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TOWN - OF; GROTON
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PLANNING BOARD
" i Tuesday , February" 24 , -987 , ' 8 : 39 II 0 p . m . It
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BOARD ( *present ) :: _ OTH"ERS PRESENT : II
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George Totman , Chairman " Gary. Wood , Zoning Officerµ
Michael,-' Pos't ; "• Vice .Chairman Roger < Gleason
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*Nana Ostrander Cor,.: Secretary ; „ ,
*Cecil Twig.g
*Ver' 1. Rankin
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, , *Monica Care
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G ._ Totinan, . Chairman • opened the meeting at .`$ : 45 , p . m .
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MINOR ` SUB= DIVISION proposal by- . RICHARD. TURNER ,' _ Champlin. Rd . , Town .of Groton :
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G�. ' I . I- s = Referring ro : Turner ," what we do ` is , make a not ioh .
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VERL RANKIN. . made thew,mot1. ; not _ 'to grant the Minor Sub Division proposed
by RICHARD . TURNER , Champlin, Rd . , ` Town of " • Groton' +Vecause 'of - shortage of road
frontage in =accordance with ' the 'Town Ordinance ; ' MONIGA CAREY second d the'
r motion .
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y VOTE : _All in favor
, ram .Motion carried
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I rRU$AL :SUB DIVISION proposed" by ROGER GLEASON located < on = the Northwest . corner
' of the intersection of: Lick ' St . y'and `Clark St . ' Ext . Town .of Groton ,
Tax M p - No a - , 1 '18 . 12 I
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{ ,J 4 G ' TOTMANI ' ' Proposal includes , the division of the7�property into three
parcels ; two ' parcelsrof 5 acres ;'to be sold -with ; the ,remaining acerage retained<
j ` ' by Roger Presently Roger as explaining what tie is' propo"sing . = He ' ' will ` come ;- I
,k , ' back iat the , ext .meet ing wit h the proper paperwork . 'Would "'you agree, from'- what I lk
, `> is submitted so" far or: disagree ? :' ' , , u r ' ` ' ' '.
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' N OSTRANDER's I don ' t know where the division`s are on the" ketch? '
f . ( Sketch was explained for the understa 4o he . Boar '-
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G .' TOTMANs It' is classified asla Rural ,-Agricultural % Sub division . 4
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1 re you taking 5 acres out ` of the middle ? }
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R . Y GLEASON 0, (. ica'ting areas ion ; the sketch ) , wet tarea ';with arees ,' a11M1r• ° �-..
N , ` ` , rfarmsland around this area . , , still plan to farm the: remaining; acres . ' 4x r
Kx ',, Al, Referring ito Paget' 47 , : Section z22Li Item Z-�'L e s _descr ,ption ,, of property lots . . tg ' :.' ,�
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F t t , ^: I > given `you with Ithe two deed ;. descriptions , would ,ties sufficient . It is u ao 1 ,t.
a you to determine "whether I° -have ,to do more '
( 0 t . have the sure of` theft o s : F I ey wo l
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. PLANNING BOARD . . . ' - 2-, _ I Febivary • 24 �, : - 1987 .
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f G . . WOODS You ' re : referringto No . 7, . • on • the '. application? . .' , : I.
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. d - [ . I Co TWIGG : Why would we require you to survey the whole farm?
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DI I t - Are you_kgoin to :divide this into five acre lots? -
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R . GLEASON . NQ, that is not, my intention . Y
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G . ; TOTMAN The lot- next' to McMaster ' sIt-II` .shows a 60 foot : area .` .I IIII
- r R : GLEASONs I have . ao have a way to get back ` in here ( the fields ). It. just' J
happened to work out - that -way . ti
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` U. _ RANKIN s You ca�i ' t get in' from the other 'road ?
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R . ' GLEASON ' I have strip' crops in ,.through there and it is very difficult tQ
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v get out- to the backside when the field , is `planted . , That . ; 60 feet `will . have a
culvert' put 'in there . . The -purchaser :does not plan to build there immediately .
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It is my intention to put a culvert in . We talked about :that lot a .:lonkit i :ago ... ' .i With one , lot . didn' t zeguire ' anything ,but with 2 -lots - I _ ,must .,co_me to 'the - Plarming
w BI 1. I f' approval' . ' t In taddition '' this , McMaster13 wan ;a to' straighten` out ` the back
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f line if; his, : property , ;that , `I don ' t think coma in to play at all;:
G . , WOODi _ ` '; Relinement of lot Flines with no road ' frontage , there is no : problem . rI
:; , - with that . Somewhere A the Ordinance .that ie : addressed . ,,
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R . GLEASONt Here is the actual survey ; of the southwest` lot . Here isua draft ' -'
map for . the ` .Lick - St . lot . 4 " '
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C . . TWIGG : = t s v ey h
I there a question whether you ha a to sure t e whole ' farm?
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; I RANKiN : I •-;don' t see " wWtjf it , is ,legal thi`s� way . ,The 'Planning Board `
could ask for that but I think that ; weuld :be a p „� " `
R , , GLEASONi j ` We have plotted the road frontage ' but not the wooded 'area .
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V RANKINs w What+ kind` of problem would there be if you come "back to ' sell ttie 'H ,, 7' teat ? S:' � ' 1 -- L . )} - X ` +,T ) Y _ 7~ , , p S
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;, Ra . GLEESON __ I believe it is a 'minor for '2 more lots . .A a
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s LV . RANKINt , ' You , tiave sold ` the' other lots , off?' 44'
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rf = F R . _GLEAIO I think that was I enough ago` they ' no ` longer apply.' �
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11 Cla ation ' as to :Type of Subdivision° _Revie'w Procedure a answers` '
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TO ILL
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PLANNfNG BOARD 3:- February 24 , .. 1987, :-
N . ` OSTRANDERi :Are there any -large hillsx,. '
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R.. - vLEASONs - No .
M ' CAREYs What - about ' the creek :.
R . ' GLEASyyON : The creek is . known as a Red : Line creek .
VEitL RANKIN - made ,_ theAIf motion'_ the ' Board consider ;this . proposal as a
RURAL SUBDIVSION ; CGIL TWIGG . secvnded" the motion .
VOTE : f ' -ALL In favor . ItIf
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2M1 tion •ec_ arried .
G : TOTMANs Roger 'will . make . the . complete pr.esentation' ' of the' ,proposal 'at
the` next meeting .;
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MAJOR • SUBDIVISION; Clark St . � ` Ext` - and Old ..`Stage.: Rd . , ,.
GLEASONs Can I begin selling the parcels ` on this subdiyi'sion� +
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6 . WOOD': a f You can- sell ' the lots on Clark St . Ext : before . ,you build
the' new' road: off ' vf Old Stage`4 'Rd:a but you can .. t . sell :.anything `until: the
-. Final : P.lat = has been spr.esented and approved: { - r � ' . '
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r MAN presented the January 20randrFebruary> 10 minutes for approval`.
G:� TOT ,
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There .were . no additions or :cor`rectioris so ; the ' minute§ were approved; as presented , ,F
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G .. WOOD i: ' ,, Onw:February '10 tI was suppose to bring the`' Negative Declaration
t to this meeting for a. signature . That document :did ,no � require 'a signature
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so it has been sent on to John Anders §on of, the> Toinpkinsv` County Healtht' Dept . a
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V .' OLr Rankin moved then meeting ' be ad� ournefl , C .' , Twgg seconded the mot `on . .
The February" 24 meeting was adjourned: The ` next r Ia e'gulart meeting ' of . . the Planning
Board will be 1�Tuesday , ,- March 17" L , 87 �t 8:•00 rr ;
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TOWN OF GROTON
PLANNING BOARD
Public Hearing , February 24 , 1987 , 8 : 00 p . m .
PROPOSED MINOR SUB - DIVISION '' by Richard Turner , Champlin Rd . , Town of Groton
BOARD ( *present ) : PUBLIC PRESENT :
*George Totman , Chairman Gary Wood , Town Zoning Officer
Michael Post , Vice - Chairman Douglas Turner
,?Nancy Ostrander , Cor . Secretary Richard Turner
*Cecil Twigg Jeanine Carson
*Verl Rankin Elizabeth Turner
*Monica Carey Catherine Marsh
Larry Marsh
Tom Syvertsen
Russell DeMond
Neil Morris
Marilyn Morris
John A . Beck
G . Totmaan , Chairman , opened the Hearing by reading the PUblic Notice
attached .
G . TOTMAN90 What I would like to do , since you all took time to come down
to the hearing , is to give you a chance to make your comments .
The floor is now open for comments .
R . DeMOND : I don ' t understand what is going on here .
G . TOTMAN : Mr . Turner has a piece of property with a house on 225 foot
frontage . He sold a piece to the north to his daughter , 375
foot frontage ; he now wants to sell piece to his son�� with
150 foot frontage . The third piece of property creates a
sub -division , by law of the State of New York you have to hold
a public hearing .
R . DeMOND : Is there enough frontage for another house ?
G . TOTMAN : No .
R . DeMOND : How ' short is it ?
G . TOTMAN : 50 feet .
R . DeMOND : How about the acerage3 ;
G . TOTMAN : I think the propert for the son is . 9 acres ; an acre is required .
The Town Ordinance says you need 200 foot for frontage . Let
me explain . . . .
R . DeMOND : You are asking for a variance too ?
PLANNING BOARD Public Hearing - 2 - February 24 , 1987
R . Turner
G . TOTMAN : No . We thought when we spoke to Mr . Turner a month ago , there
is a small garage on the property Mr . Turner is selling to his
son that has approximately 25 foot of frontage , which would make
it 175 feet . We thought we might be able to consider 175 foot
frontage . Within the last week we found out we could not
consider it ; Mr . Turner requires the 200 foot frontage . We found
out we could not do that because the Town Ordinance requires
the 200 feet . The only time the Planning Board can vary from
the Ordinance is if there is a large sub - division , with cluster
housing , and you took so much of the property and made it into
smaller parcels than the original sub -division but still kept
the total acerage and put the remaining into a recreation area ;
but that is not the case here . After I got back from,. ''.New York
I called Mr . Turner and explained that to him . There is a possibility
he might be able to purchase the extra fifty feet on the south
side of the property if the person agrees to it . I don ' t know
whether the land is for sale or not . I understand that that land
is tied up at this particular time ; it ., ]A be possible that
after the land is no longer tied up the owner might be willing
to sell 50 feet off .the end . Wit ;. that being the case , that
would make the whole thing legal .
R . DeMOND : What you ' re saying is that is John sells Turner the land we are
wasting our time .
J . BECK : I ' m not selling a little section like that . I have different
plans for my land . The driveways up there are getting to be
a bit of a problem . There are 7 or 8 of them in one area .
G . TOTMAN : You mean that lead onto the road ?
R . DeMOND : They are blind driveways too .
N . MORRIS : Mine is a blind driveway .
M . MORRIS * Are they going to build a house there ?
G . TOTMAN : Yes , they are planning to build a house far back left hand corner
of the property . They have the extra 25 feet required on the
back side . The front side is only 150 feet .
R :. DeMOND : It is Beginning to bother me , there are a lot of houses with
water and sewage there . Just a rough survey , there are 3 acresj�
PLANNING BOARD Public Hearing .3 . February 24 , 1987
R . Turner
3 wells , 3 sewers , the lower side is going to get water runoff .
The driveways were ill planned , the water runs into the road
when it rains or there is snow melt . The-�tidriveways should be
graded properly so the water does not go into the road . The
are also blind driveways . There are cars parked on the road
when I go into the fields with equipment I can ' t always stopped
quickly when cars come out of the driveways .
M . MORRIS : I live there and I agree with everything you say .
N . MORRIS : I agree , the driveway situation is bad , there have been accidents
there .
L . MARSH : I ' m listening and I agree with them . To solve everything , I ' ll
sell h ' m my house .
T :. SYVERTSEN : I live down the road and my biggest worry is the wells and septic
systems . I have no idea what will happen with so many on the
road .
R . DeMOND : You can put in all the septic tanks you want , you go _ clay subsoil
the waters going to travel through the top soil .
G . TOTMAN : That is one of the reasons the original :'_Ordinance went to
200 foot frontage . At that time the County required 200 feet
for septic systems . The County has since reduced that to 150 feet .
We left ours at 200 feet . That is also one reason the ordiance
requires and acre of land . With the addition of the garage to
this particular property in question would only be 175 feet but
it would give it the acre of land .
N . MORRIS : It would still be short the 200 foot frontage .
G . TOTMAN : The Planning Board cannot approve it legally that is why I called
Mr : Turner beforehand .
J . BECK : Th., cost is quite a little to sell 50 feet of land separately .
The whole land is for sell in one piece .
G . TOTMAN : If Mr . Turner turned the garage over to his son .- he would only
have to have 25 feet . Other than that , our hands are tied .
J . CARSON : I live across from the Turners , I consider a well taken point ,
the water and sewer , we are down hill from them ; we would probably
be right in line for the water runoff .
PF
PLANNING BOARD Public Hearing -4 - February 24 , 1987
R . Turner
G . TOTMAN : I live on Church St . in McLean , the property is 75 feet apart ,
we don ' t have that big of a problem . That is the reason I am
explaining to you what is required by the Town . The Town passed
the Ordinance in 72 . It does have to be an acre of land , that
would not be that hard to get . If divid g property: and_• not
forming an agricultural subdivsion you can go to the Zoning
Board of Appeals and ask for a variance . This makes a subdivision
because there are 3 pieces of property ; that ' s why it comes before
the Planning Board . Unless there is enough footage on the
front , side , we can ' t act on it .
D . TURNER : I would like to know how much road frontage my father is being
taxed for . We were told 750 feet by Gary Wood . According to
the tax map there is no road frontage at all . If there is 750
foot of road frontage starting at that point , where is the rest
of it . We only have 500+ .
G . WOOD : If you scale that ( referring to Mr . Turner ' s map ) it scales
at 500 feet .
D . TURNER : The property line don ' t give that .
J . CARSON : I know I don ' t have 400 foot of frontage but I am taxed for it .
We were hoping when the taxes came around to get it straightened
out but I have not seen anything here .
D . TURNER : Somewhere toe are 200 foot short .
G . TOTMAN : How did it actually measure out ?
D . TURNER : Where the property line is 268 . 2 / 268 . 2 . How can we find out
where the property lines are ?
R . TURNER : How can I know why I am being taxed for that ?
G . WOOD : Those maps were drawn up by the County assessment office on
Buffalo St . in Ithaca .
R . TURNER : I ' ll go down there then .
G . TOTMAN : We are not going to gain anything by talking any more . If I had
known that ahead of time I would not have called the Public
Hearing ; but I :, did not and it turns out that we can ' t handle it .
My suggestion is go down to the assessment office to clear that
up . If you find out anything that wuld change things call the
PLANNING BOARD Public Hearing - 5 - February 24 , 1987
R . Turner
Town Clerk , Gary Wood or myself and we can talk further .
Public Hearing was officially closed at 8 ; 25 p . m .
I , MARGARET A . PALMER , DO CERTIFIY , that at the Public Hearing
held by the Town of Groton Planning Board for the proposed Minor Subdivision
by RICHARD TURNER on Champlin Rd . , Town of Groton held on Tuesday , February
24 , 1987 at the Town Hall , I did take the minutes of said Hearing and the
foregoing is a true and exact copy to the best of my ability .
i
Mdrgar " A . Palmer
i