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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1992-08-20 TOWN OF GROTON PLANNING BOARD Meeting , Thursday , August 20 , 1992 , 8 : 00 P . M . BOARD PUBLIC PRESENT * George To''tman , Chairman Lyle Raymond , Zoning * Monica Carey Board of Appeals * David Chaitterton Roger Gleason , Old Stage Rd . * George Van Slyke Joan Jurkowich and * Verl Rankin Jeannie Barrett from the Cecil Twigg Tompkins County Planning Sheldon Clark Dept . ( * present ) i G . TOTMAN , Chairman of the Board , opened meeting intro - ducing Joan Jurkowich and Jeannie Barrett from the Tompkins County Planning Department . TOTMAN & The girls are here to talk about the . public meetings coming up and how to prepare for them . JURKOWICH * Jeannie is going to hand out papers we want to go over before these meetings to make sure you are comfortable with the way it is laid out . On Monday , the topic is Economic Development . Fred Paris from NYSEG and Mike Sta m from the area of Development in Tompkins County , are goin to talk about what communities can do to attract business s , what businesses look for from communities ; sort of that kind of thing . After they give a fairly brief presentati n , maybe 30 minutes , there will be questions and answers the discussions . It all depends on the size of group which shows up . TOTMA * As I understand , the purpose of these meetings is to hear from them , not to tell them that their ideas area~; Page 2 8 / 20 / 92 PB - Gleason. Dept . of Planning rOTMAPI : ( con. t ' d ) bear from them ; not to tell, them that; their ideas are no good . The whole object is to get al. l. of thi s information. as to what they think we should be doing . JURKOWI CFI Yes . the whole idea is to get people to talk . If we have too big a turns utol we will. have to break into groups . We ' ll pick one person. out of eacli group to give us a I�tliree minute discussion of the major item of concern . After , we can. have discussion. of other planning issues . Basically , the same outline goes for the other meetings . Carl. Crispell. , from Cooperative Extension , Will be at; the meeting Thursday , to talk about Agriculture and t; he conflicts with residential. development . September dust; a general open. discussion . We thought: weld take a few minutes at. the beginning to just; summarize the results of the st:trvey and to talk about what, happened at; the tw..o previous meetings . Then. follow it, tip with where we arf: going to go from there, TOTMAN The meetings all. start at 7 : 00 P . M . JURKOWI CFI : Hopefully get out: at; about; , 9 : 00 P . M . 'PO 'PMAP1 : What our goal. is that; we are working on. redoing the Cl;omprelien. sive Plan. for the Town of Groton. anal even. tuall. y ch11 anging some of the Ordinance and Rules and Regulations that; need be . We want; the people to feel. that; t; liey have a strong in. pctt as to what ' s going on. . JURKOWICII : There will. be other papers handed out at; the meetings . That ' s it , we jt;tst wanted to bring you up to speed on Page 3 8 / 20 / 92 ' I' ll. - Gleason. ` Dept . Planning JURKONICFi '': ( con. t ' d ) where we are going next; Week . 'TO 'TMAPJ : Oke Thank you Ladies . Do we uTan. t to pass the min. iltes " from the May , June , and Jul. y rleetin. g ,�? CIIA'I TER 'TOPJ : I make the motion to pass the minutes , al. thoi:igh , there is one statement ( statement read , wi1. 1. be corrected ) . , I make the motion to approve the May , June , and. Jul. y 'minutes from the meetings . CAREY : Second it . A1. 1. in, favor /Mot; ion. passed i 'TOTMAPJ : T, yl. e came to t�1. 1k- a little bit about a conversation that we have had concerning some of the probl. ems that; the Board of Appeal. s have got from the Sign. Ordinanccc,- . Ile just; wanted to go over it With the Planning Board 1) ein. g that our net j.esul. t; of al. ]. these things that we will. ln. rol. jre 3� e doing this next; week 214�41,1 some recommended changes on. the Board. itsell. f . Fie had some ideas on. some of the. things and that is why lie is here . RAYMOPdD : Mostly it is just; to drai,r the Board ' s attention to the fact that we have had a probl. em with the interpreting olf the Sign. Ordinance anal we think it would be liel. pful. iif vwTe could get together and discuss it . TO 'TMAN : One of the things that; we have a problem with is t; liat it; says 10 ft e from the road riglit of way . Weil. .. in, many cases. , that; 10 ft . from the road carries it; back p �li := t the porch . In. checking with the County and State , they really don ' t care as Long as they are past the ditch and as long as it is not obstructing their view . Page 4 8 / 20 ; 92 PB - Gleason. Dept . of t l. an. n. in. g rOTMAN : ( con. t; ' d ) It; is just a problem with the way we have it writ; ten. up . What; we Eire sugge st; in. g is to look into t; hat anal review it and if t; hey have any, qualms about; changing CHATTERT0N Right now , t; hey have to get a Variance don. ' t; they ? RAYMO DID : That ' s on. r of the first; questions I have . If the house , like t; he one in. Mclean for example , v7as already t; () o Cl. () Se t0 t; ale 1' oadj again accordin. g t; o the County lregulations in. the Town. , the only place they could put a sign is on the house . Phe fact; t; hat t; hey were stAl. l. closer than. our regulations says would ln. dlcate t; hey need a 17ar lance . I have ral sed a que st; lon. here ; do we Peed to have t; he Zoning Board of Appeals , t; he whole, , oard , sit; t; hrough a ' - arlance for every ding; sign. that t; o go on. a st; ruct; ure being it ' s already legal to be in. that Zone an.y way and it; is already thei e . We already leave 1" eglAl. at; ions on t; he size any way ; whether it; is on. f, he structure or a detached sign. . , I just. raised that; r, Els a guest; lon to yol;l guy to ctiew over as t; o what; you 0 I' hink . Do you think we need to meet, every time someone wants to put a sign. up on their building for a f% ar. ian. ce especially if it; is Closer to Uie ruad then it all *o-us ? C I IA'P 'P E IZ 'P O PI :+ The al. t; ernat; ive to that would be if we are going t; o leave it; in t; he Variance , would be to have somebody hike George Sent; er approve it . RAYMOND : the alternat; ive would be t; o write the r7onin. g Code in. £31:1c7 P d ' E, 5 8 , 20 / 92 PB3 G'l. easonl Dept . P1. an:n. in. g V RAYMOND : ( con. t ' d ) - < a .� it al. l. ovi the ,sign. be placed can. the , tructur €- . If i structure ' q s - e - ] sign. , - �!It; hE_ i ., cl. o ., er to the road h � the Ij _ a d than.n. t, 1 - a 1. 1. ;George would have to do then is to make sure it meets iithe usual. size . I 11 CFFATTER 'I' OP1j : What if yoi,l get somebody who doesn ' t wan. t to piit; a sign. ion the house ? RAYM PTD : That ' s what; hive you t got o cYletFr on. . Y t 0 rMAP1 : N I ti s o me , there � ,, an. ea .. .aol. ution. to it; . It i .� to I Y eliminate that 10 fto away, from the road right of way . l IIf the sign. meets the requirements , obviously , they P j,can. ' t put; it. in the ditch ' because an. ybody knows yoi,i can ' t put; a sign. down in. ditch especial. l. y if it needs to be cl. ean. ed out . o . If they put, it; on. the home side u of the ditch , it is not obst rilct; in. g anybody anal the I� IIIcoun. ty aUP � n. � t care , the Stdtedo , S ' t care ; ,, o why do 17e have that 10 ft . back from the road right, of way ? k RANK. IPd : F' akE_ it out; . rOTMAN : My suggestion. is to take that; 10 ft . out of there because it; is not, goin. g to hurt anybody an.y i,.Tay . We have re a� la I. at3d the size O f the sign. . In man . y cases , when, you have to go back that far , it- defeats the purpose , U whE- n: o » az €� driving o. ol�r the don ' t Y _F n. t, F1 _ road , oil don. t see ' t- Y z c: ny way . RAYMOND liBy the time you go 10 ft, . out; from the road ric7 T it, of way . , IL ogi arb out about 35 ft . out Itliere . It; is so dan. g ri I �14 far . back , you Can. ' t see it an. y way . I ,I F.ZAP1KIPd : It; wwoul. d save yogi cal. l. in. g a meeting ever t; im , voil I�jj Pane 6 8 / 2„ 0 / 92 Dept .. Plain. n. iri p � g 11 Rj-^kPJKIN ( cl,,on. t; ' d ) wanted a Variance on. t; Yiis . CFFA'A' TERTO;N : Why was this put; as 10 ft. . t.o begin. with ? Why was that; Reg ul. at; ion. put. in. ? POPMAPI : - r , ` - - II I Can. ' 1VC_ VOI;I m 11'1. tE.? r � 1' E' t- "i ` 1 g _ , � t on. a .� to �•, Y. 1t 1d �� 5 put � y 1 -1 p . in. . Back , years ago , we dldn. ' t; have E.1 Rl;ll. es anal r r RE_ yulat- lOn. .� fo ]: lOwn. .- . Wc_. were 1. 1 .� t; C. . nir). t; 0 professionals g p from t; he outside . Man. y times , the 1) 1. an. n. in. g B and ,nembers in. general. , it down. anal make up rules or suggest rules anal give tiiem t. o tiie Town. Board. . P E' � c'h _ n Y'I t 1 E g _ y .aa .yr li 17e1. 1. , Look , good , pass it . Then later , tYie Plan. n. in.g Board members don ' t enact; tYiese rul. es . It is tYie it Code En. forc-_ emen. t Officer who does . They ; trying don ' t-- realiz e t. lie probl. ems lie gets into t; o t > rt1. > s �14 - that; t; hE_ v make . CHATTER `POP•d : What do we have to do now send . . . . . . . iOIMAN : Wel. 1 , what; the Poj7n Board asked us to do is get; t- _1 . � .- 'r eSe P! t; Yiings altogether . Once we get .through with t; Yie u 171an. n. in. g Board meetings coming up next. week anal IASt; en t- o what � a t; he Leo Lc_ comp_ 11 � z• ' t- Y sit - - F. r 1 , 1 w E_ 1. 1. „ 1 t; d p r own. �� n. a put ln. g _Ill to eth . l . R _ m:- m ) _ ] r t- hE Poin. B ) - lo Tasked l;l s 1. 0 submit a big package to t. li m in. Jar3. ua ]: v of al. l. Uic probl. ems or what- havE� . or � - .1 , in. .� tead of one- y n. ._ at a t; ime . My on. l. ° ) r0r) l. em iv i t; h t Y] -y r. at, is if we have t, o � do that , some changes real. 1y OYioul. d be made right; cjway l a , yol;l see them . It; might; take a year or t; 170 to get a change made . Lit; tie things like Sign. Ordinances , what . SIN • III PagE' 8 20 2 I, PB - G1. E, ason j Dept; Pl. an. n. in. g l TOTMAN ( con. t ' c ) Ilil �IOt; YlE? r towns do , is to make a separate 1. 00ii1. 1. aw ' for tllem . So , then, you can cYlan. ge tliem any time III, without cYlan. gin. g the whole Ordiri an. ce . That might lie I a sl;tggest ion. somebody might; want t; c) make to the Town. Board , These are things that; wlic n. we et through with g g � i t- Yl E_ . E 1 information meetings , TE VP got t o sit; t, down. w n. together maybe as a' grol1 , or form a Committee amongst 1. ourselves and get; al. l. this stuff together . CHATTERTOPI : You know , on this Sign Ordinance , the State 11as got a _ g Iral. ing now , that, they iron. t al. loJ signs on. tY _ > la , of ,IIIthe road . - IZ^XYPZOND : George Sen: t; er has cal. l. ed th ( State . Ile ' ._ ca1. Ier; III Co rntv too . A good exam, 1. _ i7 the Croton. CY_ lil. d CentEr r f Ylat s g. n. 1S ln. a distan. CE? tYl �at; Z'ir.� Sa `T _ 1 :; 11. 1. E? gtAl. . r Il r CHA TER r0rd IDid an. y body cYleck witi-t the State ? ri r I 0r rMAN iti4 e are 3 - - , r are k not- t- � . ] Y. . in. - about b_ g il. l. lx) a �. G .. . 6� e a3- � ta ]. nin. . ' g about 1. ltt1. e signs that. are advel t; lSln. g blASin. eS . eS . E RAYP701111) : 'PYie conversation that George Totman and I have talked: about. is that; "JO shol.il. d put; something in. the Orc; ina. n. ce that; irot;ll. d give the To1.rn. dist; an. ce(. . It is OK with u II s it fblat this laoui. d 1) e . slak. ject; to the approval. of the County, anal State Road Superin. ten. dE= n. ts . As long as they approved , and it minets our RuIes anal Regul. at; ion. s in. the Ordin. an. ce Illl �I'i 1t- lien that ' ,> fine , "}).11,:t;,, people will. be ;) lit on. notice r then. that; E; ur e we -a feet-, �. l. l. otr you to plat it . so man. - feE_ t, it I�4 .Y IIfrora the Centel' 1 � doesn ' t. 1n. E_. l) 1;1t; in. fact; dOesn. meet; the it Page. 8 8 ,r 2 O ,r 9 2 PB - Gleason. Dept, Planning RAYMOND : ( con. t ' d ) approval of the County , t; lien. it. is ilp to them . TOTMAN : We can. say , you have t. o meet; tale size requirement; s and " y011 ' Ve got aphrOVal. . . . . . You have to meet. the .3ize d periiit; :> for the sign . We ' ll allow it as long as the mun. icipal. ity t; hat owns t; liat; road in front of you agrees wit; h where you put it . 'Pliat ' s up to you . If you put it in. a County night; of way , you have a problem . We are just telling you that; you can. put it on. your property . If you plat; it on. Coian. ty property , you got a problem witli them , not us . CHATTER 't ON : Removal of that; 10 ft; . would solve the problem . RAYMOND : The last conversat; ion. I had wit; h George Sen. ter , lie said i he talked with the Coun. t. y and they told him because I raised the question with him t; hat . . . who takes precedence ? Can, the rz, on. in. g Board of Appea. l. s give a Variance to place a detached sign, within. the County right of fray ? Does the County take precedence ? We can. ' t; do that; or not. ? George says that t; liey will. refer it; to the Town. . Nowe whether t; hat; ' informal or lallet; llE? ]' that ' s official. is somet; hin. g ghat yoia . guys need to find out; . I i oul. d si:iggest; that you get comet; ping in. ,•rrit. ing . TOTMAN : The Zoning Board of Appeals would like to have as clarify Ule idea of having granny flat; s or elrt; ra places on property for in - lairs or out; - laws or putting an apartment; in. the garage next; to the house ; on hot•r, it affects the O; rdin. an. ce because it is very vague in hoer they handle that. right. now . One of Ule ot; ber t; hints Page 9 8 / 20 ,/ 92 PB - Gleasdn. Dept . of Planning TOTMAN : ( con. t ' d ) we didn. ' t talk about; is if someon. es mother or mother - in. - law were to live in a grz nn. y flat; , woi;il. d there have to be an extra 200 ft . of road fron. tac: e ? CIIATTERT011 : What if they were just adding on. a room or addition. or apartment; for rent ? RAYMOND : I suggest you guys sho ill i. d plat that in. the Ordinance . That is , if this is allowed that this can not be used as rental. purposes . TOTMAN : An. ot; filer problE:-lm i s i f you t garage r , cZ { E a Cara e and put an. _ _ �. efficiency apartment; into it , there is clot of money put into that .. if your raothel' = ln. - l. at: passes away in a few months , years , then you no longer need it . What; u are yoia economically going to do with it ? I like the idea of the granny flat : in. st; ead of the garage . RA � _ a Yi40P1D : A -� ( �:� � - �person I talked to at; Corn. el. l. , ., uggest, E_ a that; other. towns have been putting a provision. in where they do the permanent one rather than. the movctahl. e. : like in. the garage . _ `TANSLYKE : I guess I got something I need clarified . Whe- n it, comes to putting a permanent structure on. , what ' s the difference in taking your house and remodeling it; to a tyro - family : you in one , renting ti-le other , verse £3 someone who has t: 71E? 11:' house and adds On. a granny flat; over the Cyal' c3: ge ? What ' s the difference in doing that in. renting out, or taking part of your house anal legally bein. g, . able to rent that. out ? TOTMAN „ Very good c- uestion. George . What; you might. do in some Page 10 8 0/ 2 92 II � d B - Gleason NyeP y Planning D,ep`t . jt TOTMANe ( cont ' d ) cases ; that is when you have your Zone intensities . Low intensity , high intensity , and medium intensity . PI i 11 Yold can allow them in certain zones and not in other zon s . ir • kin about re - districtin , we start VAPSLYKE . So when we start talking g d g talking about where the Industrial. Zone is going to be ,I d It and we have got to start saying where we can put this ki d I Of thing . TOTMAll : (Maybe in the medium intensity you , can allow this type of & thing , but not,"1n._ the low intensity . Any more questions of Lyle ? Teresa asked me to bring up the Planning Board Meeting on August 31st in Ithaca . They are sending a P letter out and notifying all the elected officials in Pr t the County to see if they would 11ke to participate . It' i14 � is on the Water Distribution problems in the County and ilY ii .� They are explorator the solutions and things like that . �J f meetings looking into the water problems . RAYMOND : It is the Water Quality Strategy for the County . TOTMAN It is on August 31 , at 7 * 30 P . M . They� are ., 'meeting in Ithaca in . the Conference Room at 20 East Green Street . n noes anyone want to go to that ? CAREY . II would like to try to go . Where is it ? RAYMOPdD : The Department of Developmental Flealth . G . TOTMAN , opened discussion of the Major Subdivision proposed by Roger Gleason , Old Stage Road , '. Tax Map No . 121 - 121 . 2 and „ topiciof Mined - Land Reclamation Program . V, TOTMAPd : Let ' s take up .Roger now . Fie has two things tonight . At the June meeting , we passed a subdivision and it was �,I ' age I! ll 8 ,/ 20 ,! 92 11I3 - Gleason Dept . Pl. an. n:,in. g P0 'PMAN ( con. t; d ) a: 1. 1. legal. as soon as lie broi;ight the subdivision plat in. . What the problem has been. is Mr . Jones wants to build a liol,tse there . Ile can ' t build a house until. II sign the plat; that Roger brings in. . On. the cornier lot next; to his 4tYi ]. of- , is an. ol. d school and the sIu - - e - � .� i,. rveyol_ .� have n. ot; ]. ocatcd t; he own. el. . � of that school. . Phey don. ' t have anything from the County as to ;rhere t he exact; footage they ' ve got . So , the surveyor •Wil. l. not do a complete survey until. he can. put; his Stamp on. and Until. lie can r" y :D , are n. f find out. for sure hoer much room t .lc_ _j :Jupposed to have from that school. . So , that ' s Yield up the wliol. e subdivision. . So , what; I suggested to Roger 1S , ;- e coul. d approve It; , sign. if, as a. 3 l. ot; subdivision. and make the 4tli lot l: egal, when. lie comes in. with a final. legal. :3urvey . CHATTER 'I' OP1 i' In. Other words , forget. aboult; the 4t; h lot which is C103. P_ St, tO t; tlE3 sCliool. ? TOTMAN : Yes . CIINCTER 'POPd l� Why can ' t. the surveyor pin. poin. t; from the other end ? GLEASON lie doesn ' t know the exact dimension of the school. lot . ( Referring to map ) TOTMAPI : If it; would be agreeable to the Board , what I woul. d Like to have the minutes show is that; because of the 11 problem with the survey , having oitr approval. stands i{rlien lie can. produce the compl. ete survey with the 4th lot . The 4th lot wil. l. be an, automatic approval as soon. as Page 12 8 / 20 / 92 11B.- Gleason Dept; . P1. an. n. in. g TOTMAN : ( ccdn. t ' d ) lie brin. gs in, the proper survey . RANKIN : I mot; ion to approve t; lie 3 logs , 4th lot . wil. l. be approved When. survey is brought. in. . CHATTERTON c Second it-. . A1. 1. in. favor /Mot; ion. passed TOTMAN If yoil remember some. time back , Roger came in and wan. t; ed to extend his mining permit; . We t. ol. d him sve will. have n. 0 problem with t; liat as long as it. met. wit; li t; he DEC approval. . rhey have no probl. eras With what, lie s got; . It; is cal. Ied a Mined - Land Reclamation. Program . What it; is raying is that; for t; Yle nature of What . he ' s doing , in. that certain activities are exempt. . A rained operat; ion from which a fewer t; han. 1 , 000 ton. s of materials are removed , for Sale , exchange_ , Or ouzel' use durin. G, a ° 12 mon. tli period • it ' s exe � � r _ mpt; from t; Yie mining opE, l. at; ion. .� . ; So , as long as lie can. keep it within t; his , t; lien we can. I. egal. l. y say , OK go aliead wit; li t; his . CHATTEIZ 'rOPd : I make Uie, motion. t. o pass t; lie exf.? mpt; act. ivit; ies in. the Mined - Lan. d Reclamation. Program , i hicli in. clude I mining operations from which a fewer tlian. 1 , 000 tons of mineral. S are removed for sale , exchange , or ot; lier use during a 12 mont. li Period . CA?? EY : Second it . A1. 1. in favorMotion. passed TOTNIAN Has everybody looked Over this Lye appl. ication. ? ( Referrin. g to map , giving directions , e. t. c ) i page 13 8 ,T20 / 92 PB - Gleason. Dept; : Planning Nye 'PO 'PMAN Carlton. Nye . RANKIN : Whet is the problem ? Does he own. al. ]. this otlier land ? PO 'PM.; DT The exl� l. anation. is on. tn. e back of t; lle sheet; . I lead if CTIAI E' a con.vel' .: at; ion with his att. orn. ey . It; l : really t. lie lot. that is remain. in. g . CARE;Y : Where does the roadway come from on t; lie back property ? PO 'PMAIJ IHol. drich owns it. . When the other tiro lots were . sold , . tecrin. ically , he should have gone in. anal had a subdivision if lidon. e then. . What; alley did when. t. liey sold those two was t; liey wen. l. and chan. ged all. the tax numbers . Tax nl;tmbers have been. t. 11ere all. along . They had 260 ft. - road frontage , we only- have 200 . Ile ':-.. as 4 . 2 acres of l. an. d . There is no way we can turn. it down because t; he book says it; i ,3 Legal. . CHAT 'PERT0P1 : It is the 3rd sale of I- hat parcel. ? PO `PMANze Yes . That; ' s rigiit . Flis, ai. t orney wan. t. s to make , sure if lie bought; that property t; hat he woul. d _:. ' t; have any t. routble getting a building permit . GEORGE VAPISL, YKE read t; he Short Environ. men. tal. Assessment u Form . STIORT EPl`T1IR0 DIME N'T' AL, ASSESSMEPI'P FORM Part; I was filled 01"It; by own. el' Part; II reviewed by Boards A . Action. Exceed any Type 1 theshold NO D Will. action. recieve coordinated review NO C . Could action re :: ult; in. ANY adverse effect; s CI - C7 NO Page 14 8 / 20 / 92 PB - Gleason '; Pdye Planning Dept . Short Assessment Form cont ' d . . . . . . . Cl - No , only as rebated to one family residences . C2 - No C3 - Nothing known at present C4 - No C5 - No C6 - No C7 - No D . Is there any controversy related to potential adverse environmental impacts ? NO , Part III Determination of Significance ,i ' The Board determined based upon the information and ; analysis of Part I and Part II and any supporting documentation , that the proposed action WILL NOT result in any significant adverse environmental impacts . ' iVERL RANKIN made motion that they forego hearing and approve the minor subdivision proposed by Carlton PJye , Tax Map No . 28 - 1 - 4 . 2 . " GEORGE VAN SLYKE second the motion . VOTES All in favor Motion passed VERL RANKIN moved to adjourn the meeting . GEORGE VAN SLYKE + second the motion . `TOTE c All in favor Motion passed 11 I , SANDRA D . DILLON , DO CERTIFY that on Thursday , August 20 , 1992 , at 8 : 00 PM , did take the minutes of said meeting and the fore goin g is a true and accurate copy of said meeting to the best f o my ability . SANDPA D. DILLON. Notary Pubko %ateuf New Yolk No. 4847009, CaY Sa ny Term Expirgs� Q November 30, J•:1.:1-! i