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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1994-10-20 t , TOWN OF GROTON PLANNING BOARD Thursday, 20 October 1994 Board Members (*present) Others Present *George Totman, Chairman Angela & Raymond Brashear *Monica Carey Barbara Frantz, Attorney *Sheldon Clark Christopher Dempsey *Jeff Lewis Angela & Raymond Brashear *Verl Rankin Robert Walpole *George VanSlyke Mary Decker Cecil Twigg The meeting was called to order at 8 :00 p.m. by Chairman Totman. G. Totman: Has everybody read the minutes of the September meeting? If so. . . V. Rankin: I make a motion to approve the minutes as published. J. Lewis: I second that motion. G. Totman: The first item on our agenda is the Brashear Subdivision on Durfee Road. Would anyone like to describe this? Does anyone have any questions? They do have all the paperwork filed, which you have now. V. Rankin: What's this little dot back here? R. Brashear: That's Parcel D -- there's three parcels marked A, B, C . and then D . G. Totman: For everyone's information, we're dividing four lots; three lots, and they are keeping one . I think most of you were all here when we discussed this at the last meeting. No questions from anybody? George , would you like to read the SEQR please? G. VanSlyke : Run that by me again, George. What did you just say? We're dividing it into. . . G. Totman: We're going to wind up with four parcels: they are dividing three parcels off their land. G. VanSlyke : They're going to keep this other section aren't they where the pond is and all this? G. Totman: Yes. They are only selling off the three on the corner there, plus D . George VanSlyke read the questions on SEQR form. Answers to A, B. all of C. and D were no. The proposed action received a negative declaration. Verl Rankin made the motion to approve ; Jeff Lewis seconded the motion. The vote was unanimously in favor. G. Totman: According to the "rules and regulations of the Town of Groton Subdivision Regulations, the Planning Board has some options to declare it a major, or a minor, or a rural subdivision. If it's a major, you automatically have to hold a Public Hearing; if it's a minor, you have the option; and if it's a rural, you don't have to hold a Public Hearing at all, but it doesn't fall under a "rural" because each one of them are not over five acres of land . It would be my suggestion that you call it a "minor subdivision. " If everybody agrees, do you feel there's enough impact here to hold a Public Hearing? J. Lewis: No . G. Totman: Does somebody want to make a motion that we bypass the Public Hearing then? Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting 20 October 1994 G. VanSlyke: I so move. J. Lewis: I second. G. Totman: All in favor? (All were in favor.) Carried. Are there any more questions anyone would like to ask about the subdivision? Does someone want to make a motion to reject it? or accept it? J. Lewis: I'll make a motion that we accept it. V. Rankin: I'll second. G. Totman: All in favor? (All were in favor.) Now, to make this official, you have to have it surveyed and bring the survey map in. The Chairman of the Planning Board has to sign it before you can sell any lots on it. R. Brashear: I have one question. I plan to get those three small lots completed before that 50-acre one. If I had a purchase offer on one of the small ones, and I didn't have the whole land surveyed, could I go ahead and sell this -- survey that smaller lot out? 11 G. Totman: I was going to say if you do one of those small lots, why don't you have all three of them done together? So you bring those in -- the rest of it is practically the parcel anyway. Because George can't give a building permit until he gets the survey. So if you bring that in and we sign that so they're legal, then you just can't do anything with the rest of it until you get that survey in here to get it stamped and signed. R. Brashear: I'm going to try to get the whole thing. . . G. Totman: Because once you do all those, the rest of it is more or less. . . . R. Brashear: I've* had some inquiries on a couple of the smaller lots already. G. Totman: Okay. R. Brashear: But if I had a survey map of those three lots. . . G. Totman: I don't see any reason why you couldn't. You have to bring a mylar copy along with another copy we can keep here so we can stamp it and sign it so you can file it in the County. R. Brashear: I think they'll take a Xerox. G. Totman: Whatever. But you get a mylar anyway. That's what really makes it official. We have to keep one here on file so George can have it to refer to. If somebody comes in for a building permit and he looks it up and sees that it has been approved by the Planning Board, then he can give a building permit. Otherwise, he can't. R. & A. Brashean Thank you. G. Totman: Barbara? B. Frantz: I guess we just want to get some information. We've a lot that's been surveyed and being bought. We're not building on it -- not doing anything with it. We're buying surrounding land. But it's the third division out of what was once a bigger tax parcel . G. Totman: This is up on Sears Road? You've all got a map. B. Frantz: Right. The way I read the Subdivision law, this was deeded out two years ago, I guess, and now they are just buying back land. The same owner. There is not going to be any building, but this tax map parcel ends up being divided again. It's not a third owner, but it will be the third cut out of one. 2 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting 20 October 1994 T So what you're real doing then Tax Parcel 11 . 1 and 11 . 2 are being combined into G. Totman: y really g g one? B. Frantz: Well, yes. That would be the ideal to make 11 . 1 just bigger. G. Totman: He's taking the whole thing? B. Frantz: No, he's going to take half of 11 . 2 . approximately. G. Totman: The insurance business is good then? B. Frantz: You'd have to ask him. G. Totman: So you're asking the Planning Board what you have to do at this point? B. Frantz: Yes. What would you qualify this as? Rural? G. Totman: How many acres are you talking about? B. Frantz: Well, in total it's going to be -- he will end up with 47, approximately. Right now, he's only got . . . . G. Totman: What you'll end up with is what we call a rural subdivision. And if you present the proper credentials at the next meeting, it can be handled in one night. B. Frantz: My one question is, Ahe fact that this parcel. . . then we'll have three parcels here. Is that how you'll qualify it? When the new parcel sort of gets merged into the bigger parcel? G. Totman: Wait a minute. , What you're talking about -- where is the division you're talking about? B. Frantz: Okay. You've got this. What's going to end up happening is like we're going to draw a line . G. Totman: That one there isn't straight. B. Frantz: Right. G. Totman: You're doing that line like this and like this and back like that? Is there a reason for that? B. Frantz: I think because that's the way the field goes. There must be a fence or something. I think there's a fence there. C. Dempsey: It's the way the owner wants to sell it. G. Totman: Is that right? That's a crazy way to make it. C. Dempsey: That's the way the field is. The woods goes along there and she wants to keep the woods. When's the next meeting? G. Totman: A month . C. Dempsey: Oh , shitl I don't want to wait and there's a purely good reason I don't want to wait to close is because every darn guy in the world is shooting at my house . And so what I'm pushing for is I want to close on this because Ibe got to get that land posted . V. Rankin: They won't let you post it? G. Totman, But, Chris. . . 3 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting 20 October 1994 11 C. Dempsey: I haven't got any legal right to keep people off. 11 G. Totman: But, Chris, you haven't made a formal application. C. Dempsey: We have to make a formal application for me to buy 50 acres of land that I'm not going to do anything with? Is that what we're talking about. B. Frantz: Yes. Because it's the third subdivision out of this. . . C. Dempsey: That's ludicrous. B. Frantz: If it was the second one, and we can merge the two. G. Totman: There's no problem with it. But everybody else makes an application out and presents it. The Planning Board gets it in the mail ahead of time and they look it over. It's the normal thing to do with a subdivision. C. Dempsey: It might be the normal thing you do . I don't know if it's normal for every other community. I think it's fairly silly when we're talking about. . . . . I 'm obviously not going to be building on it. There's obviously not a problem. B. Frantz: There won't be a problem, I imagine , in a month. G. Totman: If you're going to buy it, why can't you just put up posted signs anyway? To keep the hunters off, right? C. Dempsey: The object is to keep the hunters off. G. Totman: Well, if you've got a purchase offer on the land, why can't you just do the same thing as if you owned it? J. Lewis: You can't keep me out of there. I'm going to go up and hunt anyway! C. Dempsey: If people know I don't own it, which is a possibility in the situation I'm under. . . G. Totman: If you've got permission from the owner to do it, it's just as legal to do it that way as the other way. B. Frantz: Yes. G. Totman: As long as you've got permission from the owner, and you wanted to put posted signs up there, it's just as legal as if you owned the land. B. Frantz: My concern, though, is -- is this really a rural, or is it a minor because this parcel is less than five acres. G. Totman: But we're not touching that parcel. B. Frantz: Right. But so you don't count that. . . . that's what I want clarified . G. Totman: As long as the Planning Board knows what you're doing, and you're following the rules, the Planning Board has the option, even if you call that a minor, as long as it's not affecting anything else, or affecting the neighbors, and obviously you're not because you 've got so much land involved, you can call that a minor and the Planning Board can bypass the Public Hearing. So regardless of that, we can still do it at the next meeting. B. Frantz: Okay. Right. But I just want to. . . .we first said it was a rural and I don't want to fill out a rural and then get in here and it's oops, this should be a minor application. Do you see my question? But if you guys don't count this, this subdivision is more than five acres. 4 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting 20 October 1994 G. Totman: I'm assuming that when he does that -- and I guess I really shouldn't assume that either. Are you going to keep two tax map numbers, or one? B. Frantz: Probably be better if it was one . C. Dempsey: Whatever you say. G. Totman: It's not up to us. J. Lewis: It's up to you. G. Totman: But if you keep it two, then we'll treat that one there as a rural subdivision. No public hearing, come in and present your stuff, we pass it, and you go home. C. Dempsey: The problem is not as much with me as it is the present owner who wants her money ASAP . B. Frantz: So, okay. You 'll qualify this as a rural? That's what my concern. . . G. Totman: Does the Planning Board agree with that? Speak up if you've got. . . B. Frantz: I just don't want next month to expect a rural and you qualify it as a minor. G. Totman: It's in the minutes. B. Frantz: All right then. Thank you . G. Totman: But you have to fill out the application. B. Frantz: Okay. G. Totman: Robert Walpole is here to talk about the Christofferson property. R. Walpole: I've got 15 minutes, and I'll get right out of your hair. Go to your third page . I'm going to jump around a little bit. Someplace there's a file on Christofferson. It's got a big map . Mildred is selling the old tenant house and it is part of the tax parcel you have approved a subdivision on as part of TM #24- 1 -3 . 2 back in June 18, 1992 . If you'll turn to the second page of Christofferson -- it would be your fourth page -- the property where Mizer's house is -- 50 acres. Looking at Mizer's property, the subdivision has already been approved for her back in June 18, 1992 . It's my understanding that Mizer is buying the balance of the woods. 11 V. Rankin: He's the one that's back there in the woods. G. Totman: Now where is it on his map? R. Walpole: On this map it doesn't show. Apparently it's over here farther. The balance of the Christofferson property which would be the west. Behind the house . V. Rankin: The house sets way back in the boonies there. M Walpole: Now there's been one, two, three -- apparently there's a house that sits right here. And you've got six, seven, eight are still available . Now, following the same tax parcel, she's going to sell her house with two acres -- it might be a little more than that depending on where the leach field is; 200 feet of road frontage. G. Totman: Which lot is her house? I'm talking for the minutes sake. R. Walpole: On the same lot that the subdivision occurred on, which would be TM #24- 1 -3. 2 . V. Rankin: I know where that is. Drive by it every day. 5 iIIVI Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting 20 October 1994 M. Carey: But what did we do to this parcel? Y R. Walpole: Nothing. Nothing yet. All together, there's approximately 25 acres left. Now she is thinking of possibly cutting out another lot, but she's going to keep for herself. G. Totman: Cutting another lot out where? R. Walpole: West of the previous subdivision which would be west of #8 on your big map here. This is all part of the same tax map ;number. V. Rankin: That's west. M. Decker. That's where the orchard was, Verl. j R. Walpole: And that's only 15 to 20 acres is the balance. Counting what she's going to keep would be 25 acres. Right now, counting everything, there's about 27 acres there . V. Rankin: With the house. R. Walpole: With the house as it sets right now. Now she was going to keep a five-acre lot here to building, but I think at this point she's . . . (hand motions indicate "waffling") . She'd really prefer to sell the whole thing if someone comes along. So there could be, before we get through here, the woods going to Mizer as far as I am concerned as a boundary change. Or he may want it as a separate parcel. G. Totman: There's no road frontage on the woods? R. Walpole: There's no road frontage, but that would eliminate any land being locked in back. Okay? She may keep one lot for herself which would leave 15 to 20 acres to go with the house. So we may be coming back. If someone buys the house and the acreage, it's all going to go as one package. So we can have a three-unit subdivision here, actually a four-unit: I 'm not going to be involved in the fourth one because the woods is going with Mizer. She may want to reserve the 5-acre lot next to the subdivision that's already been approved. And if somebody buys the house with two acres, there's still 15 to 20 acres with 600 feet of road frontage that could be sold. That would not be subdivided. At least she won't. So we could end up with three new units on Spring Street. The fourth unit would be going with Mizer's property. M. Carey: Now would this be a major subdivision? This is the end of that land up there . Basically it will all be . . . . G. Totman: The first subdivision we did for this lady was in '92 , It's only two years now gone and It's an automatic major if it's over five, And so it's three years. So it automatically makes it a major which will require the Planning Board to hold a Public Hearing. According to the book. With that, when you decide exactly how you want to do it, make a presentation and we'll hold a Public Hearing. R. Walpole: There's a purchase offer on the house subject to financing and I don't get too excited until we get a committal letter, so I 'm not going to apply at this point up until the time we know for sure we've got a commitment. The purpose of the minutes is so the building inspector is aware that the bank is going to contact him in reference -- and so the Planning Board is aware and the building inspector is aware that we may come back here for the major subdivision. G. Totman: Okay. R. Walpole: Now go to your first page . Chipman Corners Road, James Bishop. At one time it was James Bishop and Nancy Brown; that partnership has been dissolved. If you look at your map, I 'm just going to point this out. I was in here a couple years ago, and looking at the very faint # 11 here, it has been sold and there's a new home on it. Looking at #7, that's been sold. I don't remember if we got subdivision approval. I'm going to have to look up the file . We were in here when we sold that and we sold that. There's two lots' left.', They are both 6. 80 acres, each with more than 400 feet of frontage . A 6 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting 20 October 1994 purchase offer is pending on one of them and we're waiting to make sure financing goes through . My question -- minor or major? X Carey: These lots have been sold off? R. Walpole: We sold the two. This one faces Sears Road, and the other one faces Chipman Corners Road. And you've got two more on Chipman Corners Road. G. Totman: That's four altogether. They're all over five acres? R. Walpole: I'm not sure. I think there's one less than five acres. G. Totman: Unless there's something major that we don't know about, it really doesn't make all that much difference, The only big difference is here, unless there's drainage problems or a lot of other things happening, we're requiring on a minor to look at whether we should have a Public Hearing or not. It doesn't mean you have to. With a rural, we're not required to at all; we can just do it all in one night, Just for information purposes, and one of the things we want to make sure we don't get caught in a trap on sometimes, a minor subdivision, we are supposed to have two submittals from a developer in order to make it legal. We haven't quite adhered to that, but we could get in trouble on it sometime . They are supposed to submit it one night and do it the next night even if you don't have a public hearing -- on minor. So this could be considered the first meeting, This is a submission. All it says is two submissions in the book. Any questions? M. Carey: It all looks good to me . R. Walpole: Yatsko - Smith Road (TM #25- 1 - 12 . 2) . Page #6, map is on 7. G. Totman: That's Thomas Y-A-T-S-K-O . R. Walpole: Parcel #3 - all these will be ten acres. We have a cash offer on and it has been accepted. It does not trigger the subdivision. One and two we have a purchase offer on, pending financing. Financing looks shaky. The other parcel of ten acres they will probably drop back to looks real good. So we could be coming back for a four-unit subdivision, or just a three-unit subdivision which would be considered a rural because they will all exceed five acres. There will be a new map submitted; the map may go on file long before Parcel 3 because I imagine they will do something with Parcel 3 before the weather gets bad. I 'm just briefing the Board with reference to where we stand on it. We could build a 20- 10- 10, or maybe four 1 Os. So the purpose of having the minutes is so when the building permit is issued that we are well aware that we will be back in here. J. Lewis: These all have 200 feet? R Walpole: The actual frontage on the road is exact -- our engineers have taken care of that. G. Totman: VanAlmelo -- John and Linda. Smith Road - Part of Parcel 22- 1 - 19 , 1 . R. Walpole: Okay, if you 'll turn to the actual survey, you'll get some idea. We're dealing with two different tax map numbers here. The one we're presently dealing with is on Smith Road. If you'll turn to the last page, this last lot takes in both tax parcels which has 600 feet of road frontage. There are no wetlands involved ; we've checked the maps. Can't build anything in there, it's just too wet. 11 G. Totman: Why isn't there? If there's no wetlands. . . . . R. Walpole: Well, it's wet. I mean if somebody wanted to build in there if they wanted to put big bucks into a septic system. G. Totman: But it's not a designated wetland? R. Walpole: It's not a designated wetland, no. The next lot on the market is 3 to 4 acres which would be zeroed in when we do the rough survey maps, which is right across from the new house that was just built. 7 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting 20 October 1994 V. Rankin: Is this on the swamp road? R. Walpole: That's correct. On the Smith Road . They are looking to put four additional lots. There's purchase offers pending on two of them . There again, we haven't done anything until the financing goes through . Now -- there's some additional land behind the hedgerow that they don't want that may be tied in here -- about 15 to 20 acres that's being left in limbo at this time . It's not going to be landlocked. It could be over 5 acres per lot, depending on who wants it. In the end, there are one, two, three, four, five, six, and they are all going to be between 3 and 4 acres except for the big one which would be around 35 acres, and two or three of these could exceed five acres or go as high as 10 acres. I would classify that as major. G. Totman: Yes. Because if any one of them is smaller than that. . . . even with that, you can't go over five on a rural. R. Walpole: So there could very well be two building permits -- no one building permit issued this year, but we will keep you posted on that -- with engineering drawings and stuff -- before we trigger it into a major subdivision. G. Totman: Wait a minute. You say there will be a building permit issued? R. Walpole: They have the right to build off one lot right now. G. Totman: Yes, Okay, R. Walpole: Legally, they can build off one lot today. One building permit. But before that happens, we will have some kind of map to you so you know what's going on and we may file the paperwork, but I do not want it filed in the County Clerk's Office at this point because it raises holy hell with the assessment on there . But we may have all the stuff in here for approval and may file it here before we file it there because our Assessment Department loves to take the first wrap on a building lot as long as it's filed in the County Clerk's Office -- right now it's $7500 -- $ 1700 an acre. The purpose of my coming in here is to advise you of that. This is what the intent of the owners of the property are . G. Totman: To the Health Department and the County, a realty subdivision is five or more. So the Health Department doesn't get involved -- now you have to be careful sometimes when you get into a major and you've got more than five because then you have to get the Health Department involved before you can pass the final thing here. So if you can keep it under the five, you keep the cost down for the developer. R. Walpole: It could very well. We have one person looking at two lots. G. Totman: And if you present it to us and it's a major, and it's over five, we're supposed to send it to the County for .their observation before we approve it. That would really make Chris get excited wouldn't it? R. Walpole: All the information I've given you tonight is for your records so you've at least been briefed on it and so that when someone calls and starts hooting and hollering at you, you'll know what the hell is going on. The other thing is -- and I did not bring any paperwork with me -- but when is your next Planning Board meeting? We have part of the Cornelius farm with the barns and ten acres, has been sold. It's part of the major development of the new manufacturing firm going in at R & H Pontiac . It's all part of the SBA, Broome IDA, etc. I believe we have to come back in here for Site Plan Review for that barn to be used for storage. That's my understanding of the Zoning Ordinance . And this is part of the major package . We're going to be moving one of the big buildings at R & H and Cornell University signed a long-term lease today with 10,000 square feet. They are hoping to close this in the middle of November. G. Totman: Now what are they going to be doing down there, Bob? R. Walpole: Well, Marchell is going in there . 8 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting 20 October 1994 G. Totman: Oh, that's right. R. Walpole: Site Plan Review. Does that require two meetings, or one? G. Totman: It's up to the Planning Board . A Site Plan Review is up to the Planning Board as to what impact they think it might have on the community and whether they should let the community know what's going on around it. R. Walpole: Let me ask you another question. Is the Planning Board having another meeting between now and the time they have their formal meeting in November? G. Totman: You want to know all of our secrets? Yes, we're having work sessions -- next Thursday. We're having one every Thursday until we get this thing done . R. Walpole: So if I was to give enough notice so it could be advertised as an official meeting. . . G. Totman: For which one, now? R. Walpole: On the Site Plan Review -- so I can at least put the formal application together. G. Totman: Our next official meeting is the 17th of November. G. VanSlyke : In reality, these work sessions are not official. G. Totman: What he's saying is if he knows he's going to come in and we're going to have a meeting say two weeks from tonight, if they put an ad in the paper saying the Planning Board is having a special meeting that night, that makes it official. Is that the way I 'm reading you? R. Walpole: Yes. I only would ask that because it's part of this major project here and we're on a deadline. G. Totman: We could work that in . That would be what, two weeks from tonight is what -- November 3rd? I won't be here that night. This Site Plan Review possibly being proposed for the property up on South Main Street, the old Cornelius barn, there seems to be an urgency for it to get it through before winter sets in. Does anybody on the Planning Board have anything against calling a special meeting for that particular property? Normally, we would be meeting that night anyway, working on our Comprehensive Plan and the changes in the Ordinance . We would put that in at the beginning of the meeting and hold a Site Plan Review on it. V. Rankin: It's not going to take that long is it? G. Totman: It depends on how much the Board wants to talk about it. It's really no big deal, but we've got to do it right, in case anybody has any objections you have to go on record as asking the right questions, knowing what they're going to do, if they got the right parking, and this, and this, and this. I wouldn't think it would take too long. Does anybody have anything against that. (No one did .) Okay, I 'm serving notice, and you will appreciate this, I probably won't be here that night. I'll be in New York that day. So, Monica, you want to bone up on what you need to do for a Site Plan Review. Just so you all know. M. Carey: Okay. G. Totman: Mary Decker, M. Decker: I've got a concern now and maybe I was premature on Harriet Tenney's property up on the comer of Bossard Road and Spring Street Extension, G. Totman: 22- 1 -23.2 . M. Decker: I should have put the tax map in that shows the whole parcel before there was any idea of a subdivision. Spring Street Extension runs east and west; Bossard Road north and south . This is 9 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting 20 October 1994 the full parcel for Harriet Tenney which consists of 130 acres . There hasn't been any split off from that for a period of time, so we've got approximately a 17-acre parcel of land right here . The whole parcel is 17 acres. V. Rankin: This is where you want to put a development, here? M. Decker: It's this parcel right here which is not separated off. This is only divided by a creek here. This little stream runs year round. V. Rankin: You're right. Everything runs year round up there . M. Decker: The creek is the boundary line -- that's a field -- probably the only parcel of tillable land on that property. M. Carey: Did you check for wetlands? M. Decker: Yes. Even this back here isn't designated wetlands, and I 'm surprised . It's pretty wet and it's getting worse because of the beavers. I haven't been back there, but some people went back in there and told me all about it. So this parcel of land here, which is part of the big -- it's about 17 acres -- and it's really the only high , dry land that Harriet has to work with . That area there is what we're saying we'd like to split into five parcels. That's what you're seeing -- Lot A, and then the smaller lots, which run from 1 . 84 to 2 . 76 acres. It's going to trigger us into six altogether. I think this is going to throw us into the major subdivision . Now -- and this is my question and I couldn't contact George. . . we have her. . . G. Totman: What do you mean you couldn't contact George? M. Decker: At 4:30 I tried to call you . I tried to call you at home, but you didn't answer. V. Rankin: You don't show the house here. M. Decker: It's about where the B is on Bossard Road. Okay? But right now we've got her house on the market with a ten-acre parcel surrounding it. Is it so, George, that if we split this off and do a major subdivision here, these are smaller lots, then what is the time frame? Three years before anything less than how many acres can be sold off from this parcel? Am I asking that right? You were talking about it just previously on Christofferson. V. Rankin: If she's going to sell ten acres here and then she's got all the rest of this swamp land. G. Totman: Three years. M. Decker: Okay. Three years interval. But size -- is it 10 acres, 5 acres, what is that minimum that can be sold? G. Totman: What do you mean? M. Decker: I guess I'm not asking it right. Okay, you got the large parcel. . . . G. Totman: Wait a minute . Back up, Mary. Let's assume these five lots here have been approved . Now the clock starts ticking. So you 're talking about after these have been approved for a subdivision, how long can she sell something up here without having to go through another major? M. Decker: I'm thinking the size . Isn't there a size by the State Law that says within a three-year period if you're going to sell anything else off it has to be X number of acres? Or not? G. Totman: Not that I know of. V. Rankin: She probably wants to sell this house and ten acres whether she wants to sell anything else. 10 Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting 20 October 1994 M. Decker: That's right. She'd like to get rid of the house and ten acres whether she sells anything else or not. The way we've got it advertised is a house and ten acres for X number of dollars, and more land available. That hasn't moved, so this is why she's contemplating. . . .she says okay, let's move some building lots, get rid of some building parcels. But what I'm saying is there's not going to be a problem selling anything else within that three-year period of time? That's what I 'm asking, George . What's it going to put her into? M. Carey: What would be the harm of maybe just -- as long as we're going with a major -- dividing the rest of the property up into large lots. You can always make boundary changes. M. Decker: This is what I was wondering, because what we're doing right now is advertising ten acres and you can buy it with additional. So we have not done any kind of survey because you don't know whether you're going to sell ten acres or fifteen, or fifty. So we haven't done any of that. That's why I'm trying to figure if it really matters if it's blank and we'll just come back in at the point that we know what we are going to sell. What do you do? What do I apply for then? An extension of a major, or what? That's what I'm asking. . V. Rankin: You'll be lucky to sell anything up in that swamp land. But go ahead and try. M. Decker: This land here is probably the only good land, right? V. Rankin: Yes. For a little ways through there. They used to farm the whole works. M. Decker: We ve put in for a major. And that's not going to stop us from selling anything else off? She's got a bunch of land left. What if somebody says that they just want to go straight back and pick up 50 acres. Can she do that? G. Totman: I don't know. What does the Board think? Mary, let me ask you a question. Does she have any buyers for any of these small lots here? M. Decker: We've got them advertised and we've gotten inquiries. We haven't got purchase offers on any of them at this point. I just put them on the market two weeks ago. We can sell off one, I know. V. Rankin: Is this 400 feet on Spring Street? 400 and 200 and 300, G. Totman: That's right. Let me answer your question now. I'm reading from you that a house is on Bossard Road, right around where B is in Bossard. And she really would like to sell that off in acreage . That's her main goal right now. You've got one, two, three, four little small lots. You've got this one in here called the A lot. And I suppose you drew this up just to get the best use of the land in there. What my thought is - is instead of you coming in and applying for a major subdivision right now, wait until you see what some of your potential buyers might be and then tell them it's contingent upon Planning Board approval which, in this town here, if it meets the rules and regulations of the Ordinance , we don't put people through a lot of hassle like they do in some towns. My point is this. If she gets a buy for this, and they might want to buy this A over here, then maybe she won't have to trigger six lots to go into a major subdivision . If you go into a major subdivision where you trigger all these , you've got to go to the Health Department, she's got to do perc tests on all these, and she's going to be spending a bundle of money up front to even get the thing passed . So if you put it on the market and put it down with Planning Board approval, and you're doing a sketch plan for us to tell us what it might be, but you 're also telling us that none will be officially on the market until you come back and get approval on it. You might come up with a different configuration. than you've got here of what people might want to buy. Does this make sense to you? M. Decker: Yes. But this whole thing has been on the market for a year and a half . . . . G. Totman: Probably she wants too much for it. M. Decker: No. We're -- actually, for this house and ten acres she's asking $ 124, 500, That's for that house -- 3500 square foot. It's a nice house. V. Rankin: It's a cow barn. That's what it was. 11 . Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting 20 October 1994 M. Decker: Well it was, but it's a nice job of. . . . . V. Rankin: What bothers is where it sets. M. Decker: It's a barn and barns were on the road. So you have to relate to that. It sets on the road because a barn does. I hear what you're saying, George, and I agree with you totally. And I don't have a problem with that. These are advertised. We're getting calls. This probably because we're in that price range and it's a different piece of property, it's going to take a hell of a while just for it to go. Just for all the reasons we discussed . That's why we brought this in. But I don't have a problem not going with a major or anything of the kind. We can sell one without doing -- well, we can sell two. G. Totman: You can sell one. M. Decker: We haven't sold anything from it. M. Carey: But the main land is your first. G. Totman: What you're going by is the Ordinance says you can have two parcels . If you've got one, you're making two by selling one. It used to be, until we changed it a few years back, that any sale of land required a subdivision. But you can sell one and then when you see . . . M. Decker: I understand her. Go ahead, George. G. Totman: Once you sell that one and know where it's going to be, then you've got a better idea. You might want to change these configurations then. We'll do whatever you want to do . M. Decker: I agree with that. So basically, not including the house, we can sell off two. M. Carey: One. The second one would bring the subdivision tn. M. Decker: Okay. Rather than doing anything at this time . What is the age. on perc tests and that stuff anyway, because there were some done. G. Totman: A year. M. Decker: Leave it as an informational meeting, but it's three years and it doesn't have anything to do with size? G. Totman: Three years with the County, too, the way I understand it. M. Decker: All right. I won't have to do anything with that right now. What about the money -- that we paid. Do you just give that back? G. Totman: No. Once the money is recorded in here -- how much money you talking about -- $25 . M. Decker: No -- $85. G. Totman: Oh, you paid so much per lot. M. Decker: Yes. G. Totman: You might check with Carol in the morning to see if they've cashed it and run it through the books. Then you can't get it back. If they haven't, it would be okay. Otherwise, you've made your formal sketch plan review. I 've noted it on the folder. So whatever you come back with , it will save one meeting -- if you come back next month , or six months from now, and you 're still talking about the same property and the same things, that takes care of that first meeting according to the Subdivision Rules and Regulations. M. Decker: How long a time is that good for? 12 • Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting 20 October 1994 G. Totman: With this Board, probably within a year or so -- it's not really clear how long it's good for . M. Carey: We're not that hard to deal with . M. Decker: We'll see what we come up with . If we do sell one, we'll be back. G. Totman: All right, members . We are meeting next Thursday night. Hopefully we're going to wind most of it all up and get it done. If not, we'll go the following week. I 'm going to go back to the Town Board at their November meeting and ask them if they will have a joint meeting with us and we can go over all together. If we can all agree that it's a good Ordinance, then we can present it to the public -- sometime in the latter part of November we can have a Public Hearing. I talked to Tracey and she thinks she can have it ready by then. Once we get done, she will take all the stuff we've given her and go through it as it relates to State Laws, and she'll make up enough copies for everybody to review. That means, Verl, that you're going to have to read it. V. Rankin: I won't show up. J. Lewis: How long will it take us to go through it to accept it? G. Totman. We've been accepting it right along. J. Lewis: I mean the Town Board and us together. G. Totman: Once we get it done here and feel comfortable with it, my goal is to give a copy of it to the Town Board and let them have it in their hands for a week or two before- we have our joint meeting; otherwise, you couldn't expect them to sit there and look at it. But they have been getting all our minutes. So it isn't all new to them. I feel confident that once they look at it we can go through it -- and come to a conclusion . Any questions? We're going to finish doing the map next Thursday night. And, Monica, on November 3rd, if Bobby wants to have that special meeting for the Site Plan Review, I won't be here that day. Anyone have any more business? J. Lewis: I make a motion to adjourn the meeting. G. VanSlyke : I second that. G. Totman: It's 9:23 p.m. , and the meeting is adjourned. Respectfully submitted, Joan E. Fitch Recording Secretary 13