Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout1999-10-21 TOWN OF GROTON PLANNING BOARD Meeting Minutes/Transcript - Thursday, 21 October 1999 Members, Groton Planning Board (*Absent) Others Present George Totman, Chairman Joan Fitch , Recording Secretary Monica Carey Theresa Donlick, Applicant Cecil Twigg David Donlick George Van Slyke Randall Todd , Applicant Sheldon Clark Van Travis The meeting was called to order at 7 * 30 p .m. by Chairman George Totman. (Note : The tape recorder malfunctioned and would not record the first half of the meeting; it then started on its own. Therefore, the Minutes begin in the general format, followed by verbatim.) Theresa Donlick, RO - 147 Lick Street - Tax Map # 37- 1 - 1 . 1 Chairman Totman recognized Theresa Donlick who was present requesting Site Plan Review for a proposed bed and breakfast at this location . Mrs. Donlick explained that she proposed to provide lodging and breakfast to travelers, and that she advertises on the Web . She stated that she wished to start with four rooms, and maybe later add one more . Chairman Totman asked if there were any other questions, and Member George VanSlyke brought it to the applicant's attention that Item 8 on Part 1 of the SEAF had been marked to indicate that the proposed action would not comply with existing zoning or other existing land use restrictions. Mrs. Donlick stated this was in error and should have been marked "yes" as it did comply. So noted for the record. Member Van Travis stated that he had visited the site of the proposed bed and breakfast and it appeared to be in keeping with the neighborhood. Board Member George Van Slyke then reads aloud Part II of the Short Environmental Assessment Form, Negative responses were obtained to all questions in Part II. Therefore, it was determined by the Planning Board, upon a motion made by Member Van Travis, seconded by Member Cecil Twigg, with all members present voting in favor, that the action, based on the information submitted, will not cause any significant adverse environmental impact, resulting in a Negative Declaration. With no further discussion, Member George Van Slyke made a motion to allow the applicant to operate a bed and breakfast as requested, that all parking must be onsite , and to waive the requirement for a public hearing. The motion was seconded by Member Van Travis, with all members present voting in favor. Randall Todd - 433 Pleasant Valley Road - TM # 35- i -7 . 1 Chairman Totman recognized Mr. Todd who was present to request approval of a subdivision/ flag lot . He explained that he needed 300 feet of road frontage and that he was purchasing the 3.87± A. property from Arnold Porteus. After the application was made , Mr. Todd stated that he obtained a copy of a map which showed that he did , in fact, have 300 feet of road frontage which would allow two 150- foot lots along the road. He wished to put a trailer for his mother on the subdivided lot, while he resided on the other. Mr. Todd stated that CEO Gunn suggested two lots since he had the required frontage. When the subject of an elder cottage arose, Chairman Totman stated that a trailer was not considered an elder cottage. The division of the lot was thoroughly discussed, as well as a flag lot. Mr. Todd explained that the tax map showed a frontage of 257± feet, but there was actually 300 feet. A discussion was then held on how to get the required two acres for a flag lot, which in turn would make the mother's lot twice as large as the applicant's. He also reported that CEO Gunn had not seen the Page 1 of 6 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting Minutes/Transcript 21 October 1999 survey map which was presented to the Board at this meeting. Member Van Travis stated that he had visited the property. In answer to the Board's question, the applicant stated that there would be separate septic systems for each homesite , but water would be provided to both lots from one well. Board Member George Van Slyke then reads aloud Part II of the Short Environmental Assessment Form. Negative responses were obtained to all questions in Part H. Therefore, it was determined by the Planning Board, upon a motion made by Member Monica Carey, seconded by Member Cecil Twigg, with all members present voting in favor, that the action, based on the information submitted, will not cause any significant adverse environmental impact, resulting in a Negative Declaration. G. Totman: Carried . What we're approving is the request that he made -- the writing that he gave us on the map shows that he's got approximately 2. 87 acres in the flag lot and the rest remaining in the regular lot with a 50-foot flag pole . Any other questions? Do you want to make a motion? V. Travis: I move that we approve the requested flag lot with a minimum of two acres and a flag pole of 50 feet, as proposed, and waive the requirement for a public hearing. . S. Clark: I'll second it. G. Totman : All in favor? (All members present signified aye .) Okay. Discussion of Memo from ZBA dated 10/ 1 /99 re Accessory Structures G. Totmam This is a letter that the Zoning Board Chairman wrote to the Town Board, and I thought you might just like to read through it. It's something we might want to look at because if you're going to make changes in the Ordinance , we're the ones that have to do it. G. Van Slyke: This is a typo I guess in the second paragraph? V. Travis: " . . . is concerned that someone could attempt to claim that not permits are not required . . . " What is that? G. Van Slyke: I don't know. Is that a typo? G. Totman : Yes, I assume it is. I read that. V. Travis: Permits are not required for accessory structures? I think it is "attempt to claim that permits are not required. . . " G. Van Slyke : So that word "not" should not be in there, right? V. Travis: That's what I would think. G. Totman: Well, I haven't had time to look it up, but I was trying to find in the Ordinance where it could only be 12 feet high . I didn't know that was in there . G. Van Slyke : Well, is it in there? Is there a 12 -foot limitation as to how high the garage could be? It would be in the definitions I would think. G. Totman : I was going to say, if we can find it, we can make a recommendation to the Town Board that it be changed. M. Carey: I didn't realize we had a height limit on that. G. Totman: I didn't either. For garages? Why would they -- Section 342 through 345 . Page 2 of 6 ,V Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting Minutes/Transcript 21 October 1999 G. Van Slyke: Wait a minute . Go to page 8 , okay? Height -- to the highest point of a pitched roof. Where does it say 12? M. Carey: Yes, where does it say the 12? G. Totman: On page 58, look at "e" on page 58, Detached accessory building or structure, 12 feet. V. Travis: Less with Site Plan Review. Less with Site Plan Review? G. Totman: It should be more with Site Plan Review. Twelve feet is not high enough for a garage . And the question that they raise in here -- and I talked to Lyle about it -- if people questioned it, that the 12 feet only meant the sides and not the peak of the roof. V. Travis: But that's not what it says in there. G. Totman: But that's not what it says here . S. Clark: Let's get it changed. How shall we word it? G. Totman: Well, what would be a reasonable height is what you've got to look at first. I'm not sure -- C. Twigg: In other words is what they didn't want was someone to put an outbuilding out there that was obnoxious. G. Totman: Well, I've never seen an ordinance where it's like this to be honest with you, but we made it, so -- why do we want to have a height limit for a garage? Suppose they want to have a garage right next to the house with an apartment over it or a storage area over it. And as long as it doesn't exceed the height of the house , what hurt would it do? S. Clark: On my new house, one of them is 16-foot high and nobody ever questioned that . George passed it. V. Travis: Well what if you want to put one of these Morton buildings or something? G. Totman: That's an accessory building. The town that I work in has a 35-foot limit on everything. And it's written the same as this -- the average grade to the midpoint of the highest peak. Both towns are the same is the way they're written here. But they don't have anything about the height of accessory buildings . ? C. Twigg: Why don't we just eliminate that on the accessory buildings? G. Totman: That would be my suggestion. G. Van Slyke: And it doesn't apply to silos or doesn't apply to -- G. Totman: Either eliminate it or say all buildings would meet the 35-foot limit. C. • Yes. G. Totman : What we have to do is come up with sort of a resolution that we'd have to make to present to the Town Board . C. Twigg: Just take that accessory buildings out of there . The height of the accessory building if it was the same as the other buildings . Why should it be any different than the other buildings? Page 3 of 6 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting Minutes/Transcript 21 October 1999 G. Totman: But on the first part of it, it says primary structure , 35 feet. So you've either got to take that primary structure out, or say all structures. Take the primary out, eliminate the accessory building structure , and say all structures . C. Twigg: That would be a lot more satisfactory than this is . V. Travis: What do you do about silos? G. Totman: They're excluded; they are agricultural . Silos don't even need a permit. G. Van Slyke: They are excluded in Section . . . G. Totman: Any agricultural building in New York State does not have to get a permit. S. Clark: There would never be a case where, say, two neighbors maybe didn't get along too well or something and this guy wanted to build a big outbuilding for some tractor trailers, right next to his line which was right next to the house , the neighbor's house? G. Totman : A good example of that, I think, is you know where the McLean School is and the ballfield? There's an accessory building over there that you could put tractor trailers in that's much over 12 feet tall. It was passed and got a permit in the Town of Groton -- Dave Cornell's. He's not there anymore. There was no problem with that building, and he got a permit. I guess we could say all structures. Put it in the minutes, but we have to make it in the form of a resolution I think. So when she types it up, she types up the minutes and then she types of the resolution and the resolution is presented to the Town Board, V. Travis: Can the resolution just express our intent, and then the lawyers will go through and G. Totman : Our intent is a suggestion to the Town Board. Ours is a recommendation. The Planning Board is an auxiliary board only for recommendations to the Town Board. And we recommend to the Town Board that we see there was a problem here and we make a resolution that the primary structure - - - V. Travis: I would move that the following resolution be presented to the Town Board: RESOLVED that the distinction between primary and accessory buildings be removed from the Groton Land Use & Development Code, and that the maximum height for all buildings and structures be established at a maximum of 35 feet/ 10,5 meters. G. Totman: Also in making reference to the height definition, definitions of height, because that tells you the average grade level of the highest midpoint of the highest roof. S. Clark: Are you going to put that not to exceed 35 feet in there? G. Totman : Yes. S. Clark: I'd like to second that motion. J. Fitch: So the last one - - you're also going to put that under the height definition? G. Totman: Wherever it appears in the Code , because it appears under every one of those different categories. Page 4 of 6 f � � Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting Minutes/Transcript 21 October 1999 G. Van Slyke: You don't need the height definition anymore . The height definition would be 35 feet? G. Totman: The definition for height is not 35 feet to the peak. You take the average grade level and it's 35 feet from that to the midpoint of the highest peak. You still leave that in there . G. Van Slyke : If you're on a side hill it makes a difference. G. Totman: Well a lot of it's for fire protection purposes. As long as they can get around to get their truck up . You could have your house built on a thing like this where half of your cellar would be at ground level -- ladders of the truck don't reach that high . I think that's why is was put in that way . Van made the motion and Sheldon seconded it. We need to vote . (All members present signified aye.) Okay. In every district, Rl , or R2 , or whatever you want to call it, that's in there so that would have to relate to all districts, all zoning districts. G. Van Slyke: You still have to leave in there see Section 308 as a list of exemptions, right? G. Totman: Yes. So when you do the minutes, can you do a separate resolution when you send it over? J. Fitch: If I can figure it out from what you've all been discussing. G. Totman: Well, read it back to us. J. Fitch: I can't do that either because you've changed it so many different ways here and there. G. Totman: I think you got the gist of it because you went to the other meeting so you know what we're talking about. J. Fitch: What I'm going to do is I'll fax what I have over to you so you can take a look at it before. V. Travis: That's a good idea. Approval of Minutes - September 16, 1999 G. Totman: Okay. Everybody ready? Has everybody read the minutes? G. Van Slyke: Yes. I move we approve the minutes of the September meeting. M. Carey: I'll second it. G. Totman: All in favor? (All members present signified aye.) Anything else you deem necessary to be brought before the Board? Other Matters (Continuing Ed) G. Van Slyke: Yes. Monica and I were at a meeting which you didn't attend , but it will count as a training session. We went to hear the guy from Rutgers on a Thursday. It was October 7th, I believe . And on zoning and he talked about all of the expansion. We were there with Lyle . G. Totman: Smart Growth, G. Van Slyke: He didn't say much about smart growth , but he was talking about what was happening. It was at the Holiday Inn in Ithaca. Page 5 of 6 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting Minutes/Transcript 21 October 1999 G. Totman: I spent Sunday, Monday and Tuesday of this week with Lyle in the Planning Federation down in the Catskills in Ellenville, NY. Anybody ever gets a chance , they ought to go to those because there's an awful lot to learn. I didn't stay Wednesday. S. Clark: Did you get a brochure on that Genesee/Finger Lakes one? V. Travis: Yes. S. Clark: I was thinking maybe I'd go up to that one . G. Totman : Do you know anything about a watershed meeting coming up? I forget the date , but it's going to be at the McLean Fire Station. M. Carey: I heard there was one coming, but I didn't know where it was at. I thought it was in Ithaca. G. Totman: I got it on the firemen's calendar, but I -- okay, on November 1st at 7: 30 there's going to be a Fall Creek Watershed Committee meeting. The only reason I know about it is because Sharon Anderson of Cornell Cooperative Extension called Bob Fouts and wanted to schedule a meeting because Bob Fouts is president of the fire company. But I do the calendar for the fire company so he called me up. There's a lot of water quality meetings all over the County and I asked three or four of them if they knew anything about this and they said no . Adjournment G. Van Slyke: I make a motion the meeting be adjourned. M. Carey: Second, G. Totman: All in favor? (All members present indicated aye . ) Meeting adjourned. The meeting was adjourned at 8 #30 p .m. J9 & E . Fitch cording Secretary Page 6 of 6