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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1999-01-28 TOWN OF GROTON PLANNING BOARD Special Meeting Minutes/Transcript - Thursday, 28 January 1999 Members, Groton Planning Board (*Absent) Others Present George Totman, Chairman Joan Fitch, Recording Secretary Monica Carey Mark Gunn, Code Enforcement Officer *Cecil Twigg George Van Slyke Verl Rankin *Sheldon Clark Van Travis Others Present Ricky Darling, Applicant; Doug Tehan , Applicant's Partner The meeting was called to order at 7*30 p.m. by Chairman George Totman. G. Totman : This is a regular Planning Board meeting in the Town of Groton, and I decided that we better hold a regular meeting because of the other activities that have been going on on the regular meeting night, and for people who want to have something to do or some action to be taken , it's not a very convenient thing to have them come in when there's a lot of other ordinances that doesn't pertain to our normal activities. So I asked Monica to tell the attorney that we're going to start holding our regular meetings on our own night, and hold the other meetings on another Thursday night, probably the Thursday night before this meeting, so that we can be fair to the public and still hold our regular Planning Board meetings. M. Carey: Except for March, we scheduled our Public Hearing for the third Thursday. G. Totman: And so along with that we don't have Minutes to approve because I assumed that they were approved at the last regular meeting -- Minutes were approved at the November meeting or January meeting. So what we have tonight -- Ricky Darling - 101 Stevens Road/McLean - Special Permit - TM # 38 -2- 1 G. Totman: You are Rick Darling? R. Darling: Yes. G. Totman: You guys just passed these back. Did you all get a copy of these? M. Carey: Yes, V. Travis: Yes, I did. G. Totman: Nobody has seen these until tonight. R. Darling: Okay, G. Totman: So we're a little in the dark. The only question I have is, the tax maps don't show that you own the property. R. Darling: That's being done through a land contract. G. Totman: Okay, that's why then . So , for the records purposes, could you get us a copy or a letter from the landowner so if we approve this tonight, it would be contingent upon you getting something saying that you've got full control over the land , or letter from the landowner saying that this is okay, because we're not supposed to give approval for doing things on somebody else's property. Page 1 of 21 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript January 28, 1999 R. Darling: Okay. I can do that. G. Totman: You know, I'm not doubting your word at all. But we just have to make sure that when we give approval on something, somebody don't come in and say hey, why did you approve something on my land for? R. Darling: Right. J. Fitch: Who's the other gentleman in attendance, George? D. Tehan: I'm Doug Tehan, R. Darling: My partner in the business. G. Totman: Okay, V. Rankin: Is Ron Senecal in on the deal too? R. Darling: Yes, he's kind of our silent partner right now. G. Totman: Now, who's your father. D. Tehan: My father's Earl. G. Totman: Just curious. I used to know all the Tehans. M. Carey: Where exactly on Stevens Road is this? G. Totman: Do you know where Jack Miller lives? M. Carey: Yes, G. Totman: Right directly across the road. Used to be the old Graham barn. M. Carey. And the house sits back? R. Darling: Yes, G. Totman: You're in the modular home that's up on top? R. Darling: Yes. There's also actually a third partner in the business and that's Floyd Wesley, G. Totman: And he lives across the road also. R. Darling: Right across the road. That's Jack's father-in-law. He's our teacher. He's the one teaching us the bees. G. Totman: If you can make him happy, you ought to make us happy. Okay, would you briefly explain to the Board what you've got in mind and what you want to do. R. Darling: Okay, we started a wholesale honey business. We are extracting our honey right out of the hives there at the barn. We've set up a little bit of equipment to pull the honey out of the hives, and we are in the process right now of selling this to different stores. We're in Clark's Food Mart, several different stores in Ithaca, several different stores in Cortland . The honey just came onto the market the first of December when we did a show at the Pyramid Mall. We rented a little cubicle in the center of the hallway down there to show off our product. There was a lot of interest in being able to come directly where we do this operation to buy the honey and possibly be able to see the process that it goes through, where we actually get the honey, and put it into the bottles. We do everything ourselves. We build every part of the hive ourselves. We actually use the beeswax that is a byproduct of harvesting the honey to produce these candles . And we would like to be able to offer these items for Page 2 of 21 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript January 28, 1999 sale right in our local community. So it would be just a small little store. You have a semi-diagram of the building that we're proposing to put this in. It has approximately a 12 by 24 area in the very front part of the building that, at this time, we're using for storage . And, if approved, we'd like to convert that over into just a small little honey stand, basically, but have a place where people can walk in out of the weather. We've looked into the parking aspects of what we need to do, having a handicapped access along with handicapped parking area. I believe we have the necessary room to do what we need to do to abide by Town rules. If we don't, that's something we need to find out tonight. We're new at this and you can probably tell us more of what we need or what we don't need, or what rules we have to follow, and we'll try to abide by them in anyway possible . G. Totman: So you're planning on having a retail there , too? R. Darling: Yes. Just for these items -- the honey -- and possibly be able to walk people through and show them the operation. G. Totman: What's the purpose of having a honey candle? D. Tehan: That's beeswax. It's a natural candle . G. Totman: Oh, I see. D. Tehan: Beeswax is made directly from honey. It takes ten pounds of honey to make one pound of wax. That's how the bees -- they convert ten pounds of honey into one pound of wax. Buzz Brothers Honey. We've already got merchandise going to Colorado, Texas with our candles . We're getting a market going there already. R. Darling: Yes, my mother lives out in the Colorado area and I sent some things out there for Christmas. Some other people saw them which started a little deal working out there . V. Rankin: Whereabouts are we looking here? What page? M. Carey: So with the Site Plan Review it's Low Density, I assume, isn't it? Page 53 G. Totman: I would say it's in the Rural Agricultural District. V. Travis: Yes. M. Carey. Oh, yes, because there's Cemetery Road and they are above Cemetery Road , V. Rankin: Okay, where are we now? Where's McQuaid (?)? G. Totman: Right where your finger is. I just want to make sure -- G. Van Slyke: . . . a little box out in front? D. Tehan: No. Up the road just a little bit farther was a fellow that was doing that. G. Van Slyke: He sold it in five-gallon pails, didn't he? R. Darling: Unless Floyd may have, possibly. I don't know. Floyd may have. I've only lived there, I'm going on to my fifth year right now, and Floyd has run bees there forever. G. Totman: Yes, but he hasn't sold them as a retail. V. Rankin: There was somebody on that side road, there -- Davis Road, R. Darling: His bees got wiped out by mites here three or four years ago and he's since stopped producing. We stopped and looked at possibly buying his ---- Page 3 of 21 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript January 28, 1999 G. Totman: Well, it's allowed with a Site Plan Review and that's what we're doing. Okay, I just wanted to make sure we didn't approve something that wasn't allowed . Okay. M. Carey. Where would you project this parcel to be , alongside the barn there? R. Darling: Actually, what we wanted to do -- the driveway goes here right now with an electrical pole right there. What I want to do is somehow block that entrance and propose a driveway over in here. The barn sits pretty close to the road. It would give a better sight range down the street for people coming in and out if we move the driveway into my yard farther, and this whole square from here over can be turned into parking if we were to block this off so that they can't actually come through there . It's dangerous for me right now. You've just about got to be to the road to look past the barn where it's at right now. G. Van Slyke: So you're saying where it says projected driveway culvert widening" it would be the entrance that you would use? R. Darling: Actually, we want it even farther. G. Van Slyke: You want to come farther over here? R. Darling: Yes, to give us a little more sight past the building. G. Totman: You want to move the driveway that leads to your house a little farther to the north so you have more room on the south side for the driveway for the business. R. Darling: We want that to be actually a combined driveway, but when they come into the driveway they would have the parking all where these lines are, all the way up in front of the building so that they wouldn't block the driveway for us coming in or out. And it would give them a better line of view past the barn if they're a little farther away from it as they go out. G. Totman: You show parking here for at least twelve cars? R. Darling: Yes, I would say a minimum of twelve . G. Totman: That's what I counted on there by these things. M. Carey. Where are your bees at? R. Darling: They're all over from Lansing to McGraw. There are some directly across the road -- some that Floyd has had over there for many years. Actually, almost over on Cemetery Run there's a line of them out behind Jack's house. D. Tehan: We run about 450 hives and next year we plan to run a thousand. G. Van Slyke: You're not hooked up with guy that sends them down to Florida? D. Tehan: No, that's Mr. Caffey(?) , no. R. Darling: We keep them right here. Floyd has had good luck with wintering them. G. Totman: So they are actually going to go into the barn, then, for sales? R. Darling: The bees? G. Totman: No, the customers. R. Darling: Yes. We'd like to make this front the storefront. G. Totman: You've been working on it there? I see somebody out there working every night when I go through . Page 4 of 21 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript January 28, 1999 R. Darling: Yes. Making the candles and pouring honey. D. Tehan: We're in fifteen local stores right now. We may in Byrne Dairy stores; I had a meeting with them yesterday. So we're expanding our market. R. Darling: We're also looking to offer it to the Boy Scouts as a different fundraiser rather than selling candy bars or -- D. Tehan: Also, the Dryden School. R. Darling: We've talked with Jeff Lewis, the wrestling coach over to Dryden School. It's his wrestling team that might use it as a fundraiser possibly also . We've got a lot of things going on and we got a lot of feedback at the mall, people asking us is there any way that they'd be able to come out and buy it right here where we actually package it, and possibly see our little setup. And that was something else that we would like to possibly offer to people . G. Totman: How much space are you planning on having for the store itself, out of the barn. How many square feet? R. Darling: 12 by 24, The front part of the barn is the only actual store part that there would be. The rest of it -- the middle section of the barn, I believe that was sectioned off on the diagram, there's a center section of the barn -- G. Totman: Have you talked to the Code Enforcement Officer yet as to what you'd have to do to make it, bring it, what you're adding on, not adding onto, but what you're remodeling to bring it up to Code? R. Darling: No. G. Totman : Because if we approve this, then you have to get a Building Permit to renovate the building to bring it up to Code -- I just want to make sure you understand that. R. Darling: Yes, we do . Joe Allington is going to be the contractor in charge of all that and we've had an architect out looking over the property -- McElwain. It's contingent upon your approval. And Joe knows the Code as far as what he has to do, and between himself and the architect they can get the building to Code to handle this. G. Totman: Okay. Questions? G. Van Slyke: So the addition hasn't been -- your projected addition is then this dotted line? R. Darling: The projected addition is not for the store. That is more for the -- it's going to be about 90% storage is what it is. Right now, in the room where we harvest, we had to stack the five- gallon pails. Our honey's all in five-gallon pails. And we stacked them in this room as we harvested . This year we harvested approximately 30,000 pounds of honey. Next year we plan to harvest approximately 100,000 pounds of honey. A hundred thousand pounds won't fit in the room that we put the 30, 000 pounds. So we want to have room for that. At this point, we have 800 supers, which are the boxes that the honeybees are in, that are set aside . Those are the honey supers and they go out in increments during the year. We have to add another 2,000 of those supers to our inventory to be able to service the number of hives we project running this year. And that's what that back storage area is for. G. Totman: It's in the area where you really won't see it from the road too much . There's a knoll there, and Skinner lives the other side of it. There's a lot of woods with trees inbetween the two buildings -- between that building and the house next door. Because he has a garage that backs up to that property line. M. Carey, Now when you do the honey stuff, is it a noisy business? Do you have machinery? Page 5 of 21 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript January 28, 1999 R. Darling: It's a centrifugal force machine that spins around and basically makes a sound of whooshing air is all. D. Tehan: Like a washing machine on spin cycle . R. Darling: It spins around and it goes faster and faster as the honey frames get lighter. It pulls all the honey out and it runs down into a drain. Probably it pumps, and that would probably be the loudest piece of equipment that we have . When the tank gets full, we pump it from the extracting tank into a holding tank where it sits overnight and the wax and honey automatically separate themselves; the wax being lighter floats to the top, and then we drain the honey out of the bottom of it in the morning. And the most noisiest piece of equipment would be the pump when we're -- and it makes limited noise. When we redid that part of that room, that was a pig pen and three stanchions for cows when I first moved there , and I raised animals there the first two or three years I was there . But when we redid it we did a lot of insulation and new interior walls and new exterior wall so it's basically almost a soundproof room as well. I haven't heard anything from the neighbors . As a matter of fact, Bob Skinner would be my closest neighbor. He saw us down to the mall and had no idea -- we had a very nice arrangement at the mall -- and he had no idea we were able to do all of what we were doing over there without him knowing it. G. Totman: Questions? V. Travis: Your Environmental Assessment Form says that you need a permit from the Small Business Association. What does that refer to? R. Darling: We're not necessarily looking for a permit -- where we're trying to go for our funding if everything is approved -- V. Travis: Oh, the Small Business Administration -- an SBA loan . R. Darling: Yes, that's what we're attempting to do. G. Totman: Shouldn't you also include there the Health Department? R. Darling: There's actually no health inspection . We don't have -- we're not going to have employees in this store, other than the owners. G. Totman: Yes, but you're selling food. You're selling something that's -- R. Darling: It's not consumed on the premises -- D. Tehan: It's a product. It's just like ginseng or something like that. It's not inspected . G. Totman: Yes, but you're selling it for somebody to eat, right? Have you checked with the Health Department? R. Darling: Yes, but there's no health regulations for honey because it is a purely natural product. V. Travis: We -- we being Patchwork & Pies -- has a letter from the Health Department that we are not under their jurisdiction . G. Totman: Okay. For our sake, if we pass this, that's what I was going to ask for was a letter from the Health Department stating this. D. Tehan: They used to have a bee inspector, which is the gentleman you know about -- takes his bees to Florida for the --- NYS has done away with that. I guess they didn't have the funding or whatever. I guess most of it was just for small beekeepers that don't keep up to date on medications and that kind of thing. That's the only inspections that the used to do. Page 6 of 21 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript January 28, 1999 G. Van Slyke: I'm just kind of curious about the -- some of them on here you say fall flower honey, and some are basswood honey. Is that -- R. Darling: They are different flavors. We have a unique method -- I say unique ; it's unique to most of the beekeepers in the area. We harvest year around . Most of them wait until the fall, harvest it all at once, and they kind of separate on their knowledge. The lighter honeys come in the spring, the darker honeys come in the fall. And that's the way most of them split them. We harvest in the spring. We know what plants they come from . Basswood has a very unique flavor; it's got a bit of a minty taste to it that comes from the basswood tree . We have hives set up to collect from the basswood tree. We harvest that separately. We have a chocolate honey which has a light chocolate taste to it. This comes from a plant called Japanese Knotweed , which is a bamboo plant which most people try their darndest to kill. And the more you try to kill it, the more it will spread. Floyd's 91 years old and he's actually followed these bees to where they're getting the food from. So if it gets a unique flavor, he knows where it comes from. So he's helping us immensely. He's still a very active man and he works with us every single day. He's quite a man . G. Totman: Okay, George, do you have a copy of the Environmental Review Form there? G. Van Slyke: Yes, G. Totman: What this is -- this is a State Law that we have to do a Environmental Review Assessment on every action that we take, no matter what it is. Everybody does. So when we go through these things, it's a form put out by the State . It's not like we're trying to harass you or anything. George? Board Member George Van Slyke then reads aloud Part II of the Short Environmental Assessment Form. Negative responses were obtained to all questions in Part IL Therefore, it was determined by the Planning Board, upon a motion made by Member Verl Rankin, seconded by Member Monica Carey, with all members present voting in favor, that the action, based on the information submitted, will not cause any significant adverse environmental impact, resulting in a Negative Declaration. G. Van Slyke: Does this have to go to the County Planning Board because it's within 500 feet of Fall Creek? G. Totman: I've never heard the Fall Creek part before; I've heard within the roads and stuff like that, but only when I read it in the paper one day it was within 500 feet of Fall Creek. G. Van Slyke: From your place to the back of Floyd's lot, is it more than 500 feet do you think? R. Darling: It's a pretty good distance. G. Totman: Yes, because it goes out in back there a ways. R. Darling: It's probably a couple hundred yards I would say. V. Travis: That would be 600 feet. G. Van Slyke: Wait a minute . Are you asking about - - you're not doing -- V. Travis: I'm digressing. G. Totman: Okay, what's the Board's wishes? M. Carey: I make a motion that we approve this Site Plan Review without a public hearing. G. Totman: The Board member all agreed that they didn't need to have a public hearing. And so you would go to Section 340, I think, the Short Form, and approve the project as presented knowing full well that before you do any renovations you have to get a Building Permit. And if you put up a sign you have to get a Sign Permit, Page 7 of 21 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript January 28, 1999 R. Darling: Okay, G. Totman: And, with this approval, you are agreeing you have at least ten spaces offstreet for parking. And, by the same token, this approval is contingent upon your moving that driveway over so you've got room to get in there to make it safer coming up and down the road because there's kind of a bend in that road there. Does everybody agree to that? V. Travis: Yes. And we need a letter from the landowner and from the Health Department regarding your not needing a health permit. R. Darling: Okay, G. Van Slyke : I'll second that motion. G. Totman: Okay. R. Darling: You say a Sign Permit. Is that if it's a free-standing sign, or a sign on the building, or G. Totman: Any sign that's over so many square feet. I'd have to look it up. Mark could tell you better than I could. G. Van Slyke: He'd be the man to talk to . G. Totman: Mark Gunn is our Zoning Inspector. R. Darling: Floyd had a piece of wood that he worked many years ago; it's about 17 inches wide and 12 feet long, and we want to make it into a sign and attach it to the outside of the building at some point. G. Van Slyke: Are we going to vote on this, George? G. Totman : Yes, just a minute . I want to write this stuff down that we're talking about so we don't forget it. Okay? (All members present signified "aye" ; there were no nays received.) M. Carey: You're in business. G. Totman: No, you're not in business until you do this, and then you'll get a certificate saying that you're all set. R. Darling: And who do we have to register that with -- just bring it to the Town Clerk or -- these two letters that you would like . G. Totman: These two letters -- bring it right in to April, the Deputy Clerk You've got to do all that stuff to get this permit. D. Tehan: Okay. Robert Walpole Miscellany G. Totman: Mr. Walpole had called and wanted to present some things to the Planning Board . I met with him just before I got here tonight, and I'm going to give you, show you -- one of them he had a guy wanted to sell off -- Bishop up on Chipman's Corners Road -- he sold the majority of this one big parcel to Dr. Clark. But he kept a small road frontage strip of 162 feet, which is a legal building lot there, but out in back he retained about 3 or 4 acres that he used for mining gravel operations. It's not commercial or anything like that, but it's for his own business. G. Van Slyke : That's Bishop? You sure that's not Gleason's property? Page 8 of 21 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript January 28, 1999 G. Totman: No, it's Bishop . He wanted to be able to sell this land off up front and leave a 12 -foot space, a strip, down there so that he could get to the land out back. G. Van Slyke: A right-of-way? V. Rankin: That's not enough. G. Totman: See, it's not 20 feet. And we talked on different ways how we could do it -- like the only other way you could add 12 feet to the land that's there - - take 13 feet off of the - -- G. Van Slyke: Well, how much frontage has he got on this lot? G. Totman: 162 feet. To take 20 out of that would only 142 , so he would have to go to the Board of Appeals to get a variance . And so what I suggested that he do -- I mean, I told him I'd bring it up to the Planning Board if he wanted me to, but I said I didn't know how they could come up with anything different than what I did. G. Van Slyke: Well, who owns the property on either side of him? G. Totman: Well, Clark owns on one side ; on the other side it wouldn't be quite feasible because it doesn't fall right. He could buy back some of the land he bought from Clark to make it, but he didn't want to get involved with that. Anyway, what I suggested he do was sell the whole parcel there , including the gravel pit, to these people that want to buy the land and then retain life use of the gravel pit with a right-of-way out through there so that when he doesn't use it anymore, the people that bought it have the whole property. And he thought that might be good to present to the Bishops rather than get involved with all those others. So that's the way I left that. But he's got another piece here that -- this is on -- that would be Salt Road there? G. Van Slyke: Beats me, I don't know. I can't really see . Why don't we just look at them and then we'll -- J. Fitch: Do you have any tax map parcel numbers I can refer to? G. Totman: I don't know the page number. M. Carey: It says Old Stage Road down here . G. Totman: Wait a minute . For Joan's purposes -- she doesn't know where "down here" is. J. Pitch: It's for your Minutes so that you know what's being talked about. M. Carey. This has got to be Lick Street. G. Totman: What this proposal is -- if you look at it where the numbers are right-side up to you , and you look at 21 . 3 and 21 . 23 , this person owns both of those . Okay? J. Pitch: This person -- is that David Withey? G. Totman: This guy owns this lot and that lot. He wants to buy where number two is there and add them to his lot. Actually, I think that would be nothing but a boundary change . M. Carey. If we can figure out where it is. G. Van Slyke: He's got so many scribbles in there. What's this pink thing that's all x'd out? M. Carey: Well, this pink thing would be right across from Gleason's. G. Van Slyke: Main farm -- is that Gleason's? M. Carey. Yes, this is Gleason's. Page 9 of 21 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript January 28, 1999 V. Rankin: No. M. Carey: Yes, it's got to be because that Withey lives -- doesn't he live just before you go down into the dip on Lick Street? Isn't he the guy that has rented trailers? V. Rankin: No, that's not Withey. He's on the other side of the road there . V. Travis: What is the line that is dotted and dashed? What does that signify? Is that a culvert, or a gully, or a --- G. Totman: You mean right below where it says 4 . 83 acres? V. Travis: What is this line that comes down through like this? G. Totman: They're using that for a boundary line . But I don't know what the line is. V. Travis: Did they draw it in there? G. Totman: Well, let me get a set of tax maps. V. Travis: Or, is all of this part of this? And he's x'd that out. G. Van Slyke: Wait a minute. Isn't that pink area the field across from the farm? G. Totman: That's a lot by itself. G. Van Slyke: Yes. He's trying to sell this off across from the farm. M. Carey: Right. G. Van Slyke: Next door is where he had his sweet corn , right? V. Rankin: Now who are we talking about here? Roger? Or -- Me Carey: Roger. V. Rankin: Oh, I thought we were talking about -- Me Carey: That's sweet corn . G. Van Slyke: Isn't the little chunk there -- looks like 16. 1 isn't that what's his name? Oh , great. This one right here . Wait a minute . G. Totman: You've got to get on Old Stage Road. It's not the right map . G. Van Slyke: No. M. Gunn: Looking for 121? G. Van Slyke: We want to go to Lick Street don't we? Knuutila is the guy I'm thinking about. G. Totman : He lives right across the road from Roger. G. Van Slyke: Right. Isn't that his little piece of property right there that's 16. 1 ? V. Travis: 1 . 77 acres? G. Van Slyke: Something like that. Page 10 of 21 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript January 28, 1999 M. Carey. Withey is just either -- is he the house that sets back in the dip? G. Van Slyke: Then there's an open field on one side, this little funny-looking piece here where he wants to buy on. That's where Gleason had his sweet corn this year, right? M. Carey. Yes. G. Totman: See, to answer your question -- G. Van Slyke: There's what -- there's two or three places up through here . G. Totman: The parcel out in back that they want to buy -- V. Rankin: Is number two what you're talking about? G. Totman: I'm upside down now. G. Van Slyke: Yes, where the heck is he? Where's Lick Street? X Carey: Here's Old Stage; this has got to be Lick Street. G. Van Slyke: Okay, here's Knuutila -- G. Totman: Van was asking what that little dotted line was down through there. Apparently its a little stream. That's going to be the boundary line to this addition that they want to add to 21 . 3 and 21 ,23, because the same person owns these two and he wants to buy that little trip of land right in there. V. Travis: Yes, he wants to come over like this and then he's headed down right straight --- G. Van Slyke: No, no, no. He's just coming over -- V. Travis: He's going to come down like this and then down like this. G. Van Slyke: I guess my question is, George, what's that going to do to the chunk here? Oh , he's got fourteen -- what's he got? G. Totman: This chunk is a part of that parcel over there. That's all Roger's. G. Van Slyke: Yes, but, wait a minute. G. Totman: This is just drawn in here ; that's not really right. G. Van Slyke: Okay. But he's trying to sell -- is he trying to sell this whole -- is he going to try to sell this whole thing as a piece? Or is he going to try to bisect it? G. Totman: I have no idea, because all I know is what they're asking about here and here. He's not asking for anything over here. G. Van Slyke: Yes, I know. But what I'm saying is they are both such an odd-looking thing. You know what I'm talking about? How's this going to affect this piece here? G. Totman : Shouldn't because , George, on Parcels 16. 1 it's 361 feet long, so he'll still have over 350 feet there, or so, from here for a building lot. G. Van Slyke : So, okay. So is that 1420? G. Totman: From there to there, yes. G. Van Slyke: Then he could possibly, what, how many can he get in there? Page 11 of 21 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript January 28, 1999 G. Totman: It's 150 feet is all he needs. But that's not in question here . G. Van Slyke: But I'm just saying, what affect will this thing have on this lot here, but I guess it won't have any. V. Rankin: Don't worry about it. Roger will figure out something. G. Van Slyke: Well, yes, he'll be back to us again with something I'm sure. V. Rankin: That will be next. G. Totman: I guess my question to the Planning Board is -- looking at what -- G. Van Slyke: Let me ask a dumb question. Why is he just going by the creek bed? Why doesn't he just take off a square section and add that whole thing onto his property? G. Totman: Because this is what that this guy asked for. This is all the guy asked for was just that. He doesn't want any more than this. M. Carey: I think it's all woods. G. Totman: I think it is all woods. G. Van Slyke: You think it's woods? V. Travis: All of this is woods. M. Carey: I believe so, yes. V. Rankin: It's junk land. Let's approve something. A boundary change is all it is. G. Totman: My question is -- do you agree that it's really a boundary change? We can't call it a lot because it doesn't have any road frontage . M. Carey: Right. So it has to be a boundary change. G. Totman: So I would say that we approve that as being a boundary change . G. Van Slyke: Yes . The surveyors going to go nuts surveying it though . G. Totman: Now, the point is, we're talking about it tonight. It hasn't been formally presented yet. So they want to know if it's acceptable before they go through the formalities of doing anything. V. Rankin: I'd say yes. G. Van Slyke: Yes. I mean, if that's land that's never going to get used any other way, why not? G. Totman: So I will tell Mr. Walpole if he goes ahead and fills out the proper paperwork he can bring it to our next meeting. For that particular parcel. The only other one that he gave me was, just so that everybody knows, this is also Roger's land, and it's on Lick Street. It's a parcel that we approved before. V. Rankin: Whereabouts are we there now? G. Totman: It's on map what? 121? G. Van Slyke: It's got to be up -- wait a minute . Here's the old school building where the building was. Page 12 of 21 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript January 28, 1999 G. Totman: It's right here. G. Van Slyke: They gave us conniptions with that sucker. G. Totman: It's next to the old school building and next to the lot before. The rest of them have all been sold, but they are going to sell this. And I said why are you telling me about it? We've already approved it once. And he says I promised the Planning Board I'd let them know when I was going to sell land off that property. And I just want it to be known so if a guy comes in for a Building Permit he doesn't get a hassle. G. Van Slyke: Now this guy is -- how's that going to go? G. Totman: Well, this map is apparently not up to date . G. Van Slyke: Is that going to go straight back? G. Totman: They are not changing anything, George. We've already approved it once. G. Van Slyke: He's just going to put this in here. Do we have enough - - how much road frontage does he have? G. Totman: But, George, we've already approved it. G. Van Slyke: Yes, I know. But I'm saying you've got 183 feet. J. Fitch: Do you have a tax map number for the record? G. Totman: 121 -- where's that other little map? 21 . 22, part of. Okay, we really can't make a motion until we get the paperwork. G. Van Slyke: Looks like all we're doing is recommending. V. Rankin: That there's already done with anyway. Planning Board Education/Training - 1998 G. Totman : It's just for information purposes. Did everybody fill out this -- did you go to any schools last year? V. Rankin: Yes, I went to one in the spring. G. Totman: Over to Ithaca? V. Rankin: Yes, V. Travis: Everybody did. Everybody went to that one. We had perfect attendance at that one. G. Totman: Then let's write Verl Rankin, -- M. Carey: Because you stood up and told everybody our Town was the only one that had perfect attendance at that meeting. G. Totman: Sheldon was there, too, wasn't he? V. Travis: Yes. M. Carey: And Cecil -- the whole Board was there . And then you and George and I went to another meeting. The one that Lyle came to. V. Rankin: Well, in the last two months we've had all the training we need for everything. Page 13 of 21 e Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript January 28, 1999 V. Travis: On- the-job training. G. Totman: I'm not quite sure what she's asking for here, but let me just read it. "Add anything that are not on this list and sign a verification statement at the bottom of the page . Could you do this now and leave here for Colleen to take back to Board?" Sign a verification statement. J. Fitch: Just put verified by, and then sign your name . G. Totman: Yes, I'll just sign it. V. Travis: That's because our appointment requires training. Setting of 1999 Meeting Night/Time G. Totman: Okay, we're supposed to officially set our meeting nights. For the last few years it's always been at 8 o'clock on the third Thursday of the month. Does anybody want to suggest a change to that, or leave it the same? G. Van Slyke: I would like to leave it the same. M. Carey. What about going to 7: 30? G. Van Slyke: Can we just discuss this for a minute? G. Totman: Yes, G. Van Slyke: Okay, I still think we need to have some consistency. Thursday's been good ever since I've been on this Board, and I'd like to see it remain Thursdays. Again, however, the time element -- now 8 o'clock. I don't know. That's kind of late in the evening and , you know, if you can make it, 7:30 seems to be a time that most of us can make it. V. Rankin: Most of the time, yes. Some of the time , no . M. Carey: Well, that's going to be the same way with me . G. Van Slyke: It's going to be the same with a lot of us. G. Totman: 7 : 30 I would think would make it easier on participants from the public coming. G. Van Slyke: And also for us, I think. V. Rankin: I'm not against 7: 30, G. Totman: Is it the general consensus of the Board that we do it at 7 : 30 on the third Thursday of the month? V. Rankin: How about you , Van? V. Travis: I'd prefer 7:30. G. Totman: Is everybody in favor of that? (Everyone present signified approval with this) . Passed. J. Fitch: Who made the motion? V. Travis: I did. G. Totman: Van and George. Page 14 of 21 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript January 28, 1999 Other Official Business J. Fitch: Do you have to appoint a Chair or an Acting Chair? G. Totman: No. Let's see, what else do we have to bring up before this meeting? V. Rankin: I think we have to appoint our Chairman , don't we? I move we appoint George Totman as Chairman . V. Travis: Second , M. Carey: And when my term is up as Acting Chairman, I suggest we appoint Van. G. Totman: The motion reads, I think, that Van Travis will be the Vice Chair, and we will just leave it at that. Tompkin County Planning Federation V. Travis: Does anyone know - - Teresa Robinson called me about the appointment to the -- M. Carey: To the County Planning Federation. V. Travis: Did they do that, do you know? G. Totman: At their next meeting, I think. M. Carey: Because I resigned off the County. V. Travis: She spoke to me about it. G. Totman : It's the Tompkins County Planning Federation, V. Travis: That's it. That's all on that. Other Matters G. Totman: Being that you set that for the March regular meeting, any other meetings you're going to hold would be on an off-Thursday night. M. Carey. I don't think we'll have one . G. Totman: Whatever. But if we don't have anything that comes over the Board for our meeting, we won't have a meeting in March . Is that acceptable? A regular meeting I'm talking about. M. Carey: Right. G. Van Slyke: Okay, G. Totman: Unless something comes in -- then we'll have to schedule a meeting for March and we'll have to notify everybody. V. Travis: Are we going to meet in February, though? G. Totman: In February we will meet. M. Gunn: You've got one coming in . I just got a call on it today. G. Totman: We'll take that in February. What is it? M. Gunn: Sweeney farm subdivision . Page 15 of 21 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript January 28, 1999 G. Totman: Yes, see they sold the farm off to Space , but they are keeping the house . And there's a couple of land deals they are keeping for sale. So in February it will be the 18th for our next meeting. Anything else to bring up? Mark. Report to Planning Board by Mark Gunn, Town CEO M. Gunn: I've got a few things . Anybody aware of Doug Van Benschoten's business he's got down on Locke Road? V. Rankin: Yes, what about it? M. Gunn: Did he ever come up to anybody and get a Special Permit for that? hL Carey: No. I was wondering about that. I see some cars out in front. V. Rankin: My son bought a truck from him. M. Gunn: He's got used cars going on and repairs and diesel truck repair from his other business over there. V. Rankin: That's all part of Genoa Ag. G. Totman: Marjorie's husband. M. Gunn: Next to Munson's. G. Van Slyke: Oh, that's Munson's old place . V. Rankin: It' s not the auction place, it's the other one . G. Totman: I thought the guy that bought the auction house was doing that. V. Rankin: No, no . G. Totman: He's never been before us at all. V. Rankin: He brings in all these Agway trucks, and my son Dale just bought one from him. It's a good truck. They make them over for farm trucks, and he's got a big construction business going there . He's got everything going there . How come you never did anything? M. Gunn: Well, he's got the Building Permit on it, and it never dawned on me that he didn't have a Special Permit because he was in business before I started working. V. Rankin: Aren't they going to build another building? M. Gunn: Yes. He's got a Building Permit for that. G. Van Slyke: Well, the thing is we never thought about that. G. Totman : Never brought up. G. Van Slyke: Because when Munson sold it, I assumed whoever bought the auction barn bought the rest of the property. M. Gunn: A guy named something-or-other bought the auction barn . G. Van Slyke: I never knew that -- never realized that. Page 16 of 21 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript January 28, 1999 M. Carey: But I think he just started putting the cars out front here sometime this fall, because I just noticed them the other day when I had to come up that way. M. Gunn: About September, August/September, So I've got to make a stop there then . Ward Harrison wanted me to find out if there's a problem with Ward combining both of his junk yards onto one permit because he's being charged during his annual inspections twice for both places, and he's not even using the old White's place on West Groton Road . G. Totman: I wouldn't think there's anything wrong with it as long as he's got one Permit and the Permit designates both properties so he can't say this or this. Just designate what the Permit is for and where it's for. Anybody have anything against that? (No member present voiced any opposition.) Ward Harrison has one that's real active and one that he hardly ever uses or does anything with . And as long as he complies with the Ordinance, he has one junk yard permit for these pieces of property, and designates them on the Permit as what they are, so if somebody new comes along like you did, then it's clear. The Board doesn't see anything wrong with that. M. Gunn: Okay. You're probably going to be getting some people coming in and questioning -- I've pulled a couple of Special Permits from people and have sent out a third letter to Teddy Marchell about his place on South Main Street -- the one he got the Special Permit for a warehouse. The big barn. He's doing a change of use . He's got a Building Permit in to change that barn into a house . He wants to change it into an apartment and he can't do that with a warehouse in it. And he never even used it as a warehouse . So I've got a letter in to him to make up his mind to what exactly he wants to do with it because he never did anything as a warehouse. He's not going to live in it for a long time ; he's got a lot of work to do. You ought to see the plans for that. G. Totman : It's on South Main Street where they put in all those fancy bricks around that barn . V. Travis: Yes, I know where you mean . M. Gunn: I'm waiting for him. He's real cool; I've got no problem with Teddy. But I pulled two Permits—Banas up on, I believe it's John Banas. They have a greenhouse, a Special Permit for a greenhouse. M. Carey: Up on Pleasant Valley Road? M. Gunn. Yes. They've had the Special Permit for two or three years now. They've had the Building Permit for this -- just ongoing for two or three years now. I've had letters sent to them for junk cars, garbage. I've got neighbors calling me that the place is a wreck. This guys not cooperative . M. Carey: They have a small greenhouse now, right? M. Gunn: Well, they're in the process of hemming and hawing and partially putting it up . And they turn around and put half of it over the top of their septic system, and they can't have that. V. Rankin: Whereabouts is this at? M. Gunn: Right just before you start down over the hill. It's on the right-hand side . M. Carey: Remember -- didn't they have a junk car there and we told them they couldn't get their Permit until they removed the junk vehicles. M. Gunn: Yes. I had a letter out to them not too long ago . They had two junk vehicles sitting right next to the road. G. Totman: Now did you send them a letter telling them you pulled the Permit? M. Gunn: Yes. G. Totman: Was it Certified? Page 17 of 21 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript January 28, 1999 M. Gunn: No. G. Totman: I would send it Certified . Because that way you've got proof you sent it and you've got proof they received it. M. Gunn: Well I'm sure they are going to let me know they got it. They'll let you guys know or me known that they have . G. Totman: Sometimes they just ignore those things and say, we never got the letter. But if it's Certified. V. Rankin: Talking about cars, my neighbors, two of them sit right on the edge of the road. An old van and an old car. Baldwin. And he's got another one setting out back. They set just inside off the road. I think it's a crime that old guy doing something like that. M. Gunn: Where's that at? V. Rankin: Baldwin's on Cobb Street. G. Totman: Just south of his place. M. Gunn: The other gentleman I have just completely pulled his Permit is John Beck on Champlin Road for a recreation area that he supposedly started nobody knows how long ago. Never did nothing. These things are all in my LSI books as having inspections done on them every year, and there's nothing there . So I go out there and trudge through two feet of snow in that snowstorm to an appointment with this guy at this -- I didn't realize it was that blue house or I wouldn't have gone to begin with . And I got all the way out there and he's made his way up through with his car, but I trudged through the snow and he wouldn't even come to the door. So I said I'm not going to deal with this. G. Van Slyke: That was going to be fishing ponds and miniature golf and all that. We knew that was a fly by night when he came the first time. M. Gunn: So that's where that went. And I've had a couple of people with MVRs who just completely went right of business, Eric Hewitt and Frank Volbrecht, G. Totman: Eric went from fixing Volkswagens to selling antiques. He's got a nice store . Anything else? M. Carey: Did we change his Permit to sell antiques? G. Totman: No, he built the store in Lansing . M. Gunn: He's got that new Barnhouse Antiques. I think that was it for tonight. Regarding Checklists V. Rankin: One other thing here. I see this thing here . Who issues this Sketch Plan Checklist? G. Totman: Well, April gives it to people that come in . V. Rankin: Well, that's all right for some things. But when a lawyer holds this thing up to you on a Site Plan Review and you've got a whole list of things you're supposed to do, this says right here it's what we have to do . That makes you feel like a . . , .head. V. Travis: That's the other thing. We've got the letter from April don't we that went up one side of us and down the other. Page 18 of 21 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript January 28, 1999 V. Rankin: But this thing here, I don't know. For some things it may apply and be all right for. But when you get into something serious, that's a crock of baloney. Especially when you set up there and here's a lawyer telling you you don't know what to heck you're doing. G. Van Slyke: Along with what Verl's saying here, this Site Plan Checklist and the Sketch Plan Checklist -- the one we saw was on a yellow piece of paper. G. Totman: Mark, this thing they're talking about here . Do you know anything about that, where April got that from? G. Van Slyke : Have you had it there for a long, long time . M. Carey: It's got Mark as Code Enforcement Officer. V. Rankin: It says that the applicant is supposed to complete it. G. Van Slyke: They said that, you know, they were passing them out because that was the guideline for them to do a Site Plan, V. Rankin: Oh , right. G. Van Slyke: But I'll tell you what - - most of us had never seen that piece of paper before that night when he threw it in our face. M. Gunn: I don't think it's anything that she has recently stuck in there . It's just -- she changed the heading. V. Rankin: I don't think you ought to stick anything in there . That's up to them to find out what they're supposed to do. G. Totman: I don't think it's anything that came from this Board. M. Carey: No. V. Rankin: No. I know it didn't come from here . George, what I'm saying is, they shouldn't be telling them anything. That's for the people to find that out for themselves. They give too much information out out there . If you go to him, he'll tell them to read the Ordinance. Their lawyer read the Ordinance , so he knew what he had to do. M. Carey: Well, he's a lawyer, too. V. Rankin: He's smart. I'm going to hire him for my next lawyer. M. Gunn: So what's this in here for? Just for your guys information? G. Totman: It came with this. Now I don't know whether it's just that -- we might be the only ones that got it. Maybe she didn't pass it out. M. Gunn: Oh, I see what you're saying. G. Van Slyke: That has to be a copy of something they got with the application. V. Travis: The applicants wrote this down here . V. Rankin: It was just these ten things here that they say they have to do. M. Gunn: This is what I have that they gave me when I first started in -- on file, in case somebody came here . That's what they gave me . G. Van Slyke: Yes. That's the thing he threw in our face . Page 19 of 21 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript January 28, 1999 V. Rankin: Well, it's the same thing as this. M. Gunn: That's what they gave me from out front when I first started here in case somebody came back and asked for one . V. Travis: Their claim was this doesn't call for a business plan and it doesn't call for some of those things that we were asking. V. Rankin: It doesn't call for much of anything. Something like these guys tonight it could probably get by with , but as long as you're not having a Site Plan Review. But when you hold up a -- Me Carey: Even so, when they first came they said it was just going to be a restaurant and bar. V. Rankin: But then we have to go by that. We can't be asking them all these questions they don't have to answer. G. Totman: Maybe we should find out if that actually goes to the applicant. It really shouldn't . It's our checklist. G. Van Slyke: It must have, though . M. Gunn: What I just showed you is what is handed to them. V. Rankin: They shouldn't be handing it out to them. M. Carey: It should be with us. M. Gunn: This is what they gave me as what they are handing out out front. M. Carey: Yes, but we should have this in our stuff when we receive this information . We should have a copy of this -- not the applicant, but us. So we can do a checklist on this stuff. G. Van Slyke : I agree with you . I think they should -- G. Totman: Wait a minute. On this list you 'll also notice on Number Nine it says a complete Environmental Assessment Form, and then it says there's a note at the bottom that Item 9 will be completed by the Zoning Officer? That's not true . M. Carey: Where the heck's that? G. Totman: Down to the bottom of the page. M. Carey: It's not on the bottom of our page . V. Rankin: Not on this page . V. Travis: It's not on this page . G. Totman: Well, this is what's handed out. V. Rankin: Well, it shouldn't be . G. Van Slyke: Let's see it. M. Gunn: I have no clue where they got that. V. Travis: They obviously have had this in hand because they put that information down there. G. Totman: Somebody did . Page 20 of 21 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript January 28, 1999 G. Van Slyke: The Environmental Assessment can't be done by the Zoning Officer. Where did that come from? M. Carey: But it's not on this sheet, so either they're giving out a different sheet, or -- G. Totman: Maybe this is an old sheet that you got there, because it isn't on the sheets that were passed out. Well, anyway, maybe we should bring that up at our next meeting and come up with a list to give her, and ask her to please don't hand this out until we come up with a list to give her. Thanks, Mark. Is there anything else you want to bring up before the meeting? V. Travis: Well, I think at some point we need to talk about how we don't get caught with our proverbial pants down. Adjournment G. Totman: Can we adjourn the meeting? V. Rankin: I move we adjourn. M. Carey: Second. G. Totman: All in favor? (All members present indicated they were in favor. ) The meeting was adjourned at 89.55 p.m. JoazfE. Fitch Recording Secretary Page 21 of 21