HomeMy WebLinkAbout1985-04-16 • t
MINUTES OF SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING HELD TUESDAY , APRIL 16 , 1985 AT 7 : 30 P . M .
JOINTLY WITH PLANNING BOARD .
Those present : Teresa M . Robinson , Supervisor
Ellard L . Sovocool , Councilman
Gordon C . VanBenschoten , Councilman
Donald E . Cummings , Councilman
Joseph H . Graham , Councilman
Jack Fitzgerald , Attorney
Also present : Leland Cornelius , Gary Wood , Planning Board Members - To-'aao ;
George Totman , Cecil Twigg , Nancy Ostrander , Monica Carey ,
Verl Rankin
Purpose of meeting was to discuss Gleason gravel mine application located
on Clark Street Extension in the Town of Groton ,
Robinson : Two representatives from DEC met with George Totman , Gary Wood ,
Jack Fitzgerald , Colleen Pierson and myself to discuss who
would be lead agency for the Gleason gravel pit . If DEC is
lead agency , they have no objections or restrictions . If
Town is lead agency , we can put restrictions on it . This is
called a negative declaration and he has to mine under our
rules . DEC will put it into their regulations .
Fitzgerald : Negative declaration means no impact to environment .
All Members : Discussed difference between negative and positive declara-
tion . . . . . . .
Robinson : Neighbors are not too happy and indicated some objections
at Planning Board hearing . Some concerns were road , pipeline ,
children and not able to have new road . We should combine
efforts of both Boards with DEC behind us .
Ostrander : Is there a written notice of lead agency? Harrington said it
should be the DEC .
Robinson : The Town is the lead agency . Harrington does not work for the
DEC . He has his own business and does related work .
Totman : We ' re here to decide our limitations or restrictions , some of
which we discussed the other day at our meeting with DEC . . . . .
daylight hours , limit road , weight , bond . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Robinson : DEC is satisfied with information provided by Roger . They
will issue permit once Town approves with restrictions . It
doesn ' t pay to haul gravel in small trucks . Large trucks will
vibrate and disturb setup we now have . Can ' t hurt road because
it needs repair . Can ' t travel Lick Street because it would
ruin road . Would have to travel east on Clark Street Extension
to Salt Road to Route 222 .
( Minutes continued by Margaret Palmer , Steno
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TOWN OF GROTON
TOWN BOARD and PLANNING BOARD
Tuesday , April 16 , 1985
TOWN BOARD ( *present PLANNING BOARD ( *Present ) OTHERS PRESENT
*T . Robinson , Supervisor *G . Totman , Chairman C . Pierson , Town
*E . Sovocool *N . Ostrander , Cora Sec . Clerk
*G . VanBenschoten *V . Rankin J . Fitzgerald , Town
*D . . Cummings *M . Carey Attorney
*J . Graham *C . Twigg L . Cornelius , Highway
M . Post Supervisor
J .-McNeil
C . P_s- erson recorded the first 20 minutes of the meeting of the combined
Boards to discuss the proposed Gravel Mine on Clark St . Extension , Towii of
Groton ; proposed by ROGER GLEASON .
ROBINSON They . ( gravel trucks ) would go by Salt Rd . and not be limited
to size .
TOTMAN : Take what road to the Salt Rd . ? ?
ROBINSON : Clark St . Extension ,
OSTRANDER & How long before the bridge would be settled?
CORNELIUS : The bridge would be all right for now ; the water line through
there I don ' t know if ' it `will ever be settled .
OSTRANDER6 We can ' t set a time limit ; . it , has to be all the time ?
ROBINSON : One limitation you can set is how long you can . have him do it .
CORNELIUS : The ,waterline is the Village waterline .
TOTMAN : To go this route would not be good . for the waterline ?
CORNELIUS :
TTr+IGG : You ' re not sure what the impact would be ?
CORNELIUS : The waterline around the Village has - been busted by the trucks .
ROBINSON : The other thing is the budget is set up . for . the Town to put
a new 'road on Clark St . ; fixing of the first part of the road '
_ . south of the bridges will be late in the summer . The Town
will attempt to put in a road somewhere .around September .
As far as that is concerned ,, if Roger wanted to work as
much of as . he could , he could work over the period of June
July , and August . There is not a great deal of gravel in
there .
TOWN BOARD and PLANNING BOARD - 2 - April 16 , 19.85
OSTRANDER0 We can ' t determine that now , it is up to him how much he
wants to sell .
ROBINSON ,@ We can . determine how long we let him go over the road ,
TOTMAN : What you are . saying , Corny , is if he gets permission to do
this , once you start the new road you would like him to
stop running trucks . over it ?
CORNELIUS : If we put the road in , he will be back oil it next year ,
TOTMAN , Would that work , next year , after the road has settled down?
GRAHAMe . Was the road you are putting - in designed for that type of
travel ?
CORNELIUS , Not that heavy of a road , You people have to decide what ,
amount you want to put , .in to it : We .plan to level and blacktop
CAREY ; Is the road wide enough for two trucks ?
CORNELIUS : No .
TOTMAN : Was it widened on one side and not the other side ?
CORNELIUS : The road was broken. :offe We 'put . 'some. paving up one side this
year . We will go back and put the other side level to it . .
TOTMANO When you do what you are doing this year , are' . you going to . . . .
it this year ?
CORNELLUS : We did not ' go onto .his property (referring to Ashcroft from
Public Hearing minutes of 473 - 85 ) . We just filled in the
side of ' the road ,
OSTRANDER@ At the Public Hearing , they said it was not wide enough .
CORNELIUS : It is an 18 foot road . We did not have funding for a larger
road .
TOTMANo Is there any . .problems passing a snowplow?
FITZGERALD ; With the rare exception , Town roads have a. 49 . 5 foot right - of-way .
In reading the minutes of the Public Hearing , the people were
saying it was paved on one side and not the other . You have
the right to right -of-way of 49 . 5 feet ,
CORNELIUS : We did not get off the shoulder of the road ,
CUMMINGS0 You are going to blacktop that this year ?
TOWN BOARD and PLANNING BOARD .3 - April 16 , 1985
CORNELIUS : We were going to as far as the gravel bank .
CUMMINGS : It would be foolish to put in a new road and then drive the
heavy trucks over it .
TOTMANs. One guideline could be that he wait until September to blacktop
its another guideline is he can use the road until the new
road goes in .
CORNELIUS : It still might break up the new road with the heavy traffic .
GRAHAM : That short section of .Salt Rd . , Peruville Rd . and Stevens Rd .
that the salt trucks went across , was, a mess .
ROBINSON : It would be like ' that on Lick St . The thing is we have to think
of not just this 'year but next year and the : year after that ;
or you can say to Roger he can ' t have it for only so long .
You can say . to him he: can do . it this year � and next year and
after that take only 1000 yards out'. He , can. do that without
a permit , anyway . What you -have to -decide is what restrictions
- you are going, .to put on - him . We don ' t know how much * he
wants to take out of there .
TOTMAN : He does not knoweeither .
ROBINSONG He can only go so far down: if he is going to bring the soil
. -back over it to ` reclaim it . : Hefigured 19 to 20 feet . That
is. -not a lot of gravel .
TWIGG : It will depend on whether he has a market for it .
OSTRANDER , Was ' the Town thinking of using any of ' this gravel ?
ROBINSON , No , we are through with it .
CUMMINGS * He is going to sell' this to the County .
CAREY : That was what he was talking about at the meeting .
CUMMINGS : I would feel different if it v , .,s going to the County than
a stranger hauling it out of there . .
TOTMAN : He indicated he would sell -- to the County but. he also indicated
he would open it to .anybody that wanted it . The County would
probably be the biggest dealer . What road are they thinking
of doing?
CORNELIUS * Smith Road from Spring St . to West Groton Road .
TOWN BOARD and PLANNING BOARD -4 - April 16 , 1985
CUMMINGS : A thousand ton , only make 50 ton per load . . . . . . .
CORNELIUSa That is why he has to have a permit . If they raise it out
of the swamp , that takes a lot of fill .
OSTRANDER : When are they going to be doing that ? . If he needs it after
you start the road then the County can ' t use it .
CORNELIUS : That is why we say leave it until September . The County would
be done before then .
TWIGG : Is there one time of year these trucks do- more damage than
another?
CORNELIUS : _ Right now is the worst time .
TWIGG : You - could put restrictions that they . could not run on it then .
CORNELIUS : The original restrictions .were from Mayto '`,September . ( referring
to permit of 1984 ) .
CUMMINGS : If it was really .dry, would ..that hurt the waterline ?
CORNELIUS : Maybe not , I don ' t know.. - If it' did • bust- it would wash the
road out . .
VAIy
VanBENSCHOTEN : • Did they use duct tile , steel ?
CORNELIUS : Yes , it is steel castings . It looks like : it is good. .
ROBINSON : The thing we have to do now is decide what he can do .
OSTRANDER : Restrict him from the time to . finish in September or when
they start to blacktop the road whichever came first . If
they don ' t start paving until September and he has the .ca:pability ,
he can takeout until September .
ROBINSON : A lot has to do with the weather .
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OSTRANDER : You can give him a dealine with leeway . What about the signs ?
Does he have to have signs that trucks use this route ?
ROBINSON : They are not suppose to go the other way . He is going to
hgave to take care of that . He is going ' to have to have
a flagman out there because people coming up there , it is
a blind spot where the trucks are coming out of . Definitely ,
they . have to go the other way .
OSTRANDER & What I am saying is to stop. them from going that way he . is
going to have to post signs . If people go across the bridge s
who is responsible ? . If he told them and they still went
across the bridge ?
TOWN BOARD and PLANNING BOARD - 5- April 16 , 1985
FITZGERALD : The . Bond for this is a question also . The DEC is requiring
a Bond for reclamation of the land . If we are thinking of a
Performance Bond , it is not a practical matter . You have
to put - up money , particularly if not in business . You have
to show security .
TOTMAN : What Jack is saying is a Bond is e.asyeto; get n ,most cases .
TheeBond with the DEC is only a Bond to put the topsoil
back on . A Bond to protect the pipe and the roads , which
would be an indeterminate amount of money , you have to set
a figure ; which would be $ 25 to 50 thousand dollars . Most
Bonding Companies , because Roger is not in a particular
business , would require him to have the money in the bank
to . cover .the bond if something went wrong .
ROBINSON : ' What you really want to know now , is this has to be sensible .
You don ' t want to deprive him of business . If you say day -
light hours , Clark : St . to Salt ;Rd .' . . . . .
TOTMAN : That is for this year , how about next year?
SOVOCO.Oks- : Could make it for all three. years : '
CORNELIUS : That would be all right .
TOTMAN : DEC in Syracuse indicated he could go on for five years .
Listening to Cornelius , indication is maybe the first year
it would be all gone . We might not have to worry about the
second year . If he agreed to daylight hours ; we have talked .
to him about fencing it off at the driveway ; have him travel
to Clark St . to Salt Rd . ; this particular year he would have
to stop by September 1 and not start before May 1 and close
October 1 next year .
TWIGG : The First of October you don ' t have frost trouble yet .
The - First of November would be all right after this year .
OSTRANDER You ' re not going to start before September ( referring to
Cornelius ) ?
CORNELIUS : I ' m going to start work on this end ( south side of bridge )
but he is not going to come this way .
TOTMAN : For the year 1985 he can operate from May 1 to September 1 ;
the year . 1986 and 87 he can operate from May 1 to November i ;
with limit . of operation to three years . Roger talked about
three years ; the people from DEC said he could go five years
according . to them ..
ROBINSON : Also require a flagman and also a sign that says ' truck
crossing ' . There are a lot of people coming around' that curve .
TOWN BOARD 'and PLANNING BOARD - 6 April 16 , 1985
FITZGERALD * The sign should meet the DOT standards .
TWIGGr Whose responsibility is it to put it in?
OSTRANDER : . The Town buys the signs for ' Slow Children ' .
FITZGERALD : I would think you would, want him to put up the sign .
TOTMAN : ( Briefing Verl Rankin on earlier discussion ) There was a .
meeting Monday . ( 4/ 15/85 ) morning with the DEC . They said
the gravel mine was alright . . We decided to take into
consideration e ;,` the things that came out of the Public
Hearing . I am mentioning them in this . to protect the Town
and to maintain a little control over the operation and to
let people know we listened to them and are doing something
to the benefit of the public interest . We will require him
to have a sign designating a ' truck entrance ' . . We will have
another public . informational meeting .to answer their
questions .
ROBINSON : The Town Board is the Lead Agency and we are suggesting
to the DEC these stipulations and . also we are putting.
restrictions on the operation .
TOTMAN : What I just read from the Town Board and the DEC to the
Planning Board. , the Planning Board will ` act accordingly .
GRAHAM : After the Public Hearing , do you ttnnk the people . will be
satisfied with this ?
TOTMAN : No , they won ' t be satisfied .
GRAHAM : You are ignoring them ?
TOTMAN : The limitations i.s , a' compromise. :
of the situation . In this
case questions were brought up that if the informaion was
there that night , this would not be a problem .
GRAHAM : Did ;.you give- them :: .indicaton . you°;.were not turning your back
on .their concerns ? That you are using . what they said? .
TOTMAN0 What I did was tell them that no matter what we did we would
have another meeting and tell them what we were doing .
Joint meeting of the Town Board and Planning Board was adjourned at 8 * 30 p . m .
when the Planning Board held its regular meeting .
TOWN OF GROTON
PLANNING BOARD
Tuesday , April 16 ,. 1985
BOARD (present ) OTHERS PRESENT
*G . Totman , Chairman C . Pierson , Town Clerk
*N . Ostrander , Cor . Sec . T . Robinson , Town Supervisor
*V . , Rankin Carl and Darlene O ' Neil
*M . Carey Sherry . O ' Brien
* C . . Twigg
M . ' Post
J . McNeil
G . Totman , Chairman , opened the meeting at 8 # 30 p . m . N . Ostrander made
the motion he minutes of the March , 1985 , meeting .be approved ; V . Rankin
seconded the motion ; Motion carried .
Site Plan Review for a proposal by CARL AND DARLENE O ' NEIL for a Wood
and . Craft Shop at ; 596 West Groton Road , Town of Groton , selling crafts . that
they make .
WOODS They ,have a small storage building, built under a _wilding
Permit last year . They wish to occupy it with a craft shop .
I talked to Carl Saturday on details to be worked out . With
completion ' of . them , the ocuppancy 'could be satisfied .
TOTMAN : ( speaking t-o Mr . . O ' Neil )... . Do you have any problems . with what
he , talked . to you about ? "
O ' NEIL : We were riot aware that you " could not have a wood stove or kerosene
heater in the shed because of safety reasons . We decided to
go with electric heat .. and> . instead of being open most of the time ,
- we would•= be closed after Christmas until the nice weather ,
probably April 1 .
TOTMAN : From what Gary cited you from the , NYS Fire and Building Code ,
you are going. : to comply with that ?
;0 ' NEIL : Yes .
TWIGG : You say you will be fully . closed after Christmas , then you could
Tut in any type of heat you wanted to .
WOOD : Yes , as long , as, open to public must meet the Fire and Building
Code ,
TiuIGG : If you wanted to go out to work in the shed you could have a
kerosene heater because it is not open to the public .
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PLANNING BOARD - 2 - April 16 , 1985
OSTRANDER : Will there be any ,problem with parking?
TOTMAN : With the type of business , does it look like there is
enough parking?
WOOD : There is ample room . They could fix Darking area if they
needed it . Another thing I - had not discussed with them was
the sign requirements or restrictions .
O ' NEILa We did not know what we. had . to. have . The sign we propose is
approximately 2x3 , fee. t with two smaller signs hanging below
it :
. TOTMAN : Section 319 . 9 of the Zoning Ordinance gives a maximum size
of 50 square feet . .There is no restrictions on the distance
from the road . .
The O ' Neils are proposing a shop named Littl' e .Bit ` of. Country
Woodshope, the building meets the requirements , per the Zoning
Officer ; If they. put, up a .sign , it meets . the Ordinance
requirements and they have ample parking'. Are there any
further questions ?
VERL RANKIN made the motion the Planning Board approve the
Site Plan Review for a retail shop proposed by CARL AND DARLENE O ' NEIL at
596 West Groton Rd . in the Town of Groton ; CECIL TWIGG seconded the motion .
VOTE : All in favor ; motion carried .
Discussion with SHERRY O ' BRIEN * on Motor Vehicle Repair Shop
on Sharpsteen _ Rds in the Town of Groton .
TOTMAN : Gary Wood and Sherry O ' Brien have been in contact with each
other since our last meeting . We . discussed % : this '= problem at
the ' March meeting . Gary called . and said that Sherry would
like to come to this meeting and talk to us about what he is
doing .
O ' BRIEN : I would like to make a living with an auto repair shop .
TOTMAN : You made out the proper forms for the shop . _
0 " BRIEN : Four or five times .
TOTMAN : Have you understood why it has not been brought up , discussed
and passed by the various Boards ?
O ' BRIEN : I ' m not going to comment on that . I think the biggest problem
is the Zoning •Officer . I was misled in the first place by Dana
Sriell . ` He told . me I had to be registered with the State of
PLANNING BOARD - 3 - April 16 , 1985
New Yorke, that I had to go through . the County for a Sales
Tax Number ; then apply ' to Groton. I- went through all this and
the . next . thing I know the Town said I could not do this .
TOTMAN : When you got turned down did they , give you the reasons why
you were turned down?
O ' BRIENI Neighbors .
TOTMAN : Did they say anything about a fence or other structure ?
O ' BRIEN * Neighbors turned me down . We ' ve been hasseling for ten years .
TOTMAN , From what you are telling me , is not .what I heard . There is .
a Junkyard Ordinance and the Ordinance requires somebody to
apply and get approval , . pay a fee and keep the yard in com-
pliance with the Ordinance . The � Ordinance means the junk
cars are not. visible from the road ; the fence or barrier
does not der3,ct, from .the neighborhood . As . I understand it , you
were in direct conflict of that , Ordinance .
O ' BRIEN : A junk car is something you take parts off of .
TWIGG : Anything that is not °licensed .
TOTMAN : The Ordinance reads ' 2 or more cars , inoperable cars .
O ' BRIEN : These cars will run . How- do you consider them ?y junk . There
are three left there - now . I told Gary I would move them when
it dried off . The one ' next ' to the woods and two next to the
road . The rest I have , kAwo`- belong to me the rest all belong to
customers . I can have five licensed with my dealer ' s plates .
TOTMAN : Let me read the definition of the , Junkyard from the Ordinance ..
This is what we go by as a Board . ( read the Junkyard Ordinance )
Those are the things we have to go by .
O ' BRTEN : They are. not mines they are customers .
TOTMAN : All but four are not yours ?
O ' BRIEN : The ones I own are : 74 Ford pickup ; 71 Ford van ; 77 • Nova is
mine . It is waiting for parts . I have a 79 Honda for sale
plus my wrecker . This is what is burning me up ; when I called
down here this should have been put on front of me then not
ten years later . I don ' t know if you agree with that . or not .
TOTMAN : It is immaterial whether I agree or not . We are bound by what
we have to go by today .
O ' BRIEN : All I want to do is to be left alone and let me do my works
repair and sell cars .
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PLANNING BOARD -4- April 16 , 1985
TOTMAN : What the normal procedure is , if people apply for something
and comply with all the regulations they come before the
Planning Board , The Planning Board then holds a public hearing
and invites everybody from the . neighboring area ; from the
public hearing the Boards learns if applicant is not complying
the people will let them know . The Board does not vote
on just what everybody says . They do take into consideration
what- the people say . If the Board finds they are complying
they take that into consideration also .
O ' BRIEN : This should have been done five years ago .
WOOD : In June of 1979 Mr . O ' Brien did come before the Town Board for
violation of the Motor Vehicle Repair Shop ordinance .
The Motor Vehicle Repair Shop was turned down in June of 79
by the ZBA .
TOTMAN : Most of the people on the . Planning Board now were not on the
Board then . I think what we have to do now is what we looked
at some months ago . The Town Board says he is running a junk=
yard ; we turned him down for consideration of a Motor Vehicle
Repair Shop until he was clear with the. Town Board ; now he
wants to . do cars on the same property that he has the junkyard
on .
ROBINSON : I did not follow you .
TOTMAN What I am saying yas my first recollection of Sherry coming to
the Planning Board this past winter and applying for a permit
to run. a motor vehicle repair . shop . We checked at that time
with the Town Attorney , with the Town and with the Enforcement
Officer and on that same piece of property this person was
turned down for a junkyard ; and ' was still running a junkyard
and doing so without , a permit . There should be nothing
else allowed on that property - until he complies with the
Ordinance . There is nothing wrong with operating a motor
vehicle repair shop as , long is your not running a junkyard .
The question is what is determined a repair shop .
O ' BRIEN : Where do the customers put their cars when I ' m not . working on
them, if more than 2 are classified as - junk? In otherwords
Joe Hora is in violation ; Milt DeGraw has more than two unlicensed ;
Lane has more -than two .
OSTRANDER ; Did you apply for an application for a motor vehicle repair shop .
Did we say yes ? Lane and Hora have okay from us so they are
running in compliance with the Ordinance . The feeling we had
was' you were trying to defy us by not coming in .
O ' BRIEN : How do you figure I am defying you by not coming in . I found
out about this last meeting , the paper called me and wanted
to know what was going on . George Clay from the Journal
called me .
S
PLANNING BOARD - 5- : April 16 , 1985 ,
WOOD : May I refresh your memory with this letter ( letter dated January
22 , 1985 to Sherry O ' Brien from Gary Wood _ read to Board and
Mr . O ' Brien ) ? As a word of explanation I have talked with "
Sherry about a year ago now about. removing some of the vehicles .
Admittedly , I don ' t have knowledge whether they are the same
vehicles or not ; but . I do know there are two vehicles setting
by the hedgerow; two vehicles setting behind the woodpile and
there are two hulk 's of trucks bare of cabs and a pair of bodies .
In front of the yard there are seven . vehicles , two of which are
licensed . If I am wrong in referring to that as an accumulation
of junk , I will stand corrected . But that is the source of my
referring to junk .
O ' BRIEN : Did I tell you when the weather dried up I would move the vehicle
by the hedgerow? Are the vehicles there now?
WOOD : As far as I know , yes .
O ' BRIENe The vehicles you read off were not there Saturday .
WOOD : They certainly were .
0 " BRIEN : The truck next to the woodpile is still there , the cabs are gone ,
the Vega . is gone . I told you I would get rid of them .
TOTMAN : Have youlread and understand what the Town calls a junkyard?
O ' BRIEN : Truthfully , . no .
TOTMAN : If you were given a copy of what the Twon calls a junkyard
do you think you could comply with it ?
O ' BRIEN : What that is saying there , to make it , the way I understand it
. . . . the vehicles I , have : the 77 Ford pickup has been there a
Tong time ; the 71 van sets there has to be redone , its for sale ;
the 77 Nova is for sale ; there is a Dodge setting there ,
I took in on trade , it runs but is is junk ; a 71 Ford van
belongs to Buttras ; a 64 Jeep belongs to Brown ; a Fairmont
that belongs to Sandy and Ed Wells ; a 78 Ford pickup belongs
to Howard Smith ; a 77 Vega belongs to a girl in Trumansburge
there is a 77 T-Bird belongs to . . . . ; theres is a Fiat that
belongs to Carl Lowry ,
TOTMAN : They are all there to be repaired?
ROBINSON : How are they setting? Are they all over?
O ' BRIEN : Are they all over? Three are next to the garage ; down in
other part they are in a straight line except the Fairmont , the
truck and the van . , They are setting crossways , the rest are
lined up
PLANNING BOARD - 6- April 16 , 198
p 5
TWIGG : . What are you applying for ?
TOTMAN : At this time he is applying for a Motor Vehicle Repair Shop .
I assume with the intention that he will comply "with the Junk-
yard Ordinance . as we all , including Sherry, understand it .
That means if he ` decides' to have a junkyard he will have to
apply to the Town Board for a permit . ?
O ' BRIEN : . I have a junkyard in the Town of Dryden .
TOTMAN : Anything that you determine is junk you are putting in the
Town of Dryden?
O ' BRIEN : I swill rret rid of the ones by the hedgrow when it dries out .
What I want to do is stay with the lower driveway and
build it up - so there is a parking lot in there .
TWIGG : There is no use talking about a junkyard , that is not what he
is applying for . He . is applying for a Motor Vehicle Repair
Shop ,
TOTMAN : What I think would be in the - best- interest of the Towne there
are people on the Board who don ' t understand what . he is talking
aout and what he' has us there . I think we , as a Board should
look at what we ' re talking about - and decide what " to do with it
after discussing it with, the" Town ;Board at the next meeting .
I think then we can . make . a decision one way or the other
and be fair about it .
CAREY : I would like to see what - we are talking about .
TOTMAN : At the next meeting we will take things into consideration and
make a determination . We will set a - public hearing tohear
what the public has to say , ' .
PUBLIC HEARING set for Tuesday , May . 21 , 1985 , 7: 30 p . m .
TWIGG : The problem right now is he' not complied with what the Zoning
Officer has found .
WOOD : I don ' t thing that is exactly right .
TOTMAN : There has , in the past , been very bad disagreement from the
Town of Groton ' s point and Sherry O ' Brien ' s and a lot of people
don ' t like to be told what to do with there own property .
There has been defiance of the rules . It appears Sherry is
now saying he would like to comply with the rules , so lets
go forward with .what we are seeing today .
WOOD * One point , on the application it does not mention automobile
sales . Would it be proper at this point to amend the application?
PLANNING BOARD - 7- April 16 , 1985
O ' BRIEN : When Dana Snell talked to me he did not mention anything to do
with the Town of Groton with car sales .
RANKIN : The whole zoning thing has been changed in . the last ten years .
It was very liberal in the beginning.
TOTMAN : It was . stricter . He could not even do what he was doing out
there in - the previous Ordinance . You have .to take into con-
sider ion that Dana Snell is not with us anymore . A lot of
thing��7 appened since Dana Snell was the Zoning Officer .
You would have .to - agree , you knew over the last . year , Gary
has been leading you different than Dana Snell did . You
really have not been in tune with what Gary has said in the
last year .
WOOD : I never mentioned the auto sales required on the application
blank because I did not know he wanted .to do auto sales .
TOTMAN : You have cars all over your yard and all sorts of things .
If you ' re going to have sales how many would you be selling?
O ' BRIEN : Five or ten cars for sale ..
TWIGG: ItAs; really your: . re §pohsibi lity to know what the Zoning
Ordinance says . As I recall , this is what Hicks Dow said
one of the reasons for putting signs at the entrance of
the Town of Groton . ' Zoning Enforced ' . then it is ' up to the
people who come into Townito follow through and find out
what the Zoning is . He should have theZoning Ordinance
or have someone explain it to him .
O ' BRIEN : The only Zoning Law I have did not mention anything about
Motor Vehicle Repair Shop ,
TOTMAN : To summarize, we will „gas a Board , look over Sherry O ' Brien ' s
property , hold a Public Hearing on Tuesday , May 21 , 1985
at 7 : 30 p . m , and hold a Planning Board meeting afterwards
to make a determination .
Proposal by ROGER GLEASON for a Gravel Mine on Clark St .
Ext . , Town of Groton .
TOTMAN : We are all here who were at the PublicHearing except Cecil
and he can read the minutes from the Hearing . From the
comments that night it sounded like the Board had agreed to
the Mine . ,��41,At the Hearing I said we would be checking into it
further . I talked to Teresa and Colleen^ s;rid we set up a
meeting for : Monday , April 15 , 1985 at 10 : 00 to talk with the
DEC . The DEC people said if it was left up to them they would
PLANNING BOARD =8- April 16 , 1985
pass it as they did not see a problem with an environmental
impact. . There was . discussion as to - who would be the Lead
Agency . It was agreed the Town of Groton would be the Lead
Agency . ,/ That means the Town would give`;rules and guidelines
to DEC to put into' the permit for Roger , if the Planning
Board approves the request . At the Public Hearing I . told .
the people I would check with Cornelius "about their concerns .
Corny believes .there is a small amount of gravel there , it would
not paya person to open the land and use small trucks , it
would not be economical . He does not feel the trucks would
hurt the roadway because he is going to regork it in the fall .
He doesn ' t thing there is as much gravel as the owner thinks
there . is . There was the question at the Hearing about repaving
the road now because Roger wants to put a gravel mine in
there . The budget for road to be put in this summer or.
fall " was put in three years agoobefore there was any question
of Roger putting in the gravel pit . The Town is planning to
do that this September . With that being Ahe guideline , at
the earlier meeting it was discussed he should end the year
1985 gravel operations the _First of September . It was decided
the 1986 guideline .would be from May 1 to November l = and in
1987 from May ' . 1 to November 1 . It was decided the route of
traffic would be east - along Clark St . to Salt Rd . ; that Roger
would put up signs saying ' Truck entrance ' on each. side of
.
of the, driveway coming in and out of pit .
TWIGG : If Roger wanted to take a load out for say his driveway and
used a small: veh �61e to do it with would the route be the
same ?
TOTMAN : . That has no ' bearing on it *, .: We ` are` .talk ng about trucks that
would not normally run that road .
TWIGG : We would not come down on him?
TOTMAN : If I had a small truck and wanted to pick up a small load ,
it wouldn ' t be any more weight than going over that road now .
TWIGG : Could haul a gross of ten ton out of there .
TOTMAN : I have no idea how ' much a ten wheeler .will hold .
TWIGG : ,�, 20 ton plus the truck axle .
TOTMAN : You ' re referring - traveling without road restrictions?
ROBINSON : The Town is going to be working on the ' west end of the road .
TWIGG : If haul gravel out , makes ten ton gross it should not bother
the new highway? I should have asked Corny when he was here .
The big trucks cagy 20 ton plus the truck weight .
PLANNING BOARD -9- April 169 1985
TOTMAN : If he does not agree to the stipulations then it;obecomes .
Affirmative Action Significant Impact . It would be declaring
no significant impact with restrictions . If he does not agree
he won ' t get the mining permit which means no permit from DEC .
OSTRANDER : If left 'the way ' it is there would be less confusion on what
way the trucks should go .
PIERSON : The Town . roads are built for 4 :tons per axle . The State and
County roads are built for heavier traffic .
TWIGGv .. If we confine gravel operations to May 1 , is that just the
big truck activity? We don ' t have that listed .
ROBINS.ON : On those .roads if you put a_ heavy truck and have a lot of
trucks its's going to damage the road . You can ' t get in and
out of there in ' the winter anyway .
. ': 'CECIL �.TWIGG madenthe;,%motion" the Planning Board tentatively
approve the Gravel Mine ' .proposal by %ROGER GLEASON on Clark St . Ext . , Town
of Groton if Roger agrees before hand, to . the stipulations , then send the
proposal to the DEC with agreed°stipulations . • Stipulations being : 1 ) Gravel
operations to cease on September i .: forZ�' the year 1985 ,0 2 ) Gravel operations
conducted from- May 1 to November 1 for the years 1986 and 1987i 3 ) Route of
traffic from Gravel Mine would go east on Clark St . Ext , to Salt Rd . to
Rte . 222 ; 4 ) R . Gleason will post signs at the driveway entrance marked
' Truck Entrance'- ; 5 ) Gravel Mine operations are to be conducted during
daylight . hours . -
VERL RANKIN seconded the motion .
VOTES All in favor ; Motion carried .
A Public ' Informatioi 1: Meeting will be held _ Tuesday ,
April 309 1985 at 7 :. 30 p . ma to inform the public on the -Board 's decision .
Election of Officers : Chaired by N . Ostrander
V . Rankin nominated George Totman for Chairman ; N . Ostrander
seconded the ,hominationc VOTE : All in favor .
G . Totman nominated Mike Post as Vice-Chairman ; Cecil Twigg
seconded the nomination . VOTE : All in favor
1, C . Twigg nominated Nancy Ostrander for Corresponding Secretary ,
M . Carey seconded the nomination . VOTE : All in favor .
Above Officers were duly elected at the 'April 160 1985 meeting
. of the Town of Groton Planning Board .
-1 R 'e , - • . + v . i . ..
PLANNING BOARD 4 0- April 16 , 1985
RANKIN : We should discuss this Sherry O ' Brien thing ,
TOTMAN : We should all go up there and look it over .
WOOD : You should get together and make out a list - of the tings
you want him to do . He had the letter from me ; he was
suppose to be here.; he has not ,done that .
PIERSON : t ' You are . going with the Site Plan Review long procedure .
There . is a,- $40 fee plus advertising fee for that . Sherry
• O' Brien has ' .to be told -, this .
TOTMAN : Before he „was not relying, on 'the business As his bread and
butter . but today he is and : wants; to comply . .
WOOD : I have with he sat here and -told me those cars were gone
Saturday . I purposely made a list of what was there .
V . -. Rankin made the motion the meeting be adjourned = M . Carey . ,
seconded the motion . All in favor ; motion carried .
The next . regular meeting of the Planning Board will be, Tuesday ,
May 21 , 1985 at 800 p . m . or after the Public Informational Hearing .
Respectfully, submitted , -