Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout1999-01-07 s TOWN OF GROTON PLANNING BOARD Workshop Minutes/Transcript - Thursday , 7 January 1999 Members , Groton Planning Board (*Absent) Others Present *George Totman, Chairman James Baranello , Town Attorney Monica Carey Kim & Jeff Langer, Applicants Cecil Twigg Scott Chatfield , Applicant's Attorney George Van Slyke Joan Fitch , Recording Secretary *Verl Rankin Sheldon Clark *Van Travis Others Present (As Attached Hereto) The workshop meeting was called to order at 8 *07 p.m. by Acting Chair Carey. X Carey: Let's open the meeting; we 've got a quorum. This is a workshop on making a decision on the application for a Site Plan Review for the Langers. Does anybody have any questions that they'd like to ask Mr. Chatfield? Anybody thought of anything since we got our Minutes? G. Van Slyke : I guess I just would want to make a comment here . This is the first time in the years that I've been on the Planning Board that I've had so many ifs and maybes thrown at me about what the intent is for a particular Site Plan . Usually people that come for a Site Plan Review are pretty well knowledgeable about what their intent, what their reasons for wanting an establishment or a business to be established . And from the meeting last time it seemed like we got, well, maybe we'll do this, if we decide to do that, maybe we might do this, and we had some long descriptions of, well, a type of bar, a sports bar maybe, or whatever. And so , somehow you know we haven't really, as far as I'm concerned , really come down to the fact of what is the real intent here? It seems like they don' t want to tell us, first of all, you know, they're saying we're opening and eating and drinking establishment, but then, okay, well, what kind? Well, it might be a bar. Well, we might decide we're going to serve food there . The Site Plan , the floor plan of the restaurant sort of implies a kitchen being involved , a bar being involved, and a dining room that this is going to be an establishment that is going to prepare food and drink and serve it to the public. That's what it seems to imply here. If that was not their intent, then why did they explicitly give us this particular floor plan is one of my concerns . And so we've had a lot of ifs, ands, or maybes here, and I 'm sort of in a position where I 'm saying, from a farmer's point of view , it's like they're asking us to buy a pig in a poke . You know, you buy a pig and it's in a bag. Well . maybe we'll let you know what it is and then maybe we won' t let you know what it is. Maybe we' ll let you know someday what it is. And so it might be that you get the runt; it might be that you get a decent- sized pig, but, you know, you 're buying a pig in a poke . And right at this point that's where I'm sitting . I'm sitting in a position where I don't know really what they are asking us to approve here . What kind of a restaurant are they asking us to approve? Mr. Chatfield, in the paper November 16th there, is quoted as saying we' re coming for a legal restaurant. But he never said or wants to describe what a legal restaurant is in his opinion . The thing that I would also might say is in the judge's decision on the Zoning Board there , he said that the petitioner's are not the ones that make the decision ; it's the Board that makes the decision . I think that we have to take into consideration that we are the Board here. And we're local people that are going to be here . We're here for the duration. We live here . And , you know, we have to defend our zoning and we have to make sure that we're not being misled here. I think we need to take that into consideration here. C. Twigg: Well, what are we asked to - - what is a Site Plan Review? Could you read that over, Chairperson? M. Carey: You've got your . . . book with you . C. Twigg: Well , I don't have that Site Plan Review. M. Carey: What are you looking for exactly? Page 1 of 12 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript January 7, 1999 C. Twigg: What are they actually asking for? An eating and drinking establishment? M. Carey: An eating and drinking establishment, yes . C. Twigg: So that is what we want to decide—whether we approve or disapprove of an eating and drinking establishment. M. Carey: Right, Co Twigg: And then if they do something besides an eating and drinking establishment, then we have a recourse . J. Baranello: I think the point is that your colleague is trying to make was that he would like to know what type of eating and drinking establishment. For instance , if it were a take- out, that has a certain traffic . . If it's a full-service restaurant, that' s going to have an impact on the amount of parking that you're going to need . C. Twigg: That's right. J. Baranello: If there's alcohol served, that may have an impact on the number of hours they operate , how late they're going to operate . If there's entertainment, what type of entertainment. That will have an impact on the noise that may affect the neighbors . So I think what he's saying is that he would like a little more detail relative to their actual use of the premises so that you could weigh all those factors that are within your Ordinance based upon what the proposed use may be, not some moving target. Not some illusive - - C. Twigg: Yes, so we can make some kind of a judgment, an intelligent judgment on what kind of restrictions we want to put on the place - - if we want to put any on it. J. Baranello: That's correct. So I think what you should do tonight is, if those are your concerns, then formulate some questions that you want answered before the final Site Plan approval . . . C. Twigg: What is the Site Plan Review questions? M. Carey: It's in the Minutes here from last month that Mr. Chatfield said we are saying to you that we are opening an eating and drinking establishment. We simply are not at this point in time specifying the nature of it. And that's where I have a problem with it. Because I think we need to know exactly. C. Twigg: Well , you need to know some . I think you need to know a little bit about it, maybe not exactly what they're doing, but I think we ought to have a guy that is putting a bunch of money into -- I have a couple of restaurants, and I know before we open those up , we have a pretty good idea of what we're going to do there . Before we invest any amount of money into this establishment, we decide well , what are we going to do? What kind of a menu are we going to have? And I think these people know that. They're just not telling us is what it looks to me like . Now whether they have to tell us - - maybe he doesn't feel that we need to know this to make the decisions that we need to make . But I think, like you say, we do need to have some information as to what they're going to do . J. Baranello: What you'd do is you'd want their preliminary Site Plan Review Application to contain a description of their use, their hours of operation - - that would be -- C. Twigg: Yes, I don't think that's asking a whole lot from them to do that . Now he's saying well, their competition is going to know what we're going to do . We're going to pull some stuff over on the competition so they don't know what we're going to do until we get there . Well , I don't think that is any excuse . Because like you say, I have three restaurants myself and I know that's how I would open one. I can't afford to open a restaurant not knowing what I'm going to do when those doors open. And I don't think he can afford it -- or the Langers can afford to do that either, In other words, they know what they're doing—they just don' t want us to know what is up. That's a - - now, and I don't -- like he says - - I don't think we're here to make him happy. I don't care whether he's happy with our decision or not. That's not what we're here for is to make him happy or make the Langers happy. Page 2 of 12 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript January 7, 1999 M. Carey: We're here to go by the law. C. Twigg: We're here to go by the Zoning Ordinance , what that says and what we can do within this Ordinance . And like him, we're not going to do anything illegal. Not if we know it. We don't want to do anything illegal. But we're not here to make him happy either. That's not our big thing in life . M. Carey: Any comments, Sheldon? S. Clark: I kind of took up on George's statements, and Cecil's . I think we need to firm up just what we - - how can we make a decision on an operation that's totally up in the air as far as day to day operations. The only questions I really delved into was -- I asked questions about the kitchen, about hooking up stoves, about how the stoves were going to operate -- on gas or electric heat or whatever -- and they were just kind of leading questions to see if I could get out anything that like they were going to prepare , cook some meals, or do anything like that, and I didn't get very far with those questions. So C. Twigg: Well , I don't know how much that they got to tell us but, as he says, the lawyer there says that we have to have enough information on what they're going to do so that we can make some intelligent decisions -- whether they are going to have traffic in and out of there, how much traffic, what hours of operation they are going to have , if it's going to be an all-night affair, is it going to close at midnight? I don't think that's a lot to ask from them to get these--cause I don't think we can make decisions on it to -- it's hard to make decisions with this much with little information as we have. M. Carey. Right, I agree totally. G. Van Slyke: Okay, let's maybe start another approach then . We've kind of all voiced our opinion about the intent situation. Could we go back and just run through here what they have presented us as far as the paperwork because it seems like that's the nuts and bolts thing of the Site Plan anyway is to know what they're offering as far as the Site Plan, as far as the floor plan, and the actual outline of the map of the Elm Tree property, the sign, and so on . As far as those things are concerned, are we all happy with that information that they have provided? C. Twigg: Well, I don't think that is really our concern , their floor plan , too much. I mean that's up to the safety people , the Health Department, and this sort of thing . I think what we're more concerned -- M. Carey: If it's a restaurant, we do need to know what their floor plan is going to be -- where the kitchen is going to be located , and the bar area, and the dining area - - C. Twigg: Yes, but it isn't that important . I mean the Health Department is going to decide whether that's okay or not, or the fire safety people are going to make sure they got exits where they belong - - M. Carey: Right. C. Twigg: And enough of them - - M. Carey: And they're going to figure the amount of people they're going to allow -- Co Twigg: And they're going to figure how many people they're allowed in there . I don't think those are decisions that we have to make . M. Carey: No, we can't make those -- C. Twigg: We can't make those decisions. The floor plan, I mean what they've got there doesn't look like it's going to complicate -- G. Van Slyke: I'm not saying that -- I didn't say it was going to complicate anything. I just said as you look at them, are they in order? Are they acceptable? Page 3 of 12 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript January 7, 1999 C. Twigg: They are acceptable as far as - - if the roof is going to fall in , we don't know that . We're not building inspectors . G. Van Slyke: Well, that's not the intent of the floor plan either. All we want to do is see an outline of the - - M. Carey: Kitchen , and the dining room, and the bar - - G. Van Slyke: The way that this thing was going to be divided up . C. Twigg: But now we could put some restrictions on what happens within that floor plan . Now we have an Ordinance in the Town now about adult entertainment. And I guess if I understand it properly, this was a question with the operation before. That's why it was brought to court and closed down was -- - J. Baranello: I think you're getting ahead of yourself a little bit in terms of Final Site Plan Review. I think what you should do here tonight is make a determination whether there's any more information that you think you need, whether there's any modifications you want made to this Site Plan before Final Site Plan Review - - C. Twigg: The activities will come in the Final Site Plan? J. Baranello: Well, those -- you can discuss those issues based upon the information that you've got. C. Twigg: Yes. M. Carey: After the public hearing. J. Baranello: I think that tonight would be to -- is this the Site Plan all that you need to make the final decision? Or is there more information that you need? Or is it not adequate? Whether you're going to disapprove it? Those are the questions you ought to ask yourself tonight. C. Twigg: As far as the site is concerned, I have no problem with the site . And if that's all we're approving tonight J. Baranello: You're not approving - - you're not -- tonight what you should do is you should decide whether you need more information , or whether this Site Plan Application is adequate for your final -- for you ultimately to make a determination on , whether you approve it or disapprove it. If there's more information you want, or there's modifications you'd like to see , then that's -- C. Twigg: I have no problem with the site as it is. It's the activity on the site that we're concerned about. And we don't do that tonight? J. Baranello: No, what we do tonight is that if you think there is more information you would like so that you would like to see them modify their Site Plan somehow by describing, for instance -- ask them to submit a description, a detailed description as to what their intended -- what type of eating establishment they're going to establish- - eating and drinking establishment -- what their proposed hours of operation may be, whether or not they're going to have entertainment, whether the entertainment is going to be live entertainment. You can ask them to modify their Site Plan by providing that information . And , therefore , your decision then tonight would be to, for instance , if everything else is okay, as an example , that this would be an approval with requested modifications . And then they would submit the Final Site Plan with those requested modifications, and you would then make the decision at the Final Site Plan Review at the public hearing. So I think tonight you really shouldn't be debating other than asking yourself what more information would I like to have available at the public hearing. C. Twigg: All right . That sounds - - all right, I know where -- Page 4 of 12 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript January 7, 1999 J. Baranello: You may not want anymore information. You don't have to have more information . You may be happy with what you have before you . C. Twigg: Well , I think like the questions that they had as far as the type of eating and drinking establishment, we're going to have to have more information to make an intelligent decision . And what they're going to do for entertain -- what the hours of operation are , and I'm sure the people -- and this is what -- we have some concern about the people of McLean as to -- we got to satisfy them a little bit too . Like he says, we don't have to make a decision that's going to satisfy them a hundred percent. Our decision mostly has got to be on the Ordinance . But there's no real problem in trying to satisfy the people either. S. Clark: Shall we set down a few things that we were interested in , or what? M. Carey: Joan's got most of it. G. Van Slyke : Type of establishment, hours of operation -- I'd really like to go back. As far as the signs and everything are concerned, at the last meeting they said that they were going to repaint them and they would be decent. They wouldn't be anything that's going to be out of the ordinary . M. Carey: Right. No unsightly lights, glaring lights. G. Van Slyke : Looking at the C. Twigg: You got a sign ordinance too they got to abide by. G. Van Slyke : Well, the sign is already there. M. Carey: What we're concerned about is glaring lights, or -- shall we address parking? I mean they've got like 30 spots set up here for parking area. We need entrance and exit signs to indicate where to enter and exit off from the McLean Road because we don't want them coming off of Church Street, G. Van Slyke : Is that what you got? M. Carey: That's what our, you know -- we need some entrance and exit signs . . . . . G. Van Slyke : He already said there wasn't going to be any of that so we really don't have to worry about that. And under map of the site plan they already showed where the emergency fire lane is going to be and where the driveway is, so that seems like that's in order. C. Twigg: I think this sign ordinance here covers the sign . M. Carey: It's in the Minutes. G. Van Slyke : They've already given us this, Cec . C. Twigg: Yes, I read that in there, but I don't think -- see the intent and purposes section of the sign ordinance is to establish specifications for the . . . in the Town of Groton which will permit proper identification, preserve and enhance the visual character and quality of the area, and prevent installations which are particularly distracting or hazardous to vehicular traffic . M. Carey: Right. And that's already stated in here . He stated that -- G. Van Slyke : There will be no glare , no - - M. Carey: No glaring lights or -- G. Van Slyke: All I'm saying is - - is what they presented all right with us? Page 5 of 12 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript January 7, 1999 C. Twigg: Suits me fine. As long as they meet the sign regulations in our Ordinance , they are okay. That's not -- I don't think that's the Zoning Enforcement Officer's deal to go down there and see they meet the Zoning Ordinance specifications for signs. S. Clark: Do we need to do anything on -- do we want to ask for anything for an agenda of their operations as far as a menu , or they don't ask for that, or -- G. Van Slyke: In the Minutes, Sheldon , they didn't have a menu - - S. Clark: Right. G. Van Slyke: And in the Minutes I guess they don't know whether they're going to have -- M. Carey: A menu . G. Van Slyke : A menu , of they're going to have a French chef, or they're going to have a liquor license and open a bar, or they don't seem to know exactly where they're headed with this place . And , you know, that's still my main thing . M. Carey: I think nobody knows exactly what we're opening up here . G. Van Slyke : It's like, Sheldon, if we went over and we bought a piece of property and they came before the Planning Board, and I bought a piece of property. Coming before the Planning Board I say okay, I own this property, I might build a house there, or I might put a go-cart track there, or I might put a garbage dump there . These are things you'd be concerned about as far as the Site Plan Review, You can't come in and ask maybe this, maybe that, if this, if that, if we decide. I mean somewhere along the line there has to be something definitive that says where they're coming from. And I think that's the main think we have to - - if whichever we go whether we approve it or disapprove it, we need to have that information . Because, you know , as I mentioned before , you can 't buy a pig in a poke here . You can't say maybe we'll do this or maybe we'll do that. I'm sure if you were in some Other town and you came in with the same thing you would not get that kind of -- get the Planning Board to go along with you and say okay go ahead and do whatever you want with the place , S. Clark: Shall we put those questions down or -- C. Twigg: Well he's writing them down , He's writing them down now, G. Van Slyke : That's really what we're trying to establish here . M. Carey: We need to be more specific -- G. Van Slyke: We don't have to make that decision tonight, but this could be one of the qualifications we put on our approval or disapproval , It might even be a reason for disapproval. C. Twigg: We have to have this information before we can make a decision is what you're saying, G. Van Slyke: Before they get Final Site Plan Approval, some of this has to be answered somewhere down the line I would think. M. Carey: Anybody have any more questions? George, do you have anything more that -- I mean what we've got so far here . Do you need more of a definition of -- C. Twigg: Well, what has he got there? Read them off to us , M. Carey: That's what I'm doing. C. Twigg: Oh , all right, Page 6 of 12 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript January 7, 1999 M. Carey: We need more of a definition of the type of establishment. We'd like some type of hours, and we'd like some signs indicating where they're going to enter and exit the driveway. Do you have any more? C. Twigg: Well, if they have entertainment, what types of entertainment do they want to -- would that -- well , I guess that isn't anything that's any of our business really . G. Van Slyke: You can't ask them for what kind of entertainment they got -- we're not really looking at their entertainment anyway at this point. We're looking at whether they are an eating and drinking establishment. The question is they are in limbo off and on as far as what they are really opening up here, so -- C. Twigg: Until we get some more definite information -- G. Van Slyke : It's hard to approve something you don' t know what it is. M. Carey: . . . any more questions? G. Van Slyke: If there's no more questions I move that we adjourn this work session. M. Carey: Well , we need to make a motion -- S. Chatfield: Madam Chairwoman, at the outset . . . you commented that you would like us to be here so that if there was any questions that the Board had we could provide the answers to we could provide those answers. I hear questions, but I don't hear you asking us the answers to them . Co Twigg: Then what are you standing up for if you haven't heard -- if we haven't asked you any questions, what are you standing up for? G. Van Slyke : Okay. Mr. Chatfield, first of all this is a work session . The public is invited , okay, to our work session. Okay? If any of the members of the Board here feel that they would want to ask you any one of these questions that's their prerogative I guess. But for the public that is involved here who's visiting us this is our work session. We're trying to put together what in our discussions what we are feeling here . And then we'll make the decision eventually about how we're going to handle this thing. S. Chatfield: Madam Chairwoman, did I misunderstand your comments to me earlier`? G. Van Slyke: Okay, my comments from earlier were this -- S. Chatfield: I'm talking to the Chairwoman . M. Carey: No. I mean basically we've been talking amongst ourselves on this situation, and I suppose we could ask you exactly what type of entertainment -- I mean establishment are we talking about? We need more -- S. Chatfield: My only concern is, I thought, unless I misunderstood you at the outset, you indicated that you were glad we were here because if there were questions that we could provide answers to we'd be here to do that for the Board . M. Carey: Right, S. Chatfield: And the only reason I took this opportunity to stand up was a motion was being introduced to close the work session, and I heard questions being debated among the Board, but I didn't hear anybody asking us if we can provide the answers. Unless I misunderstood your intent and if I did then I'll sit down and shut up. And if I didn't then I'm here to provide the answers that you'd like. J. Baranello: It may be that the answers they want would be something more formal as part of your Final Site Plan . And so the answers may be a part of their decision here tonight that they would want Page 7 of 12 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript January 7, 1999 you to describe , perhaps, what type of use you intend to use the property for, or provide more details -- and that could be part of the process to either ask you or they could ask you to modify your Site Plan by providing that in writing so that it would be available at the public hearing. C. Twigg: Yes, I think that's because really if what is I mean we've gone by word of mouth stuff here before and it hasn't held water. We've misunderstood each other somehow, and I think if we get this in writing and get it down, that's why I - - what are we really going to be voting on - - G. Van Slyke: We're not voting on anything now. C. Twigg: Not now, but we've got to have something to vote on - - J. Baranello: Maybe I can help you out to steer it to get it back on track here . Let's say that the applicant, for argument's sake, was seeking professional offices, seeking to use the property for professional offices, okay? It would not be unreasonable for the applicant to describe to you what professions would be occupying it. For instance, if there was going to be lawyers, how many lawyers; if doctors, how many doctors, the amount of staff that would be occupying -- so that you could weigh the impact on the neighborhood more fully. So I guess the issue tonight is before you should be whether there is more information that you would like as part of their Site Plan to have available at the Final Site Plan to be weighed at the public hearing. So if there are modifications you would like made to their Preliminary Site Plan , that would become the Final Site Plan . And tonight is the time to work together and determine what it is that you would like . And it maybe something as simple as provide a detailed statement as to your proposed uses, hours of operation , and so on . It could be that simple . Or it could be more complicated, more details. Whatever you decide is appropriate to have available with this Site Plan for the Final Site Plan Review. M. Carey: Does anybody have anything they would like to ask Mr. Chatfield? C. Twigg: I think we can write it -- we can put it in a letter to him because that's what would really be make it official, and then we could go back. We wouldn' t have to wonder now was that said this way, was it said that way. It's written down what we asked for and his answers are written down . And I think that is some of the questions we got now is we're kind of in limbo as to what really is and what isn't. G. Van Slyke : I sort of agree with that and the reason that I guess, Mr. Chatfield , I'm not asking any specific questions along this line is that I just don't want to get into this thing where we go through a long expose here of maybe this maybe that kind of thing. If you could concisely put it down for us on paper so that we can have it to glean so we know it's here . It's not word of mouth being said that okay maybe we're going to do this, maybe we're going to do that. That was my main concern here . As I said , Site Plan Reviews -- normally people have an intent when they walk into the room -- what they want to do with this property. And it seems like you and your clients have no such intent. Maybe we'll do this, maybe we'll do that . So I'm really not looking for a long dissertation tonight. This is merely a work session among the people and so unless somebody else has a question -- I don't have a question on this. M. Carey: Sheldon, do you? S. Clark: No . M. Carey: Thank you, Mr. Chatfield . S. Chatfield: As I said at the outset, did I misunderstand you? C. Twigg: You may have . I make a move that we close this work session . M. Carey: Well we need to make a motion whether we approve this or -- J. Baranello: You have three choices here tonight. you approve, you approve with modifications, or you disapprove . Page 8 of 12 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript January 7, 1999 M. Carey: Right, G. Van Slyke : And we have five days to do that, right? J. Baranello: You do have five days to do that, but you have five days to indicate in writing what your decision is. G. Van Slyke: And we don't have to make the decision right now. J. Baranello: You could adjourn and reconvene if you want. C. Twigg: But I think we ought to adjourn with the idea that we're going to send this out and we'll make our decision - - we really can' t make a decision whether we approve it or disapprove it until we get this information back we said . J. Baranello: No, no . All you'd be approving if you approved it would be the Preliminary Site Plan which would then become the Final Site Plan , C. Twigg: All right. The Site Plan looks good we said . M. Carey: The application looks good . G. Van Slyke : What are you doing? Are you moving - - C. Twigg: I move that we approve this Preliminary Site Plan Review - - G. Van Slyke: You can't do this, Cecil, now. This is a work session . Are you moving that we close the meeting? C. Twigg: If that's the thing we got to do . We got to reconvene to vote? M. Carey: And then we're going to have to vote on this within the next five days . G. Van Slyke: But we don't have to do it right here . Co Twigg: We got to reconvene to vote? M. Carey: So we're going to hold another meeting in five days? G. Van Slyke: Well, we had the opportunity to have a work session . But we will then drawn up whether we approve or disapprove this. J. Baranello: You can have as many work sessions as you want within the time described by your Ordinance . G. Van Slyke: We don't have to have an open meeting to write this thing up . M. Carey: Right, G. Van Slyke: And we don't have to have an open meeting to make our decision, so all I'm saying is C. Twigg: Do you want to come back again tomorrow night for another meeting? G. Van Slyke : Well, yes . If you want to come back tomorrow night we'll come back and have coffee or something . J. Baranello: Any vote you take has to be done in an open meeting. G. Van Slyke : Oh really? Well , okay, let's do it then . Page 9 of 12 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript January 7, 1999 C. Twine That's what I said . M. Carey: Go ahead . Will somebody make a motion? We approve this with modifications . Co Twin: Well , I make the motion we approve this thing with the modifications we have written down or going to write down. J. Baranello: Why don't you go through the modifications you would like for the Preliminary Site Plan Review and then -- C. Twine We want more definite on the type of establishment and the hours of operation, the exit signs entrance and so on, and the type of entertainment. No, we're just talking about the Site Plan; the type of entertainment comes the next session. We don't have to mention that this time? J. Baranello: No, no . I think that you would like a description. The description could be the question of whether or not they're going to have entertainment, what kind of entertainment. And that could be part of what you ask for. C. Twine All right. And I think we want to know what type of entertainment they're going to have . J. Baranello: If that's something you'd like to know, you can - - C. Twine We'd like to know that, I think. M. Carey: Do I hear a second? S. Clark: Yes, I'll second it. S. Chatfield: Can we have that run back because I'm not sure I know what things are and -- G. Van Slyke : Okay. Type of establishment, type of eating and drinking establishment. A nice paragraph describing what you're going to do with the premises, your intent. S. Chatfield: Hours of operation . G. Van Slyke : Hours of operation . S. Chatfield: The third one is what I -- G. Van Slyke : The third one , exit and entrance signs -- S. Chatfield: Well, that would be a modification to your actual - - Me Carey: Final, yes. S. Chatfield: And I think they show on the plan you have . Co Twine I don't think they're anything that we should be concerned about. G. Van Slyke : Where -- okay, it shows emergency exits, Mr. Chatfield, but it doesn't show for the driveway on the Cortland-McLean Road . C. Twine That's up to the safety officer to determine those . S. Chatfield: Do you have the same plan I do? G. Van Slyke: Yes. Isn't this the one? You've got the exit, but there' s nothing here on the Cortland- McLean Road . There's no exit or entrance signs. This is the same one . Primary drive . Page 10 of 12 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript January 7, 1999 S. Chatfield: The primary drive. This is the driveway here . There isn't any other driveway on Cortland-McLean Road. That's it. G. Van Slyke : Okay, S. Chatfield: That's it. G. Van Slyke: So you wouldn't need the exit and entrance signs, right? S. Chatfield: No, that' s it. There's only one . G. Van Slyke: Okay, all right. We'll strike that one . And the third one then would be the type of entertainment, there's a description -- M. Carey: I'd like to add to that if there's going to be alcohol served, because that will effect the hours, and the type of menu that will be available . C. Twigg: One thing we ought to maybe be concerned about is if they intend on any outside activity. Will the activity be all in the building or are they going to have parties that will include the outside area. M. Carey: Well on the menu , whether it' s going to be take-outs or served inside . J. Baranello: I think that's covered by their Site Plan , Their Site Plan that they've provided does not show - - Co Twigg: It doesn't show any of that, but they -- J. Baranello: I think it's reasonable to assume that they -- C. Twigg: Well, we've assumed things before . J. Baranello: Well, we can ask that question . M. Carey: On the menu, we'd like to know if they are going to have take-out or not. S. Chatfield: Can I suggest something? I know it may be a little improper but I earnestly suggest this is in the spirit of trying to resolve this matter before it's confrontational. Any of these issues that I've heard you talk about so far, assuming that they're within your jurisdiction which is a point we're not going to proceed, but assuming they are, it's not a question of what we want. It's a question of what you want. If you want us to be open from 8 a.m. until 2 o'clock in the afternoon and no other, then impose a condition on our Site Plan Approval because those are - - M. Carey: We will . . . J. Baranello: I think they can do that once they know a little more about what your use is going to be. Then they can impose reasonable conditions. And I think they're at a point now where they really don't know -- S. Chatfield: Well, therein lies the fundamental problem, and you and I can debate that all day, and the vice chair has indicated he doesn't want to discuss that so I won't get into it in any great detail. I will simply say to you as we have said to you 42 times over what we're going to do is an eating and drinking establishment. I understand . I've listened to what you said tonight. We're going to do an eating and drinking establishment. I believe that's all your Zoning Ordinance requires us to specify. What hours of operation, what limits on our operation are a function of whatever eating and drinking establishments' limitations ought to be . And that's up to you to decide . So you tell us and that's what we'll do. Now, as I said , this is meant in the spirit of cooperation . I'm not trying to be confrontational here . On the other hand, I 'm taking your notes , so whatever you want - - Page 11 of 12 Town of Groton Planning Board Minutes/Transcript January 7, 1999 M. Carey: Is there a second? S. Clark: I'll second the motion . M. Carey: All in favor? (All members present indicated aye; no nays were recorded) . Passed . CO Twigg: Do we adjourn . M. Carey: We need to adjourn. C. Twigg: I'll make a motion we adjourn . S. Clark: I'll second that. M. Carey: All in favor? (All members present indicated they were in favor. ) The meeting was adjourned at 8 :53 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Voan . Fitch Recording Secretary Page 12 of 12 Planning Board Members : As you requested, I have synopsized those conditions that were called out in your workshop session on 1/7/99 re the Sirens decision. They are : 1 . A written, detailed description of the facility's operations/use , including • Planned hours of operation • Type of eating/drinking establishment (family type restaurant, takeouts , etc .? ) • Food/drink to be served (menu items , alcoholic beverages? ) • Type of entertainment, if any ( bands, DJs , adult? ) Hope this helps . Good luck. Joan Sun. , 1/10/99 C4u 07Gfij•�X,4(�/'lg-