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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1988-02-18 _: to TOWN OF GROTON ` PLANNING BOARD Thursday , February 18 , 1988 , 8 : 00 p . m . BOARD ( *present ) PUBLIC PRESENT *George Totman , Chairman Gary Wood , Zoning Enforcement *Mike Post , Vice - Chairman Officer *Cecil Twigg Doris Salerno , 210 - Old Peruville Rd . *Monica Carey Susan E . Camin , Pleasant Valley Rd . Verl Rankin Roger Gleason , O1d ' STage Rd . * Bill Casolara ^George Totman , Chairman , opened the meeting at . 8 : 10 p . m . Minutes of the January 21 , 1988 meeting were reviewed . C . TWIGG made the motion the minutes u be approved as presented ; , ,B::: ."GASOLARA seconded ' .the motiono -Minutes of the 1 / 21 / 88 meeting were approved as presented without additions or corrections . SITE PLAN REVIEW presented by MICHAEL, POST ,- Pleasant - Valley Rd . , Town of Groton , Tax Map No , 36 - 1 - 63s G . TOTMAN : This is a request for a Special Permit and itrequires a Site Plan Review by the Planning Board , The Board looks over the request to see if it is detrimental to the neighborhood . This is a i; warehousing of electronic equipment and a repair workshop . There 1! is a minimal amount of traffic coming in and out and customers coming in at various times . u M . POST : No , there are trucks , ;; UPS comes in and out but there is never any customer traffic . G . TOT4AN : As I understand this , it has been happening for a period of time . M . POST : Since December , 1983 . Co TWIGG : What makes you decide now to apply for a permit ? M POST * Actually , there is less activity going on at the house now than �j there was at the start , for the last . year and a half we have been i located in Ithaca . There is a possibility we could be locating from Ithaca back to Groton . I should have applied for the permit before . C . TWIGG : There is no customer traffic ? M . POST : ?� What we are doing , I worked for Morse Chain at the South Hill plant and we bought some of their electronic equipment and our customers call us over the telephone for repair or parts to their electronic equipment . WeT:Also do repair of electronic equipment for Borg-Warner is and Therm in Ithaca and they usually send their equipment to us by UPS . We also sell spare parts for the equipment . There is a lot of UPS activity and sometimes there is tractor-trailer activity . i' d PLANNING BOARD °1 2 February 18 , 1988 G . TOTMAN : I mentioned that for two reasons . One is that it is late in coming in and 24t has been happening over a period of years . The question we have to decide is does ' it require a ` public hearing . We have to make that decision . The reason I mentioned it had been happening for a while was normally at a public hearing people who are against something JL Will come out for the hearing and voice their opinions . Normally when something is happening and people don ' t like ' it they complain about it . In this particular case , if MIke had not asked for a permit before doing what he has been doing and there has been no conversation about what he has . been- doinge, : to me it did not ' appear • it was a nusiance to the area , otherwise ' we might have heard something about it . 1 B . CASOLARA : i I don ' t think 'I agree about people complaining . Not about - it , being a nusiance but about° peoplercomplaining ., The fact that it is a4fate accompli , nobody has said you can ' t do it , that there fore it is accepted , the people may not be 'aware of the zoning regulations to control certain activities;. Co TWIGG : I ' don ' t know , even a public hearing wouldn ' t have any bearing on whether he put it in there or , not , except that it would give us some input on the decision that we 'make - and the feelings of the neighbors would not necessarily make the decision . We are going to make the decision . The only reason to have a public hearing is if we think we ,need more input . I .personally don ' t see what input we could get that would change our decision . If all it is : is UPS going in and out , and that. ' s: not more than once a day . M : POST : Actually , it could be twice . a day . The could deliver in the morning and pick up in the afternoon . It ' s not happening now but it could if we- move back . to the Groton location . Co TWIGG ,So you have the UPS truck coming in and out twice a day , which -is no different than the neighbors getting deliveries , really . The . ;;'only other thing would be the tractor-trailer and if there is jjadequate room for the tractor- trailer to - get off the road that seems h, to be the only problem with traffic . G . TOTMAN : llYou don ' t plan , in the future , of having any customer trade ? ,f M . POSTS ; No . !r , G . TOTMAN : '� If you happen to close up your operation in Ithaca and move it back " to where - you are now , the only difference , in your opinion , of what would happen would be more truck traffic ? M . POST : Let me break down the traffic . There would be people traffic . Right now Pat . and I go in different cars . That ' s two cars coming !` and going . If we were to be working out of the home our cars would not be coming and going but an employees car would be coming G and• going . That would be less car traffic . There would be more UPS traffic . There would be the possibility of UPS coming and going two • I; i I, II PLANNING BOARD - 3 February 18 , 1988 u times a day where now it is about twice a week . In terms of tractor trailer traffic there is virtually none of that in , Groton right now but there would be - what is happening in Ithaca if we came back to Groton . . I want you to know , it is not our intention to do business at our Groton address but it is an option we wish . to keep open . tM C . TWIGG : Q How often would this tractor- trailer be coming and going ? Me POST : Once every week or week and a half . u . M . CAREY : Is there enought room for a tractor- trailer to get off the road ? M . POST : He back into the driveway . Be CASOLARA : On the Environmental Assessment Form it says to describe the project briefly and you `state you anticipate 'no changes to be made . For the purpose of the record , � we should know . what the business is and basically what you are going to be doing . M . - POST : ' What - do you want to know? Be CASOLARA You indicate no changes to be made to the - existing buildings and facilities , and so on ; it is the intent to conduct the business in our home ; the intent of the .section , is to answer -what is the business . M ' POST : Ask;yanybquest ontand I ' ll answer it . for you . Be CASOLARA : `One of the things that Gary is charged with is to categorize the �4activity and as far as I know that has not been done . And there is no description here that tells what the activity is . M . POST : ' Doyou need something more than the explanation I just gave that we repair electronic equipment and sell spare parts . Be CASOLARA : That, is a description but then it says the zoning officer has to categorize the activity . G . TOTMAN : In ' a Si te - Plaro)Review it does .not go tb �the Zoning Officer , Be CASOLARAs It says that it is the Zoning Officers responsibility to categorize the activity of the facility , doesn ' t he categorize it ? 1, G . TOTMANs Not that Gary is not interested , I don ' t mean that , but unless my understanding is wrong , the reason the Site- Plan Review was put in was so a group of people interested in all parts of the Town rather than one Person would look at it . u C . TWIGGe Do you have ' any waste products ? M . POST : No , there is °° no waste besides paper . Y, y a U �I s l PLANNING BOARD - 4- February 18 , 1988 I} B . CASOLARA : There is no waste oil ? E M . POST : Norp what would we use oil' for? B . CASOLARA : Isn•' t there oil in the. machines ? it M . POST : It stays in the machines . • B-. CASOLARA : It isn ' t disposed of or .changed ? i j M . POST : . No , they are self- contained units . G . , TOTMAN : Are there any other questions ? l B . CASOLARA : Do we have any legal liabilities associated with these types n of approvals ? . �i II G . TOTMAN : What . do - you mean ? ii B . CASOLARA : . You mentioned the other day the liabilities . in the approval of planning . types of things . G . TOTMAN : When you do a building : inspection , - like _ ' when ,you inspect this building here and decide there can only be 35 people maximum on this side of the room and we sign a - statement stating. the building . meets I he State Codes then you ' are . liable if there is a tragedy and you fi find out you did not check the truss of the room , they didn ' t have p the . proper weight structure , then you could be held responsible . r` B . CASOLARA : Who could ? i - IG . TOTMAN : I suppose the Town . Here you are okaying a business in a particular area , there are no health or safety codes involved in that . �1B . CASOLARA : Say hypothetically , because of the trucks or whatever there was II q I an accident with the poeple , across the street , . because we did not i have apublic hearing, would we be liable ? ii G . TOTMAN : No , that would be the truck " driver ' s problem . If that were the case , Bill , you would never . get anything passed . If you look around and if .that is oin to be the case if ii g g you allowed somebody to put a gas station in and somebody drives out of the gas station and !' hits the kid across the road, who wants to build a gas statio0iif ' they would be liable for something like that ? B ': CASOLARA : My .concern would be if a facility was going across the street from my house and there was going to be truck traffic , tractor-t h . trailers going in and out , I. would be concerned,: If somebody across the street had been- running a trucking firm for 2 or 3 years r ,. and suddenly came in for a permit , I would be concerned as an individual . i, a M . CAREY : There are no - more trucks that will be pulling in and 'out of his place IV r IIP PLANNING BOARD - 5- February 18 , 1988 ii j� than pulling in and but of our farm - driveway , There are houses around our If farm . Any farmer has the same situation . You have-2 or 3 trucks a day pulling in and out of the farm . We have a tank truck coming into our driveway every single day, a feed truck , we had a mixer truck there today . 11 It ' s a public highway in front of the farm . Cei TWIGG : How many . tractors aday come in and out . M , CAREY : There are tractors in . and out . I don ' t think you can restrict a somebody from having a business because of too much truckktraffic . G TOTMAN : If we were sitting here with a brand new proposal , a person came in It and said they wanted to start a business that will require truck traffic in a neighborhood area , and it had not been happening before at all , I would be in favor of holding a public hearing . ftWe are talking about something . that has been going on for five years and we have had no complaints . Granted , it should have been done before , there's no question of that . But we, are , not a body to ' reprimand 't somebod , nIIa e a body to{ y y give . approval or disapproval to a proposal . M . kCAREY : , How close is the . closest neighbor ? M . , POST Right across the .-, road- Bill.., Nyour�-concerne'de.t.ffihat ..you 4 want *= to have _ a ;. public: hearing : If` eedt>h younnhat to :', bat isfyta'ny"yquestions you ii might have _ concerning _ the neighbors:.. .. .. . . a G . ITOTMANI I think what Bill is concerned about is not just particularly your , situation but Bill has ' been , spending a l'ot of time - with working on i! the ordinance and as the ordinance appears in general and this happens to be one thing that falls into that category that we have 9 been talking about , is that correct , Bill ? B . I� CASOLARA : I think the purpose . of planning is to plan , and if somebody does something ' and- operates :�under a .; m sdemeanor under the Planning i regulations for ae.�number of years and then the Board says ',okay you have been doing it for a number of years so it is okay , we ' ll j just bypass it . ' If .there is another case of another business that has been operating for years and the Board okays that because they it have been operating for 3 or 4 years , the neighbors should have the right - for input . Your saying since it has been going on for years II and there has been no complaints then it must be okay . M . POST : Do you have some specific concerns , because that is what I ;I here G for is to answeryour�questions . B . CASOLARA : It is. in my area , though it doesn ' t impact on me directly but I don ' t know if the people that live on either side of you are concerned , I know there is a lot of children in the area . I feel I have a responsibility to represent their interests . But as Monica { pointed out , it is a free road , people drive all over it . j C . TWIGG : The trucks won ' t be driving in their yardAand the road is to drive u on and not to play in , most people don ' t let their kids play. in i{ the street anyway . 1! ' i, a is PLANNING BOARD - 6 - February 18v 1988 Pf . B . CASOLARA Isn ' t the issue realloyf/ giving�- the peopleA. the right of have a voice ; isn ' t that the issue . Or is the issuej.ust sitting here f an saying , . they let their kids play in the road and they get hit that ' s their problem . I don ' t think that is the issue . I think the people have the right , through the planning document .- for input . . In � this case it may not be warranted and I hope that it is not a precedent that everytime somebody walks in who has been operating a business for several years that we say , since they have been I� operating a . business it is now okay to do it . p Co ,, TWIGG : I don ' t think that would happen . I think we look each one over individually and then decide . G . 1lTOTMAN : I don ' t want to belabor the,4 point , but I think we have talked as Ik much as we can on this for now . At this point ,_ Mike is asking the i Board what do you want to do with it . C . {jTWIGGs _ I . don ' t think it would bother me if it , was across- .the road from . my house . ' It doesnAt look like it is something that is going to change the neighborhood . There ar already trucks going up and down that road . vi If it was , a - residential area- on a street in town where all there was were residential housing on there and no ! through traffic and then started hav;ingtrucks comeing in , it would a change the activity in the neighborhood . B . liCASOLARA : I don ' t thinktit would have a dramatic impact in ' the neighbor'= Ahood , I have no ' problem with ; that:: I just: want . td .make -vsure , if �I anything , that when people operate "a business outpof .. theit home without a permit , thatk. it is a ' misdemeanor . That over time it does {) not give them the right to say they have always been doing it and f just let it wash through-. -, So . for the ` record I , have no problem with i this proposal . G . ;; TOTMAN : The floor will entertain a motion at this time . !; CECI•L '.TWIGG made the motion the the Planning Board follow the Short SitePlan Review and approve the proposal; of MICHAEL POST , Pleasant Valley Rd . Groton , to operate a business from his home *, Tax Map . No . 36- 1 = 6 . 3 ; MONICA CAREY seconded the motion . h VOTE : . 3 in favor I 1 abstention MOTION CARRIED PROPOSAL by DORIS SALERNO , 216 Old Peruville , Town of Groton for a BED and BREAKFAST , Tax Map . No4 35- 1 - 21 : G . ;TOTMAN : The above proposabc�,was not submitted ten days before the meeting . �h The application is dated February 11 , last Thursday . The proposal is for a Bed and Breakfast on the Old Peruville Rd . , it is a large house , when your coming in off of 34B oW* the left before you j enter Peruville , used to be - the Kratchavil house . In the country �j is �I ff U p PLANNING `BOARD - 7 - February 18 , 1988 I with a big yard around it . If you want * to talk. to her tonight , t and discuss it with her or ask her to come back- to the next meeting . I don ' t think you have a copy of the proposal , so I ' ll pass the one I have around . G . TOTMAN : How many bedrooms are you proposing to make available An this type of operation ? D . ISALERNO : Plan to have 4 people at a .time , 2 rooms . G . 4TOTMAN : Would it bother you if this Board looked it over, decided it was it okay for a bed and breakfast and stated no . more than 4 - people at one time ? ' j DolISALERNOo ' No . u C . TWIGG : What concerns do we have with it ? Parking ? Traffic ? Noise in the fl neighborhood ? Sign ? Go11OTMAN :. If she .is going to put up a sign that is a different procedure . it A lot of Bed and Breakfasts do not put up signs . A lot of people advertise or have someone advertise for them . ' They don ' t . want to make the house look like it is a business so they hire somebody else to do the advertising : They ,- usually only put up a sign for - '! identification purposes . Do SALERNO : If I put up a sign it would be over , the top of the door . S . CAMIN : It would not say ' Bed "and ; Breakfast ' . It would be " just the name of fj the place . G . TOTMAN : Do you want to hold this for a month to discuss it and. talk abouti t ? See if there are any problems ? You •are within your rights to hold up on it and ask questionston it, or you can act on . it tonight . u C . TWIGG : Why would we want to wait ? Do we have a good reason for waiting ? G . TOTMAN : I don ' t have any . questions , but if you , the Board have any . . . . . C . TWIGG : I don ' t . ',:: : : r:- j B . CASOLARA : The main concern would be traffic . I seej: that there would be cars and I know that section of the road is fairlyt, desolate , there I' is no property across the street or nobody right next door , . there is a white farmhouse down the road and it is very close to Rt 34B . The traffic would not be going through Peruville , if so would only be a couple of cars ; there would be no truck traffic ; no additonal i health facilities required ; no hazardous waste materials . . . . . . G . TOTMAN : Any further , questions ? it u . fl U it ;, PLANNING BOARD - 8- February 18 ,, 1988 'IC . . TWIGG : l .::thinkr �we: can and �, - should _= act on this tonight . - r, 'BOARD agreed . CECIL TWIGG . made the motion the Planning Board follow the Short Site Plan review and approve the proposal of DORIS SALERNO for a Bed and Breakfast at 210 Old Peruville Rd . , Town of Groton , Tax Map No . 35- lFI BILLaCASOLARA I econded the motion . s VOTE : All in favor 4 . MOTION CARRIED �I t G TOTMAN .e You all received a -- copy of the agenda in the mail . I9did not notice it because I just assumed Roger Gleason was on there . He called after the January meeting and said he could not make it . He should have been on the February Agenda , it ' s not Roger;Al� s falt he ' s not on there . PROPOSAL for Subdivision by ROGER GLEASON , located on Lick St . Tax Map No . 121 - 1- 21 . 2s ' IF G . ' TOTMAN : At the last meeting we briefly discussed what ' Roger had in mind but Roger was not here to answer some of our question . M . CAREY : Somebody wanted to buy this piece of land ? ' R . GLEASONi Mr . Koekebacker had a transaction started to purchase this lot as an . add on to his lot . He hav had some '.problems and does not wish to continue purchasing the piece of land . Consequently , q y , we ' ve spent some money on it and now have that lot- available , . it is possible that he may yet buy ':it , : he has-. a reasonable time to decide , May I believe . IF At the time I submitted the proposal , . . I • did have ' a possible buyer , WI l since then he has "withdrawn his offer . Since I have money invested • An it , for surveys and such , I wish to have it available if anybody does want to buy it . IF G . TOITMAN : What you are saying is that until sometime in the Spring Koekebacker � , . has the option to buy . R . GLEASON : If somebody comes along in the next month with an offer , Koekebacker has first refusal on the lot .r - G . TOTMANs I think one of the questions was how many ;_ lotsf on this particular parcel have been sold " since the Ordinance went into .effect ? R . GLEASON : On 121 . 1 , if I understand it right , because . of the fact that the road intersects it , breaks it up , there have been 2 , : , xi ' thei southeast quadrant . One parcel down in the corner of the southeast , Old STAge and Clark . t ( reviewed soil map Roger had , Tax. Map 'not available ) . G 11 { C 4 I) „µ PLANNING BOARD - 9- February 18 , 1988 I, I, All of this area is the same tax map number . This parcel is divided by Clark St: . and Old Stage Rd . so they are separate entities as far as subdividing . . a G . TOTMAN : What would be your answer , Roger , offhand relative to this parcel ? R . GLEASON : Ifyou want to take 21 . 1 - 21 . 2 it would be a major subdivision. category . But this part on this southside of Stage Road north of Clark St . west of LickFr; St . has had 2 , excuse me 3 . Koekebacker , y and 2 ' in this field here ( ndicating , map ) N G . 'iTOTMAN : This is also a parcel of land that we agreed on previously if Koekebacker wanted to buy it we agreed to it as a lot and not , . included in any subdivision because ' it was considered an add-on . 'N That has already been agreed upon . What Roger is asking us , is if Koekebacker does, not buy it does that change what we already approved ? N 'R . GLEASON ,* Right . C . TWIGG : I think it has to change , it is another sale of another piece of land . r, M> G . TOTMAN : So now he is- applying for a major subdivision . R . GLEASON : It would be the forth lot , I don�,t know , I ' m not sure . Be CASOLARA : It would make four parcels . R . GLEASON : It would be a minor still , the "next one would make it a major . G . TOTMAN : Do you want to call this a preliminary . sketch presented to the Board , you would -be deciding tonight whether _ to accept this as 'a preliminary sketch , go . to a public. . hearing and .Roger . would provide 9, the Environmental 'Assessment Form and .we ` can. have " theLpublic hearing before. the next meeting . One of the tinge , also , if a major , subdivision go. with the long or short form with environmental impact . Be CASOLARA : This is a rural subdivision arid - we don ' t have to hold a public hearing . R . GLEASON It ' s - not a rural subdivision it is not five acres . Be , CASOLARA : So it is a . minor subdivision . G . TOTMAN : It is my understanding , • we don ' t have the : formal map tonight but we have done this before , if you elect to vote on . it tonight , pro orq, con , you will do it with the provision .tt '. would not be approved until the formal map comes back to be signed . If you . agree to do this the approval would be dated the date he makes the map available to be signed . Any questions or directions ? Be CASOLARA : JII suggest we call this a preliminary meeting and ' wait to see the 'map . n . PLANNING BOARD - 10- February 18 , 1988 iy4 ! G . TOTMAN : ' If you follow what Bill is suggesting you would accept Rogert')s plans as a preliminary . At the ' next meeting he would present the map and you would. approve it or * tej;ect it and , decid.e whether you {I need a public hearing on - it . d ; C . TWIGG : We are talking about ' one lot ? F G . TOTMAN Yes , between Koekebacker and Rice . 'IIIC . TW16G : I see no reason for a public hearing . , , M . POST : I agree with Cecil I see no need for a public hearing . We have looked at it before , if Koekebacker doesn " t " buy it it would be owned by f somebody else . 4 . M . CAREY : I agree with that . BILL CASOLARA made the motion the Board , accept the ' preliminary ' document , review the formal map at the next meeting and not hold a public l hearing on the proposal of ROGER GLEASON , located on Lick . St . . Tax Map NO , 121= 1 - 21 . 2 ; • , MONICA CAREY seconded the motion . VOTE : ALL in favor MOTION CARRIED . ; . . PROPOSAL TO AMEND NORTHLAND SUBDIVISION proposed by ROGER GLEASON located north of Clark St . Ext . and west of Lick St . Town of Groton , Tax Map No , 16- 1 - 18 . 12i G . TOTMAN : We approved . this March 17 , 1987, and you are asking us to revise it ? u R . GLEASON : Yes . G . TOTMAN : Waht do you 'want to change ? u P R . GLEASON : The part , I am talking about is the area about 120 feet north of the parcel that is border by the road . Rood is the 5 acres on the west side of Lick St . The original approval was for approximately 35 acres on the north part of the parcel . � I want to change . it to only l0 acres which would . beFbordering Lick Ste and I would retain the approximately 20 wooded acres in the northwest corner of the approved parcel . G . . TOTMAN : On this parcel , am I correct in saying that you have a 60 foot right a way leading off of Clark St . Ext . ? ° R . GLEASON : Yes , G . TOTMAN : On the Lick St . side you have one parcel that is 850 feet _�and then beyond the Rood property another small about 120 feet ? R . GLEASON : Yes . PLANNING . BOARD `! ! ` February 18 , 1988 IP o , G . TOTMAN : What - I am looking for is not getting any of the • land landlocked . We want to make sure you are making provisions here so that at some point - in the future you do not have landlocked land . R R . GLEASON : T don ' t plan to . G . TOTMAN : ' This is a concern of the . Board . ' M . CAREY : What *kind of land is that ? R . GLEASON : The northwest is all woods . - If you drew a line from the northwest corner of . the Rood lot it would be the- wooded area . G . TOTMAN : So what • are you , proposing now? R . GLEASON : I put_. in a request for a rural land division . G . TOTMAN : What class do we want to call it ? ,Y B . CASOLARA : It ' s marked as a major . G . TOTMAN : •He doesn ' t make that decision. the Board • does . u . C . TWIGG : Why don ' t you make up your mind what you are • going . to do with this property, wouldn ' t that be cheaper if you went over it just one time and divided it ' up . R . GLEASON It depends on what you want me to do for dividing it up . If your talking about . what I did oriothe west of C1ark . St * and north of Stage Rd . you..-,!,re talking about a lot of money . B . . CASOLARA : It seems to me ,. with this piece of land with road frontage on two ; sides and it is slowly and surely being purchased and you will - eventually have. lots along both. roads , that ' s -what it . looks like % it is leading to . It also appears ,there will . be a large chunk of , land left . in the back . I think what Cecil was eluding to is it ; seems to be better to have a long range .plan . rather than on the spot planning., G . TOTMAN : . One of the things -� we' are � concerned about is ' the land "itself ; also you should be concerned with this when you are thinking about spending money making a subdivision here' . and .people are • . going to buy one lot or two depending on how much land" they 'need . It might cost more 41 money to sell a lot in the front and - then yqu`� have the land in the back ; . then you might decide to put another subdivision in the back using the 60 foot right a way then the people with the road frontage might, be against it because they bought their land thinking they a were in a rural neighborhood and they don ' t want a whole bunch of houses around them . Then you are stopped . R . GLEASON : . I hear what you .are saying . To have an- approved subdivib ion you put it down in the assessors office . I then have •a parcel that is subdivided and- it is assessed as a subdivision . The first cost would -be several thousand- dollars for the layout , maybe as much as 12 . PLANNING BOARD - 12 - February 18 , 1988 I don ' t have $ 12 , 000 , so that ' s where that stands . 0 G . TOTMAN : Bear in mind , Roger , if we consider . this as a Rural Subdivision , what you°''re _ looking for , if you come back in and say . you want to sell this parcel over here , you;' re going to -get hit with a major subdivision . Is that the feeling of the Board ' ( Board agrees ) i, R;. GLEASON : If we get that far . . . . GlG TOTMAN : I . just want to `make sure ),wet understand ,each. other. • R '. GLEASON : I understand what you are saying , and I know what possibly is going on ; but still in all , I had that other sale , the , whole 35 acres and that fell through . Actually , I am geeting very close to the. front piece what I ' was going to get for the whole thing . . Now I own the woods and I will keep the woods . In 15 to 20 years there will be another cutting . and it might be worth something , f, p • G 'L TOTMAN : Does the . Board feel comfortable in classifying this as a Rural Subdivision ? C . TWIGG : It meets all the criteria , so it really isn ' t our decision whether it is a Rural or Minor . Be CASOLARA : Are there any lots less than five acres ? G TOTMAN : No . Bs CASOLARA : What about the lots along Clark St . Ext . ? Gz TOTMAN : Those were done before with a Minor . R . GLEASON : I had nothing to do with 2 of the parcels . Go TOTMAN : We are talking about the 39 acres of land , we are dealing with a � ten acre; piece , we have to call it some kind of subdivision . Because some . land has been sold off there it falls into some c•ategor.y of the subdivision . BeCASALORA : Are you saying , if somebody has a piece of land of 100 acres and has a subdivision on one end , comes back and gets another subdivision and on and on , that that ' s okay , you can just keep e'eking away at a piece of property? . Some place you have to stop and look at the s entire parcel . ` G TOTMAN : If you are askin me what ' s . in the book to Y g prevent that from happening , there is . nothing . In some instances it is limited to ' a minor here or there . C . TWIGG : The way these things stand now , the subdivision he done earlier is completely separate from what he is bringing up tonight because we don ' t consider what he done before . N -PLANNING ' BOARD . - 13- February 18 , 1988 G . LTOTMAN : I didn '. t say that , completely . BOXASOLARA : Then you ' re, saying we can ' t look at the parcel , in total ? G . � TOTMAN :, No , I didn ' t say. that . 111 think you are in a . very gray area ;, on where you go from here . As I read the Ordinance , you could almost interpret it anyway you wanted to . You could say ; ' you have . a - _` Minor down here already ., you have had a Minor on this parcel and a Minor is up to 5 lots . Now„ you are . planning on az- majgr ' and. you can determine " it that way. , I think you can determine it as . a rule . I think it is a gray area on how • you -do - it .: ' I think if you want to get into all the technicalities- of the law , you could almost , technically and legally say that this is a Major Subdivision because he ' s gone to five : R R . GLEASON : Is it over five or Up-� to five ? Be CASOLARA : You can do five . Re GLEASON : Then after that it ' s - a Major? Be CASOLARA : Three to five for a Minor . u . R . GLEASON : The 6th one -triggers ,tit . , We are at 5 not 6 now , so it does not trigger it G . TOTMAN.: If that ' s the case. this would be a Minor . ik R . GLEASON : The other thing is to treat it simply as a modification of an Already approved subdivision , which is what I ' m really requesting . ;i G . TOTMAN : That ' s a possibility . it • • Be CASOLARA : It is my feeling the Board already approved a 35 acre .piece of property for the purpose of building a home and now he comes back in and says I ' m not selling - 35 , I am only selling 10 , . I don ' t under- stand the . problem . G . TOTMAN : What. you can do , you can say -' that on .Mirch 17 , 1987 the Board approved a parcel of land for sale for Roger , the' - sal4did .not go through and now -he is coming back and telling the ' Board he has a sale of a portion ' i of, the land and he is retaining .part .of .the . land , .and• do we agree , as a matter of record , that the , Board accepts .,the modification of . I� the previously passed subdivision , with the same road frontage; and 'M accept his revision . BILL 'CASOLARAtmade the motion the Board accept the modiffiications presented by ROGER GLEASON • on parcel of land located on Lick St . and Clark St . Ext . , Tax Map No . 101- 18•912 that was originally approved March 17 , 19879 seconded by CECIL-, TWIGG : VOTE All in favor MOTION CARRIED . u • 1� PLANNING . BOARD - 14- February 18 , 1988 PROPOSED SUBDIVISION by ROGER GLEASON for MORTON FARMLAND located west * of Lick �St , and north of Old STage Rd . Tax Map No . 121 -1 -21 . 2 : .. I G . TOTMAN : This is a preliminary . Site Plan Review for . only one parcel of land but it will have to be a Major Subdivision because he has already : sold . over 6 parcels of land - an this Tax Map , R . GLEASON : The Village . has not determined yet where a water line is through the area . The way it goes across the field makes it very difficult - to - put more than one house in there . , M . POST : . What - is the concern about the water main? R . GLEASON : You can ' t build a house within a certain distance of the water main . The way it runs would be very difficult to put , I couldn ' t . divide it up and further because of - the - water line . What the proposal islis . he is going to buy ' the land and use about an acre and lease the ' .rest back to me for farming . B . . CA30LARAs What does it come out size wise ? R . GLEASON : About 5 acrest, for,$ one , proposal , the other - is T acres . One is 400 x 545 and the other ' is 300 x 727 , they would both be 5 acre lots. . It would be a Major Subdivision except I request you don 't apply all . the requirements : of a . Major Subdivision . j� . G . TOTMAN : Everybody has read the rules and regulations of. a Major Subdivision . so we know what the impact is here . You haver-looked over the chart and know what .you can and cannot5irequest•.•fr0m the developer . . We have decided it . is a Major by the nature of the number of lots previously 14 sold off , the parcel so it falls within that category . That being decided if tells you in ' the book • that '. first of all you can ' t accept , pass or approve - At at the preliminary sketch meeting ; but there are cextain things that you can or cannot request from the divider `from that point on . The Board can have another meeting and have, him-g bring -the proper maps showing exactly where they are , he has to have an Environmental Impact Statement . Submitting all those , we can decide tonight to have a public hearing at the, next meeting and after the public hearing we can either vote to - accept or reject it . or , it i! doesn ' t have . to be at' that meeting , we have 45 days after the hearing to make a decision . We might be ' able _ to say� lthese are possible ' . hand we can say we would like , some . 'mod_ififcatons on the proposal , or you can pass it , as presented at the public hearing . C1 TWIGG : A Major Subdivision requires , a ,public, hearing ? G . . TOTMAN : Yes , that ' s automatic . What .you can' do at 'this meeting is accept this 1 as ' a preliminary sketch , , have Roger go back and do his homework and come back with the .. right . things at the . public 'hearing , R . GLEASON : If you - look at 1the application I request Ythat you modify the requirements for a Major Subdivision . There will be no streets , no utilities , no all the other things . II` it PLANNING BORD - 15- February 18 , 1988 G . TOTMAN : . If you followed what I- was saying .that is what Ilwas saying . If there are no further questions we ' ll entertain a motion . C'ECIL TWIGG made the motion the Board accept the preliminary sketch for a Major Subdivision presented by ROGER GLEASON for TAx Map No . 121- 1 - 21 . 2 known as MORTON .FARMLAND and set a public hearing for Thursday , March 17 , 1988 where Roger will present the Subdivision requirements, the Environmental Impact Statement , and the formal map of his proposal ; MICHAEL POST- seconded the motion : _ . VOTE _ All In favor MOTION CARRIED It Re ,GLEASON : What exactly , do you want me to have for the next meeting ? G . TOTMANs I think you have been told . to have the Environmental Impace Statement , 'i you should have the map that the . Board is going to sign before the meeting so they .know what they are looking at . 6 Be CASOLARA : I would like to see the final plat for approval,&i1before we have the hearing . The Board has 45 days after submission to hold a hearing . We have to _ :.approve it before we have the hearing or we don ' t have the opportunity for input or revisions . Say there is . something we found particularly disturbing and that we would like to change , we have . abdicated our ability to . change , we would have to change it 'at the - public hearing . Youcan ' t have a public hearing and then change ' it afterwards . We should see the final plat before the public hearing . R . GLEASON : I have ' no problem with apublic hearing in April . G . TOTMAN : What is being proposed now is the Board take time to look at the plans of what Roger is presenting , that it would be better to hold the 6 public hexing in April rather than March to give the Board time - to . u look over before the public hearing and if any changes can request them . CECIL TWIGG made the motion to revise ; the previous motion that the . Board accept the preliminary . sketch for a Major Subdivision presented by ROGER GLEASON for Tax 'iMap No . 121 = 1 - 21 . 2 known as MORTON FARMLAND and set a public hearing for Thursday . April 21 , 1988 at 8 : 00 p . me and that Roger_�p.resent to the Board at . the March 17 , 1988 ' meeting the final plat £nd thel-.'Environmental Impact Statement for the . Board ' s review ; MICHAEL POST seconded the motion : VOTE : ' All in favor MOTION CARRIED ` G . TOTMANi To make it clear ' whaf we have just done , Roger presented a proposal ' to the Board tonight , a �preliminary plan , - the Board accepted what ',' he gave us tonight . .as a sketch plan : . We agreed to go forward as 1llong as Roger brings the information ' to the March meeting , submitted !before the March meeting for preview by the Board so the Board can "decide whether it ' agrees :with - the proposal or - ;wishes changes to be made . Then a public - hearing will be set for the April meeting . u The Board agrees , Roger understands . fl • fi ' �II { li PLANNING BOARD - 16- February 18 , 1988 !1 • CHANGES TO THE ORDINANCE : G . TOTMAN : I propose two things . You - got in the . mail the things that were talked 1 about in ` the past with regards to changes in the Ordinance . I would like a formal motion of approval of what has been done up to N this point . What we have done is already in the previous minutes : If you want to do that , there are many , many hours of work yet to do on this thing . What I propose to do , from - past experience , the majority of people on boards would rather have .a committe from the -"board ' work on proposals , then present it to the board on what they have done and have the board pass on it . I am not against the whole board sitting here night after night working on it but if it the board feels that they would rather do it on a committee system , appoint one or two people to meet , then they present to the Board 4 what they have done . If. you want to have special meetings , we could 4 do it that way too . ','. C . TWIGG : I think you have a good idea . 1 M . CAREY : I do to.. a , . RC . TWIGG : I think we should have small - committees working on - the Ordinance . 'Board agrees with that concept . If G'zs:.a TOTMAN : Any volunteers ? C . TWIGG : If you don ' t get volunteers , you .should pick someone . it B1? CASOLARA : We could - have two . committees' working on different parts of the Ordinance .. - There is a . lot . of work to be done . Went we met we made the . decision -to get away from the . facility �classif cAtion-- and ` gor E Strictly actvty: v`' The work . ' facility ' is interlaced through this f document , I - came across AA. dotens of times. : All those references have to be taken out . Id G `, TOTMAN : If you look at it from the zoning officer ' s standpoint , he is out there trying to figure whether it is a facility �,, or land use or what . If. he does characterize it as a particular one , then he looks -back to see what is allowed where , sometimes it is allowed in one area andtnot another , and it is essentially the same thing . What Bill is saying is to make it clear , so when you make a decision and it g falls under a certain category B . kCASOLARA : That is something an- individual can do . Another example an j; individual can do , for instance take • .site approval ', we • talked It II about s, whole bunch of things . . As you go through the document you it find something in it , like Section 134 . If we pass on it and -then go through the- document and ' ifnd it put another way . We need to have the: individual make sure -it ' s not some place else and delete it from there . G . TOTMAN : Somebody could check the document for repetitions . B . CASOLARA : For instance ° the word . ' facil,ity ' ; somebody needs _to go through p y 41 , l PLANNING BOARD - 17 - February 189 1988 the document and find the work facility soothe lava can be modified . M. POST : Has anything more been done with putting this on a word processor ? G . TOTMAN : I have . not gotten a hold of Gary Evans . He called me two or three I. times and I haven ' t been there , we have not made connections . If l have to . -I will go to Ithaca . What would be better is to take somebody who understands computers call Gary and have him go over it . B . . CASOLARA : I would need to know what he has . Bi11IICasolara and George Totman set Monday , February 29 for a meeting with Gary Evans . M . POST : What we�: would -need to know is what software it is on . G . TOTMAN : Does anyone want to volunteer up front to be on the committee to work . on what has been started ? it B . .CASOLARA : I ' ll continue on the committee . G . TOTMAN : Either I or Gary Wood should be present while doing it . W Bill and I and Gary meet and present it back to a meeting and / or if we meet !l and come up with typed information and have one or two people go over it before the next meeting , ` go through the ordinance and pull the ',-La information out of it . You would follow through what the committe u has done . Board agreed that a second . committee would go through the Ordinance with the information the first committee puts together to pull information together . n Gary; Wdod arrived and George . Totman brought him up to date what had been done . G, • TOTMAN : We approved the Bed and Breakfast tonight of Salerno ' s on Old Peruville ' Rd . . You saw that application . pass by you very quickly . We approved Roger ' s one subdivision where the land was previously if okayed for Koekebacker to buy with the tentative approve if he brings back the proper paperwork for our signature. at the next meeting . If he doesn ' t change anything , we ' ll pass that . He has another it parcel of land proposing for subdivision that we had previously passed on the 17th of March , 1987 , for 35 acres and now he wants y to sell only a third or 10 acres with the same road frontage . We approved the modifications of the previous subdivision . He has . i,I . one parcel - of land on another one but by selling that one parcel f, . it takes him over six Tots on that . particular parcel and he has a Major Subdivision . What we did on that particular one was we accepted his preliminary information to us and told .him to come » back to the next meeting with the final plat , with the right ( environmental assessment form , we would look it over at the next . 4meeting to see. if it meets our approval then hold a public hearing in p, April . • II ' PLANNING BOARD = 18- 'February 18 , 1988 In regards to what we ' re doing with the proposal for the changes in the the Ordinance we decided to go with- smal•1 committee� of Bill , you . and : me , we willr_;make proposedf��suggestionsv.to- changes in the Ordinance . !I We will meet , the following . Monday Bill . wil' 1 have what we did into the Town Clerk office . I ' ll make copies of it and call Mike . and ° he will get together with the others and look ' at what we have done and make sure what we are suggesting to change are removed from th Ordinance . In the meantime ' I ' m going _to arrange a meeting with - Gary Evans to go over the thing . .: . , ,. 1i We approved Mike ' s Site Plan Review , G ' WOOD : So I have two special permits to . issue . Iw G TOTMAN : And incidentally , Mrs . Salerno agreed to be limited. to 4 people i on :her permit . Gel' WOOD : The reason IYrbirought that up before is that if youkhave more than 3i . 4 unrelated people in ahome it changes the classification to a i multiple dwelling . G : TOTMANr In reference .to the seminars in New York this last weekend I have tentatively . made contact with the New York State Planning Federation to Out on a sixhour• course in our area as to the aspects of planning and zoning for local planners . They have tentatively agreed to come up here on a 2 night basis , possibly the middle or last - part of April . . They are going to be calling me or sending me information on the exact dates . K. POST : I think it js a good idea . GO TOTMAN : I hate to ' have them come up and not get a good turn out , so we ' ll include the Town and Village of Groton , Dryden , Freeville �! and Lansing: . I did get another request from another town that if we did * that they could come also . The thing I feel very strongly aobut is when you- are doing it this way all the questions and jj answers will be coming from rural , countryside people . i C, . TWIGG : That was one of the problems with the - meetings in " New York was ' they were dominated by the big. metropolitan areas . G . TOTMAN : One good . thing is you get fromualistening to them is you see what u their problems are and when - you are - doing something you can plan E for it , Be CASOLARA : I was at the. Town Board meeting last week and Teresa made the point of saying there - 3were some things that needed to be incorporated f! in the changes to :the Ordinance document . She had a. reference to adocument about '. 'motor vehicle repair shops that had been passed and never incorporated into the document , it was dated 1984 or something . According to what she was. telling the Board members was there was a document on the books but .not in the manual . Do you know what . E she was ' referring to ? . j li PLANNING BOARD - 19 - February 18 , 1988 I, Town G . TOTMAN : I , think basically what she was trying to say was that -the / Board passed some things and this document has never been rewritten to j include them and make . it up ,to date . Be CASOLARA : Do we have these so we can incorporate them into the document i with . our changes ? G . WOOD : There are two parts to that . Before the current land use Flaw was I passed there .was a Motor Vehicle. Repair Shop Law as part of the original izoningiliaw:. When , the zoning law was rewritten those things were not incorporated into it . Secondly , I discovered that some �E where along the line the Town board passed a . resolution saying that If the Zoning Officer shall enforce the old requirements of the Motor Vehicle. Repair, Shop Law even though` it was not in the current {p zoning law which I did not know about until 2 weeks ago . They would like to have me not renew Mr . Morsels Motor - Vehicle Repair Shop j! because he .no longer has a New York State Vehicle Repair License that having been a requirement of the previous law , that ' s how that came up . Be CASOLARA : The document she has was dated 19844and Ilsee this one is dated 198a , whatever document she had is after this one . G . WOOD : I think that is the resolution there . G . TOTMAN ; This fellow had a duly licensed repair shop and he kept it neat 4 and clean . He has sort of ceased operations but he wants to keep renewing his license with the Town in case he wants to do the repair shop again .- In the process he has let ' his State license lapse . What he wants to do is keep his option open for himself j so if he decides he wants to do it again he still has ' the. license ii with the Town and he only has to apply for the State license . {P His Town license is not legal without the State license . In the. meantime he has a legal Town license if . he gets a State license . Be CASOLARA : Well , . whatever documents they have we should get them and incorporate them into this one . Bill Casolara made the motion the meeting be adjourned , Monica Carey seconded the motion and the meeting was adjourned . . The next regular meeting of the Pla r,nning Board will be held Thursday , March 17 , 1988 at 8 : 00 P . M . �i 1( {E jf Respectfully submitted . Y 3 ' { Marga et A . Palmer