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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1999-07-15 TOWN OF GROTON PLANNING BOARD Public Hearing & Meeting Minutes/Transcript - Thursday, 15 July 1999 Members, Groton Planning Board (*Absent) Others Present George Totman, Chairman Joan Fitch , Recording Secretary Monica Carey Ed Graffius, Applicant *Cecil Twigg George Van Slyke Verl Rankin Sheldon Clark Van Travis The meeting was called to order at 7:35 p.m. by Chairman George Totman. Approval of Minutes - May 20, 1999 Meeting G. Totman: I need a motion to approve or approve with corrections the May Minutes , M. Carey: I move that we approve the May Minutes as submitted. G. Van Slyke: I'll second the motion . G. Totman: All those in favor? (All members present indicated aye . ) Edward Graffius - Site Plan Review - 113 Old Peruville Road - TM # 36- 1-35. 1 G. Totman: Before we get started, I 'm not sure how many of you know where he lives, because usually we get a tax map showing where it is. M. Carey: Yes, I know. L J. Fitch: Can I get an address for the Minutes? G. Totman: It's 113 Old Peruville Road. The tax map number is -- J. Fitch: I 've got that. G. Totman: Oh , okay. And so I made copies at work today of the tax maps just to give you an idea of where it is. You can all look' at it. I think I've got it right; let me check with the man to make sure I've got the right property . E. Graffius: Yes, that's it. G. Totman: Okay, I just thought it would give everybody a better chance to see what they're looking at. And it doesn't say anything in here who the neighbors were, which normally it requires, I thought. M. Carey: Is it time to start asking questions? G. Totman: Sure , M. Carey: Okay, I'm not really sure where this is. You go through Peruville? E. Graffius: Yes. Page 1 of 9 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting Minutes/Transcript 15 July 1999 G. Totman: When you go through Peruville, you take a left-hand turn . Then you make a right to go the other way -- well just before you make that right, his is back in there . M. Carey: That little jog back in there, right? E. Graffius: Yes, it's a dead end . A dead-end street. There's only one -- M. Carey. Yes, right. Where Corny use to live , right down in that area? E. Graffius: Yes, Vormwald's old place right at the end . M. Carey: Oh, at the end. Okay. Are you going to just sell motorcycle parts and accessories, or will you be repairing motorcycles? E. Graffius: No, just sell parts and accessories. I don't do any repair work. V. Travis: It looks like there's an existing shop there . There was a sign up under the eaves which I didn't go in that far to read, but there was a sign that said Dead-End Shop . E. Graffius: That's my garage , my home garage. The part where I sell accessories is on the end of the house right there . There' s a set of stairs and a railing that goes into a little room, about half the size of this room . I 've been existing there for 9 years; I've been doing business there . I don't know if that was discussed or anything. I didn't know I had to have -- what am I applying for? G. Totman: Site Plan approval . E. Graffius: Site Plan approval. I had no idea about that and I talked it over with the zoning man at that time . He said no, you're part-time and you don't need that. That was quite a while ago. And I only work from 6 to 9 during the weekdays, and on the weekends from about 9 to 2 on Saturday and that's it. And, of course , come September and October, and thru the winter, it's quiet. Really quiet. M. Carey: So it' s only part-time . V. Travis: In the evening. E. Graffius: Yes, 6 to 9. 1 work full-time . I brought my homeowner' s insurance policy and my business license too. I have insurance on the business. It's a legal business; I do sales tax. My bookwork's right on there . I didn't bring it all with me . G. Totman: So your closest neighbors are McWilliams and Pat and Jane West? E. Graffius: They live on Sobers(?) Road . M. Carey: They're going up the hill a ways. G. Totman: And you've been operating this for 9 years? E. Graffius: Yes, M. Carey: Well, you're doing the right thing now. E. Graffius: Yes, that's what I want to make sure of. G. Van Slyke: So how did you find out that you needed that? Did he finally come around to you , or— Page 2 of 9 ' Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting Minutes/Transcript 15 July 1999 E. Graffius: No, I sent my dog license in and stamped the envelope with the Dead-End Shop and he looked it up and it wasn't registered . That's how it came about. G. Van Slyke: Oh , the Zoning Officer did. E. Graffius: There's three sections; I thought I was to keep one, I kept one, and you're not supposed to. You're to send all three in. So he sent it back to me and that's when he called me on the phone and says, Edward, we've got to have a little get together here. Because I thought it was something to do with the deck and porch I'm putting on front of the house, and I thought that had to do something with that . Because the guy doing the contract told me I didn't need a building permit, and then I found out that I do because I 'm putting a roof on it, and I want to make sure everything was kosher with everybody before . One person told me one thing, and another told me another. So I found out on my own what the real story was. But that's what gave it away was my dog. Didn't give it away, but that's how it surfaced . G. Totman: Okay, well? V. Travis: So in terms of the neighbors, they've been acquainted with this for 9 years? E. Graffius: Oh, yes. They like seeing the bikes and I have a few really good customers, mostly older motorcycles . Nothing really on the modern side . I'm into restorations and stuff like that. And everybody's usually pretty quiet. I've never had any complaints . G. Totman: Nobody ever guns them up out there or anything? E. Graffius: Oh , no. I've told people to be nice, and everybody's real respectful of me . G. Totman. Any other questions? M. Carey: Guess not. I mean you've got enough parking because you're at the end of that dead- end street. E. Graffius: It's a two-car driveway with a third -- up by the shop it gets a little wider in the dead- end. The stairway has a railing on it. In the wintertime , the snow's all taken care of and a little salt put down. G. Van Slyke: George, what is that? You want to say no onstreet parking, right? Is that what you want to say, George? G. Totman: Well , I was thinking about it earlier, I thought well , this is right into a populated area and there's a lot of people around . That's why I looked up to see who the neighbors were and stuff. But he does set back in on the end of a dead-end street. I didn't know that he'd been in operation for 9 years, and if that's true , and the reason he's here is not because the neighbors have been complaining , it's just the Zoning Officer found a business operating without a Site Plan approval . What would you think about -- see , normally, all we have to do is decide whether you want to accept it or reject it, or do you want, as is your prerogative , to hold a public hearing to let other people know what we're approving? Sometimes we do, sometimes we don't. It depends on the neighborhood , it depends on what the operation is. What I would ask you then is, supposing we approved it. You would agree that all parking would be offstreet? E. Graffius: Yes. G. Totman: And that your hours would be weekdays from 6 to 12 , and 9 to 2 on Saturdays. G. Van Slyke: No, he said 6 to 9. G. Totman: Yes, 6 to 9. I wrote that down. So if anybody objects and says there's lots of noise down there, are they after 9 o'clock at night. And things like that. And that' s what the Zoning Officer has to go by if somebody complains . Page 3 of 9 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting Minutes/Transcript 15 July 1999 E. Graffius: Right, G. Totman: So bearing that in mind, and all your parking will be offstreet, does anybody want to move whether we have a public hearing or not or whatever? G. Van Slyke: Do we want to go to the motion right now? G. Totman, Well, we could do that because we still have to do this. G. Van Slyke: We still have to do the SEQRA first. But do you want to go right to the motion? G. Totman: Include everything all in one motion? J. Pitch: You should do the SEQRA first. G. Totman: Well, you can do it anytime , really. Well, however you want to do it. M. Carey: Well I' ll make the motion that we don't need a public hearing, with the conditions as he agreed to, and approve it pending approval of the SEQRA. G. Totman: Okay. G. Van Slyke: I'll second it. G. Totman: And everybody's in favor? And nobody's against. V. Travis: Aye . G. Totman: You are what? V. Travis: I 'm in favor. G. Totman: Okay. Now I don't know if you are familiar with what we call SEQRA., so I have to explain this. This is what the call a State Environmental Quality Review Assessment. And it' s any action a board makes, whether it be a town board , planning board, or county board . They have to do a SEQRA. Some are long forms, some are short forms . This is the short form, and if you find anything in there where it may be environmentally unkind , or whatever, then you might have to -- like , I don' t know if you're familiar with the Wal•Mart situation down in Ithaca or not, but that's the big problem they had was trying to get through the SEQRA process. That's the questions we're asking that are on the form that's give to us. George? G. Van Slyke: Are you ready? Board Member George Van Slyke then reads aloud Part 11 of the Short Environmental Assessment Form. Negative responses were obtained to all questions in Part IL Therefore, it was determined by the Planning Board, upon a motion made by Member Van Travis, seconded by Member Monica Carey, with all members present voting in favor, that the action, based on the information submitted, will not cause any significant adverse environmental impact, resulting in a Negative Declaration, G. Totman: Okay. That's it. Now the only thing is -- I might suggest it -- now once we pass something like this, then the Code Enforcement Officer is supposed to come around and inspect it at least once a year to make sure you're following these rules. And you're saying here that you're not selling vehicles, it's just for a repair shop . Repair and selling parts. E. Graffius: Parts and accessories; not even repair work. Page 4 of 9 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting Minutes/Transcript 15 July 1999 G. Totman: Just parts and accessories. Like a mini-store? E. Graffius: Yes. To guys who put their own stuff on. No oil or brake jobs; I don't want to get involved in that . G. Van Slyke: The things that make you a real biker. G. Totman: Okay. And if you put up a sign, you've got to get a sign permit. E. Graffius: Okay. G. Totman: That's his job to make sure you follow the rules. E. Graffius: There's one on the building; I'll have to get one for that too. G. Totman: Just check with Mark. E. Graffius: Mark? I will see him shortly because they're doing work to the house and I got a building permit. G. Totman: Check with him. The only reason I mention it is so you don't get in trouble when he comes around. Okay? E. Graffius: Yes, G. Totman: Now the lady in the front office will type it up and she'll put the stipulations on there about what we talked about, the hours, and it's just a parts and paraphernalia related to motorcycles , and no onstreet parking. You're all set. Discussion of July 12. 1999 Memo to Planning Board from April Scheffler G. Totman: We're talking about the letter April sent to the Planning Board. For the Minutes purposes, a copy is attached to become a part of the record, instead of reading it. She says that she has folders on her desk from Pierson, Babel, and Portzline for their subdivisions . We are not the enforcement officers. We are the planners and the advisors, and it would be my opinion that, because the Ordinance says 180 days they have to file these things, if they don't file them, if the want to enforce the Ordinance, they would send a notice out a week or two in advance , and I would do it by Certified Mail , and tell them that 180 days are up and if they don't file , their approval will be null and void , and they'll have to re-apply before the Planning Board , And I don' t know what else -- all we can do is make suggestions how they do it. Where I work, I put it in the file "Pending" and when they come in, I handle them. If they don't come in, why -- but maybe we should, when we approve it, make it quite clear to them so it's in the Minutes that they have 180 days to file it. I don't think we've done that. M. Carey: I don't think we've ever done that. G. Totman: But it does say that in the Ordinance . V. Rankin : Of course Frank Pierson , it might take him a year to do anything . G. Totman: But I don't know what else we can do. In her letter, she also discusses the Van Benschoten, Babel, Portzline G. Van Slyke: Where do you see Van Benschoten? G. Totman: Well, we have a letter here that -- she didn't say anything about that one. Page 5 of 9 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting Minutes/Transcript 15 July 1999 G. Van Slyke: Pierson, Babel, and Portzline . G. Totman: Pierson, Babel, and Portzline . That would be, I think, what we're talking about, unless some of you got some other suggestions or ideas. This has never come up to us before . Never, that I know of. We wait until they come in. But unless some of you people have got a better idea or -- G. Van Slyke: Well, the thing is -- we gave the approval like for the Portzline deal. Now that subdivision, there's already been a lot and a building permit and everything else given out on that , right? G. Totman: Well that was the first lot. That was a one-lot subdivision . G. Van Slyke: Okay, that was a one-lot. G. Totman: Because there's been nothing done with the rest of them. V. Travis: What you're saying is -- I'm a little slow in catching this -- they are supposed to have 180 days anyways. G. Van Slyke: Yes. And the Ordinance says -- V. Travis: Now why is April getting - - maybe we should tell April that they have 180 days. G. Van Slyke: That's the question she's asking. How long do they have? And the thing is, you know, supposedly these people are subdividing. It's not our job to tell them how much time they've got. Maybe it would be a good thing we did. But hopefully, if they are coming in asking for a subdivision , they are going to know what our Ordinance says. M. Carey: Well, especially if they are coming in and asking for a subdivision, they obviously have some buyers for the land too . But maybe a buyer backed out. The Ordinance says 180 days, so I don't think we can do anything until after 180 days at all . G. Van Slyke: It says after the date of resolution. G. Totman: She says they were approved in May and June, so the 180 days aren't up . V. Travis: Barely 60. G. Totman: I usually stop in here on Friday afternoons, and I'd be glad to tell April , but I'm not going to be able to do that tomorrow, so she'll have to wait till Monday to see me. G. Van Slyke: I guess, George, I have a question here, too. It's not our responsibility to write them a letter informing them of what the limits are either, is it? That's not the job of the Planning Board to write that kind of letter stating the length of time they have . G. Totman: Anybody else got any comment? S. Clark: I think we answered it a long time ago. V. Travis: I think that's right. She ought to be checking her pending file, and two weeks prior to the expiration of the 180 days, send a notice to them saying your Site Plan or Subdivision approval is about to expire, and please come in or you will need to re-apply if you still want approval . G. Totman: I agree. From the Planning Board's standpoint, our suggestion is that the Zoning Officer looks at these things and, in the case of Howard , he can't open up until he gets his Health Permit. If he's having trouble and it takes two or three months to get the permit, so be it. But he can 't let him open until he gets it. If somebody applies for a subdivision , they've got at least 180 days. It Page 6 of 9 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting Minutes/Transcript 15 July 1999 would be my thing, as a common courtesy, to maybe a couple weeks before the 180 days are up to -- like you have one of these little files -- what do you call them V. Travis: Ticklers . G. Totman: Tickler files they look at . Send them a letter and tell them the time is approaching where it will be null and void if you don't file it, or come in and whatever. But the Planning Board, as far as I know, is not an enforcement board . Discussion of Zoning Officer Matters as per Agenda G. Totman: Now according to this letter, he gave Doug -- M. Carey. called Doug a couple of times. He told him to send him a letter. G. Totman: He did. I don't know if it was Certified or not, but says no later than July 12th in order to be on the Agenda for the next Planning Board meeting. M. Carey: He's written right in the letter that it's a violation of Article 3, Section 341 of the Town of Groton Land Use & Development Code , so it's out of our hands. Right there , he writes right in it . G. Van Slyke: Go ahead and take him to court. S. Clark: It's been going on a lot of years . V. Travis: But isn't that referring to coming to this meeting to get a Site Plan Review which would place him in compliance . G. Totman: Well, for a junk yard you've got to go to the Town Board. For a junk yard, it' s a license, and you have to go to the Town Board for a license . So that wouldn't even be the Planning Board's. G. Van Slyke: Is he classified as a junk yard? G. Totman: Well , he's got more than two cars, rubbish, machinery . V. Travis: He's also storing a large number of junk vehicles. G. Van Slyke: I think you just need to cite the guy and get him in. V. Travis: Well, that's what he says in the last paragraph , I guess. Our advice to Mark is -- proceed. Isn't that right? G. Totman: Right. G. Van Slyke: Okay, let's go to the number three one here, the Ricky Darling one . He didn't send them a letter, but maybe they haven't got Health Department approval for that. That was a store , though , wasn't it? Weren 't they going to just sell honey out of the front of thing? G. Totman: Well, they are doing both . They are making honey and selling it in the same place . But really, I don't think they're selling it so much as they are wholesaling it. M. Carey: They were going to sell it. G. Van Slyke: I thought they came for a retail place in front of the building. G. Totman: Somewhat. But they are also wholesaling it and they are making it there also . Page 7 of 9 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting Minutes/Transcript 15 July 1999 V. Travis: I haven't seen any retail activity. G. Totman: No, I haven't either. J. Fitch: In your Minutes, and I have it in my notes, they told you they didn't need Health Department approval because it was a natural food . G. Van Slyke: Okay, that's right. G. Totman: Yes, but then we need a letter from the Health Department saying that because -- M. Carey: Didn't they have one with them that night? G. Totman: They're selling food to eat, and we can't very well give people a permit to operate selling food unless we get the Health Department says you don't need a permit. V. Travis: The Health Department is pretty lax on that in that when we opened our store we really had to press them. They said you don't need Health Department approval because in our case we did not prepare any of the food on the premises. And it wasn't until my wife said, would you please put that in writing, that they said well, okay, but they are pretty lax on that unless they press them. M. Carey: I thought he had a letter with him that night saying that he didn't need approval from the Health Department. Do you remember, Joan? G. Totman: No . We asked him for it. G. Van Slyke: The only one that's a question here is the landowner consent. V. Travis: That's Floyd Wesley, G. Totman: No, no . Floyd is not the owner of that property . M. Carey: I thought this Darling was the owner. G. Totman: No, they rent that building off of somebody else . That's what they said that night. M. Carey: He lives in the trailer next to the building then . V. Travis: They are working with Floyd , but Floyd does not own that particular building? G. Totman: That's the way I understand it. G. Van Slyke: Floyd lived across the street? V. Travis: Yes, that is right. G. Van Slyke: Then the only thing to say on number three, then, is to go drive out and just check with him and see if they've got the landowner's consent. M. Carey: Well, we must have sent letters to all these people, because --- V. Travis: See, this was not signed on the application, and when they -- G. Totman: There's nothing we can do about that until we get that permit. I just don't understand it . V. Rankin: What's the holdup with Howard? Page 8 of 9 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting Minutes/Transcript 15 July 1999 M. Carey: The Health Department wants him to put in a 3 , 000-gallon septic system . (Multiple simultaneous conversations erupt. Unable to take /record them.) G. Totman: Time out a minute . You've got to consider if you were setting in that chair behind me , it's kind of hard to carry on the Minutes with two conversations going at the same time . M. Carey: So Steve had to get an engineer. G. Totman: We're talking about Steve Howard now and the pizza place up on 222 . M. Carey: And the engineer is working with the Health Department on how to set up the septic system, but I don't think they're going to go with a 3,000 gallon . I'm not sure what they're going with now. There's no way you'd have enough water running through that 3000 gallons to -- G. Van Slyke: Was that the Health Department's recommendation? M. Carey: Yes, V. Travis: Well the septic system installed more than five years ago at the Elm Tree Inn cost over $ 18 ,000. Sand filter. And I believe I heard Mrs. Howard say that they fully expected it would be a sand filter rather than a leach field system. M. Carey: Oh, yes. It was just the size of the tank that kind of took them aback. G. Totman: Okay, is there any other comments officially that we can put in the Minutes? V. Rankin: We've already said it. G. Van Slyke: He's the Enforcement Officer. We're not. V. Travis: That's right. And he needs to proceed on these matters under his own authority. G. Totman: Okay . Is there anything else that anybody would like to bring up? V. Travis: I have nothing. M. Carey: No , Adjournment G. Van Slyke: I move we adjourn . S. Clark: I 'll second it. G. Totman: All in favor? (All members present indicated aye .) The meeting was adjourned at 8: 15 p.m. Jgg E. Fitch c Recording Secretary Page 9 of 9