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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1994-09-15 TOWN OF GROTON PLANNING BOARD Thursday, 15 September 1994 Board Members (*present) Others Present *George Totman, Chairman George Senter, CEO *Monica Carey Alan R. Wilkinson *Sheldon Clark Anthony Johnson *Jeff Lewis Angela & Raymond Brashear *Verl Rankin George VanSlyke *Cecil 'lwigg The meeting was called to order at 8 :02 p.m. by Chairman Totman. G. Totman0 We will start the program with Mr. Wilkinson as he's here, and then we'll go over the minutes of the last meeting at the end. At our August meeting, we assumed that Mr. Wilkinson was going to be here, and apparently he didn't know he was supposed to be here, so we discussed your application at some length with the knowledge we had at the time. So it should be fresh in the memory of you people, if you remember correctly. He is proposing to have a Site Plan Review on his property on Sharpsteen Road . It's just around the corner from Route 34B . I think he's probably in a thousand feet or so from 3413, and he's proposing to sell cars. You correct me if I get this wrong. He's proposing to sell cars. He's asking permission to have two cars on display for sale . These are what we call turnkey cars -- they are ready to put a key in them, start them up, and drive them away. He's indicated that he has a garage and any cars that are not for sale, other than the two he'll have out there, will be inside the garage or not visible from the road. So we have to decide whether you want to approve it, not approve it, hold a public hearing, not hold a public hearing, and I think we should ask him questions to see if the way I explained it is the way he wants. Does anyone have any questions for him? M. Carey. How many cars will your garage hold? A. Wilkinson: If you really push it, you could get three, possibly four in there. M. Carey. You're not going to have any junk cars around? A. Wilkinson: No J. Lewis: Do you work on cars there? A. Wilkinson : Minor stuff, really. J. Lewis: No motor jobs, transmission jobs, things like that? A. Wilkinson: Maybe a little bit of detailing, nothing major. That's beyond what I can do. J. Lewis: So I'm assuming there's no painting or anything like that. A. Wilkinson: No S. Clark: All right. What are the guidelines we've set up for him now? Did we state the number of vehicles? G. Totman, Yes. The request is for having no unusable cars in sight on the property outside of the garage, and two cars that are for sale -- driveable cars -- turnkey cars -- that are for sale on the property. He lives there. The lots on both sides of him are vacant; they haven't been developed yet, so there's no Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 15 September 1994 real next door neighbors, although there are people who live in the area. I think Colleen Pierson, the Town Clerk, lives kitty-cornered from him; across the road. S. Clark: Is it something that seems it would work for you? A. Wilkinson: Honestly, I hadn't really planned on developing it into a full-scale business. Really, It's something I would run on the side in conjunction with a regular job . G. Totman: Now you have a license from the State to do this? 41 A. Wilkinson: Yes. I didn't realize I had to go through local channels. G. Totman: You didn't get any question when you applied for the license to do this? You didn't get any question from the State as to having it approved in the Town before you got your license? A. Wilkinson: They never questioned me about that. G. Totman: Is the license for repair -- there's a difference, though -- just for re-sale cars. If you're going to get a license to inspect and repair cars, then you definitely have to have the approval letter from the local municipality saying it's legal to do that. But I thought you had to do that for the sale of cars also. A. Wilkinson: Obviously not. J. Lewis: Is there a difference between wholesale and retailing them? G. Totman. As far as the license is concerned . A. Wilkinson: There may be ; I'm not that up on it. I've got the yellow book. I think the wholesaler . . . . I'm not sure. I'm not qualified to answer that. M. Carey: So are you going to do more vehicle repair? A. Wilkinson: Basically, I pick up vehicles, just clean them up . . . . . J. Lewis: There aren't any neighbors that are opposed about it? G. Totman: We don't know that. I haven't went up and asked them. A. Wilkinson: I've had the sign posted for probably more than a month now and. . . . G. Totman: You mean you got a permit to have a sign up there without having the approval of the business? A. Wilkinson: It's the State's. . . . G. Senter. He's got that on his garage. If you want a sign to put out by the front now, you've got to make out an application to do that -- there are setback requirements, and so forth. G. Totman: Does anyone have any further questions? Monica, do you have your SEQR form there? You didn't bring it with you did you? If you 've got it, Jeff, let Monica take it so she can go through the SEQR form. She's got it. For you people who've never applied for anything before , this is a State form. We didn't make this up and by law you have to do this. If we pass something and we didn't go through this SEAR form, then somebody could get an Article 78 against the Town if somebody didn't like what we passed, and get it thrown out because we didn't do it legal . On lots of major projects, things are held up because of the EIS forms, the SEAR, and other things -- the first thing they start off with if it isn't declared a negative dec like we will on this one, then it goes through a long form and gets into scoping sessions and all that. But a lot of times, people set there and wonder where these things came from. I just wanted you to know these are forms put out by the State and we have to do them. 2 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 15 September 1994 Monica Carey read the questions on SEAR form. Answers to X B9 all of C. and D were no. The proposed action received a negative declaration. Verl Rankin made the motion to approve; Jeff Lewis seconded the motion. The vote was unanimously in favor. G. Totman: What's the pleasure of the Board? Do you want to approve it, disapprove it, hold a public hearing, or waive the public hearing. V. Rankin. I move they approve it and to hell with the public hearing. J. Lewis: I second it. G. Totman: Any comments from anybody else? All in favor? (All were in favor.) But you have to remember this, seriously, because we've had problems in the past. When somebody comes in and says this is what I want and this is what I'm going to do -- and you have to come in and get this Special Permit -- well, you don't have to come in, but it has to be renewed every year. The only way to get it renewed is to keep it the way it's stated here . Your Special Permit will say. . . A. Wilkinson: Is this something I have to do every year? G. Totman: George is going to come around and inspect it. You know George? A. Wilkinson: I've spoken with him on the phone. G. Totman : George is going to come around and inspect it. If he finds more than two cars there, then he'll pull your Special Permit and you will be illegally operating. If you start collecting cars that are junk cars, and there are other cars laying around there that distracts the character of the neighborhood , then he will remove your permit and write to Albany and . tell them you 're operating illegally. They will pull your license. That's the way it operates. I just want to make sure that everybody knows that up front. It saves a lot of problems later on. If you feel at any time at all that you need to do something different than that, instead of just going ahead and doing it you should go to George and say "Look, I've got a problem . . . " or whatever and this Board might have to meet with you again, or whatever. Now if you would like to have more than that, and make it like a commercial area, we probably then would have a public hearing and have the neighbors come in and get comments from them. A. Wilkinson: Obviously, I live there, so. . . . G. Totman: Well, it's easier to talk 'about a problem before it happens then it is afterwards. And if you're going to put a sign out front -- CARS FOR SALE -- then you have to get a permit from George for that. If you want to put a sign out. There's a sign ordinance in the Town of Groton. It has to be the right size, and so far from the road, and things like that. J. Lewis: If it's on his building, he can do it, right? G. Totman: No . A. Wilkinson: If I was to put a For Sale sign in the window or write on the vehicle's windshield . . . . G. Senter. Don't worry about those things. A. Wilkinson: Thank you very much. G. Senter. Alan, have you paid your fee yet? A. Wilkinson: I believe so. G. Totman: Wait a minute. Let me look and see. I don't find any note from Carol saying you didn't; she usually leaves us a note. A. Wilkinson: Have her give me a holler if she needs something. 3 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 15 September 1994 G. Totman: Okay, have you all read about the proposed subdivision for the Edmondson Estate? You all know where it is? Do you have any questions about it? V. Rankin: Which corner is it there? T. Johnson: The piece in question is on the east side of Scofield Road. The creek is right there. G. Totman: Let me back up a minute, then. This application was made by Richard Darfler, and Mr. Johnson is the adjacent land owner. And they're sort of doing this together. As I understand it, you're dividing this land up so that you're protecting your land rights on both sides of you . T. Johnson: Ruth Edmondson died this summer and left everything to her sister down in Mississippi . She's selling the property. Didn't want it; wants to sell it. I'm interested in buying it as it adjoins my property,. and my neighbor is interested in buying it as it is directly across from his house . He can't afford to buy the whole thing, and I can't afford to buy the whole thing. The seller is interested in selling it as one piece . So we could each do essentially half, but to do that we need your permission because Ruth sold off several pieces over the years and we're at the point of needing subdivision approval. So it actually, the piece that I'm buying, for all intents and purposes, will get added to my piece and end up being all one tax map parcel for all I care. V. Rankin: That's here, or in the Town of Lansing? You live in the Town of Lansing - - your property. . . . T. Johnson: No. I also own some land in Groton, too. I own 20 some acres. C. Tavi g: But you live in Lansing? T. Johnson: My house is in Lansing, and Darfler's house is in Lansing. . So we're here because the seller is in Mississippi and they said we'll sell it as two pieces on the condition that you guys take care of all the paperwork, and we signed a thing that we would represent them here on this. M. Carey: Do both of these parcels have the required frontage? . It's 640 feet for the total? T. Johnson: Yes. So there would be 320 feet each. G. Totman: Two-hundred is the minimum . C. Twigg: This wouldn't come under a boundary change? G. Totman: No, because you're making two separate tax map numbers. C. Twigg: But you couldn't, like he said, add it to his? G. Totman: But in this particular case it really wouldn't make much difference either way. It's way over the required number of acres, it's way over the required number of footage on the road, and it meets all the requirements, plus. So all we've got to do is vote on passing it. He said he could make it part of his tax number, but he doesn't have to if he doesn't want to. It still could be a building lot if he wanted to sell it later on. He's buying it so he can control who goes across the road from him. He may want to sell it to a member of his family to building a house over there . If it's a separate tax number, he could do it then without coming back in. To me, it would be foolish for us to make him put it onto his property if he didn't want to, because he might want to give it to one of his kids, or sell it to somebody, or whatever, later on. And then if he did it with a boundary change, then he'd have to come back in and ask for another subdivision again . C. Twigg: It'd make a difference in the amount of taxes he pays if it's on a separate tax number. G. Totman: But that's up to him. tj T. Johnson: The only thing I haven't checked is whether there is a mortgage on the one piece already owned. 4 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 15 September IRK G. Totman: Lets do it this way. Lets do it as a subdivision and let him try it that way. If the bank says, no he's got a problem, then he can go back to a boundary change . Anybody else have any further questions? Monica? J. Lewis: Where's Darfler's property on this map? T. Johnson: Are you looking at this map right here? J. Lewis: You got Johnson's and Brown, and Baker. M. Carey: He's on the other side. T. Johnson: His house is right here (pointing to the map) . There's a creek that goes right through here. His house is just about 200 feet away from it. The creek is almost the dividing line, and my house is right there. G. Totman: How old is your house? T. Johnson: It probably goes back to 1840, It's white with green trim. G. Totman: Within the next six months, one or the other of you is going to have to get a different number. The only reason I mention it is I know those numbers are wrong. But with this new 911 coming in, and the post office, they are requiring that. . . . probably the guy that gave Darfler his number did it wrong. T. Johnson: Yes, they wanted to change it after they found out. But he'd changed his address and notified everybody, so he said "tough . " G. Totman: But I think that same guy is going to have to go back and tell him! M. Carey: Who was that guy, George? Do we know that guy? G. Totman: Yes. I think you do! I gave him the building permit for his house. Monica? Monica Carey read the questions on SEQR form. Answers to A, B. all of C. and D were no. The proposed action received a negative declaration. G. Totman, Everybody approved that? M. Carey: Yes. G. Totman: Now, you're going to have it surveyed? T. Johnson: Yes. We need to split it. G. Totman: When you have it surveyed and split, then you should bring a copy of it over so it can be signed and put in the folder to make it really officially. Because the Zoning Officer here won't give you a building permit for that land unless it's surveyed and signed by the surveyor that that's what's been presented here. That's it. M. Carey: We didn't make a motion to approve the subdivision. G. Totman: My apologies. I'm sorry. M. Carey: I make the motion ' that we approve this subdivision, and we'll waive any public hearing. CO lwigg: I'll second it. 5 Groton Town Plammng Board Meeting 15 September 1994 G. Totman: Normally, they're not this easy, but a subdivision like this with no other houses around it and it has much more than the required frontage and acreage, unless there's something we don't know or comes up. . . Once in a while if we have any real problems, we call a public hearing, but this being the nature of the way it is, it really. . . . as long as you're following the guidelines in the subdivision regulations. . .we have to go through the necessary paperwork. So if you bring it in to the clerk, Carol, the Deputy Town Clerk -- she does all the work for the Planning Board. George Senter is the Building Inspector. C. lw1w I second the motion. G. Totman: All in favor? (All were in favor. ) Okay. Sir -- if you 're going to file that with the County Clerk, which you should to get it recorded right, you should bring the mylar over also and have that signed because they won't accept it unless it's signed by the Chair of the Planning Board. When you get it surveyed, he'll give you two copies -- a mylar and a regular copy. Bring both of them over and leave them. We'll sign them and get them back to you. Okay -- next we have these nice people sitting here waiting. Let me pass these out to you people. Take a good look at that. This is Mr. and Mrs. Brashear. Angela, Secretary. And the Mr. 's name? G. Totman: He's not involved. He's just here holding her hand. Okay, what you guys have got in front of you is the property as it now stands. M. Carey. Where is this piece of property located at? G. Totman. Go out Sovocool Hill Road and make a right-hand turn on Durfee Road and it's right there on your right. So I 'm going to let him explain it to you . He's going to have four lots. He's got one lot now and he's going to wind up with ° four. Three on Durfee Road and the one big one that's already there, but there will be four lots when he gets done . These are the new lots over here . They are all over 200 feet of road frontage, and they are all over an acre of land. Did I explain it correctly? W. Brashear: Yes, G. Totman: Does anyone have any questions? S. Clark: These are on Durfee Road? Mr. Brashear. The three little ones are on Durfee Road and the 48 acres comes off from Sovocool Road. CO Twigg: Where does Durfee turn? How far down is the corner of Durfee? Mr. Be : It's about 1400 feet. M. Carey. So how big is the big lot? Mr. Be * About 48 acres. G. Totman: Before I get carried away here, they are here for information. If you approve of the concept they are talking about, they will be here at our next meeting with a formal application. Correct? Mr. Be* Right. G. Totman. That's why they are not on the agenda. Before they want too far with it, they just wanted to know if we'd approve of the concept. J. Lewis: So this is like an open forum, then? G. Totman. This is basically what you call Sketch Plan Review. 6 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 15 September 1994 M. Carey: So this still leaves you road frontage on Durfee Road, right? Mr. Be: Yes. G. Totman: And Sovocool Hill Road, M. Carey: Even after you divide off the big lot. That's right there will be . Mr. Be : I've got some restrictions on the land. I wrote the restrictions -- no trailers on the lots, and I think I 've got a minimum of 1500 square feet. George's Scanner: Groton Ambulance Monitors - Groton, At the Groton soccer field we have a female, conscious, head injury. . . . . G. Totman: Okay, Sorry about that, Did you understand what we're doing? Does anybody have a problem with the concept of what's being presented to you? C. TWIN: Not at all. V. Rankin: Good place for houses up there. M. Carey: I don't see any problems with the subdivision. G. Totman: (Referring to a sketch) Why don't you take that one back. Mrs. Be : Where do we get an official application? G. Totman: You haven't got it yet. Mrs. Be*. No . G. Totman: Carol didn't give you one , G. Senter. She hasn't asked for one, Mrs. Be*. No, because I called Colleen and she . . . . G. Totman: Come in and see Carol or Colleen, They'll give you the stuff to fill out, and you'll have to pay. We won't talk to you unless you pay first, We meet the third Thursday of every month . Mrs. Be : Do you make a decision the same evening? G. Totman: Normally, if it doesn't require a public hearing, If it's pretty much academic and falls within the rules and regulations, and there's no real questions about it, then we usually do it the same night, Mrs. Be*, Do we have to get it surveyed before though? G. Totman: No -- but in order to make it official, you've got to have it surveyed, You 've got four lots here -- obviously you're not going to sell one of them until you get it surveyed, We can approve it, but it becomes official when you bring the survey map in and we put a stamp on it and the Chairman of the Planning Board signs it, Because otherwise, whoever buys it won't be able to get a building permit for it, Most lawyers now ask if that's been officially subdivided. If you don't know for sure , they'll call here . If we say it was subdivided but they never came in with a survey, so we can't get a building permit, they'll tell those people to survey it and bring the proper paperwork in, Just so you understand that, Mrs. Be : Thank you very much . 7 • Groton Town Planning Board Meeting 15 September 1994 G. Totman: It's later than I thought it would be . I thought if we only had the one -- when I first told Carol we would work on Article 3: Section 351 of the Ordinance like the agenda said, I assumed there was only going to be one on the agenda. Since then, these people came in, and the Edmondson Estate was here , so it's almost 9 o'clock. Do you want to start working on it, or do you want to wait until next Thursday night? J. Lewis: I can catch a little bit of that soccer game. G. Totman: I'd just as soon go home. J. Lewis: I make a motion we adjourn this meeting. At this point, Mr. Totman asked Monica Carey to report to the Board on a meeting she had attended in Lansing, which she did. There was no second to adjournment, and the minutes of the previous meeting were not approved, as indicated in the beginning of this transcript. The meeting was essentially over at 9:48 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Joan E. Fitch Recording Secretary 8