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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1997-03-20 TOWN OF GROTON PLANNING BOARD MEETING Thursday, 20 March 1997 Board Members (*absent) Others Present George Totman , Chairman Lyle Raymond , ZBA Chair Monica Carey James Henry, Attorney Sheldon Clark Jason & Steve Totman *Jeff Lewis Susan Printz-Totman Verl Rankin Jo Diane Smith -Burdick & Friend Cecil Twigg George VanSlyke The meeting was called to order at 89.00 p.m. by Chairman Totman, G. Totman: In the absence of our secretary, we've got to make sure that we talk a little plainer because she's not back there taking notes. So two and three-way conversations don't pick up good on the tape . How about approving the minutes of the last meeting before we get started. Anybody agree or disagree? Those of you who were here. M. Carey: Did we do one in January? G. Totman: Yes, M. Carey: Oh, that was the snowstorm one. G. Totman: We didn't have one in February. So does somebody want to make a motion we approve the January minutes ? M. Carey: I'll make a motion that we approve the January minutes, as submitted. C. lwigg_: I'll second that . G. Totman: All in favor? (All members present were in favor.) Carried . We didn't, in our January meeting, officially set the time that we have our meetings . I guess we're supposed to make it a matter of record that we're supposed to have it in the minutes that we do that every year. And we 've always held the meetings on the third Thursday of every month at 8 p.m. Does somebody want to move that? G. Van Slyke: I'll move that. V. Rankin: I 'll second . G. Totman: All in favor? (All indicated they were in favor. ) Carried. Jason Totman - 245 Locke Road - TM 221-3-3 - Site Plan Review G. Totman: I hope that you have all read your mail and read over the first thing on the agenda, which is the site plan review request for a repair shop for Mr. Totman , C. Twigg: I was going to stop by there and see how far out of line things were, but I didn't get it done . G. Totman: He's asking to have a small engine repair shop and do some welding and minor repair work. G. Van Slyke: Is this out back in that barn? 1 ' Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 20 March 1997 J. Totman: My big barn, yes . G. Totman: Before we go any farther, let's determine what area he's in on that zoning map . We almost made a mistake once. J. Totman: . . .Walpole & 38. G. Totman: Do you know why I'm saying that? X Carey. Looks like Low Density. J. Totman: I'm right here on this corner lot. We own almost two acres. G. Totman: That's in what we call Low Density. The reason I bring that up, Jason, is that there's a chart here that tells what can go into certain areas. We'll look in Low Density and see if what he's asking for is allowed in that area. If it isn't, then you have to go to this guy. But probably it is , because Carol usually looks that up. J. Totmam Yes, she said it was okay. G. Totman: Okay. I wanted to make sure because one night we made a mistake and didn' t look that up ahead of time and gave everybody the approval and we found out later we were wrong . G. Van Slyke: Would this come under home occupation? J. Totman: That's what she said it would come under. G. Van Slyke: Which is on 52 ; that's one possibility. G. Totman: Yes . Are you planning on having customers coming and leave their cars? J. Totman: No. Basically, what we plan to do is as is -- lawnmower repairs, lawn & garden repairs, and small , minor welding on that machinery. G. Totman: Not cars? J. Totman: No cars. No large vehicles. I have parking spots enough for 25 cars in my driveway without anyone getting pinned in and still have room for everybody to get back out. We do not foresee that; we're not having a store . We're not putting any parts shelves up or anything. We're basically doing repairs. We're basically doing the repairs, not stocking anything, and not running any store. I'd just like to be able to put a sign out and advertise and collect some more business. Hopefully we'll collect some more business and it will turn out well . G. Totman: Okay. Well, then, according to this, -- G. Van Slyke: It depends on what you want to call it. G. Totman: Are you going to have employees? J. Totman: No . G. Totman: Because that makes a difference . J. Totman: It's going to be family-run -- it's going to be my wife , myself, and my brother. G. Totman: Let me show you what I'm looking at just so you understand what I'm saying . See, first of all, it goes with that map up on the wall there. Then it tells here what the Land Use Activity is, and it tells it down here, if it's listed here -- you go down through here and you get to Home Occupations, and it says if you've got employees, they're not permitted. Home occupations, employees 2 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 20 March 1997 permitted, are not allowed in the Low Density area. That's why I asked you. I just wanted you to see what I was talking about. C. Twigg: No employees? J. Totman: No employees at all. G. Totman: Okay. We're on firm footing there. Any more questions, you guys? What the normal procedure is on this is, because I don't think you've ever done this before , the Planning Board is given the charge to sort of direct the activities of the Town and follow the plan that's been passed by the Town Board. But to make sure that whatever is being requested is there within it so that -- like , a lot of people will come in and want to buy a piece of property and they'll ask what's allowed in the area. And some people will buy or not buy a house because of what is allowed in the area. And if we allow something to happen that's not in the Zoning Ordinance, and sometimes you have public hearings and sometimes you don't -- it depends on how close the neighbors are -- whatever effect it 's going to have on the adjacent neighbors. So like if you lived there and somebody was going to start a body shop next door, you'd like to know about it ahead of time, or whatever. And this is what this is all about. And, normally, we talk about -- it depends on what the nature of the request is; like if it's a body and fender shop which makes more noise than some places do because they're doing a lot of different activities , and it makes a difference how close the adjacent properties are and things like that, so you might set how many cars you can have in the yard at one time , or how many customer cars, or whatever, or motorcycles or whatever it might be. We might say if it's going to be a noise after 6 o'clock at night it can't be noise enough to be heard by the neighbors so it wouldn't affect them -- going to bed at 7: 30 at night or something like that. But if it's going to be something that's going to be mostly done on the inside , and the noise factor isn't there -- normally, you get a lot more activity if you're having a used car lot or something like that than you would with just a small engine repair. Questions? There's no real close neighbor? How about Doty's -- they live on that road? J. Totman: Doty's live down the road about a mile . Female. Up on the hill . G. Van Slyke: The closest one is Carl Cotd and his sister, right? J. Totman: She moved out. That trailer's empty now. G. Totman: But that trailer's more than a couple hundred feet away from you? J. Totman: Yes -- that's a hundred yards. G. Van Slyke: At least . G. Totman: Yes, that was Glenn Munson's wife's. J. Totman: Right , Ce TWIM She's moved out now? J. Totman: The last I knew there was no activity in the trailer at all . She's got another place somewhere downtown . Ce Twigg: We went through a lot of hassle for that -- a lot of effort we put in to getting that thing straightened out. J. Totman: Tonight was the first night I 've seen lights on down there, but there's still no curtains up. She took a lot of carloads of stuff out of there . What happened, I don't know. I haven' t seen Carl in a while. G. Totman: And there's no neighbors on the Groton side of you . 3 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 20 March 1997 J. Totman: No. The closest one is Van Benschoten -- next one down the road -- and that' s 150 yards or more. G. Totman: That's across the road . J. Totman: Yes. M. Carey: I don't see a problem with it. G. Totman: Other than the name, huh? M. Carey: Right. C. TWIM It just looks suspicious, that's all. G. Van Slyke: Do you drive lawn tractors like he drives lawn tractors? J. Totman: We don't do anything like that; I can see five feet in front of me. G. Totman: Well . M. Carey: I make a motion -- G. Totman: Well, before you do that, you want to make sure that -- G. Van Slyke: There's no Federal restrictions, like on getting rid of the oil and -- CO Twigg: That's not our business. G. Totman: There is, but that's not our -- if it was a car repair, it would be contingent upon getting their State license . But you don't need a State license for this. G. Van Slyke: We don't have to do anything with the sign, actually, do we? G. Totman: No. He has to get a sign permit from George. J. Totman: That's been accomplished -- we're just waiting on this approval from the Board and we're going to rock and roll . C. Twigg: You've got to wait until the grass starts growing if you're going to fix lawnmowers . G. Van Slyke: A guy was riding his lawnmower right down the road today. V. Rankin: Well, I don't see anything wrong with it. G. Totman: Okay. Do you want to forego the public hearing, or do you think there's a need of a public hearing? G. Van Slyke: Don't we need to get this motion first? G. Totman: Well, she was going to make a motion to pass it. C. TWigg: We got to do the SEQR G. Totman: Yes. George has got to do that yet. Let me explain this first. Every action a board like this makes, different than George Senter, the Zoning Officer, his is a ministerial action and ours isn't, so we have to do what we call a SEQR It's a State Environmental Quality Review. And on small projects, we have what we call a Short Form. If you were doing a big project, like putting in a Tops Market or something, then you'd have to do the Long Form and usually those things take two or three 4 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 20 March 1997 months, or longer to get through all the gibble-garbles and everything else. So the questions we ask here are all a State-requested thing. J. Totman: Okay, G. Van Slyke: Ready? G. Totman: Ready, Board Member George Van Slyke then reads aloud Part 11 of the Short Environmental Assessment Form. Negative responses were obtained to all questions in Part II. Therefore, it was determined by the Planning Board, upon the motion made by Verl Rankin, seconded by Cecil Twigg, with all members present voting in favor, that the action, based on the information submitted, will not cause any significant adverse environmental impact, resulting in a negative declaration, G. Totman: Now, the motion . V. Rankin: I 'll make the motion . M. Carey: I'll second it, then. G. Totman: All in favor of the motion to approve of the request of Jason Totman for the Site Plan Review to operate a small- engine repair shop with no outside activity? (All members present indicated they were in favor. ) G. Van Slyke: Are you going to forego the public hearing, there, Zippy? G. Totman: Well , that's why I was asking for it -- I really wanted that in part of the motion. G. Van Slyke: I make the motion that we forego the public hearing. V. Rankin: Second . G. Totman: Everybody in favor9 or against? (All indicated they were in favor. ) Basically what you've got to do now is get your sign permit from George. J. Totman: That's almost completed . G. Totman: And then what happens is -- when things like this are approved, the Enforcement Officer comes around at least once a year to inspect these businesses to make sure they follow all the ordinances, like not too much junk out in the yard , and all that sort of thing. He does it every spring, In fact, he's taking a tour in about two weeks with the Town Board, looking to see that everyone is complying with the ordinances. Once there's a business involved , where they know there's activity, then he makes a special point as part of his job to come out -- so if you see him snooping around, that's what he's doing -- so the neighbors don't complain or whatever. That's it. You said you had another question . J. Totman: Well, yes, you said no outside activity. Does that mean I can't take a lawnmower out and test it? G. Totman: No, no. What we meant was -- a lot of people when they have a place like this , they have a lot of engines -- I was thinking more of cars than of lawnmowers -- parked around outside and all of a sudden it starts to become a junkyard . And she wouldn't allow that anyway. But you have to state that. That's why I was saying that George comes around and, if that happens, you'll be getting a nasty note from him in the mail. Okay? See you. 5 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 20 March 1997 Michael Salerno - 210 Old Peruville Road - TM # 35- 1-21 .2 G. Totman: The next thing on the agenda is a boundary change for Michael Salerno. M. Carey. When did they subdivide this property? J. Henry±: 1990. G. Totman: I got a copy; this is what we approved in 1990, This is Peruville Road here -- 34B. Now he is asking for a boundary change -- coming off of 34B -- he wants to extend the back part of that lot down to here. The person that wants to buy this wants this part right here. Now we don't have to do a SEAR on this one because we've already done it on the total parcel. Actually, all he wants is to make one lot bigger. J. Henry: Yes. Lot #3 will extend all the way to Lot #4, instead of as you see on the map. V. Rankin: Where is this lot? Is this the one on the corner`. J. Henry: No -- your corner, the Old Peruville Road comes down -- the corner's about at your pocket there . C. Twigg: John Kocis' barn is about where your elbow is. Right? J. Henry: Let me think. What side of the road is he on? G. Totman: Over there . The other side of the road . J. Henry: Yes, because he owns over here. V. Rankin: Okay. G. Van Slyke: Mary Adams isn't quite on that? V. Rankin: No. I know where that is. G. Totman: Bear with me a minute. Michael Salerno is on 210 Old Peruville Road, TM # 35- 1 -21 . 2. and they're adding to the previously approved Lot 3 -- a boundary change. G. Van Slyke: Are they just trying to get perfectly square lots, or try to get as good a perfect lot as they could, or what? J. Henry: It does make nice square lots up here, but it actually -- V. Rankin: How come you didn't do that better, Jim? J. Henry: Because I didn't lay it out. I'm going to blame the surveyor, I think. G. Van Slyke: I don't see anything wrong with that. V. nankin. No . G. Van Slyke: You're not going to landlock anything. M. Carey: Actually, he's probably making better use of it. G. Totman: That's the way I look at it. It takes that gap out and makes better use of the land. C. Twlgg: Do it. 6 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 20 March 1997 G. Totman: Remember what I told you at the beginning of the meeting? The "girl" isn't here tonight and we've got to talk into the tape . G. Van Slyke: Well, are you going to make a motion? Is that what you're saying? M. Carey: Make a motion . Co Twigg: I would make a motion that we approve the boundary change for the extension of Lot 3 of the previously approved subdivision to have it connect to Lot 4 of Tax Parcel 35- 1 -21 . 2 . J. Henry: To extend it to Lot 4, not attach it to Lot 4. G. Totman: I said extending it to Lot 4 . I'm doing this just because the "girl" didn't show up tonight. You better be here next week. M. Carey: I'll second the motion . G. Totman: All in favor? (Everyone indicated they were in favor.) I think this really made a lot of sense and it's better use of the land. J. Henry: We don't need to do anything? G. Totman: No, that's it. We're user-friendly. Is there anybody else out their waiting? Man: No . Jo Diane Smith-Burdick - 40 Sharpsteen Road - TM #35=1=24o 112 - Minor Flag Lot Subdivision G. Totman: Okay, now -- the reason that Lyle's here is because this couple that's here wants to divide their land to make a spot for one of their children to have a trailer on, but they want to have a separate parcel of their land . And they didn't have enough road frontage to have two parcels, but they have enough acreage in the back to create a flag lot. They were originally directed to go to the ZBA and ask for a variance, which they did . And you all got a copy of the ZBA's ruling. It falls under the Zoning Ordinance under Flag Lots, and what we've got to look at in the Zoning Ordinance is to see if it meets the requirements of a flag lot. Hopefully, she's got something to show you . Am I right, so far? J. Smith-Burdick: Yes. G. Totman: Am I explaining that right? J. Smith-Burdick: Yes , G. Totman: She's got enough land and the trailer will be back far enough so it won't be in the so-called flag pole . And she's got at least two acres of land that will go with this piece of property. So , any questions from anybody? Here we will have to do the SEAR on this one. Am I doing all right, Lyle , so far? I haven't really seen this yet. L. Raymond: They made one out for the ZBA, their part. I think there should be a copy in that folder. G. Totman: Yes, I have it here . Let's talk more about it first so the Board can see what we're talking about. J. Smith-Burdick: Here's a map my contractor drew up. This is a view from where the home sets back here. G. Totman: Wait a minute . This here , for the Board's sake, this is the road right here , right? J. Smith-Burdick: Right. 7 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 20 March 1997 G. Totman: And this is your house here? J. Smith-Burdick: Right . G. Totman: You've got 252 feet total? J. Smith-Burdick: Right . G. Totman: What we've got to know is -- this lot that you're taking off for her -- where is -- it doesn't show here what you're taking off of this property here . J. Smith-Burdick: Do you mean acreage-wise? G. Van Slyke: Where's the pole? J. Smith-Burdick: They suggested coming down this way. G. Totman: We've got to know what we're passing. Like , for example , somewhere over in this point over here to this point over here it's 252 feet. How much of that 252 are you keeping for your property? J. Smith-Burdick: I didn't think about that part. Many talking at same time -- unable to transcribe who said what. CO Twigg: You only need 15. J. Smith-Burdick: My surveyor said 20 to 50 feet. G. Totman: You've got to keep at least 150 feet for yourself. So that means that you can give them 50 feet out to a point here. C. Twigg: She don't need it. She said 20, G. Totman: Well, she said between 20 and 50 her surveyor told her. C. Twigg: But she just said 20 she wanted to give them. J. Smith-Burdick: Are you talking about the width of the driveway? I have, right here, an electric pole. And I have over in this area a drainage pipe . So from that pole to that drainage pipe is 35 feet. C. T wigg: So if you give them 20 -- J. Smith-Burdick: My driveway is only 15 feet. G. Totman: You've got to give them at least 20. If you want to give them more than 20 -- if you want to give them more than 20 -- see, we've got to know -- I talked to you on the phone, didn't I? J. Smith-Burdick: You didn't talk to me. Oh , I'm sorry -- you're George. Yes. Okay. G. Totman: You called me at work. J. Smith-Burdick: Yes. G. Totman: Okay, What I was getting at, and I think I told you over the phone -- that if we pass this, it becomes effective when you supply the surveyor's map . But what I told you was you had to have something drawn up here for the Board to see as to what you were asking for us to pass. And that's what I'm trying to get at now. We just can't say okay, we pass it, because if you look at this -- if you were this Board and didn't know anything about where you live -- you'd say whatever you want -- 8 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 20 March 1997 the house is here and the utility is here -- what are they asking for. So we've got to know how much footage here. You say it's 35 feet there - - do you want to give them 35 , or do you want to give them 20? J. Smith-Burdick: 25? G. Totman: All right. So you're going to go 25 feet from here to here and that's going to go back how far? J. Smith-Burdick: See , that's one think I wasn't sure if the surveyor takes care of that because I ' m not sure what the dimensions are for like one or two-acre lot. I have to have 2 acres from here to my land? G. Totman: You've got to have two acres out here . This area out here will be the two acres. J. Smith-Burdick: Okay. So he's going to go from my boundary line back and take two acres. G. Totman: This area, according to the rules, has to be two acres. This has got to be at least 20 feet. You've got 25 feet down here. Let me put it this way then -- if the Board will agree to this, because this is very unusual, because usually it's drawn up ahead of time. J. Smith-Burdick: Well I only had two days; I didn't have much time . I apologize for that. G. Totman: Well, you got sent to the wrong Board. I've got to get back near this tape here because I forget she's not here. Before we go any farther, we ought to read the Ordinance on flag lots -- minor flag lots -- to make sure we follow the letter of the law for a flag lot. Does somebody have it out there? I think Lyle put it in his memo to us what the --- Co TwiWo We don't have the revised Ordinance yet, do we? G. Totman: All that did was change the frontage. 2761 think it is. L. Raymond: Minor flag lot subdivision, first of all, is on page 9 in the definitions which this comes under we felt. G. Totman: Subdivision of land during a three-year period that results in one to two flag lots, one more of which is less than five acres and which does not include new streets, utilities , extensions, clustering, public . . .does not conflict with this Code, the official map, or any other Town development policy, and does not adversely affect use or development of adjoining land . A minor flag lot subdivision is subject to the minor subdivision process. So once we've determined that it's a flag lot, then it falls under the minor subdivision rules. It doesn't make any difference how long the flag pole is. It's just that you can't build in the flag pole. Like, for example, if the flag pole was 100 feet, because you need 150, so that 100 feet would be the flag pole even though it might be considered by some people as a regular developable lot. According to the rules you need 150, so you have to build beyond where it goes into the 150. So the one thing that we could do here, as I understand it, -- C• TWIWO At one time we had a maximum length to the pole. G. Van Slyke: I thought it was a maximum width . L. Raymond: That should be in Section 276, all those rules. V. Rankin: You're on the east side of Sharpsteen Road? J. Smith-Burdick: Same side as O'Briens. V. Rankin: O'Brien's side -- the west side. G. Totman: Doesn't say it here . Talks about the width, the minimum and the maximum width . 9 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 20 March 1997 L. Raymond: 276. 7 -- you're talking about. G. Totman: 1000 feet. I just couldn't remember it. But a thousand feet is a long ways. They don't even have a thousand feet. Okay, from what you've seen here, what I would suggest, and I want comments back, is that we really don't have a drawing -- we don't have a sketch with the dimensions on to show what we're passing. If they have their surveyor draw it up and it falls within the rules of here, could we pass it contingent upon that? C. Twigg: I don't know why not. M. Carey: I don't see why not. G. Totman: Do you follow what I'm saying? J. Smith-Burdick: Yes, G. Totman: So we can pass it here tonight if you produce to the chairman and the vice- chairman, sometime in the near future , a surveyor's map showing what it is that we're passing. And that has to fall within the rules and regulations of the Ordinance here. I don't know how else we can do it tonight without having that. And one of the things you're saying tonight is -- just so the Board has a better idea of what they're passing -- is that you're not sure of the depth of the flag lot because it will depend on how much acreage you have to get from the back part. But you're going to have 25 foot of width for the flag pole . So that leaves you about 227 feet, I think, for frontage for the property that you own now. So, from that, you're going to have the surveyor give us a map. And when you present it to me -- you'll bring it back to Carol and she'll call me when she gets it -- unless you want to bring it over to my office -- but you have to bring it here first because she has a stamp that she puts on it and then I sign that. So what we would do here tonight would be to pass it contingent upon a proper survey. Does that make sense to everybody? CO Twigg: Yes. But one thing I would say maybe you ought to write on this map what she needs. She needs two acres and a 25-foot pole, and two acres back there. G. Totman: How would it be if I gave her a photocopy of these two pages to give to her surveyor. CO T vi fe.' Yes. All right. G. Totman: We've got to do the -- this is for George. G. Van Slyke: How many acres in the total parcel here? J. Smith-Burdick: 4,28, G. Van Slyke: So you're going to give up half of it? L. Raymond: Actually, all they need is one acre minimum for their present house out of that four acres to be legal . So that means they've got a little over three acres to play with . So they don' t have to be exactly two acres. They can be anywhere between two and three acres in the flag -- just to clarify it for you folks. This is Lyle Raymond speaking, Joan , so -- CO T wing: But you have to remember the flag comes out of that four acres. The pole I mean. L. Raymond: She's got to have a minimum of two acres. But since they have a little more than that to play with , they can do anywhere from two to three acres for that, however they want to draw it. C. egg: But the pole we're not counting in the acreage. L. Raymond. That's right. C• Twigg. So that has to be subtracted . 10 • Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 20 March 1997 G. Totman: It says in here the area of the flag pole shall not be included in the calculation. L. Raymond: That won't take much, though . They're going to have a 25-foot driveway going back -- you're only talking about a quarter acre maybe . C. Twigg: That might make a difference to whether you make it a 20-foot drive or a 25 too. J. Smith-Burdick: I called and talked to Bruce Davison, the surveyor, and he said he'd start to draw up the map right away, that day, and then he's coming out the first part of next week to survey. So you're talking about the final map after it's all surveyed? G. Totman: Bruce might have a copy of this . J. Smith-Burdick: He surveyed the land when I bought it off from Brian Grell(?) . I gave him all the numbers and stuff and he pulled everything right out and he said he could start drawing it. G. Totman: Bruce has done a lot of surveying around the Town, and I think this is relatively new here. I'm going to photocopy this and change that 50 to 20, right? No -- the 50 to 149 , G. Van Slyke: Do you want to do the SEAR while you're gone? G. Totman: Okay, but speak up so Joanie can hear you. G. Van Slyke: Okay, Part II , Joanie , Board Member George Van Slyke then reads aloud Part 11 of the Short Environmental Assessment Form. Negative responses were obtained W all questions in Part H. Therefore, it was determined by the Planning Board, upon the motion made by Monica Carey, seconded by Verl Rankin, with all members present voting in favor, that the action, based on the information submitted, will not cause any significant adverse environmental impact, resulting in a negative declaration. L. Raymond, She was looking at the shared driveway and, just as a matter of clarification , that wouldn't apply in this case because it's between two flag lots and her lot is not going to be a flag lot. This is only one flag lot. So the shared driveway thing in 276.8 does not apply. She was speaking of that and I just wanted to clarify that. G. Totman: Any other questions? J. Smith-Burdick: How does this deal with property tax assessment. Are there two separate bills now? G. Totman: Yes. Once you get it done and you get it recorded -- it might show up on your school taxes this fall, but the person who's living in the trailer gets the bill. L. Raymond: Maybe everyone should go around and introduce themselves. G. Totman: So, anyway, Monica? M. Carey: I'm Monica Carey and I live on Lick Street. C. 1Vdgg: Cecil Twigg. I live in West Groton . G. Van Slyke: I'm George Van Slyke and I live in Groton City, V. Rankin: Verl Rankin , and I live on Cobb Street, S. Clark: Sheldon Clark and I live in Groton City. 11 • Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 20 March 1997 G. Totman: And I'm George, and I live in McLean. J. Smith-Burdick: So do I have to file another building permit, or is this one the same one? G. Totman: If you filed for a building permit, and you've got held up because of this, I would think it would be okay. He's just holding it up because he had to because this is -- J. Smith-Burdick: He did write denied on it, so does it matter? L. Raymond: He has to write the rejection on it -- that's how come we got it. And we, of course , said -- G. Totman: I 'll see him tomorrow and tell him that we've approved it and as soon as you bring your survey map in, then the permit will be okay and he'll take it from there . I would think that -- you paid for it, right? J. Smith-Burdick: Yes, G. Totman: I guess that's it -- you bring the survey in. The reason I wanted to explain that to you was that I didn't want you to get the idea that when you walk out of here tonight you could call up and say bring the trailer in . You'll get George right down your throat if you do that. J. Smith-Burdick: It should only take a day or two for the map. L. Raymond: In your case, it's so simple . He already worked on it before, he has all the records. J. Smith-Burdick: Thank you guys for your time. S. Clark: Sorry you had to go through all this hassle . It doesn't seem right. G. Totman: Oh, one of the things that I think we should thank Carol for is that little booklet you got there -- or thank Lyle, not Carol . It's the booklet you got on the short course -- the NY Association of Towns -- the Planning Federation had those out and they cost about $9 apiece. Lyle and I both bought one and I was starting to photocopy it but Lyle beat me to it and had the girls here in Groton copy them for all the Planning Board members and for the -- I think you'll find it written more in laymen's language than a lot of those things are so you can really understand them. It tells you about the laws and a lot of things you might not think about. If you read it through, it brings you up to date on a lot of things. And there's a good short course in there on the SEAR thing -- why we do certain things the way we have to do them. L. Raymond. It follows the Biblical injunction, you know - - and they shall be led by the hand like a little child . G. Totman: Well, thanks a lot, Lyle . I appreciate your coming. L. Raymond: Well, as I told you, after we had these folks over, you get a little personal interest in the matter so I just wanted to see what you folks were going to do -- I knew what you were going to do anyway. S. Clark: Sounds like they needed a little boost in salesmanship for the Town of Groton , too . L. Raymond: This lady that was here tonight may not be highly educated, but she's got the smarts. And I noticed that right off. She catches on quite fast to what needed to be done. She did her homework. We were kind of impressed with her on that. G. Totman: Do you have anything else you want brought up before the meeting tonight? 12 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 20 March 1997 V, Rankine I move we adjourn. CO Twigg: Second . G. Totmane All in favor? (All indicated they were in favor. ) Thank you . The meeting ended at 9*17 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Joan E. Fitch Transcribing Secretary 13