HomeMy WebLinkAbout1986-03-25 cR
TOWN OF GROTON
j PLANNING BOARD
IYM
Tuesday , March 25 , 1986 , 8 : 45 p . m .
BOARD ( *Present ) * PUBLIC PRESENT :
»George' Totman , Chairman Gary Wood , Zoning Enforcement
Mike Post , Vice - Chairman Officer
*Nancy Ostrander , Cor , Secretary Colleen Pierson
Monica Carey Mr . & Mrs . Harvey Baker
*Verl Rankin Randy Baker
Cecil Twigg Roger Gleason
G . Totman , Chairman , opened the Planning Board meeting . Minutes of the
January , 1986 , meeting were read and approved .
DISCUSSION OF PROPOSED PURCHASE AND USE OF PROPERTY ON PERU RD . ( RT38 ) BY
MR & MRS . HARVEY BAKER AND RANDY BAKER :
TOTMAN : Harvey Baker is planning on buying Ron Cotanch ' s poultry farm .
What he wants to do is make a wood working buisines on the farm .
He claims there is enought parking space in the back to take care
of any required parking .
BAKER : There is about an acre in back of the barn . It will take some
fill to make it level .
TOTMAN : What he is interested in , is before he goes any farther , is it
feasible to look into . From our Planning Board that would be
a Site -Plann Review we will have to take up at the next meeting .
The rules say it has to be in ten days before a meeting .
RANIk�a; 3 Q Have you talked to Gary Wood about this ?
BAKER : Yes , he says it is okay with the approval of the Planning Board .
TOTMAN : At the next meeting we will decide whether it requires a public
hearing . The only problem I see so far , it has been decided by
the Town Attorney , the enforcement officer and the Town Board ,
the owner of the property has to make the application .
BAKER : I am not the owner yet . I have been trying to get it since
October .
TOTMAN : If you could get Ron Cotanch to sign the papers , I ' m sure we would . . . . .
The Board would need a layout map .
R . BAKER : Another thing , we would be selling . good antique furniture .
•
PLANNING BOARD MEETING - 2 - -March 25 , 1986
OSTRANDER : You would be making things there ?
H . BAKER : Making , repairing and refin thing .
OSTRANDER0 Will you have a stripper tank ?
R . BAKER : No , we use a blow on system . We plan on grading off the pools
in the back and grading then in .
OSTRANDER : Does he realize all that goes into the Site Plan Review ; this is
located in a low density area .
TOTMAN : Because it is within 500 feet of a State highway we have to
notify the State before we can take any action on it .
H . BAKER : What would they do ?
TOTMAN : They would look at the impaic,t m
WOOD : The County Planning Department must make a recommendation to the
Town Planning Board before this Board can act . It is in an
advisory capacity only . The time period would be before the
next meeting .
TOTMAN : If we have the application tomorrow , we can send it to the County
and have it back in a few days , before the April meeting .
WOOD : We have no opinion on this , youmay act without prejudice , is the
type of answer they could give .
R . BAKER : The Town Supervisor stated ; thatiduring the Groton Festival Days
suggested we have an antique flea market at the same time as the
balloon festival . Is there anything else lyou have to do to do
that ?
TOTMAN : I think you better let me check on that one because during the
Groton Festival Days , the last Saturday and Sunday in August ,
for the last few years they have been doing it the Groton Historical
Society has been using the Village barns for a flea market .
This would come under Light Manufacturing , 142 . 4 , allowed in
a low density area .
MRS . BAKER : Is there anything else the Board would address at that time ?
RANKIN : What time period are we talking about ?
H. X' BAKER : I have to own the property first . I continually get business I
can ' t handle because of space .
PIERSON : You don ' t have time for a hearing before next meeting .
PLANNING BOARD MEETING - 3 - a March 25 , 1986
RANKIN : We don ' t need a hearing .
H . BAKER : We don ' t want delay but we . . . . . . . . . The fleas market , the Town
Supervisor made comment to us .
TOTMAN : The market at the Groton Festival started out as a flea market .
From my interpretation I think this is more of a craft fair now
than a flea market .
OSTRANDER : You said you would be selling cabinets , is this going to be
actuallretail sales ?
H . BAKER : Retail sales will . be mostly done at the personsas home . The
call up , planning on having display area : Any sales are usually
done at a person ' s home . It usually takes six weeks to do
something like that .
OSTRANDER : Similar to Baker- Miller with cabinets on display ?
H . BAKER : Yes , similar . The same idea . Basically for them to see the
quality of the work . See different designs , to be able to see
' we can make cabinets .
CAREY6 You , will be making the stuff right there ?
H . BAKER : Yes .
WOOD: To set up a manufacturing business in the low density zone is
not permitted . The only way it can be permitted is . if the Board
is willing to consider . . . . . . .reuse of building there now .
TOTMAN : It would be called Custom and Light Manufacturing , it is legal .
DISCUSSION OF PROPOSED SUBDIVISION ON OLD STAGE ROAD PRESENTED BY ROGER GLEASON *
GLEASON : I have an application for a Rural Subdivision on the corner of
Old Stage Road and Clark St . Ext . I have sold one five acre lot .
The proposal is for a five acre lot next to Burdick ' s on Old
Stage Rd . I would like to get this approved and present and
present a tentative plan of division of whole area . If I resubmit
the whole thing tonight , whether it is possible to have the Board
approve three lots rather than one or just approve one five acre
lot and present preliminary , then go to next meeting .
TOTMAN : How many lot have you sold in this deeded parcel of land already ?
GLEASON : Two ,
TOTMAN : The third one means a subdivision .
PLANNING BOARD MEETING -4 - March 25 , 1986
GLEASON : A Rural Subdivision can be five .
TOTMAN: How big are the other two lots ?
GLEASON : The last time talked to you it would be a Rural Subdivision .
TOTMAN : I ' m talking about the two sold already ; after the Zoning
Ordinance took effect .
GLEASON : Burdick and Dunne . Last time you said it would be a Rural
Subdivision ,
TOTMAN : You are talking about this whole parcel ? ( referring to drawing )
GLEASON : I divided it into three parcels . At the time I needed five acres
taken out , I did not have them divided .
TOTMAN : Are you planning on selling more parcels after you get through
selling these ' off the rest of the farm ?
GLEASON : I don ' t plan on it now , but I ' m not going to stop .
TOTMAN : In the end it would be cheaper for you to make the whole farm
into a subdivision .
GLEASON , It cost too much to have it surveyed .
TOTMAN : Before long , you will be forced to do that .
GLEASON : I don ' t know , how do you do this . We talked about a Major
Subdivision before , I talked to Gary . As I understand , the
interpretation that I got was , that every time we cross a road
it is a separate parcel .
TOTMAN : You ' re talking about when we dealt with the Koekebacker parcel .
The road divided the parcel and it was declared a separate part .
OSTRANDER : Thes is one � deed here ? ( referring to the drawing )
TOTMAN : No , deeds covering more acres . This is within a certain road
block , that is h`owtwe dealt with the previous land .
WOOD : Minor Subdivision is three to five lots ; Major is more that six .
If you sell fourt lots from original , then it becomes major
subdivision .
TOTMAN : You have not submitted the proper form for a subdivision . You
are suppose to have a survey and it must be in ten days before
the meeting .
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PLANNING BOARD MEETING - 5 - March 25 , 1986
GLEASON : We had a preliminary hearing on this .
TOTMAN : We went over a map , with proposed five acre lots . What about this
lot with . 2 acres ?
GLEASON : That goes with the big area . I own it now .
TOTMAN : From this map , you are proposing to sell the lot by Burdick ' s ?
You are asking for a Rural Subdivision with three more large lots ?
The last time you were here we;stolldtkyou the best thing for you
to do . You keep coming back every month . We tried to tell you last
time it would be easier on you and cheaper if you went for a
Major . On this particular parcel of Ind you are asking for three .
If you want to sell any more , it is automatically a major .
GLEASON : You changing your ruling about the road ?
TOTMAN0 Any more on this part ?
RANKIN : Is this your line ? ( referreing to drawing)
0STRANDER : I don ' t think it would be a Major , I think it would be a Minor .
RANKIN : This road deal , if this . land , with road , is on the same deed ,
the . . . . with the road .
OSTRANDER : To go by the definition of a . . . . . . . .
GLEASON : Mr . Henry brought that point up .
( 114 . 03 - Development lot / Deed lot )
RANKIN : The land northeast , southeat of property on one deed ?
GLEASON : I ' d have to check these with all separate deeds , at one time
became consolidated as far as taxe+parcel concerned .
TOTMAN : There is nothing more we can do tonight .
GLEASON : The main thing I want to know is which way to go . I want to get
it down exactly what I am�itoSdol!,%
TOTMAN : Within the next week , sometime tween now and the next week ,
in order to be clear in our minds , have the Planning Board
members with Gary and whoever else wants to , to take out the files
of your property and color code map to your subdivisions for
further reference .
GLEASON : I think I still need to know ; does a road make different parcels
when you cross the road ?
PLANNING BOARD MEETING - 6- March 25 , 1986
WOOD : To satisfy , lets say this is one parcel on tax map . Even if
it weren ' t , based on what Jim Henry said , since it is separated
by a road , this becomes entity by itself .
TOTMAN : What determined that particular night , it was decided that Lick
was a site block , whatever was done in that square becomes an
entity in itself . You cross the road youhhave to resubmit .
That was the only way you could sell to Koekebacker that
particular parcel .
GLEASON0 The question is . . . . . If you read 220 . 1 and 222 . . . I think I have
supplied you with what I am required to .
TOTMAN : Your question on the Health Department permit is comparatively
right . We still can ' t legally act upon this tonight . It was
not totally submitted prior to the meeting and we will do it at
the April 15 meeting .
GLEASON : If you go to 223 I was interested inaacquiring conditions of
approval which then we would provide the other . ONe of the plvk) �.,ke
problems is I don ' t still understandeTapraYouy/wanteme to spend money
before it , you may change my interpretation of this . I was
hoping we could come to an agreement with modifications before
I do the final thing ; then It can be approved with the
modifications . If you are going to be so hard and fast you have
to have tremendous drawings , this is the reason I shied from
a Major Subdivision , it gets expensive .
TOTMAN : Roger , let me make it clear to yoiwhy we ' reashesitant as to jumping
and saying ' it ' s okay ' . You have to realize that you were on the
Planning Board for many , many years and over the years you did
many things . You came before the Board , you set off in a chair ,
did not partake in the meeting . Many people made comments to
the Town Board asking how can you get away with all this . Right
now you come in with more subdivisiors than anybody else and
you want them passed right away . You can ' t expect the Board to
go out of its way and get themselves in trouble for everything
that comes up . They have done some '� thingsbtforsLyou . Every time
you come in you want immediate decisions . This Board has to
answer to the public . Everything seems to be on the borderline .
They have to have time to think it over and discuss it .
GLEASON : I had this before you originally last year .
TOTMAN : You drew it back .
GLEASON : I try to find out what you wanV�, 1, The main thing I want to know .
I ' m not pushing it . I ' m suppose to have a closing on this thing .
If Ism sure going toK.have everything the next meeting , we ' re .
alright .
RANKIN : We have to go which way the book says .
PLANNING BOARD MEETING . 7 - March 25 , 1986
TOTMAN : ( read information from the January , 1986 meeting , second
paragraph )
OSTRANDER : Would it be a Rural or a Minor ? There was Burdick anduDunne .
You can only sell 4 more , making . . . . . . .
WOOD : You can sell , l , 2 , 3 , 4 and remaining parcel makes it 5 .
A minor subdivision is creating five parcels .
TOTMAN : What Roger is asking for is a Rural Subdivision ,
OSTRANDER : He can ' t because the other two are smaller than five acres .
TOTMAN : Roger knows what he can do . He can sell three more , that is all .
Any more , makes it a major subdivision . In fairness to buyer ,
if they want to subdivide lots they should see us first .
A person would spend thousands of dollars to fill it . You have
220 foot frontage .
OSTRANDER : If the Planning Board determines , you might need a survey .
GLEASON : When I . give the papers to you next meeting , approve that one
or all three . I want to get that one done now .
OSTRANDER : Do this all at once and get it all done . I submit this drawing ,
this okay , approved as presented .
GLEASON : One other question , if you follow the major subdivision to the
letter you have everything it becomes a major project , it does
say the Planning Board can waive some of the provisions . If
you have a Major Subdivision because of numbers , with no roads ,
sewer or etc . What I really would like to know , just what
you require to do a Major Subdivision ; would it be an extension
of a Minor Subdivision ?
TOTMAN : Before we could give any answer to that we would have to see
what you have in mind and what you ' re proposing . Maybe not in
lawyer detail . You lay it out for the Board ' this is what I
would like to do , what would you require me to accomplish ? ,,,
GLEASON : If I come in next time you have to think of it another six weeks ,
we ' re talking about next year .
TOTMAN : If you were in this place would you answer that question ?
GLEASON : What I ' m asking is give some thought to it . I think you
still need criteria to go by .
WOOD : You keep saying , ' I ' m not going to develop streets , etc ' . You
don ' t have to do a cross section . If you go down through this
list , some things fall out . The other things here , ought to
be here ; controus , intervals of five feet . You ought to show
the Planning Board what you ' re going to do with drainage . You
have to have it .
I
PLANNING BOARD MEETING - 8 - March 25 , 1986
TOTMAN0 For example , remember the out of town enterprise that wanted to
buy a big parcel on Sovocool Hill and divide into ten acre lots .
If they asked the same question , we could not answer . When we i
looked at it the village would be swamped with the water runoff .
You have to look at the proposal .
1
I
GLEASON : Gary just said some things that answer my questions . I ' ll
resubmit with the whole outline and will submit a survey . I
don ' t think I have to submit all umpteen copies for a Rural
Sub-division , just a sketch .
T.OTMAN : Right .
OSTRANDER : Another thing , in the meeting bring the public in first of all
in the preliminary subdivision . He has to bring public in if
feels they live in that area . It ' s not like , have it all
divided up , they feel you ' re trying to sneak it through .
If it is all up front in the beginning and they know what is going
to happen , it is better .
GLEASON : Could I have a copy of how the line roads work ?
PROPOSED GREENHOUSE BUSINESS ON W . GROTON ROAD BY ABE CONGDON *
RANKIN : It is a greenhouse this year but it won ' t be next year .
TOTMAN : The point we have to consider is , he has a greenhouse used for
cone purpose and eants to sell to the public . He already has
a permit for the greenhouse . All he is asking for tonight is
the privilege to sell the stuff to the general public .
RANKIN : Let him sell it .
POST : Sounds like a good idea .
CAREY * Yes .
OSTRANDER : Yes .
MIKE POST made the motion to approve the application of ABE CONGDON
to run a greenhouse on W . Groton Rd . MONI'CAiCAREYYfsecorded the motion .
VOTE : All in favor .
Motion carried .
PLANNING BOARD MEETING - 9 - March 25 , 1986
PROPOSED SAWMIIL BUSINESS ON CLARK ST . EXT . BY ROBERT KLUGE :
TOTMAN : Mr . Kluge proposed a portable sawmill , probably , from his
explanation , 75 percent would be done on the property of
others .
OSTRANDER : I believe he said 90 percent would be done on other peoples
woodlots .
POST : It is good for the community .
VERL RANKIN made the motion the application of ROBERT KLUGEdfor a
portable sawmill be approved ; MONICA CAREY9' seconded the motion .
VOTE : All in favor .
Motion carried .
PROPOSEDOMOTO.R VEHICLE REPAIR SHOP ON BIRD CEMETERY RD . BY RICHARD DECKER :
TOTMAN : Mr . Decker has a mobile home on Bird Cemetery Road and next to
the home is a 2 bay garage with another half bay without a
door . We want to look at the parking . The barn is 87 feet from
the road . The parking area is 87 by 62 , The driveway is 20 feet
wide . There should be enough': to accommodate what cars will be
there . On the surface it looks like parking area for cars .
He indicated tonight he is going to be doing basically farm
machinery . If that is the case , I think we should figure out
wording on how much oft-his farm machinery can be left sitting .
Right now there are no neighbors . Later somebody might want to
build in the area .
OSTRANDER : What about his hours of operation ?
TOTMAN : A little ridiculous , in country without neighbors , to set hours .
The people , at the hearing , had legitimate grips tonight . We
can stipulate whatever machinery or cars in parking lot waiting
to be repaired be parked in an orderly fashion , neat in
appearance
OSTRANDER : Could you say have more . . . . . . . . . . . of machinery have to go to
a junkyard , just a hint - don ' t go beyond extremes . If you put
11
it in now , somebody comes back. later and says ' I never had; to have
it this way ' , we could go back and say ' yes , this is the way it is ' ,
TOTMAN : We could pass it with the following stipulations : 1 ) providing
no excessive amount of machinery and motor vehicles accumulate
for a long period of time . 2 ) Vehicles or other items in parking
lot , waiting for repair or to be picked up , be stored in
lines and an orderly fashion . 3 ) any sign must comply with
the Ordinance .
PLANNING BOARD MEETING - 10- March 25 , 1986
MONICA CAREY made the motion the Planning Boardaapprove the application
of RICHARD DECKER for a Motor Vehicle Repair Shop on Bird Cemetery Rd . in the
Town of Groton with the three' stipulations stated at the bottom of Page 9 of
the minutes ; NANCY OSTRANDER2� seconded the motion .
VOTE : All in favor :"
M otion carried
TOTMAN : The whole Board , besides going to New York went to Trumansburg
to a State sponsored seminar on Zoning . Even though we did
not accomplish any revisions of the Ordinance , we did learn
about planning . We still have to get together or call a special
meeting to go over the Ordinance for revision . Gary and I met
but the Board should meet too . We need to discuss Motor Vehicle
Repair Shops , some things sould . be included and some things
in the codes are incongruous . We should set up a work session
to go over this .
Thursday , April 10 , 1986 at 7 : 30 p . m . was set up as a work session to go over
the Ordinance for revision .
WOOD : What is the story on Joe Hora subdivision ? I had an inquiry
about buying the last lot left up there on '�- Sovocool Hill Road .
RANKIN : He sold the one time , the Health Department could not get
drainage .
POST : The issue is / a is breaking the rules or asking what is the
status .
TOTMAN : Like I told Roger , without exploring and going to the files , I
can ' t tell .
WOOD : The question definitely7 , if an individual buys the last lot
can I issue him a building permit ?
TOTMAN : Are you sure it is the last lot ?
WOOD : No , I am not . I really don ' t know what he did . I do know the
parcel has been cut up .
RANKIN : There are three lots .
WOOD : Phillip Empson called me , he has a mobile home up the road
a bit .
TOTMAN : We have to get the tax maps out .
PIERSON : On Sovocool Hill Rd . , the Board authorized Walpole to sell a lot
then he could sell no more , from previous meetings .
PLANNING BOARD MEETING - 11 - March 25 , 1986
Motiondwas made that the meeting be adjourned . The next regular meeting
of the Planning Board will be Tuesday , April 15 , 1986 at 8 : 00 p . m .
Respectfully submitted ,
Ma Bare A . Palmer
TOWN OF GROTON
PLANNINGIuLBOARD."�"PUBLI.C:rHEARI NG
Tuesday , March 25 , 1986 , 80900tDp . m .
Application by ABRAHAM CONGDON of 593 West Groton Road for a Special Permit to
operate a Greenhouse business .
BOARD (*present ) PUBLIC PRESENT
*George Totman , Chairman Gary Wood , Zoning Enforcement
*Mike Post , Vice - Chairman Officer
*Nancy Ostrander , Cor . Secretary Colleen Pierson , Town Clerk
*Monica Carey Loretta Sherman , 595 W . Groton Rd .
*Verl Rankin Edward Sherman to " of
,,,Cecil Twigg Mr . & Mrs . Harvey Baker , 670 Peru Rd .
Randy Baker , 382 Van Ostrad Rd .
Richard Decker , 51 Bird Cemetery RD .
Carrie Hare , 690 Clark St . Ext ,
Robert Kluge , " It
of of
Abe Congdon , 593 W . Groton Rd .
G . TOTMAN , Chairman , opened the public hearing by reading the Legal Notice
attached , published March 10 , 1986 .
TOTMAN : Anybody who wants to comment on the issue may . The Board
has 45 days to act on a decision after the public hearing .
L . SHERMAN : I am very much for it .
E . SHERMAN : I have no objection .
TOTMAN : ( for clarification of business location ) Abe is on the West
Groton Road to the left of him the Sherman ' s live in a mobile
home , to the left of his driveway . His greenhouse and business
are off the road . In the summer time you probably cannot see
the business from the road . The next person nearby is across
the road and that is their daughter .
OSTRANDER : They have their own greenhouse , they are asking now for the
purpose of selling to the public ?
CONGDON : That ' s correct .
OSTRANDER : Do you plan on building anyq- new,, .buildings ?
CONGDON : I have intention of building . This is bigger than it was .
The main part of the greenhouse is up . The intention of the
permit was for a bigger building .
POST : All the parking will be off the street ?
CONGDON : Yes . The driveway is 550 feet long .
POST : Gary , do you have any problems with this ?
PLANNING BOARD PUBLIC HEARING - 2 - March 25 , 1986
Congdon
WOOD : No , I don ' t . I would like you to give me some guidelines as to
how you would classify that as far as activity . I was thinking
of 135 . 4 , which is Agricultural Sales .
OSTRANDER : Or 133 . 15 which is the same Agricultural Services with retail .
sales , under Commercial activity .
TOTMAN0 I think it would be classified as 133 . 15 .
If there is no further qeustions or comments we will close
the hearing .
I , MARGARET A . PALMER , DO CERTIFY that at the Public Hearing
held by. the Planning Board of the Town of Groton , County of Tompkins , on
Tuesday , March 25 , 1986 , did ' .take the minutes of aforesaid Hearing and the
foregoing is a true and exact copy of said hearing to the best of my ability .
TOWN OF GROTON
PLANNING BOARD PUBLIC HEARING
Tuesday , March 25 , 19869 8 : 00 p . m .
Application of ROBERT H . KLUGE of 690 Clark Street Extension for a Special Permit
to operate a portable saw mill both on the premises and at various other locations .
BOARD ( *present ) PUBLIC PRESENT
*George Totman , Chairman Gary Wood , Zoning Enforcement
*Mike Post , Vice -Chairman Officer
*Nancy Ostrander , Cor . Secretary Colleen Pierson , Town Clerk
*Monica Carey Loretta Sherman , 595 W . Groton Rd
*Verl Rankin Edward Sherman ,
Cecil Twigg Mr . & Mrs . Harvey Baker , 670 Peru Rd .
Randy Baker , 382 Van Ostrand Rd .
Richard Decker , 51 Bird Cemetery
Carrie Hare , 690 Clark St . Ext .
Robert Kluge , . "
Abe Congdon , 593 W . Groton Rd .
A . W . Roberts , 981 Rt . 222
W . A . Roberts , 782 Clark St . Ext ,
Helen D . Lane , 668 W . Groton Rd .
John D . Lane , to "
G . TOTMAN , Chairman , opened the public hearing by reading the Legal Notice
attached , published March 10 , 1986 . He also read a special note sent to GARY
WOOD by MR . KLUGE .
The operation of the TreeMill will be fore purpose of sawing
of logs at the customer ' s site by a portable ban saw ; there will
be some cutting on the customer ' s land site and board rough cut
form, This wood will be stored for a brief period in an existing
40 x 60 foot barn at Clark St . Ext . It is intended as a parttime
basis . The saw makes about as much noise as a lawn mower . You
can see a demonstration of the saw after March 15 ,
W . A . ROBERTS : I ' m all for it , I have no objection .
A . W . ROBERTS : I have no objection . I came to give Mr . Kluge my support .
HARE : The saw does make about as much noise as a lawn mower . He
has been running it since he brought it home from Indiana .
I , m not a person who likes a lot of noise but this does make
about as much noise as a lawn mower . The motor is not the
the saw . There is no high pitch wine .
KLUGE : The saw does not sing . It is a ban saw .
TOTMAN : It is not so much on site , it is going to various areas in the
countryside ?
KLUGE : 90 percent will be done at the location As bring logs out of the
woods , not necessarily at residence .
PLANNING BOARD PUBLIC HEARING - 2 - March 25 , 1986
Kluge
OSTRANDER : This would be similar to taking a wood splitter to somebody ' s
lot to split wood ?
TOTMAN Yes . Apparently there is no neighbor problems .
WOOD : Q The person in the house immediately to the south of you , Denise
Radway , she is not here tonight ?
KLUGE : She does not live in her house . She inherited it . We don ' t
know what the status is now .
WOOD : Where would you set the saw up ?
KLUGE : Probably , right now I have it by the milk house sie of the barn .
I have a drivein doorway on the Cortland side of the barn . I
have aconcrete pad there . Hopefully , I .will have to get a dozer
in there to take away the old silo . There is a pile of rubbish
to be gotten out of there ; on the east side of the barn .
WOOD : There is no close neighbor on that side ?
KLUGE : No . Actually , it is not convenient on the left side of the
barn . It would be difficult to get into the barn . Plus ,
possibly I will be putting up another building in that area
if things go right . I certainly can ' t come towards the house .
WOOD : Are you planning on retiring and doing this as full time ?
KLUGE : Not realy , I do have a couple of youngsters coming up .
TOTMAN : If there are no further questions or comments we will close the
public hearing . ' .
I , . MARGARET A . PALMER , DO CERTIFY that at the Public Hearing
held by the Planning Board of the Town of Groton , County of Tompkins , on
Tuesday , March 25 , 19860 did take the minutes of said hearing and the foregoing
is a true and exact copy of said hearing , to the best of my ability .
TOWN OF GROTON
PLANNING BOARD PUBLIC HEARING
Tuesday , March 25 , 1986 , T8 : 30 p . m .
Application of RICHARD DECKER of 51 Bird CemeteryRoad for a Special Permit of
the Land Use and Development Code of the Town of Groton in regards to a Motor
Vehicle Repair Shop .
BOARD ( *present ) PUBLIC PRESENT
*George Totman , Chairman Gary Wood , Zoning Enforcement
*Mike Post , Vice - Chairman Officer
*Nancy Ostrander , Cor . Secretary Colleen Pierson , Town Clerk
*Monica Carey Loretta & Edward Sherman , 595
*Verl Rankin W . Groton Rd .
Cecil Twigg Mr . & MRs . Harvey Baker , 670 PeruRd .
Randy Baker , 382 VanOstrand Rd .
Richard Decker , 51 Bird Cemetery
Abe Congdon , 593 W . Groton Rd .
Helen D . Lane , 668 W . Groton Rd .
John D . Lane ,
G . TOTMAM , Chairman , opened the public hearing by reading the Legal Notice
attached , published March 10 , 1986 .
H . . LANE : I am a neighbor and I have no objection to Mr . Decker ' 's
application . I would like to voice a concern we have . A
nieghbor close to Mr . Decker is running an unlicensed motor,
vehcile repair shop for a period of time . He also has had a
Junkyard there since November of 1985 . Here it is March ,, 25 ,
1986 . I ' m concerned with that on the corner . That erodes the
tintegtity of the Zoning Law . Eventually , that is going to foster
the attitude that the Zoning Law does not mean anything .
WOOD : I am aware . of the problem .
TOTMAN : In all fairness to Gary , he is the enforcement officer , when
he cites somebody for doing something illegal it goes before another
Board . He brings the citing in whether before the Justice , the
Zoning Board of Appeals or the Town Board . He has to do the
paperwork . What happens from that point on is not under his
control .
H . LANE : I am talking about the Warner Pierson property owned by Mr . Twigg .
He said so himself , that he is repairing cars .
L . SHERMAN : At one , two o ' clock in the morning he runs the motors .`
H . LANE : I ' m concerned about the integrity of the Law . How the people
see the Law enforced . Is somebody going easy on somebody for
some reason .
r"
PLANNING BOARD PUBLIC HEARING . 2 . March 25 , 1986
Decker
TOTMAN : No , that is not the case .
H . LANE : I think it is up to the Board that that conjecture does not
continue .
TOTMAN : I don ' t think I would be out of line in telling you , �because
the minutes of the meetings are public . That problem was addressed
two months ago . A deadline for that problem to be takin care
of was given .
L . SHERMAN : There is a different bunch of cars there now .
TOTMAN : Are they green license plates ?
WOOD : Green and white .
TOTMAN : I saw the place , there were 2 or 3 cars and a trailer with
green license plates on them .
H . LANE .* . The last deadline I was aware of was the end of February .
TOTMAN : We ' ll take care of that .
CONGDON : We '& 4�talso has about five reapir shop within a few miles .
DECKER : Originally I started out as a farm machinery repair shop .
In order to take care of modern farmer , they have cars , pickups ,
this would have to come under the New York State Repair .
- TOTMAN : Once you get our approval you can apply for a permit .
OSTRANDER : Is the barn built ? ( referring to map )
DECKER : Yes , it has a ten foot overhead door .
OSTRANDER : Is this proposed parking area or is it already there ?
DECKER : It is already there .
WOOD : Is it your intention to make this a full time occupation ?
DECKER : Not at the present time , no . I already hold a job at Cargill
Salt at night . Some time in the future I may or may not .
WOOD : Do you plan to make modications to the barn ?
DECKER : A little . It is not big enoughtfor a house , it is basically
28 by 48 barn with 2 doors .
Y
PLANNING BOARD PUBLIC HEARING . 3- March 25 , 1986
Decker
TOTMAN : The closest neighbor is about
WOOD : Noise carries , it doesn ' t matter how far away you are .
TOTMAN : If there are no further questions or comments , we ' ll close
the public hearing .
CONGDON : There is Joe Hora , Gary Lane , guy on Storm Road , Rider Bixler ,
guy on Bird Cemetery corner , Francis White . I don ' t know how
manymore you want or need . There is getting to be so many .
There ' s one on every corner .
TOTMAN0 Francis White has a junkyard , he has a permit .
CONGDON : What I ' m saying is within five miles we have six or seven repair
places .
TOTMAN0 Wey' ll look into it . The problem is when they do run loose
it is cheaper for Mr . Bixler to do that instead of going through
the Court costs .
DECKER : I was going to see how the guy on the corner made out . I figured
it was better to do it the right way .
H . LANE : I like to add a further comment . I ' m not concerned about the
numbers of peole doing things for a living . There are lots .
of greenhouse and lots of repair shops . My concern is we do
have a Zoning Law and other regulations and everyone should
comply with the regulations . As far as how many in business
if somebody has the ambition and interest to make money , I ' m
not going to stand in their way . I would like to see the rules
and regulations complied with .
TOTMAN : If no further comment we ' ll close the hearing .
I , MARGARET A . PALMER , DO CERTIFY that at the Public Hearing
held by the Planning Board of the Town of Groton , County of Tompkins , on
Tuesday , March 25 , 1986 did take the minutes of said hearing and the
foregoing is a true and exact copy of said hearing , to the best of my
ability .
n
TOWN OF GROTON
PLANNING BOARD
Tuesday , January 21 , 19W
BOARD ( *Present )
*Seorge Totman , Chairman Gary Wood , Zoning Enforcement
� Mikb Post , Vice Chairman Officer
*Nancy Ostrander , Cor . Sec . Roger Gleason
*6ecil Twigg
Monica Carey
*Verl Rankin
George Totman opened the meeting at 8315 p . m . Minutes of
the December , 1_ 98 (5!: (a> meeting were approved as presented .
R0QER GLEASON presented the Board with some questions
concerning his property on Old Stage Rd . ( running southwest
of Old Stage Rd . and west of Clark St . Ext . )
GLEASON : I ' ve approached you about this property before . At
the time it was decided that because the farm was
intersected by roads , each section divided by a road
were separate . That each section can be considered
separately and not as a whole . Correct `?
TOTMAN : That is what we agreed on .
GLEASON : Lot on the corner was sold to Burdick with a sub
division approval . The lot sold to Dunne was originally
my parents , sold originally in 1955 and sold to Dunne
around 1972 . The scond question is . dealing with how
do we count this ? If we sold one , could we sell three
more ; if we sold two , could we sell two more `: If
I sell one lot more , Burdick being one , whatever I sell
is two , is . there one remaining `?
TOTIVIAN : If you sold one lot , it made two lots out of one .
The Ordinance was chaged to read ' 3 ' . If you sell
two , with one remaining , that makes three .
gLEASON : When does this become a major subdivision `? Can I sell
four with one left ? If I go with a major subdivision
is it possible to cut through the red tape of roads ,
sewers , etc . ? I could do this several ways . I could
apply for a Minor Subdivision or a Rural Subdivision ,
depending on the size of the lots . Since I had a Major
Subdivision before , for the Burdick Lot , do we start
from scratch now % Can we make a subdivision out of
the rest of it ` I have two different maps here . One
showing a Minor Subdivision and one showing a Rural
Subdivision ,
TOTMAN : Which one are you going for
1
..- s
PLANNING BOARD January 21 , 1986
GLEASON : I have a buyer for the lot west of Burdick �' s . He does
not really want five acres . The question is how to go
about dividing up the area .
TOTMAN : What you have to do now is make a formal proposal
and get it in ten days before the next meeting .
GLEASON : Can I sell One lot without subdividing and then come
back when I want to sell more
TOTMAN : The problem that is facing us now with the diagram
showing three large parcels , one parcel of five acres
with 400 frontage the other has 600 foot . You might
sell one five acre with this offer and then this summer
want to split the lots up next to it . Then it would be
a Major Subdivision . To protect yourself , you might
better ask for a Major subdivision .
I
GLEASON : That 600 foot westside , unless somebody wants to fill
it in , is not more than one lot .
WOOD : Are there any natural boundaries ?
GLEASON : There is a swamp in the southwest corner , an open
ditch . We tried to tile drain it 20 years ago . It
could not be done . The question , what about a Major f
Subdivision , if I go with that can I waive the
requirements of roads , etc . ?
WOODS I think you should get a tax map with a larger scale
to see what makes sense in the area for lots . Make
a set plan and come in once and for all *
TOTMAN : If proper paperwork received , we ' ll call a meeting .
After reviewing Burdick Subdivision and the Ordinance Roger
was told the Burdick and Dunne property are considered part of
the original parcel . He can ' t sell more than three more piec !
without going to a Major Subdivision .
George Totman will appoint a committee to review the
Zoning Ordinance for inconsistencies and report back to them
Board at the March meeting . After rev =ew by the Planning
Board a proposal for changes to the Ordinance will be made
to the Town Board .
1
GARY WOOD brought up the question of Sherry OFBrien . ,
The letter of May 24 , 1985 , approving O ' Brien ' s Special Pe'
was reviewed . He is in violation of the stipulation to
maintain cars in an orderly fashion . Gary was instructed
the Board to send tim a letter to that fact .
Meeting was adjourned . The next regular meeting i
Planning Board will be March 18 � 1986 at 8 : 00 p . m .