HomeMy WebLinkAbout1988-11-17 TOWN Or (43RO •TCA11
f•'LA1%.1N1NG NOAI�1)
hlCJV1 C'1E�[ F % 1. 7e :ltP Rq c� " ( s ( '} F' > 11 .
BOARD PUBLIC PRESEN "r
*:• Georoe Totman . Chairman Gar v Wood . Lain i nca En or- rement
* Ce c-: i. I Twiacs (74: fie:: er
Ver 1. l? ank: i. n Mr . U, Mrs . Iiendr i. >; . '.� ovf }C ( �ca1
* M(-)nic: a C, a:trev Hill Iwod .
I .1i I I Casc ) I A14. a, Daniel Schaefer . Emoi, re
�* Dav :i cl C:' h) at. t. ert:. on
( * present )
G . TOTMAN o}oened the Board mecyti n (a t:} ,✓ i. ntrodt_tc: i n (a the r') ew frsember
of they Board .. David C' hatt. erton . M :i nt..ttes.=.s of the OC 't:. ot:ter . :1 988
meeti n (a were r_ts'- esented and aooroved can enoti, on o + B . CASOLAI:�; A .
seconded 1-} v M . CAREY .
GARY HENDRIX OF 771 SOVOCOOL HILL RD . . TOWN OF GROTON . TAX MAP
..�ryry.. _._ ..... I.... __ . . _ _... ._.. .J... _... ._ ..... _.. ..._ ..._ .,_ ..._ ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... _.. _.,. _. ..... ._.. ..." _... ._.. ._. ..._ ...,. .__ ..... ...., ..... __ ..._ _ "._ . _ ._ ._. .,... .... _ .__ _.. ..... ._ ._.. ..... __ __ .._. .._ ..._ ._ .,... _, _ ..._ __
N . ,?2 •� 1 - 14 . 1 .
G . HENDRIXn I made; a m :i <.m. t:. atk: e when I t::} t-t 't:. ari addition (an my
c".1i ari:a (a (=.d . .I. l+lad: told as Iona as it t was not over a 1. 00 L*icquarfi? f ee_' 't
I did not need a bt..ti I di nea caerf() i t . 1. mi, sC' a .1, c: i.t :l. aced and i. t is over..
2C} t1 F.-i. at..tar- e f (:} cIt`. . I did mal : ea cln ( ! rt" ( } r ar') d VJr..) ` 4Je::}i"i ( Ie' t"' a. nft 1N1'aat 1-
h; ad to do to get. i. t -. trai (aht:. ened ot_tt .
G . TOTMAN : Fr om t' tiat'. fir" <._. '1:. (::) f all 'vor_t sh} (at.tl d
have ar.) p I i ed f or a b1-0. 1 cl i ri (::t perm :i t . YOU wot-t :1. d either be
. P.
ac: Cecsted (.:sr- reier_. ted . If 'the bt_tildi. nci nc- rmit, im reiec: ted for-
` / i ) r" :i r' er_tc (anus Vc: LA have the (-.) ot, a. of") f,:} f at::ti:a1 vi nca •F or- a ` i' .ir i ar} f:.' e .
.1 he purpose VC:it.,t totere here bef orG.' the Pl a. 1 ini ng
Sc3ar (A befc} r' (. ? MJats f or' t, hie purpose c:) f a Site Pl ari RP. Vi eNJ Etfld the
PI anni no Board could not f i nd arivt. hii nct i. n the C] r- di. nance inhere
thew C0U1. d <ai :l. I ow t. hat tvr} e of c) r.} er <::) ti on on that. raart. i C. c. I A Ca :i ec:: e
of 1. arad . 'Theo sent yot..t the r' e �=.:.o :it_i 't-. ion with a Cor} V of the F'.( oard
minutes exc} 1a.iinir'} ea -to vot_( why you c: ot_tici not do that .
If you dial apply for fa bt..tildinca permit from Mr .
Wood and did get. a. 1-} er' n) i. t for bi.ti l di rio the ciarage w did vcm.t have
the intent of havi n (a 'the bt..tsa. ne +:. s anvV14cl v after you were tt..trned
down i . .I. caf_( ei-:s s that. was the (auest i o t ' '
G . HENDRI X o I E nev4 I COt..tl d not have i. t as a busi. ne ! ea. . I was
a r e. a (I -%%/ tc) I d t. hat. . 1 dory ' t. Undersltarid why I Cc) _t :l d not cset a
var- i. anc._ e for it . I still do}n ' t. 1•enow why 1: feel I have plenty
of land for what I viant to do . J.' don ' t 1•:: nc) vj how mulch) land i <.ms
reot..ti red ? There i s e.} noct (:ah room for the, bi.ti. l di nci and there is
enf,:} (..toh room for the par- 1•=: i, n (a . I don ' t. see 1-) ow much Inore room :l
trJe:+ t_tld need or- 4Jhv I viot..tld need morn-., room .
B . CASOLARA : I did not aet a conv of the :letter the Board f= ent.
t. c:.l Mr . Hendrix. ,
G . TOTMAN : : read the letter sent. to Mr . Hendrix )
" Att. acl-led is a coov caf the mi nt..ttes`} of the Pl. anni. nc.1 Board of Jul. v
2 1 . 1. 988a YOUr reat..te +wst -for a body repair- shop has been denied by
•t•. hr•? Plann :ing'i Eioard . I •f you have anv further gt..te =_stior•le4 pl at-.-> e:?
contaCt US . "
l.. he difference of wha •t t3ary i <•--. tal k: i na abot..tt. and 1:
did the best that I know how to explain it to him the di. fferenc: c-a
between cae •t:. •t:. i, na a vari anc: e from the r• e iect. i on of aet. •t:. i ric:a a
bt-t :oIdi. nca permit from the bui3. dinct :inspector and aet. t. inci a
valri tncc? from the decision of the Plann :ino ]"ward . 1: f t:. he
b u i :l di na i ns�nector determines he can't :i s_• SUe a bt.ai. 1. di rla ner• mi t.
.for various reasoi; <.=... . the applicant can oo -t o the Zoning Board of
rip pea1. s for a variance . l::tt..tt. i f the applicant is.-.. turned down by
•t:. he ! ' :l a n n i nra Board on a Site l ' :l arl Review his only rec. c. ) urse is the
court. _, .
B . CASOLARA ". t .1e are deal i nci with two different:•. :issues Here .
I
G . TOTMAN : Yes . He still hs <::s4:s -the ont. :i. on oi: cio :i na to Mr . Wood
f car•• a building faer• mi •t:. to add on -to the caaracie ., Thy:? bt..ts J. nes c�_
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whi c. h was re i ect-. ed �.Af ter a Site P1. an I evi ewd by the Pl anni. nca
Board . did niot•.: allow the, business accord :i. nn to the r-•lrc.:lvi s i oncs clf
the Or- din Ear) cv . T' he Board cannot chanc3e the Ordinance . 'Tohc::?
Ordinance is there . the Town Board can cl-lanae the Ordinancen bUt
we have to traonk with the Ordinance as we have it . I know it is
hard to ac [: eot. "a t."sut . never• tl"1e 1. e !-Bs . it is what vie have tca work,
with . As far as the building is concerned you don ' t have to
Came tiac k: t. n the P l anni na Board t. o get. a bt_ti :I. di na oer• m :i t . you
.. .
-lave to cao to Mir• . Wood . Hasic.. al. Iv .. what you are talk: i. na about
glow is::. aett•. i. rla a L.) ui. Idinca permit for the const. rt..tct. i. on on thc.,
aaraae .
G . HENDRIX : I. wcn..tl d :I. i h:: e :i. t so that. 1: cc.) u .l. d eventui.xi l l v have it
as is recli =5t. ered Gtlntnr repair !:ihop i t.tst. f car the s ak.- e of
not h•lavirla > omebodv turn me in fc, r . . . . 1. would only be doir•la it
a+ ter work and on weekends . Aso 1. wc.) ul. drl ' t be cable• to clet:. an lot
clone anvwaay . But I don ' t want somebody tt..trni. na me in and aet. ti na
me in trouble in that r• esnect either .
G . TOTMAN : You mear•1 for f i x i na vour -friend ' s car '"'
G . HENDRIX : YE= af: t . and fear anvthir•la e :l. s=see ei •ther- „
G . TOTMAN : 1: k: rlow you have done i t. ,, but vot.tr• on l v s ci l t_tt. i on is
t. ca ctet your r•le -i. ah bor• -to sell vot..t a 1 i -ttl. e Flit trlclr F;a land there .
G . HENDRIX : 1•ie won ' t. . I already asked him .
Paqe 2
y ..
G . TOTMANe At this point I don ' t 4; now what, else to tel. l vot..t .
You can see Mr . Mood at.:) c) c.tt:, c tcert:. t. i. ng a bui ;l d i nu permit . The best
thing to do iiW to come in dLAte• ir: y the clay and get an alanlication ..
B . CASOLARA : In reference to Mr . Fiot..tst:. or•) . is i. t tin. get
al ease on t:•. h e strip of land "
G . HENDRI X b ' l: i-mssl.: ed him al:) nut t:. h) at and tie was, not i. nterest f.--ad
in t. hat. either .
B . CASOLARAa Did you eex ) lair) to him the si. tt..tat. i. on s :i. r•ic_ e t. he
Board ' s decisi. nr•) '
G . HENDRI X a I a wl:: ed hi. m before I crime down here and he just
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i =sn ' t i nteres:> ted .
MRS . HENDRIX : Mav I ask— a caue <.:st. :ic) n . was the big problem the
dr :i vewaVo?
G . TOT' MANO. No . not all of the problem . The problem was . in
the Town o-f Groton if vot_t bt_ty r:a piece of land and want to I•:) ut
anything on it the rules and re0LAI a t i ons. reqt_ti re a 200 f oot
front:. ac) e . The Parcels: that. were :i. n ex i <.:st. enc: e previous to this
Ordinance . which was massed in 1. 972 . with less thc-tt a '341C) _) •font
front aoe and t. htat t•iad homers on i. t or mots i l e homes or whiatever .. if
vot..t br.:at..tph •t one of those -that was already there you can keen, it
(3c) i no the wav 6t. hat it was bt..tt vout. c:: an t. c: hxarat ae i. t:. " s
r._ lasssi. f :ic . ati. on or-, build to i •t. .
MRS . HENDRI X ' ic) even i f we wanted to bt.t :i. I d a I ) nt_t4. e there we
G . TOTMAN : You 1--lave changed the trai. 1. er f r- (",)cn what was.
or i ci nal I v there_' . . . . .G( :HENDRIX !'y.Io .
G . TOTMAN : I tt•tc) t..tpl`) t. VC.)U Said vcat..t d :id .
G . HENDRIX . I was poinct to but I c: OLO cln ' t. afford to do tiot. h)
the c) arace and the trailer .
1.
Et . CASOLARAd Hovi oai. cIe i. s -the land ?
G . HENDR I X a It is 1. () 0 foot wide and 49C) foot. deep .
Pa CABOLARA » So the only nreclu s :ic)n to building a home there
wot..tl d be vot_t wot..tl d hravee) t. o on •t:. o the :lBA and get. a var• i ance ba =sed
on the fact that t. h i <W> is the size of the lot and will they accept
that since it t. is, 49C.) feet deep .
G . TOTMANe Ht_tt what he aoc) l. i ed for was a bt..tsri. nesss .
page _...
MRS . HENDRI X : What. I am s a v i na i si kh at in the mi r 'll VOLA sent
us :I: thought I read in there that when you were di srn..ts !:: . nr-i lit you
said somethi n a c-thOUt if we ever- wanted to out a house curl i. t wE
to 1. e.:l not taE_� able to do that either' .
G . WOOD : I believe -that ctaza also i, n the letter- I sent to
voc_c before lel bought the parcel . if 1: am not mi = tal•:: en . The lot
is under s :i. ed and if you wanted #: o do Any -thing wi. th i. t voc-t W 0 U I d
need a variance .
,B . CASOLARA : What. i r; the Heal. t. h De1'aar 't:. ment. ' s. re (.:lc_c :i rement . 1. 56)
fee #: ?
G . WOOD : Yes% . but t. hev will also respect the rare - ex i st i. nn
non - con + or- mil
G . TOTMAN : Or SCNTIE -� t. i. mesi if you don ' t have the 1. 50 fee 't:. . #:. hey,+
take into r: cans:> :i. der the 1. avout. of -the rest of the p arc: eel . For
e xiimple . his rjarcel. Class. a 4caea + foot: death anc:l they could cone-• . der
that fc:; r- sufficient drainage .
1. n t. Ill i s-i particular case . where v (-.iu at::) p 1. v fOr" a
be.csi. rieE S vc: u come in + or a Site Plan Review and the Site Pl. ara
Review comes to ttie F' :I. anni no Board . The Pl anni. no Board c i<.-tr t.
chanrae the E::1r_ dinance and allow some -thingcan a rion —conforming Icst•:.
-thatcpaasrl ' 't:. there hief :_sre .
Go HENDRIX : U: hat. do I have to do t. o trv . or- who do I have to
oo = eye to see a1:1C. ) LAt. c : hancairlci that )
G : TOTMAN : As 1: under- stand the law . once the muni ci Baal. i. tv
give '=s the 1'' 1. anninEa Boardi�1ut:. l-aoriety over i :i '� e' Plan Review as to
subdivisionsand this sort of thine the only reversal of their
deci s:0. on i ss -throuoh the '.=ic-coreme t::our• t . Where i •f the oni rica
of f i cer turns somebody down . the ZBA is the c._ Sur- t to appeal. t. o .
1" ho<_ et laws are set bv the State Of New Ycarl :: . I don ' t. k: n :_aw 41t10
e1. se to eel. 1. you to rao to . The F' :i anrai na Board t. c .cr- coed ✓ cau c.inwn
and vc-•a:..c can be mad at u ai but that wa = the only thi no we could do
with what we had to work: with ,
G . HENDRI X : I wa = Just wonder• :i no i f there was wome 't:. h :i. nca I
COLA Id do to chaa o= #:. i- e situation . I c:ior..Ct kriv:aw if :1 can afford
tcs do anvt: hi. nca further at this t i. me . i. f I can I might trel
Bo ° CASOLARA : TherE.•a is a section if the (3rdi nonce that rJoe!-i deal
wi. t. i'•i the appeals Car" ( aCf' Si � . perhar.ass you Can ask I..,C:al. 1e' t ? n el a cope✓
of it when you go in to app]. N.✓ fore your application .
•�• �• •� ? ieac:: t•. i. On �.4c:ac, e ;i'i •aF •�• �•
REVIEW OF REQUEST FOR MINING OPERATION LOCATED ON CLARK ST . EXT . .
_... ..... ..._ ..... ..... ..... ..._ ._, ..... ..... ..... ..... .... .._ .._ ...
TOWN OF GROTON . FROM CORTLAND PAVING . TAX MAP NO . 16 - 1 - 20 .
REPRESENTED BY EMPIRE SOILS INVESTIGATION „ INC . n
i �
G . TOTMAN ". At. the last t meet. i. rrca the Board met wi. thot..tt. me and I
V`eO ..Steal the Boar-- d 'Set Up a public hear- in (-.1 for- toniatit + or• the
mi ni na operation . Mainly because I had tcti k: cad to member• = Cif the
Town Board ar7c:l it war decided at that r.:) art :i cul. ar time to hold a
i of nt:. rtUb 1 i c hear- i nO between -the Town Boar- d and the f' l anni nca
1:oar• d is ec: <_tt.tse the "I' own Board elected to do the IBEEOR and to be
the lead acaci? ncv -for- the mining or.3erat:. ion and as, Long as we Loth
W (-k.t :i. d have to hold i:m..tbl. i. c heari nqs . we decided to do them at the
same t i me „ The Board agreed with that and then f of- it or five days
1 Gtt. er I wa <. i of orcn(ed try the T (:_t an t.A. er I:: thateel to wasi• rt ! st. ruct:. ed
not. to cal 1. the public hearing because the ..Gown Board was_. not.:
r• e} adv to hold -the ot_tl i1. i c.. t•tear- i n (3 . The Town f e :l. t. at that time
that they did not have enoucah information for the p) ecsl:rl. e to hold
a pt..tblic -•rear~ ir••Irt . To put it ve:rr• v blt..tntly . I felt irr•- itat:. e (J and
t..q.-3set , and I so st. at: ed . because my feelinCd3 and contention of a
i:.) ubI i. c heari no i s r-tppar• ent i v di f f (er• ent. than some r..1popI es , . A
pt..tbli. c hear• irtO i. !---i to get input from people and let them know what
is I-iar.� oeni. nO and <.:-omet. i me t: hev can have some input that the
Board has next_ thou. caht of themselves ., My -feeling is ,, in a came.
1 i. 1•:: e that. . as l orig as you I:: now what is happening . . . we have a
r- ep l y from the DEC' -they briefly looked at it . YOU can go throt..t (;,ih
arid , (.Jo all -the studies vcrt_t want to and sav we ;:•ire ready fnr• a
pt_tbi i. c- hear- inc and you f iol. d the pe. bl. i c hear- i. ng and get the i nl.) ut.
fr- otn the people . they might come t_tp with a IDUnch of things the
Boasr• d had not thOUOht of . mavbe some o •f them might be good and
mavbe some of them might be f ar..: ts> j then you have -to htar• t:. all
over anai. n . My contention was to h (:) ld the public hear• inc} U c'3et:.
the r::reopl �:r <._s i npUt. and then Vot..t can begi. n your- i ndepth studies .
B . CASOLARA : I think I missed -that: section in the Ordinance .
r_ an VOU show me wl e. r- e it =. av !> in the Or• di narice where the t_; t7ai rman
of the Board would determine whether the Board would hol. d a
nul::a :l i c : hear- :i. nc_s ' '
G . TOTMANOW I don ' t know what you mean .
B . CASOLARA : Yot..t said that you decider.:l with the 'T' owri . B (.) ar• d -to
hool. d ' a oublic hezir- ino .
G . TOTMAN : You decided at. -the last me (-t i n (:a to hold a joint
tot..( b :l. :i' c_: hei:yri. nn witt-i t• he I' citean Boar• (
B . CASOLARA : We decided to hold a prel. imi. nary meeting prior- to
a P) e.tb :lic_• hearing .
C . TWIGG . We decided to meet ear :l. tier . the public {-tearing was
ao i n (3 to 1-ze at. 8 ' C') 0 and we were go :i na to meet a l :i. -tt. :l e early . .1.
feel a little bit. like George doe !.. . a sat.ab1. i. r_ hearing is iu st to
let. -t1-ie Public air their opii. n :ions or- views os^ . . .
B . CASOLARAe Provide us with information .
C . TWIGGO Provi de us or thems.:,eIwes with informatiotn or,
t�,+ hat:. ever- and whether -t:. hat cYomes bei: or' c, or after- our meet':. intt with
them . I ' m not sure i 't mak: es% as big difference .
S . CASOLARA ". It:. wase> CAUr 4: Eae .l. i n a 't:. hiat. we waanted to have a
rare= l. :i. mi nary meet :i. n (-..s -to be more i of c-arrned .
M . CAREY : I aorer-..? . we -f el t we di d not h avc--� a11. t. t'ae
informati, on that we needed .
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G . TOTMAN : I understand that .
On (;7Ltc... s I ma. � t_tndc r" caocl when aoll were _ al. 4:: t nr.� :t. .
sc.-.? erns, as ' t:. hc:at..tc.;} h you said d that vcal..i had dec: i. ded with -the Town Board
to hold R ioirit oub1. ic hearinct .
G . TOTMANN What I said earlier- was . in tal. k: i. s"1 (3 to 't':. he 'Town
8oar (I prior -to ot..tr mee:ct. ir..lo that :it:. was 15t-iC'laest. ed we have the
oublic hear- ira (:as t: ooether rather' than hold separate pubIi. c
hear ncss . " f :i 't:. t:. l"se F' l arin i no Board meet. i no the moti (:an was made and
it was voted to ci a al ono with that: SUCJrles. t i Can . YOU are right . no
one Ftta4r. G-. r:tn i..ca =_: the ricaht t. o do that. .
Ivly 1-3 wit:. i. so we can cac) ahead and hol. d puib :L i. c.
hear" 1. nos arid meAV: e a 1 manner caf decisions an a matter" such as
t:. h :i. sq L:aLJt. as: l onn a <w:. tint=.+ c:at. I'ier clover- ni no body sits L:aac1.: ::arid waits
fC:tr" mC+ re i. oftir' SSacatl. (? 4a (:] 'f Gi•C..+ fn( ? 1 •`. a. r) tiu we have
riot: ora1. `a OUr'
t. i the tat..tt. , the dc;vel oe:aer" ' s t'. i. me riot, I':: nowi. no what. -thee •Tcmrs Board
ar..) i n ci t'o be doi. no with the SEt:iR 'T' hev mi clhit. tt..trn :i. t
down .
S . CASOLARA : 15 it rrav Understanding that we are going ng to be the
lead aoencv "?
G . TOTMANe Non the Towri Board is .
B . CASOLARA : 'Then what is our f unr_: t i on in this orocess "41
G . TOTMANn. Good ouest :i. on . Yot..t are uett: irita around 'to my
pr (-) b'.Lem . I"Iv fee1. in (a is . at this e:aalr' ticLilaur' Point , we are was -Lino
ol.ir t i me and the developer ' time f or•• us, to r*jet i nvo :l. ved by
carryl r1 (:1 (fin all. kind ! o4: dl S.C: LASS1. (7ri and decision:t. s1 Can rnak: i. n <-1 until 1 to+ Ci?
f i nd out whether the 'Town Board i s:> ck3oi. nq to pass the £+ EOR or not .
I feel i f this is aoi n (a to happen , then the ;=rEt? 1•=: should cac.:) t_ ca the
Town Board . t: hev Should mass i. t and cai ve it to t.Jsy and let L.ts do
the <.:-:� i t. e - plan review . i. f that is the wav it is (aoi no -to be .
B . CASOLARAe I ' r'n aa1. 1. in favor if the .Town Board wants to
prepare the EIS .
G . TOTMAN . Ri ctht':. . t:; ut my hacai nt :is . when volt have two bodies
wor I•:: :l. Ina on the <.:w +-ame or' o i e.,.1ct. i -t tr.% hiot..tl d be dare in con i L.tnct. i can with
each n other .
h-' aclte - 6
B . CASOLARAne It was my t..tnclerst and ino that. 'this Board . Pl. annina ., I
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would end up being the lead agency .
G . TOTMANn. No the Town Board sent a letter i. n and they want:.
-to be the I ead aC.3Fnt .
I
G . WOOD : Al I that letter !.--, aid waar:> the Town wanted to be,
i
lead iclenc �✓ . It did not ident. ifv which 1::? oiiurd in the... 'Town .
I
B . CASOLARAn. There is no reason was can ' t do i. t of i behalf of the
Towan Board .
G . UlOOD . Ac: tual. I V . i 't. 1 _. r.:} ui. 'tt_. t. t•tc. r_. (:) nt= ra . y I=ti 1 l. . t:? c. c: i_lu ..::e..
the SEO:R law c"•: <:vs t:. hat, before arty oove:' rni. C• o body makes a decision
they must_ conduct an environmental. review ., "!- I" e body that has -to
(i) el t; tra. a c:l e ( 1 s 1 o n J. n t. h i s (": E s (? :1. to.i v 0l 1 . t. t1 e 1-' a n t"i ]. I"'t ct l ( (:? -- rd .s t Y ( 71.1 (� C)
a site -- plan review . vol_i DEt % S on it with certain = tipula 'tlon582
et. c:: ,, So if the 'T' own Board tct•? oc:? ses to do the SE: OiF' review . then i. n
f ac 't: then are doing it on behalf of you because voi.t ' rep the �
(-jovEi? rn (nent <:1 .L acenC `✓ that has to ma { : tia the decision .
G . TOTMAN : I don ' t understand what you mean . they are the I
Iead agency . We 1"iave no power until thev are through and thev
tell. LAS r•iow) we can do the si -te -- plan review . They are the lead
agencv , but. t. hei? O: )rd :i nonce ' iaysi thial 't:. woe.? (J (::) the site- plan review ,.
which means mining . YOU can ' t have it both ways .
Et . CASOLARA : I think- what. Garv ' <_-i point is . the Town Board has
empowered t_is to do the <. i te '- :? Ian review . they can ' t do the site --
plan review .
G . TOTMAN : I ac} r• ee . What I am savi. ngi is . suppose one r::? ar •t of
t•. he mi.inicipaI i t v does the SEOR and tLArl'SS i 't:. down . In the
meant� i. me . the other" board d has done the site , an revi ew . YOU
have C ) f.) t 'twao sets ( ] '{ wdt'ie3F:'a. l. ss CtC� :4. 41C;t in C:? } ? }:7 (-i s :i t. fi? t:i :l rest i onr . It.
doesn ' t mat:: e sense. . What I am savi nta is . do the SEOR , ge st. it
done an (.] then turn it. over -to us and s'iav do the site "•- plan re `✓ iewa .
We are ready to go on this . bt_1t:. was can ' t. do a1"iv 't: hi. ng Unless vOu
t--: nowi that }:.) art. is cic? i r'ia to L)e passed on the envJ rc3nmt -? ntal. review .
C . TWIGG : In other waords . was have -to have a public hearing
before we (nal•.: e a decision (:)n tine site - n 1. an rev :i e. w ?
G . TOTMAN . Right "
C . TWIGG : Bt..it we don ' t: have 'tc? i-iave a r,:? ublic hearing before
thev approve t. t-sei r ends''
G . TOTMAN : We have to determine wahet. her we need ci pt_tbIi. c
hear• i. no or not: , A r.lubl i c hearing is to (;het.: i nt:? t..tt. -from -the r:3t..tb 1. i c
to heap us mat:: e a cieci. sion , If we 00 through all. -this and have a
Public hearing and the people come :i n and cruesti ons. are ast:: ed and
answered at. a pt..tb l i c hearing and we feel. satisfied ; the other"
part. of the int.. n i. c i }::? al i tv doeci tl...se SEOR review and they hol. d a
P a a e - 7
t•_7 Lot l.y1 :i. c: he : tr•• iria and the People come :in and t: he. v m :i. ctht take what
the peol.) le s a v i. n a different. aspect than tree do and denv :it.
bei c aLl1»se :it is no-t. envi r onmt4:? nt. a .l 1 v Sc:s:. ut d n then what have we been
doi rst�a al. I this time ? 'To me it does::. not make sense . It. i. s riot.
doi. nq the People it.Astice . I real .l. v believe we should be able -to
oca to ' the people and say✓ ': this is the wav it is going. to be :, and
h•lr_snest :ly . right now . 1. feel vie c �:tn ' t do ghat:, to the people the
wav this has trans►.} i. r• ed .
Be CASOLARA : So what: you are sEAvi. net is- we reed some direction
f rs.!m the 'Town Board .
G . TOTMAN : Yes . I t:. hin1-:: we need some directis.an from the Town
Board and I treo ►..11 d be in favor s:af -them saving they will do the
SEL1R . do it and if t. hev agree with the SEPR and it i t:s passed then
turn i t. over to us. for the site - plan review . But i. t doecx. IYta !•Ce j
more sense if you are raoi. nra to hold a pL► blic hearing -to have both
bod :i s-.tis there and h► ol d a Joint pub i c hear i. nc:t l: t i s I esc:
expens i. ve and i t. i s e si er- on the people and the developer . it
dc:aes >n t make sense for LAs to hot (.) :t d a t::eubl i c heari nra and then a
month later the 'Town Board h a1. di rlca a public hear i na for the same
thing .
M . CAREY : Does t1••ie 10*
own Board have to hold a public.. hearing
before or after thev do the SE (slR?
G . WOOD : The public hearing is a part of the SF.'"OR review .
G . TOTMAN : I thiink: it is s. omethino new for the Town Board .
tl--iev 1••iave riot got into E; l. ot of this. -vet arid befc:ire ►ree go too far
P.
we should + ind oLAt what direction we and the municipality✓ as a
whorl e are s;ioi rasa i tool . We ars .. goi na to see more of these thi nqs
COMP LAP a
BILL CASOLARA made the MOTION the Planning Board
s e e k c :lari 4: ic. at. ion from the 'Town Board on the process. . the
Procedure and the involvement of the Pl anni na Board and the "h'own
Gsoard i. n real. ,:it. ion t. o this EaEt:! GP; review and �:tnv futura= SEOR
reviewsuq CECIL TWIGG seconded the motion .
VOTE : ALL IN FAVOR
MOTION CARRIED
G . TOTMAN : Mr . Schaefer . did you understand there was to be a
p Lot blic. hearins:a t:. onJ. ght '?
D . SCHAEFERO. Yes.. n I did . I a (ri a caeotecI-) ni. c: al. engi. nec� r for.
Empi. re Soi. I ss and we prepared the appl i cat :i. or-t and rc h:aort_ = and a1. 1
the documents i: or- Corti. and Pav :i. ng . 'Tate first autesti on I want to
r� sk: is has this Board had a chance to review all. the documents
and what steps do 1'. have to take to stet a special use permit.
i S=: S Lot F.-? d ? I have been r- on + usci? d all along . I have never' received <:a.
list of what. I-} a %•s -to laer done „ arid after whatt:. you <.: . i-t :i d t: oni. gl-st. has
Page - 8
not conft_tsed rae anymore . evervthi. nca is vei•- v c:: l. e �ar- now on what:, hitas-•
been co :i. no on . I thot.. l-A th i i:" was cioi no to be some: th i. n (a that was
done all at. once #
G . TOTMAN : I..- et. fire ex, pl. ain a Little . thir:> man acid myself for I
two weeks before the :Last meeti ncc sat:. down and We di c= .: UsSed t. h i s- a i
Probably I led him astrav as much as any✓ body because I thought I
k: riew what I. we-.-is do :i nc,i . After I (:ii scL! sssed i. t. wi t:. h h.ri m I ta :L k: ed
with a re ,orei::, e nt: at. i. ve Of the Town Board and vie said since we need �
a public. hearing let ' s set :it t_tFae vie have t:. i. file t. cr i:studv :it all
Out and from that point:. on I saw no prob :lern Until aPPar- erZtly I
scrmebodv t. al h; ed to ss>cacnebodv and saa. d tl"serf? vial riot er.1c) ucll••i
i. n f o r.. nr a t i. o r-E .
D . SCHAEFEFtan The 1:1E (::: said the-:1v wanted more information and we I
di. sc: !_ ssed these thii ricis a mont. (-i eic:io and they thot_! ciht t. hev wanted
to :Let th, e-? Pl anni no board review it to see if they wanted more I
J. n -Frir- mat:. i On ,. The DEC said the intent of their le-ter wain% not. -to
oet these hearings l:aostooned ,• The Stc.! ff t: hev asked t_ts to do we
addressecl rand we had no Dr- ob :i. ern With that .
I filet with vCNA this Summer and discussed this . the
DEC was:. out. there and wal. Fred the site this sUmm ( ar . We are not i
t:. ryi. nca to hide anvt. hi. no , it took: a whi. 1. e to caet the report.
together .
B . CASOLARAe Is :it. vour Opinion vie can proceed vsit. h a sketch
r.A. an review con + eren (:: e . �
G . TOTMANo yei:a . as IOno ai-s he is here but we can ' t do
anvt:. h i no Until we I-. novi what:. the Town is cioi. ng to do .
D . SCHAEFER : Does the Town Board treed the additi. onaI
i of ctrrnat:. i on before then can n approve the SEC)R'?
I
G . WOOD : 'Thev can ' t. answer that . Darr , becaUse until they
1. ocah:: at the D0F' -that you submi tt. ed then can " t scope out anv
additional information they need „
D . SCHAEFER : I was cinder the i. mpressi on t. hev 1••iad gal read -•✓ I oOk: er_I
i
at J. to
G . WOOD : None Of: t-c =Es were at their-r- Board meet. i n (3 s0 Use (::Ic.:) 1'1 ' t
know .
i
G . TOTMAN : ..l.. h eNi 1-iave the same i. nformat. ion that we have. . I
G . WOOD : What. we are f aced with is a case of neat h a v i no a
c: Iear underst:. and inci of thie r:iroces.> s that hai-s to be conducted .
Someway . the 'T' o ►rin Board '. as lead acaencv < has to review the DAF
grid decide what•. 1-:: i nd of an action i, t i iss and de (.... i de whether- (-.)r• not
tl....tere is anv si ran i f i cant. environmental. i. ml-) ac: t and based on that:.
dec:: :i. de whether or riot:. th (. 1v are Oc ) irici to hold a tpulrli. c hearing .
Once then have oarnered that information ,. -than thev must decide
trihr ; at. lner car nott:. hrev have enough i rif ormat i on anr_I then dec i. de
lame - 9
I
whet. 1-ier or not . based can that information . v ( ) t-t have -to ptrov :ide an
Envi. ror•: mental. ;' Imoact:. Statement ..
G . TOTMANe It ' s not ra new I:ar' oce <._ s .. it been clone all over
the State .
'To b (rts_• t answer your quecStion. the Totaan Hoard meets
the second R11ondAv in December . :l t h i nk. the h' l anni nca Board
t o n i rah t:. should d take this 0000rt: unity to ast:: vOL.t -to present vot..tr
j orooras <-, l and ask: VOL.t any clurastiOnS they !-cave SO we can have the
Prel. :i mi. nary Sketch Plan Revi evj done tonight .
i
B . CASOLARA : The (rii nt..ttes generated tOni (3h 't c (au :l d provide
i i. nfcar• mation to -the 'Town Hoard .
i
I D . SCHAEFER : ; Thi s is located On the ('7ooda :l e or' ooer 't v on C :l ai k:
Stu Ext . in the 'Town c)4: Gro 't. or: aol•ryro .; i motel. v . ?' cif a mile west:.
al Ono C '.LArl:: St . E.A . with its intersection with Lick St .
C . TWIGG : These are Goodal e ' s bui. l di nos at the curve ?
D . SCHAEFER : Yes . that. i s tii. s houtse and bar ' r'� and an Old roac:l
used to oas_: s through there .
M . CAREYe How many acreG> are VOL.t planning on mining `:'
D . SCHAEFER : The of f ec: t:. e(J area J. s out I i ned in •the o l an of 1.5
acres . ' f he whole or-trcel is .1. 57 acres .
H . CASOLARA : I need a c l ar i. f i cat. i on on this . vOL.t said 25 acres
wcn.t1 d be of f ec. t. ecl . I n thi. <_, l e. t. ter o •f Seotemtter 21 it. said 't. i...� at S
acres W (DUld be mined . Is ther e a discreoancv between thOrse twO ?
D . SCHAEFER : The 8 ar.: res i s the ElCtL.tal. nit:. i t cSe :l -f . l he t:. cat'. a :l.
af 'f !?:.'c- t•. P.. d area . o ]. 't ar' ea . ss 't0 (- k pi .1. :1rict area . pir (:l (:" essinc1 area . i
There is a t:. ri bL.ttar- ••✓ ►r• t..tnn :i. ng t. 1-irOL.t01-1 :i. t an (-1 there
are woods located between the north proper- ty :line and Mart:- St .
E_ :;
H . CASOLARA4. How w :i l l you tr' ansvesp' 4.7e the Stream ?
D . SCHAEFER : Tl-tere :i. s a rina. dv an e >1 i sti. no roadwav wi th a
(:: L.t :l ve Ir. t . The DEC reraL.tested a c: tream r_' ros, si. nO permit i f we take
Ot..tt cL.tl N✓ er- t. and cat..tt in new one .
Bo CASOLARAa Whv :i =s ther (= ar•t evistinca r_ t..tl %✓ er• t . is it a farm
Or +:;rometh :i nci i
41
D . SCHAEFER : Yens it enabled the farmer to reach the fields
across the stream .
C . TWIGG : Wasr't ' t there a road there at one time '?
Do SCHAEFER "& Yeas . there was a road that went through 1-iere at
one poi. nt :i n t:•. i. me r-_ n(:.l that. i s the ct_t :I. N✓ eart for that road " Ri c-1ht.
now it i. s Used for the farm .
B . CASOLARAo Could d vt:at_t describe for me vc.ur•. reclamation plan ?
D • SCHAEFER "& f= irest. of all there area proposed two pit. areae:s „
From point. 1 it will be exc: r.-.: vAted in a soutl••) erIv direction at. all
times trvinca to create a bath tub effect so t:. hat no water that
drains off the face of the pit. will. c30 into -this. val 1 ev .
B . CASOLARA "& You are going -to strip off -the top soil. and -the
subsoil and stock pile it ":'
D . SCHAEFER "& Yes „ t: hrat. tr4i :l :l. be r.5t. oc�k piled at the north end e:rf
the excavation . If 'VC.,O) ..t l. oc) k at:. -the cross section map you can see
:it better . We are cloil-10 to excavate from north t0 sot ). th and try
to leave ave -the stream bante :intact al thounh it is n (:) t classified as
a. t r i. b t..t t. ar ••✓ .
G . WOOD : Yot..t classified :it aes a tribt..ttary in the text .
D . SCHAEFER "& There is a tri bt_tt:. ary but not in -this area of the
r_• ross section
Co l- WIGG "& Where is -the t:. ril::) utar• v located "..'
D . SCHAEFER "& The tr :i. l:) t..tt. ar- v rt..tns along the sot_tt1 ) side c ) f •the
proiect east. and west .
For reclamation . the eventual rest..t 'I t is to return
i. t t: o aari. ct..t1 tt.,tr- al. 1 4and so once everything i s� excavated we are
aoi n (.a tr_) grade the slopes , side slopes . f or- revs(::ietat. i on by
spreading the tole soi 'tthat 1-) as been stock r.:) i l ed . lE3 {•asi cal 1 v . vie
area tali. n (::i off the top soil and the silt ,✓ sand and ctrave :l and
t. tocle pi I j. nq th) o <_ e3 take 0LAt th) e c3. eaan sand and nravel. q return
both) those materials and reseed it .
D . CASOLARA "& 'There is no reel acc) ati. on p '1 ar•t then ?
D . SC::HAEFER : Y' ea <: s . there is . -thati �, or) e ) c, f the items the DEC
wants t:. o see . the reclamation plans Wher•) vie f :i. rsit started c:) ut
the DEC said to try and do it on USG mal::) s and they t. h) ot-tcah •t that:
wot..tld Lse ac: c el-, t. : h) :I. r-_ag but now that t.: hiev have -this with 20 foot
contours it is not ooi 1") o to show you a lot so they want someth i nn
m011-• e cicC:: ltr' ia 'l'. e ' v '. o tJe? are p1e- nnin {:a on Caninci bacl C) t .lt, to the Gilt". F'
and dr.. a top) ctaraphi cal. st_trvev with more detail ,
Bo CASOLARA "& l: am a little you 1::) l an on cni. ni 1-) c;a this.
-for 1 (:) ve:., art: . . is •t. hat:. correct ?
D . SCHAEFER "& Ri. r.3h -t .
i
D . CASOLARA "& How mt_tcl•) volt..tme do vc:au expect -to be moved out ?
I
i
Pacae - 11
D . SCHAEFER : We are not exactly E: Ure at thi S point in time .
8o CASOLARA : 1:ut can the re(-. I amat:. iort n1. an . if: 1 am r• t.� adin (a thi. s
rinht. . vot_t are startina off- at ar) elevation of 12 (") C) and removing
about 10O . C) OO vards of material and ending up with an elevation
of 12 .40 . is -that rea :l. :i st•. i c ?
D • SCHAEFER : Yes . ElCC0 it- d :i riq t» (a CIUI .. pre l :i. mi. n <ary r.:: al ct_t1. r:at :i. onr:s
there wi I I be about:. 10 ( ) „ 0 (.1C) .✓ ar•• drr (::) '4: mat. eri al removed „
C . TWIGG : And VOLA are lowering that a b 0 U t 22C) f R. e t. ?
D . SCHAEFER : 15 to '26 feet < Pit number 1 i. s ;'; ( ar► x 40 ( ) x '22
feet .
Be C: ASOLARA : How much of that.
010 fefr: t ii> (:7c:) i na t (a I::ae tca +a so :i. I
D . SCHAEFER : "I ' he t_ty7 � er % t» ca 1. : ?; :i nc kites i s l» oy::) s}c:ai. l anr..l ttaeri
there i 1 t / 2 to 2 1 ! 2? feet of SUb soi 1. .
G • WOOD : ( after Calculating on his pocket. calculator ) The
di meris3'. (ane:> resU1. t :in appro%x. i motel v 12 0 . (.a00 cubic ve� rds to hie
rt.artaove (::I from is i t- No :. 1 "
D . CASOLARA : Where is all the dirt not n (:a to come from that is
going to return that back: to an elevation co)—fun . . .
D . SCHAEFER : We are not returni. na it back:: to the on a :i nal.
e:) :I. evatt. i (an . it wi I".i lie 0 fee •t: low(•= r . We wi1 :I. r.:li. a it:. ClUt. . -.. hen
t1\1h•aen aae are d (:) rte we ttai I I tr• v to smooth i t ot..tt:. => o it can be farmed
aa <cai. n . Approx i mat:. (:l v l {:) to 15 t. h•a (::)t_t <. , anc.J vards will be a
vear- and that " s ma ; i mt_tm . We are not l ool:: i na at aoi nc7 in there
ctr•) d Otakin (::t Caul r ) {.) ("} vards I a. atlt. ablcl'✓ .
G . TOTMAN : As I understand this . the nt..trcaose of this is riot:.
for resale bt_tt. for -the use by -the private contractor . 1t makes a
difference in the a (noUnt of traffic that will. be aoi na in al-ad out.
(:) f t» i, e r e .
D . SCHAEFER : :l f contractor :i. s :i. nvol v (..•) d in bt..ti :1. c:l :i. r• (::r a I a it ae
i-=. h c.) p p i n a (r) alI tie is not aoing to <. rell ICK.) . 00 vards -to somebodv
else to take it all at once .
G . WOOD : I believe his intention is to t_ts> e this for- his own
onc-lo :i r•aa contract. i nq operations . not to sell it to others .
D . SCHAEFER : C:, oncc.) rni. na the traffic . he has h trU (.. k: stj it is a 2
h• oUr r (aar-) d tr• ip fr- orn t::; rot» on to .1t. 1•it:ac: <a wh•} er- ea he does all h•ai. s ttaor•• h:: 11
Aso i t» could be conceivable there would be b trucks per hour for r:a
total of 25 to 30 t:. r UCk: S ner day . rna ::; :i. alum .
C . TWIGG : Thce dU <_=. 't and dirt shouldn ' t be anv different than
if it was bei nca used -for aar :i ct_tl tt..tr• e,
F at ra eta
D . SCHAEFERO. There will. be no orocessi. no of material on site .
D . CHATTERTONO. Can the Planning Board insi <st that <somet. hi. na I:ie
done concerning the dust and dirt in the s i te - pl an review ?
G . TOTMAN : Yes . VJe can set condi ti ons i n -t•- I-) e s :i to -ol an
revi evi .. 1 f we see there could be a problem vie can address it in
conditions in the site -- plan reviewn
f icy tiii(_) C ) n a ci t<Je '� :i rtCt (:) 1..1t'. for rytll" E:? 11c) trJ vie clI'- e C1o1 r) C:{
to haroceed in this . I .i 1. get a hold of Vot..t . If we are going to
have a pl..tb :l. i c hearing Or if we are caoi nca to have another meeting
before a hat.tl:) l i. (:: hear i. nca w e ' l l let vcn.t know .
D . SCHAEFER : The P 1. a n n i nca hoard won ' t. ho1. d a h:) Ubl i. c hearing
t"Ir•) t:. i1. -th) e S1LOR is I:) <•assed l:) ',✓ t: he Town
H . CASOLARA *. We are asking the 1" ovin Board for clari. ficati. ori of
the procedt..tre :in this faro (-.- es-S . 1 think -t- hat:. is -the next step .
pe- a k i n (a for- mvsel. f . 1 ' m htc:) pi. nca the Town Board vii. l. :1. c:: ome h+ �i-kc. 1.0
with c. l ar i f i. cat:. i or•) or.t who is doing what: and h (aNJ the process is to
r- onti nUe . As soon as vie l: now . I ca. sSUMe vot.t will l•: now . We are
not. 1-: r• v :i. nr_s -to Mold vot.!
D . SHAEFER : 1:1 m riot t. rvi nca to 1::) t.ft a fire under you either . I
Ust'. INERn 't.1 •t:. c) k: r) ow what. :i. s orai ncs on .
G . WOOD : I don ' t think the Pl anni na Boa.. rcl it- LA1. ed out. the
Ir
G:) oss :ibili. ty o 'ff holdinca yot.tr site - plan hearing in cc) ni !"tnct. ion with
the Town Boaar•• d ' s aI::: G1l= hearing .
G . TOTMAN : We are encot"tr' ao i. no that "
G . WOOD : So vaiur stat:. ement is not: -true that you won ' t do
anvt.: hi. no until the Town Board completes the SEOR review .
G . TOTMAN : We will hold a Pt.lbli. c hearinca in con •it..mct. ion with
th (:? Town Board and take down anv infcarmation Ares. tinted at the
hear- inwoq but after the heari. na -the Plannina Board will wait until
the "I" own Board mat : e ._> a decision ion (::) n the SEOIF", before r:. (Join(-1 a �)
{_) Ian review .
C 4< L CUSTOM . INC . OWNED BY CHARLES NICHOL AT 520 CHAMPLIN RD . .
TOWN OF GROTON , TAX MAC' NO . 19 - 1 - 4 . 1. 20.
G , TOTMANo C' hi :i. <. . i � > l cacc:� tecl or') the <: ( al_lt:: hitrJest c`.`. r_) rr ) E:) r ca ff -the
intersection c.:) f 01. d Stage Rd . and Champl. :in Rd . A business Is
beinca Operated t: here w1'iere thev store brick: bIorc : s . 'lhev have
been i n 1::) L Hi i. n E.•) 'r w there' + o r is + e MJ v e a r' Z T I"i E'' ✓ f"t (:) t�J Ud /_t r) '1= 't:: C) build
an office bt..tildino t:. here . ThFr✓ store br i. c: k: t:) locl:: s 't: here . r1s :I
understand i. t the ma ; or crt:tr" t of th, ei. r bt.tsi ness i s then install
b1 oc6: d r i veUJavt:-• . Ir�) Order' t:. to rt..tn a bt.! s :i. n (� sc:s i n t. hie f caUJr) (::) f'
Gr'• Otc) n ✓ OU C: hec1•:. the 0rdin ;..An ( e to ''xee a. f it ies allowed in thlrit::
.:area and i f i t. i s vot_t come i n + oit. a site - plan review . 1" he
P1 a n n i nci Board 1 coo s :i. t over and decides i f a pk..tb l i c: hearing is
needed or not and then thev r_Ietc. r- rni ne i. f any conditions are put:.
on :i t . The `, were here for the l as... t. meet:. i n (3 and ex f.:) 1. a n e d wheat.
.tartey wanted to dry ;and how thev wanted to c:in i t .
C . TWIGG : What i. s there to di <_, (-.: c.ts <
G . TOTMAN : As :I: read 4.-: t•1e inil"1U 'teS ca `✓ er there; was no deci. ssion
made on this laµyt month . i
B . CASOLARA : I think toe (:j (:at -to t:. h e I:-.t o i n t where we had to (::l e (- i. d e
whether" thev rleedecl a pc.tblic hear.. i. ncl or not .
C . TWIGG : I thoc.tcaht we decided there wags no need for ICA
pt..tblic hear" :i. no .
I
G . TOTMAN ." It has been i n operation f (:) r abot..tt. -three vears :and
the• on 1. v reason :i t has come •t:. a the Board now i. ss by the
erlforcemen -t: officer- rand he nee_ dpd as h (_( ildina oer. mit . If there
wEas asa problem in runn i na of the business , the nc= :i. cthbore wot..tl. d
have said Saometh i na .
B . CASOLARA : 1: ' m r_: onr_ erl"aed about that liner c..1fi :l. ocli. c- . this is
the second or third t. imnw it has been used ,, I ' m ext. reme1v . . . . . .
that anvone who cclme = in and has been in bt..ts: ineS for• a. number of
`✓ ears can sav ' in e ✓ e:. r ✓ o-t1••1e:. 1'" (- rays (_ �' determined that, d _..
a � a ti 1- a -+ ]. t:. was._s determined In G•+ .
don ' -t:. need a public hear• i. no I:aer.. at..ts: e no one complained . 1 1crl0w
i. f :1 owned a bi..tGci. nes =.s :and c:: aine in and vr.:lt„( determined I needed aaa
p:+ t..tb 1 :i. c hearing I wot..tl d be di sSarluoi. nted if 1: looked ked a"at:. mi 1"it_ttec:- and
in eaver'- `✓ one (::? '¢ -the other ca rSeS a l:] t_tb :I. i c hear i r1 (::1 was not t•iel ('I .
G . TOTMANo I think- wear deceived the Pt..tblic- very badly on that
bar rest-. at..traant. thin ( i uI:1 there . 1: dial my di-myinede.%r st. between
meet. i. nca !S talk: ino to people and t:. a1. F:: inca to the press trying -to
rrxr0. <•aain -to them that: the 1:_tt"tl_1lic: was not whether thev can
or- cannot have it hecat..t (=se it 5ay .l in the Ordinance that: then call
h a ve :i. t . !" h (=r c7n 1. v t I"i i n ca that -the I::, (_( t z 1. i (- i"i e <_ar i. r1 c1 i ! t'1 e l r.:l f r. a r- . i. s"i j
-that: part i Cu1 al'• Case . wars -t: hat. i. t was f e1. t by the 1 oc r• d that: t: he
l:ie� c:il::i :ie ou (aht. to k: n (7w what way; m::iino on , We d :i. d rir..rt - lave? to 4"tol. cl i
at tic..tbl. ic hearing and it s: ayss in the Or- dii. ianrE. % t: tlaat_ it is al. 1r._+ cverl .
The U1'•i1 v reasoil We rtI" e l•iav11"1 (:l a S=si te " pl an review :is s to control
hots it is al. l r_taied . That is a State law . not ot..tr law .
i
Ec . CASOLARAn. Isn ' t-. i. t the intent of the pt_tb :l. i. C tleari no t. hev may
have some :straight forward infor- mation that vie as> members
may n (_1t be awt-ar ea r.:) + .
G . TOTMAN : Once in a while . if we think there cou :l. d be a
�:� re-iblErrri . ve �:s .
E( . CASOLARA : Becat_ttse it. concerns (ree . ♦ pain , that :if we. corltint..te
to use t:. he-r 1 oc3i. C.: that dictates that wr•.:.s dory t have as
t= aoe _ 14
i
i
i
I
t'} eict !'— i r'ia i n then case o r..a G} S_i cii nei-Sr bei r'} n established for several
vears:, wi. thot.t 't:. camola :i. nt . I think: we •it.tst mi. c3ht aG; well " u „ U
G . TOTMAN : 1' doi-I this-I that. J. s 'the on1. v reiali->(::} n here , I •f
the is there and it cC:} t_Sl d C: t^lucc e orobl t ? m7n.
or traffic problems and Chinas l. ik: e that. . then I think: `✓ ot.l are
ricahta Bt_tt in this partict_tI ar case it is r'l (:} t and it. h � isn ' t been .
Be CASOLARA : Then :I: think vie shOUl. d approach the r_} roncisal from
th (at r} ai. nt of view (anr_I not •f rc} m 't:. he r..( ai. nt. (af view t. h (at no one ' s
co(Tip.I. a:ti ned and not -from the Point. of view that this person
been :i. n viol iat. :i. on of till l:lr d-i nar'ice 3 `✓ e (ars but f r (:)m the point
of view that we approve this sol el v on the t} ,-:asi. s_=• -t. hat vie do ill
•f ee 1, we r'ieed to have a ol_tb I i. c hear i In ber_ (at_t (. e. i. It i e.' not
envy. ronmental. 1 v i moact_ i na the arelil et. c
G . TOTMAN : 1: Elk (3ree wi. th `✓ 0U IC)C) % 0
Be CASOLARAe l: ' fri r� (:rt. ffec? l. i. no t:. l'"Eat. l: afri aael :i infarfneci i-� l� ol_tt thi. t=.
1: c:4on ' 't. k: 1"} (:aw what:. k: i n (::I of traffic is c::tener ai 't. ed . I
don ' t l :: now how the nei t3hbor (::; -feel abot.lt i t He comes in and of
C. o l..t r" . ( . 4a el a. => a ca i. r } (-} It o rreser'it itfrcm the r) a i a t (::) f view that
a -
r_ v e r ✓ t 4-t x n a �. .� p e w (.. 4"} v keen because tie wants a ra e r" m i. t'. , B t.l t fr} a •✓ toe?
-the neoo.1. e who l. :i `✓ e next door .1re ssvi n (a ' oee the traffic i � :•
Ill o1. 1i. lao i. n and ot.lt. of here at 5e ( } (:; in 'the morninao i. t :is
di !=-:. rt_lnti na fii `✓ hol..lsehiol d '' we can do somet. h :i na .
Go TOTMANn Billn `✓ at.t are t. ellina me that t: h", i. s thing has been
Cda :i r1Cl (7r} If (:} S '%%3 and not one (:} 'f• thoEl:.We people have come :i n to
t_ts and said anvth i no and the `✓ have that problem ? WOt_tl d vot.0 I If
`✓ ot_t were a ne i ahb (:) r „ wotl wait. -f awl someb (-.3civ 'to a:ipp I `r f or a
nr- r- mi. t before `✓ ot.t hot I Bred ?
Be CASOLARA : I have seen too many instances where this lags
hFar} I- ened IN
G . TOTMAN : Iri ftr✓ opinion `✓ (:} t.t don ' t reed as public hear :in (7 on
It. h} :i. s nar" tict-tIar t: hin (;y > I ' ll 'ta !; e till vote of the Board
C . TWIGG : Leave -.: hat cart OUt c.:) f it ., that thev have been :in
bt1 "-:il Ill e55 far _ `✓ earis0 1. see no reason far hIiivina to public
hh par i. no to stock pile brick: . It is not (- reat. i. nc� a lot of noise .
tar i c: l% don ' t mak: e (nl_tch noise when `✓ ot_t are I oad i no them and
t_lnloadina them "q it is not offensivE-.� to the eve . I see no reason
-for hav :irip (a public hear ino . I think vie do have-? the advantaoe of
seei no the thi. ncl i. n oi--)erat i on a We don ' t have to vi !=• tlsal i. z. e What
i t. J. c: (;lo :i. n (: ! to I.le „ tray--_. I•:: r; c}tra whist:. i t:. :i <_�:> „ I f there :i <c: a nei ahbor"
there comla1. ia :ini, nca . I (:ion ' t knew if that makes aa. nv real. b i o
di f If erenceu Suppose tt'; e trt.tc k: : r_4a come i n there . the f arm
tractors are ot.lt at 5: (_} (} i. n the morni no
Cie •TO •TMANe I thi nto where bill (ancl I mi oht be di saclreei na is .
and Di I I made (a c7. 0fnfr} er7t. a mi rit_tte a (3r..} that I agree with , I f vc:at_t
are deciding whether- or riot, to ha `✓ e a pt.tblic. hearitan . do not t"tse•:a
1
the i c• riter :i. a that thev have been there for 73 veczrs . You 1nok: at
the prcaposal. . you weigh rah out the problems and decide what F; :i nd of
an a. moact it is goi ng t o have , We have an i. dea of what- he is
ooi nCt to be c:loi. nCi When voe.► de C: i. Cie Vora are oo i no to i ave a
i:.at..tbl.' a. C.: hear- i. nati you have to bear- in mind wha •t. a Via ►. bl. ic hearing is
for .' It is to (stet input from -the people F:: rlotraino tl•1aI: the
Or # d nanc:- e . 4: ►..( 1. 1. vie ]. I e a11. ow !es it:. . The pt..tbIir.- hearinca is to let
the peopl e kr) OVJ whz-at. some of their problems might be . riot whether
a. t. C- i3•tn CJP c- arirlr..at be . IaeC- ral.tcii ? a. t: l QC:ai nC tfJ k� e . t 't 1. S fan . `✓ hl (:a4J
vc:au : ar• e racai rio t. o control a. t „ I •th i nF:: that i s where -:. hie
misconception came in or) the last o n e it
Be CASOI.. ARA : We di <.::. cu <--ssed t:. h ,-tt:. at the (:- o (rimi tt:. ee meeti no at. vour
hC:at- se and vie di s (uc.:, sed when we have anc.:ather• C? t_ b l i c hears no the
thing we-.. Shot..tld do is not. i. fv the people either i. n t�Jriting or at
the hearing verbal. l y rand say . this meeting :is for the purpose: of
caath(--., rin (:( information fora these types; of th :i. ncas which the Board
is empowered to act upon . '
Go TOTMAN ; A 1o •t. of people have a different r. once? r.) t.
comp1e? t:. el. v of vJl••iat a public I- earina is for . 13ometimes `✓ C:au i-to1CI a
pt..tbl i c hear i no where it does maFdes a lot of difference of what i
put :: i ri there . whet_ I.1er it is c--ioi np to be or- Jd •tt, J. s n ' t clo :i. np to be .
In thi S parti. c (..tl ar caSe . on thC—? S Si te•-- Inl. an t'- evi ekom the
Or• di nano-? < avG. the `✓ are all (-) grab 1 e so it i se up to •thle Haar d to
control how the `✓ are allowed . The•7 pt.ablic- does not have that
c c:ara = < r p t i c::a ri (::) f a p t_ b 1 :i. c: hearing .
D . CHATTERTON : IS i. t the rule to hold a pt_tl-OA C: hearing or- i s thaI:.
t-tnt-► St-taIto have that ".:'
G . TOTMANd In C.:at..► r par• ti cul. ar- ci.ise . i. t. :i. S t..tnust.tal . Bill is of
the ' cao :l ni on wr? shC:at_► 1 d 1••ia `✓ e a lot more public hears. r1oS t:. h•ian iskie don
D . CHATTERTONa I lenotrJ when Roger- Gleason applied . coast of me .
there was a 1-at.al-alic. hc: ari. no .
G . TOTMAN ". That. ►Alas on ; i ma i or !:-nubd i. vi s i on and that ' s the law
VOLAI have to hold a public hear i no .
Be CASOLARAe 'T• his is a may . it- srav = you inav Mold t-a outal. ic
hear i nn . I am .i t..ts •t concerned of a precedent:. being set ,.
D . ,CHATTERTON : It seems to me :i f you don ' t dca i. t. that.: way . then
c,wer• vbodv is aoi no to <-::sav the heck with on i n (-t ' and do it anvtrJav
and then after- vearS apply .
E( . CASOLARA : Exr:tc •tly m`✓ point. .
G:
G . TOTMANe What `✓ c:a (..( s:trr... Saving,.ay :>. rare a. ...> r-anc-i I an SeE:? where `✓ cat.►
mi gh •t be sari nCa th•iat 4 thes_ e things have been in operation -for 2
or ;'; `✓ ears and it. is an indic:: at:. i. on the aoni. nea officer has not
beean doing h i. s job " But in light of that . in Saving it is going
-to be per- petuated all -the time . t. hiere i C. another ha ►_tsi nc? SS Just
Page _.. 16
star4.: ed t_tp and Gar- v Wood !-gas. sent a letter-- to them stating we
have detected a bt..u*i nes s l::) (= a. ng operated at vc) ur proper• ty and you
ctu_ sist come in and apply fcm a site --- plan r evi. eaa . So it is not:. I
cto :i. nca t..tnnot. i cecl .
H . CASOLARA : I hope the :I. op i c . . . . J. f I came i n and :I. ooked at -(: hie
rni nttc r and saw e . er r kadw else who had be c.an in business applied �
�
arid %You didn ' t hold a pt..tbl i c hearing and Vot..t hol. d one -for
G . TOTMAN : What I want to clar- ifv is , these businessc:•iB are
not ooi. nn unnoticed now . People are teal I i no t..ts when then see
somethi nca and we are k: eepi nca on top of i t .
B . CASOLARA : I think it an eclUcWat. icana :l pr• ocessi .
G . TOTMAN : Does evervbodv have an Underst•. andi no of what is
being rtsk: ec! on t. hi s proposal ?
i
CECIL TWIGG made the MOTION tl-te Pl :_annino Boai cl
fnI I ow the short form si te --- p l ar ) r c= vi F:it-a . S(m. e: ti c.) n 440 . :I. 3 . _and not:.
hold a public hear• inq on the proposal. of CHARLES NIC:: HOI__ of 524N )
Champ I i n Rcl . Town of Groton because it is noncontroversial for
the bUSi. ness of C �:. L CUSTOM . INC . at the above location and
APPROVE::: -the application of C:: F ()RLES NU..:; HOL preser•itcacl tothe Board
at the Octolaer •. 1988 meetinca4 MONICA CAREY seconded the motion ,
VO "I" E L Yes •1` wi cao
C• at,_ e v
Ch•tat. tertcm
I4ci - Casca •I ara
MOTION CARRIED
SUGGESTED RATE CHANGES FOR PERM I T APPLICATIONS I CATIONS
G . TOTMAN . Di d ever- vbod %.,e ciet in their package the suggested
rah:. e r_: hanc;te u• ? A i :I. regal I you di Sct_ts < ed tl .., em at the Oc: t:. ober••
meeting and agreed to recommend them to the Town Board ?
C . TWIGG : Yes .
PROPOSED AMENDMENT TO THE TOWN OF GROTON JUNKYARD ORDINANCE
.. .... ..... .... ._ _ _ .__ ._ _ . _ _._ _... .... _-. .__ .__ .__ -_ __ ._ __. _.. .._ ._. .. . ._ __ _. --• --. _... .._. _.. .._ ..... ..._ ..... .._. ._•
R . CASOLARA : Pit the (') ct. ober meet t-) p we I a o k e d at a proposal
f rofn Gar• v Wood re;:• ci ard :i na •lwh-) e Jt..mn :: var• d Ordi r) ance dated October 1. 9 ,
1. 9E3E3 .
G . TOTMAN < Di d evervbndv pet. Fit c: hance to look it over and do !
vot..t understand what the reasoni no behind it is and the need for
Et . CASOLARA : I ha-%.ore some concerns aboUt the er) 4: c:3rc::: ement of such
an Ordi. nance" We are r- eclt_ti r i. nca people to mal:: e entries recaard :i. nc:a
Page -- 17
•• i
male . model. col. car' . 11) . etc . . etc . and it has to be avaiIable for
review by the Coda En -forcement Officer and I think it: is well. and
aoc:ac::l and well advised to 1 : erel:a on top of this type o 'f oper' < .Ationn
bc.tt I real. 1. .✓ clt..testi. on the en -forceability of this and the
IoQistics of Gar `✓ having to 0o around and review it . .1. s it
possible to do
G . WOOD : Yes , because we do an annual i nsper_' •t. i on anvwav sera
it J. s not noi. r1n to be a c.1i 'f4: 1cult t. hinn ot as-:Sk: the owr'1er tea
produce a ]. on .
P . CASOLARA : r r e we creatirsct a Faa=..iper mont_trrlr•.ent ?
G . WOOD : I 'f: we aarE?It it i as f_ior'te w :i t. h the deliberate i
:intention of at least creating a paper barrier that will protect
the Town from litiriation . if the mats oroduced a loo tool; and we
l ool- aalt it. and sav vot_t have done i5- c1c:: 11 and such and later on there
is a problem „ 'then he ha <.=_s. 'f al. s3. i f i ed the records; to the Town .
C . TWIGG : Tl-ier"s 1"ie shoal derv:, the responi-Ed bi l i tv .
G . WOOD : Yes . and at the same time vie tried to create
some 't: hinn that would riot be a terrible burdensome thi. na for" the
i. nd i. vi dual . He can ao down to a bookstore and cset a bound book
and keep as record of what cars come :into the lot. . '
G . TOTMAIV : Whien he bri. t gas a car i. n he makes a record of the
date he puts:.; it on -the lot ;I lists t1"ie year make i(drld model 4 notes
'ghat the oil. and aas were drained Out of it .
D . CASOLARA : MV neXt,: cluec-. t. i on i <.•_s wha=.tt. 1-ia0lqotens i of the person i
sloes not do it at:. al. 1 '?
G . TOTMANO. •Thi s wi 1. 1 become part of the Town JunI... var' d
Or' di nance al root d at, the end of the Ordi nanc: e it tel. 1, s what:. will '
happen i f the Ordinance is riot followed .
One of tI.ie= 'thouoh'lts_• behind this lfa a%s a.3t there is so
m Lot ch not nq on the a1 r today . in the newsr.. apers „ that the c_,lener' al
r_at_tbI i c :is t_aecorrsi. na more aware o 'F the ctrcat_trad bei ► lu coritami. natreed . �
There are a::1 lot c:a •f I a14 c.% U1. t: S not no on oi: 1 and that was
cont. ami nat: ed . l._ ook: at what happened over- in Jacksonville . one
li. t 'tic_? tar'il:: caused all those prol::alems .
C o n c e i va-ab l v i of a ac.ty has, 150 'ko 200 cars in the
var" d and he says there is on1 '`✓ 3 -t: o 4 aalloris o -f cic-:tsoline in ar:t '
s a v 'to heck with it . He m :i. a h t. cx o c.a t..t t rrs o n t:. h - later--
and take the ermine out and di..tmp the oil. on the ground . What vie '
are saving i s before he scuts that car- out. i then he field he is7 '
s t. a 't:. :i. ri n he •t:. o o l< t Fi e o i. l and ca arts o t_t t o f i t .
BILL CASOLARA made -t he MOTION the Planni. na Boaa. rd
recommend -to -t:. he r (".) wn Board the proposal mad {:' by GARY WOOD coated
October- 19 . 19C98 'for amendment to the tic.tnFcvard Ordinance bey
aalal::ar" ca ✓ Eedy CECIL. TWIGG seconded the mot i. on :
F a a e - l8
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VOhdr" E � A1. Ll. I N FAVOR
MOTION CARRIED
INFORMATION OF POSSIBLE FUTURE DEVELOPMENT IN THE TOWN OF GROTON
G . TOTMAN :
There was a mc-_ et:. i. nca a while back$ of a de rel. goer
who was i n terest. ec::l i. n bl_tvi nc Surrte .l and for f t..ttt..tre development .
He has bul..tnht. the (.or- nel. i US far on S . Main S t . There i ss ra
<. . tronc3 possibility thev will be coming in for si. to --- pl. Mtn reviews .
riot as a whole pr- o ,,iect . bl..tt in stages for- the land . There is
st. runn potssi bi 1 it v t. hat the first stare wi 1 :l be fOr two
industries . one being the IPI and the other being Empire Soils .
_I.. hrev dun ' t plan on uic.Bi nn Vi 1 1 acFe el ect•'. r i c: butt. are necaot i at i nn for--
1p
Village sewer .
1` h1. s=0 is fur•• :1. nfc..arm t :ior•t for the Board so vul_t are
aware somet. h i nca is comi. na in -the f t_ttl_tre .
REVIEW OF SUB - COMMITTEE ' S RECOMMENDATIONS TO RESTRUCTURE THE LAND
USE ORDINANCE
G . TOTMAN : At. the 1. as -t mee •t:. i na we tal k: ed abol..tt the
recommendations area were mak: i. r'ta to the Ordinance . :Ri. 11 has here ;-+
I
work: i nca with the l adv cundensi nc it all fur- us and aet. 't. :i. no i. t on
a c.:: c::uriputer .
Be CASOLARAu. I have the �f� :irs:st:. 'F chaptershere . There were more
extensive cI"1ciricreS to chapter '.-"i •.: a. nd 11. .
G . TOTMAN : ShOLAl d vie hold what (rye have until she has chapter- 5 i
:1.04 arid 4 done before {:_iroceedi. nc anv further- '-'
..
Be CASOLARA : Yes . I think: ace should tact a7. 1. the chancres
inc.: c.arpuratvd i. n and than net a clean doct-tment that represen -ts I
what is left . In other words . vie need a new (3rdinanc_ e . Then we
need to 1 oclk: at tha •l:•. •t:. o see i. f it is what we Usant. . There have
been massive sections deleted and chanced . Even at this oui. nt I
c} o thr' oucl-t sc:) me of the chances and I ' m st. art:. inci to net. curifl_lsead .
I think we cire at a nucad point to take it to the Town Board with
the chances aai th the red line and caet those sections taken ot..tt
and ne. t a clean final coriv back .
G . TOTMAN « What volt are savi n (3 is we have approved what we
have done a :l. readv . now we oe •t:. i •t into a docl..lment: and 1"tave -the
"I` olrari Board agree wit:. ka what. tree ha �re dune and before tlac� v r e {�� r i. nt.
what.: we 1-iave clor'te tc) that poi r•it let ' s cru back thr• cm..tah it. and
f i ne tune it acid then cai vex i. t back to them .
Be CASOL.ARA : The inter-it. wil •t:. o come t.tp wi t:. h a doc: t_trrient. -that
shows what was and what i. s bei no del. eted arts! i. t. shows i t. by the
,.
tick, marks in the mar- gin . which are red Iined , and i5tr- i. k: e OUts
P aca e:•a 1. 9
i
wt'li. ch shows the stricken ciUt change and the new portion inserted
to ma4:: e :i. t easier for anvone to read it .
G . TOTMAN : We Have agreed of what we have done . now we want �
them to approve what we have done bLkt. I:aef ore t: hev send it c.) ut to �
the printer- to be reprinted we want it back to review to see if i
vie real. l v agree with what. it says .
B . CASOLARA : I think what was should do i. s have this type ccrf
doct.tff) enIt-. c:to to the Town Board -to show -them what the changes are
and show them wl••lat the new 't:. e :: t is -to read and then we will have
F=' a •t:. ta4:: e out all. the strike ot-tt:. s so that all the se'actions in 1-ier• e
that have been deleted are taken OUt and we have a fresh clean
co4:) v . We can look: �-at. that and decide if -t:. hat is wl"lat. we want .
It is a volc.tminot..ts document and I think if we oi. ve
a y ) rc-) ! ent. ation to -the Town Board and explain why thirlo <. aaer' e
deleted and changed the Board could better- Understand what we
have clone .
Art i cl e 1, pertains -to c . ont. en •t:. s !'-.•.c) e:? ver `✓ time vot..t
, charmed somethinwq 'vot-t had to ao back: to Ar• t . 1. arid , cl-laricie it: .
Article and 4 had the I arccest:'. wholesale changes . Article 5 is
C.3orle now , Ar' t: . : : is still being cI-lanmed „ I am hopef ► A1. this Wj. 11.
be c: onclt-tded by •t':. 1-ie December- frleeting .
OTHER BUSINESS TO COME BEFORE THE BOARD
G . TOTMAN read a letter- addressed to the TotPI Planning Board -from
Richard Case of 13 (.*) 2 Pleasant Val l ev F�*: d . Town of Groton concerning
bt..tsi. nests bei. r'lc.i c: ondt..tcte-ed at above l oc:: ati on .
'Enclosed is the $ 1 ) fi. linc'i fee for the site-� - pl. <sin
r'evi ew that was reeat-tested by Zon i nm Officer Wood . I believe that
all f11v previ Oats oni ng permit: !:-. area in vour• -file :i f vcnI r• hot.. l d
need further re •ferenc: e .
At the p: re !-> ent. time I r.'.'iffl c.)pera 't ina a t:. rt-tc.• 4::
transfer bt..tsi nes- s at 'Y102 Pleasant Val. lev Rd . ih..tring work hot..trs->
OUr vehi. clh:? "•-:i handle stone . gravel . e 't C . from QUar'• r1EE•? w. 1. oc: allv arid
iI t: h :i n an ayanr' o %X i mate 5C,) mile radius . Our t:) l.dsi. IE-? !"SS rjr) er" ate '.:5
b asi. cc a I v from Pipe i :I. to November ,, ;::spprox i matel v S fllonth !::> . Some,
wi. nter transfers t. ak: e yal ace when weather permits .
Vehi c I e maintenance is pri mars. I v tak; en care o •f t:lv
Ca =. 4:: e Cs in Etna . Our Iot is used for park:: in (;7 and stgramc of
w0rk-. egt.d. y._imerlt. . First and f oremo , t. ::�C) 2 F=' l. ear. ar'lt. Va. l :I. ev Rd . is.
maintained for the existence of the C . se family .
74: vot..t 1'•lr.: ve !:.. Iiot-tld anv •fL.tr •(•: her• inquiries , i::) 1e &1sc:a
feel free to stow at o1_tr- residence and have a ct..tP of coffee a1-I
G . ' TOTMANe .1_ h :i s i s a letter i=.ls, k: i. na c.► s to review the
si. 'tt-tati on . my <suciae <.-.ti on wc) t..t :l d be to acl•.-: nowl. edcae •t:. hat we received
t1-lc� letter- and that we invite him to coma to the next meeti no
f or a mrel i. m i nar v 4; et. ccl i - :1. an rev :i. ew .
Boaard agreed * * -**
P(-Ac3e - 2C)
\
Th crams ra di <.-sac..css :i. orl can whether to hold a r ec-ic_t :l. ar meet. :\,
December r . eei na that it f al. l S _i c..cSt c ! ays-,� be + care Christmas.-, l � '\
der.:: i d e d n dc_ce •to ti-ye f ac. t. of memi:aer c: on + l i (:: •ts „ there would d he
regular meeting of the Pl. anni na Board -in T) ec. emt) er ,„ 1. 988 .
'T' hra ne >ct reac_rl ar•• meet. i. na o .a: the P I an n i n cli Iccazar d vai. 1 '!. hte 4se 1.
"fhccrsdav < <:Janccary 1. 9u 1. 989 at 8 ° 00
BILL CASOLARA made the mot:. :i. (:) r-j the meet:. i nq be adjourned , MONICA
CAREY <_=: ec� nnded t-. l-� e mot: i (Dr., mat. i. (.) n c-� a:� rr i. ed and meet: i nct WaS
ad .i rsc_ur• ned
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