Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout1998-06-18 TOWN OF GROTON PLANNING BOARD MEETING MINUTES Thursday, 18 June 1998 Board Members ('absent) Others Present George Totman, Chairman Mark Gunn, CEO Monica Carey Joan Fitch, Recording Secretary Sheldon Clark Richard Butler, Applicant Verl Rankin R Walpole, Applicant/Gleason Van Travis Cecil Twigg George Van Slyke The meeting was called to order at 8*07 p.m. by Chairman George Totman, G. Totman: Has everybody read the Minutes of the last meeting? M. Carey. Not really. We just got them. G. Totman: Okay, we'll skip that until the next meeting. I've read them. G. Van Slyke: I've read them. G. Totman: All the way through, because I got mine Monday. V. Travis: Are they correct? G. Totman: Except for the normal things that she throws in there -- yes, I think they're pretty good. But she faxed them to me so I had unfair advantage. Fred Portzline /Dennis Portzline, Applicant - Site Plan Review - 617 Peru Road - TM # 31 -7-7. 2 G. Totman: The first thing on the Agenda is the Fred Portzline property. Dennis Portzline wants to put a bait shop in and he's not here. Why don't we skip to the second thing on the Agenda. Lonnie Butler/Richard Butler, Applicant - Site Plan Review - 196 Groton City Road - TM # 18- 1 - 31 G. Totman: So I assume you're Lonnie Butler? R. Butler. I'm Richard Butler. G. Totman : You're Richard Butler, Okay. Everybody has got in the mail your request. It's your property, but Lonnie's going to operate it? R. Butler: No, it's Lonnie's property and I'm going to operate it. G. Totman: You're going to use his garage? R. Butler: Actually, I live on the premises now. What it is, is my father bought the house for me and I live here and pay him the mortgage instead of me going to get the mortgage, so it's my house, but it's in my fathers name. V. Travis: Okay. And your father is Lonnie? R. Butler: Yes. 1 1 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting Minutes 18 June 1998 G. Totman. What did your father use to do? R. Butler. My father use to work for the Post Office in Cortland. G. Totman. Okay. So basically, you live there and, for all our reasoning, it's your property except for the name on the deed? R. Butler: Yes. G. Totman. If you've all read his request, and he gave you some kind of a background -- who wrote this background thing on you? R. Butler: That's a business consultant guy that's been helping me through the whole process. G. Totman. It was done in the second person, that's why I wondered. R. Butler: That's the guy through VESID who I have been trying to -- as far as going to school, they sent me out to Arizona to go to school for plastic welding, and he came back and said you have to follow these guidelines, get all this information. And after you get this information, we'll continue and go further. So it's all through VESID which is funded through the State. G. Totman. Just let me ask you a couple three questions that might sound stupid to you . I assume this is your first time applying for something like this, this type of thing. R. Butler. Yes it is. G. Totman. One of the obligations of the Planning Board is to make sure that the things that happen in our community are done according to the rules and regulations of the Town Ordinances and stuff so that when neighbors move into a particular neighborhood, they check what the ordinances are and what's allowed and what isn't allowed in the area, and they rely upon groups of people like this to make sure that if something new is started up, that the rules and regulations are adhered to and followed. Like, if you were asking for a motor repair shop or a body and fender shop, we would require to know how many and get you to agree and it would be put on the Special Permit how many customer cars were available or could be visible on the grounds, and no junk cars would be around, and it would be so that the neighborhood would retain its value. So whatever we're approving, it won't run the value for their properties down . And when we do that, and we get all done, the Special Permit that gives the approval to operate will say the hours of operation that requires noise that a lot of people might here. They may want to go to bed early at night, or something like that, or what they might see across the road as far as junk or whatever is around the yard. This will be put on the Special Permit. Then the Zoning Officer, who you met today, is supposed to make sure throughout the year -- once a year he does an annual inspection -- makes sure that you follow those rules. If you don't, he pulls your permit. I just wanted to explain all that first because lots of times people come in with all kinds of grandiose ideas and then we grant a permit and then, if we don't watch over it, all of a sudden they've got 10 or 12 junk cars around there and this and that and the other thing. And then the neighbors all start screaming and hollering and saying hey, what are you guys allowing over here because it didn't say that when we moved here you were going to allow that type of thing. Just so you know ahead of time what the questions are people might ask, or what you can do and what you can't do, it's because there is an Ordinance and there is responsibility for a Board like this to make sure it's held in line. As long as the Site Plan Review says something like that is allowed in the area, if you follow the rules and regulations, then there's no problem. Okay. With all that said, we do have to do a SEAR review and we will get to that in a minute. Does anybody have any questions of what kind of an operation he's going to have over there? I notice, from observation of that property -- did you just move there? R. Butler. Well, we bought the place September 6th through an auction, and then we've been remodeling it and working a little bit. Yes, like two months ago was our first day actually in the house. G. Totman . Okay, then a lot of the stuff that might be in the yard might be stuff -- R. Butler. Yes, there's still stuff that's got to be cleaned up . I'm aware of that. 2 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting Minutes 18 June 1998 G. Totman: Okay. Because usually when a Planning Board gets something like this they go over in the area and look at it before they have a meeting like this. The comment might be, if we're going to allow more there, there appears to be a lot of debris, junk, or whatever there , is it going to be picked up and taken care of -- unrelated to the type of business that you want to be doing. Any questions anybody? G. Van Slyke: Yes. I guess my question would be if you're going to do -- it says in your project that you're going to do plastic bumper covers and small parts, etc, and redo the bumpers. Does that mean there's going to be a lot of vehicles coming in or going out, or is the purpose of your business just to redo these bumpers and then deliver them to whomever? R. Butler: It will be a pickup and delivery business on my end. I will go to, for example, Jim May Pontiac for a cracked bumper cover. Instead of the customer wanting a new bumper cover, they're trying to save their deductible or whatever, they would call me up and say, "Listen, I've got a cracked bumper. It's off the car. Can you come get it, repair it, and return it to us?" And that's how that will be. It will be no drive-in business. I'm sure that from time-to-time there will be somebody that reads my ad in the telephone book and they'll want to bring a car out. I have a body shop down in Cortland that would remove that bumper cover for me, give me the bumper cover, and I will fix it at my home and take it back to the body shop and have them re-install it. G. Van Slyke: Okay, R. Butler: But no, there'd be no excessive cars around the property. I don't want that to happen . G. Van Slyke: Well, I drove by there tonight and there were six trucks or something like that in the yard. I guess I'm questioning -- is that friends of yours dropping in or -- R. Butler: Actually, I'm partners with a guy that owns a race car and we have a race car and race team that shows up every once in awhile there. G. Van Slyke: Do they work on the race car there, then? R. Butler: Yes, they do. G. Van Slyke : But that has nothing to do with your business? R. Butler: Nope . That's just a friend of mine who lives in a trailer park. He asked me if he could bring his race car to the garage and clean out a bay so we can work on the race car there. I have some money into it and I kind of like to watch where it goes, that's all. Yes, at any given time there's three or four vehicles there when we're working on the car. V. Travis: But those are vehicles that people have just driven there. And when they go home, the car goes with them. R. Butler. Yes. The only thing that's left there is a car trailer. The race car goes in the garage, and the car trailer sits beside the garage. That's the only thing that's left. When the night's over with, my parking lot has two cars in there. V. Travis: So there will be no stockpiling of a mountain of bumpers that you get in tractor trailer loads R. Butler: There will be some pickup of bumper covers, but I believe that I will have room inside the garage to store them so they are not an eyesore . M. Carey: So this will all be done inside the garage? There won't be any outside type of work? R. Butler: No. G. Totman: The type of operation you're doing is relatively noiseless, right? 3 1 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting Minutes 18 June 1998 R. Butler: Yes. G. Totman: How close are your next door neighbors? R. Butler: I've got one neighbor that's right across the street from my garage area. Actually, they're right at the tail-end of my garage. The other neighbors are -- I've got a trailer right beside me and I haven't even met the people that own that, and there's another neighbor on the other side of the street -- probably a hundred yards, equally distance to trailer and the other house . My closest neighbor across the street is the Hinkles. G. Totman: So if we issue this Special Permit, it will be pertaining to the business that we're talking about -- the plastic welding. And if there's any other problems about having lots of other excess cars around, it's a separate issue from he we're issuing on the permit. I just want to make sure you understand that. . If the friends and race car drivers and buddies and all that sort escalate so that it becomes more and more and more of that there, and people start complaining about it, they'll say, "Well, you gave this guy a permit." And we'll say, "No, we only gave him a permit for doing his vehicle welding/repairing; the other part is a separate issue. " And if he's got a problem with that, then he'll have to come back to us. Just make sure you understand that and we understand that. Does the Board understand that? (Everyone uh-huhed. ) As I understand this operation, and I've had a bumper repaired by a person that does this type of work. I hit a deer once with my white 98 and it probably saved about $400 for the insurance company. R. Butler. Did they repair it, or did they replace it? G. Totman: They repaired it. I saw them do it. It. Butler: And it held? G. Totman: Yes, it did. On the car -- he didn't take it off the car. So I know what you're talking about. Couldn't tell the difference. These bumpers crack; they're not like the old-time bumpers. In fact, it had a piece missing and I saved the piece. And I got it in quick enough so that people really didn't realize -- it was a $5,000 damage to my car. I was thoroughly amazed at how he did it. So it does work. But my point is that, well, I guess I was wondering why they would take them off of their cars and bring them to you when it would be so much easier -- because you've got the contour of the car and it's solid when it's on the car -- why would they take it off the car and bring it to you to fix it and then put it back on the car? R. Butler: Because you have to fix it from the front side and the back side . G. Totman : Okay, R. Butler: The reason I'm questioning you about your bumper cover is because the only way to fix it and be able to guarantee it is if it was welded back together. I've worked for a body shop for 15 years myself, and I've fixed them too. But they don't last -- until I went to this school and actually seen how this was done. G. Totman: I guess if we said to you, if we approve this, and we told the Zoning Officer that we approved this and, because of our approval, it would not necessitate having any visible vehicles on the property because of the business -- that's what you're saying. And thinking of the neighborhood, you have two fairly close neighbors right now -- you could have more -- would it be fair to say that after 6 o'clock at night or before 7 o'clock in the morning, there would be no visible outside noise from this operation that might wake them up or keep them up? R. Butler: Visual outside noise? I can't G. Totman: Audible outside noise, not visible . R. Butlers I don't have any problem with that. 4 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting Minutes 18 June 1998 G. Totman: Do you follow what I'm saying? So this would be what goes on the Special Permit. George Van Slyke, would you please? We have to do what we call a SEQR which is required by the governing bodies of the State of New York. It's a State Environmental Quality Review Act, but we have to go through it and make sure there's no noticeable environmental problems with this operation, so these are the questions he's going to be asking. S. Clark: Do you have any kind of gas, cleaning fluids, or excessive amount of that to dispose of? R. Butler. No. S. Clark: Do you have thinners or stuff like that? R. Butler, No. S. Clark: So that won't be a problem . G. Totman: Is there some kind of electric? R. Butler. It's an electric soldering gun. G. Van Slykee Okay, are we ready to do the SEAR? This is Part II of the Environmental Assessment, Board Member George Van Slyke then reads aloud Part H of the Short Environmental Assessment Form. Negative responses were obtained to all questions in Part He Therefore, it was determined by the Planning Board, upon the motion made by Monica Carey, seconded by Cecil Twigg, with all members present voting in favor, that the action, based on the information submitted, will not cause any significant adverse environmental impact, resulting in a negative declaration. G. Totman: Okay, any other questions for this gentleman? I guess I assume that because there are no more questions that you're ready to vote pro or con whether you do or do not want to hold a public hearing, and if you pass it, he has told us that there will be no vehicles on the property pertaining to this type of business that he's getting a permit for, and that he assures us and the neighbors and the Zoning Officer, and it will be on the Special Permit that there will be no audible outside noise after 6 p.m. or before 7 a.m. And he's agreed to that. V. Rankin: I move that we approve the Special Permit with those conditions without a public hearing. S. Clark: I second it. G. Totman: Anybody opposed? (No member present indicated they were opposed.) Okay, that's it. I assume you paid the Clerk for the application, right? R. Butler, Yes, $20. G. Totmant Are you going to put up a sign? R. Butler, I don't believe so. G. Totman: Because if you do, you have to see Mark to get a sign permit. R. Butler, I wish Mark would come out and kind of go over the property with me. G. Totmans In all sincerity, there are rules and regulations about junk cars and that sort of thing. So if you have lots of friends who have lots of cars that need to be repaired -- which some people might call junk -- you might want to make an assessment of the operation and have Mark look at it to see whether it would be something that would fall under another problem. Because some people don't like to have a lot of cars around the neighborhood and junk and this and that, and I don't know what they 5 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting Minutes 18 June 1998 are, so I have no idea of what I'm talking about. Maybe you ought to check with him to make sure you're not going to fall into some kind of problem. Roger Gleason per Robert Walpole - Lick Street - TM # 16448 . 12 G. Totman: At the last meeting we discussed some properties of Roger Gleason's that we couldn't understand, if you'll remember. Robert is here tonight to try to bring us up to date on what we couldn't understand. Before we go any farther, we approved a boundary change last time. Did you pay Colleen for that? R. Walpole: We're waiting for the surveys and stuff to come back. G. Totman: Okay, 'cause I caught heck for that. R. Walpole. The Town will get their money tomorrow morning then . But we might's well do the paperwork once. J. Fitch* What is the tax map number of the one you're bring up tonight? R. Walpole, Tonight we're going to talk about Tax Map # 16- 1 - 18. 12 . There's 61 .6 acres left in this Gleason plot, and that's on the corner of Lick Street and Clark Street Extension, Co Twigg: Where the schoolhouse was? R. Walpole: No. Next one over. His boy owns the house were McMasters (?) use to live. And then Roods bought the two lots north, based on this tax map. And there's a 1994 survey here where Roger was to deed to Jim, his son, the corner piece. But as of today, it's never been deeded. M. Carey, Well, that's what we thought last time . R. Walpole, There's 3.43 acres there and that's got to be deeded now. I've talked with the Feds today, and the lawyers. Now that leaves -- G. Totman: Bob, just for information, you mentioned according to the Federal Government. Normally, when we deal with properties, the Federal Government is not involved . Is there a reason? R. Walpole: Mortgage -- Federal Land Bank. So he wants to sell a lot in here apparently, but after looking this thing over today and studying it, and since this 3.43 acres has not been deeded to his son like it should have been -- but anyway, there's 150 feet of frontage left which leaves 1 .7 acres there out of this 18 . 12 . I won't need a subdivision. He has the right to sell one lot, two lots off this. G. Totman: Well, how long has it been since he sold the lot out of that particular parcel? R. Walpole, Oh , I don't know. I have no idea. V. Rankin: They've been monkeying around with that parcel for years. R. Walpole. The last one had a hearing -- that was a couple years ago -- that 7, 52 . G. Van Slyke: That was like a flag lot? M. Carey. That was that flag lot? R. Walpole, Flag lot. The only thing here is it cleans this corner up, but still leaves 285 feet to get back into here, which leaves about -- M. Carey. We're not landlocking this? R. Walpole: No. But it's going to clean this corner up . 6 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting Minutes 18 June 1998 M. Carey: They'll put another building lot on the corner, basically. R. Walpole. Well, this 3.43 acres goes to his boy, and what his boys going to do with it I have no Idea. He might want to add it on to his boundary and add it onto that deed to lower taxes. G. Van Slyke: I think we approved that, didn't we? R. Walpole. It's all approved, apparently, at one time. G. Totman: Well, we have to make sure it's approved. Because if somebody wants to get a building permit there, Mark has to make sure that it's a legal transaction. R. Walpole: This here has never been approved, that's why I'm asking. G. Van Slyke: Let me ask you a question, Bob . Does that 3. 4 whatever it is acres come even with his son's property? R. Walpole. It does now. It will now. We're going to have to up this acreage here, this 3.43 acres. Otherwise, the only other thing I can do is now, after looking at this thing, is -- see there's 200 feet here. And if we run this line like this, he's got to transfer the whole thing and then this lot apparently was approved long ago in the subdivision . So after looking at this thing tonight from what the surveyor sent back, and looking at these deeds, it was never transferred because that's a previous deed 567 which still ties into this 18 , 12 see . So, what I think needs to be done is this lot stays the same , 3.43 acres, and we transfer 200 feet instead of 150 feet; otherwise, I've got to come back and amend the subdivision . Just by taking a quick look at it and looking at the deeds. G. Van Slyke: Is his son agreeable to something like that? G. Totman : It's still in Roger's name. R. Walpole. Roger doesn't have any choice anyway because we can't landlock it. Because this Parcel C up here has already been transferred to -- I take it Parcel C was supposed to be transferred the same time Parcel B was and never was -- without looking at the abstract. Parcel C was added on here one time to straighten this line up . Because of the barn back here, see -- here's where -- we just transferred that. We know this was added on to Drake's property because I sold it and we had quite a time out here to get this thing straightened away. Parcel C does belong to Jim which makes this line correct, which means that the old survey is correct with 200 feet, see. And the surveyor is now wrong, so this actually has got to be 200 feet -- be about two acres. To comply with the previous subdivision that was approved here and sell this lot here and just draw a line over. G. Totmaw Basically, what we -- see if I'm right on this -- Parcel 18, 11 belongs to Roger's son, Jim. We're approving a boundary change and adding the corner lot to 18. 11 . G. Van Slyke: We did that already. R. Walpole. Already don it -- already been approved. G. Van Slyke: But he hasn't recorded it yet. G. Totman: I guess we have to get the file here to see if it was ever brought back to us to have it signed. Because if it wasn't signed by us, the survey given to us to put our stamp on it, then it hasn't been approved. R. Walpole: Well, it had to be approved sometime because this is transferred. G. Van Slyke: I think we did both at the same time. G. Totman: All right. Assuming that was done, then, we then have this little lot between 18, 17 -- R. Walpole: Which is the 200-foot lot. 7 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting Minutes 18 June 1998 G. Totman: Two-hundred feet of road frontage and about 2 acres of land between 18, 17 and 18. 11 we will approve as a one-lot subdivision tonight, contingent upon bringing the survey map in, and contingent upon what we had before being properly recorded, and then having a survey map brought in showing that particular parcel tonight, between 18 , 17 and 18. 11 . And then we put our seal on it and the Chairman of the Planning Board signs it. Then it will become legal . G. Van Slyke: But it wouldn't be a one-lot subdivision. G. Totman: Well, we've done enough other lots in there . G. Van Slyke: I don't know why we're calling it a one-lot subdivision. Can't he legally now sell that lot anyway? G. Totman: No. That lot is a part of this whole lot out here. So we're taking one lot off of that big parcel. I'll tell you what would happen in other cases. They would look at this thing and say, "You've done enough lots here and there out of this thing. You're now doing a major subdivision. " And I don't quite agree with this type of thing because it's really only selling one lot off a major thing. But so many of the times that we've dealt with Roger, it's always been one lot off of a major thing. It comes to a point in time, and if you read your Ordinance really it will tell you this, that you have to do a major subdivision. But he can't really do a major subdivision because he doesn't know where he's going to sell the next lot. So , in fact, in all honesty, this is why Roger is not on the Planning Board because he started this way back then -- and he was a charter member of the Planning Board -- and they finally said, "Wait a minute . You better get off the Planning Board because you're on the other side more than you're on this side . " The reason I go into that background a little bit is for some of the newer members here that weren't here back then. G. Van Slyke: So why are we forcing this poor guy -- R. Walpole: All I want to do is -- subject to all the paperwork coming in and being correct -- see, we've got to do some percolation tests. G. Van Slyke: He's got to run out of land after awhile. G. Totman : What we've got to look at is more than what Bobby is saying. We have approved things in the past on Roger's thing up there. He's got surveys of what we've approved. Roger never had them recorded in the County Clerk's Office. So by not being recorded in the County Clerk's Office, if some of those people come in for a Building Permit, if this guy over here does his job correctly, and he looks at the Zoning Maps, he says, "I can't give you a Building Permit because you don't have a legal subdivision up there. So what we've got to do is hold up our actions, in all sincerity, and not trying to hurt Bobby and Roger, until Roger does what he is supposed to do. I know the Planning Board has no problem in passing what you want. But what he's showing us is a lot of the actions we've taken have never gone forward and they don't show on this map . So when Mark looks at a Building Permit, he's going to say no way." This is the way the tax assessor shows it. IL Walpole: Parcel B should be recorded on here, and it's not. It's never been transferred for some unknown reason . G. Van Slyke: Is there a major fee involved in transferring the land, or what? R. Walpole: I don't know. It took a couple years to transfer the two lots up on Lick Street. I see at the Court House today when I was there it hasn't been recorded. I'll have to go back over sometime, pull the file, and look at it here . All I want to make sure is that we don't have a major problem. I don't want to put these people through the bank and get a commitment. G. Totman: See if this will make it what you're looking for, Robert. For the record, and the Minutes can so show, this Planning Board would approve that one lot there if everything was recorded, so you can talk to clients and say we have no problem here and we can just go back and they'll -- R. Walpole: The paperwork's got to be done . 8 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting Minutes 18 June 1998 G. Totman: As soon as all the other stuff is taken care of. Does that make sense with the Planning Board? C. Twigg: Sounds good to me. V. Rankin: Has he sold these lots and they've never been recorded? R. Walpole: Everything up there's been recorded, the only thing is that corner lot that's vacant that in 1994 was supposed to have been transferred. That's the only thing. G. Totman: There was another one I thought. R. Walpole: No, that's been transferred, George, and it's been added to this other property. That's why the line is straight coming across this thing to square it up with Drake's. At the same time, or years ago, we did Drake's to square that back. I remember coming in here because I sold that property twice. G. Totman: Okay. Are you all set, Bob? R. Walpole. I'm all set. You've answered my question. G. Totman: Now the transaction we just talked about with Bobby, I think it's the consensus of the Planning Board, for the purpose of the Minutes, that we agree with what he proposed to us tonight, as long as he gets the legal work in proper order. Okay, that takes care of that. Fred Portzline/Dennis Portzline, Applicant - Site Plan Review - 617 Peru Road o TM # 31 "7-7 . 2 G. Totman: Okay, the first thing we had on the Agenda was Dennis Portzline wanted to have a bait shop on Freddie Portzline's property and he didn't show up. So there's not much we can do about that. J. Fitch: Do you want to table it? V. Travis: Where is this? G. Totman: Going out Peruville Road, where the meat shop was. V. Travis: Heading out of town? G. Totman : Yes, M. Gunn: I can't believe he's not here. You wouldn't believe what it took me to get him to put the application in. M. Carey. He is operating, right? M. Gunn: Down and out argument -- telling me he was going to put up a fight with this Planning Board because he didn't feel he should even have to put this application in. G. Totmano Fred or Dennis? M. Gunn: Dennis. He went up one side of me and down the other. G. Van Slyke: So this is in the old meat place? M. Carey. Yes. G. Totman: So if he's operating and he applied, and he didn't come in, then Mark has to go out and shut him down. 9 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting Minutes 18 June 1998 M. Gunn: And he said that if the bait shop didn't take off, he's going to turn right around and sell something else -- I think turn it back into a meat shop. G. Totman: Well, I would think then probably -- and this is relatively new for this to happen like this -- it would be my suggestion to first send a letter out saying that you came to the Planning Board to hear the Planning Board's reaction to your request, and you weren't there so they could act upon it. So therefore, you are operating illegally and if you don't come before the Planning Board at their next meeting, your operation will have to have a Cease and Desist Order. I'm sure Fran would go along with that. And if he doesn't want to comply with the rules, we'll just have to do it that way. But that gives him a fair chance to come in. Does everybody agree with that kind of a situation? (Everybody agreed.) J. Pitch: So do you want a motion to table until the next meeting to allow him to be present? G. Totman: Well, we really haven't brought it up because he wasn't here. J. Fitch: It's on the Agenda. G. Totman: We'll table it until he shows up . G. Van Slyke: I make that motion. M. Carey. I'll second it. G. Totman : All in favor? (Everyone indicated they were in favor.) Does anybody else have anything to bring up before this meeting? V. Rankin: I move we adjourn. S. Clark: I second that. G. Totman: All in favor? (Everyone indicated they were in favor.) The meeting was adjourned at 5:35 p.m. JQ E. Fitch Recording Secretary 10