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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1999-02-18 TOWN OF GROTON PLANNING BOARD Meeting Minutes/Transcript - Thursday, 18 February 1999 Members, Groton Planning Board (*Absent) Others Present George Totman, Chairman Joan Fitch, Recording Secretary Monica Carey Ronald Space, Applicant *Cecil Twigg George Van Slyke Verl Rankin Sheldon Clark *Van Travis The meeting was called to order at 7*30 p .m. by Chairman George Totman. G. Totman: We'll call the meeting to order. We have a quorum. Approval of Minutes - 28 January 1999 Meeting G. Totman: You all got the Minutes of the January meeting in the mail. G. Van Slyke : I move we accept them as submitted. G. Totman: All 21 pages of them? M. Carey: Yes, G. Totman: Did anybody second that motion? M. Carey: I did. G. Totman: Anybody against them? (No Board member present indicated any opposition) . Passed. J. Fitch: You might note that where you set your meeting date, and what have you, you've got a motion and you had a second, but there was no vote . M. Carey. We had no motion? J. Fitch: You had a motion, you had a second. It was towards the end G. Totman: Why didn't we just down there that we voted and nobody would know the difference? V. Rankin: Wait a minute, we've got to do everything legal. G. Van Slyke: You're on the record here, bud . G. Totman : Well, to correct that error in the Minutes, if somebody wants to make a motion -- G. Van Slyke: I move we amend the - - G. Totman: We set the third Thursday of the month at 7 : 30 , George Van Slyke made the motion, Verl seconded the motion, and all in favor`? (All Board members present indicated aye .) Passed. Thank you. M. Carey: Okay, so we got the Minutes passed. Page 1 of 12 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript February 18, 1999 John & Sam Sweeney, Applicants, dba Sweeney Farms - Peruville Road - Part of TM # 37- 1 - 16 . 2 G. Totman: Is there somebody else coming? R. Space. Actually, I'm going to be the only one - - Me Carey: This is Ron Space , G. Totman: I know. M. Carey: But Joan doesn't know. G. Totman: Oh, okay. R. Space: I talked to John last night, and he's feeling a little under the weather, so -- G. Totman: Oh, I thought maybe their attorney might come because -- why don't you -- because there's nobody else here, pull a chair up and sit in the middle of the room here because this is not the normal way a subdivision is presented to the Planning Board , R. Space: Okay, G. Totman: And I'm sure you don't know because you've never done it before. And the question earlier was why didn't they put it all on one sheet? V. Rankin: If they'd of put it on this sheet here and then, or just put it where these lots are supposed to be. G. Totman: See, when you look at -- here's one lot, here's another lot, but it doesn't give us any -- Re Space: It doesn't even look like the same scale, but maybe it is. M. Carey. No. G. Totman: No, it's not the same scale . And it doesn't really show us where they are on the farm. Normally, like if you take this thing that Verl's got here -- this is like the tax map -- but we would have to have somebody like yourself show us where these lots are in relation to that. Like, the thing of it is, Verl, they are quite a ways apart, all the different lots. V. Rankin: Yes, but they could have showed us on that thing right there . G. Totman: Yes, they could have. V. Rankin: That's what I'm squawking about. R. Space: Yes, well I can -- everything's on this piece of paper - - G. Totman: Except for the one across the road. M. Carey. Yes, but that's on Dryden's side and has nothing to do with us. G. Totman: That's right, too. That's on Dryden's side . V. Rankin: Well, we've only got two then? M. Carey: Right. This one we -- this is the main -- no, this is Sam Sweeney. So this is on the other side and that's on Dryden's side. We don't even have to worry about that one . R. Space: Yes, that is. That's Dryden's side . G. Totman: Take that one away then . Page 2 of 12 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript February 18, 1999 G. Van Slyke: This one we don't need? M. Carey: Right. The one that says Sam Sweeney at the top. That's in Dryden. V. Rankin: Got rid of that. R. Space: Here's another one . G. Totman: You've got to remember, as you're talking, for the Minutes purposes, we've got to talk about where the land is in relation to something . M. Carey. Well, we can work with the John Sweeney property because we all know where John's house is. R. Space: Which is this right here, which lies right --- G. Van Slyke: Where are we? M. Carey: John Sweeney. G. Totman: This is John's house right here, right? R. Space: No. Well, yes -- M. Carey, It's right on the corner of Salt Road and Peruville. G. Totman: So we're taking that out of 37- 1 - 16. 2 -- that's for her purpose back there. See, she's taking the minutes. R. Space: Yes. G. Totman: Now before we go any farther with that, how much is John going to get? M. Carey: It says here 3. 43±. Is this' going to be a square lot, or - - - R. Space: This is squared right off. M. Carey: Okay, G. Totman: No. When you're saying 3.43, this dotted line means the line that use to be here -- normally on these tax maps -- but they aren't there anymore . Now are you making that line solid now? R. Space: If we were probably to scale here, we're talking here -- this is the lot. You know, it's not very big. M. Carey: It's right on the corner? R. Space: Well that's 50 feet right there is what it says. M. Carey: Yes, you're right. R. Space: 305 feet -- so it's about right. Maybe it is up here. No, that can't be. It's 300 feet which is probably -- M. Carey, 300 feet of road frontage? G. Totman: That's on Salt Road . M. Carey: On Salt Road? Page 3 of 12 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript February 18, 1999 G. Totman: 305 on Salt Road , and 206 on Peruville Road -- wait a minute -- 206 and, plus 179. 38, plus 54. Ron, that would bring you down to about here then wouldn' t it? R. Space. Well, I don't think so because this is just in my reference of knowing this is the property line here and that's the end of that field. And then this is Sheva Gunzenhauser lot. The tree and the entrance to this field is, you know, just after you turn the corner and there's the house . See, this is Jim Kinney's way down here -- G. Totman: That's 15 . 1 -- Re Space: That's a long ways down, see what I'm saying? So his lot, you know -- G. Totman: So what we're saying is John is getting 305 feet on Salt Road, and over on the other road, on Peruville Road, going south , he's getting 206.8. 179 going east, and 54. 9. That's going to be John's property. I'm just trying to get it in perspective , Verl, from what you were talking about earlier. M. Carey: It's just before the bunker. R. Space: It's right at the edge of the bunker. M. Carey: Okay, R. Space: He went right to the edge of the concrete bunker silo right there and there's a 25-foot easement. G. Totman : This is John Sweeney's original farm, and we're talking about what he's keeping. So John is keeping 305 feet on Salt Road and, along Peruville Road he's getting 206, plus 179, plus 55. Okay. That's going east. So that's approximately 3. 43 acres. R. Space: And it's pretty much a squared-off lot. The reason that it's that way in the front is that's the way the road -- it's interesting -- I was talking to the surveyor, but that's the way the State -- that's the highway boundary. It isn't straight. M. Carey: Oh, really? G. Totman: In all sincerity, most town and county roads follow a straight line , and when you're doing State roads trying to figure the distance from the road where you can allow a house, you can't go by the normal, like 75-foot right-of-way, because sometimes the center of the road is not in the center of the . . . on State roads . I know. I run into that all the time. Okay, that takes care of where John is. Now we've got two more. M. Carey: A total of three on our side, and one on Dryden's side . R. Space: Now what's this one? G. Van Slyke: This is Kristin Strickland , V. Rankin: Is that the one with the old house down the road? R. Space: Yes, V. Rankin: That's all I have to know. G. Van Slyke: Where are we here on this one? G. Totman: Now, for the Minutes --- whose house are we talking about here? R. Space: Kristin Strickland , Page 4 of 12 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript February 18, 1999 G. Totman: That's John's daughter. Is this the old house? R. Space: This is the old white house -- G. Totman: This is where Lydia Wright used to live . This would be west of the main house on the other side of Salt Road, west of the Salt Road. G. Van Slyke: This is it then? G. Totman: Yes. Past Salt Road. V. Rankin: This is it. G. Totman: And so we're taking out 2 . 93 acres of the main farm for this particular property. J. Fitch: And these are all coming from the same tax map number? G. Totman: They are all coming from the same original tax map number. M. Carey: 37 dash 1 dash sixteen point two . G. Totman: So, Ronnie, looking at this -- G. Van Slyke: Is this about right, right in there? R. Space. Yes. Off of this lot right here . G. Van Slyke : It's right in here and it's going to come up in kind of a thing that's like this. R. Space: Yes . It encompasses this little pasture there on the western border. G. Van Slyke: Right about here you think? R. Space: For the donkeys. G. Totman: About like that. G. Van Slyke: For the donkeys? R. Space: Yes. It's what's there now. G. Totman : So this is going to be Kris's? R. Space. Yes, J. Fitch: For the Minutes sake , I'm going to indicate that this is Parcel 2 , with Parcel 1 going to John Sweeney, so Parcel 2 is for Kristin Strickland, and the third one will be to Shannon Sweeney. G. Totman: So we can refer to it later when refer to the Minutes. Now this is 2 .93 acres, is that right? M. Carey. Yes. R. Space: Do you want the frontages there? G. Totman : No, we've got them on that. Now the other lot is this one here . G. Van Slyke: Is this long jobby. G. Totman: I'm not sure . I thought I knew where that was, but I couldn't figure it out. Page 5 of 12 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript February 18, 1999 M. Carey: I couldn't figure this one out either. R. Space: Okay. She has the lot -- I don't know if this tax map shows here lot out -- G. Van Slyke: Is this it right here? Shannon Sweeney, R. Space: The tax map doesn't even reflect hers. There's a little chunk missing here . G. Van Slyke: Which way we headed? R. Space: We're heading east down towards McLean . G. Van Slyke: We're going east. R. Space: That'd be Jim Kinney. Let's see, that's Jim's mother's place. So this -- she already owns a little chunk of it and that's what this is. G. Van Slyke: Where is it? G. Totman: What we're doing is we're going down Peruville Road from the main farm house , past the Kinney residence , and that will be the lot on the corner of the old Sweetland property. And it will be 2 . 31 acres. M. Carey: Is this the one that's got the new house built on? R. Space : Yes. They just finished. G. Totman: That little dinky house that's there . R. Space: This is Sam's daughter. M. Carey: Oh, this was Sam's daughter, the one that just got married? R. Space: Yes. V. Rankin: Did they get a permit to build the house? G. Totman: Yes. V. Rankin: Okay, G. Totman: And this is Shannon's. See, the thing of it is, Ron, it's a very unusual way to do a subdivision, because normally we look at -- R. Space: A nice big map. G. Totman: Yes, but it would have them all laid out. G. Van Slyke: And everything would be outlined . G. Totman: And normally it's the people that are doing the subdivision that come to the meeting, not the buyer. R. Space. Interesting sale. G. Totman: So what we're really talking about here is if they were all three-acre lots, probably we wouldn't have any problem because they are all separate individual of themselves, and they are all separated from each other by hundreds of feet. Here , we're talking about one 2 . 9 acre lot, a 3 . 3 acre lot, and a 2.31 acre lot. All the lots are larger than what's required in the subdivision; they all got more Page 6 of 12 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript February 18, 1999 road frontage than is required , and two of the lots already have houses on them -- well, actually three already have the houses on them. But the third lot, which is Shannon's , she's just making her lot bigger. R. Space: There you go. G. Totman : And the lot that her house is on is a legal lot or she couldn't even have got a permit. So, basically, every lot we're looking at R. Space: And she gave me an easement to go in and out her driveway. G. Totman: Well, that's other than us. I think what a lot of people get misconceptions because there is a law saying that in order to build a house on a piece of land, you have to have at least 20 feet of road frontage, or something like that, and a lot of people say well, I've got an easement. An easement doesn't cut the ice because, according to State Law you have to own that land and own that easement to building a house back in -- like if you had a -- V. Rankin: You mean a flag lot? G. Totman : Well, the lot that doesn't have any road frontage . What's it called? J. Pitch: It's landlocked. G. Totman: Landlocked. Yes, landlocked . And with an easement to a parcel out back it doesn't take the landlocked away from it because you don't own it. And so you can't build on something back there. M. Carey: Well, we're not landlocking any of this land . G. Totman: No, no. What I'm saying is -- for future sales, or something like that. R. Space: He's just educating me as to the -- G. Totman: He understands what I'm saying. Because it's a lot easier if you know about it ahead of time. No, we're not landlocking anything. I was just saying -- okay. So we've got three parcels of land taken out of a huge farm, and all three are in family, and they've all got houses on them now . Any more questions? G. Van Slyke: How are we calling this a subdivision then? M. Carey: Well, it's all under the one tax map . G. Van Slyke: So are we really dividing this land up? G. Totman: Yes, R. Space: I don't know if you want to call it dividing it up, but - - V. Rankin: Do we need a subdivision? M. Carey: Yes, oh yes. Because it's all under one tax parcel, right? G. Van Slyke: Okay, it's all out of the farm. Wait a minute -- how about hers, though? Shannon's property. R. Space. It's all out of one parcel. G. Van Slyke: How did she get a legal lot to build a house on? M. Carey: They probably gave it to her. Page 7 of 12 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript February 18, 1999 G. Van Slyke: But they kept it under the same tax map? R. Space: No -- this tax map probably has not been redone since she had her parcel -- I mean , I'm 99% sure that this tax map's just hasn't been reworked to show Shannon's parcel . M. Carey. So they already took it out? R. Space: Oh, yes. That's what this shows. M. Carey: It shows hers as basically just a boundary change. G. Van Slyke: Well , if she already has the property, George, and built her house on, so that would not be a part of the subdivision . She already owns the piece of property. You just said that she built a house on it. M. Carey: But that will be your first lot out of this -- G. Van Slyke: Oh, that's the first lot that they allowed out. All right. Okay. So they've done their first lot. G. Totman: One of the things that we don't know for sure is -- she built the house on it, but was the land deeded to her, or did she just build the house on her family's land? R. Space: No, they had it deeded out or whatever. She's got a mortgage. G. Totman: So she's adding to the lot that she built a house on . G. Van Slyke : Hers is really a boundary change. G. Totman: If there wasn't anything else going, hers would be a boundary change . M. Carey: Right. R. Space. That's already been done . G. Van Slyke: So this would be a minor, not a major? M. Carey: No, it's not major because we haven't got five lots out. V. Rankin: Now are they all Sweeneys, or is the one not? M. Carey: Strickland is John's daughter. V. Rankin: So it's all in the family. Is John working for you? R. Space: Yes. And John's next younger daughter, Kim, has worked for me for a year and a half or a little better. G. Van Slyke: Are you going to milk on that place , too? R. Space: I'm not. G. Van Slyke: But somebody is, though . R. Space: Could happen. It won't happen in that facility. It will happen -- I have some friends, Al and Bonnie. They've been looking to rent a farm since they left my farm, and they've farmed with a couple others. And they have a herd of cows -- about 40 cows and 25 heifers. And Al would like to consider building a greenhouse for his cows and run them through that parlor. But as far as the buildings are concerned -- Page 8 of 12 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript February 18, 1999 G. Totman: If you really look at the buildings, they are waiting to fall down. R. Space: Yes, they've kept the roofs on them just enough to keep them standing. V. Rankin: Don't somebody have a match? G. Totman: I know we had a false alarm up there not too long ago and after they got back they said I hope we never have a real one up here because it's waiting -- if you really look inside of it and look at it, as I recall it, I mean you wonder if you want to go inside of it and work there. So, we have a very unusual thing here. Anybody else got any questions? (Board Member Sheldon Clark arrives at 7 : 55 p .m. ) S. Clark: Hi, I'm Sheldon Clark, R. Space: Hi, Sheldon, S. Clark: I don't know if we've ever met. R. Space: I don't believe so. S. Clark: So can you tell me real quick -- R. Space: Actually, everybody 's kind of scribbled on the map . We're parceling out three lots -- two of them are the main houses to the farm. John's house which is right on the corner of Salt and Peruville, his daughter's house which is the old farm house on the other edge of the west boundary, and then Sam's daughter already has a lot parceled out and she's just squaring it off with the other corner. This is like a gulch with brush and trees, and it's awful. She can have it. G. Totman: Let me -- if you don't follow the same pattern that I'm looking at. We're looking at a piece of property with many acres that the applicant is taking off 3 .4 acres in one spot where there's already a house ; then, in another spot, he's taking off 2 .9 acres where there's already a house, and then the third one in question on this is a lot that's being made larger so it becomes a boundary change. So we're looking at two lots being take off a large piece of property, and a boundary change where there's just been a new house built and making the lot a little bigger. So, as I interpret it, we can look at it as two lots more than what the Zoning Ordinance requires, in most cases more than double what the frontage requires, more than double what the Ordinance requires for acreage, and the lot that's being added to the daughter's lot, which is Shannon's lot, is making her lot more legal than it was before because it's making it bigger. And that's where the boundary change comes in. Does everybody else see it that way? So it really doesn't make it a major subdivision; it makes it just like a two-lot subdivision and a boundary change . It's not something like you normally get. Normally, people subdividing land so they can sell off properties and make money on it and stuff like that, so this really isn't like that. So. I would suggest that we do the Short Form SEAR. You've never been to one of these meetings before, I assume, anyway. We have environmentalists in the State and they require us to do an environmental form on every action that we do . So that's what this amounts to . George is usually pretty good about this. G. Van Slyke: Are you ready? Okay. This is Part II of the Environmental Assessment Form, Board Member George Van Slyke then reads aloud Part II of the Short Environmental Assessment Form. Negative responses were obtained to all questions in Part IL Therefore, it was determined by the Planning Board, upon a motion made by Member Monica Carey, seconded by Member Sheldon Clark, with all members present voting in favor, that the action, based on the information submitted, will not cause any significant adverse environmental impact, resulting in a Negative Declaration, M. Carey: I make the motion that we approve the two-lot subdivision and the boundary change , and waive the public hearing. V. Rankin: I'll second it. Page 9 of 12 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript February 18, 1999 G. Totman: All in favor? (All members present indicated aye .) What you've got to tell them they've got to do now though , Ron, is that they've -- in order to make this legal and to be able to file it, you have to have it signed by the Chairman of the Planning Board, and it has to be on the Mylar copies of the surveys. They are the kind that you can see through . Do you know what I mean? R. Space: Yes. G. Totman: And we have a little stamp we put on them, and the Chairman signs them. These would be okay if you had the Mylar to go with them, but the Mylar is not here. So if they'll bring them over and leave them with April, the Deputy Clerk, she calls me when they bring them in. Then I come over and sign then. Or, if you let me know -- see she's got the stamps in there. I don't have them. Just get them in to her as soon as you can and we'll give you a call and you can come pick them up . R. Space. That's a Mylar copies of the survey maps? G. Totman: Yes, R. Space: Okay, G. Totman: Of each one of them. R. Space: Because I paid for the surveys, so -- G. Van Slyke: They must have been surveyed out, right? R. Space : Oh , yes. And those are probably -- G. Totman: He'll know what you're talking about because I've dealt with him before. And if he's got a problem, just have him call me up. (Idle chit-chat, not transcribed.) G. Totman: Anyway, you get those to us -- get them into April and then , of course, you've got to file them with the County Clerk. (Idle chit-chat, not transcribed .) G. Totman : Anything else to come before the meeting? G. Van Slyke: Next month is on the regular Thursday night, the open meeting, is scheduled for the Sirens deal . So -- M. Carey. If we've got any business, we'll have to -- Joan's got another job , so she can't do what, the last Thursday of the month you said? J. Fitch: The last. G. Totman: Have you heard anything about -- is that public hearing still on? V. Rankin: I suppose so. G. Totman: Okay. M. Carey. I suppose so. I haven't heard anything from anybody. G. Van Slyke : My question is, are we going to have business to come before this Planning Board for the month of March other than the Sirens business that's going to be on the 18th? And, if so, what night are we going to have it? Are we going to schedule it? Because that maybe would have to be done Page 10 of 12 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript February 18, 1999 since Joanie can't be there the last Thursday in the month , it's going to have to be one of the previous Thursdays. And you're going to have to have it advertised if you're going to do that. M. Carey: But we won't know if we're going to have anything -- G. Totman: How would it be if -- see, we don't usually send out the Minutes of the meeting before the Friday before the meeting. Okay? So we tell everybody that they have to have them in before that date . So how would it be if we waited till the Friday before the meeting, and if nothing comes in, we'll cancel the meeting for that month. G. Van Slyke: You can't. That's exactly my question. The third Thursday is already scheduled for -- G. Totman: All you've got to do is make a 24-hour notice . G. Van Slyke: For what? G. Totman: To cancel our regular meeting . G. Van Slyke: Yes, but if you're going to have -- the business has to come to us before that time so we can have a schedule time for the meeting, or you just don't have one. M. Carey: Maybe we ought to just cancel the March meeting and just hold the Sirens meeting. G. Van Slyke: That's what I'm trying to get at. I'm trying to find out if we've got any pertinent business that's going to come before us like the last meeting we had the honey people . But we also had the little preliminary stuff. G. Totman: George , what I was really trying to say was -- the questions you are asking we don't normally know until the weekend before the meeting whether anybody's going to come in our not. So I always check at the end of the week before the regular meeting to see what we should have on the agenda and what not and all that sort of thing. What I was saying was if you didn't have anything for the meeting, we would just cancel the meeting and the Planning Board would hold their meeting on the Sirens. If something -- if we did have something, we could put a note in the paper due to the pre- planned public hearing, we're going to hold our meeting on April lst. G. Van Slyke: Okay, in other words you're saying postpone it until the April meeting. G. Totman: Well, the only reason -- I really wasn't sure , because some people come in and you don't know what the nature of what their requests are, but 30 days means a lot to them if you wait that long to do something. Like, if they come into a meeting, like the regular March meeting, and we requested to go to this or this or this, then that would mean another 30 days until our April meeting before they could come in. And there's things that could be happening. So if something was there , and we had the meeting on April 1st -- V. Rankin: Of course we could meet earlier that night. G. Totman: Before the Sirens thing? M. Carey: Sirens isn't until 8 o'clock. G. Van Slyke : Could we conclude it in half an hour? G. Totman: It would be awful hard to do. I mean, you don't know if you've got anything coming up or not. I really don't like to have two meetings fixed together, but I'm only one member of the Board. V. Rankin: Well, it's all right with me . G. Totman: So if nothing comes in, George, we don't have a meeting. If we do, we'll schedule it for April 1st. Is that agreeable? Page 11 of 12 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript February 18, 1999 G. Van Slyke: Well that was the concern I have , whether, you know, especially for our own timing, in March, we've already got one night booked for four of us anyway, and another night we'd want to know when it was going to be up front. S. Clark: Now we didn't get any Minutes before the last meeting, right, in the mail? Before the honey meeting? They used to always send something out and at least remind me. G. Van Slyke: Well, the early February meeting you're talking about, Sheldon , right? That was a special meeting for the Board that we agreed upon the night -- S. Clark: I wouldn't have missed it -- we didn't get any agenda or anything. G. Van Slyke: Sheldon, what happened was we decided the night we set up the public meeting for Sirens that we needed to get the Planning Board together to take care of the signing of the book and establishment of our chairman and co-chairman, and all of that, and the meeting night, so that was going to be done on that February whatever it was. M. Carey: And we were starting at 7: 30 on that meeting. S. Clark: When did we get the Minutes with that in there? G. Van Slyke: You probably would have gotten the Minutes of the January meeting . It had to be in the Minutes of the January meeting. M. Carey: Well, it was the night that we set up the public hearing. S. Clark: I remember doing all that, but I - - J. Fitch: The eight-minute meeting? M. Carey: You had those right away. V. Rankin: That was in there . M. Carey: And we made the motion to have the meeting the following Thursday. S. Clark: I just screwed up because I count on the Minutes to come and remind me. V. Rankin: You just forgot. S. Clark: Oh, yes, it's my fault. I'm not saying that. I just count on those Minutes coming. G. Van Slyke: Okay, I have nothing more for this thing. Adjournment V. Rankin: I make a motion we adjourn. S. Clark: I second it. G. Totman: All in favor'? (All members present indicated aye. ) Meeting adjourned. The meeting was adjourned at 8*30 p.m. J ;Ee' Fitch 4 Recording Secretary Page 12 of 12