HomeMy WebLinkAbout10-28 2025 Town board Public Hearings Budget and Fire & Ambulance contracts 2026TOWN OF GROTON - PUBLIC HEARINGS FOR 2026 FISCAL BUDGET,
GROTON FIRE & AMBULANCE CONTRACTS
MEETING MINUTES OF THE TOWN BOARD
TUESDAY, OCTOBER 28, 2025, AT 7:30 PM
Town Officers Present: Town Officers Absent: Also Present:
Donald F. Scheffler, Supervisor Don Armstrong, Attorney D. Durrett, Ithaca Times
Crystal Young, Councilperson W. Rick Fritz, Code Official L. Shurtleff, County Legislature
Sheldon C. Clark, Councilperson D. Carey, AG Advisor
Richard Gamel, Councilperson
Brian Klumpp, Councilperson
E. Moody, ZBA Chair
Robin Cargian, Town Clerk
Julie Graham, Bookkeeper
Ellard Keister, Highway Supt.
Mack Rankin, Deputy Highway
The meeting was called into session at 7:30 PM, and the legal notice for the Preliminary 2026 Fiscal
Budget printed in the Ithaca Journal was read by Clerk Cargian, who added that no comments were
received by mail or email. A motion to open the public hearing for the 2026 Preliminary Town Budget
was made by Councilperson Klumpp, seconded by Councilperson Gamel.
Ayes – Clark, Young, Klumpp, Gamel, Scheffler Motion Passed
Nays -
Supervisor Scheffler summarized the overall budget, which would be $155,000 over last year due to
fixed cost increases and salary support. Salary increas es have been minimal for several years, creating
a significant gap, making it difficult to attract and keep employees. He commended the staff for the
hard work they do. The board has made cuts where it could, including a significant equipment cut. The
local law overriding the tax cap had not been received by the Department of State, so there would not
be a vote on the budget that evening. The amount would be an increase of 8.26% or 5.38% over the
calculated tax cap. The floor was opened for comments.
No one wished to speak. Councilperson Klumpp made a motion to close the public hearing on the 2026
Preliminary Town Budget, seconded by Councilperson Young.
Ayes – Clark, Young, Klumpp, Gamel, Scheffler Motion Passed
Nays -
2026 Fire and Ambulance Agreements
A motion to open the Public Hearings for the 2026 Fire and Ambulance Contracts was made by
Councilperson Gamel, seconded by Councilperson Clark, and the floor was open for comments.
Board of Wardens Member, Groton Fire Department, Lee Shurtleff: I appreciate you doing the
two together. I'm Lee Shurtleff, a member of the Board of Wardens to the Groton Fire Department.
With the two contracts together, they support the efforts of one organization, and I wanted to bring you
something a little more expansive this year, so that you've got it to read, and it follows what I've got
here to show you the overall picture where the two contracts fold together within it. Starting with the
proposed budget for 2026, this would be the total budget for the Fire Department all aspects of it.
Expenses are at $947,000. Now these numbers show a fairly large change from previous years
Town Board Minutes & Public Hearings Page 2 October 28, 2025
because we have incorporated into the ambulance billing revenues that have materialized over the last
two years. I've highlighted several of the major categories to try to break it down. Notes and bonds, for
instance, are payments on equipment and reserves set aside for apparatus, $195,000. Protective
equipment, that's the safety gear we equip
firefighters with. If we put somebody into turnout
coats and pants, it's about $2,300 for one set. We
add in gloves, helmets, boots, everything down
the line, are grouped together $29,000. Building
and equipment maintenance includes our
contributions back to the village for utilities as
well as maintenance of the building and of all
equipment including apparatus. EMS is the big
one $547,000 plus $50,000; that's in the notes
and bonds for ambulance replacement on a yearly
basis So the true cost of your ambulance service
is just a touch under $600,000. And I'll give you
some details on it a little further. Fire, police,
$1,000. Administration and insurance. That
includes $60,000 for liability, workers'
compensation, vehicles. The village underwrites
the building insurance. Events and community
contributions, $25,000 which is about consistent
each year and is offset by donations from non-
contractual revenue. How do we fund the projects
with a $947,000 budget? We have four contracts
that are supported by the Town and Village of
Groton. Town fire, Town ambulance, Village
fire, Village ambulance. The four of them together under the proposed budget would be $671,000. This
is an increase to each one of $4,500 proposed to the Town and to the Village, about a 2 1/2% increase,
plus or minus, across the four lines. We tried to keep it within a reasonable number to alleviate some of
the tax levy burden that Don explained in his previous summary. This year, we also...
Councilperson Gamel: Lee, can I stop you right there? Just curious, Town Fire, Town Ambulance
versus Village Fire, Village Ambulance, just curious what the discrepancy is there?
Board of Wardens Member, Groton Fire Department, Lee Shurtleff: Well, basically because the
Village is supplementing several different lines within their budget as well. So, for instance, some of
the insurance costs, some of the building costs, underwriting the bond for the new facilities, that's in
addition to what they allot the fire department for the fire contract. We also, with the ambulance, see it
reflected that there are reimbursements back to the Village for some of the employee expenses and
shared positions that we have over there. Other incomes of $26,000, for instance, are 2% of every fire
insurance policy that is sold to an insurance company headquartered outside of New York State. If
you're in Delaware and you sell a fire insurance policy in New York, you pay a 2% fee that goes back
to help fund your local departments. That creates about $10,000 a year, which is put toward member
goodwill. That's one example. We also take in some donations from the ambulance and fire side, as
well as about $15,000 in fundraising that we attempt to do every year. EMS cost recovery. When I
spoke to you last year, we were just getting off the ground with billing to insurance services for
ambulance transports. I think last year I projected to you that we would probably see a net of around
$175,000 a year. Well, based on 24 months in, with escalating amounts is Medicaid,
Groton Fire Department Proposed
Budget Calendar year 2026
Expenses:
Notes & Bonds $195,000
Protective Equipment $29,000
Building & Equipment Maintenance $50,000
EMS Supplies & Support $497,000
Cost Recovery Administration $50,000
Fire Police $1,000
Admin Total $100,000
Events/Community $23,000
Misc/Fund Raiser $2,000
Total $947,000
Revenue:
Town Fire $167,000
Town Ambulance $188,000
Village Fire $157,000
Village Ambulance $159,000
Total Contracts $671,000
Town Board Minutes & Public Hearings Page 3 October 28, 2025
Medicare and the private insurers have come on board, that number has actually turned out to be about
$200,000. The actual billing revenue is in the neighborhood of $250,000 over two year’s time
annually. We're taking out of that reimbursements and administrative costs for the billing companies to
handle it of about $50,000, 20% of that is part of the process in having it managed through those that
are in the billing and cost recovery services.
What the fire service has done for the first year
and a half to two years, is to build a reserve
looking to see where we would appropriate it.
There was a provision in the New York State law
that prohibited the Fire Department Ambulance
Service from being able to assess fees for service.
It was finally changed in 2022, which allowed
fire departments to begin to be able to bill for
ambulance service. Dryden stepped out before
that and formed a separate corporation.
Trumansburg took their ambulance out of the fire
department and created a village department separately. There were a lot of different reasons as to why
the structure remained as it did, but since this has been changed, we've been able to establish ourselves
and to receive reimbursements from Medicaid, Medicare, Excellus, private carriers, as well as auto
insurers. That has helped us to alleviate the increased expenses. Now, the issue with that cost recovery
legislation that was passed in 2022 was that it was sunsetting at the end of 2025. And until April of this
year, we did not know if that billing would be allowed to continue. The Legislature, through the State
Budget, extended the ability to the Departments to continue on a five-year basis. We now have through
2030 before the legislature returns to that sunset clause and determines whether they're going to make
it permanent. So we're always under the threat that we may lose the billing capability and either have
to cut back service or shift it toward the taxpayers. My hope is, it's like anything else that the State sets
a sunset on such as the county sales tax, when it comes up for renewal, they're magnanimously
granting you that additional year. It doesn't cost anybody in Albany anything and it helps the local
government. Let's hope that continues on. for at least the next five years, six years, including 2026. We
have built it into the budget, and we're going to reflect that. What it does now is it puts us into a
position where we're going to appropriate a fund balance at the end of each budget year, just the same
as the Town and the Village, and the County. We are appropriating $200,000 from that fund balance to
roll into next year. And you can anticipate that the number will be consistent, or it will probably
increase over time, depending on what they do with Medicaid and Medicare. That's kind of a joke.
They haven't increased Medicaid rates since anybody can remember. An average Medicaid ambulance
reimbursement starts at a base of about $160. If you consider 80% of your nursing homes over here are
Medicaid-funded patients, and for every slip and fall or heart problem that we transport from the
nursing home, we see a base of $160. The actual cost of service is somewhere close to $1,000 for that
call. You are making up for that with local property tax dollars. A little higher rate for Medicare,
private insurers, and donations. Major expenses under EMS, $597,000 total. $50,000, I'm going to
come back to that for the ambulance replacement on an annual basis. It used to be $25,000. $547,000
operating costs include salaries for paramedics and advanced life support personnel of $430,000. This
number two years ago was $300,000. Last year it exceeded $400,000. This year it'll probably be in the
four and a quarter range with the reason being hourly paramedic rates have increased to an average of
between $25 and $30 per hour. The County started a rapid emergency medical first response team to
supplement the rescue squads in the county. They hired them on as county employees. They rated them
as basic EMTs, paying them the same amount as a basic as what our paramedics are getting at an
average level of $27. The county is having this discussion about whether they should move to
advanced life support. If they did that, they told me today at a public safety meeting, that
Other Income:
Interest $4,000
Ambulance Donations $2,000
Fire Donation $1,000
Foreign Fire $9,000
Fund Raiser $1,000
Summer Camp $1,000
Misc $1,000
Cost Recovery -Appropriated Fund
Balance $250,000
Total Incomes $947,000
Town Board Minutes & Public Hearings Page 4 October 28, 2025
they'd be looking at a starting pay of about $33 an hour for a paramedic. As I was saying, there's
where the county is costing more to employ similar people. But the problem is there are so few
paramedics going through the courses and there are so many that are aging out in the system that the
competition for a job opening is immense. We had a vacancy last year when one of our people left to
go to work for the county, which took us almost a year to find a paramedic that was willing to take the
rate of pay that we had here versus some of the others. We were backfilling that position with overtime
for months, which helped to drive that number
up. The daytime driver is a shared position with
the Village of Groton. The recreation director
gives part of her day to drive the ambulance
during those hours in the morning when we don't
have volunteers available to do so. We are also
looking to hire somebody part-time to
supplement the afternoons when that individual's
on vacation. We reimburse the Village for a
portion of that salary and we're reserving a debt
in case we do have to hire a part-time driver to
backfill. Billing administration, that's the $50,000
for, I can't think of the name of the company that does our work, but they're the primary one in New
York State. Key parts of vital equipment that we have are vehicle defibrillators and heart monitors
carried on both rigs. You buy two of them for $60,000 or lease them for $10,000 a year then they're
updated or replaced, and you roll into a new lease of $10,000. We are probably under budgeted on
vehicle maintenance at $10,000 a year to keep the wheels, brakes and the mechanics happy. You know,
Don, how that goes. You hit a deer, and the $1,000 deductible is out the window or out the front hood,
usually. But these main areas are about $526,000 of the $547,000 or $597,000. Then in addition to
that, you've got two dozen small line items. Oxygen for instance costs us three to four thousand dollars
a year. Narcotics probably cost us five or six thousand dollars a year. Supplies such as band-aids for
the rigs are a couple thousand dollars a year. So that's the flexibility that we have in our budget is that
you've got a few line items that you can move stuff back and forth and when this vehicle maintenance
approaches fifteen thousand, we cut back in some of those other areas. From the fire standpoint, major
expenses, the stuff before we ever roll out the door is about $300,000. $350,000 for apparatus
replacement. We’ve slowly been moving it up to about $85,000 a year. You've got four vehicles that
we have in addition to the two ambulances, two engines, one tanker, and one light-duty rescue truck.
We used to have a fleet of six fire trucks and two ambulances. We've condensed that over the last 10 to
15 years. We no longer run a ladder truck. We no longer run two tankers. We combined to have one
with a larger capacity. The big expense is in all of this is your engines. You must maintain a flow of
2,000 gallons per minute for insurance purposes, which takes two engines putting out 1,000 to 1,500
gallons per minute under the Insurance Services Organization rules. ISO rating number is five for the
Village. I think we rank at a number nine for the town. For commercial operations, if there's any
movement and you don't meet the criteria, including up-to-date engines and a certain pumping
capacity, your insurance rates would go right through the roof. A replacement engine, at a minimum, is
now $750,000. We've got neighbors who are buying them for $900,000 to a million dollars. Genoa
bought one a few years ago that was right around $800,000. We're trying to keep it at about that level.
But when you add together the four vehicles that we've got, it's about $2 million in replacement costs
divided by a 20-year replacement plan. We really should have a figure of $100,000 a year here. We're
not there yet, but if we can incrementally see increases in the contract over a few years, we'll get to a
point where that replacement plan can be practical. Self-contained breathing apparatus, these are the air
tanks that everybody wears. We replaced 15 units two years ago that will equip all of our interior
Major Expenses- EMS
EMS Operating $547,000
Ambulance Replacement $50,000
Major Categories
Salary- ALS $430,000
Day Driver (Rec Directory Part Time) $26,000
Billing Admin (Ambulance Cost Recovery) $50,000
Defib/Monitor $10,000
Vehicle Maintenance $10,000
Total $526,000
Town Board Minutes & Public Hearings Page 5 October 28, 2025
certified personnel. It was a $125,000 project and we’re paying that off at $ 25,000 a year. When we
get to the end of that, we’ll have five years where
we can buy hose and ladders and whatever other
large piece of equipment might be out there. But
eventually, we're going to end up into another
SCBA replacement to stay compliant with the
National Fire Protection Association. I don't want
to call them regulations, but there are
recommendations that OSHA, the Public
Employee Safety and Health, enforce as a
standard that you need to keep within a certain
number of years. Insurances, $55,000. We spend
about $30,000 for liability and auto and other
property and about 25,000 for workers'
compensation. That's about average for a
municipality of the size that includes our
population, 5,000 between the Town and the
Village. The other thousands over in the McLean
area, which falls in their district. Truck
maintenance, $11,500. We have some years, we
might hit 25 or 30, but by keeping the trucks up
to date, that maintenance number can stay
reasonable. You have ambulance at $10,000.
Councilperson Gamel: What repairs are costing you $10,000 a year for maintenance?
Lee Shurtleff: Engine rebuilds, periodically transmissions. They're running all the time. We have got
one rig that's approaching 100,000 miles, and the electronics within the rig are crazy. They are getting
serviced, well, multiple times a year because of the number of miles that are going on, as well as you
do get into body repairs. In the course of the eight years that you hold it, you'll go in and do some kind
of painting and adjustment kind of work. They operate at all times of year, heat, cold, and they run at a
pretty good speed with a lot of weight on it, so they're expensive to maintain. Building maintenance
would be the utilities and custodial part at the new facility, $29,000. We work with estimates to
determine the building number, but it's an all-electric building, and the electric rates, even in the
Village, are going a little crazy on us. We are also still maintaining the old back station until we can
get rid of it as we continue to thin out what's left of the equipment there. We offset the $350,000 fire
expense with the fire contracts that total $324,000 plus the additional income of $26,000. Some things
to think about that I showed you last year, and I touched on it a minute ago, is that the last ambulance
we bought in 2021 was $159,000. We have ordered the next ambulance and have been waiting two
years for it to be produced, no different than some of the trucks that you're probably buying. The
amount of time it takes to manufacture is significantly delayed. The basic ambulance without radios,
stretchers, or the lifting equipment that's been incorporated in it, is $209,000. They would not
guarantee that the chassis price would not go up, so in two years' time, from 2021 or three years’ time
to 2024, when we ordered this, the price of a basic ambulance went from $159,000 to $209,000. We
locked it in so that it wouldn't go up. This means that if we are to resume a rotation of buying one
ambulance every four years and using one for eight years, we need to be setting aside $50,000 a year,
where we traditionally were doing $25,000 plus donations. We will apply some of those donations to
the difference between the $210,000 and the $270,000 in order to make that purchase work this year.
But moving ahead, to try to stay on that schedule, we've got to increase that replacement cost. Looking
Fire Organization Funding
Fire Organizational Funding $350,000
Major Categories Expenses
Apparatus Replacement $85,000
SCBA Replacement $25,000
Insurance $55,000
Truck Maintenance $11,500
Fuel $15,000
Building Expenses $29,000
Protective Equipment $29,000
Total $249,000
Fire/Organization
Expenses $350,000
Fire Contracts $324,000
Other Income $26,000
Total $350,000
Town Board Minutes & Public Hearings Page 6 October 28, 2025
at that maintenance number, part of the problem is we've tried to keep those ambulances for 10 years
instead of eight years, and that is where they start to break down and have problems. So that's one
issue. Another problem, moving ahead, is that the two engines that we've got-- and again, these years
are slightly off. I think they really should be 2006 and 2016. But the second engine is a 2016. It was
bought as a demo unit in 2018. We got a good deal on it, $300,000, $320,000. The one that was
manufactured in 2007, 2008 cost us $405,000. The estimated replacement now is &$750,000 for a no
frills vehicle, which means that we have got to
continually bump up the apparatus contribution
so that it either funds it or can fund borrowing
and bonding it over a period of time. I talked
about the sunset. This is the one caution that I got
out there about the ambulance budget moving
ahead as I had mentioned to you the fact that we
were looking at $175,000. We're hoping to be
able to maintain $200,000 in ambulance recovery
money to help fund this budget moving forward.
So those are the highlights. There are 78 different
line items that our fire department board has,
which includes fire police equipment that's $250,
and fire police vests, maybe $250. We don't put
all of this into what we present to you, but what
we do is pick out the top 14 to highlight, and then
we've put together the other 14 to 28 of the 72
that really capture over 90% of the expenditures.
Our Fire Chief has a discretionary amount to
work with of about $92,000 out of $947,000. So,
less than 10% is not already allocated in the first part of the year when he goes into working with it. So
that's where we're at. I just want to mention your fire contract. I notice in here, it's 73 cents per
thousand. When I was Chief 30 years ago, and I came and made these budget presentations, my
advisor was a guy named Bob Walpole. He had been Chief and worked on the budgets for decades
himself. Bob always told us our goal should be to keep the fire tax rate between 95 and 99 cents. Don't
ever break a dollar, but don't ever let it go below 95 cents. Keep it there so that you can build with the
times. Well, we've allowed it to decline to 73 cents. You know, the increase in the tax base did help
with that. But if you were to do a comparison with just about any other department in Tompkins
County, you'd find that 73 cents per thousand is probably the lowest or close to the lowest fire tax rate
you're going to find. Dryden is in excess, I think now, of $1.20 per thousand. Lansing is somewhere in
the dollar range. Danby and McLean districts are somewhere in the $2 per thousand range. I think
McLean's is $1.93 if I was reading the paper correctly. You know, we've been blessed that we're able
to maintain the contracts between the Town and the Village, and the Ambulance does add quite a bit to
it. I think it is probably the most reasonable fire tax rate you're going to find. And the other thing is, we
have consolidated the equipment in order to make all these things work together. So that's the
presentation.
Councilperson Gamel and Representative Shurtleff briefly debated the new building’s financing,
current budget constraints for all governments and agencies involved in the contracts, and the necessity
to maintain expected levels of service. It was suggested that the Town Board could speak with the
Village Board if they have further concerns. The point conveyed was that of budgetary stress felt by
all. Clerk Cargian asked if there were any grants available to the department, and if the Town were to
help, what needs the department might have? Representative Shurtleff agreed they are in a better
Fire Organization Funding
Fire Organizational Funding $350,000
Major Categories Expenses
Apparatus Replacement $85,000
SCBA Replacement $25,000
Insurance $55,000
Truck Maintenance $11,500
Fuel $15,000
Building Expenses $29,000
Protective Equipment $29,000
Total $249,000
Fire/Organization
Expenses $350,000
Fire Contracts $324,000
Other Income $26,000
Total $350,000
Town Board Minutes & Public Hearings Page 7 October 28, 2025
position to receive a grant than in past years, and the greatest need would be for future truck
replacements. Clerk Cargian also asked if he was aware of the outcome of the legislation aimed at
removing fire/ambulance costs from the tax cap count.
Board of Wardens, Groton Fire Department, Lee Shurtleff: There have been several pieces of
legislation that would exempt, and one in particular with EMS that would incentivize municipalities to
take on a stronger role. EMS and emergency medical services workers are not considered, under the
law, as essential employees, but we know they are; somebody has to respond. Fire and Police are
essential. And they have actually had legislation proposed that would allow counties to take a stronger
role in EMS, but they're hesitant to move forward with incorporating it into the county tax levies. I
questioned that at a meeting today, just because it would add so much to the tax levy that you would
exceed that cap. The potential of being able to exempt that from the tax cap is part of what they're
considering in Albany to entice local governments to fund it more strongly than they have.
With everyone having been heard, a motion to close the public hearing was made by Councilperson
Gamel, seconded by Councilperson Clark.
Ayes – Clark, Young, Klumpp, Gamel, Scheffler Motion Passed
Nays -
No one wished to speak during the privilege of the floor.
There being no further business, Councilperson Gamel moved to adjourn, seconded by Councilperson
Young, at 8:12 PM, Unanimous.
Robin Cargian, RMC
Groton Town Clerk