up to $600 per person to go to NY. Some towns tell you to submit the bills back to them. Every town does it different. M. Carey: I'd like to make a request. I don't know if you could do it or not, but could we have a copy of the Town Board Minutes of their meetings? G. Morey: Sure you can . M. Carey: We usually get the ZBA Minutes, but it would be kind of nice to know what the Town Board's discussing, especially when we present something to them. If we're not at the meeting, it would be kind of nice to have the Minutes so we can know what's going on in the Town also. G. Totman : April, A. Scheffler. Do you want them mailed to you , or do you want them here at the meeting? G. Totman : They could be mailed with our agendas. G. Morey: The new regulation on roof sizes for outbuildings will J. Fitch: You'll have to speak up so I can get you down here . G. Totman: The Town Board , at their last meeting, voted five to one to approve what we presented to them. And it's going to be at a Public Hearing at the next meeting -- the February meeting. Page 13 of 14 � P Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting Minutes/Transcript 20 January 2000 M. Carey: We never even knew what was going on with the other Town Board; the only thing we knew was when it came back to us. G. Morey: I'm a firm believer in keeping everybody in touch . Colleen hasn't yelled at me yet for all the copies I've made . M. Carey: Keeping all the boards informed would be kind of nice. V. Travis: That would be helpful. G. Totman: Barb , any questions? G. Morey: George, does everybody know everybody around the table? G. Totman : I think they do. Has anybody else got anything? Okay, if no one has anything else, we'll have a motion to adjourn . Adjournment B. Clark: I make a motion we adjourn the meeting B. Talbot: I'll second it. G. Totman : All in favor? (All members present indicated "aye . ") The meeting was adjourned at 8 :31 p.m. Jo . Fitch Recording Secretary Page 14 of 14