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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1985-03-19 sY v TOWN OF GROTON � PLANNING BOARD Tuesday , March 19 , 1985 BOARD ( *present ) �� OTHERS PRESENT *G . Totman , Chairman G . Wood , Zoning Enforcement *R . Gleason , Vice - Chairman Officer *N . Ostrander , Cor . Secretary Michael Lane , Attorney * C . Twigg I' Roger Gleason *M . Post *V . Rankin J . McNeil *M . Carey ( observing ) George Totman opened the meeting , ' Minutes ' of . the January meeting were read and approved 'on motion by N . Ostrander and seconded -by M . Post . G . Totman introduced Monica Carey as a new member of the Board to take effect April 1 and Verl Rankin as a new member to take effect immediately , 11 . Proposal by ROGER GLEASON to operate a Gravel Mine on Clark Street Extension , ' Town of Groton , Tax Map Number 121 - 1 - 21 . 2 . TOTMAN : I understand l there is a question of do you consider operating more than three years . At the end of three years the ' section of land will go back Ito farm land , GLEASON : If , the operation of mining goes for more than . three years I have to reapply tothe DEC . �I TOTMAN9 If we go through the normal procedure to approve the proposal , could we have that statement in writing and also ' a statement agreeing upon the hours of {operation? GLEASON , If the hours -are reasonable , . no problem , I� TOTMAN : . Mr . Lane , do 1{Ilyou have something to propose to the Board ? LANE : Not with resp.ect . to •the Gravel Miner What do you consider would be reasonable ; hours of operation ? TOTMAN : The Town Supervisor expressed it . would be a good idea to get that into writing ahead of time for protection all around . There have been instances in other towns where persons operating mines decided to work until , 8 or 9 o ' clock at times , II LANE : Could those requirements be made conditions of the Special Permit rather than ' a � formal agreement ? TOTMAN : Yes , PLANNING BOARD - 2 - : March 19 , 1985 . o GLEASON : There is one error on the Tax Map . There requires a correction.-: of the location of the mine on the map ; the place where the Town took out gravel in the Fall of 84 was on Clark Street . WOOD : (going - over the application with the Board ) You have a - property map , if you look at Section 440 of the Regulations , a boundary map is required . . You have a map generally showing where it is going . to be . . You have : a tax map that show the property ; an application ; . a. short environmental impact forms a mine plans a copy of a map showing in general the lay of the land ; a soils map and a survey map . This is what was submitted to the DEC ; and a map of the property on Clark ' Street extension taking a series of. sections through the operation . He has it plotted from A to F . He is showing the way the ground looks now . - He is going to take the top soil off and stack it tempor- arily . . Then , somehow after the operation is complete , he is going to bring the final grade to this level ( indicating map ) . We go down the sections to - the final grade of eight feet . Here is the existing gravel taken out . This brings to mind the question why we end up ide of . the sections . Normally , you would grade with a low spot ins it out so it . would drain away . GLEASON , It is made this way so that drainage will not go toward the creek . TWIGG : That ' s not a pocket there , is it ? WOOD ; The way it is drawn , it is going to be GLEASON * I don ' t think . so . LANEI I believe you are talking about a buffer area . He is trying to protect the stream there , . that is why it dips . GLEASON : The sketch does not show the: field to the north To the north it is lower than the existing entrance : ' I think ' it is going to lower the field in line with the north field . This grade refers to the north side of lot because the northside is lower . TWIGG9 Did he say the percualti'on ofkthe ' soih. is ' such that no water is going to set there ? WOOD : It is going up the hill , the same sort of area the gravel will be mined from and going along , a line . The final section is the other stock pile area . This will be removed and taken back to the original ground level . TOTMAN : This has been submitted to the DEC and to my understanding they have not given a negative response to it .. GLEASON : He told me it is a matter of getting all the details together . OSTRANDER : Do they have to have our okay before they okay it ? PLANNING BOARD - 3 - March 19 , 1985 TOTMAN : We have to hold a Public Hearing . After we hold a Public Hearing we vote yes or no . I think that is all Roger needs . GLEASON : You approve on the basis the DEC approves and they approve on the basis that you approve . TOTMAN : We do have to hold a Public 1Hearing . GLEASON ; There is an Environmental Impact Form , POST : Is this the same site we talked about before ? GLEASON0 Yes . We had a limited permit before . POST : You are planning to . take out a small amount now and -want to take out larger amount than granted before ? GLEASON : Yes . TOTMAN : We are going over the information , asking questions tonight and when you feel you have your questions answered we will set a date for . a Public Hearing and move onto Roger ' s other proposal . WOOD : The mining map refers to perculation of soil . As a way of avoiding problems in the future I think you might consider in March and December the perculation not going to be very high ; you consider requiring the soil piles be seeded so it will not . wash and secondly be well to construct a small catchment area . GLEASON : I think LaMotte ( surveyor ) addressed that situation in the Environmental Form , LANE : We could get a statement from . Mr . . LaMotte , concerning that point . GLEASON : I suspect the top soil will reseed itself . It can ' t go to the south to the stream directly . In the north it ' -becomes flat and goes through a hedgerow and travels another hundred feet before it gets to moving at all . LANE : Could you ask what the Town Board thinks the hours of operating limitations should be so that Mr . Gleason can agree whether they are sensible and reasonable ? TWIGG : What would be wrong about daylight . hours ? . OSTRANDER : How about 7 to 7 ? TWIGG :' The Town starts at 6 in the morning . TOTMAN : They don ' t usually work after 6 at night . PLANNING BOARD ' -4- March 19 , 1985 GLEASON * I guess I would be reluctant to agree to that . - If I lease . to people to draw out on a part time basis , I don ' t expect to be late but circumstances might result in late work , I don ' t want the limit set too early . TOTMAN : You have to . think of the people living in the area . OSTRANDER * Kids could get in there , too . TWIGG : Would daylight hours be acceptable to you ? GLEASONe That would be acceptable tome . t MICHAEL POST made the motion that as part of the Special Permit operations be limited to daylight hours ; CECIL TWIGG seconded , the motion . VOTE : All in favor ; motion carried . OSTRANDER * Are there any requirements you . have - to have - like having it fenced off or signs for No Trespassing? GLEASOPd : I wondered `about . that . : What I would have to have . I assume I would need something for my own protection . LANE : You have to take any steps that a reasonable person would take . OSTRANDER : For a swimming pool the Ordiance requires a fence . How deep would this be ? . GLEASON : '8 or 10 feet . OSTRANDER : How far is it from the road ? GLEASON : 3 or 4 hundred . feet . PUBLIC HEARING set for April 3 , 1985 at 7 : 30 p . m . at the Town Hall . PLANNING BOARD -5- March 19 , 1985 Proposal by ROGER GLEASON for a Rural Sub -division of three parcels on Old Stage Road , Town of Groton Tax Map 20 - 1 - 40 . . . . TOTP4AN : Previsously Roger submitted a subdivision proposal of three parcels land and he wanted to land lock one parcel . This is the proposal :. we turned down because of the way the Ordinance was written . Roger is resubmitting the proposal . LANE : In your . letter of November 20 you referred to Section 287 . 5 . . This is a confusing Section . I think what it is referring to there is a strip kept on the edge of a subdivision to prevent intersection of roads . I think rather than prohibiting a five acre agricultural subdivision . I think the section was misinterpretated . I spoke with Jack Fitzgerald and he had- similar feelings that the section did not - apply in this circumstance .. . Mr. . Gleason would like to divide into three lots each of which will be at least five acres . The two parcels having frontage on the road would be sold for residental purposes and kepp , ..a fifty foot roadway. to .the back acres . He has no plans to divide that fifty foot strip . . TWIGG There was one question . He was going - too have a right = of-way down through there . It was going to be sold with the rest of the property . He was not going to own . that strip .. . LANEsk The initial proposal was to keep the strip ; one idea. was to keep a right - of-way . Effectivoly it will do the same thing . Retain a persons right to go over it but not to have ownership . TWIGG : You ' re talking a reserved strip . If he is going to keep it . GLr,ASON : It does not matter to me which way I do it . TOTMAN : The way Jack Fitzgerald explained it to me was if he sells those three parcels he makes agreement to have :eight - oaf-- way with pruchasers that is no business of ours . . Are you still planning to sell the back lot to Mr . Brown ? GLEASON : If he is willing to buy it : TOTMAN : There would be a problem with the 200 foot frontage . LANE ; What problem? TOTMAN : ., Our Ordinance calls for 200 foot road frontage . If he sells to an adjoan:in.g property owner that ' s part of the land . TWIGG : That. 200 feet is for residential . WOOD There is no minimum lot frontage on non- residential . You can ' t creat a lot in an RA Zone with frontage less than 200 feet . r PLANNING BOARD - 6 - March 19 , 1985 OSTRANDER * Is it allowed any where else? LANE : I raised that question when I reviewed the Ordinance myself . TWIGG : What the 200 foot road frontage is suppose to do is that everybody has . , room enought , so nobody is dwelling on top of each other . LANE : It does cause a problem . ` I ' m trying to say , we' re stuck with the Ordinance and trying to put restrictions on the back lot so there is no problem . TOTMANr . I see no problem approving the subdivision now because Jack told Gary and me the same thing as Mr . Lane has said . ' The porblem for Roger was he said he was going to sell to Mr . Brown but now hey is not . GLEASONe I will sell it to Mr . Brown or any other neighboring property owner . TOTMAN : I don ' t think it is fair to . Mr . Gleason to put him in a distressed sales situation . We ' are cnfronted with the Ordinance , TWIGG : We can ' t do this ; we creat . a lot ' with no , frontage . OSTRANDER ! I think we are going to have to address this more than this time . Farmers are going - out of .business , ' selling - land ;.- want t.ng to keep farmland in the back . TOTMAN : This Ordinance is going to have to be changed by the Town Board if it is going to be changed . TWIGG : There are a number of lots in the Town with that same problem . GLEASON : I ' m perfectly willing for the stipulation the land be sold but not just to Tom Brown , TOTMAN : Stipulation could be to one of . the adjoining land owners . LANE : That would work , TWIGG : We can ' t do that we are - creating a landlocked lot . TOTMAN : If in order to be passed , that lot has to become one of the adjacent owners . OSTRANDERo What happens if we go to the Town Board and get ' the change , does he have to . come back again to take out the : 'stipulation? LANE : He is going to ; have problem selling withoLt approval from you . PLANNING BOARD - 7 - March 19 , 1985 TOTMAN : It would be in Roger ' s best interest to pass this with the stipulation that that piece of land be sold to an adjoining landowner . OSTRANDER : It won ' t be landlocked if it is sold to one of the parties around it. . Roger will be the owner if not owned by adjoining landowner . He can sell one ; before he sells the second lot he has to include it with the second lot or sell it to an adjacent property owner . TOTMAN : Does that make sense ' to you , Gary ? WOOD : , Yes , in context of what we have been talking about . TOTMAN : You ' re not going against the Ordinance ; you ' re abiding, by the Ordinance with the stipulation of sale : GLEASON : I can sell one lot without coming for approval . MICHAEL POST made the , motion that the Planning Board approve the Rural Sub -division proposal by ROGER GLEASON on Old Stage Road , Town of Groton with the stipulation that Lot 20 - 1 - 40 . 2 of 5 . 72± acres be taken cam of by selling to an adjacent landowner before the second lot can be sold . V . RANKIN seconded the motion . VOTE : All in Favor ; motion carried . The Board studied . the ,map of proposed abondoned roads ' by the Town Board . . ' Abandoned road ' means the Town .does not take responsibility for their maintenance any more . : The Town Board asked input from the Planning B'oard . on proposed roads and any suggestions or knowledge of additional roads . Other suggested roads , besides those listed were : Town Line Road from Munson to corner of W . Groton Road ; - section between4Schofield Rd . to Buck Rd . . This meeting is Roger Gleason ' s last meeting as a member of the Planning Board , GLEASON : I have enjoyed . working on the Board and I hope in the course of events one thing you watch the diligence of your business you don ' t lose sight of the fact land is something . people have pride in owning and get upset if they get the feeling they are regulated too much . I get the feeling the Planning and Zoning Boards are headed to stepping on people ' s toes . TOTMAN : I - would like to say that Roger has been on the Planning Board for 18 years . He was one of the first members appointed to the Planning Board , G . WOOD reported on the S . O ' Brien situtation . Mr . O ' Brien had a Motor Vehicle Repair license that has expired . The Motor Vehicle Department would ' have no problem issuing him a new one if he . applied- for one . He also PLANNING BOARD -8 March 19 , 1985 has a Dealer ' s License that is current and valid . The situation is to the point where the Town will have to take Mr . O ' Brien to Court to get .him to comply with the Ordinance . Mr . Wood will report back to the Board on further proceedings . V . RANKIN made the motion the meeting be adjourned ; C . , TWIGG seconded the motion . All were in favor and the motion carried . The next regular meeting of the Planning Board will be Tuesday , April 16 , 1985 at 8 : 00 p . m . Respectfully submitted , Margaret A . Palmer