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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1999-09-16 TOWN OF GROTON PLANNING BOARD Meeting Minutes/Transcript - Thursday, 16 September 1999 Members, Groton Planning Board (*Absent) Others Present George Totman, Chairman Joan Fitch , Recording Secretary Monica Carey Jeffrey Snyder, Applicant and *Cecil 71\vigg Ward Harrison, RO George Van Slyke Allen Stickels, Applicant Sheldon Clark Van Travis The meeting was called to order at 7:30 p .m. by Chairman George Totman. Approval of Minutes/Transcript - 19 August 1999 G. Totman: I assume everybody's read the Minutes of the previous meeting. M. Carey: Yes. V. Travis: Yes. G. Totman : Would anyone like to move that we pass that we pass the Minutes of that meeting? V. Travis: I so move that we pass the Minutes of the previous meeting, as submitted. G. Totman: Monica seconded it. All in favor (all members present were in favor) . Jeffrey Snyder, Applicant/Ward & Sue Harrison , ROs - 575 West Groton Rd. - TM # 22- 1 - 1 . 1 G. Totman: We have before us tonight a person who wants to re-activate a place that has been a motor vehicle repair shop in the past, but because it's been out of business for more than a year, they have to re-apply for a permit to run it, right? You're Jeff I assume? J. Snyder: Yes. G. Totman: The other gentleman's name is Ward Harrison. And I assume all the Planning Board members have read the application. (Board members acknowledged they had . ) Would you like to explain what you're planning on doing? J. Snyder: Just automotive repair, mechanical work. S. Clark: Now will you be working in conjunction with Ward, or is it a separate entity? W. Harrison: It's a separate entity, but I own the place and I've got a junkyard license for the place. V. Travis: So the junkyard permit that's referred to here is yours ; is that right? W. Harrison: Correct. He's renting the front half of the shop up there and I've got the back half. I store parts back there . S. Clark: So I guess they need to set up the usual hours, parking, and all that stuff. G. Totman : Now has everybody been up there and looked at the place? Page 1 of 8 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting Minutes/Transcript 16 September 1999 V. Travis: I have not. G. Totman: It's on the left as you go out West Groton Road, and there's a fence up around most of the place. And there was this type operation before up there which was approved. W. Harrison: There's plenty of parking. The only problem we have is Abe Congdon over there . . . G. Totman: Well, one of the things we always have to look at because this is the nature of the Planning Board, is to look at what we're going to be doing or what we're going to be approving. Is it offensive to the neighborhood? Is it going to keep them up late at night and keep them awake , and that sort of thing and stuff like that. Normally, if you're -- you're not going to do body and fender work; you're going to do repair work, right? J. Snyder. Maybe a little touch-up work or something like that. G. Totman: But, like, for example, let me just give you an example : you're not planning on doing outside work that would keep neighbors awake after eight o'clock at night? J. Snyder: No, no . W. Harrison: We did more of that last year doing race cars up there . V. Travis: What did you say Abe Congdon's objection was? W. Harrison: Well, when I got the junkyard license, he didn't want me to come in there with a crusher and be crushing at nine o'clock at night. V. Travis: Oh . G. Totman: What our purpose here is to make sure that when we approve something, sometimes we have to hold a public hearing; it depends on the nature -- it's really up to the Planning Board whether they do or they don't, to get it approved. And we normally request that they provide ample parking, what the hours of operation are going to be , and what days of the week -- if it's seven days a week, that's fine , but if it's going to be on Sunday and it's close to a church it shouldn't be--the outside noise we're talking about - - inside it' s not noise that will affect the neighbors . W. Harrison: We really don't bother anybody. G. Totman: That's what Sheldon's question was is about the noise and stuff like that. We're supposed to be looking at things like that. Anyone else have any questions? G. Van Slyke: Let me ask the obvious one—what hours are you planning on operating? J. Snyder: Like 8 to 5 , Monday thru Friday, and Saturday until noon . S. Clark: Will it be a licensed inspection station? G. Totman : What about Sundays? J. Snyder: No Sundays . No , not an inspection station . G. Totman : What we're talking about is the operation where it would be outside noise , like we're not talking about if it's inside the garage and it's quiet and it's not bothering the neighborhood . We're talking about whatever he does that would affect the neighborhood by having outside noise . Is that correct? (Board members nodded in affirmative .) So if we put on the Permit, if they pass it, that your normal hours would be somewhere between 8 and 6 throughout the week, and 8 to 2 on Saturdays, and no Sundays, would that be acceptable? Page 2 of 8 r, ,Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting Minutes/Transcript 16 September 1999 J. Snyder: Yes. G. Totman: That's not quite what you said, but that's what I wrote down. S. Clark: Now do we have to do a SEAR on this? G. Totman: Yes, a Short Form SEAR S. Clark: And do we ask him about used oil , antifreeze , and that kind of stuff? G. Totman : Well, you can , and it's probably good. They also have to know that if they don't do the right things on that, somebody else besides us is going to be after them. S. Clark: That's not really what we police, right? G. Totman : No, we don't police it. W. Harrison: No, DEC does that; they make you get a watershed permit. G. Totman: Ward knows all about that. He's been through all that. W. Harrison: He doesn't generate enough hazardous waste. G. Totman : But if he does have changed oil and things, he's got to account for where it goes. Correct? W. Harrison: Not with the Town . And if you're not generating something like 50 gallons a month , or something on that order. G. Totman : Okay, I know there's a stipulation there . W. Harrison : He's not big enough to have a watershed permit; I've got one . G. Totman: You're not going to get a State license for doing inspections or anything like that? J. Snyder: No. G. Van Slyke: So who's going to police what little bit of oil and antifreeze he does have? W. Harrison: He'll be bringing it to me. G. Van Slyke: Do you recycle? W. Harrison : I recycle. I use it for heat. I can dump the oil on the ground up there anyhow because it's my place, you know. There's probably enough on the ground up there now. G. Van Slyke: So you have one of those furnaces that you can recycle the oil? W. Harrison: Yes, G. Totman: I'm going to tell you about this SEAR process. I don't know whether I've done it before with you or not. W. Harrison: No, I haven't heard about it. G. Totman : It's the law of the land of New York State that any action a board takes, whatever board it is, they have to go through the State Environmental Review form to see if it's going to create any problems with the environment and that sort of thing. And when we go through the form, we Page 3 of 8 , Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting Minutes/Transcript 16 September 1999 always start out with the short form. But in some areas, if it's going to be like a shopping mall or something like that, you automatically start off with the long form. To give you an idea, this is what turned Wal•Mart down in the City of Ithaca, the SEAR process, because they could never meet it. But we always usually start out with the short form, and if you don't have enough negatives, then it stops ; but we have to go through it. If we don't and somebody in the area, like the neighbor you mentioned, didn't approve of this, and he had an attorney or whatever, and they said well, they didn't go through the SEAR form, so that approval is null and void. So we have to do this. The reason I explained that is because some of the questions there really don't relate to what you're doing. And George Van Slyke normally does our reading. So if you would, please? G. Van Slyke: Are you ready? Board Member George Van Slyke then reads aloud. Part II of the Short Environmental Assessment Form. Negative responses were obtained to all questions in Part II. Therefore, it was determined by the Planning Board, upon a motion made by Member Monica Carey, seconded by Member Van Travis, with all members present voting in favor, that the action, based on the information submitted, will not cause any significant adverse environmental impact, resulting in a Negative Declaration, G. Totman: Any other questions of the applicant? G. Van Slyke: Do you already have a sign up there? That has nothing to do with us anyway. G. Totman: What he's saying is if it's approved, the Site Plan process here, and then you start operating and you want to put up a sign saying this is Jeff Snydees Repair Shop , you have to come back to the Zoning Officer or the Town Clerk; she will give you the application . We don't do that. The Code Enforcement Officer does that. You know Mark Gunn; he's the one that gives out the sign permits. W. Harrison : When did they start having to have a sign permit? G. Totman: About 25 years ago. W. Harrison: So the repair shop permit is a sign permit? G. Totman: No, no . This operation here is just saying it's legal to operate the repair shop there. If you're going to put up a sign, then you got to get a sign permit. It's government bureaucracy. W. Harrison : I better talk to him because I don't think I ever got a sign permit. G. Totman: Then probably you're illegal . To give you an idea, you know where Eric wanted to fix the Volkswagens and all that sort of thing? I don't think Van was on then, but Monica was and Jeff and George. He wanted to put up a sign so he applied for a sign permit. And it required that it be so far off the road and all that sort of thing. Well , if he had to do it the way the law reads, it would be behind the trees around his garage there so you couldn't even see the thing. So he wanted to put it across the road; and if he did that it would be on someone else's land, and that required a different size sign and too expensive to put it up , so we had to get some sort of a variance for it to put his sign up for that. But nevertheless, he got his sign permit. Of course, he doesn't do that anymore now. W. Harrison: I'll have to check that out to see if I've got a sign permit. G. Totman : How long's it been there? W. Harrison : Since 1979 when I got the permit to have the repair shop and stuff. I bought Bixler's old place . G. Totman : This isn't where White was? Page 4 of 8 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting Minutes/Transcript 16 September 1999 W. Harrison: This is where White was, but I never got a sign permit. G. Totman: It isn't a big deal, but otherwise someone will come around and say hey. . . . J. Snyder: Another 30 bucks? G. Totman: I'm not sure what the sign permit costs. Do we want require this go to a public hearing, or does someone want to make a motion that they -- what I've 'written down, what he's saying is, if we pass it: ( 1 ) the applicant has said that he wants to be open from 8 to 6. Monday thru Friday, Saturday, 8 to 2 , and he's not going to operate on Sunday, and (2) in this operation there will be no outside noise . Anybody want to make that motion? G. Van Slyke: I'm going to make the motion that since this was already operating one time and there's been a repair shop there originally, that there's no use for a public hearing on this thing, and we'll waive the public hearing, and that we approve the Site Plan with the hours stated, 8 to 6 Monday to Friday, 8 to 2 Saturday. S. Clark: Second . G. Van Slyke: All in favor? (All Board members present indicated in the affirmative.) Allen E. & Linda C. Stickels - 130 Cemetery Lane - TM # 374 -22 . 2 G. Totman : Allen is here for a subdivision so he can sell or transfer some land to one of his children. A. Stickels: Two of them. G. Totman: Okay. It's on Cemetery Lane over in McLean . V. Travis: Will this then result in three lots out of the one? A. Stickels: Yes. Well, no. V. Travis: One to the son, one to the daughter, and some left over. Is that right? A. Stickels: Have you all got this map? G. Van Slyke: See, that's the problem. This is all he gave us. A. Stickels: He's got the map with the numbers on it. Here's some more copies. I stopped this noon and put some numbers on there . G. Van Slyke: See the one we got in the mail - - A. Stickels: A will join onto D . My son-in-law, David Teeter, owns Parcel D now, and A will join onto D . V. Travis: It's clear. Parcel 22 . 2 there is going to be divided into three parcels. G. Totman: Back up a minute. Parcel A, where there's a dotted line between Parcel A and B. that will become a solid line and A will disappear and become part of Parcel D . M. Carey: Right, G. Totman: So he's asking for a boundary line change for Parcel A. and B and C into two separate lots. So when you wind this up , you'll have a solid line between A and B, and a solid line between B and C; but A will revert into Parcel D . Is that correct? Page 5 of 8 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting Minutes/Transcript 16 September 1999 A. Stickels: Yes. G. Totman: So it's boundary change and a -- A. Stickels: If I'd of answered his question the way I should have, it would have been yes. But I jumped right ahead and said A will be joined with D . V. Travis: No, I'm clear as to what's happening. A. Stickels: D will become larger. B is a new parcel, and a G. Van Slyke : Do you own the rest of the land around that? A. Stickels : No. Just inside the yellow is what I own. G. Totman: And how long has it been since you've done any other subdivision along that side? A. Stickels: Oh , the last parcel that I sold from the main farm was in 1993 . G. Totman: So the way I read the Ordinance -- A. Stickels: I got a new parcel number. I used to be 38 and now I'm 37 . In other words, I sold off enough to move all my land out of Map 38 . So now I'm on 37 . G. Totman: The way I read the Ordinance is that you asked for a boundary change for A to go into D . And we, in the Town of Groton, allow people to have a one-lot subdivision without coming to us. So if he had just asked for a boundary change for putting A into D. the other two would be all right. You wouldn't have had to come . So as I look at it, and correct me if I'm wrong, we're really talking about a boundary change . G. Van Slyke: Yes, right. For Parcel A. G. Totman : Correct? A. Stickels: What's the difference? G. Totman : It makes a difference on whether you go for a public hearing or not. I'm trying to avoid that. V. Travis: I'm not arguing that, but aren't we also creating then -- G. Totman: We're creating one lot. We're taking A and putting it into D . That's a boundary change . So now we're saying we're taking their parcel and dividing it into two which can be done without coming to us. G. Van Slyke : Right. V. Travis: Okay, I'm following you. A. Stickels: We're creating two lots, two new lots. G. Totman : No, no . You're creating one new lot. A. Stickels : Which is Be G. Totman: Right now you've got A, B , and C . A is going into D , and that's not creating a new lot. Page 6 of 8 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting Minutes/Transcript 16 September 1999 A. Stickels: No. G. Totman : So you're taking the rest of what's left, drawing a line down between it, and you're creating one new lot. A. Stickels : Yes, if you consider C to be the original. G. Totman: The whole thing is the original. And when you're done , you're making a boundary change on A. and you draw a line between the other ones and you've created one new lot. V. Travis: But really the boundary change is for D . G. Totman: Yes, V. Travis: D becomes larger. G. Van Slyke: That was what I was going to ask you . Is 21 the lot number -- A. Stickels : I sold that off to m daughter way back in -- G. Van Slyke: But 21 is the lot number for D . So all you're going to do is a boundary change -- A. Stickels : Don't be mistaken. I don't own 21 . My daughter does. G. Van Slyke : That's right, but it would -- A. Stickels: And her lot would become larger. G. Van Slyke: Right. You're trying to put A with D . G. Totman : That's the boundary change. What is that frontage on C? A. Stickels : What's the question, Monica? M. Carey: Road frontage . A. Stickels: I paced it off at well over 300 feet. G. Totman: It's got to be at least 150. A. Stickels : I paced off 300 and quit. In talking to Mike Lane he said to mention that you've got enough frontage left, and I do . I have plenty. G. Van Slyke : So what you're really trying to do is just square these babies off. A. Stickels : Well, yes. I drew what looks like a perfectly straight line . Actually, on the survey, B is skewed a little bit on the shorter side. G. Van Slyke : It doesn't really matter. A. Stickels: By saying we're expanding one boundary line , am I creating one lot or two? G. Totman : You're taking one lot -- A. Stickels: But I'm selling two parcels. Page 7 . of 8 n Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting Minutes/Transcript 16 September 1999 G. Totman: You're taking one lot and changing the boundary to give somebody more over here, So you're creating two lots out of one , You are really only creating one new lot. I was looking at the larger tax map here to see if I could - - A. Stickels: I'm having two closings and giving two parcels of land . That's how I interpret it as an owner, and you interpret it different like expanding boundaries. G. Totman: See , you've got 1430 feet originally on that whole lot, A. Stickels : That Parcel D that's surveyed off is 782 of road frontage -- G. Totman: That leaves about 300 feet (for Q . As I'm looking at the situation , we're passing a boundary change . We normally require 150 feet of road frontage and an acre of land, and he's got much more than that on both parcels. Any action of this Board has to have a SEAR. George? G. Van Slyke: Are you ready, Joan? I'm ready, Board Member George Van Slyke then reads aloud Part 11 of the Short Environmental Assessment Form, Negative responses were obtained to all questions in Part H. Therefore, it was determined by the Planning Board, upon a motion made by Member Van Travis, seconded by Member Sheldon Clark, with all members present voting in favor, that the action, based on the information submitted, will not cause any significant adverse environmental impact, resulting in a Negative Declaration. M. Carey: I'll make a motion that we approve the Allen Stickels' boundary change . S. Clark: I'll second that motion . G. Totman: All in favor? (All Board members present indicated in the affirmative .) Passed, The only thing is, to make this legal, you've got to have it surveyed and bring a copy of the survey in and have it signed, so that I can sign it. And to make it much simpler than that, bring it into the Deputy Clerk in here ; she has a stamp with my name already on it and she can just put the seal on it, So I don't have to be here, so you won't have to wait for me . She can make a copy of it or whatever to show that it was approved. Is there any other business to come before the Board? If not, I'll entertain a motion to adjourn , Adjournment G. Van Slyke: I make a motion the meeting be adjourned , S. Clark: Second . G. Totman : All in favor? (All members present indicated aye.) Meeting adjourned, The meeting was adjourned at 8930 p .m. E. Fitch ecording Secretary Page 8 of 8