Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout1985-04-03 R TOWN OF GROTON PLANNING BOARD PUBLIC, HEARING FOR PROPOSED GRAVEL MINE Wednesday , April 3 , 1985 BOARD ( *present ) - OTHERS PRESENT : George Totman* , Chairman Roger Gleason James L . Proper Nancy Ostrander* , Cor . Secretary Richard M . Cody , Sr . Lisa Proper Verl Rankin* Jon Harrington Ronald G . Ashcoft Monica Carey* Linda Harrington _ Francis Neville Michael Post * Rebecca VanGorder Teresa Robinson , Town Cecil Twigg Gerald. Goodale Supervisor Jim McNeil Guido S . Petrella George Totman , Chairman opened, the •Hearing at . 7 : 30 p . m , by reading the attached Notice for the purpose of considering application by ROGER GLEASON for development of a gravel mine located on Clark Street Ext . approximately one = quarter mile north of Old, Stage Road in , Groton , New York . TOTMAN : The purpose of this meeting is to acquaint ' everybody in• the area with what is going to happen to a . particular parcel of land . I assume the Town Clerk notified everybody thatkborders - that land . The normal procedure is the developer explains the plans to the people and you ask questions . I think we will have Roger explain what he has in mind . GLEASON : The whole project came about because I have a knoll in the middle of a field that, I want to get rid of . There is gravel in it . We are going to remove the topsoil , take out the gravel then put the topsoil back in . That is the reason for doing it . We have the plans developed and all the paperwork done to meet the State ' s standards. There has been a Mine Plan Use developed and we have a narrative here with maps. I don '.t know if anybody is interested in reading it . NEVILLE0 Would you pass them out so we can look at them ? GLEASON : Surely ; . ( copies. of the narrative passed through the audience for their information ) ( Roger placed a_ map on the wall ) This is a tax PUBLIC HEARING/PLANNING BOARD - 2 - April 3 , 1985 map . You all know where Clark and Old Stage Roads are . Clark goes north and proceeds across . a creek and up a hill and heads east . The site I propose is in the field * at the top of the hill by the creek . It consists of about 4 acres total . Not all of the acres will be mined at once . As we take out the gravel we will .be putting back as we progress . TOTMANS . How long is the permit :' for ? . GLEASON ,* The DEC permit is for 3 - year6 . , I don ' t . know how long it will take to do the job . I ' m assuming 2 to 3. years , CODY : Will it make gravel ? GLEASON : Yes , the Town has used some of it . CODY. : I ' m talking about commercial grade . GLEASON ; Commercially , I don ' t know . It is suitable for people who want gravel . CODY ! That means an open- face mine ? GLEASON : Yes , PETRELLA : Are you going to sell gravel itself or let others come in and take it ? GLEASON : Primarily , if I want a load of gravel , I ' ll load . it . I anticipate putting u a barricade so p g p people know it is not to be gone in and out of . Wwe principally sell the gravel to people who call me or we may make a contract with somebody , like Herb Tichenor , who might want several loads . If the County wanted gravel , the deal would be they would take it out . I ' m not going into business . I don ' t anticipate having a lot of equipment there , PETRELLA : How does the Town feel about you hauling tons of gravel over the new bridge ? GLEASON : I understand the bridge will stand the traffic . Right now it will have to go over Clark St . to Lick St . PLANNING BOARD/PUBLIC -3- Aril 3 ► 1.985 PETRELLA : When do you anticipate starting. to do business ? GLEASON : I would hope withint the month . PETRELLA : Is the DEC governing this themselves to make sure you backfill and do what your suppose to do ? GLEASON : Yes , I had to post a .bond . I made the plans to meet their specifications . The 4acrEs , n field ?PETRELLA : m GLEASON : It will be strictly in the field : NEVILLE : H :ow, many acres inthe` field? GLEASON & ' About ten in .all . J . HARRINGTON , You are only" go :i.ng .to take. the 4 acres ? PETRELLA : The plans say 5 ., . J . HARRINGTON * Is . that half of the field ? GLEASON : I:t . won ' t be involved Tall ' at � : once -. .;. ..--We will be filling in as we go along . The gravel will . be coming out -of 2 . to 3 acres of it . CODY : Did you draft the profile yourself ? GLEASON : It was done by the Soil Conservation , J . HARRINGTON@ Is . the mining- plan accepted by the DEC ? GLEASON To my knowledge . everything is done to their satisfaction until we have a Public Hearing and I post the bond ., J . HARRINGTON * Has a negative designation ' of the environmental impact been made ? GLEASONs I did submit one short environmental statement . On the Environmental Assessment Form , in the back , it said you do get a yes answer because it would be over 1 , 000 tons of gravel removed . I presented the mine plan ; . what they told me that answered the question that was raised on the form . PUBLIC HEARING/PLANNING BOARD -4 - . April 3 , 1985 CODYa I can ' t agree that is a positive statement until Impact Statement is signed . GLEASON : I don ' t quite understand your question . What exactly is the question ? J . HARRINGTON There, is no signature on the Impact Statement , GLEASON : There is an enviri.)nmental impact because it comes over 1 , 000 tons , of gravel . On the back , you project the environmental impact magtitude ( referring to Impact Statement Form . It indicates ' yes for more than one year for mining purposes , move more than 1 , 000 tons of material ' . There is some small moderate impact . Heavy trucks on the Town ' s ' highways . That I gues was an impact too ; that seemed a large impact . NEVILLEs Is that a County Highway you'. re coming out onto ? C7LEASON : That is a Town Highway . . CODY : . You don ' t . have to post a bond with the Town for the damage drone to the road ? If you pick up a thousand ton contract they could damage the road . HARRINGTON : That road is traditionally a problem area . . - . It. is . patched ; every year it has to be redone . L . HARRINGTON : The road is not wide enough - , for a gravel truck and a car or truck to pass . There are no shoulders . It is just not possible to pass . ' You are going - to _cross ,the bridge and :around the curve . I don ' t want to meet a truck going around that curve . GLEASON . . I talked to the Twon Highway Superintendent and he felt at the present time . . . not go over the bridge . • Right now ' I don ' t know what is going out of there . PETRELLA : What about the circumstances on the load limit on Old Stage Rd . ? GLEASON : They are not going the way it is posted : PUBLIC HEARING/PLANNING BOARD - 5- April 3 , 1985 ' PETRELLA : How are they going to get out of there ? They certainly aren ' t going to come into the Village . GLEASON : I don ' t know . I check on thF� Town Highway , PETRELLA : The Town can do things you and I can ' t do . You are talking about several trucks ._ There are a lot of things coming to light this evening ; I ' m glad I came . It is very evident there area lot of. things that have to be looked at at this point that make it difficult to . say yes or no . , I have to drive over the :roads ; so don ' t the rest of the people here . It is very evident there could be some problems . HARRINGTON : Could you pass the Environmental impact form around? GLEASON : Yes , ASHCROFT & Just in the last six months , late last summer or fall , that road was widened along my property across from the site which is just east of that point . Clark St . runs north and south at that point . The Town widened the road into my property . I don ' t know if they ran out of . . . , and did' not ._ do the , other side . I ' m concerned if if the road is widened , it should be anything is done to the road ; widened on both sides not just my property . In particular since Roger is not . sacrafici`ng his frontage to the right . of way . GLEASON@ The roads have a 50 foot right of way . . They have legal right to a11 .50 feet . I don ' t know what they did 'there . ' ASHCROFT * You ' re not the law and I ' m not the laws widening . on one side and not the other is legally not fair . TOTMANi Whatever we are saying here tonight is being recorded . Before the Planning Board makes a decision we will take these concerns to the . Highway Superintendent . . He is in charge of the Town Highways . PUBLIC HEARING/PLANNING BOARD. - 6 April 3 , 1985. Basically , Roger is telling you what he hopes to do . I know he talked to the Town Highway Superintendent . What he told Roger , I don ' t know . But he is going to talk to us before we make the final decision . whether the the 'road is going to take it or whether it will ruin the road . PETRELLA : I think that ought . to be public too . I think he should be here tonight He should make a commitment to the public not at a table . I ' d like him here to . make a statement and I would like it on the record . NEVILLE * I agree . CODY : You have a sight distance problem . You have a vertical curve at the bridge , adhorizo'ntal at Goodales ; ' you come around at 30 miles per hour you can ' t see . HARRINGTON , Mr . Gleason ' s dual wheel tractors no room for a car and the tractor . PETRELLA : That does not make the road wider . GLEASON . . I think they are going to make the road wider ; I don '. t know . PETRELLA : I hear that every spring and it has not been done . yet . If they are going . to make that statement I want it on the record . HARRINGTON .* The Environmental Impact . Form ; has it been ,accepted by the DEC ? This ' area of acceptance is blank . GLEASON : This is - what I sent to' them , HARRINGTON : Have you received ' a signed acceptance ?' GLEASON : ' Over the phone I was told : when the Town accepts my proposal I will receive it . HARRINGTON * You have not received a signed form ? GLEASON : No . HARRINGTON@ You were not told it .is in fact acceptable ? PUBLIC HEARING/PLANNING BOARD - 7 April 3 , 1985 GLEASON & The only thing I have is verbal : HARRINGT.ON : There are a whole number of environmental questions normally raised . Noise ; visual pollution ; dust , water pollution ; traffic ; any land use - changes which is not compabtible with existing land use . . All these have to be added . into the Environmental Assessment Form . All of these have to be prepared . They fall under the State SEQUOR Law , GLEASON : It is my understanding the Town will be the Lead Agency , HARRINGTON : The Lead Agency status is decided by mutual consent . GLEASON * That is what I understand , . HARRINGTON : You are saying an Impact . Statement is going to be prepared? That is when a Lead Agency is designated . , GLEASON : All I know is what they told me . ThEy discussed it with Teresa Robinson and agreed the Town would be the Lead Agency . • TOTMAN : Teresa Robinson met with the fellow from the DEC • and between them decided it would be best for . the Town to act as the Lead Agency : HARRINGTON : That is premature . It is` not to that point yet ., . POST : What needs to happen before it gets to that point ?' HARRINGTON : If_ this is accepted , an 'Environmental Impact Statement has to be prepared . POST : Who accepts• the Impact Statement ? What is the issue ? HARRINGTON ,* What implications there are . ' There is no indication - the DEC has or ' has not - accepted this . POST : Is it true the DEC has to' accept or reject or `can another agency accept it ? HARRINGTON : Any major project requires one of these forms that is uesed whether or PUBLIC HEARING/PLANNING BOARD - 8 - April 3 , 1985 not significant environmental impact . ' If the position exists then an Impact Statement must be prepared which goes into detail on all the possible problems and -how they can be mitigated . POST : This is a survey , not a statement ? HARRINGTON : . Right . The Statement ':states as law a Lead Agency is designated . ' PETRELLA : A statement was made earlier on ; he said if the Town or the people here accept this project then the DEC was going to say okay . HARRINGTON & I see no indication that is the case with . the papers given to us . GLEASON * The one will not accept without the other . POST : Go to the last page of the proposal Item No . 126 talks about approvals . George , is that the point we are at ? Who has .authority to do what ? TOTMAN ; As I understand it , the DEC has the final approval but they won ' t act until the Town has acted and the Town won ' t act until the DEC says everything is in order . First thing on the agenda get information from the public . We are collecting information tonight . Then we go back and contact the DEc and relay to them what we have , where we go from here . The Board will not act until the lawyer says the DEC is satisfied and . they have taken input from what -we are getting tonight . The real basis behind this gathering is to get the , impact from the . people . We are not . going to make any . move tonight . It is an informational hearing to get people ' s opint mnc . When you have these types of meetings you pick up things you did not know . You have got to go by what the facts are , not emotional feelings . The Town Highway Superintendent puts his impact into it . Basically , what we are doing tonight is listening to people in the community and seeing how they feel about it . Some people ; through their occupations have more PUBLIC HEARING/PLANNING BOARD - 9- April 3 , 1985 knowledge that we , the Board , do . POST ; It is established then that we are not judging . tonight , we. are here collecting input . PETRELLA ; Will we have . the opportunity to have Mr . . Cornelius present at some point before a decision is made ? TOTMAN ; ' We would . have to call another Public Hearing . We might have an information meeting . The Public Hearing the proposer has to pay for , I will have to check with the Town Attorney to see if you can force the developer to have ° two Public Hearings . The developer pays for that in advance . When we have the meeting with Mr . Cornelius maybe we could counter act that situation and have some way of letting the people. know . v PETRELLA : It is hard to say to Roger ' I don ' t want you to make a buck " but on the other hand Roger says ' If I destroy your road , you have to pay for it ' . I ' m not opposeiat all to the gravel beds but as I get more involved , it ' s going to cost us all some bucks and he is going to . profit . from it . We are going to pay to fix the road . I guess I could withstand the noise but if its coming out of my pocket I am having to look at it differently . " We don ' t know if the road is going to be destroyed ; but I ' d .like to have something concrete telling me that if this does come `together , ' I don ' t have to pay . for the new road when the trucks get done going on Old Stage Rd . What is the DEC going to do ? GLEASON : . . : . . . . . . . . . . . PETRELLA : They have . not been up to _look at it. . , . How .do you know hoe much gravel is in there ? PUBLIC HEARING/PLANNING BOARD - 10 - April 3 , 1985 GLEASON : We don ' t know . PETRELLA : I .think you have got to go further than one meeting .. There are other people involved here . What is going to be done to the road ; how far is the DEC into this thing? HARRINGTON9 1 think you can carry it, a step farther . , You have gone to the time and trouble to operate this ; there should be some indication it is worthwhile . Is that decent quarry . material ? ' Is there enough material there ? GLEASON : The primary goal is ' to remove the hill . If we get enough out of it , all to .the - good . PETRELLA : You can apply fora permit to pan the field and cover it up . HARRINGTON , If you . want to remove that knoll you can use that gravel on your farm without a permit . GLEASON : I have no use for that much gravel . HARRINGTON : If that is your primary objective. GLEASON : I. figure I got to get money out of it to pay to do the job . ` HARRINGTON : . I don ' t see that knoll is a big problem . GLEASON : On one side you can ' t take a hay wagon across it . HARRINGTON * I think before you go any further , ' if your going to truck east , everybody on that road should be aware of this . People with small children should be aware ten-wheel dump trucks are going to be on . the road . I think people , on the road should be ware of it . CODY : If after three years this became a flop , what would you do then? GLEASON * I have not crossed that bridge yet . If the thing goes we would probably have it done in three year's . ` We would. assess . it at that time . It can be closed back , pretty much , at any time , PUBLIC. . HEARING/PLANNING BOARD - 11 - April '3 , 1985 CODY : The open-face will be a problem with snowmobiles and three -wheelers . You should fence it for your own benefit . GLEASON : We plan to do that . CODY : . What about the signs . This has to be more involved than ' . t is . PETRELLA : There are two bad curves there . My driveway is blind . HARRINGTON $ In reality , there is no good visible access to that property . NEVILLE : I ' m sorry .the Town Highway Superintendent is not here tonight to give us his input. HARRINGTONd It . would be nice to have all the expertise available in the community . GOODALE : How many letters were sent out ? TOTMAN : I think the Town Clerk went as far as Petrella ' s and people whose property abutted the property in question . PETRELLA : Dave White got one ; I think if he knew the trucks were going to Lick Street , I know what his opinion would be . HARRINGTON : Anyone on the anticipated route should have been ware of it . CODY : Who is giving the trucks directions when they don ' t know when way they are going to go ? PETRELLA : George , I .would like to have. some idea what you are thinking about where we go from here ? TOTMAN : I don ' t know . This is new to us too . I had hoped that Gary Wood would be here tonight . He has done a lot of work with . this . It would have helped if he, had been here . I ` m going to have to go back and find out what more Teresa found out from the DEC ; contact them on what they are going to require . Suppose - the Town said ' yes , if okay PUBLIC HEARING/PLANNING BOARD - 12 - April 3 , 1985 with the DEC ' ? If . that happens we should know ahead of time what the DEC is going to require . HARRINGTON : You will have return of Environmental Form signed . TOTMAN : The indication I received from the conversation Teresa had with Moskiewicz of the DEC inlSyracuse , he has initially told ,her nothing wrong with it , HARRINGTON@ He has been knowri to change his mind , You need something in writing . TOTMAN : What we have to do now is meet . with him , go over the details with him and involve the Town Attorney before we make any decision and move at all . What I am saying is I really don ' t know from this point what is going to transpire , PETRELLA : I am very much against any decision being made without the . public back here again with more knowledgable people , CODY : You have several gravel pits in the area and all come out on State and County roads , ` The County seems to take that in - stride . When you ' re talking about Town taxpayers doing it , I don ' t things it is right . TOTMAN : We have got . input from ' the people ; we will go back over this . I really can ' -t tell you what we are going to do . It will involve more looking into . and checking with Joe Moskiewicz , PETRELLA : Let ' s set DEC aside . What about the roads ? TOTMAN : We have nothing to4do with the roads . Planning Board is an Advisory Board to the . Town Board ; we are all appointed . . You elect the Highway Superintendent . He is in :charge of " the roads . ._ y PETRELLA : We want to , know what he is going tto4 do.. . TOTMAN : Even the Town Board advises and talks with the Highway Superintendent PUBLIC HEARING/PLANNING BOARD - 13 - April 3 , - 1985 but he really is his own boss . To ask me what I ' m going to do with the . rads , I can ' t answer . He is the man you. elect to run the roads . In the majority of Town ' s people Corny retains a lot of respect from many people, . I don ' t think he would do something against the Town . PETRELLA : I want him and I want us to know that he -made a committment so that down the road they can ' t try to avoid. this . I think I may have come across! wrong . I am not saying Corny is not doing a good job . I just don ' t want him led in' the direction that is not the right way . I want situation when our roads are going to be fixed . The monies for Clark St . - were allotted a couple of times and it has never been fixed . HARRINGTON@ He is the person who should have input on the traffic : : ; how is it going . to affect the roads . i ' TOTMAN : It will, be part of the record . ASHCROFT . As a landowner across the street and not livng there at the time I i can' t raise objections to what Roger is doing with the property .. He is posting a bonds he has a workable plan improve the farmland and can make ' a buck in the process and return to a natural condition . What it boils down to is what about the road , Not Roger ' s . . . . . . j but a greater impact on the neighbors so the road is a major problem . We have lsome . concern whether the damaged road will get fixed . Some kind of . commi. ttment to make sure .the road is taken care of . TOTMAN : If- in fact it .is. going to bother the road . HARRINGTON , It is incombant on Mr . Gleason to demonstrate whether or not there is going to be damage ; by talking to Corny or hiring a highway ` engineer - to study the case or anything. in between . PUBLIC HEARING/PLANNING BOARD = 14= April 3 , 1985 NEVILLE : We need the road Superintendent here ; the Town Attorneys the top officials here to help the town and have another hearing . . ASHCROFT : You have nothing in writing from the DEC ? ROBINSON : One of the things you brought up you were talking about the road . The roadway has been planned for two years . TOTMAN: In the Spring of every year the Town. Board goes to the Highway Superintendent and take a tour of the roads and . then use that information to make the budgeTin the fall. I don ' t know how much dirt Roger has in ' there to sells but he probably does have as much as you think he does . I don ' t really think you ' re going to have that much gravel . GLEASON * I figure the maximum depth will be fifteen feet . It ' s not going to be that much gravel . NEVILLE : How far are you now ; about five to ten foot ? GLEASON ; That is the level we - are at now . We will maintain the center low to hav the water run to the middle and perculate away . GOODALE : To run over .onto- Goodales ' ? GLEASON .' According to the plan the center of the digging will be maintained to water puddle toward the middle : According to the Soil Consevation it should just perculate away . HARRINGTON * You have not talked with anybody in the Fishery about the trout stream ?. . no GLEASON : We�`aeddreessed that . I assume . Moskiewicz has . With the distance of the . . . . gravity , it should not be a problem . The water cannot run from the pit to the stream because the land gets higher . CODY : You are stockpiling all the . tope soil ? You are not. going to sell it ? GLEASON@ We will leave it aside and put it back . 4 r PUBLIC HEARING/PLANNING BOARD - 15 - AprilN3. , 11985 HARRINGTON : . You have no indication from Moskiewicz of the' plan acceptance ? GLEASONe Verbally . HARRINGTON : Before or after you sent in the plans and cross sections ? GLEASON : I talked to him on . Monday . and he said the Town will be the Lead AGencys he . said when they have made their determinAtion they would get back to him . At that point he did not see any problems . HARRINGTONs Your mining plan has no contours : on it . That is part of the requirement to the permit.. GLEASON : I was told we had everything we needed . If something is missing I don' t know about it . TOTMAN : L think 'we discussed this thoroughly tonight . The points made are good ones . We will ask Mr . Moskiewi,cz if Roger has everything . If not we will make sure he does . HARRINGTON & will the copy of the mine application , all the maps , all the cross sections be here in the Town Office for. our information ? TOTMAN : Yes . If no one else has any questions . or comments I will declare the Hearing closed . I , MARGARET A . PALMER , DO CERTIFY that at the Public. Hearing in the Town of Groton , Tompkins County , State of New York on a proposed Gravel Mine on Clark St . Ext . by ROGER GLEASON held on April 3 , 1985 , I did take the minutes of said Public , Hearing and the forgoing is a true and exact copy of . the best of my ability .