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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1995-07-20 TOWN OF GROTON PLANNING BOARD Thursday, 20 July 1995 Board Members (*present) Others Present *George Totman, Chairman Roger Gleason 'Monica Carey Joan E. Fitch , Recording Secretary Sheldon Clark Teresa Robinson , Town Supervisor *Jeff Lewis *Verl Rankin *George VanSlyke *Cecil Twigg The meeting was called to order at 8 :06 p.m. by Chairman Totman. G. Totman: Why don't we get started on the meeting. We 'll bypass the minutes as long as Roger's here. We've got a quorum. Roger called me a couple times this week and wanted to know when the next Board meeting was. I told him it was tonight and that we didn't have anything else on the agenda, so if he wanted to come down and we had a quorum we could discuss it with him . So we do have a quorum and we can discuss with Roger -- he's got a lot that somebody wants to buy that, from what he told me, appears to be like a flag lot. Roger, are you going to explain what you got? It Gleason: I got some more copies, but I haven't got that yellow. I can mark up a few more . G. VanSlyke: What to me is north on this thing? R. Gleason: Top of it . G. Totman: Roger, the north side of that -- how long is it? R. Gleason: 625. G. Totman: 625 -- it's kind of hard to read. Okay. And on the other side it's 625 also? R. Gleason: Near as I -- these are approximate. G. VanSlyke: Is this the one we looked at previously when you sold off -- you were subdividing? R. Gleason: Well, yes , we did one just last year right over on Lick Street here . G. VanSlyke: We did a boundary change , was it? R. Gleason: There was a boundary change and , well, I sold a lot and we've done some previous. . . . G. Totman: We've never had this one before , George, because we've never been able to do flag lots before . G. VanSlyke: No, but I 'm saying this is that same parcel that we did . . . . G. Totman: Same parcel of land . R. Gleason: Right there where it says M & L Rood is where we did that last year. G. VanSlyke: It was a boundary change , right? R. Gleason: They also moved a boundary and I swapped some land with my son . G. VanSlyke: Okay, Yes. Right. Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting July 20, 1995 M. Carey: So how wide is the flag pole? G. Totman: Sixty feet . R. Gleason. It's 60 feet in this case because I had a 60-foot right-of-way there . Now according to your book, 50 feet is the maximum width . So I wasn't sure what that's going to do. It says 20 minimum, 50 maximum . G. Totn=9 Well, I guess I better go back -- I didn't know we set a maximum . M. Carey: I didn't know we put a maximum on it. G. VanSlyke: I didn't know that there was a maximum on the flag lot. R. Gleason: I wondered about it. CO Twigg: Yes there was. And I remember at the time I didn't like it. G. Totman: I wouldn't either. C. TVigg. I said something about it at the time. R. Gleason: Flag lot. Page 36. CO T�vigg: I said what difference does it make how wide it is as long as it's the 15 or 20 feet. R. Gleason. Well, there 's a minimum. . . . M. Carey: I know, but why would you need a maximum on it? R Gleason. At least if I read it right. . . C. Twigg: What if you're going to build a road? That's 60. M. Carey: That's 60, R. Gleason: You're not going to build a road because you're going to have your own driveway. G. VanSlyke: It shouldn't make any difference. V. Rankin: Are these new ordinances out? G. Totman: Yes. The ones that we have, the draft, are the ones they passed . C. Wimp They're official . G. Totman: That's what I 've got is the draft. G. VanSlyke: The one we played with? G. Totman: Yes, G. VanSlyke: I don't know where mine is . G. Totman: It does say 50 feet. CO Twiggy We done it and I said something about it then. I said why have a maximum. G. Totman: Because our regular lot is 150 feet. I can't remember why we did that. 2 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting July 20, 1995 CO Twigg: And I said at the time . . . . M. Carey, Maybe it was supposed to be 150 feet. G. Totman: I mean you might have a lot lined up somewheres that might be 120 feet. Because you can't build in the pole of the flagpole . So it. . . Ce Twigg: That was what -- this is what 1 think was the argument that I got was so that people wouldn't be building in the pole . G. VanSlyke: How can they build in the pole? M. Carey: Because if they had 150 feet they could. . . . G. VanSlyke: You're not going to get a roadway through if you build in 150-foot sections. G. Totman: No. I guess, George , what she meant is that if you wound up by the nature of the lay of the lands were divided, you might on the end , or in the center someplace, have a lot that's only 120 feet. It's not big enough to build on, but you might have four acres out in back. So that 120 feet could be your flagpole. And so you can't build on that, but you can develop the land out back. G. VanSlyke: What was the reasoning why we wouldn't want them to build on it? G. Totman: I don't remember even why. . . . CO TW199: Because they were afraid it wouldn't be kept up and the weeds wouldn't be mowed on it. G. Totman: Who's they? CO Twigg: The rest of you guys was talking about it. Because I brought it up when that thing come up. G. Totman: Well , anyway, that does create a problem . Who owns McMasters? R. Gleason: Abe McMasters, G. Totman: Who owns McMasters -- geez. R. Gleason: There's another possibility I may do because we haven't finalized this thing . I conceivably could divide that thing in two and sell -- originally I wanted to sell the guy a piece up behind Harrington's, but he didn't want to go that far in . Conceivably I could sell him the five acres to the east of the flag pole . . . . and keep another lot up behind there. . . G. Totman: Why don't you let his lot go all the way over in back of McMasters and then what you add to there, add to that other lot and then you can have two -- 30 each . R. Gleason: That's a possibility. The only reason we didn't do this is basically he 's going to build down in that little job . And the rest of it do nothing and I'm going to keep farming it. G. Totman: Yes. But if you just go over to the end of McMasters' plot there , that will give you two good-sized lots in there . CO TwiWO With one pole . G. Totman: Well , one pole coming down , but land-ownerwise it will be two strips of land owned by two different people . Roger will still own 30 feet off that other lot and the new guy will have 30 feet to his lot. CO Twigg: I think that's the way you better go. 3 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting July 20, 1995 R. Gleason. It's conceivable I can do it that way and see what the guy says. G. Totman: Then if the other guy really likes it out there . . . . So anyway, anybody else got any comments? Are you just testing the waters, or do you really have a sale? R. Gleason: I've got a man that wants to buy. As a matter of fact, he wants to have a closing by September 15th -- he'd like to the first, but I said I didn't think there was anyway possible to do it that fast. Lawyers don't move quite that quick. So the question is, if we do this . . . G. VanSlyke: Is that going to trigger another division? R. Gleason: That's the other question that was raised . G. VanSlyke: Because somehow -- I don't know, my memory's short too but I can' t remember -- I thought we had - - we did a boundary change . I forgot what we were talking about that time, George, it's been so long since he was in and I know it doesn't count, but weren't we talking about what you'd do with the property? M. Carey: It seems as though we didn't want him to sell it off because it was going to throw it into a subdivision. Is that right, Roger? R Gleason: Well, yes, we did , we did. Let's back up . I sold property off of this parcel in the past, but the time limit has gone by so . . . M. Carey: It's been over the two years. R. Gleason: I sold to Roods -- L & M -- that I sold as one lot. In order to keep giving 200 feet, my son wanted -- it was the parcel on the corner -- so what we did was. . . M. Carey: But those were just boundary changes. R. Gleason: we made boundary changes there and so he -- I ended up with 200 feet of that. . G. VanSlyke: Into the clover field. R. Gleason. Yes. There is another step upward going into the clover field above between Maccou and Rood. G. VanSlyke: Oh , okay. Wait a minute here --you 've got 200 feet down here at the bottom just below Rood? R. Gleason: Yes, There's 200 feet there. M. Carey: Also, where Maccou is used to be all one parcel. G. VanSlyke: You're still talking about that same tax parcel , right? R. Gleason: Right. It's the same tax parcel 16- 1 - 18. 2 . G. VanSlyke: Okay, Roger, help us out a little bit here . Which ones do you figure have already gone beyond the time limit? IL Gleason. 18. 169 18 , 149 18. 119 18 . 139 18. 15 and actually McMasters. G. Totman: That's not counted into that though . CO Twigg: Well, Drake . You only sold one off in the last three years then . 4 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting July 20, 1995 M Gleason. Rood is the only one . L & M Rood's the only one that was sold last year. The other ones were back in the 8Os. But L & M Rood was done in 1994, We did not do a subdivision. G. VanSlyke: Wait a minute . Let's go back to what George said about what you should do . Now if he splits this into two parcels and sells . . . CO Twigg: But he's only going to split it once now, though . He isn't going to sell both now. M. Carey: Are you asking for a subdivision on this? R. Gleason. Right now I'm really trying to figure out which way to go . I don't know. At this point I 'd only sell one . G. VanSlyke: . . .both of those off the flag. R. Gleason: If we did it off the flag, at this point I 'd only sell one . G. VanSlyke: You'd only sell one . G. Totman: You would create two, but would sell one. R. Gleason: I'd create two. Actually, although that other flag would be still okay because it would be right attached to this. If I didn't have the leg on it I could do it. Even if we didn't have the flag and I came up here, this came way up here, this could still be okay because it's attached to the rest of the. . . . G. Totman: That line is there , though . Isn't that a subdivision? R. Gleason: No. No. My line goes way up here. That's just the end of the fields. G. VanSlyke: This is the edge of the field? R. Gleason: That's an edge of the field , that's all . G. Totman: It might save you a problem later on by doing it that way. R. Gleason. What do you mean? G. Totman: If you . . . . R. Gleason: I say -- I know -- I'd leave -- I 'd do what you say. But I say legally I wouldn't have to. If it caused a problem I wouldn't do it. G. Totman: That's right, you 're right. R. Gleason: Well , I could sell it to Harrington or somebody. But the main thing is, if I can just come in and present this and that's it, or do we have to go to a public hearing and all that? It has to do with time to tell the guy how long it's going to take , that's the main thing. M. Carey: I don't have my book with me . What were the flag lot subdivision rules? CO TWIWO The flag lot comes before the Board, the same as a subdivision . M. Carey: Right. But if he's only asking for one flag. . . . C. TwiWe The same as a subdivision. G. Totman: A rural flag lot subdivision is a subdivision of land during a three-year period that results in one or two flag lots, each of which is 5 acres or more and which does not include new streets, utilities, and that sort of thing. . . . does not conflict with this Code , the official map , or any other Town 5 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting July 20, 1995 policy, and does not adversely affect the use or development of adjoining land . A rural flag lot subdivision is subject to the rural subdivision processes, Section 220-229. And so 220 and 229 . . . . V. Rankin: How much land is there in those two there? R. Gleason, Well, if I do it the way I have it, there's 7 .2 as near as I can . . . . V. Rankin: The whole thing. G . Totman , R. Gleason (at same time) : George says "So according to this" while Roger says (talking to Verl) , "But the guy wants to buy 5" while George continues his sentence "we treat it the same" . . . V. Rankin: But didn't he just say something about 5 acres? G. Totman (at same time) : as a minor subdivision. G. VanSlyke: Yes, G. Totman: Each one of these have got to have at least 5 acres. R. Gleason. Yes, right. But I can make 5 acres by going a little farther north . G. VanSlyke: Or further east. R. Gleason, Well, no, what I 'm saying is that George suggested making two lots -- or the capability of having two lots. . . G. VanSlyke: Right. That's right. . . . R. Gleason. then I could go up here on the west side. . . G. VanSlyke: In the clover field? R. Gleason: further to the north and make -- I 'd go into the woods. . . . G. Totman: Let's, let's. . . R. Gleason. to get 5 acres on the left side. And I can go to the east and make 5 acres on the right side. G. Totman: Let me step ahead a half an hour. In the event that this Board passes the two-lot flag lot subdivision, they would do it on the premise that it wouldn' t be legally done until you bring a surveyor map in showing at least the 5 acres and complying with the Ordinance . R. Gleason, Right, I , 1 figure that if. . . . G. Totman: So it might save a lot of (Roger & George talked at same time here -- couldn't understand) . R. Gleason. and I come to the next Board meeting (beginning of sentence lost under GT's voice) . G. Totman: Yes, R. Gleason. And then , the main thing, I knew I 'd have to come to the next Board meeting, the question is . . . . . G. Totman: If we approved it tonight, you could come back anytime with the surveyor map showing the two lots, showing that they meet the rules, and it could be approved . R. Gleason: So by September 1 , the whole. . . . 6 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting July 20, 1995 G. Totman: If it was approved tonight by the Planning Board , and if they decided not to have a public hearing, or if they decided to have a public hearing, that would be in August, then either way it's theoretically possible to have it by September 1st. G. VanSlyke: And that will trigger a minor, right? G. Totman: Yes, it's a minor subdivision . Co Twigg: But, George , if you 're saying if we could approve this subdivision tonight, then when he gets his maps around and gets them in and you sign them, he'd be set to go. G. Totman: That's right, that's exactly. . . . CO TWI g: You wouldn't have to wait until the next meeting. G. Totman: That's right. If we approve them tonight. C. Twigg: I don't think he understands it that way. IL Gleason. Oh , I -- well -- the main thing I kind of hate to have you approve it tonight is because . . . . G. Totman: Well it's not approved until you bring it in and have it signed. R. Gleason: Okay. Ibe got to go back to the guy. . . . G. Totman: What I 'm saying is -- we can approve it, but that doesn 't make it official until you bring it in and have it signed. R. Gleason. Right. G. Totman: If you don't bring it in and have it signed, then it's not approved . R. Gleason. Right, right. C. Twigg: And when he signs it, he 'll make sure it meets the requirements. R. Gleason: Yes. Okay, I understand that, but what I 'm getting at is if I had to -- okay, you could approve it with like we 're talking. He may come back and say no , I just want to have it just like I got it here. G. Totman: Then you can just tell me at the next meeting and we'll make it null and void . R. Gleason: Then you'd have to approve a different one, but you could still conceivably have it done before September 1 anyway, that's the main thing. G. Totman: Correct you are. Good morning (George speaks to Teresa Robinson who just entered the room. ) I just want to make these new rules that we got that we didn't change anything so we don't get in trouble . We can still bypass a public hearing on a minor subdivision . A major you automatically have to have a public hearing. R. Gleason, Right. That's what I wasn't sure of if this triggered a major or not. That's what I wasn't sure of. G. VanSlyke: If those lots that you claim are all past, they're gone , the time limit, then. . . G. Totman: It says here a minor subdivision public hearing may be held . Where with a major, it says shall be held . IL Gleason, What I wasn't sure about was where I sold that there to Rood last year. 7 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting duly 20, 1995 G. Totman: So, basically, you haven't made out an application or anything yet have you? R. Gleason, Well I didn't want to do anything until I -- I just talked to him three or four days ago, this week, so. . . . G. VanSlyke: Why would we -- if he's not in any big hurry to do this, why can't this wait until the next meeting, George? G. Totman: Well it could. But I just thought because you're all here. . . . R. Gleason, Well, I 'm not sure of the exact dimensions. . . CO Twigg: You don't have to have, necessarily, the exact dimensions. G. Totman: We had George (referring to Senter) lay out some SEAR things for us at one time . R. Gleason, We have to do that thing. G. VanSlyke: You don't thing he's going to leave those unlocked do you , George? G. Totman: Guess we don't find any. G. VanSlyke: George, can I ask a question? What is the immediacy of this? That we do it tonight. G. Totman: There isn't any, that I know of. Seriously. G. VanSlyke: It doesn't seem like Roger's prepared. R. Gleason, The main thing I was here to get is an idea of what Ibe got to do. G. VanSlyke: You're here for information about what you had to do . R Gleason. Right. G. Totman: I just happened to think that at one time we asked them to make some up because sometimes we didn't have them, but I don't know where they are. G. VanSlyke: I think we've given him the information . G. Totman: We can't do anything without them. He's got to make out an application anyway. R. Gleason, Until I get the dimensions of it . I just wanted to make sure of what I had to do , especially when I saw that business about 50 feet minimum, I thought. . . G. Totman: Maximum , R Gleason: Maximum, excuse me. G. Totman: God, I don't remember doing that. C. Twigg: Go back through the minutes. R Gleason, I mean it's conceivable -- now, I have a similar sort of a thing -- do you people need those maps? C. Twlgg: Well, I don't need it. J. Pitch: I need a tax map number. G. Totman: I 'll give you mine . 8 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting July 20, 1995 G. VanSlyke: Okay, 16- 1 - 18, 12 , G. Totman: When are you going to retire and go south, Roger? R. Gleason, This sort of is working toward it. G. VanSlyke: You won't have any land left to work. R. Gleason: I 've been approached -- actually by Joe Neville -- up at the top of the hill on 222 , Joe runs the farm now, Francis is the mailman . . . G. Totman: Okay. Francis' son. M. Carey: Francis is the father. Chris is the son . V. Rankin: He's off of Joe . R. Gleason: Well, anyway -- again we 're talking about something that may occur sometime within the next year. And again, it goes back to this flag business. He is concerned about maintaining enough possible land because he rents from several people that could conceivably could come in development and . . . G. Totman: he'd lose his tillable land . R. Gleason: Yes . So he was looking at making a deal with me at some point that I would sell him a parcel back in the southwest corner of my farm which doesn't actually adjoin him at the present time . Talbot's comes in between, but it's right close and he figures that Talbots will probably be selling out one of these days and he can buy some of that too . And my question is this backs into this business about flag lots again . But we also were involved here -- there is a ditch here. G. Totman: Wait. Nobody can see what you're. . . R. Gleason: Well , I 'm sorry -- okay. That's the only one. . . . now wait a minute . G. Totman: He's talking about. . . R. Gleason, This is tax parcel 121 - 1 -21 . 2 . G. VanSlyke: We'll get right to work on this. V. Rankin: He don't know where he's at. G. VanSlyke: He's in an open ditch is where he is. G. Totman: I think what Roger is saying is that the only way that Neville can buy this off of Roger, because the lands don't adjoin , is so along that one side -- on the west side -- he's got to buy a strip that goes out to Old Stage Road to make it legal. R. Gleason: That's right. That's the question that backs into the flag lot. G. Totman: That's right. Because otherwise if it bordered his property he could just buy it and have a boundary change . R. Gleason. Where the question comes in on this is, when I read about the flag lot, maximum width of 50 feet, there is a ditch in here, drainage, and I 'm just simply. . . . G. Totman: Where 's the drainage ditch? 9 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting July 20, 1995 R. Gleason: It comes down right through here , makes a right turn, goes to the road , then goes down along here . Neville would like to have control - - I mean I would, too, because it drains this whole area up in here . . . G. Totman: And it goes across the spot where you need the pole . M Gleason: Right. Right . So the ditch itself is probably going to occupy probably 20 to 30 feet anyway . G. Totman: It doesn't go parallel with that, it goes across it. R. Gleason: Well, it would go parallel with the flag right here. G. VanSlyke: Where the heck have you got the flag? G. Totman: Right here . G. VariSlyke: It's coming from up here. . . R Gleason: Stage Road here. Okay. Right here by the flag. G. Totman: If the ditch covers about 20 feet, and they require 50, you 've still got 20 feet you could use to get back in there. R. Gleason: Part of the ditch , however, is on the parcel -- part of it would be on this other. . . G. Totman* Well, then you don't have to worry about it. You 're just coming over into this lot -- you see , you've got at least 20 usable feet over here -- that's all you've got to worry about. R Gleason: I guess, I see -- you 'd have to have 20 more for a roadway. He was concerned about having enough space to. . . G. Totman: As long as you've got 20 usable feet. Now you 're going to have to go up 30 feet to get 20 usable feet. R. Gleason: The main thing was we'd have to survey to see exactly. . . G. Totman: You're asking if it's doable to do it. You've got more than enough acreage required . It's nothing but farm land anyway. R. Gleason: Right. G. Totman: The way the Ordinance is written, that falls within the legal limits of the flag lot. ILGleason, I thought that was okay, but I just wanted to come in and check on that before . . . . G. Totman: Now if he can buy a little land off of Talbot, then it would be nothing but a boundary change. R Gleason: At this point, Talbots probably wouldn't. But I don't know -- that's something else . G. Totman: He's just making his farm bigger, that's all. IL Gleason: At the present time , he would just have -- but I would continue to be running that for now, until I decide to. . . G. Totman: He 's looking for it as an insurance policy. IL Gleason: Right. 10 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting July 20, 1995 V. Rankin: Who owns this land here, Howell? R. Gleason: It's my cousin, Roger Howe. C* Twige: George, you can't sell a landlocked piece of land? G. Totman: That's correct. You 've got to have road frontage, CO Twigg: You 've got to have road frontage even to sell? G. Totman: That's why we made the flag lot, so we could use some of those places, C. Twigg. You've got to have road frontage to build on it. G. Totman: Yes. But if they -- if you allowed them to buy it without road frontage , the first thing they'd do is come in here the next month and want to build on it. And George would say no, you don't have any road frontage . C. Twigg: Then it would be a hardship . G. Totman: No. You created it yourself. They couldn't have a hardship because they created it, R. Gleason: Actually, it goes a little deeper and it shows here on the map that it's cut off so I redrew the yellow line back, but I 'm not exactly sure how far back it does go, G. Totman: Well , it's way over five acres, we know that. Way over the required amount. Anybody see any problem with that? R. Gleason: As long as I'm there, I 'm not all that hep about selling that, G. Totman: What's that? R. Gleason: This frontage , I 'm right here , and I 'm not all that hep about. . . G. Totman: You live right here? R. Gleason: Yes , G. Totman: Oh , I see. Well, you've already sold some in here . G. VanSlyke: No . He deeded this away. This is a relative, remember? G. Totman: Oh, yes, G. VanSlyke: Now his daughter lives here, R. Gleason: Thane is here, Roper(?) is here, Corella owns that. G. Totman: Nobody will certainly want to build behind the chicken house . R. Gleason: No chickens anymore , G. Totman: The obvious thing is that it doesn't fall within this . And I think it does . R. Gleason: That was the main thing again -- before we got too far. G. Totman: It makes more taxable land for the Town of Groton. R. Gleason: I'll come in and get an application . . , 11 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting July 20, 1995 G. Totman: If you're going to do it, come and do it early enough so she's got time to get it out in the mail . R. Gleason: Immediately as soon as we have a confirmed sale, I will get the surveyor in and get the map made , G. Totman: You can get it approved by the Board, but it won't be legal until you get the map in , So you can conceivably come to the next Planning Board as long as you've got all the paperwork made out. R. Gleason: That's what I figured . G. Totman: If the surveyor don't have it done until the following week, you 've just got to call me up and tell me and bring it over to my office, I usually stop here every Friday afternoon. G. VanSlyke: This is a dream, as long as it doesn't turn into a nightmare, you 're okay. George , you made an interesting meeting, V. Rankin: Is that all of it? R. Gleason: That's it for now. The only thing is this business about -- I 'm on the Farm Land Protection Board , There's something about -- I'm not just exactly sure what they're supposed to do. . . G. Totman: I'll tell you what, Roger. From what I know about that Farm Land Protection Board , if you listen to us and forget those tree huggers, you'll be a lot better off, R. Gleason: Well, they aren't tree huggers on the Board , I just know. . . G. Totman: That's one of the most unpopular boards I 've ever heard of in the County, V. Rankin: What is it anyway? G. Totman: They call it the Farm Land Protection Board , But it's a " stop development board" - - that's what it is. R. Gleason: Actually, it isn't intended to be , but it's mainly to be sure that information gets out about how some of these actions could effect. , . , V. Rankin: Oh, the heck with them -- do it anyway, G. Totman: Let me give you an example of what that Board is all about. And Roger sets on it, so he'll probably tell me I 'm wrong. You know where Milliken Station is? About three years ago, they approached the town about extending public water all the way up Milliken Station and they would pay for all the main line trunks which would be great for the town because they have a real bad water situation -- people have trouble getting water, and what water they do get is not pure and it's sulfur and it's every other darn thing up through there , And most land is not being farmed anyway, They're in an ag district, but it's not being farmed -- the majority of it out through there . So the town thought that was a great idea. They spent almost two years dealing with the DEC , the State , and doing all the paperwork that the lawyers knew legally, possibly, they had to do. They got down to the final straw, the very final thing to pass it, and all of a sudden up shoots this Farm Land Protection Board, and they write a letter to Albany saying we don't like it, we think it's going to hurt the farmers. And it stopped, just like that, It stopped it like that, until they got the lawyers back out and they had to go back to Albany and say, wait a minute , They finally got it passed . But here 's a board that's not even elected or anything to have the kind of authority to do something like that, To me , it's like taxation without representation , Nobody even knew anything about it. And here's this - - Mary Beth Holub wrote a letter to Albany and says, look we decided that's in an ag district and it could hurt the farmers up through there . R. Gleason: Well, we were approached by two farmers who were concerned about it. G. Totman: I couldn't believe that a board . , , 12 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting July 20, 1995 X Carey. But the thing was a lot of farmers out there would like to tap off that water, because a lot of them have to draw water in this kind of weather. I would think they'd go for it. G. Totman: There was a lot of feathers flying on that one . R. Gleason. It was unfortunate that had to be the first thing. But the point is, there are actions taken at times in which the facts are not brought out. G. Totman: But when you look at government, that's one of the problems with government today. There are so many boards being appointed that have hidden authorities that the general public doesn't even know about it. And you get started on something, and there was a lot of money spent on this. If they'd had their way, there could have been thousands of dollars gone down the drain on that thing. How many more of these boards get appointed that are out there? This is the part that bugs me . The more I get involved with government, the more I see this. And it's really scary. There are so many things out there that people are sticking their nose in places -- you 've got a town government, you elected the town board by the people, you elect the county government by the people , and you 've got people from those boards and the planning boards, and all of a sudden you've got a board over here on the side that nobody knows anything about that says, no we don't like that. It's not really what I call a true America. R. Gleason. It 's intended to be so that information is gotten out and considered in making these decisions. It's unfortunate in this case . G. Totman: I guess what the people in Lansing felt, the people are making decisions on what's going to be developing in Lansing that don't even live in Lansing. G. VanSlyke: Wait a minute. What kind of a board is it? Is it advisory? Or is it something that has some clout? Anybody can write a letter to Albany. G. Totman: This board has clout. Nobody knew it. It was a law that was passed in 1991 and it was sponsored by Marty Luster, and nobody knew anything about it, except it was appointed and they've been meeting along. And all of a sudden it hit them, like that. And nobody knew anything about it. V. Rankin: How many are on that board? R. Gleason: Six, I think. G. Totman: I don't even know how they get appointed. R. Gleason: The Board of Reps appoints us. V. Rankin: There, George , G. VanSlyke: It's your fault, George. V. Rankin: Speaking about the Board of Reps, what are you going to do about that Cobb Street, the worst road in Tompkins County? They top every darn road in the County and leave Cobb Street go to heck. G. VanSlyke: There 's nothing out there anyway. V. Rankin: Worst road in the whole County. G. VanSlyke: Let it go back to a dirt road. Cs Tw1 e: I've lived on Cobb Street 25 years and they have not done one thing. G. Totman: Well, you guys have been talking to a lady called Nancy Frederick (?) . 13 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting July 20, 1995 V. Rankin: Did she call you? G. Totman: Yes. V. Rankin: Good. G. Totman: She almost told me the exact same thing you just said . It was almost word for word what she told me. V. Rankin: I haven't talked to her, but I 'm glad she called you . G. VanSlyke: Groton City's got to come before all these guys on Cobb Street, T. Robinson: Cobb Street gets more complaints than anybody . G. Totman: That's a County road . Ce Twig* Ed Sheffler (?) and who was the other guy who was keeping track of what they found on the roads, these dumps -- one right in front of his barn. They find mufflers. V. Rankin: They found a wagon there once . G. Totman: In all sincerity, when you're talking about that, last fall when the budget was being made in the County, the best presentation that was put on by any of the departments in the County -- Sheriff, Fire Control , Planning, or any of them -- the Highway put on the best presentation . It took them about 45 minutes. They had graphs, slides, showing how the roads are deteriorating, how they had pictures of roads deteriorating, and how much it cost per mile to normally maintain a road . They normally do 20 miles per year, and that's been the goal over the years. They went through all -- they did a fantastic job of making the presentation . And bridges -- right now the County has six bridges that are down. When the budget was made , they didn 't get it. They got nothing for anything more for maintenance of highways and bridges. They didn't do anything about social welfare to cut that back, or the health departments or all that stuff -- there was no question about any of the money they asked for. But they didn't put any money in for the repair of the bridges, except for what was already there . And they can 't even -- they didn't even get enough money to put in the budget to maintain their normal 20 miles a year. To do 20 miles a year in the County, you 'll never get them caught up with the County roads. They only got enough money to do 15 . 3 miles for this year. G. VanSlyke: That's your fault, George . V. Rankin: Too many reps from the city. G. Totman: And sincerely, what you're saying is exactly true . In fact, I had a four-hour meeting last Thursday morning with the Highway Department -- what they call a retreat so they can bring people up to date as to what they've been doing and stuff like that. And it's almost impossible to get money out of this board now for anything out in the County . V. Rankin: They put the sluices in, did the ditches, and everything and there it sets . G. Totman: I talked to Ward Hummerford M about your road . And he told me that he , alone -- I 've got a call into this Nancy Fredericks -- she must work during the day. I forget to call her back in the evening. He said he would try to do his best to explain to her -- they've done a lot of work on the ditches and culverts and stuff up there. V. Rankin: They fixed them all. But Baldwin(?) put up such a holler they put in two big culverts over to his place -- they needed one . They needed two like they needed . . . . .why they listened to him is beyond me . G. Totman: They have done the infrastructure work on that road . But they haven' t paved it. I just thought I 'd let you know that I have looked into it. 14 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting July 20, 1995 V. Rankin: The culverts, ditches, everything is all done. G. Totman: Yes. But it's not in the budget for next year. It's not in the five-year plan . V. Rankin: Those bozos in Ithaca are running the whole works and there's nothing you can do about it. G. Totman: Did we talk about having a meeting with the Town Board? (In response to an inaudible question from Teresa Robinson) . G. VanSlyke: Why did we have to have a meeting? T. Robinson: For future planning that we were talking about? G. Totman: At the last meeting we talked about that? T. Robinson: I don't know. They talked about having a Town meeting time. M. Carey: I don't remember anything. G. Totman: Maybe it will come to me, Teresa, but I don't recall what you 're talking about. M. Carey, We talked about it at one of our meetings? G. Totman: I don't know. M. Carey: Did we talk about it here at one of our meetings? G. Totman: Maybe it's in the minutes or something. I 'll see . We just got our minutes from the last meeting tonight, but I don't recall. Something we talked about two or three months ago or something? G. VanSlyke: It doesn't have anything to do with this thing that Monica got appointed to does it? V. Rankin, Let's go home . G. Totman: Let's adjourn the meeting if we don't have anything more, and then we can talk. V. Rankin: I move we adjourn the meeting. G. Totman: Do you want to read the minutes now and approve them, or do you want to take them home and approve them at the next meeting? V. Rankin: Take them home . CO Twigg: Take them home . M. Carey: I second Verl's motion to adjourn the meeting. The meeting was adjourned at 9 p.m, Respectfully submitted , Joan E . Fitch Recording Secretary 15