HomeMy WebLinkAbout1993-05-20 TOWN OF GROTON
Planning Board Meeting
Thursday ,, May 204 1993 ,E 8 : 00 p . m .
PLANNING BOARD
( * Denotes Members Present )
* Monica Carey
* Verl Rankin
* George Totman ,, Chairman
* Cecil -:I ' Twigg
* George VanSlyke
* Sheldon Clark
PUBLIC PRESENT
Philip & Eleanor Munson ( PM and EM )
David and Donna Brong ( DaB and DoB )
Donald Scheffler ( DS )
Mr . & Mrs . Wayne Locke ( WL )
James Finnerly ( JF )
PUBLIC HEARING, Eleanor B . Munson , Subdivision ( Minor )
GT : Mr . Totman opened the public hearing at 8 : 09 p . m . ,+ read the
public notice ,, and invited any questions from the public present .
DaB : Asked where abouts on Sovocool Hill Road .
PM : At the corners of Luce and Goodman Roads . ( A map was provided
by Mr . Munson for Board ' s review for clarification purposes .
GT : Asked if there were any other questions .
DS : Expressed concern about drainage - - stone ditches and tile - - flood
concerns . Water will run over instead of under .
CT : Mr . Twigg believes that the water flow cannot be shut off .
PM : Stated that Faye Benson bought property east of Donny ' s , had
a wet spot and extended a ditch in field . He is worried about
what is going to be tied into his ditch . How many feet back
is it ?
DSO Asked 150 ?
GT : Mr . Totman brought map of Benson ' s property out for clarification
and Board ' s review .
MC : Ms . Carey asked if a ditch could run into the road way .
PM : Stated that Donny does not want a ditch in front of his place .
GT : Asked if anything was stated in the deed .
DSO Agreed there was nothing stated in the deed .
%Town of Groton Planning Board Meeting Page 2
Thursday , May 20 ,, 1993
CT : Mr . Twigg mentioned the fact that it was once a natural flow
but because ' the land wanted to be farmed ,, a drain was put under -
ground .
PM : Asked where the steel posts were located .
DS : Replied two pass the ditch . Mr . Scheffler wanted to know who
and when survey was done .
PM : Asked if there was a survey stake or a marker .
GT : Encouraged the meeting to move along .
JF : Wanted to know if there were going to be any restrictions
against mobile homes or double wides .
PM : Stated there will be no mobile homes but double wides will
probably be accepted . He also stated that all surveys were
done away from the highway .
GT : Stated there is a 50 - feet survey requirement .
PM : Asked Mr . Finnerty if his deed called to the center of the
highway .
JF : Replied with he believes it does .
GT : Asked if there were any more questions . If not , suggested
closing of hearing . A vote will be conducted later this
evening after the rest of business has been completed . Verl
Rankin made a motion to close the public hearing and Cecil
Twigg seconded .
Review of Wayne Locke ' s MVRS Permit
GT : Asked WL to explain to the Board what he would like to have
done .
WL : Replied with the fact that he would like to increase ' -. the . inumber
of vehicles which he had down by the garage . Serious problems
with customers having service done to their vehicles and
not picking them up . Wants to hold these vehicles until
he receives payment for services rendered .
CT : Asked how many cars did we allow you .
WL : Five . ( These five cars are turn - key cars . )
MC : Asked how many cars was he allowed to work on .
WL : Three outside .
11
CT : Are you selling cars also ?
WL : Yes . He would like five saleable cars , Some cars are waiting
for parts .
.TOWN OF GROTON PLANNING BOARD MEETING Page 3
Thursday ,, May 2041 1993
MC : How many cars are up there now ?
WL : 11 or 12 .
MC : Are there any junk cars ?
WL : I pull parts and other salvage from vehicles and disposes rest .
The disposal turnaround time is within three days .
GT : Explained that if the zoning board officer ( ZBO ) finds cars
stations il. legally ,, it is the ZBO ' s responsibility to get them
moved out of the Town . He also stated that Wayne has 11
cars when he should only have three .
WL : Business has been picking up and have been doing long - distance
repair work . One area mentioned was Syracuse .
GT : The Town allows Mr . . Locke three outside cars and - five turn - key.
cars .
WL : Requested he would like 10 and not three cars .
GT : Says he understands WL ' s predicament but the Board has a
responsibility to the Town . An example given was if his
neighbor wants to sell his home and he can ' t because of
having junk cars around in the neighborhood .
WL : Asked if any complaints were made against him .
GT : Yes .
WL : Has anyone made complaints against the Truck ` . Stop ?
Are they under a different zoning than me ?
GT : They are in a different zoning and under site - plan review .
GT : They are not junk cars . They are turn - key cars .
WL : Bull . I hate to argue this point ,( but . I know for a fact
that there " are at least 20 cars that are not turn - key cars .
GT : In that case ,, the ZBO will have to make a trip up there . It
is suppose to be a sales operation . If there are junk cars
up there , it is up to the Town or the citizens of Groton to
motivate the ZBO .
WL : Expressed concern 'about R & M - - if they receive the same zoning
rules and regulations .
GT : Stated they are under the Village and that the Town was not
aware of the zoning laws for the Village .
MC : Suggested to WL to check out the Village Zoning Board .
WL : How long has this zoning law been into effect ?
CT : Since your application has been made . There is no blanket number .
Your situation is different from that of the Truck Stops .
TOWN OF GROTON PLANNING BOARD MEETING Page 4
Thursday , May 20 ,F" 1993
CT : How long have you been in businesstAthere ?
WL : Since the first of the year .
GT : Made the clarification that it was meant legal and illegal .
WL : Two years .
CT : Business has picked up , and you want to change the number of cars
allowed ?
WL : Immensely . Yes ,( exactly .
MC : Do you want as many turn - key cars or less ?
WL : Want to keep turn - key cars because I want to get my dealer ' s
license .
CT : What complains were made against WL ? ( This question was directed
at Board Chairman . )
GT : Town of Groton ZBO is required to periodically check out
illegal cars . Does the individual have a permit ? How many
is he / she allowed ? These things are checked out . What good
are rules if they are not enforced ? The complaint was 10 to
15 junk cars around the property .
CT : What were the complaints being made since the permit was
made out ?
GT : The public somehow knows how many cars are allowed when
permit is given and when they start counting cars and
the number , is over the limit ,( the public calls up .
WL : Stated that he conducts business on a priority basis . He
waits for the customer to call him as far as what action
needs to be taken next . He mentioned a Fierro case .
GT : It was discussed last year at this time . It was stated
that three was plenty . A suggestion was made that if five
or six cars were granted ,, could a diagram be provided as
to how the cars will be situated ? Is this a reasonable
request ?
DSO I know what WL is saying .
SC : Mr . Clark asked the Chairman about different opinions .
GT : Stated we listened to those opinions and take a vote .
SC : He can understand WL ' s situation and sympathizes because it
is his way of living .
GVS : Agreed with Mr . Clark ,
CT : Problem is when you drive by there , it is not in order . It looks
too junky . If a place was designated to have you park these
vehicles ,, it would not look so junky .
TOWN OF GROTON PLANNING BOARD MEETING Page 5
Thursday , May 20 , 1993
GT : Where is the level land from your garage ?
WL : South side .
GT : How big is your garage .)
WL : 30 x 34
GT : 34 long or deep ?
WL : 34 long . �47
GT : Then it is not level ? It is 30 deep .
WL : No ,, it is not .
GT : Before we can agree on anything , we have to give the ZBO a
diagram and list .
CT : Have WL bring in a diagram both personal and turn - key cars
to show the Planning Board where and how he wants to park
his cars . Do not let the Board try to giture it out for
WL how to park his cars . Let WL figure it out himself .
SC : Mentioned that a this new information and a decision be made
at next month ' s meeting and motion was made for this ; George
VanSlyke seconded . VOTE : ALL IN FAVOR : MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY
Finnerty ' s Purchase of Munson ' s Land in 1990
GT : In 1990 ,E Mr . Finnerty bought two lots from Munson . When house
was built and deed was made they put those two lots into one .
It was decided that they need two houses on the lots and want
given back the original two lots that was made into one . Go
back to the original approved agreement .
CT : Asked JF if the two lots were one tax parcel .
JF : Said yes .
CT : Doesn ' t understand why this situation was brought to the
Planning Board because the tax parcel wants to be divided .
GT : Explained to the Board and Cecil why it was brought to the
Board and that the general consensus was there was nothing
wrong in making the lot back into two lots . ( Bypass Section 340 ) .
VR : Made the motion to put back the lot into two lots and Sheldon
Clark seconded . VOTE ALL IN FAVOR : MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY .
Brong ' s 18 - foot Garage
GT : The Brongs want to build a two - story garage ( unattached ) . A place
to store the car and other accessories . One that is 18 feet high .
The ordinance says it can only be 12 foot high . Normally , the
procedure would be to go through the ZBO and in this case be turned
down . Go to ZBA and file for a variance . The ordinance states
that the structure has to be 12 foot with a zoning permit .
TOWN OF GROTON PLANNING BOARD MEETING Page 6
Thursday , May 20 ,4 1993
Greater with a site - plan review . Therefore ,I Mr . Brong is
requesting a site - plain review to build an accessory garage
that is 18 feet high .
GT : Do you have ," any plans with you ?
DB : Mr . David Brong brought up for the Board ' s review blueprints
of the garage to be build .
GT : Did you draw a site - plan ?
DaB : Didn ' t realize we had to .
GT : How much land do you own ?
DaB : Just the acre .
GVS : Why does he want a garage so far away from the house ?
DaB : For one thing , the septic system coming out from the house and
the entrance to the basement .
SC : So what do we gotta do here ?
GT : I guess we should have a site plan . It would be helpful . Doesn ' t
see anything wrong in giving Mr . Brong a special permit for putting
an accessory garage . It is not blocking any of the neighbors '
views . Believes that ' s the reason why the ordinance says 12 feet
high is because you may block the view of the neighbors - - obstruc -
tion of view . And as long as this garage is not obstructing any
view , and the special permit is made out ,+ the ZBO can approve it .
The ; gongs brought in two signatures from neighbors living on
both sides of the Brongs - - Mike Warner and Ronald Crow ( ? )
MC : Where on Pleasant Valley Road?
11
DOB : Towards Cobb Street .
GT : Suggested a motion for the Brongs to receive a special permit
to build their 18 - foot garage . George VanSlyke made the motion ;
Monica Carey seconded . VOTE : ALL IN FAVOR : MOTION CARRIED
UNANIMOUSLY Totman closed the hearing at ' 9 : 17 p . m .
Return of ,Munson ' s Minor Subdivision Case
GT : Opened the Planning Board meeting with the discussion of
Eleanor Be Munson ' s Minor Subdivision . Welcomed any comments
and / or suggestions .
CT : Says he can do whatever he wants to to the " land , but if the
the ditch is disrupted ,, someone is going to be in trouble .
Whoever is going to buy the land is going to be responsible
for the drainage of water . Flood concerns .
MC : Suggested that a stipulation be put into the deed .
TOWN OF GROTON PLANNING BOARD MEETING Page 7
Thursday , May 20 ,E 1993
Suggestions and dimensions were discussed at length among the Board
members .
CT : If the ditch' is plugged ,, the water will run over top of ground .
GT : Re - emphasized the fact that rules and regulations would have
to be followed . Any suggestions ?
MC : The reason why we have a public hearing is to listen to any
problems . Mr . Munson has a request but a concerned citizen
is stepping in .
VR : Expressed frontage concerns .
GVS : Is there any legal right that can restrict this ? Subdivision ,,
James JeffriesiI Old Stage Road ,I case was brought up for an
example . Do we want to accept the subdivision with the
reservation ' that the water system could be a problem ?
MC : Is there even room for a septic house ? Expressed County
Health Department concerns . What about the PERC test ?
CT : Expressed real estate concerns .
GT : Majority of subdivisions have been in reverse situations .
Normally ,, we do not have to worry about neighbors ' water .
GVS : Can we hold off making a decision until we can get advise from
the Town lawyer ?
LEGAL CONCERNS WERE EXPRESSED .
GVS : Is there a problems that PM doesn ' t know that a ditch is there ?
DS : PM does know that it is there .
GT : Brought up , the Jeffries Subdivision Case on Old Stage Road .
CT : Subdivision was approved with the stipulation that the run - off
doesn ' t affect the water works .
GT : Where are the, drainage ditches ?
CT : Expressed concern of accountability .
GT : Approve with the condition that a subdivision print shows
where ditches are on property ( 3 & 4 ) - - depth from ground
level . Have it typed on diagram to show exactly where they
are so if somebody should want to buy it , this information
will be provided . Prospective buyer would be aware : Decision
is to make subdivision with a stipulation .
GVS : Made a motion to the above suggestion made by GT . Sheldon
Clark seconded . Again ,, legality concerns were brought up .
There was one absention .
VR : What about Scheffler ' s land situation ?
NO VOTE WAS MADE AND GVS RESCINDED HIS MOTION .
TOWN OF GROTON PLANNING BOARD MEETING Page 7 -
Thursday , May 20 ,E 1993
Suggestions and dimensions were discussed at length among the Board
members .
CT : If the ditch is plugged ,, the water will run over top of ground .
GT : Re - emphasized the fact that rules and regulations would have
to be followed . Any suggestions ?
MCz The reason why we have a public hearing is to listen to any
problems . Mr . Munson has a request but a concerned citizen
is stepping in .
VR : Expressed frontage concerns .
GVS : I.s there any legal right that can restrict this ? Subdivision ,
James Jeffries , Old Stage Road , case was brought up for an
example . Do we want to accept the subdivision with the
reservation , that the water system could be a problem ?
MC : Is there even room for a septic house ? Expressed County
Health Department concerns . What about the PERC test ?
CT : Expressed real estate concerns .
GT : Majority of subdivisions have been in reverse situations .
Normally ,, we do not have to worry about neighbors ' water .
GVS : Can we hold off making a decision until we can get advise from
the Town lawyer ?
LEGAL CONCERNS WERE EXPRESSED .
GVS : Is there a problems that PM doesn ' t know that a ditch is there ?
DS : PM does know that it is there .
GT : Brought up the Jeffries Subdivision Case on Old Stage Road . ,
CT : Subdivision was approved with the stipulation that the run - off
doesn ' t affect the water works .
GT : Where are the drainage ditches ?
CT : Expressed .concern of accountability .
GT : Approve with the condition that a subdivision print shows
where ditches are on property ( 3 & 4 ) - - depth from ground
level . Have it typed on diagram to show exactly where they
are - so if somebody should want to buy it , this information
will . be provided . Prospective buyer would be aware . Decision
is to make subdivision with a stipulation .
GVS : ' Made a motion to the above suggestion made by GT . Sheldon
Clark seconded . Again ,, legality concerns were brought up .
There was one absention .
VR : What about Scheffler ' s land situation?
NO VOTE WAS MADE AND GVS RESCINDED HIS MOTION .
TOWN OF GROTON PLANNING BOARD MEETING Page 8
'Thursday , May 20 ,E 1993
GVS : Made the comment of the floor is again open and that others
should tell the Board of how they feel .
MC : Expressed again if the Planning Board was legally covered .
CT : Suggested that legal advice be sought .
GVS : Mentioned that he brought this up earlier �� but that no one
was really agreeing to it .
GVS : Made the motion to get the Town lawyer to see if Planning
Board can put a restriction on the subdivision . The Planning
Board will wait to hear from legal counsel .
MC : Seconded the motion .
GVS : Made the motion to adjourn this meeting ; Verl Rankin seconded .
VOTE : ALL IN FAVOR ; MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY
Meeting adjourned at 10 : 03 p . m .
Submitted by Penny Bogardus
The next meeting is scheduled for June 17 �� 19930