HomeMy WebLinkAbout1985-05-21 T;
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TOWN OF GROTON
PLANNING BOARD
PUBLIC - HEARING
Tuesday , May 21 , 1985
BOARD ( *Oi%asent ) OTHERS PRESENT
MEW
*G . Totman , Chairman G . Wood , Zoning Officer
* M . Post , Vice - Chairman Sherry O ' Brien
*N . Ostrander , Cor . Secretary Donald'` Warner
*V . Rankin Alfred A . Shoneman
*M . Carey Georgia Schoneman
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*C . Tw gg Sandy Wilcox
J . McNeil Edward Wilcox
Mark Paquette
Thomas A . Guihan
PUBLIC HEARING on application of SHERRY O ' BRIEN for a Special Permit
of the Land Use and ' Oevelopment Code of the Town of Groton for a MOTOR
VEHICLE REPAIR SHOP AND USED CAR SALES at 100 Sharpsteen Rd . in the
Town of Groton .
G . TOTMAN , Chairman opened the meeting by reading the Public Notice
on the above application . ( attached )
TOTMAN : I open the meeting to anyone who would like to make : any
comments or questions on the above proposal .
WOOD : Sherry , would you explain to the groupd what you are planning
on doing and your plans to do things differently than what
has been done in the past ?
OTBRIENs Nothing , just what I have been doing . Before I was working
at Smith Corona , now it is my main living .
TOTMAN : You have read the Zoning Ordinance and you know what
" constitutes a Junkyard?
O ' BRIEN : Right .
TOTMAN : You are indicating that what you are doing does not violate
the Junkyard Ordinance?
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PLANNING BOARD PUBLIC HEARING - 2 - May 21 , 1985
O } BRIEN : Any junk I have will be moved . The vehicles there will be
fixed . There are two next to the woods that just as soon as
it is dry enough I will get them out of there .
TOTMANa Are there any comments or questions?
E . WILCOX : I have no objection whatsoever . I think it is a good thing
for the area . Like he said , he is trying to make a living .
That ' s his way of doing it . I drive by four or five times
a week , I see nothing wrong with what is around his house .
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It is certainly not a junkyard . I have no objections .
TOTMAN : The reason I ask Sherry that question , the Junkyard Ordinance
says 12 or more unlicensed cars not allowed ' . In the past ,
it has been run as a junkyard .
WILCOX : My son was there the other night to have something fixed
on his vehicle . I would rather go there to have one of
mine fixed than drive 20 to 30 miles .
POST: I drove by there tonight . I am concerned about the face
you tell us your going to remove the vehicles . We have no
date or security associated with that . The vehicles consid-
erect junk should be removed before we go any further .
O ' BRIEN : If you can control the weatherman .
POST : I understand that . Have you not been asked in the past to
move other vehicles?
O ' BRIEN : Yes .
POST : How long has this been going on? What I am really concerned
about are the ones down by the road , along the road there
was & ' , lot of vehicles .
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PLANNING BOARD PUBLIC HEARING - 3 - May 21 , 1985
O ' BRIEN : All been gotten rid of .
POST : The 7 or 8 along the road are not junk?
011BRIEN : Anything you are • not using for parts .
POST : I believe unlisted vehicles are classified as junk ; there
are 7 or 8 unlisted vehicles on the property .
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O ' BRIEN : They are there to be fixed . I think there are 5 with no
plates .
POST : I think there are 7 .
O ' BRIEN : The T- Bird is out -of- state ; the Chevy has plates ; the 170
pick - up has no plates ; has no plates ; the wreaker
has plates .
WOOD : The dump truck next to the wreaker with plates .
POST : My concern is you get started in business , it won ' t 'l�..be a
big priority for you to move the vehicles .
O ' BRIEN : I have no choice , that is my living .
TOT.MAN : I think when we go into the regular' meeting , we will discuss
this and probably contingencies will be placed on the permit .
The first part of the month we had a meeting on theAmining
of gravel on the otherside of Groton and contingencies
were put into it . We;, .wi11,711approve it if these things happen .
If approved , it would say you have to comply with the Junk-
yard Ordinance and certain requirements for a Motor Vehicle
Repair Shop . You can ' t get ten to fifteen cars around the
front yard .
O ' BRIEN : I have a junkyard , they can go there .
WOOD : It is out of town .
PLANNING BOARD PUBLIC HEARING - 4- May 21 , 1985
TOTMAN : I mean on that property .
Does anybody else have anything to add , comments or
questions? If not ; the call the Hearing closed . 745p . m .
I , MARGARET A . PALMER , DO CERTIFY that at the Hearing for
the proposal of SHERRY O ' BRIEN for a Motor Vehicle Repair Shop and Used
Car Sales on Sharpsteen Rd . , Town of Groton , I did take the minutes and
the foregoing is a true and exact copy of said Hearing , to the best of
my ability .
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The Town Board o ENECTED Town of Groton
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101 Conger Boulevard
Groton , N . Y . 13073
LEGAL NOTICE
TOWN OF GROTON
PRASE TAKE NOTICE , that the Planning Board , Town of Groton .
County of Tompkins , State of New York , will hold a public hearing
at the Town Hall , Conger Boulevard , Groton , N . Y . , on Tuesday ,
May 21 , 1985 , at 700 P . M . for the purpose of considering the
application of Sherry H . O ' Brien of 100 Sharpsteen Road for a
Special Permit of the Land Use and Development Code of the Town
of Groton in regards to a Motor Vehicle Repair Shop and Used
Car Sales .
All persons interested will be heard .
George L . Totman , Chairman
Groton Town Planning Board
Dated : May 6 , 1985
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TOWN OF GROTON i
PLANNING BOARD
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Tuesday , May 219 1985
BOARD ( *present ) OTHERS PRESENT
*G . Totman , Chairman G . Wood , Zoning Enforcement Officer
*M . Post , Vice - Chairman Mark W . Paquette , Vil . Ping Brd
*N . Ostrander , Cor . Secretary Thomas A . Guihan , Vil . Ping Brd
*V . Rankin Alfred A . Schoneman
*M . Carey. Georgia Schoneman
*C . Twigg Donald Payne
J . McNeil Mary Payne
Laura B . Jennings l
Dick Rice
A . Jaynor
G . TOTMAN called the meeting to order . Minutes of the April 16 and 30
meetings were approved as written .
Site Plan Review : Schoneman application -for a Mobile Home Park , Champlin
. Rd . Town of Groton .
G . TOTMAN : Mr . and Mrs . Schoneman are requesting to put two trailers on two
acres of land . There seems to be some controversy whether this should be
dealt with as 2 dwelling units on par&cAof land or a trailer park . The
regular Zoning Ordinance calls for one dwelling unit on a parcel of"land with
200 foot frontage . If requested to be a park , you could put 7 trailers on
an acre of land It seems to be a problem of determining what constitutes
a . trailer park .
*Mobile Home Park definition read from Ordinance *
The problem , we have here tonight is - is it a park or not , can you allow
more than 2 dwelling units on 200 feet frontage ? Our Ordinance says one
dwelling unit per 200 feet . �_ ; „ � r :� rr », 4:�
C . TWIGG : What is the object of two trailers?
G . SCHONEMAN : One is my mother ' s trailer . We are selling our home and have
to take her trailer with us as long as they are in need of its -
* Query? Was recommendation to Town Board for
revision of Zoning Ordinance to reduce frontage
requirements for multiple dwellings passed? Did
this eliminate the requirement of 200 ft . frontage
per dwelling on a parcel of land?
G . TOTMAN : Our job is to interpret the Ordinance , not to be for or against
what people are trying to do . If we can ' t fit something in with what is
written in the Ordinance we have to accept or reject it with reasons .
If we reject something you have. the other route by going to the Zoning
Board of Appeals and asking for a variance .
PLANNING BOARD MEETING - 2 - May 21 , 1985
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M POST : Does it fit the definition of a Mobile Home Park?
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All criteria are met except for ' rent to the public ' .
G . SCHONEMAN : Just my mother and father will live in the trailer . Once
they no longer need it , it would be taken out . We have no intention of `
renting a trailer to the public .
C . TWIGG : So it does not fit a Mobile Home Park ; it does not fit a
multiply dwelling ; not enough road frontage to fit definition . Their
only route is the ZBA . I
G . WOOD : I think it is crucial whether or not the Town Board passed that
change in the law .
G . TOTMAN : That was only for multiple dwellings .
G . WOOD : What you did was to strike the frontage requirement from
the Zoning Ordinance . ' a lot 200 feet and 2 dwelling units per acre '
C . TWIGG : Are there separate septic systems? j
A . SCHONEMAN : There will be one for two trailers . If we decided to rent
the other trailer we would have to have two septic systems .
C . TWIGG : That is why the other shows on the map?
A . SCHONEMAN : Mr . Wood said just in case we want to rent that one , we have
to go to the separate septic . '
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M . POST ; If Gary ' s recollection is right and it was passed , this fits in
that classification . We have to find out whether Gary has read it right
and whether the Town Board passed it . `
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G . TOTMAN : What is your timetable ?
A . SCHONEMAN : We have the land all fitted out . There is no time element . I
G . SCHONEMAN : We can ' t put the house up for sale until we know we can do
this . If we get the okay we can do things on the land , get the septic
in and pay for it as we go along .
G . TOTMAN : If time is not a big factor , we will get back to the Town Attorney
and the Town Board to find out what they have done and get back to you .
As we read the Ordinance now it says 200 feet per dweling unit . If the
only other way to go is a Mobile Home Park , you have to go through things
asking for a park .
G . SCHONEMAN : How come the Ordinance allows 7 trailers on an acre in a
park and not 2 in park?
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PLANNING BOARD MEETING - 3- May 21 , 1985
G . TOTMAN : There are diferent control regulations for a park . If you j
allow " mor than one trailer an acre of land in a regular area .the Town does
not have control as it does with a park . The criteria is different for
a. park than for 1 or 2 dwelling units on a parcel of land . You have to
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go through the Health Departments you have to have an Environmental Impact
Statement as to what effect on the environment in the area . You don ' t need
that for what you want to do * you require roads in the park and a sewage
system . We don ' t have the provisions as yet to allow you to do what you i
want to do . We understood this problem would come up and recommended
a change in the Ordinance .
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D . PAYNE : You recommended a change for more than 1 dwelling unit be placed
on 200 foot frontage?
C . TWIGG : What it was for was situations like they have , put an addition
on a home .
D . PAYNE : This is not an addition . This is 2 separate dwelling units .
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C . TWIGG : An apartment within an apartment complex dwelling unit .
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G . TOTMAN : We had multiple dwellings that did not come �j n for permits .
We decided , in the public interest , to , go for that particular area required
200 foot for every dwelling unit . We recommended change the required
frontage for dwelling units with41units'' inside of it .
Co TWIGG : We did not approve separate dwellings . We approved multiple
dwelling.� units . We never came up against what they are talking about here .
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D . PAYNE : Mr . Wood , is one dwelling unit allowed per 200 foot road frontage?
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G . WOOD : That ' is correct if it ' s true the Town Board did not make any
changes .
D . PAYNE : The Zoning Ordinance you have in front of you now , what does it
say? `
G . TOTMAN : It says 200 foot road frontage per dwelliing unit .
D . PAYNE : Is there anyting in front of the Town Boar right now that has
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a change to that ?
G . TOTMAN : Not to- my knowledge . There is some confusion as to what the
Town Board has done . If they have changed it , we don ' t know that . . What I
thing would be in `the best interest of the Town and you people is if we
go back to the Town Board and meet with a representative from the Board
and the Town Attorney and get . a clarification of what we have . If it is
not there , we can ' t pass it . If it is there we have to have a reason for
not passing it . If we do not pass something , the people have. the perogative
of going to a different Board and asking for a variance . Normally , they
have to show hardship or whatever . Before we go any further , we must find
out exactly what is what . After the meeting with the Town Board and
the Town Attorney we will get back to you .
PLANNING BOARD MEETING - 4 - May 21 1985
A . SCHONEMAN : We can still .put in for a trailer park?
G . TOTMAN : Yes .
D . RICE : Can you explain why . the 200 foot frontage was originally put
in the Ordinance?
G . TOTMAN : The main reason being that at that particular time the Health
Department regulations requiredenough room for sewage . There was also a
lot of prolems in some areas of the -,'Town with 100 foot or 120 foot frontage
the houses would get too close together and saturate the ground with water
and it would affect the wells . It was mainly to protect people so they
would not get into trouble later on .
D . RICE : On the map , is there a feeder stream to Fall Creek?
G . TOTMAN : Yes ,
C . TWIGG : In the bck corner , avay from the trailers . The stream is not as
critical as the water supply is .
G . TOTMAN : Does the Board agree to what we should dospare there any other
questions?
C . TWIGG : Could they have the option of going right now , .f we turn it`
down , before the ZBA? If they opt to go to the ZBA , what would they do with
it ?
G . TOTMAN : They are a court within themselves .
C . TWIGG : If they wanted to move faster they could get to the ZBA ; maybe
your route.= ais better . If we cannot do anything with it then go to the ZBA .
G . TOTMAN : This would be deferring the decision for 30 days . If we acted
right now , according to the book , we would have to reject it . If he wants
us to clarify it with the Town Board and the Town Attorney , if there is a
question in his mind , then we will do that .
D . RICE : Mr . Totman , I have another reason for being down here tonight .
Were you people aware of another trailer just above where these folks want
to live with a new septilc system . . . . . . I stand corrected , he never applied .
The guy came to me for permission to put it down there , I could not give him
permission . The land is next to mine . There is• already a double wide there .
G . TOTMAN : The regular mobile home application goes to the Zoning Officer ,
D . PAYNE : They want to put a second one on it . I am a land owner on
Champlin Rd . My concern is that if someting like this gets approved we
will end up . with another OGden Road area . I just don ' t think that it is the
right thing to do . From what has been discussed her and as far as the
Zoning Ordinance is concerned right now 200 foot frontage per dwelling unit
is requirement and I don ' t see how that could be dismissed totally without
seriously looking at possible complications .
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PLANNING BOARD MEETING - 5 - May 21 , 1985
G . . TOTMAN : If the Board agrees to hear no further comments , we will table
it and I will take it up with Teresa Robinson and Jack Fitzgerald and
take direction from that and either call a Special Meeting or wait until
the next regular meeting . If Town Attorney reads it as is , I could let you
know what it looks like from their standpoint . I could let you know what
action would probably be taken . If anybody applies for a trailer park
and meets all the requirements and regulations they can put 7 trailers
per acre .
G . WOOD : A trailer park requires public water supply and septic system .
Site Plan Review : I . Gleason application for a Bed and Breakfast on
$ld Stage Rd . , Town of Groton .
G . TOTMAN : Use two bedrooms to make extra money . She does not plan to
add to the buildings parking is adequate .
'G . WOOD : I don ' t know how to handle from the Building Zone Regulations .
That requires a change of use which requires a new permit .
G . TOTMAN : I explained to Irene Gleason if this was passed she would have
to check with the Health Department ,
G . WOOD : In Lansing the Rose Inn , the Health Department inspects motels
and they cut off , I think , at 8 rooms .
N . OSTRANDER : She is talking about Cortland students and parents . If
we pass this she understands she has to get the other approval ? If you
turn it down you have to have a reason for it .
G . TOTMAN : Can we find anything to turn it down on .
V . RANKIN : I make the motion we approve the Site Plan Review for a
Bed and Breakfast on Old Stage Rd . , Town of Groton , proposed by Irene
Gleason . - M . CAREY seconded the motion .
VOTE : 5 yes and 1 abstained
Motion carried .
G . TOTMAN introduced MARK W . PAQUETTE AND THOMAS A . .GUIHAN of the Village
Planning Board . They were at the Town Planning Board to observe and
propose working together on future comercial developments in the Town and
Village of Groton .
T . GUILAN : I am fairly new to the Planning Board . With the Zoining of
the corner property on the hill , one of the things our Board did not under-
stand and recognize was there is no commercially zoned property of any
magnitude . in the Village of Groton . That is why they wanted to go up on
the hill '�II,6lith the exception of the Old Corona site , which is limited to
2 . some acres and in a flood zone . We had the Corps of _' Engineers run a
survey with a flood zone plan . If a company came in and applied to HUD
PLANNING BOARD MEETING - 6 - May 21 , 1985
HUD would be sure that a flood zone plan was in effect and the insurance
would be astronomical . At the Public Meeting it .- was .found that there is
no other property in the Village for development that is why we went up on
the hill . If the business goes , they have to the Town for
some of the land . What we thought we aught to do was let ' s get to know
each other. Tie y,)Towntz.,hest: expansion of land , it might go up that Route 222
if you want to do way with the farms . If we are going to grow rather than
be a bedroom community we aught to sit down together so we understand
each other . We ' d like to talk over with the Board and understand what
we ' re trying to do because the Town has something , the Village has cheap
electric and septic but no land in the Village of Groton . If time goes
on and you want to promote the Town and Village together with cooperation .
If industry comes in have to cooperate and talk it over . The Town would
have to give up farm land ; maybe that is not the right thing to do . Route
222 is zoned commercial .
G . WOOD : Only on the north side to Lick St .
T . GUILAN : Right now we ' re just looking at long range possibilities .
G . WOOD : If you take a look at the Zoning Ordinance that kind of commercial
undertaking , . is allowed in any Zone with a Site Plan Review . That really
is the best of all worlds . They have to come to the Board for approval .
One thing you said is wrong , the Village cannot extend the power lines
outside their Corporate lines . If firm goes in on parcel on hill they
have to keep building on the Village land .
V . RANKIN : Can ' t they annex that land?
G . WOOD : If it is agreeable with the Town , yes .
C . TWIGG : What reaon would Town not agree to annex land to 9illage?
V . RANKIN : Probably the Town Tax base .
G . TOTMAN : You are right in a way . This particular thing is good for
the Town and Village if it comes off it means 400 jobs in the Groton area
and invariably a lot of people move towards where they work . Some people
might think that is good or bad . It would create more business for the
activities already here . The only other thing to look at pull lights
out of Town for a trailer park .
T . GUILAN1111t ":Why I asked for this meeting is to consider more cooperation
between the Town and the Village .
G . . TOTMAN : We are an advisory Board to the Municipality . This particular
case of annexation , I think they are going to go with it . We , as a group ,
are charged with planning for future of Groton . We make recommendation
to the Town of Groton Board .
C . TWIGG : As far as that goes we have the facilities for what the Village
wants to do .
PLANNING BOARD MEETING - 7 - May 21 . 1985
'G . TOTMAN : Even though we have the facilities to do it , that does not
help . If another concern wants to come in theWould still have to annex to
the Village to get the benefits for what they ' re coming in for .
The Village should change their Ordinance to read like ours . We put
recommendations to the Town Board ,
T . GUILAN : We ' ll take that up at our next meeting .
G . WOOD : The flood zone does make it impossible to build there . It may
be expensive zone for insurance but substantially if is not prohibitive .
Decision on request of . SHERRY O ' BRIEN for Motor Vehicle Repair Shop and
Used Car Sales on Sharpsteen Rd . - ' in the Town of Groton .
POST : It is either in compliance or out of compliance . How long have people
been trying to get him to come into compliance?
RANKIN : I ' d say for the last five or six years .
G . TOTMAN : Could you see the cars from the road?
M76 POST : I did not see them . ?s,.w;
G . TOTMAN : Those cars are- not in contention , they are not visable from
the road . Supposing we pass with the stipulation he abides by rules of
the Junkyard Ordinance? That would mean there are other places around that
are licensed:v,,to. ,ssh1¢ cars that have more than 2 unlicensed cars .
N . OSTRANDER : He has a dealers license , he can have unlicensed cars on
there .
G . WOODJ (. :; Could you do something like refused to come in for a Site Plan .
and dictate one to him . This is where you will have the cars . Can you
limit the number of cars , then go on with size of sign , etc . Can you approve
with definite criteria?
N . OSTRANDER *. Only if they are in the Ordinance . We can ' t dictate where
to put the cars with a Repair Shop .
M . POST : Don ' t we have to start some place?
G . TOTMAN : We have approved other Repair Shops around the Town and they
have cars all around . There is one on the road where I live . The guy
had more cars than this one had and because he did not have the controversy
he got a license . They are all parked in a row , he complied with the rules
and he is licensed for fixing and selling cars . This is exactly what
Sherry is applying for . We have to make � d m comply with the Junkyard
Ordinance . I don ' t think you can turn somebody down for anything other than
something in the Ordinance . We have to be objective with what there is now .
Everybody in that neighborhood got a letter . They were not here tonight .
PLANNING BOARD MEETING - 8- May 21 , 1985
N . OSTRANDER : We have to start somewhere but I don ' t think Sherry is the
best place to start .
that who
M . POST : It is our responsibility to make sure/everyone/comes to our
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attention complies with the rules .
G . TOTMAN : Our responsibility comes when they come to apply for it . If
others are doing it illegally , its Gary ' s problem .
** The Board reviewed SHERRY O ' BRIEN ' s application for
a Motor Vehicle Repair Shop and Used Car Sales**
V . RANKIN@ Does he comply with the Ordinance?
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G . WOOD : I don ' t think so at presenttime . He is in violation of the f
Junkyard Ordinance .
C . TWIGG : His parking is not paved or ravel . He p g p g just drives into the �
yard . With other shops there is a place specially for parking cars .
M . POST : Is it necessary to have a Site Plan Review to put up a Motor ,
Vehicle Repair Shop? We accepted what he presented to the Board and presented
that to the public at the Hearing . Now we make the stipulation for a Site
Plan Review . We have to have a good reason for turning him down .
N . OSTRANDER : What stipulations are you considering?
G . TOTMAN : Cars in a rowjso not offensive to the neighborhood .
M . POST : If we made a mistake we have to admit we, .-. made a mistake and
go back and do it by the book . i
N . OSTRANDER : How many other service stations have we had in the last six
months that did not go through a Site Plan Review?
M . CAREY : People did not show up , they must not object to it . I have
no opinion of him personally .
G . TOTMAN : My problem with Mike ' s proposal is we can go back '',through
all this and still wind up making the same decision and put in the same
guidelines . The reason I suggested guidelines , if passed with guidelines
and he does not comply with them , he can be taken to court .
C . TWIGG : I agree , it is no use spinning our wheels any more to go back
and start again unless he takes us to court we would have to have it more
in order . He needs a Site Plan Review ,
G . TOTMAN : We have his application .
C . TWIGG : We don ' t have a Site Plan to review .
G . TOTMAN : In all sincerity , in looking at shops with permits do they
leave cars , in the same place as the Site Plan Review?
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PLANNING BOARD MEETING - 9 - May 21 , 1985
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G . WOOD : No , but the corallary to that is there needs to be a tightening up
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of that enforcement .
G . TOTMAN : It . would be good for the members of the Planning Board to sit
in on other Town Planning Board meetings . They look for problems . We take
problems as they come along . This Board has more stuff brought to it i
than other Boards do .
M,;1
ev POST : Let ' s go by the book . He wants a Motor Vehicle Repair Shop ,
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G . TOTMAN : We have his application with a map and considered that the
Site Plan Review and called for a Public Hearing . We could ask for him
to submit a full Site Plan of the layout before the` Zoning Officer issues
the permit , ( Section 440 ) . Instead of going backwards , we could set the
guidelines down .
V . RANKIN : You feel you want to pass it and tell him what he has to do?
G . TOTMANa I think so . Is what he is asking to do at thim time diferent
from what we have granted other people? With them there were no stipulations ,
no problem before hand .
C . TWIGG : If- we have a Site Plan and we approve this and he puts cars all
around we can go back and say ' look when you brought in and applied for a
permit you confined the vehicles in a certain area ' . I say we approve it
with the stipulation the Board approves a Site Plan .
V . RANKIN made the motion the Proposal for a Motor Vehicle Repair Shop
and Used Car Sales presented by SHERRY O ' BRIEN beiapproved with the
following stipulations :
1 ) Cars be kept in an orderly row
2 ) Noise kept at a minimum
3 ) Submit a full .Site Plan for review and approval by the Planning
Board before the Zoning Officer issues a permit .
C . TWIGG seconded the motion .
VOTE : All in favors motion carried
N . OSTRANDER made motion the meeting be adjourned .
Next regular meeting of the Manning Board will be held the third
Tuesday of June being June 18 , 1985 at 8 : 00 p . m . ` :
A Special Meeting possibly, could be called to review the Site Plan submitted
by SHERRY O ' BRIEN before that date .
Respectfully submitted
Merger A . Palmer
Stenographer