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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1995-11-16 TOWN OF GROTON PLANNING BOARD Thursday, 16 November 1995 Board Members (*present) Others Present *George Totman , Chairman George Senter, Sr. , CEO *Monica Carey Joan E. Fitch , Recording Secretary Sheldon Clark Elmer Jay McNeal Jeff Lewis Carl S. Scheffler *Verl Rankin Phillip Martinez *George VanSlyke Robert Walpole Cecil Twigg The meeting was called to order at 8:27 p.m. by George Totman, Chairperson. G. Totman: It is now 8:27 and we have a quorum and all the participants are here that are on the agenda. We will dispense with approval of the minutes and our regular business until after we've gone through the order of business that we're here to take care of. The first one on the agenda is Elmer McNeal and he wants to put a repair shop in -- build a little structure and put a repair shop in up on East Cortland Street (Application for Special Permit, Tag Map Parcel #2& 1 -3) . You've all got a package in the mail . M. Carey: Now where is this exactly located? G. Totman: I think it's where Rockwells -- M. Carey: Where Rockwells used to live -- oh , okay. G. Totman: Now you are looking at them like you didn't look at them when you got them in the mail . V. Rankin: I looked at them last night. M. Carey: What kind of shop? What are you planning on doing inside this shop? E. McNeal: Well , it's a machine shop and I will be doing some part- time machining like repair some of these farm equipment - - like if you've got a bearing or something, or a part that breaks. G. Totman: It could be a possibility that once in awhile you could have a piece of machinery setting outside that's there getting repaired. It's not like having a used car. . . . E. McNeal: No , I don't think so . G. Totman: You don't think so? E. McNeal: No, the type of work that I 'd be doing is very small . G. Totman: They'd bring the part to you -- you wouldn't take it off and fix it and put it back on? E. McNeal: No . G. Totman: Okay. So basically then it's all inside work? E. McNeal: It's all inside work, yes. G. Totman: And very little customer traffic? E. McNeal: Very little . 1 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 16 November 1995 V. Rankin: The way this farm machinery is breaking down, there might be a lot of traffic . G. Totman: You're planning on building another structure, not using one that's already there? E. McNeal: No -- just using the one that's there. G. Totman: You've got on your sketch plan a proposed structure . E. McNeal: That's the structure that's on there ; it's the barn. G. Totman: Oh , that's what you're proposing to use. Okay, I took that wrong. E. McNeal: It's a section in the barn that's 24 by 20. G. Totman: Anybody got any questions? M. Carey: There won't be a lot of noise would there? Or a lot of traffic? I can see that. It won't be that much of a problem. V. Rankin: I think it's a good idea. G. Totman: George, would you like to do the honors of the short environmental SEAR Form? G. Van Slyke: I guess we have to, don't we? Board Member George Van Slyke then reads aloud Part H of the Short Environmental Assessment Form. Negative responses were obtained to all questions in Part He Therefore, it was determined by the Planning Board, upon a motion made by Monica Carey, seconded by Verl Rankin, with all members present voting in favor, that the action, based on the information submitted, will not cause any significant adverse environmental impact, resulting in a negative declaration. G. Totman: What the normal procedure on this is a Site Plan Review. Obviously, you've done the first part of it coming to the Planning Board. I don't think we've ever had one yet where there's just a machine shop where there was going to be any outside storage or anything visible from the outside . But part of our responsibility is to make sure that the neighborhood doesn't get harmed by whatever actions we take or, if it's something that's really going to make a big impact on the neighborhood, we hold a public hearing sometimes, or we put stipulations in like how many cars they have outside, or i f it's going to be a noisy operation what the hours of the day are they can operate, and all that sort of thing. Then you get a permit to operate and George Senter, the Code Enforcement Officer, and every year you have to come to get the permit renewed . He checks it out to see that you've followed the stipulations that are in the permit. And I think what we should do here is to have the diagram where it's going to be shown on the permit and you're saying there's going to be no outside activities? E. McNeal: Strictly inside . G. Totman: Strictly inside . If it changes any, you come back to us then we have a change. And there's going to be no outside noises? E. McNeal: Shouldn't be . G. Totman: That will affect the neighborhood -- so we'll put that stipulation in the permit. Does anyone have any further questions they'd like to ask Elmer? G. Van Slyke: No . M. Carey: He's got plenty of parking. 2 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 16 November 1995 G. Totman: If we stipulate in the permit what he's telling us, that it's going to be in this building that is being proposed, that there's going to be no outside visible activities, and no noise that will be detected by the neighbors, and that will be what George will go by when he -- if he has any change in his business or anything, then he'll come back to us to do that. E. McNeal: Yes , G. Totman: If anyone has no objections to what I just said, then we'll put that in the minutes and relay it to George and George can grant him his permit. Now if you want to put up a sign, you've got to go to George and get a sign permit. Somebody want to make a motion? G. Van Slyke: I make the motion with the stipulations as you stated. V. Rankin: I second it. G. Totman: All in favor? (All present indicated they were in favor.) G. Totman: This is the request of Phillip Martinez on 205 Bossard Road (TM # 1417.5) for a Site Plan Review for pyrotechnic devices. George Van Slyke, would you want to read through the SEAR? G. Van Slyke: Yes, I will do that. Board Member George Van Slyke then reads aloud Part H of the Short Environmental Assessment Form. Negative responses were obtained to all questions in Part He Therefore, it was determined by the Planning Board, upon a motion made by Verl Rankin, seconded by Monica Carey, with all members present voting in favor, that the action, based on the information submitted, will not cause any sigiMcant adverse environmental impact, resulting in a negative declaration. G. Totman: What you're talking about here, as I recall from our conversation , is that as time moves on you will probably be doing whatever you're doing in a building outside of the house . P. Martinez: Yes . G. Totman: You might do some testing. But the testing won't make any more noise than a normal gunshot that you hear in the back yard. Is that correct? P. Martinez: Right. M. Carey: And you're going to be the only employee? P. Martinez: Yes , G. Totman: You don't anticipate having a business where you'd put a sign out front or anything like that? P. Martinez: Not at all. No. It won't be open to the general public and shouldn't impact any traffic changes on the road other than UPS trucks for deliveries/ shipping. Hopefully, as the business grows I'll probably be improving the facilities, improving the structure, maybe adding on to the structure, but there again, I'll be consulting with the Planning Board, Building Inspector, and making sure everything is done right to Code and everything. G. Totman: Like I said before, we're supposed to be not only enforcing the rules and regulations set forth in the Town ordinances, but sort of watching over the neighbors who've bought and built in the area because they liked the area; we're not supposed to be approving something that's going to change the nature of the neighborhood and that sort of thing. But -- P. Martinez: Well I have already discussed this with my closest neighbor, Mr. Cronk, and he doesn't have a problem with it. In fact, a great part of the business might be farmed out to him because it' s electronic in nature and -- 3 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 16 November 1995 G. Totman: That's probably why he doesn't have a problem with it. P. Martinez: He's fully aware of what I 'm doing. G. Totman: I'll give the Board my interpretation of this and let's argue about it. I, personally, i f what I'm hearing is true , don't see any problem with it. My suggestion would be to, my thoughts would be, you could hold a public hearing on this, but if you're going to tell the public, they are going to come in with 101 questions because they hear " fireworks. " But when it gets all said and done, because it' s allowed in that area, and unless you can really come up with something from a public hearing -- like I said before at the last meeting - - just because a neighbor doesn't want it -- I think you'd be getting a lot of people excited for nothing . Unless you really come up with something, and he says he's not going to be shooting off skyrockets, bombs, and that sort of thing out there, my suggestion would be to pass the Site Plan Review with the stipulation that he knows -- every year it has to be renewed with George -- and the stipulation will be that there will be no outside activity - - no noises allowed other than the normal gunshot that's already heard in the area -- and if he's going to add to the building, or he's going to change it, then he's got to come back to us for review. If he does anything other than what's on the stipulations for the permit, then George just won't review his permit -- his site plan permit. You did indicate at the last meeting that our request for copies of your statements from the State were unusual, but I would feel more comfortable , because it's a different type of business, and because it's got fireworks in it, I think we would be more comfortable -- at least I would be -- in explaining to people that we really knew what we were doing -- if part of the stipulation in the special permit is that we have a copy of your permits, licenses, or whatever you call them, from the State . This should be a condition of the permit -- that we have a copy of them on file so that you can prove that you are doing what you are doing legally. P. Martinez: I have no problem with that. I'll supply both the State and Federal licenses . G. Totman: Just give them to George so if there' s any question , we can open up the folder and say this is what we approved. P. Martinez: Sure , G. Totman: Has the Board got any thoughts? G. Van Slyke: I just have one question . Looking at the Type II outdoor storage magazine you have -- I assume that's where whatever the explosive part of it is going to be stored -- P. Martinez: Right, G. Van Slyke: What precautions are you taking with that magazine so that someone can't come and break into it? P. Martinez: I'll explain that to you and I 'll also mention that the State inspectors came and inspected the magazine , the location , the security of it, on November 3rd . I called them Tuesday after I received notification that we'd be meeting tonight, and I asked them for a status update on the license application . They said that they have approved it and it's been sent to Brooklyn , NY for final issuance of the license and I should receive that by the end of the month . So they've approved it. Now, what' s required with a Type II magazine is that it meet certain construction requirements. Primarily, this is for resistance to 30-caliber armor-piercing bullet -- it cannot penetrate it. It's made out of quarter-inch thick steel and it's lined with two inches of white oak -- hardwood -- and that's stipulated in both the Federal and State requirements as being bullet resistant. Aside from that, it's got two master padlocks with 3 / 8-inch shackles. They are fully enclosed, except from the bottom , with quarter-inch thick steel hoods. This is to prevent leverage action on the locks; it's to prevent hacksaw or bolt cutters. Besides that, it's chained to a concrete pier that's poured in the ground with quarter-inch steel chain and a 3/8- inch lock. That's basically it. G. Van Slyke: I don't think anyone can do anything with that! ! P. Martinez: It weighs 700 pounds empty. 4 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 16 November 1995 G. Totman: Now if George goes on the site and sees that that's not just the way he says it is, then he notified the people in Albany and they close him down . G. Van Slyke: My main concern was that - - and I didn't fully understand all you had involved in this thing to protect it -- I think you've answered my question very well . G. Senter. I think the ATF would be really involved in what Phil's doing. Are they electronically set off, direct set off, or what? P. Martinez: They are remote electronically set off. G. Senter. What would they set off? Could they set off a barrel of fertilizer with fuel oil? P. Martinez: Oh, no. That is what they call a primary explosive . It's like lead azide or blasting cap. These things are an "electric match . " That's what they call it, so when you initiate it with an electric current, it flames like a match would. And what that's intended to do is to light another fuse, or light the gunpowder that's in the firework device itself. It's not intended to cause a detonation to set off such things as dynamite or plastic explosive , or anything like that. It's what they call a low explosive as opposed to a high explosive -- high explosive being dynamite , TNT, things of that nature. Ammonium nitrate fuel oil is a high explosive . G. Senter. Nothing in relation to this, but you don't think this could work in relation to a primary explosive? P. Martinez: All right -- what you have in a blasting cap , for instance -- a blasting cap has wires on it. This is the electric match head. The difference between this and a blasting cap is a blasting cap has an aluminum sleeve on it, a piece of tubing. It has one of these in it. It has a match head in it, but the match head lights a primary explosive like lead azide . And the lead azide knocks another explosive that's in the blasting cap called HMX. It's a high explosive and that is used as an initiator for a high explosive. It's part of the system that can be made into a detonator. These things are not intended to be sold to anyone who doesn't have a license . The State license is pretty well in process and I should be receiving that shortly. I'm just waiting to hear from the Federal, the ATF, and I don't know whether they are affected by this - -- G. Totman: What would George inspect to make sure -- G. Van Slyke: The only thing George would have to inspect that really wouldn't be covered by the government is the building he's going to put them together in . M. Carey: It is covered by the government, right? G. Totman: What he's going to have to do is renew his license, and he's going to have to get a permit, and if the permit says he's going to have no outside activity, and the noise that he's generating will not exceed that of the normal neighborhood gunshot that you might hear, so if anybody complains about what he's doing up there, or somebody's going to tell somebody that "that guy down the road is making fireworks. " You can't get out of it; somebody's going to be saying that. What I 'm looking for here is so that we've got something here that says "no, he' s not making fireworks - - here's what he's doing. " And he's going to come in every year and renew it with George and George is going to be checking on it. P. Martinez: Something that's surprised me, and I didn't find it out until I started getting into the licensing process, is -- in fact you can look this up yourself -- this is a copy of Industrial Code 39, NYS -- and on about the third or fourth page in , let me read you something: "No person shall keep or store explosives unless a certificate therefore shall be/has been issued by the Commissioner as herein provided . But this requirement shall not apply to the storage at any one time by farmers of 200 pounds or less of blasting explosives for agricultural purposes . " A farmer could have 200 pounds of dynamite . And I asked the State inspectors when they visited me on November 3rd about this. And they said, oh yes, that's right. They don't need a magazine as long as they have it for blasting stumps or whatever. So what I'll be doing is probably going to have less explosive power than what my farmer neighbor could have . 5 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 16 November 1995 G. Totman: Without having a permit at all . P. Martinez: Right, G. Senter. All a farmer needs is some PVC and some ammonium nitrate . He could blow some mean stumps out with that stuff. P. Martinez: So the more you read into what's allowed, a lot of people aren't aware of what they can do and what's next door to them if they live next door to a farmer. V. Rankin: This has been interesting. I didn't know this. P. Martinez: What I'm saying is, I 'm establishing the business, following all the rules and regulations for what I'm going to be doing, and that's what you should tell anybody that asks the question. People will always point to the fireworks plant that blew up in Long Island . In that situation, you had distances that were less than the State requirements, and you're talking tons of explosives that went up -- tons. The company that I shoot fireworks for for your 4th of July in Groton , they were established in 1947 and never have had an accident. I learned how they do things up there , and I plan on running my plant the same way. And a lot has to do with cleanliness. Cleaning up your work area each day, making sure there's no loose powder or anything around . G. Van Slyke: The reason I asked the question about the box and getting into it -- they used to manufacture, years ago, fireworks over near Virgil and some kids broke in and got some and they had cherry bombs in the car and were driving down and they blew the car up because they went to throw one and it went out their window, but it came back in the back room and blew the kids up. That's why I asked the question. Okay, we still have to make a motion on this, right? G. Totman: Do you want to make a motion? G. Van Slyke: I make a motion we preclude the public hearing on this, and I also make a motion that we approve the Site Plan Review with the stipulation of no outside storage , no more noise than normal gunshots in the area, that we get copies of all necessary State and Federal permits . P. Martinez: I would like clarification on "outside storage . " What do you mean by that? G. Van Slyke: No outside activities , not storage . G. Totman: What would you store on the outside? G. Van Slyke: He's got to store this on the outside -- that's where his magazine is. G. Totman: Yes, but that's not storage . That's a device that he's going to use to activate -- V. Rankin: No , P. Martinez: No , that's -- G. Van Slyke: No, that's a storage magazine . G. Totman: Oh - - that's storage for these things? No outside activities. Then that's not right then , either. P. Martinez: There's going to be outside activities, too. G. Totman: No outside storage visible -- no visible outside storage from the neighborhood. P. Martinez: The storage is going to be secure. . . G. Totman: How big is this thing you're talking about? 6 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 16 November 1995 P. Martinez: whether it's in the work building or it's outside in the magazine . It has to be . G. Totman: Okay, but what I'm saying is -- that thing you're talking about you're going to store these things in, how big could it be? G. Van Slyke: What's that got to do with it, George? P. Martinez: How big could it be? G. Totman: How small could it be? P. Martinez: The Seneca Army Depot has these things and they are --- Go Totman: It's going to be like a small structure , right? It's going to be locked up and these things are going to be inside of it. So they're not going to be stored outside; they are going to be stored within this containment. So what my thought was is -- that's like a little building out there -- a small structure or something that's all locked up and these things are stored inside of it. They're not stored outdoors. P. Martinez: Well no -- they're within a weather-tight box. M. Carey: They're inside a structure . P. Martinez: A little more education, I guess. There's five classes of magazines. There's a Type I , Type II , Type III , IV and V. A Type I is more like a building; it's a fixed structure that can be made out of concrete block filled with sand . It has a quarter-inch thick steel door on it with two or three inches of hardwood . It has the two shrouded lock enclosures for your padlocks, and a roof on it. It's like a little building. What I have is a Type II outdoor which is considered a portable magazine . It can be moved from spot to spot on the property, but if you move it from one spot to another, it still has to meet the requirements of setback distances, safe distances from any structures, roads, overhead wires, so on and so forth . They have something called a Type II portable indoor magazine . It can be stored within a building, but not an occupied structure. It could be like a gunsmith shop to store black powder. The Type III is a strictly portable storage magazine used for transporting explosives from the primary storage to a job site -- somebody blasting a road . G. Totman: Okay. I'm the inspector and I walk on your property. When I walk on your property, tell me -- and I'm not sure what I'm going to be looking for -- tell me what visually I'm going to see to see this thing you're talking about. I'm going to see something that's -- P. Martinez: It looks like a chest freezer with a lid on it. G. Totman: That's what I'm getting at. So what I'm saying -- no outside storage of materials -- these are stored inside of something, correct? P. Martinez: Yes they are, but the way you've got it worded -- G. Totman: How would this be? No outdoor storage , except in a State-approved magazine . G. Van Slyke: That's what I move anyway. V. Rankin: And I second it. G. Van Slyke: And we're all in favor of it, right? (All Board members present acknowledged their approval.) See , George -- by the time you've got it written down, we'll have it passed . G. Totman: Okay. No outside storage of materials except in a State-approved magazine; generates no more outside noise than a normal gunshot that is common in the area. The only reason to put that in there, and it sounds picky, but if somebody complains, George has got something to go by. Otherwise 7 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 16 November 1995 he has nothing to go by. And copies of all required State and Federal permits are to be placed an file in this office. You made the motion, George. G. Van Slyke: Yes. And we seconded it and we all passed it. G. Totman: Nobody said no? M. Carey: Nobody said no. P. Martinez: As soon as I get my licensing, I'll get copies to you . G. Totman: You don't need approval from us to get your license? P. Martinez: The State inspectors wanted to know if I had any communication with the Town. I said yes, I did . They said okay. The only other thing that they have to do is once the license is granted, they notify the fire department that there's an explosive storage magazine on the property . G. Totman: Okay. P. Martinez: Thanks very much . Is there a fee? G. Totman: George, is it $25 now? G. Senter. I think it is. G. Totman: Carl wants to have a firearms thing. (Carl S. Scheffier - Application for Special Permit - TM # 34- 1 -4) . Basically, we're going to do almost exactly the same thing here. As I understand it, if I want a particular kind of a gun, I go to you and you will try to locate it for me and sell it to me . You're not running a store where people come in and buy things. You're going to have a firearms license C. Scheffier: Yes. I have that. G. Totman: More of a specialty thing where you take care of special orders from people rather than having a store or display shop . Is that correct? C. Scheffier: Yes. I'm too busy with the farm to run a store too. G. Totman: Have I got the right idea? C. Scheier: Pretty much . I buy guns occasionally from people who come in and want to sell them . Or if I go to a gun show I'll buy a firearm and I keep a few in stock -- shotguns, rifles, and hand guns. I go to gun shows -- there's one in Cortland . I've done this the last two or three years. Elmira -- and Endicott. G. Totman: Now as far as your home activity, are you planning on having a sign out saying this is a gun shop , or anything like that? C. Scheffier: No sign . G. Totman: So what -- supposing you didn't come to us at all -- like you're doing legally — how would we know you're doing something? M. Carey: Verl would know. V. Rankin: Somebody would tattle . G. Totman: I know - but what's visible? 8 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 16 November 1995 firearms and do gunsmithing on his property. " I have nothing wrong with it if you want to do a store . We just do the normal thing, have a public hearing or whatever, but that's not really what you're talking about doing anyway . C. Scheffier: Right. G. Totman: You normally -- if somebody knows you've got a gun, they're going to drop by and see if it's one they want to buy. C. Scheier: Occasionally. A couple of weeks ago I put an ad in the Shopper. G. Totman: Would you put a sign out saying this is a gunsmith shop or something like that? C. Scheffier: No . No sign. V. Rankin: It's a hobby type thing. C. Scheffier: Right. G. Totman: Any action we take we would approve it on the condition it's as he's presented it to us tonight, which means that he's not going to put a sign out saying he's running a business, he's going to just have a normal hobby operation where somebody knows he's got something and he wants to sell it ; like if I wanted to sell my garden tractor I'd put in ad in the Shopper and say it's for sale so that the stipulation on the permit would probably say that he's got approval to sell retail firearms from his house, not as a business but as a hobby. Does that make sense? C. Scheffier: It does to me. G. Totman: George? G. Senter. I have no problem with it. G. Totman: It's something that if he didn't come to us, we wouldn't know what he was doing anyway. There's no sense going through this if we don't do something. G. Senter. I have no problem with it. G. Totman: Okay, George Van Slyke would you please -- Board Member George Van Slyke then reads aloud Part H of the Short Environmental Assessment Form. Negative responses were obtained to all questions in Part He Therefore, it was determined by the Planning Board, upon a motion made by Monica Carey, seconded by Verl Rankin, with all members present voting in favor, that the action, based on the information submitted, will not cause any significant adverse environmental impact, resulting in a negative declaration. G. Totman: That part is passed. Now, we've got to act on the request. G. Van Slyke: Okay, read how you want to word this thing and then we'll do something . V. Rankin: Don't screw it up like you did the last one. G. Totman: I would like to have it read, if it's approved , that it's approved with the stipulation that there will be no outside sign or activities that can be visible from the neighbors that there is a business being operated . Anybody have any other things they want? And Mr. Scheffler has stated that he can live with that, didn't you? C. Scheffier: Yes, G. Van Slyke: So moved . 10 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 16 November 1995 V. Rankin: I'll second it. G. Totman: All in favor? (All indicated they were in favor.) Carried . Thank you . C. Scheffier: Do you want copies of those licenses to show that -- G. Totman: Sure. It will go in your file. C. Scheffler: You have to renew with the State every two years, and with the Federal, every three . G. Totman: Robert. (Robert Walpole - Application for Review & Approval of Subdivision - Part of TM # 16- 1-7.2 ) V. Rankin: This is something we talked about before isn't it? R. Walpole. Yes. I was here, I think, in September. The October one would have been after the three years, so -- Me Carey: This is that three-year deal . R Walpole: Bishop is selling the balance of the road frontage on Chipman Corners Road, 6,935 acres. The balance of the property to the east will be retained by Bishop who also owns the balance of the property which will all come off Sears Road now. Everything is on Chipman Corners Road . So if he sells anything off Sears Road . . . M. Carey: It looks like everything meets the requirements; I guess there's no problem with it. It has enough road frontage . V. Rankin: Who's buying it? R. Walpole. Somebody from Arizona, Sue Warner. She's going to put a couple of homes in there - - one for her mother and, I don't know, one for one of the kids, or one for herself. V. Rankin: She wants to come back here? R. Walpole, I guess all of her family is back here . Her mother is still here . G. Van Slyke: Okay. Are we ready? M. Carey: Yes, Board Member George Van Slyke then reads aloud Part H of the Short Environmental Assessment Form. Negative responses were obtained to all questions in Part He Therefore, it was determined by the Planning Board, upon a motion made by Monica Carey, seconded by Verl Rankin, with all members present voting in favor, that the action, based on the information submitted, will not cause any significant adverse environmental impact, resulting in a negative declaration. M. Carey: I now make a motion that we pass this boundary change as presented, with no public hearing . V. Rankin: I'll second it. G. Totman: All in favor? (All members present indicated they were in favor. ) Now for the minutes. M. Carey: I make a motion that we approve the minutes of our October meeting as submitted. G. Van Slyke: I second . 11 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 16 November 1995 G. Totman: Any questions? All in favor? (All members present indicated they were in favor. ) Now, at the last Town Board meeting -- M. Carey. Is George supposed to present this to us? G. Totman: At the last Town Board meeting - now I heard this from the Deputy Clerk and the Town Clerk that they discussed this, and then when I read the minutes of the Town Board, and I ' m giving you a copy of that page, there was somebody complaining that there's people running motorcycles and having motorcycle get-togethers in the field in close proximity to her house. She's complaining that the noise is bothering her so much that they have to go inside and close the windows and it's a real hassle to the neighborhood . The Town Board discussed it, and the Town Attorney said if they wanted to, they could get an ordinance - - a noise ordinance -- but he also told them that it's very , very hard to enforce, which is exactly right. I don't know of any town around us that does have this type of ordinance . But from their minutes it says the Town Clerk and the Code Enforcement Officer discussed it and it was suggested by the Board that they turn it over to the Planning Board. The Town Board requested that the Planning Board take this on for the review and make a recommendation to the next Town Board meeting in November, which is next Monday night. So I'm bringing it to the Planning Board to see what you would like to do about it. Before I give you my opinion, has anybody got any thoughts on it? V. Rankin: Well, I know about this whole situation because my grandson rides a motorcycle over there -- I imagine some on Houston -- and I don't know where else -- with the Houston kid, Kevin Reeves (?) and they do have some guys come up there and fool around some . But it's not a regular thing . It happens maybe once in a while. Not every day in the week. And I don't see anything wrong with it. G. Van Slyke: Where does Sperger live? V. Rankin: Right to the top of Spring Street hill. She lives in the country . Not way out, but there's a half a dozen houses around there. M. Carey: It's like a little settlement out there . V. Rankin: But I don't think this is hurting anybody but her. Nobody else in the neighborhood is complaining . G. Totman: Well , does the Planning Board want to take some time to look up other ordinances, or do you want to make a recommendation to the Town Board tonight, or do you want to make a suggestion and ask the Town Board to ask the Town Attorney to look up the Penal Law under section 240-20 where it says in there that they can call the police and have them, under disorderly conduct, arrested for unreasonable noise? M. Carey: I take the Penal Law. V. Rankin: I say scrap the whole thing. G. Totman: I understand what you're saying, Verl, but we do have to make some kind of a decision . G. Van Slyke: I think for us to write an ordinance against noise -- that means that if a guys got a noisy tractor and he's out in his field plowing and you can't sleep that night you're going to get the guy arrested? G. Totman: Let me just give you my version if I can . The Town Board is asking us to review it and make a recommendation . G. Van Slyke: I reviewed it. G. Totman: And maybe this is wrong, but from my standpoint of doing the same type of work that the CEO does here in Groton, only for a much larger town that does not have a noise ordinance and it has a lot more density in the town than the Town of Groton has, the other towns around us do not have this noise ordinance mainly because of the fact that it's almost impossible to enforce. You've got to 12 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 16 November 1995 buy a machine to go out and check the level of noise . You've got to set the level of noise you're going to accept from a certain distance , and all that sort of stuff, and so if these people are out there racing a motorcycle, they've got to call up George. George is going to go out there and set up his machine to see i f it's within a certain distance of a house -- G. Van Slyke: By that time they're gone . G. Totman: And once you get something like that in, then every time somebody hears a noise around their neighborhood, they're going to call George up and have him come out and check it and see V. Rankin: You can't mow your lawn at 9 o'clock at night or anything. G. Totman: I guess my feeling is we are the Planning Board and we operate at the whim of the Town Board, basically, -- there's a better word for it -- and if they really want us to look further and see what other towns have done for ordinances and take some samples and present them to them, then I think they should ask us for it. But they only asked us for a recommendation . I, personally, would like to recommend that we think it would be an insurmountable thing to ask a part-time Zoning Officer to handle -- George doesn't work full time, he works part time. And we suggest they look up the Penal Law, Section 240-20. Under that Penal Law, people have a right to call the police and have somebody arrested if they're willing to sign a complaint that they're making an unreasonable noise . M. Carey: I agree totally with that. G. Van Slyke: I agree with that. G. Totman: Does anybody want to make that a motion? M. Carey: I'll make that a motion . G. Van Slyke: I'll second it. G. Totman: All in favor? (Monica Carey, George Van Slyke , and George Totman were in favor) . Opposed? (Verl Rankin was opposed .) Would anyone like to make a motion to adjourn the meeting? G. Van Slyke: I so move . M. Carey: I second it. The meeting was adjourned at 9*45 p.m. Respectfully submitted , Goan E . Fitch Recording Secretary 13