Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout1996-11-21 Y TOWN OF GROTON PLANNING BOARD MEETING Thursday, 21 November 1996 Board Members (*absent) Others Present George Totman, Chairman Joan E. Fitch , Recording Secretary Monica Carey George Senter, Town CEO *Sheldon Clark G . Bruce Davison, PLS *Jeff Lewis Robert & Helen Nabinger Verl Rankin Cecil Twigg George VanSlyke The meeting was called to order at 8:00 p.m. by Chairman George Totman, The start of the meeting was recorded only by the Recording Secretary and not recorded by tape . Approval of Minutes = Meeting of October 17, 1996 A motion_ was made by Verl Rankin to approve the October meeting minutes as submitted. The motion was seconded by George Van Slyke with all members present voting in favor. Paragon Enterprises = South Main Street - TM #2& lw25.2 CEO George Senter reported that Mr. Walpole had requested that this item be postponed to the December meeting. Glenn Munson - 15 Walpole Road - TM # 221-3=2.2 (Portion of) Chairman Totman reported that the Town Zoning Board of Appeals had granted the road frontage variance requested by the applicant through his land surveyor, G. Bruce Davison. A copy of the ZBA decision dated 22 October 1996 has been placed on file for the record . Mr. Davison was now appearing before the Planning Board to request approval of the proposed flag lot subdivision. The Board had no further questions. Board Member George Van Slyke then reads aloud Part H of the Short Environmental Assessment Form. Negative responses were obtained to all questions in Part H. Therefore, it was determined by the Planning Board, upon the motion made by Monica Carey, seconded by Verl Rankin, with all members present voting in favor, that the action, based an the information submitted, will not cause any significant adverse environmental impact, resulting in a negative declaration. G. Totman. Okay, now that we've got that done, if nobody has anymore questions or whatever, a motion is in order to either accept or reject. M. Carey, I'll make a motion to accept the subdivision . V. Rankin: I'll second it. G. Totman: All in favor? (All members present indicated they were in favor.) B. Davison: Can I get them signed? G. Totman: Tonight? B. Davison: Yes, G. Totman: No, because Carol's got them. B. Davison: Okay, can I leave those to be. . . 1 1 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 21 November 1996 G. Totman: Sure, you can leave them and pick them up anytime after tomorrow -- out front, In fact, I'll leave them with George -- G. Senter. Yes, I'll get them to her. G. Totman. Anytime tomorrow -- if George leaves them off for her. B. Davison: Does the Town get the mylar? G. Totman: No, you keep the mylar; we get a copy. Carol will stamp and sign it by using my signature stamp which she has . B. Davison: Okay. Thank you . G. Totman. Today's the 21st, right? Okay. Helen Nabinger - 670 Old Staae Road - TM #204 - 16 G. Totman: Have you all read their request? (Board members acknowledged that they had.) Any questions? V. Rankin: You're out on Old Stage Road, right? H. Nabinger: Right. M. Carey: How large is your lot? G. Totman: It's . 96 acres. M. Carey: And there's plenty of parking space? H. Nabinger: Yes. R. Nabinger: Both sides of the garage . G. Van Slyke: There's spots for ten cars? R. Nabingen Yes. Both sides of the garage. We've got two garages. G. Totman: Is this something you make, or buy and sell? H. Nabinger: Some will be buy and sell, some of it will be what I make . G. Totman: Well, you guys V. Rankin: It looks like you've got plenty of parking space . G. Totman: Have you thought when -- all the time -- or days you're going to be closed or open? H. Nabinger: It will be a part-time thing. It will be probably weekends -- R. Nabinger: And maybe one or two days during the week -- no more than two days. G. Van Slyke: Are you looking for drive-by business, or are these going to be people that know about you and come in? H. Nabinger. Well, we would run an ad and I also want to ask what the stipulations are on putting signs up on Route 222 , G. Totman: There's the code man right there. 2 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 21 November 1996 G. Senter. This is a NYS highway. What the code says is that any signs that you put up shall be on the premises that you're advertising. R. Nabinger: How does that work with, for example, weekend signs when they have rummage sales -- G. Senter. Garage sales and things? As long as the NYS DOT doesn't complain, I guess. People just stick them up . R. Nabinger: They call them A-frame signs. V. Rankin: Don't make it too professional. R. Nabinger: It won't be too professional. G. Totman: According to the ordinance, it says, "temporary signs shall be permitted for a period not exceeding six weeks prior to the activity or event and not exceeding four days after the event. " C. 1wigg: Is that talking about on 222 , or on premises? G. Totman0 It's talking about on premises; well, it doesn't say, really. M. Carey: This is going to be what, a family operation? R. Nabinger: Yes. G. Totman: Okay, while George is reading that (ref. G. Senter) , George, will you do this for us`.a Let me just explain to you because it's a controversy lots of times as to why we do it. By law, every action a government body makes they have to do a SEQR Do you know what a SEQR is? It's the State Environmental Quality Review -- and if we don't do it and somebody questions it, then the action we take would be null and void . So we have to go through this bureaucratic motion. G. Van S1yke: Okay, are you ready? One more time. Board Member George Van Slyke then reads aloud Part II of the Short Environmental Assessment Form. Negative responses were obtained to all questions in Part II. Therefore, it was determined by the Planning Board, upon the motion made by Verl Rankin, seconded by Monica Carey, with all members present voting in favor, that the action, based on the information submitted, will not cause any significant adverse environmental impact, resulting in a negative declaration. G. Totman: Did all of you people get a copy of the tax map along with your information? X Nabinger: Yes . G. Totman0 One of the things we have to decide if we're going to approve or disapprove something is whether we feel it is important enough or not to have a public hearing to let the neighbors know that something is going on in their neighborhood . For example, if you wanted to keep a nice quiet neighborhood and all of a sudden you see the neighbors starting a used car shop across the street, you'd want to know about it. And that's what it's for. But it's up to the Planning Board to decide if you really need to have a public hearing or not. Sometimes there's no neighbors around the area and, obviously, it's all open field, there's no need for it; of if it's going to be something that's not really going to create a lot of outdoor noise -- probably won't create a lot of cars coming in than would normal family operations or something like that -- sometimes there's no need to hold a public hearing. But it's up to the Planning Board to decide that. V. Rankin: These are all your neighbors on the back here? G. Totman: Whenever you make an application like this, you have to know who all the neighbors are. This is Carol's writing here. The rules are that the applicant is supposed to turn in who all their neighbors are, but normally the office does it. Everybody, all your immediate neighbors, got a copy. There are eight adjacent neighbors. They went down as far as Fish's. 3 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 21 November 1996 Ce Twigg: Where is this located on Old Stage Road? I didn't know there were that many people living there. G. Van Slyke: You go down in the dip and then you start up and there's a whole row of houses and trailers. The closest neighbors are Horn and Creech . G. Totman: Okay, so there's offstreet parking for ten cars, you're going to be open afternoons and evenings -- Re Nabinger: Some , H. Nabiinger: It won't be open every day. R. Nabinger: And not more than two weekdays anyway. G. Totman: I don't know as -- something like this is different than a place where they're fixing cars, and we like to let the neighbors know if they're going to be fixing cars or selling ice cream from noon until 8 o'clock at night, but here the operation is a quieter operation . H. Nabinger. It wouldn't be open late in the evening. It probably wouldn't be open after six. G. Totman: Suppose we put it won't be open after 8 p.m. -- like noon to 8? In this particular case, I don't think it really makes much difference , so we'll put down that you're going to be open occasionally during the week and on weekends from noon 'til 8 ; then if you want to close at six or don't want to open at all, that's your business. So we do have something broad that covers what you're doing. Does that make sense to everybody? What do you think about -- G. Van Slyke: I move we forego the public hearing on this. V. Rankin: I second it. G. Totman: All in favor of that? (All indicated they were in favor.) Now we need another motion to approve or disapprove the application for a special permit to operate a collectibles and gift shop in the garage, that offstreet parking space will be provided for ten cars, and that will be open periodically throughout the week from noon until 8 at night. M. Carey: I make a motion to approve the special permit with those conditions as outlined . V. Rankin: I'll second it. M. Carey: All in favor? (All indicated they were in favor. ) G. Totman: George, they want to ask about the sign. H. Nabinger: Now, a sign on the property -- we can have a permanent sign on the property? G. Senter. Yes. As long as you're not in the right-of-way. H. Nabi[nger: Right. G. Senter. The only problem there is is if NYS complains about it. G. Totman: According to the Ordinance, they can put a temporary sign up without a permit. And you want to put a sign up over on 222 like you asked -- it's okay as long as you don't get in trouble with the State , according to our rules. H. Nabinger: What about people who put one down on the corner of Old Stage and Salt Road? G. Senter. That's somebody's property. G. Totman: You've got to get permission from the property owner and then get George's permission. 4 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 21 November 1996 R. Nabinger: Is it somebody's property where the stop signs are? G. Senter. If it's in the right-of-way - - H. Nabinger•. Even with a temporary sign? G. Totman: A temporary sign is something you're going to put up and take down. Normally , nobody bothers that. H. Nabinger. I can put it out in the morning and take it out at night. G. Senter: Sure. Everybody does that. Co Twiggy No they don't. Those people on the West Groton Road will stick one on that light pole there in my yard and they never take it down. I go out and tear them off. They'll be there for weeks i f you don't go out and take it off. G. Totman: Well, anyway, as far as we're concerned, you're all set. If you want to put a permanent sign up, see George, who is usually here during the day. Do you have an application to give them tonight to take with them? G. Senter. I don't have one . They're out in the front office. G. Totman: What are you going to sell? H. Nabinger. Collectibles instead of antiques; mostly glassware and jewelry and some craft items. I make quilts and different craft items. R Nabinger: Victorian stuff. G. Totman: Glassware. You mean stuff like blue glass and that fancy glass people buy? H. Nabinger; Right. R. Nabinger: And pieces of residential furniture; I do some of that. G. Totman: I see. I was just curious to know. H. Nabinger: This will be a good, clean shop . G. Totmanr Okay. H. Nabinger: Thank you very much . Discussion of Paragon Enterprises/Robert Walpole Project (as above) G. Totman: For your info, he's got one lot sold, which he can do. And he was going to ask us for the subdivision to do three lots, and they are all way over an acre and they have way over the required road frontage . He said he was going to be in school tonight, but he could have his wife come over if we needed her, but I told him I thought we had enough information so we could probably do that. But he doesn't have any particular sale for the other two lots now anyway, so it wouldn't hurt him any if we decided to approve it and have a public hearing or not have a public hearing, or wait until December -- that didn' t bother him. But must be after he talked to me, he called George and said pull it, so we'll pull it until the December meeting. We'll just ignore that we got it. 5 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 21 November 1996 Discussion of Status of Pr000sed Revisions W Zoning Ordinance G. Totman: I was led to believe that the Town Board approved our request for changes and was going to hold a public hearing. And then Colleen told me last Friday that she was going to give me a note saying the things they wanted changed . According to my report, they approved it and the Town Attorney said he had no problem with it, and they were going to have a public hearing. When I got here tonight, this note (dated today) was here, so I'm not quite sure where we go from here . V. Rankin: Well, if the Town Board -- from what I hear, the Town Board voted to accept this -- G. Totman: Were you at the meeting, George? G. Senter. I must have left before that came up . J. Fitch: I was there . M. Carey: Why do we need to include a definition for Special Permit and for Site Plan Review? Those are right in the -- V. Rankin; Monica -- they voted to accept what was given them. Now, somebody's giving us this paper. They approved it. That's all we need . G. Van Slyke: Now what did they approve? They approved the changes that were made? V. Rankin: They approved all the changes. J. Fitch: They approved the changes as they were submitted, and Mr. Casullo said he saw no problem with them -- I just looked back at my minute notes -- and he recommended that they set a date for the public hearing. Colleen said they would have to get on that right away because they wanted to hold it at their regular December meeting. A motion was made to that effect, seconded, and all Town Board members present voted in favor. G. Van Slyke: Do we have a copy of the list of the changes? G. Totman: I've got one here . As I look through this under "Definitions, " there isn't any definition for a Site Plan Review, M. Carey: There isn't? Co TWIWO How come you didn't fix that? G. Senter. I'm just the messenger. G. Totman: Site plan review and special permit -- if you look on page -- M. Carey: Even back where we put the land use stuff? V. Rankin: Who made this up? That's what I want to know. G. Totman: I have no idea. It was here on the table when I came tonight. G. Senter. I have no idea. I'm not involved in that loop . G. Totman: One of the things I thought you might have something to say about, George. Do you remember anything about that one right there? G. Senter. (Reading) Add motorized vehicle race tracks -- nope. Nobody even talked to me about any of that stuff. M. Carey: On page 73, Section 441 . 1 A - Special Permits -- Certain activities are identified in Article 3, Land Use Regulations, as permitted with a Site Plan Review because their. . , location and effect 6 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 21 November 1996 on the surrounding environment warrants detailed evaluations of the Site Plan before development is allowed . " I would think that would be your definition of a Special Permit, C. TWIM Proposed Change #4 - needs clarification. What do they need clarified there? M. Carey: I thought we had defined all these things. G. Totman: All we did on #4 was remove the time limits for subdivisions because if you' ll remember, Palmers got it approved, but they didn't file it right away. And our time limit said if you don't file within 180 days, according to the way the old Ordinance read, then you had to come in , technically, and get it done all over again . Of course, most of the time it's not caught. But a Code Enforcement Officer would have to have quite an elaborate tickler file to keep track of all these to see what their dates and time limits are . But what difference does it make -- if they have it approved this year, but don't sell any lots, why should they have to come back in next year to have it done all over again . So that's why we took the time limits out. C. Twim Looks like what they're saying here on this proposed change , Section 120, Definitions, says add definitions for Special Permit and for Site Plan Review because we didn't have them in there. We didn't make out a definition . M. Carey: But I just read the definition. G. Totman: But the one you read is not under "Definitions. " So we can say to them -- okay, take it out from where it is and put it over under "Definitions. " M. Carey: Okay. Co TWIM Then what they're saying is we should have given the definition and put it in here, but nobody did it. M. Carey. I thought we had, but it's not under the "Definitions" section. G. Totman: Let me just clarify something for the minutes. We're saying that the definition is there in the Ordinance, but it needs to be put in the proper location under "Definitions. " We will agree to have the Town Lawyer do that. See what they're getting at is they don't want to make changes without having us give our approval. Under #4, I don't think it needs clarification, because we are very explicit about what we wanted to do. And there was a reason for it. I have no problems with this Additional Suggestions, # 1 . They were suggestions. I don't know whose suggestions they are or whatever, but in the Agricultural District they wanted to add outdoor shooting ranges or motor vehicle race tracks under special permit -- M. Carey: I thought we covered something like that because we had something like that come before the Board. G. Van Slyke: They are not listed specifically in a particular zone . M. Carey: (Reading) -- Public or private commercial outdoor recreational activities . I would say this would be that shooting range because we had that come before us. G. Van Slyke: Well, motorized vehicle race tracks are -- M. Carey: Public or private commercial outdoor recreational activities. I would think both of them would be covered right under that. G. Van Slyke: But okay -- then the question is -- are they asking us to designate areas where they are permitted -- G. Totman: In what zone. See , in here we put in -- they'd have to be in the Agricultural Zone. M. Carey. They are . 7 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting. g g 21 November 1996 G. Totman: What page you on, Monica? M. Carey: 52 . It's in the Agricultural and Industry -- the only two places they are allowed . G. Van Slyke: You better show the page number. M. Carey: Page 52 , G. Van Slyke: Maybe we're not specific enough . M. Carey: But we don't want to be specific because that's when we run into problems -- when we were doing this, we were trying to -- G. Totman: One of the reasons the way it was written before, George , it said if it's not defined, then it's not legal . So if we started saying horse race track and this and this, and you didn't put motorized go-cart tracks, then they weren't legal. Here we're saying all private and commercial recreational activities are legal in the Agricultural Zone . So this would include -- we're not listing any one so that any of those activities are legal . G. Van Slyke: So if I 'm living in the Agricultural zone, just suppose now, and I want to build a motorcycle race track out in my back yard, I could do that? G. Totman: With a permit. It's a special permit. You'd have to come before the Board . Regarding suggestion #2 , Lyle asked John Pachai to come in and sit in on the meetings. And John had a lot of his own ideas. We agreed with some and some we didn't. Co Twigg: They work with these problem parts of the Ordinance most. G. Totman: What I'll take back to the Town Board is that we agree that the attorney should take the definition for special permit from page 73 and put it under "Definitions . " V. Rankin: The thing I'm mad about is they've already approved it and then -- G. Totman: Yes, I agree with you Verl, but otherwise it's going to hold it up longer. So we've gone over it and these are our suggestions, and we'll relay it back to them tomorrow. Anybody got any more questions on that? If not, I have nothing else . Adjournment V. Rankin: I move we adjourn. G. Van Slyke: Second , G. Totman: All those in favor? (All members presented indicated they were in favor.) The meeting was adjourned at 9:00 p.m. Respectfully submitted, g���e Joan E. Fitch Recording Secretary 8