HomeMy WebLinkAbout1987-09-15 GLENN H . MUNSON & SON , AUCTIONEERS
448 Locke Road ( Rt . 38 ) P . O . Box 127
Groton , New York 13073
Phone ( 607 ) - 898 - 3739 or ( 315 ) - 497 - 1331
September 15 , 1987
Town i f Gr' t it lzln Planning Br.lard
Conger B � �_ilevard
Grrlzltori , New Y �Drk. 130 723
Dear Bl_iard Members Q
Encli.-Ised ar- e the dimensions cif the Robert 8 Margaret M . Kluge Real
Estate Auct i p:jr, pr ,:, p fsa 1 fo rr the pr-topert y Itzicated at 690 Clark Street
Extension , Grmiziti:in , New Yiz trrk . The auct it.-In was held .-in Friday , Septer,iber� 4 ,
198 7 .
Tax _ Map
- # 17 .
PARCEL # 1 - C r, sists 11 .f the 4 BR h me , 18 ' x i ' r*1 rt n building & large
s '� r' V b • t 'r' Y'I with i`slppl'' , ximately v rAcr' es Rli� and. fr !=fnt - ue rf
Clark Str' ee4cpp ' Cxlfat ? ly Cty � 1 , X ' ns PARCEL # 2 - C ; r, sists I Rppr� i_txir,lateiv 1E:, acres all t i 1 lable with r _ ad
fr ,Dritage c of appr 'Dximr -Ately 4 Street Exter, si _tr, .
PARCEL # 3 - Consists of apprczlxiriiatel -y 9 acres with road fry ir, tage of
appre xinlatel. y 51C.) ' j:in Clar <. 5' ree Extension & 569 . 5 ' or,
Salt Rr.lad .
PARCEL # 4 - Cl.-Insists of approx irnately 9 acres with rpad fry Dntage or'
appr _tximately 569 . J ' on Sait Rtzia =.
( PINK ) - Shows the section
44 Acre �� n _` f land previc� ,_! s1y s ��� 1d by Kluge to12 _ bcrts wi pp 1::1xirnately 700 ' of r goad fr [Dr, tage on Cla -rk Slur, e
E_: x t e r, s i I_[ n „
The 4 parcels that were offered at auction were sold to� individual
buyers . This results in the need f111 -t a five parcel sub -- divisi _ n . ( This
includes the 44 acre tract sl::lld tcI Rober� ts ) .
r*'ir . Lgruce Davis Ir, has been contrracted to perf ,_Wr,l a sure vey of the
complete Tax Map Parcel with the i rid ividual parcels being identified .
t ir,ie and clDr, sider^ at i _ir, in this rnatter is appreciated .
What we are requesting tonight is appri_1val 1f the subdivisi 'Dr, pr-• Clp ',Dsal
with the under, standing that a copy of the cizimpreted sur-tvey will be pr� ,_lvided "CC,
you fc.W yc_"_tr recl::lyds and a copy to be filed with the Ccl ,_inty , once it has been
ccnnnp1eted .
Page
Please feel free tci ccintact me if yr.O( U shy luld have any quest is lns . y
time in this matter is appreciatecl .
spectf- u11 ,
Rciber, t F • Wa 1 p .i '1 e
Real Estate Manag r
TOWN OF GROTON
PLANNING BOARD
Tuesday , September 15 , 1987 , 8 : 15 p . m .
BOARD ( *present ) PULBIC present
G . Totman* , Chairman Gary Wood , Zoning Enforcement
M . Post* , Vice Chairman Officer , Town of Groton
N . Ostrander , Core Secretary Roger Gleason
C . Twigg Glenn Munson
M . Carey*
V . Rankin*
Be Casolara
G . TOTMAN , Chairman opened the Planning Board meeting at 8 : 15 p . m . The,Ili.
minutes of the previous ; meeting , August 18 , 1987 , were read and approved on
motion of M . CAREY and seconded by V . RANKIN .
PROPOSED MAJOR SUBDIVISION at the northeast corner of Clark St . Ext . and Old
Stage Rd * submitted by Roger Gleason , Tax Map No . 121 - 1 - 21 . 2 :
( Motion made after closing of a public hearing held this date at 8 : 00 p . m . )
M . POST made the motion the Planning Board approve the proposed major
subdivision presented by ROGER GLEASON for the northeast corner of Clark St .
Ext . and 101d Stage Rd . consisting of approximately 20 acres per the survey
map presented to the Board , Tax Map No . 1214 -21 . 2 ; M . CAREY seconded the
motion .
VOTE : All in favor
Motion carried
PROPOSED MINOR SUBDIVISION proposed by ROGER GLEASON located at the southeast
corner of Old Stage Rd . and Clark St . Ext * in the Town of Groton , Tax Map
No . 1214 - 21 . 2 :
R . GLEASON You see by the map ( copies � g ven tokthe.° Board members ) this
is in the southeast corner of Old STage Rd . and Clark St . Ext .
and consists of 2 parcels , one of 2 . 6 acres and one of 9 . 5 acres .
The 9 . 5 acres - is a sale within the family . There is a grove
situated in the northeast corner of the 9 . 5 acres and that is
where they propose to locate a mobile home . It will not be
visible from the road .
G . TOTMAN : This sketch map has no dimensions on it . On the 9 . 5 acres what
is the road frontage ? Is the same person going to own all of
that ?
R . GLEASON : " c <- Qne person will own the 9 . 5 acres . There will be two owners
for the two lots . There is a scale of 1 inch equals 100 feet .
There is something like 500 feet for the 92 acres .
PLANNING BOARD - 2 - September 15 , 1987
G . TOTMAN : That ' s included in the trailer lot ?
R . GLEASON : The trailer will be on the 9 . 5 acre . Maybe you are getting
confused with that little dot . I -:.- simply indicated the grove
of trees with that .
G . TOTMAN : What I am saying is , someone is going to live in that trailer ,
right?
R . GLEASON : Yes .
G . TOTMAN : So you are going to have two dwellings on the 9 . 5 .
R . GLEASON : No , only one dwelling on the 92 acres .
G . TOTMAN : Then they will have to come in and get a permit for the trailer .
R . GLEASON : Yes , but that won ' t happen until next year .
G . TOTMAN : What we are concerned with now is the land and not the trailer .
R . GLEASON : Originally Mr . Bennet , adjoining landowner , was going to buy
a��Rparcel :around his land . We had it all set up for him to get
the 92 acres then he• decided he did not want to , he did not
feel he could afford to buy the whole thing , so we divided it
UP *
V . RANKIN : This is into 3 parcels then?
R . GLEASON : No , two parcels ; 92 acres and 2 . 6 acres . Tax Map 12 . 1 is 2 . 9
acres sold to Bennetts previously .
G . TOTMAN : What you are saying then is Parcel No . 2 is going to have over
500 foot of road frontage and Parcel No . 1 will have about 300
foot of road frontage on Old Stage Rd .
R . GLEASON : Parcel No . 1 will have approximately 500 feet on Old Stage Rd .
and Parcel No . 2 will have 500 feet .
G . TOTMAN : Then this is not to scale .
R . GLEASON ! ( measuring with tape : 1 in . = 9100 feet ) 500 feet frontage for
Parcel No . 1 and 300 feet frontage for Parcel No . 2 - on Old
Stage Rd .
G . WOOD : If that is only 500 feet then that 9 . 5 acres can only be re - sub-
divided once more .
R . GLEASON : The other would be hard to subdivide with 200 feet on Clark St .
Ext ,
G . TOTMAN : , You have 400 foot frontage on Old Stage Rd . and 200 foot on
Clark St .
PLANNING BOARD -3- September 15 , 1987
G . WOOD : The point is neither of those lots can be divided more than one
more time .
G . TOTMAN9 If they divide Parcel No . 1 again it will be 200 x 200 .
G . WOOD : Unless the final survey comes out differently , as he says .
An acre is 208 x 208 .
R . GLEASON : With the topography of the land it would not be feasible for
more than one house on the corner parcel ,: unless there is
municipal sewer .
G . TOTMAN : We will hear a motion now for whether to proceed with long form
and have a public hearing or go through the short form and waive
the public hearing:
V . RANKIN : I see no reason for the long form .
G . TOTMAN : Most of the same land owners are involved as with the previous
proposal and according to Colleen Pierson , Town Clerk , all owners
were notified of tonight ' s public hearing and none appeared .
V . RANKIN made the motion the Planning Board proceed with the short
form and waive a public hearing in the proposal for a minor subdivision proposed
by ROGER GLEASON located at the southeast corner of Old Stage Rd . and Clark St .
Ext . Tax Map , No . 121 - 1 -21 . 2 ; M . CAREY seconded the motion .
VOTE : All in favor
Motion carried
M . CAREY made the motion the Planning Bard approve the proposed Minor
Subdivision presented by ROGER GLEASON located at the southeast corner of Old
Stage Rd . and Clark St . Ext . consisting of approximately 13 acres , Tax Map
No . 1214 -21 . 2 ; V . RANKIN seconded the motion .
DISCUSSION :
M . POST : It seems like , Roger , you are turning around and'!-:doinga good
job with the lots out there . You have been , in my personal
opinion , more than generous about the $60 , 000 homes and all that
kind of stuff . I-! ` think if I were in your position I wouldn ' t
have boxed myself in quite that much . You are doing a good job
with this development and now an opportunity has come along to
put a mobile home on the property and even though there is a
grove of trees there , it seems to violate the whole spirit and
the idea of this development . I , m sure you have your reasons
for that but you are opening the door just a little crack now
by compromising on this one I have to wonder about the whole
development , if it won ' t -ibe compromised and turn into one of
these things that we don ' t want to see in this Town . These
are my personal opinions , and they are not directed to you ,
it is just my feeling about the development because I felt
we were doing some really good things here .
PLANNING BOARD -4- September 15 , 1987
G . TOTMAN : Roger , you do understand that you have put into the application ,
you have made it a matter of record in the minutes that you are
going to have the deeds made for all these other parcels that
no trailers are allowed ?
R . GLEASON ,* Right .
G . TOTMAN : Except for that one lot .
R . GLEASON : The reason for that is that they have a trailer on another lot ,
at the present time , and they don ' t feel at the present time they
can afford to put in a house . They are going to put it on a
foundation and it will be , their plans are that it will end up
looking like a house . What ' ll I do ?
M . POST : Those are your personal decisions but it . . . . .
R . GLEASON : As aa;matter of fact I talked to Gary about it . The reason I
decided to go with it is it will not be visible from the road .
Consequently , I thought I could live with it .
M . POST : Roger , if I , as an individual was looking for a home site 'An
the Town of Groton and buy a piece of property and spend in the
excess of $60 , 000 , I ' m not sure I would want to build in that
kind of environment .
R . GLEASON : You may be right , although there is a trailer on the corner at
the present time .
G . TOTMAN : Michael , looking at it in both ways , in most of the rest of the
Town of Groton there isn ' t anyting saying that a house trailer
can ' t be put up across the road . In this particular area where
he is selling multiple lots he is putting restrictions in the
deeds ; the rest of the lots do have the benefit of saying there
is not going to be any more than that one trailer in there .
There isn ' t anything like that in rest of the Town of Groton as
far as I know .
R . GLEASON : I1would like to add that this land , will not be likely , either
the one on the north side of the road or the one here , the nine
acres on the south side of Old Stage Rd . , is not likely to hve
anything done for a minimum of five years and probably ten years
because I have a lease back for farm use . It is highly unlikely
that any houses will be built easterly other than maybe 3 houses
and the trailer in the whole area , for at least five years and
probably ten . That is the way it is for now .
No further questions or discussion . VOTE : 3 for
1 opposed
Motion carried
PLANNING BOARD -5- September 15 , 1987
PROPOSED RURAL AG SUBDIVISION proposed by ROGER GLEASON located in the north-
west corner of the intersection of Lick St . and Old Stage Rd . , Town of Groton ,
Tax Map No . 16- 1 - 18 . 12 :
R . GLEASON : This is comprised of 35 acres . Two lots were sold off previously .
I ' m putting it in as a Rural Subdivision . You might want to do
dome counting , I was not sure .
M . CAREY : Didn ' t you have five lots out of it when you put those 2 in
before ?
R . GLEASON : I m not sure . This one I am not sure about , `J8 . 11 was sold by
Mr . MacMasters to my son .
G . TOTMAN : That would not be included .
R . GLEASON : That was sold before I bought the property so that first division
was his . 18 . 2 is owned by MacMasters himself . Excuse me .
Mr . MacMasters " originally sold - to . Mr : Zubal and retained 18 . 2 .
I bought from Mr . Zubal and my son,=bought 18 . 11 from Mr . Zubal .
G . TOTMAN : We are talking about from the time you bought it .
R . GLEASON : 56 : 18 . 13 and this one in the southwest corner of 5 acres and the
one marked Rood of 5 acres are 2 . So wilthkitheb 35 acres that makes
3 .
M . CAREY : The Rood frontage is on Licko St . ?
R . GLEASON : Yes , about 4 to 500 feet .
M . CAREY : How come you decided to keep out these 5 acres ( referring to
area in the north ) ?
R . GLEASON : He was going to buy it then he decided he did not have enough
money .
M . POST : So that 5 acres is a parcel .
R . GLEASON : It remains as part of mine .
G . TOTMAN : You can go up to four parcels in a rural as long as 5 acres .
R . GLEASON : YOu already had one that was less than five and that was
originally a minor .
M . POST : So this is not a new five acre parcel , Roger?
R . GLEASON : No this will remain as part of the original parcel so there
shouldn ' t be a line shown on the map .
M . POST : So how may new parcels are you creating as a result of this ?
PLANNING BOARD -6- September 15 , 1987
R . GLEASON : There is the 35 acres and one additional parcel .
M . POST : What ' s left is part of the 35 acres ?
R . GLEASON : Up until I actually submitted it he wasn ' t sure what he was
going to do , :whether he was going for the whole thing . , that
is why I submitted it this way,;. As of now the 5 acres will
remain with the original parcel .
V . RANKIN : This 35 acres is mostly woods ?
R . GLEASON : Yes , 5 acres maybe 6 acres of level land .
G . TOTMAN : Are there any reservations of making this a rural subdivision?
M . CAREY : Does this require a public hearing?
G . TOTMAN : Not if classified as a rural subdivision .
M . POST : I have no problems with it .
M . CAREY : z•. "r . qNo "problems .
V . RANKIN : What about the rest of the road frontage ? on Lick St ?
R . GLEASON : At this point I have no thoughts on it or plans for it .
V . RANKIN : I have no more questions .
M . POST made the motion the Planning Board approve the application for
a Rural Subdivision presented by ROGER GLEASON located in the northwest corner
of the intersection of Lick St . and Old STage Rd . , Town of Groton , Tax Map
No . 16- 1 - 18 . 12 ; V . RANKIN seconded the motion .
VOTE : All in favor
Motion carried
PROPOSED SUBDIVISION of ROBERT KLUGE propertyxlocated on northeast corner
of the intersection of Clark St . Ext , and Salt Rd . presented by Munson Realty
Tax Map No . 16- 1 - 26 . 1 :
G . MUNSON : With the application , everything relates to the map presented
at the August , 1987 meeting . I sent out a follow up letter late
last month with the road frontages . At that time we had
approximate acreages when we first submitted the plan to you .
At the auction that was held on September 4 , those parcels
were sold to individuals buyers . So we have 4 parcels that
Munson Realty sold plus , Kluge himself sold 44 acres previous
to our sale . So out of this tax map number we now have
5 parcels . So what we have to do is apply for a 5 parcel
subdivision including the previously sold lot .
PLANNING BOARD - 7- September 15 , 1987
G . TOTMAN : Which makes it a major subdivision .
G . MUNSON : We weren ' t sure when we first applied whether it would be a
rural ag or a major . It depended on the sale at the auction .
G . TOTMANsI f ' it goes to a major that means a public hearing .
G . MUNSON : There is no problem with us there . We just wanted to keep you
apprised of what we are doing and to see what we have to do
in order to follow the proper ;procedures .
G . TOTMAN : Let me ask you a question . If this Board agrees with the
preliminary plan that you now have submitted and they find its
is okay in their judgment to submit to the public for a final
subdivision , are you prepared to go that route ?
G . MUNSON : Sure , we have already ordered the survey of the property which
will show five individual lots on the one map . Bruce Davidson
from Cortland is doing the field work . Mr . Mack is supposed
to be getting to him the Abstract of Title so that he can get
the map drawn up ; but it has been ordered . We will be willing
as soon as we get the preliminary with the exact measurements
on it from him to forward it right on to you .
V . RANKIN : You have already auctioned it ?
G . MUNSON : The auction was September 4 .
V . RANKIN : So then these parcels are sold this way ?
G . MUNSON : These parcels are sold but in the contract of the sale it is
all sold subject to the approval of the Town of Groton Planning
Board ' s approval of the subdivision proposal . So we protected
both ourselves and Mr . Kluge and the purchasers of the parcels .
We are working for Mr . Kluge so as a service to him we took care
of his deal with Roberts . We just incorporated it with our
subdivision proposal . Otherwise we �would only be here asking
for 4 . We would be a rural subdivision for the part that WE
actually handled .
G . TOTMAN : Do you feel confortable in accepting this as a preliminary plat
and setting up here in front of the public and presenting it
to them as a major subdivision?
M . POST : I do , it seems quite straight forward .
V . RANKIN made the motion the Planning Board approve the preliminary
plat of the ROBERT KLUGE major subdivision located at the northeast corner
of Clark St . Ext . and Salt Rd . intersection Tax Map No . 16- 1 -26- 1 ; M . POST
seconded the motion .
VOTE : All in favor
Motion carried
PLANNING BOARD - 8- September 15 , 1987
Discussion among the Planning Board members concerning the changing of the
regular monthly meeting date and a date for the public hearing on the Kluge
subdivision . It was decided to change the regular monthly meeting of the
Planning Board to the4THIRD THURSDAY OF THE MONTH beginning with the October ,
1987 meeting .
The public hearing for the KLUGE MAJOR SUBDIVISION PROPOSAL was set for
Thursday , October 1 , 1987 at 8 : 00 p . m .
ELEONOR
PROPOSED MINOR .YSUBDIVISION presented by PHILIP MUNSON/on property located
at 1364 Sovocool Hill Rd . , Town of Groton , Tax Map No . 33 - 1 - 1
G . TOTMAN : At the July meetingi on the presentation by Phil pnMunson on
the subdivision proposal we were questioning about the strip
of land in the back and .: road frontage . He has resubmitted his
proposal with each lot a little over an acre of land , with
200 foot road frontage and they are all exactly the same size .
The reason headid not come to the August meeting , according to
him , was my fault . According to him he understood that as long
as he had the proposal submitted he did not have to be here for
the vote . He thought we could move on it without him being here
because we knew just what he wanted because we had discussed it
with him before . Which is probably true , but I did not have the
same impression that he did so it was not acted upon at the last
meeting .
V . RANKIN : Is there any scale here ? Why he is keeping this back stretch is
a question , it is no good to him it would be a whole lot better
off for these people . There isn ' t much of anything back there
but swamp .
G . TOTMAN : They are all legal size lots .
G . WOOD : That first one might not be , the first of the 200 x 220 lots .
Because of the creek you may not be able to fit the 150 foot
circle for the septic in there .
G . TOTMAN : According to him he has checked with the Health Department and
they agree with the way he is going to move the creek to fit
it in there .
V . RANKIN : There "should be no problem in moving the creek it has been moved
before . It is manmade the Town put it in there for drainage .
G . TOTMAN : Gary can correct me if I am wrong , but at this particular point
we are not making a motion whether there are going to be trailers
there or whatever . ,-,We are making the motion on whether the land
that he is subdividing is legal .
V . RANKIN made the motion the Planning Board procede with the short form
and waive a public hearing on the proposed minor subdivision of ELEONOR MUNSON ,
1364 Sovocool Hill Rd . Tax Map No . 33 - 1 - 1 ; M . CAREY seconded the motion
VOTE : All in favor
Motion carried
PLANNING BOARD - 9. September 15 , 1987
M : CAREY : Gary , is there some reason we should not accept it ?
G . WOOD : I don ' t see any .
M . CAREY made the motion the Planning Board approve the the Minor Subdivision
proposed by ELEONOR MUNSON at 1364 Sovocool Hill Rd . , Town of Groton , Tax Map
No . 33 - 1 - 1 ; M . POST seconded the motion .
VOTE : All in favoe
Motion carried
G . WOOD : I was asked by HERB ADAMSof Clark St . Ext . how he could give
a piece of property to his daughter so that she could put a home
on the property . The property is presently 210 foot frontage , 633 ft . dp
on Clark St . Ext . I said you can ' t do that . Two or three phone
calls later he came up with this proposal which I ' m passing on
to you without comment at the moment . That is to crease a public
road 60 foot =dend 635 feet d and create 2 legal lotsX�a� a&e_
w 4- r 200 fee4�ge an&"115 feet frontage on the new
public street .
G . TOTMAN : This public road he is talking about , is he going to build it
g g
to Town specifications ?
G . WOOD : That would be a condition of approval unless you choose to waive
it .
M: r CAREY : Who would take care of it ?
G . WOOD : It would be a Town road .
V . RANKIN : The Town says in order to do this he would have to put in a road
that meets the Town specifications before you can do anything
else .
G . WOOD : That would be my answer unless you choose to waive it ,
V: RANKIN : I don ' t think you can do that . You have to get fire and ambulance
and other Town equipment there . `
G . TOTMAN : You have to have a cul-de - sac .
G . WOOD : To establish this , ithe regulations require at least a turn around .
V . RANKIN : Where is this located ?
G . WOOD : On Clark St . Ext . east of the Salt Rd . intersection .
G . TOTMAN : Getting back to the original proposal . You are looking at a
piece of land that he wants to divide to °'shave 2 parcels for two
homes . You ' re not looking at Mr . Rockefeller or Gleason or Adams
PLANNING BOARD - 10- September 15 , 1987
you are looking at the land . You are looking at whether it is
feasible or legal , according to books we have to go by , to say
' sure , if you build a road by Town specifications,and the Town
Highway Superintendent accepts it , then you do have 2 pieces
of land with 300 foot of road frontage which makes it legal . '
M . CARDY : Who would pay for building the road?
G . WOOD : He would have to .
G . TOTMAN : By doing it hat way , your bouncing the ball back into his court .
You say"-Ito him ' once you satisfy the highway department and you
have a legal road there , and you have legal frontages then we
will act on this . '
G . WOOD : There may be another problem , George , do you remember what the
maximum length of a dead end road is ?
G . TOTMAN : I don ' t , I know it has to be 60 foot wide .
G . WOOD : I mean the overall length , I think it is 700 foot , I ' ll have to
look it up . Let me add one other comment , you are not being
asked to approve or disapprove this but rather to give the man
some guidance on what you would like to see him come back with .
G . TOTMAN : Gary , correct me if I am wrong , but aren ' t a lot of towns and
villages and cities required a ' T ' for snowplows to remove snow
instead of cul-de- sacs ?
G . WOOD : That seems to be pretty popular , yes .
G . TOTMAN : Because of the fact that the snow , because they are going in a
circle builds up ; where a ' T ' they can push the snow off the
road . Our Ordinance shows a big cirle . The minimum diameter
of what we require is 100 feet , the minimum outside diameter
is 200 feet .
M . POST : The regulations show he does not have enough frontage here and
we say ' no you can ' t do it ' can he go to the ZBA and ask for
a variance on low frontage . `
G . TOTMAN : The only people who have the power on a subdivision is the
Planning Board ,
G . WOOD : It ' s not a subdivision because he is only asking to divide it
in two .
G . TOTMAN : If that is thecase he doesn ' t come to us at all he justapplies
for a permit , Gary turns him down , then he goes to the ZBA for
a variance .
M . POST : That ' s the answer to my question of where the ZBA could fit in .
PLANNING BOARD - 11 - September 15 , 1987
G . WOOD : v That is another possibility .
G . TOTMAN : Going by the criteria that they have to go by , proving hardship
and other things , there is no way - they would pass a variance .
M . POST : They have rules and regulations to go by . Would we have a
problem in that locations if there were two houses there ?
There is a house close to the road and one farther back in .
Is density an issue for us ?
G . TOTMAN : Yes . As I understand this the question was asked Mr . Wood :
' Would it be feasible what I ' m trying to do ? ' Mr . Wood told
Mr . Adams ' take it to the Planning Bard and get their opinion ' .
Then Mr . Wood would return with a consenus of opinion or options
that he might look for . Then it is up to him to decide what
he wants to apply for .
G . WOOD : The last conversation was late last week and I told him he was
too late for formal presentation for this month and he asked if
he gave me some kind of a sketch would I bring it before the
Planning Board . I told him probably so . You should not be
looking at this as a sketch plan or proposal but rather give
the man some guidance on what you ' d like to see him do .
M . POST : If there was a road already in there , would we have a problem
with the location of the houses ?
G . TOTMAN : No , I wouldn ' t think so . When I look at problems I look at what
can I legally say no to . He would have x acre in each
lot . Gary , if the Board agrees , do you &ag`'it would be fair to
give the message back to you that it is not a legal size lot
according to the road frontage , as far as the zoning regulations
are concerned . And that you , as a Zoning Enforcement Officer ,
could not pass it as to two parcels , he would have to go to the
ZBA to get that which he would be asking for a 95 foot variance
on each lot . Or the other possibility , that the Planning Board
felt if he wanted to build a road to Town specifications and
when he got that done he would come back to you and you would
approve it as two individual lots .
G . WOOD : A couple of things to address and one is based on the Town
Attorney ' s previous determinations he has to divide that into
2 lots in order to put another home on there . Beyond that
I ' ll carry whatever message you ' d like back to him .
G . TOTMAN : Did the Board understand what I just said ?
Board indicated they understood .
CVKt
G . WOOD : Looking at the duties of the ZBA appeal may be for a
variance to the regulations as they apply to a specific site .
Addressing that to your question , Mik c the ZBA vary the
lot size , I think in this Town they Lam- because it is all
put together in one document , both the zoning regulations
�� �;hu.�• � ins— f� �/ _
e '-
- - - ✓ 7 �� . .Zoo ' o�ee� 4 � � . �� 3 i.r � � � . . . -
_/'i07 e 2 Show . � e- �70(-X
- - Z " � �' ? C' � oo+ � cS/1 occ lG� a + SQ. i' G� GG ✓J - � 2c CG •e
- - - - - - - _C - G•st - av✓��{' - - - to Ow . . 28�. . . Gtf iL ) -0 eel
PLANNING BOARD - 12 - September 15 , 1987
and subdivision regulations . That is not the usual case ; but
here I think the Zoning Board was given the power to vary all
this set of documents . So if the Zoning Board should so see fit
then they could approve the lot with less than the required
frontage .
M . POST : So we need to say to him that that is an option .. and I think we ,
as a Board , v41fzhel1s going to exercise that option should go
to the ZBA and state our position on the matter . ` So . we want
to go back to him and say heres your choices : you can try to
get a variance throughtthe ZBA or you can put, in a Town road
that meets the Town specs . before approval of the division of
the land .
G . WOOD : I think your job is to be more specific than that . As a Planning
Board you should give guidance . Yes , those two options exists .
But which one is the one you feel should be exercised?
M . POST : So we want to be honest with him and go back and say we don ' t
think you ' re going to get the variance but go ahead and try
for it .
G . TOTMAN : In all fairness to everybody else in the Town who we require
present proposals ten days before the meetings ; is just look
at this as Gary suggests and think about it and ask Mr . Adams
to present the proposal ten days before a meeting and have
him come to the next meeting a lay it out for the Board what
he proposes ', to do and then we can tell him at the meeting what
out thoughts are .
G . WOOD : What I don ' t understand what proposal is he suppose to come
back with or is he suppose to come and say this is what I
want to do can I ?
G . TOTMAN So far he really hasn ' t submitted anything . He has submitted
some ideas that he has got and he would like our comments on .
That ' s it . So there is nothing really official or binding .
G . WOOD No question there .
G . TOTMAN : What I am saying is now that we have an idea of what he is
talking about , which was his original intent , normally we
don ' t act on something unless somebody makes a proposal and
nobody has made a proposal yet . Let him give us a proposal
then we can act on it .
M . POST : So , ;Gary , you are going back to him and tell him what ?
G . WOOD : Take his choise and bring one of them to the Planning Board
for the next meeting . That isn ' t quite right . I am going
to tell him if he wants to proceed with this , which he got
into because he could not do the other , I am going to tel
• PLANNING BOARD - 13 - September 15 , 1987
he can bring that proposal to you or he can go to the ZBA
for a reduced lotirfrontage variance .
M . POST : Those would be his only two options ?
G . WOOD : That really isn ' t an options either . There is the County
regulations for 150 foot .
G . TOTMAN : His only real option is to build the road .
G . TOTMAN : Our Board has been negligent as far as the SEAR . In paying
much attention to it or knowing what it is about , our Board
is really not very familiar with it at all . There is a two
hour training session on the 15th of October at NYSE&G for
all local government officials , especially members of Planning
Boards .
M . CAREY : That is our next meeting night .
G . TOTMAN : Would you be in favor of having the Village Board and our Board
get together and have a presentation by the County on the
SEAR ?
Board members agreed .
G . TOTMAN : I ' ll get a date from the County and ask the Village Board
to join us .
G . WOOD : It also came up at the Village meeting about the Village
Planning Board getting together with the Town Planning Board
on the Comprehensive Plan .
G . TOTMAN : If the Village Planning Board wants to pursue it through the
Village Board with the idea of looking at the plan that was
made in 1972 through the Town and Village , At that particular
time there were 3 people from the Town and Village on what
was called the 701 committee and got the results of what was
in the Comprehensive Plan . If they want to go to their
Village Board and ask if they would be interested in sponsoring
that type of thing again to bring it up to date , which it
was recommended at that time it be revamped every 5 years ,
would you be interested in proposing the same tKng to our
Board ?
G . WOOD : I would doubt very seriously if the same type of report could
be done again . At that time there was State funding . So it
would be a different sort of report .
G . TOTMAN : The concept would be the same . I ' m not sure what the goals
would be , you have to set a goal . If the Board agrees I will
run it by the Town Board .
PLANNING BOARD: - 14- September 15 , 1987
Board members agree it would be a good plan .
G . TOTMAN : We ' ll table the SEAR for a later date .
Since: there was no further business for the Board V . RANKIN moved the
meeting be adjourned , seconded by M . CAREY , the meeting was adjourned at 9 : 46 p . m .
Public Hearing set for Thursday , October 1 , 1987 at 8 : 00 p . m .
Next regular Planning Board meeting Thursday , October 15 , 1987 at B : OOp . m .
Respectfully submitted ,
tMarfgarftA . Palmer
'r
f
f
TOWN OF GROTON
PLANNING BOARD
Public Hearing , Tuesday , September 15 , 1987 , 8 : 00 p . m . "j
PROPOSED MAJOR SUBDIVISION at the Northeat,° corner of Clark St . Ext . and
Old Stage Rd . submitted by ROGER GLEASON , Tax Map No . 121 - 1 - 21 . 2 .
BOARD ( *present ) PUBLIC PRESENT
George Totman* , Chairman Gary Wood , Zoning Enforcement
Michael Post* , Vice Chairman Officer
Nancy Ostrander , Cor . Secretary Roger Gleason
Cecil Twigg Glenn Munson
_ Monica Carey*
Verl Rankin*
Bill Casolara
G . TOTMAN , Chairman , opened the public hearing at 8 : 00 p . m . by reading
the Public Notice dated September 4 , 1987 :
PLEASE TAKE NOTICE , that the Planning Board of the Town of Groton ,
County of Tompkins , New York , will hold a public hearing at the Town
Hall , 101 Conger Boulevard , Groton , N . Y . at 8 : 00 p . m . on Tuesday ,
Sept . 15 , 1987 , for the purpose of considering the application for
development of a major subdivision at the North- East corner of
Clark Street Extension and Old Stage Road as submitted by Roger
Gleason .
All interested persons will be heard .
George L . Totman
Chairman
DATED : Sept . 4 , 1987
G.. ` TOTMAN : Roger , would you show the Board what you propose .
R . GLEASON : We had the preliminary plans presented before . The reason for
the major subdivision is the same parcel already had divisions
off of it before . If you look in the lower left hand corner
of the survey , ( copies given to Board members ) you will see a
map of the area . It is the northeast corner of the intersection
of Clark St . and Old Stage Rd . and it encompasses roughly
20 acres .
V . RANKIN : Does that include the whole section?
R . GLEASON : Yes , the whole section . On parcel is 5 acres , one is 9 acres
and a third of 6 acres for a total of 20 acres .
j 3
PLANNING BOARD Public Hearing -2 = September 15 , 1987
Roger Gleason
G . TOTMAN : As you are looking at the map , in the lower left corner , the
2 . 6 and 2 . 7 acre lots have been sold to the same person and
they will be one lot . So that is cutting down the number
of lots .
R . GLEASON : There are two new lots now , the one on the corner and one
up Old Stage Rd . the other lot is there to rectifyFran error
that was made previously on a subdivision request .
M . POST : What do-a the dotted liner'An the corners represent ?
G WOOD : ( Examining the map ) Dimensions of the surveyed parcel .
M . POST : We are reconciling the Proper property ?
R . GLEASON : Right , I put that in when I submitted the preliminary plans .
At the last meeting I only had a survey for the9'. 5acres and
the 2 . 6 and 2 . 7 acres ; now it is all consolidated together .
M . POST : Are the same covenents in the deed as before , no mobile homes ,
homes valued at $ 60 , 000 ?
G . TOTMAN : It is stated on the application , ' at least the value of $60 , 000
excluding the land and no trailers ' . That goes in the deed
as stipulated by Roger .
M . POST : So we are approving the formal survey map .
G . TOTMAN : Right .
No further questions by the Board or public present , G . Totman Chairman closed
the public hearing .
I , MARGARET A . PALMER , DO CERTIFY that I took the minutes of the public
hearing held in the Town of Groton , County of Tompkins on September 15 , 1987
for a proposed major subdivison on Clark St . Ext . and Old Stage Rd . proposed
by Roger Gleason , and the forgoing is a true and exact copy of said hearing .
M rgar t A . Palmer