HomeMy WebLinkAbout1993-10-14 TOWN OF GROTON
Planning Board Meeting
Thursday, October 14, 1993; 7:30 p.m.
PLANNING BOARD
(* Denotes Members Present)
* Monica Carey George Totman, Chairman
Sheldon Clark Cecil Twigg
* Verl Rankin * George VanSlyke
PUBLIC PRESENT
Leland Cornelius 724 South Main Street
Dutch Daulton 234 Locke Road
Roger Gleason 307 Old Stage Road
DeForest Hall 721 Salt Road
Oley Houghtaling 1059 Cortland Road
John and Linda Pachai 202 South Main Street
M.A. Palmer 320 Pleasant Valley Road
Colleen Presion 104 West South Street
Lyle Raymond 590 Old Stage Road
Theresa Robinson 226 Clark Street
Robert Walpole 102 Church Street
PUBLIC HEARING
George Totman read the public notice and opened the public hearing at 7:35 p. m.
George Totman explained that this meeting is to review the comprehensive plan and the
process involved in approving it. One of the first steps is to get feedback from the public,
then present the plan to the Town Board. This plan does not include any new ordinances,
but it does clarify some of the ambiguous ordinances. After this public review, the Planning
Board will work with it again, and present the revised edition at another public hearing.
George Totman introduced Joan Jurkovich, who works for the County Planning Board and
the Circuit Rider Program. Joan began by reviewing the summary. She stated that the last
review of the comprehensive plan was completed approximately 20 years ago in conjunction
with the Village of Groton. With a number of changes in the last 20 years, both the Town
Board and the Planning Board agreed that this plan should be reviewed and updated. She
explained that some of the changes that have come around are that population has increased
by 12%, housing has increased by over 30 %, and the closing of the Smith Corona plant. In
order to bring the regulations up to date, the Town Board and the Planning Board felt it was
important to review the plan. The major focus of the plan is recommending that there are
two different areas in town - high intensity areas and low intensity areas. The high intensity
areas may apply to those areas that are best suited to the more intense types of commercial
and industrial development and higher residential development. In the Executive Summary,
as well as in the comprehensive plan, is a copy of the map which shows the location of those
recommended high intensity and low intensity areas. The low intensity areas are not well
suited for a large variety of different types of uses and are not as suited for the high intensity
uses as some of the areas in town. They are best suited to more low density residential
development, agricultural uses, and some very small-scale commercial uses.
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Thursday, October 14, 1993
To define these areas in town that are best suited for higher intensity development and lower
intensity development, a lot of factors were taken into account: the natural characteristics of
the land, soil types, slopes, flood hazard areas, as well as some of the service and social
needs, such as: is there road access, is there good road access, are water and sewer available
either through a public `system or are they available in terms of there is good aquifers for
private wells, or is there good soil that will handle a septic soil better than others. The plan
also included a look at potential future growth in the town both in terms of population and
housing. It is projected that by the year 2020 the population will increase by 16 % over the
year 1990 and that the number of households will increase by about 30 %, at least based on
trends that have been apparent in the past few decades. The plan also considers that fact
that there has been a basic shift of employment patterns, not only in Groton but in the entire
area, which has been based on national and regional trends as well.
Three meetings were conducted to gather public opinion and information. They were
regarding agricultural issues, economic issues, and a general meeting gather any other issues.
In addition, a town-wide survey was conducted through several newsletters. The County
Planning Board, working in conjunction with the Town Board, has developed some very
specific recommendations addressing the issues identified by the community as well as
making some revisions to the current ordinances. The next step in the process is to
implement the plan. For the higher intensity areas, there are recommendations for some
changes to the zoning ordinance to permit a developer to create changes in the development
in the town. Another was to make a change to allow people to develop in the high intensity
zone by creating some exclusive commercial and industrial zones. For low intensity areas -
some changes to the zoning ordinance that they are recommending to permit cluster
developments and flaglots.
Another recommendation was to work towards a Capital Improvement Plan. For example,
when there are large development expenditures the cost could be spread over several years
which would help the tax base and resources for the town. Another recommendation would
permit "elder housing" in the town. This would allow people to put a small, temporary
house on their property to care for one of their relatives. Another recommendation was to
have the Town work with. the Village to develop a joint economic development program.
Joan commented that this is a very rough overview of what is included in this plan, and
referred everyone to review the Executive Summary for more details. George Totman
reaffirmed that this public hearing is to let the general public know what the Planning Board
has been doing. The Town Board and the Planning Board are looking for input from the
community as to these recommendations.
Bob Walpole - He questioned why there weren't any high intensity zones defined along the
NYS highway other than Route 38. The Village of Groton already has public water 1500 feet
beyond Lick Street to the east. He pointed out that sewer is identified for the South Main
Street as the high intensity zone. He felt the Town and the Village would run into trouble if
light commercial or high residential development was started in that area. He stated that he
had received a letter from the Village engineers that indicated that public sewer would run a
very high cost in the South Main Street area due to the elevation. He was concerned that the
Town and Village still have not identified an area suitable for light manufacturing firm to
come in, without causing problems with the DEC.
George Totman explained that Route 222 has been discussed numerous times during this
planning process. George stated that the map is showing that if there is no public water and
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Thursday, October 14, 1993
no public sewer, where the best places are to build. The South Main Street area was done
from the county standpoint as to the studies they took on the possibility of getting sewer and
water, and assuming that you could get it in that area. Bob Walpole again stressed that the
cost of this recommendation needs to be looked at. It was questioned about the feasibility of
building on the west side of South Main. Bob Walpole stated that even if it were put in this
area, the roads may not be sufficient, and it is currently in a residential area. Joan stated that
the plan addresses some of his concerns about expansion of sewer development.
Flaglots - Dutch questioned the discussion of flaglots. George Totman explained that a flaglot
is a lot that doesn't meet the required road frontage. The Town of Groton set a 200 foot road
frontage requirement for any property that is divided. To date, this is the only town in the
county that requires more than 150 feet of road frontage. He explained that there are many
lots around that could be flaglots. Some people like to be off the road farther, and don't
mind a longer driveway. George feels that this might be a better use of the land, and it puts
another house on the tax rolls. There are properties in the Town of Groton that could be
used if they were approved for a flaglot. There are other surrounding communities that
allow flaglots and haven't had a problem with them. The state only requires 15 feet for an
access. Most of the places that George is aware of don't allow less than 20 feet for a width of
a driveway, with the majority of them keeping their access up to 50 - 60 feet. Many of the
developers have left a 60-foot access for a roadway for future development of backlots. Joan
Jurkovich agreed that flaglots allow a better use of the land, opening the option of two tiers
of development. John. Pachai stated that another purpose of flaglots is allowing use of land
that is currently not legal lots. Through some development in the past, there are some lots
that are nearly landlocked, and some that are landlocked. Flaglots would open this land up
to development.
Carl Haines, Dublin Road, stated that the Town Board rejected this idea approximately a year
ago. The reasoning was based on a fear of cluster development with the allowance of
flaglots. Several farmers also expressed their concerned regarding flaglots. George Totman
agreed that cluster developments could happen, but he hasn't seen it happen anywhere. He
stated that you can restrict that a flaglot only have one parcel. Some areas have stated that
you can't have more than four properties on a private road. In so doing it would have to be
in agreement with the parties and a signed document with the Town Board that indicates
that each one of those properties owns part of that private road. Then when someone wants
to develop the land behind them, it is in their deeds that they automatically relinquish their
part of the road and the developer will then bring that road up to town specifications. In his
experience, it has been only one home per flaglot.
Bob Walpole pointed out that with the state requirement being 15 feet of access, with a 60
foot access the most any developer could have would be four lots. He questioned whether
there was any way to limit it to a maximum of four lots. George Totman agreed that it could
be controlled, in that it is all in the way it is worded. He suggested that instead of
reinventing their rules, they will look at other communities that are currently allowing
flaglots and their restrictive wording and how it is working. George Totman also explained
that developers are now being required to develop their own infrastructure.
Paper Roads - George Totman stated that the Planning Board should be planning for future
development by identifying paper roads. These paper roads would need to be in agreement
of the developer and the Planning Board. The developer would leave access for this paper
road.
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Thursday, October 14, 1993
Bob Walpole asked Joan whether the County is still awarding $5000 grants for the study of
water and sewer. Joan wasn't sure but thought it might be through the Office of
Environment Health. Bob questioned whether the Planning Board has offered this option to
the Town Board.
Lyle Raymond, ZBA Chairperson - The concept of flaglots have concerned the ZBA for a
number of years. He stated that the ZBA must work within the guidelines as they are
currently are established, regardless of their personal opinions. Speaking personally, Lyle is
in agreement with the positive discussion of flaglots. He feels that flaglots would solve a lot
of the problems that come before the ZBA.
Elder Housing - The other issue that the ZBA has dealt with is "Elder Cottage" housing. Cases
have come before the ZBA where there is an elder parent who needs care but can live semi-
independently. They need a place to house them, and often don't have a place in their
primary house, and need an "elder cottage" for them. The ordinance as it is set up is poor
for this kind of situation. He feels that this very badly needs to be addressed in the
ordinance. The ZBA has found a "loop hole" in the ordinance that addresses a detached
room. George Totman stated that 840 square feet in the ordinance now was put there after
the original ordinance was done. At that particular time, the town was getting a large influx
of small mobile homes from other areas that were putting in stricter ordinances than the
Town of Groton. Rather than making a strict ordinance on mobile homes, they put in an 840
square foot requirement on any residential unit, which at that time was the largest mobile
home made. George Totman stated that the "Elder Housing" needs to comply with the
Health Department. The requirement is that 60 - 90 days after the need is there, they need to
get rid of the house or sell it.
Recreational Housing - Lyle Raymond also discussed the use of travel trailers as housing. The
ZBA has asked the Town Board for a much better definition of what recreational housing is,
and a definition of a travel trailer so they can definitively be able to differentiate that from
regular mobile homes. He has recently sent a letter to the Town Board sharing some
thoughts regarding this. He stated that the ZBA hung one of its decisions on a case where it
did say that if some structure is occupied more than 30 days, it is no longer non-permanent
housing. George stated that he has reviewed ordinances of surrounding communities and
some don't even have requirements for square footage.
John Pachai described some development in other communities where they have a
requirement of only 1 /4 acre per lot, which makes it look more like cluster developments
used basically as senior housing. Lyle Raymond stated that public sewer would have to be
available to allow this type of development. George Totman stated that any type of cluster
development would still need to come before the Planning Board for review.
Carl Haines questioned the current requirement for 200 feet of road frontage versus the more
common requirement of 150 feet and whether the Planning Board has made any
recommendations concerning this. George Totman stated that no recommendation has been
made right now. Once the plan has been finalized and approved,..then the Planning Board
will go back and make some revisions to the zoning ordinance. Lyle Raymond stated that
the premise depends on the zone and what the ordinance is trying to accomplish. George
stated that it was done originally to meet the high density rules for 200 feet. Bob Walpole
stated that the 200 feet doesn't need to be maintained all the way back to the back lot line.
John Patchy felt that there needs to. be a buffer zone between the Village and the Town that
Town of Groton Planning Board Page 5
Thursday, October 14, 1993
is between the road frontage requirement of 200 feet to 75 feet. The frontage should depend
on the density of the area.
Cecil Twigg stated that the soil maps indicated where certain types of housing could be put
in certain areas. Joan Jurkovich stated that the soil types were a large part of the deciding
factor for the maps, but the areas marked for high intensity is clear that they won't all be the
same types of zones. The plan differentiates that some of those areas would be better suited
for different types of development.
George Totman stated that discussion has been made about Route 222 or Route 38 being a
logical place for some type of development. He stated that if they don't plan for any future
development and revise the zoning ordinance so that no more residential housing can be
built in those areas, then commercial or industrial businesses will not be enticed into coming
into those areas. There is an Economic Development Committee that is being reactivated in
the Village and will be planning for development with both the Town and Village.
SCM Plant - Bob Walpole began discussing the SCM plant. They are working on a plan for
the waste water that they are taking out of the ground water for the next 8 - 15 years. The
Village is on record at this point for not allowing them to dump any of the waste water into
the sewer treatment plant. Their next move is to get a permit to dump into the Owasco Inlet.
He stated that they are applying to get a permit from the DEC. Bob is concerned about the,
metals and all the unknowns that they may dump. He felt that Town Board and the
Planning Board needs to take a strong stance regarding this since it will definitely affect the
community. John Pachai stated that this would cost 'SCM $3000 a year to dump into sewage
treatment plant, and if they were to upgrade their system it would cost $2-3000. The bottom
line is liability.
Sign Ordinance - Lyle Raymond stated that the sign ordinance, as currently written, doesn't
make much sense. He felt is needs to be overhauled. George Totman stated that this sign
ordinance has been a big problem for several years. They have checked with the state and
county as to their requirements, and they won't have a problem as long as the ordinances
don't interfere with the ditch.
Annexation - Bob Walpole suggested the possibility of the town annexing some land to the
village for development purposes. The benefit the Village has to offer is low cost power.
John Pachai stated that there is also a workforce. He didn't see any loss of tax dollars to the
town, but they would gain electricity. Oley Houghtaling stated that he just moved from
another community where he did annex his house into the village from the town because of
water, and the only thing the town lost was the plowing and the town tax, but the village
did gain taxes.
George Totman questioned what the general feeling is of the Town of Groton today. Theresa
Robinson suggested that the industrial development area on Route 222 is currently on only
one side of the road, and should be expanded to both sides. Cecil Twigg stated that the
depth of the zone also needs to be questioned. Lyle Raymond questioned, what if there is an
owner of property for 20 years and industry comes into that area, how does the owner then
get their money out of the property. Cecil Twigg raised the scenario of farmers who might
be relying on their farms for their retirement, and when the area surrounding them is
designated as commercial/industrial, they may not be able to sell their land as farm land but
instead may have to sell it for development. George stated that historically, if a strip
development is started, the land may be more valuable selling to those types of developers;
. Town of Groton Planning Board Page 6
Thursday, October 14, 1993
but if it never starts, what does the landowner do with it. Theresa Robinson feels that there
needs to be diversified businesses and are area to put them to be successful.
George again asked for specific feedback as to this proposal from the community present.
He would like to make sure their suggestions are included.
Carl Haines felt that it was important that the town look at housing and how to provide it.
He would also like to see that the town provide some opportunity for light industry - find
some land the designate for industry, then open the rest up for residential development. It
should be close to the village line for the option to annex to them for power. He feels the
bigger pressure would be towards providing housing to be able to bring in .industry. John
Pachai stated that he likes Groton as a "bedroom" community. He does suggest encouraging
small-scale industrial development in one physical area. George Totman stated that the Site
Plan Approval process is a useful tool used by the Planning Board. He stated that when a
major company wants to come in (McDonalds, Day and Night), they decide where it will go.
John clarified that he wasn't referring to commercial businesses, but was referring to
industrial businesses.
Lyle Raymond suggested that the town could purchase the land from a private landowner to
start to build an "industrial park." The town would loose the taxes and may have to hold it
for 10 years, but felt it was an alternative worth considering.
Theresa Robinson questioned page seven of the comprehensive plan (third line up from the
bottom) regarding the, town providing free heat to the veterans building. George clarified
that that statement should be removed entirely. Theresa stated that they do contribute to the
Veterans but the money is not allocated for heat. . It is a separate line item in the budget.
This public hearing was closed at 9:50 p.m.
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