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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1996-02-15 TOWN OF GROTON PLANNING BOARD PUBLIC HEARING & MEETING Thursday , 15 February 1996 Board Members (*present) Others Present *George Totman, Chairman Joan E . Fitch , Recording Secretary *Monica Carey Robert Walpole *Sheldon Clark Bill & Judy Booth Jeff Lewis George Senter, Sr. , CEO *Verl Rankin Lyle Raymond, Town ZBA Chair *Cecil Twigg Leland Cornelius, Town DPW Supt. *George VanSlyke DeForest Hall Carl & Cecil Bush Arland Heffron, Town Justice Alex Tompkins The public hearing was called to order at S:00 p.m. by George Totman, Chairperson. G. Totman : (To R. Walpole) Are your clients coming? R. Walpole: I'm representing them and the owners. G. Totman: Okay. I thought we'd have a whole room full. The last time we had a public hearing on that corner we had over 100 people show up . I thought there would be a house full tonight. I've got to read the notice that was in the paper to make it legal. N0710E IS HEREBY GIVEN, that pursuant to Section 341 - Land Use Activities, of the Town of Groton Land Use & Development Code, a public hearing will be held by the Planning Board of the Town of Groton, Tompkins County, New York, on Thursday, February 15, 1996, at 8:00 p. m. at the Town Hall, 101 Conger Boulevard, for the purpose of considering the application of Bill and Judy Booth (Jeffrey and Elizabeth Trescot, owners) for a convenience store, said premises being located in a Medium Intensity Two (M2) District on .NYS Route 22, Cortland Road, west of Salt Road All interested parties will be given an opportunity to be heard in respect to such proposed application, Persons may appear in person or by agent. George L. Totman, Chairman DATED: February 2, 1996 Town of Groton Planning Board Reference: Tax Map Parcel #20- 1 -35 G. Totman : We'll have the applicants briefly explain what it is and if there are any questions, give your name and your address so that the clerk can get it in the minutes . And if Bill, or Judy, or one of you will just briefly explain to the people that are here what your plans are . Please. Or Bob , I don't care who . R. Walpole: Well, basically, it's in an M2 zone and it's an allowed use in this zone . The reason we're here is we've gone for a Site Plan Review as required by the Town and we're required to have a public hearing. But the use is allowed in that zone . We're ready to field any questions if there's any questions. Yes? A. Tompkins: My name's Alex Tompkins. I live in the property next to the property there . I guess I'm late . I thought it started at 8 o'clock. R. Walpole: No. We just started the hearing. 1 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 15 February 1996 A. Tompkins: I didn't hear no description as far as what they intend to do as far as the store they want to open there . I think before I ask questions I'd like to hear what they want to do there . R. Walpole: I think at this point it's a convenience mart. Do you know what a convenience mart is? A. Tompkins: A store like your Red Apple . R. Walpole: That's correct. Be Booth: All the cars will be gone from there . A. Tompkins: Good . J. Booth: And a small deli . A. Tompkins: Okay, R. Walpole: It's basically a convenience store with a small deli -- like a Red Apple . No gas station . No gas pumps. A. Tompkins: We certainly welcome that. I have a family of four kids there and they're going to be running in there once in awhile . R. Walpole: All the deli - submarines, pizza -- from that standpoint, at this point. All of the cars there now will be gone by April 1st. A. Tompkins: We knew Jeff and he was a good friend by the way, and he was a good person and everything, but we had a hard time getting rid of all those junk cars. J. Booth: Well someone stopped and talked to us and he was a junk dealer. So what's left, he's going to come and pull them out. A. Tompkins: Other questions we were wondering about -- it's a convenience store - - what kind of hours do you plan on opening? Be Booth: 5 to 10 p .m. A. Tompkins: Okay. So it's not going to be 24 hours. Just curious about that. It's going to be a family operation and you two will run it? The only personal type of question that I have -- because as a father with four young kids, I was wondering like any store like that will there be magazines? Be Booth: Not that type there won't. A. Tompkins: I was just wondering about that. Not that I'm going to tell you how to run your business or anything, I was just going to ask you if you did, that you do like a lot of these stores do -- they keep it in an area where it's not visible for people to see . R. Walpole: There will be package beer available there. D. Hall: I'm DeForest Hall and I live on the Salt Road. Besides what you're talking about, is there any way this can be prevented. R. Walpole: What's that? The alcohol? D. Hall: Yes. The alcohol. R. Walpole: They have to go through the proper rules and legal authority. There will be no consumption on the property, but they will be allowed to sell package beer. Just like the Red Apple . 2 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 15 February 1996 Be Booth: Beer and wine . D. Hall: You keep on hearing on TV about the youth . (Lots of discussion here with everyone talking at once. ) J. Booth: They will have to show ID . R. Walpole: They still are required to have all the permits and they are required to have a license. There are 8 to 10 permits to comply with , and all the rules and regulations. J. Booth: We have two teenage children . D. Hall: But there's no way they could be turned down? R. Walpole: We don't control the issuing offices. I know a regular restaurant permit runs 2 to 2500 dollars a year. C. Twia: They will make it as convenient for you as they can. D. Hall: Will there by a gas station there in the foreseeable future? R. Walpole: That comes under an altogether different --- D. Hall: They'll have to go through the Planning Board again and. . . . R. Walpole: Just briefly, we are working with a major company right now in reference to a new operation coming in, and the permits are just unbelievable . A. Tompkins: I'm just curious. Is that properly zoned so they could have that if they decided later on they wanted to do that? G. Senter: Yes, G. Totman: Yes. R. Walpole: That whole zone is, to the Town line . . . G. Totman : Village line . R. Walpole: village line , east to Salt Road is all zoned for all commercial. A. Tompkins: And that's just the property along Route 222? R. Walpole: 500 feet from the State right-of-way -- 500' back on both sides. G. Senter: West of Salt Road . A. Tompkins: What is the reason for this? G. Totman: There's an M1 and an M2 . An M2 is a little bit more oriented towards commercial business than an M 1 is. And more to discourage residential. It requires larger lots for people putting in something new. Of course, that's already there. The land is already there -- the tax map number. But the reason for the M2 district is -- M1 is commercial. M2 has been changed a little bit from the M1 to more or less try to encourage commercial and discourage residential so that later on down the road, hopefully, we can bring a little bit more commercial activities in the Town to help offset the tax base and be beneficial to the taxpayer. A. Tompkins: I just wanted a general description . G. Totman: Maybe you'd like to read this afterwards if you want to. 3 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 15 February 1996 A. Tompkins: It's kind of a long document -- can I get a copy of it. G. Senter: Yes. You can buy a whole copy of the thing at Town Hall. It costs you 5 bucks . G. Totman : Anybody else? Cecil? Anybody else got any questions? L. Raymond : Well, my wife rides a bicycle all around there and she's looking forward to having a refreshment stop over there. G. Totman : It's a package license , you can't drink it on the premises!! (Everyone laughs.) Okay, if there's no other questions, going, going, gone -- we'll close the public hearing . D. Hall: Are you sure this one has no connection with the one in McLean? G. Totman: No . No . You mean the proposed one in McLean? D. Hall: Yes, proposed one. G. Totman: That probably will be started in the middle of March . J. Booth: I was asked that question the other day. I said no , we're by ourselves. G. Totman Everybody all set now? Any more questions? Okay, we'll close the public hearing (it was 8 : 15 p .m. ) and the Planning Board will move on to their regular meeting. The normal procedure is and what we've always done in the past on something like this is by law we have to make a decision within 45 days after a public hearing. We usually go through our public meeting, our regular meeting, and discuss the other things we have to discuss, and unless something comes up, and I know that -- as far as I know there's nothing come up that would cause a denial -- we'll vote on it at the end of the meeting. That's been the general procedure. But I see no reason for not -- unless somebody wants to move differently. A. Tompkins: You will vote on this tonight at the end of the meeting? G. Totman : Yes, at the end of the meeting . A. Tompkins: And you will give permission tonight for them to go ahead? G. Totman: Normally when you vote you do a special permit thing. There will be some rules and guidelines on where the parking will have to be, the hours of operation . When we decide that with the applicants, the Zoning Officer issues that and those special stipulations are put on the special permit. The decision, yes, is made tonight. We've already met with them and discussed those things - - like you asked the hours and stuff like that. Those things the Planning Board has already discussed and asked them ahead of time. After that, anybody can ask to see what it is and then each year they have to renew their permit. The Zoning Officer checks them out to see if they're complying with it. If they are not complying, they don't get their permit renewed . A. Tompkins: I just wondered because you were talking about that 45-day period. That's the time that you have , if you wanted to take it. G. Totman: If you wanted to take it, yes. But we have never, never -- A. Tompkins: I'm just curious. If, say, we found out something about this business that wasn' t discussed at the meeting tonight, do we have the right, then, within that 45-day period to contest it or anything like that? G. Totman : It depends - - if you -- if the Planning Board doesn't act tonight, then until they act you could bring up something for consideration. But bear in mind it's an allowed use in that area. Okay? And that we have a public hearing with due notice to anyone in the area to come and either protest or ask questions, and whatever. And if after that public hearing somebody comes up a week later and 4 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 15 February 1996 says, hey, you know - - I'm not sure what it would be -- I think that would be out of order. Personally. I think, by law, it would have to be brought up at this meeting, or else whatever was brought up at this meeting might cause a postponement to maybe have another public hearing. But, otherwise , if somebody could just individually bring something up anytime they wanted to , it would kind of defeat the purpose of having a public hearing. G. Senter: I think what you said here tonight, George, about the permit pretty much satisfies that question anyway. If they violate that and do something else, it would be wrong. They would be violating the special permit so it wouldn't be allowed . G. Totman: Did you have something in mind when you asked that question? A. Tompkins: No , no, no. I just kind of wanted to know my rights you know as a residence in the area. That's why you gave me the privilege of coming to this meeting. G. Totman: Oh sure , that' s a good question. A. Tompkins: I just wanted to know what the extent of that right was. D. Hall: I know you closed the hearing. . . G. Totman : I'm glad you understood that. D. Hall: Something just entered into my mind, though, seeing as he's asking if there would be a repercussion on something -- I understand they are going to have a deli there, and sell meats and stuff and sandwiches -- to be served on the property?? B. Booth: Sometimes. Some of it on, yes. D. Ball: So like a diner, you'd be serving food on the premises? J. Booth: Well, under 20 people. R. Walpole: To answer Mr. Tompkins question, if he felt there was a violation, he has a right. . . G. Totman: to go to George . R. Walpole: to go to George with a complaint. G. Totman : Okay. Moving right along, then. Has everybody read the minutes of the last meeting? (Everybody uh-huh'd.) Anybody want to make a motion to approve or reject? G. Van Slyke: I'll make a motion to approve the minutes of the last meeting (January 18 , 1996) , M. Carey: I'll second it. G. Totman: All in favor? (All acknowledged they were in favor.) Okay, being we didn't do it at the first meeting of the year, we're supposed to set a meeting date for the year so it can be published. Is everybody satisfied with the meeting date that we have now -- the third Thursday of every month at 8 o'clock? If so, we'll notify the Town Clerk and she will publicize it. M. Carey: No problem for me. G. Totman: Somebody want to make that a motion? M. Carey: I will make that a motion . V. Rankin: I second it. (There was no vote taken on this motion .) 5 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 15 February 1996 G. Totman: Is there anything else that anyone has to bring before the Board? It will be a very short meeting tonight. M. Carey: No. C. Twigg: No. I'm satisfied. G. Totman : Okay. Board members -- Cecil, is there anything else you know of that should be brought before the Board before we go back to discussing the. . . C. Twigg: Not that I know of. G. Totman: Okay. What would be my suggestion would be if we vote on it tonight is to sit back down with the applicants and go through the parking, the hours, and the stuff that will be put on the special permit. I would suggest that they come up to the table and sit so we can discuss it with them. Bob, could you get the applicants to come up , and yourself, and sit with us so we can go over what the special permit conditions would be? G. Van Slyke: (To Mr. Tompkins) Did you want to read the Ordinance , or. . . . A. Tompkins: No thank you. I'Il just come by and pickup a copy of that. G. Totman: Okay, what we want to do . . . Ready? Okay. Board members, are you with me? We discussed at the last meeting, parking, entrance , and we want to just have it clear so we can give George the direction, as I explained earlier, putting it into the site plan review permit. We talked about parking, but we never came out with exactly what we were talking about. And George (Van Slyke) asked me that question a minute ago. G. Van Slyke: Yes, I had a question. Bill said that your parking is going to be on the side, probably wider than it is. And you've got 105 feet that you could park in -- you've got two driveways. if I understand the location, you've got the back driveway -- Be Booth: There's one here and one that comes in here, and then the back. . G. Van Slyke : The back one . So you're saying your parking primarily will be . . . Be Booth: Probably the majority of it. . G. Van Slyke: in this area, but you may park some along in the front? Be Booth: Some along in the front. G. Van Slyke: But there won't be an arrangement like he had here when he had the Truck Stop there? J. Booth: Oh , no . G. Totman : Your diagram shows you coming out the Salt Road , but it doesn't show you getting back on. . . G. Van Slyke : He said probably wider than it is now. . . . G. Totman : What we're looking at . . . . G. Van Slyke : You've got 105 feet. . . . G. Totman: Somehow or other we've got to draw into the thing that we're approving tonight -- because I know you're planning coming out the Salt Road and coming back out onto this road here. 6 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 15 February 1996 You show two places coming out on the Salt Road . Now assuming this is an old sketch from somebody else, do we assume that this back one here is one that you're not planning on using for your business? Be Booth: That would be a service road . G. Van Slyke : Let's mark this as a service road. G. Totman: Okay. Now you're going to be using this one here? Be Booth: This one . G. Totman : Yes, okay. Be Booth: Then they can circle around and come back on 222 here . We're going to be coming off of the Salt Road and then going back onto 222 -- or visa versa. G. Totman: Now, if they need any more parking than what they show there, they're going to have to have a bigger store for the customers. Be Booth: The parking would be straight across here, not at an angle like that. And all this area can then be used in there . G. Totman : George, do you want to listen to this so that you know - - cause this is what you're going to put into the . . . . M. Carey: So we're going to have parking in the front and parking on the east side . G. Senter: Are they providing you with a parking diagram, or are you going to develop one? G. Totman: That's what we're talking about. G. Van Slyke: We're talking about it right now. We're just trying to locate where they would have the parking. G. Senter: I think one thing you should do is have a sign up that says "Trucking Parking In The Rear Only. " If you have trucks parking up front, you may have a problem with somebody coming off Salt Road and they can't see down the road. That's not a very good intersection anyways. G. Totman : On the intersection itself, they are not planning anything up front like is there now. That's going to be all lawn in there . Be Booth: It's going to be lawn . G. Senter: Okay, G. Totman: So they're not planning anything up here. G. Senter: They probably want the trucks back in the back anyway. Be Booth: Yes, because it would take up all the car space . G. Van Slyke: You're talking about tractor trailers? G. Senter: Yes. It's a convenience store and those guys stop -- coffee and stuff. It's just a thought. There should be a parking diagram put right in the file . so I have something to . . . . G. Totman : That's why I asked them to come up . G. Senter: That's the input I have . The only concern I have is that the trucks park some way so it won't be a hindrance . Otherwise , there's not a problem there . You actually got three driveways -- 7 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 15 February 1996 Be Booth: Right. And there's one back here . . . G. Senter: It's pretty wet back in there, too, Bill. I'd be a little careful about that. G. Totman: For the purpose of the minutes then, we're going to suggest that the owners, through a sign or some indication, tell any large trucks that come should park on the north side of the driveway. That would be somewhere in this area here . Other than that, the parking diagram we have here with the road coming off of Salt Road , going over to 222 , , , 1 mean, for a convenience store, if you get more than four or five cars there at any one time, you're going to have lots of business. Even the Red Apple up here -- you don't see more than three or four cars there at a time. So it's not like you're going to have 25-30 cars there . If you were going to do a restaurant, we would have to have a different layout of where the cars are going to be, what kind of pavement. . . G. Senter: Then it's a whole different ball game . Be Booth: The restaurant is out after talking with the Health Department. You've got to have a whole new septic system; she'd have to go through the environmental people . A. Tompkins: Excuse me. I just heard about the tractor trailer thing, you know, in the parking lot -- that you would have to provide for them. Be Booth: Yes, I'd have to put up a sign. They'd go down through here on the side so it doesn't block the intersection . A. Tompkins: My concern would be if you develop behind there. You know, there's a strip of land behind or between that property or the buildings and my property. Be Booth: There would be nothing there . A. Tompkins: That's going to be left blank there? Because I can just imagine seeing those big trucks parked between your property and my property. It would be very noisy and I would not like that at all. Be Booth: If they come in, they would be on the side of the building. That's all swampy there and you couldn't do anything with it anyways . Maybe one or two at a time -- maybe none . We're not advertising it as a truck stop. G. Totman: Five to 10, is that what you're planning on? J. Booth: Five a.m. G. Totman: Five a.m. to 10 at night. Seven days a week. J. Booth: Yes, right now. G. Totman: Okay. Board members, do you have anything else you'd like to look at? V. Rankin: I move we approve it. G. Totman: With the stipulations of unless they change their hours or the parking that we've designated there -- we'll draw it up and I'll sit down with George tomorrow. He's bringing up about the trucks coming back away from the corner -- in the parking lot the way it is right now, you are not blocking the corner even if a truck stopped out there . Be Booth: No, cause this driveway's way away from the corner. G. Totman: The reason that original question was asked is they were thinking about coming up here and blocking this corner up in here . If you get three or four tractor trailer trucks in there, then you may have a problem. 8 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 15 February 1996 B. Booth: The lawn is going to stay the same, we're not going to mess with lawn . G. Senter: I don't foresee a problem. G. Totman : I don't see any problem. I really don't. B. Booth: There would be no more than one or two there at the time anyway. G. Van Slyke: We have a motion, but we didn't have a second. I'll second it. G. Totman: All those in favor of the motion presented? (All were in favor.) Do you know what the motion is, Cecil? C. Twigg: What was the motion, George? J. Fitch: We never had a clear motion . R. Walpole: That the store hours would be from 5 a. m. to 10 p.m. , that the parking would be worked out between the owners and the Code Enforcement Officer. G. Totman: We're going to have a diagram that will be on record so that's what George will go by. R. Walpole: And any changes will come back before the Board . G. Totman: Just to correct what you just said, Bob, you said the parking would be decided between the owners and the Code Enforcement Officer. The Site Plan Review says we have to tell the CEO what we want, so we'll do that. R. Walpole: . . . . there may have to be some adjustments made. G. Totman: That's exactly right, and we do that. R. Walpole: But to sit here and put this, this, this, and this. The business may jump to $ 100,000 every six months and require some adjustments. G. Totman: I can't agree with you more . But I was just trying to make it so the minutes showed that we were doing it according to Hoyle . All in favor of the motion? (All were in favor. ) Does anybody else have anything to bring up before this meeting? V. Rankin: I move we adjourn. G. Van Slyke : Second . G. Senter: That a boy, Verl . G. Totman: All in favor? (All were in favor. ) The meeting was adjourned at 8 :40 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Joan E. Fitch Recording Secretary 9