HomeMy WebLinkAbout1986-12-16 TOWN OF GROTON
PLANNING BOARD
Tuesday , December 16 , 1986
BOARD : (present ) PUBLIC PRESENT :
*George Totman , Chairman Gary Wood , Zoning Enforcement
Michael Post , Vice Chairman Officer
,Nancy Ostrander , Cor . Secretary Donald & Jessie Gere
Monica Carey Roger Gleason
-�Verl Rankin Timothy C . Buhl , P . E .
Cecil Twigg Jack Fitzgerald , Town Attorney
Leland Cornelius , Town Highway Supt .
George Totman , Chairman , opened the meeting at 8 : 15 p . m . V . RANKIN
made the motion the minutes of the November 18 , 1986 meeting be approved
as presented , M . CAREY seconded the motion ; motion carried .
SITE PLAN REVIEW for a Bed and Breakfast Tourist Home presented by DONALD L .
and JESSIE M . GERE at 155 Lafayette Rd . , Town of Groton ; Tax Map No . 29- 1- 14 . 1 :
TOTMAN : Gary , do you have any comments to make ?
G . WODD : I have not inspected it as yet . This was the first step , to get
the zoning straightened out . I told Mrs . Gere that after they get approval
from the Planning Board we would do an inspection to see if the building
conformed to the Fire and Building Code . If there are any nonconformities ,
we presume that those things can be taken care of . I have not gone to the
extent of asking how many rooms you plan to have .
J . GERE : There are 3 bedrooms and a full bath on the second floor , one
bedroom is if they have children ; otherwise there are 2 bedrooms . Our bed-
room is on the first floor - with a full bath .
G . WOOD : Potentially , there is a total of 7 guests , including children .
J . GERE : Right .
G . WOOD : What is the parking situation ? What do you have for parking ?
D . GERE : The driveway goes toward the barn , the house is on the left ,
the garage on the right ; there is plenty of parking area .
G . TOTMAN : From what I have seen of it there should not be any concern with
the parking . It is almost a two lane driveway with a big turnaround by the
garage , 6 or 7 cars could be parked there with no problem .
J . GERE : OUt in back by the chicken coop , which we are going to clear off ,
is an area for parking also .
G . TOTMAN : At this point , if there are no more questions , we could approve
this dependent on the County Health Department and the State Fire and Building
Code regulations for running the business and having people stay overnight .
PLANNING BOARD MEETING - 2 - December 94 1986
V . ,tRANKIN made the motion that the Site Plan Review for a Bed and
Breakfast Tourist Home at 155 Lafayette Rd . Town of Groton presented by
DONALD L . & JESSIE M . GERE be approved dependent on meeting the regulations
of the Tompkins County Health Board and the NYS Fire andBuilding Code ; M . CAREY
seconded the motion .
VOTE : All in favor
Motion carried
APPLICATION FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL OF MAJOR SUBDIVISION presented by ROGER
GLEASON for land bordered by Old Stage Rd . andClark St . Ext , in theTown of
Groton ; Tax Map No . 121 - 1 - 21 . 2 :
G . TOTMAN : Those of you here at the November meeting had a chance to look at
the map . The map •7.that >Roger presented , on the surface , looked good at the
time he presented it . Afterwards , and Roger only came to us at that particular
time as a very preliminary meeting just to let us know what he had in mind ,
he filed his formal application he changed some things that were on the map .
One of the major things he changed , if you look at the map , the road that is
there and the cul -de - sac that is there ; on the map it looks like it is legal
according to the Town Ordinance . On No . 7 of the application he is calling
it a " temporary turn around of 50 feet rather than 100 feet radius " which
does not meet the Town Highway regulations .
T . BUHL : We changed that request , you can forget that .
G . TOTMAN : It is here in writing .
T . BUHL : What we did is we looked at it and that looked like the way it
reads but found we could go larger on it if the Town required it .
G . TOTMAN : A month ago the basic concept looked good then we saw this and that
is why the question . I asked Jack Fitzgerald , the Town Attorney , to be here
tonight and Leland Cornelius , Town Highway Superintendent , to be here also .
The way the application was written , initially, the Town Highway Dept . could
not turn a truck ;arourid with a plow on it and be safe and you could not take
a fire truck and turn it around in there .
R . GLEASON : You can delete that No . 7 and make it 100 feet to meet the require -
ments .
G . TOTMAN : I can ' t change your map .
T , BUHL : The preliminary sketch plan had a 50 foot radius , then when we got
looking at the Town requirements we decided to make it large enough so that
we are not asking for the waiver at this time .
G . TOTMAN : Jack , would it be legal for him to cross this out and initial it
or must he rewrite the whole thing ?
J . FITZGERALD : That would be; acceptable as long as the map shops the 100 feet .
G . TOTMAN : The map shows 100 feet . Do you agree with the map , Corny?
PLANNING BOARD MEETING - 3 - December 16 , 1986
L . CORNELIUS : Yes , the map shows the :! 50 foot radius , 100 foot diameter .
*;Roger Gleason crossed out the first line of No . 7 started with
' temporary and ending with roadway ' on the Application° with the
word ' delete ' and signed his name**
L . CORNELIUS : The biggest highway rig is 42 feet and can turn around in a
50 foot radius .
G . TOTMAN : We are in the discussion stage tonight , at some point tonight
we will set a date for a public hearing . At the public hearing we will have
to answer the questions of the people who come to the public hearing . We want
to be prepared ourselves to be able to answer those question along with Mr . Buhl
and Roger Gleason at the hearing . Does anybody have any more questions they
would like to ask Roger ?
V . RANKIN : The map is all in accordance with the Zoning Ordinance ?
G . TOTMAN : Yes:. Because this is a major subdivision it requires an Environmental
Assessment Form be filed .
T . BUHL : This Assessment form that we prepared is really only an aide to you
to follow and agguideline . I ' m not saying it is the last word , you can change
anything that is on here . It is basically to give you some background information .
You may look at it , add to it , take away from it , do whatever you feel is necessary .
The developer is responsible for preparing the initial document . You have the
right to approve , reject or modify it as you see fit .
G . WOOD : The data he has provided is Part I , Part II is the one the Board has
to address .
G . TOTMAN : The last section of this we have to fill out to the best of our
judgment ; we have to go up on the land and look at it to do it . As it relates
to the land - any impact on the neighbors , water run off , etc .
T . BUHL : We have checked some of the things in that section we don ' t feel will
make an impact . The only physical change will be the construction of approximately
500 linear feet of road , plus ultimately the houses that will be built on it .
Again , you can agree or .disagree with those .
G . TOTMAN : Jack , at this point would you like to guide us on anything we might or
might not do on this ; any input ?
J . FITZGERALD : Everything is going smoothly , you are doing a great job . You
have a lot of technical stuff here that you have to follow . The preliminary
plat has to be submitted at a preliminary meeting- I presume that is what you
have there . What we are doing now is discussing the documents that are being
submitted for approval . We have the map ; has somebody checked the map oult
against Section 242 ?
T . BUHL : I think what you have before you meets the requirements of the Zoning
Ordinance with one exception . I believe , for a preliminalry plat the Ordinance
says you have to have a detailed boundary survey done on the parcel . What you
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PLANNING BOARD . 4- December 16 , 1986
see before you tonight does not :, have the final computed boundaries
done by a surveyor , perse . That is a tremondous expense to have
done at this time . We are looking at such a large lot subdivision ,
rather than a one .---, acre lot , these are two acres in size . Judging
from the physical restraints on each side of the road we did not
do a boundary survey at this time as required by the Ordinance .
You have natural barriers on three of the sides ; the creek and
2 roadways . We have also not set aside any proposed land for public
use , such as park lands , which is also mentioned in the Ordinance .
We are trying to keep the rural character of the thing so we have
not set anything aside along those lines . Everything else is there .
We have the road profile , where the culverts are and where the
drainage is going to run ; show the lot numbers and the approximate
size of the lots ; we tried to show the vegetation and existing ;;
drainage patterns . At the bottom we have noted each lot will have
individual wells and septic systems ; and there will be no trailers .
The contours are blown up to tenth intervals . . . . . . they are not
a result of an actual field survey . What will happen , after he gets
over this hurtle , the next step for Roger will be to go out and do
a graphic survey for the final design . It is a fairly uniformly
sloping site ; there is not a lot of things going on with the
property .
G . WOOD : At what point in time do you propose to go through with the perk
testing ?
T . BUHL : Generally , after this phase . We don ' t anticipate a problem because
of the slope of the land and the nature of the soils there . Roger has done
some excavation on the property and the land is sandy material so we are not
anticipating a perk problem . If this was further up the hillside , one of the
first things we do would go up and take a perk test to see wh t kind of problems
we would have . Because of the large lots , type of soil , good water supply
and septic systems .
G . WOOD : I think , George , the subdivision regulat on&-irequire curbs and
gutters , sidewalks .
R . GLEASON : We have asked for an exception on walks , lighting and the public area .
G . TOTMAN : That is requested in No . 7 of the application . Mr . Cornelius , would
you like to discuss with us what the Town requires in the matter of a road .
That would be acceptable to the Town ?
L . CORNELIUS : You have a copy of the specifications .
J . FITZGERALD : What has happened historically?
G . TOTMAN : This is the first major subdivision we have had . Basically , what we
are saying is , if we go to a public hearing and we ultimately passit , it would
be on the decision that the roadway would follow in the written form .
R . GLEASON : Yes , as far as the road itself , I ' m asking for and exception on the
curbs .
PLANNING BOARD . 5 - December 16 , 1986
T . BUHL : I think that we said that the road depth , subbase , pavement would
meeting the Town specifications ; we are asking for an exception to the curb
and sidewald specifications .
G . WOOD : It is suppose to be 20 foot wide road , 7 foot shoulders and 18 inches
gravel .
T MHL : The roadside ditches we have should . . . . . to pavement , where you go
to curbs you don ' t get into the basic situation . Ditches are easier to maintain
and clean .
J . FITZGERALD : You want to be making a list of things we would want;! to know ;
we would probably give a go ahead now condition on approval dependent upon
a final map being submitted to conform the topography . IF they get the idea
from this conversation that the Board looks with favor on the proposal , they
will probably go with the added expense fov d1 final map . We can conditionally
approve it as long as they know require final map . I suppose you are going
to check the land , the drainage , one of the principal concerns that we have .
G . TOTMAN : Conceivably , sometime in January we can hold the public heating .
After that point we either can do it that night or at a later date , we have
45 days to make a decision . We can conditionally approve it with what we have .
Before the final approval we would need the final map and I would assume between
now and then , the majority of the Board members will look at the land so they
can answer questions raised at the public hearing . At the public hearing if
we have the final map we can show people that we don ' t see any problem with
it , if that is the case .
J . FITZGERALD : The one you want is the actual field survey , done by the Planning
Board that is part of their preliminary plat form . Then there is 242 . 16 , the
application covers only part of the subdividers holdings . I see that Roger
owns all the way around it . ( referring to the map ) What is this here , Roger ?
R . GLEASON : That is a creek .
J : FITZGERALD : You don ' t plan on going anyplace else , ( north ) ?
T . BUHL : Roger does own land to the north , but it would be a major expense to
expand further north because of the creek . There is a mistake on the map as
to property owners , apparently there is some other property that has been sold
at another time .
J . FITZGERALD : Will there be deed restrictions ?
R . GLEASON : No trailers , we are trying to figure some way to specify house size .
J . FITZGERALD : We should have a list of those restrictions
G . TOTMAN : So far , what Roger has presented , the main deed restrictions will
be no trailers on the land .
PLANNING BOARD - - - 6 - -
December 16 , - 1986
N . OSTRANDERi What do you° mean by trailers , are- you including double wides ?
J . FITZGERALD : The requiremnt is that he - supply- us with any deed. restrictions .
R . GLEASONt We are thinking of. st1ck _ houses . .
J . .FITZGERALD : You can - put that - in -your ' tract deeds.; also as far as - the size
' with the marketable price of $ 60 , 000 ; ,you can also ' - treat the square footage.
and money both , for your own protection - down the line , - - It is . nothing until
you get it recorded . If you come up with something.. that appears . satisfactory ,
you are the owner of the whole thing and - you can record any restrictions on
the property ,
G . TOTMAN : I find , with talking with people outside of the county nd town , ' that
,when you put these type of restrictions in the owner / seller of the land makes
out better financially because you wind up getting more money for the property .
We had one this last year- in - the Town of Groton with 4 parcesl of . land , he
put . the restrictions on . that . . all the homes had to be over $ 60 , 000 '. He sold
one parcel and the guy .is - building a $ 100 , 000 ' home on it and because of that
there is one right next to it workth about $ 80 , 000 , he has - a guy who wants
to buy the remaining parcels because of what is happening in the area . That
is a., result of the restrictions . he put on it .
T . BUHL : It ' s good protections not only for the owner but for the builder
of the homes on the lots .
G . TOTMAN : ARe there any more questions ? Roger has agreed to comply with the
Zoning Ordinance with regards to the . roadway ; Roger has agreed to furnish the
Board with the final maps we have to do a field survey . The next . The next
step , if you have no further questions of Roger , is to set up a public hearing
date . It can be a regular meeting night or some other night , We can ' t set
the date too quick because we have, to give you time to get the final map ,
_ u
T . BUHL : ' When you say the ' final map ' what in additon are you looking for w
over and above what, you have?
J . FITZGERALD : ': You would like to ride with this map through the public hearing ?
T : BUHL : _ As I understand it , the public hearing is based on the preliminary
plat and not the final subdivision .
J . FITZGERALD : " Right *
V , RANKIN : 2We can approve. it on condition of the final map ?
J . FITZGERALD : You don ' t . approve anything , you accept it on condition of
presentation of the -final map . What is needed is an understanding of what E
is required by the Board .
preliminary
T : BUHL : If this . is not acceptable as the / : plat map what we would have
to do is an actualy field survey with boundaries and so forth .
F
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PLANNING BOARD - 7 - December 16 , 1986
J . FITZGERALD : We can require that later .
T . BUHL : It will have to be before the final plat is done .
J . FITZGERALD : You can hold the public hearing on the preliminary .plat and
modify it ; you can tell him what he has to do .
R . GLEASONaa You can approve it with certain conditions ?
J . FITZGERALD : Right .
G . WOOD`i : What I would suggest is you accept that plat as the submittal plat ,
set a public hearing for next months at the meeting following the hearing you
can first do your SECOR review and then approve this preliminary plat with
whatever modifications you deem necessary ; the following month they can come
back with the final plat .
T . BUHL : That would give us time for the complete survey , prepare detail
design of the road ; we ' re looking at a two month process from today to the
presentation of the final plat .
G . TOTMAN : If you would be comfortable with that timetable , we will set the
public hearing for the third Tuesday in January .
R . GLEASON : This would be a three stage operation : you have the public hearing
then a meeting to decide what you are going to require of us . - and then we would
have to submit it and then you would have a meeting to approve or disapprove it .
G . TOTMAN : Correct me if I am wrong but , I think , a lot of it depends on
how much information is fed into us from you before the third Tuesday of
January . If enough information is fed into us , if all the information is fed
into us that we need , we could after the public hearing make a decision . IF
not then we would have to go to the February regular meeting .
i
G . WOOD : Let me make this interjection , if I can ; presuming you set the public
hearing and you . have the preliminary plat . here , the conceptual thing ; now the
populace comes in here and they want to know where the sewage is going , where
the runoff is going , what happens with the traffic , etc . ; that is up to thier
engineer to answer . He is going to be here and face those questions . If , after
the public hearing , you reopen your regular meeting then you got all that
information in hand , plus you have seen the site , then you can do your SEQUOR
review and determine whether or not it has a significant environmental impact .
If it does have a significant environmental impact , then you have to send them
back to the drawing board to do an environmental impact statement . If it does
not , you could presumably accept that , or approve that , as the preliminary
plat and tell them next month , meaning ' February , you come in with the final
drawin&, which shows the boundary survey , the actual road design , the drainage
system , etc . ; they could have all that here in February , and depending on how
comfortable you feel with it , you could approve it or roll it over another
month to study it . But even then it is only March .
PLANNING BOARD - 8 - December 16 , 1986
T . BUH14 One other suggestion , if we could schedule a public hearing earlier
in Jan�.uary , and if the populace brings up some of the issues Gary suggested ,
we cant address those at that,- ,meeting . But if it was something that required
additional report work or documentation we could then have that by your
regular meeting , the third Tuesday of the month . We ' re not asking you to make
a decision right after the public hearing , but rather you would take the public
hearing record and any additional information we would submit after that hearing
in response in detail to some of the issues brought up at the hearing , then you
can decide whether this should be approved as is or with modifications with
an environmental impact statement .
G . TOTMAN : IF we have the public hearing before the regular meeting then any
questions that come up we could condense within that week and discuss them
at the Iregutlar meeting rather than hols them the same night .
<<*Public; r. hearing set for Tuesday , January 6 , 1986 at 8 : 00 p . m . **
G . TOTMAN : There is a map showing the property owners around Roger ' s land that
is in question here . As I understand it , across the road from this land , there
are 4 or 5 property owners ; on the other side , across the creek or ravine , there
are none . It doesn ' t . look like there will be a lot of property owners involved .
As I understand it , looking at the map , there is going to be a"� buffer zone
on the west side of the property?
T . BUHL : There is a buffer area between the new proposed subdivision and
existing owners . We will change the map to reflect any new owners of surrounding
property .
J . FITZGERALD : When are we going to take a position on the street , or are they
going to pave the street ?
G . TOTMAN : They have agreed to go by the book .
T . BUHL : With the exception to the curbing .
J . FITZGERALD : With regard to the sidewalks , storm drainage facilities , water
mains , you are going to skip all that , so you are going to have to ask for
a waiver at some point in time . That is stuff we should know before the public
hearing so we know what they are going to ask for waivers on , in writing .
G . TOTMAN : In No . 7 of the application he has requested an exception for
' no walks , liting or public area ' . These are all over 1 � acre lots :
T . GLEASON : The walks refer to the curbing also .
G . TOTMAN : The best thing for you to do is draft a letter of the projects
description .
T . BUHL : IWe will draft a letter , before the public hearing , on what the;;; project
involves and what we are asking exceptions for , etc .
R . GLEASON ; IThere is another thing in there that talks about electric being
underground . It won ' t be necessary , there is electric already across the road .
I
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PLANNING BOARD - December 16 , 1986
ii
T . BUHL : That electric will feed the lots on the existing street ; the electric
for tie lots in the cul -de - sac will be underground .
. . . . .MAN : Are there an more questions the Board w ' Roger ?
y q ashes to ask Roger . Before
the public hearing the Board will make a personal field survey of the land .
T . BUHLI There is one low area we are going to try to stay on the upper end
of . WE hope to drain it . It is the only low spot in the whole proposal .
G . TOTMiN: Jack , do you have anything more to add ?
J . FITZGERALD : No .
G . TOTMI,N : Corny , do you have anything to add ?
I
L . CORNEALIUS : I ' m satisfied so far .
N . OSTRANDER : I have a few suggestions but they are for later . IF they have
some sort of surface at the end of the cul de sac to put the snow when it is
plowed .
M . CAREY and V . RANKIN : Have no questions at this time .
VER.L RANKIN moved the meeting be adjourned ; N . OSTRANDER seconded the
motion . Motion carried , meeting adjourned .
Public Hearing : Tuesday , January 6 , 1986 ; 8 : 00 p.,.+m .
Regular Meeting : Tuesday , January 20 , 1986 ; 8 : 00 p . m .
Respectfully submitted ,
9 / 01/0
Ma garet A . Palmer
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