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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1998-04-16 TOWN OF GROTON PLANNING BOARD MEETING MINUTES Thursday, 16 April 1998 Board Members (*absent) Others Present George Totman, Chairman None Monica Carey *Sheldon Clark Verl Rankin *Van Travis *Cecil Twigg George Van Slyke The meeting was called to order at 8900 p.m. by Chairman George Totman. G. Totman: The first thing on the Agenda is to approve the Minutes of the March meeting. Those in attendance are Carey, Van Slyke, Rankin, and Totman . Has everybody looked over the Minutes of the last meeting (March 19, 1998) . M. Carey. Yes. I'll make a motion to approve them. G. Totman: Monica Carey makes a motion, and Verl Rankin seconded the motion. Anybody against? Approved as presented. What's on our Agenda tonight is going over the, deciding what we're going to do with the cellular towers. We were charged in December to come up with some rules and regulations on the placement of cellular towers in the Town of Groton. We have had many sample ordinances and rules and regulations of the State and stuff given to us. I think the way we did the Local Law on nude entertainment worked out fine when three of the Board members got together and came up with a sample ordinance and presented it to the Planning Board for approval. And when we did that, we turned it over to the Town and the Town Attorney said it was acceptable to him, and the moratorium that was put on in December was for 180 days which is very fastly approaching. If we don't get it done , we'll have to ask the Town Attorney to ask the Town Board to extend it. But we've got a lot of information about other places, two in particular, the Town of Webster and one is the Town of Ulysses, Ulysses being the closest by. I would recommend probably if we looked at that and made some proper changes as it relates more to Groton and the needs for Groton, that it probably wouldn't take too long to come up with now -- we understand it better than we use to -- with an ordinance. Okay, do you want to look at the Ulysses one first? M. Carey. I guess. V. Rankin: Okay. Is this it? I wish they would put one up on my farm because I could use the money. G. Totman: Did you get one for the Town of Ulysses? G. Van Slyke: No, I did not. V. Rankin: All I got was Victor. G. Totman: That was yours too then. I don't know where mine went to. G. Van Slyke: Thanks a lot for absconding with all my good stuff. G. Totman: Well, you weren't at the last meeting. G. Van Slyke: That's right. I was doing other important business. 1 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting Minutes 16 April 1998 G. Totman: In reading them over, the one for the Town of Webster is very much in depth . I think it would overwhelm everybody if we came out with one that involved. But I would be very comfortable in taking the one from Trumansburg and going over it page by page. G. Van Slyke: You mean the Town of Ulysses one? G. Totman: Page 5. V. Rankin: You've got that far? I haven't even started it. Where's this at, George? G. Totman: We're looking over the Trumansburg Ordinance right now. G. Van Slyke: Page 5, where it's handwritten in the margin. I think it says 30 days from the date the application is on file? Is that what that says? G. Totman: Yes -- no earlier than 30 days from ---- see, if we meet tonight and somebody turns it in tomorrow, 30 days later we'll have a meeting. So it gives us time between our meetings. V. Rankin: Now who'd you say -- he didn't write this, but his friend wrote this. What page are you on? M. Carey. Nine, G, Totman: The base of the tower should be at least 300 feet from the nearest line. Yes. What they're trying to do is have the base of the tower far enough away so that if it did fall over, it didn't fall on any dwelling or anything. V. Rankin: That's perfectly sensible. G. Totman: I think you'll find that -- G. Van Slyke: Now who makes -- I've lost it somehow in there -- who makes the application anyway? The guy that owns the tower? G. Totman: Well, as I understand it, George, --- G. Van Slyke: Or is it the person whose property it's on make the application? I've lost this in here someplace . G. Totman: Well, I don't know as it would be in there . But he has to sign on it that he agrees. But it's like getting a building permit. Lots of times the owner of the house doesn't get the building permit; the contractor gets it. But the owner signs it saying that it's okay to build on his property. But sometimes -- and I think you'll find it in most ordinances -- there's a clause in there that if they can prove that the 100 feet isn't high enough to serve the purpose, and that seems to be the best location available, then they can go higher. V. Rankin: It says that here on a. G. Totman: What page are you on? V. Rankin: Nine G. Totman: The tower shall be less than 100 feet in height unless a different height is demonstrated by the applicant as necessary and the coverage is proven through additional height. There's some things there -- now some people set different acres for this. V. Rankin: Five acres is quite a lot. G. Totman: I don't think, you know -- some people go up to five or ten acres or whatever -- if you've got a set spot, and the owner doesn't object and he wants to -- and it says five acres -- in one place, 2 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting Minutes 16 April 1998 some of the ordinances will say within 300 feet of a house, and then in another place in the same ordinance it will say you've got to have five acres -- that's a hell of a lot more than 300 feet from the house. So I think those are things that we've got to come up with that makes more sense . V. Rankin: Well, they should say here it's got to be so far -- okay, down here it says at least 300 feet from the nearest house . I think five acres is quite a lot of land. G. Totman: Well, another thing you've got to look at -- do you want to make them own -- the person who's getting the permit for the antenna usually leases the land off the property owner. I think you have to take that into consideration. One property owner might be on top of a hill and be a perfect location, but he might only have an acre or two acres of land. I think 300 feet is reasonable to have it away from the house, or a certain percentage more than that if the antenna goes above 100 feet. If you can do that in two acres, why make somebody buy three or four extra acres of land when they're not going to use it for anything else? V. Rankin: That's true. G. Totman: Or a farmer might say, well, you can use my field out here; you pay me rent. But he might have a hundred acres out there. But they have to fence it off, and like I would suggest, if you have to have 300 feet or so many feet from the top if it falls over, so many feet away for that, that it should be -- obviously, it's going to be fenced in anyway. V. Rankin: I'm thinking of that one up to Houston's. Of course, that's not cellular. G. Totman: And that's not that high either. V. Rankin: No. I don't know how high it is. It's quite high, but it's not a hundred feet I don't think. G, Totman: That's a fire radio tower. (In answer to whatever Monica asked) Well, 180 days from some day in December, and I'm not quite sure. Probably it was the second Tuesday in December, so it would be the second Tuesday in May. M. Carey: I think we need to ask for an extension. G. Totman: One of the things we've got to come up with is what districts do we want to put them in. M. Carey: Right. I was wondering about that. G. Totman: But if you look at our Town the way the Districts are , most of our -- other than the RA District -- most of them are in like Medium Districts is right in the dead center of McLean, or its in -- G. Van Slyke: Well, you're not going to put them in that kind of an area -- M, Carey: You basically will have to put them in the Ag District, G. Totman: You can put them in the Ag District. Well, that's where the hills are too . We don't have anything except for RAs that are on hills. So we really don't have much choice unless you start picking which hills, and then we might not pick the hills that are conducive to that type of activity. See, what they try to do is put it in line of each other. So if we say you an go here but not there, and where we say here is not in line with what theyve got so it would be advantageous to them, then it's against the principles of the ordinance that says you've got go someplace . You've not only got to allow them someplace, you've got to let them go somewhere where they mean something. V. Rankin: They 've got one in Trumansburg? G. Totman: Yes. V. Rankin: Whereabouts is that one? 3 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting Minutes 16 April 1998 G. Totmaw That I'm not sure. V. Rankin: Because we're directly across from Trumansburg. G. Totman: Well from what I understand, they're putting that up. I don't think it's operational yet. Once they get that up and they tune it in, then they're going to go around Lansing with their truck that the use to pick up signals and then they are going to apply in Lansing to put one up in Lansing where it shows that it would be to the best advantage . Then they'll work this way. There has been some contacts in Groton out on Chipman Corners Road, but this contact was made by people -- not by CellularOne or people like that, but by people that just put up towers and rent them out. They haven't applied for anything yet, but theyve come to the Town building and asked what kind of an ordinance do we have. And that's what they said they were looking at. But that was two or three months ago. M. Carey, Well, why don't you set a date and if I can make it, I'll come to it. G. Totman: George, does your job activity curtail you from spending a couple three hours some afternoon sitting here to do this? G. Van Slyke: Well, what days are you talking here? Thursday afternoons I'm always booked through June from 1 to 3:30 or so. M. Carey, Mondays would be a bad day for me to try and come. G. Totman: How about the 28th, on Tuesday? M. Carey: Next week? Oh, two weeks. G. Van Slyke: What time do you want to do it? G. Totman: What's convenient for the people who are going to be doing it is the best time. G. Van Slyke: At that time, are you going to expect us to have looked at all of this? They are saying Article IV, Section 1 of their --- G. Totman: I would say that if we come up with the ordinance itself and run it by the Town Attorney and have him make whatever changes he thinks, legally or whatever, when the Town Board passes it then it would be attached to our Ordinance as a separate Ordinance, like some towns have separate junkyard ordinances. Or it could be because our Ordinance, I think, is on computer now -- it could be just an extra section to the Ordinance -- put in the Appendix, the Index, and tower will be under the Definitions, and things like that. V. Rankin: They don't have an Enforcement Officer now do they, the Town of Groton? G. Totman: George is still filling in. Okay, let's get this settled. We're going to meet on the 28th at 2 :30, right here, and if we call can go over it and make notations on the ones we've got, and then if we can agree on something and then have somebody type it up, we can call a meeting -- G. Van Slyke: How about having Joan typing it -- getting it to Joan . G. Totman: And have it so we're comfortable with it that night -- have it typed up Wednesday or Thursday, and call a special Board meeting for Thursday night? G. Van Slyke: When would that be -- the first of May? M. Carey, No. The County Planning Federation Board that I'm on is planning on holding a workshop on April 30th at 7 o'clock at the Holiday Inn. They haven't really got the agenda set and I'm not really sure what they were going to have on it, but we can get our training session in. G. Van Slyke: I already did mine. 4 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting Minutes 16 April 1998 M. Carey, You can just simply do another one . G. Van Slyke: I went to the flood thing. V. Rankin: I went to the Sirens thing -- the nudie thing. M. Carey, We went to the nudie thing. V. Rankin: I thought that was a good meeting. G. Totman: Okay, Monday night's bad for you -- M. Carey: Nights are fine. G. Van Slyke: Well, how many people -- will we get a quorum or we don't need a quorum to do this, right? G. Totman : To do what we're going to do on the 28th in the afternoon, no, you don't need a quorum . G. Van Slyke: You need a quorum to approve it? G. Totman: If you have a quorum, you've got to call a regular meeting. G. Van Slyke: Well, if you call a meeting for the 30th of April, would that count as the meeting for May? G. Totman: We still have to hold your regular meeting. You've got a meeting posted that you meet the third Thursday of every month , unless something comes up that you have to do. G. Van Slyke: Okay, let me ask a dumb question then. Does the moratorium end at the end of this month? When does it end? M. Carey: He thinks it ends like the second Tuesday in May. G. Totman: Well, it started -- the moratorium started, as I understand it, the 9th of February -- I'm sorry, the 9th of December -- so you've got January 9th , February 9th , March 9th, April 9th , and May 9th . That's five times 30 is 180 days, so just about the May Town Board meeting. So we would have to have it done to give to them -- G. Van Slyke: Wait a minute . What was that math you just did? Five times 30 -- G. Totman: Five times 30 is 180. V. Rankin: Five times 30 is 150. G. Totman: 150 -- okay, I'm sorry. G. Van Slyke: Well, how many days is the moratorium? G. Totman: 180, So if we get it to them so they got it for their May meeting, then they've got time to look at it. G. Van Slyke: The other question is, do they have to have it to approve before -- G. Totman: No, no . Once the moratorium's over, if there's no ordinance in effect, anybody can come in and put one up . 5 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting Minutes 16 April 19M G. Van Slyke: Okay, what I'm saying now is -- let's go back another place -- when is the Town Board meeting for May? G. Totman: May 12th, G. Van Slyke: May 12th . So if we got it set up for them by May 12th -- G. Totman: We would be under the -- G. Van Slyke: Under the moratorium. But that's not going to give them a lot of time to decide whether they want to approve it or not, G. Totman: That's right, G. Van Slyke: Or they want to enact it into Law, What if they need extra time like with this nudie thing? G. Totman: George, what they could do -- if we get it to them by their May meeting, before their moratorium is up -- if they don't feel they got enough time to do it, they can extend the moratorium for two more months, or three more months, of six more months. G. Van Slyke: They can do that anyway, G. Totman: Well, yes they can. But they'd have to have a reason for it. G. Van Slyke: Well, if they don't have something from us, that's good enough reason for extending the moratorium. I don't know why -- it seems like we're being put under pressure to come up with something in a hurry here, and -- G. Totman: George -- they gave it to us in December to do. And we haven't done anything. G. Van Slyke: I thought you talked about it in March . G. Totman: We did. And we talked about it in February and we talked about it in January. G. Van Slyke: I guess my point is, they did the nudie thing and got it before them and they extended that. G. Totman: That was only because it was decreed by the State that you're supposed to do a study on the nudie thing, To my knowledge, there's been no decree to do a study on anything else . G. Van Slyke: I think we better find out if we had to have a study. X Carey: That's not for us -- that's for the Town. G. Totman: That's for the attorney to study. We got charged just to do this. If we can do it and give it to them, then we've done our job. I'm not sure where you're coming from. X Carey, Well, if you want to hold that special meeting April 30th, I would probably be the only one that -- G. Totman: We don't have to hold it April -- as long as we come up with something on the 28th, we can get it typed up and we can hold that special meeting -- I know I don't want to -- I want to go to that same thing you do. G. Van Slyke: So April 30th is not a date anyway we could have it, right? G. Totman: No. G. Van Slyke: According to you . 6 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting Minutes 16 April 1998 G. Totman: No. M. Carey: That workshop meeting down in Ithaca on April 30th -- G. Totman: That's a planning session for planning boards members like us. M. Carey: Planning and zoning boards. It's a training session again, G. Totman: How about May 7th, then? M. Carey: On a Thursday? G. Totman: Yes, M. Carey: I haven't got any plans for then. V. Rankin: What's the meeting going to be on? You don't know yet? AL Carey: No, they were still working on the agenda. They want to do panel discussions. G. Van Slyke: Okay, so -- M, Carey: May 7th is fine with me for a meeting, G. Totman; Okay, Let's do it this way, We'll meet on the 28th, and if we figure we got it, then we'll set that date then and call the rest of the Planning Board members. Tentatively May 7th at 8 o'clock -- 7:30? V. Rankin; Eight o'clock, G. Totman : Eight o'clock -- Town of Groton Planning Board - Special Meeting, Then if we've got any changes we can make them, And then we can get them typed up and get them to the Town Board for their following Tuesday night meeting. Okay, we're all set to meet here at 2: 30 on the 28th of April, get it done, and I'll get it typed up and tentatively we'll meet back here on the 7th of May as a full group Board. The meeting is adjourned at 9: 15 p.m, on a motion by Monica Carey, seconded by George Van Slyke , Lla� 4 an E. Fitch . Recording Secretary 7