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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2019-12-10TOWN OF GROTON - MINUTES OF TOWN BOARD MEETING TUESDAY, DECEMBER 10, 2019 AT 7:30 PM THE TOWN HALL, 101 CONGER BOULEVARD Town Officers Present: Donald F. Scheffler, Supervisor Richard Gamel, Councilperson Crystal Young, Councilperson Brian Klumpp, Councilperson Sheldon C. Clark, Councilperson Michael Perkins, Highway Supt. April L. Scheffler, Town Clerk W. Rick Fritz, Code Official Francis Casullo, Attorney Robin Cargian, Deputy Clerk Town Officers Absent: A. D. Dawson, Town Justice John Norman, Town Justice Charles Rankin, Bookkeeper Also Present: Ben Nelson Tim Buhl Richard Lu Rachel Clar Dan Brocht Daniel Spitzer Frank Heine Andrew Sullivan John Benson Travis Dunn MOVED by Supervisor Scheffler, seconded by Councilperson Gamel, to approve the minutes of the November 12, 2019 meeting as presented. Ayes - Clark, Young, Klumpp, Gamel, Scheffler RESOLUTION 419-105 - APPROVE PAYMENT OF INVOICES MOVED by Councilperson Gamel, seconded by Councilperson Klumpp WHEREAS, vouchers for Abstract #12, numbered 552 - 596 were reviewed and audited by the Town Board, be it RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby approves said vouchers for the accounts and in the total amounts as follows: Code Fund Totals A GENERAL FUND 9,416.32 B GENERAL FUND PART TOWN 25,570.60 DA HIGHWAY FUND 29,259.30 SL2- PERUVILLE LIGHTING DISTRICT 160.81 SLI- MCLEAN LIGHTING DISTRICT 265.21 Total: 64,672.24 Ayes - Clark, Young, Klumpp, Gamel, Scheffler Nays - Resolution Passed Monthly Reports: Charles Rankin, Bookkeeper - Was not present but had submitted monthly reports for the Board's review and requested budget transfers. Town Board Altmites Page 2 December 10, 2019 RESOLUTION 419-106 - 2019 BUDGET TRANSFER MOVED be Supervisor Scheffler, seconded be Councilperson Clark RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby approves the following 2019 Budget Transfer: General Fund, Town Wide From: Contingence. _1990.4 ................................$2.600.00 To: Justices, Clerk Personal Services. All l 10.13..........200.00 Town Clerk, Personal Services. _1410.1 .............2000.00 Buildings. Personal Services. _1620.1 .................400.00 Ayes - Clark, Young, Klumpp, Gamel, Scheffler Nays - Resolution Passed RESOLUTION 419-107 - 2019 BUDGET TRANSFER MOVED be Councilperson Young, seconded be Councilperson Gamel RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby approves the following 2019 Budget Transfer: McLean Lighting District.- From: istrict.From: _appropriated Fund Balance. SL1-911 ......................$300.00 To: McLean Lighting District, Contractual. SL1-5182.4....... 300.00 Ayes - Clark, Young, Klumpp, Gamel, Scheffler Nays - Resolution Passed RESOLUTION 419-108 - 2019 BUDGET TRANSFER MOVED be Councilperson Young, seconded be Councilperson Klumpp RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby approves the following 2019 Budget Transfer: Perarille Lighting District.- From: istrict.From: _-appropriated Fund Balance. SL2-911................$200.00 To: Peniville Lighting District. SL2-5182.4...............200.00 Ayes - Clark, Young, Klumpp, Gamel, Scheffler Nays - Resolution Passed RESOLUTION 419-109 - 2019 BUDGET TRANSFER MOVED be Supervisor Scheffler, seconded be Councilperson Clark RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby approves the following 2019 Budget Transfer: General Find, Part Town: From: Contingence. B1990.4......... .....$1.644.00 To: Joint Louth Program Director. B7320.41 ....... 1,644.00 Ayes - Clark, Young, Klumpp, Gamel, Scheffler Nays - Resolution Passed Town Board Allnutes Page 3 Derendrer 10, 3019 W. Rick Fritz, Code/Fire Enforcement Officer - Submitted monthly reports for the Board's review. He said that when the weather is nice, people are busy and when the weather gets bad no one calls. nlichael Perkins, Highway Superintendent - They had been busy plowing and sanding. Our pennnit with DEC has been renewed. He is thinking about filling the laborer position as one of the employees is considering retirement. We would have to advertise that. He would like to buy a small sander for the one -ton truck for around $4.000.00 to use in the parking lot and around the building. They will check with the Bookkeeper to see if there is money in the accounts. April L. Scheffler, RMC, Town Clerk/Tax Collector - Submitted monthly reports for the Board's review. She had nothing else to report. Francis Casullo, Attorney for the Town - Had nothing to report. John J. Norman and A. D. Dawson, Town Justices - Were not present. Councilperson Crestal Young as Representative to Joint Youth Program - Had nothing to report. Ben Nelson, Groton Fire Chief - To date, they are at 991 total calls compared to 900 for the year last year. A lot of that is due to EDIS calls, which have quadrupled from about 60 to 220 right now at one facility. They are working to get that number down somewhat. They are at 172 fire calls. There was a shed fire on Devlen Road over Thanksgiving. Santa is coming on Thursday at 6:30. They will have hotdogs, chili, photos with Santa, and gift bags. They usually get 100-150 kids. They are working on year-end reports. Election of officers will be January 8, 2020. He wanted the Board to know that 2019 marks Ed Smith's 60th year with the Fire Department. SITE PLAN REVIEW - ABUNDANT SOLAR SPECIAL PERMIT APPLICATION Daniel Spitzer, Attorney for Abundant Solar - Introduced Richard Lu. President of _abundant. Rachel Clar, Project Manager, and Dan Broclnt from LaBella. We obviously want to answer your questions. We've been speaking with Fran. We appreciate you time. The most important thing for us at this point is getting an opinion one way or another on the support for the PILOT. If the answer's no, we'll go home. If the answer's yes, we'll keep going forward. Dan provided information responding to your questions. I want to say on the record: I really appreciate it: I came in last month and asked you to move things forward and it was like that, like the nest day. I really appreciate it on behalf of my client on how quickly the Town responded. The developer has changed the project to respond to some of the things that were mentioned about the amount of trees that were potentially being removed and define the specific project that's in front of you. The site plan was confined. We reduced the impact to the sensitive areas by 2700 or so. So, we're ready to move forward with the project if we can afford to build it. That's why the discussion of the PILOT is so important to us, as it was before. As I mentioned in my cover letter. I understand the issue of the tax breaks. We're on board philosophically completely. We just believe that the tax break you're concerned about are ones that shift tax burden. If you bring in workers, they don't pay their fair share, but you have to pay school taxes, you have to pay police, we understand that. This is a project that will reduce taxes locally. It will pay the fiull burden for fire: no break for the fire part. They do not need any other sen7iees from the Town Board Allnutes Page 4 Derendrer 10, 3019 community. Any money they provide, in addition to the taxes they are already paying, you can use as you see fit to reduce the tax burden or otherwise. But this is wealth creation as opposed to a tax break that is shifting the burden onto you in order to allow a project. So. I hope that you would pass a resolution supporting a PILOT, by no means definitive. It's not the end of the world: you've got to approve the project obviously, which means you've got to be happy. But we'd like to get that support and we'd like to get moving. Attorney Casuflo - We had a chat. I think. I spoke with counsel this afternoon and clearly to put it on record, they need to know one way or another about the PILOT. If it's yea, we continue on and if it's nay, they go home. I think we also agreed that if the Board has any questions of you to help with their decision making relative to the PILOT, they could do that. And then with the understanding that if they needed, not a lot more time, but we would agree to bold any SEQR. and site plan review requirements, until they can make that decision. I think that's a fair gist of our conversation? Attorney Spitzer - It is and I'm not aware of anything, you don't have any subdivision, so there's nothing that you're looking at for default approval in any way. What can we do to help you understand the plan or move this forward? Councilperson Gamel - I think you just said that we can narrow it down to exactly what it's going to be. I don't see the what megawatts.... Attorney Spitzer - Five megawatts. It's a five -megawatt project the way it's currently situated. Now if they get out there and they find, no wait there's something we didn't see, or the congestion comes back with a problem, it may shrink. Not likely to increase though unless we come back to you. With the site plan that Dan submitted, it's five megawatts. Supervisor Scheffler - I think one of our concerns is not if it goes up, but it goes down. There has been some concerns and questions about whether the lines and substation will handle five. I think that's part of the information from the NYSEG interconnection agreement and we haven't seen that. So, we don't know. Everything is based on the megawatt output, the way I understand it, on a PILOT. So, if you end up only doing two, it makes a difference. Attorney Spitzer - Well, since you don't like tax breaks, it's less of a tax break. That's correct. If they come back and say we can only build one megawatt, we'd probably go away. We don't build one megawatt projects. There's a report that is done that's call a CSIR report, and Richard can explain this or Dan can better than I can. It's an interconnection study. Once we know this is a financially viable project, we'll go forward and order that study and get it done. Then we'd come and tell you. This is what I mean by, if you issue your support, it's not done. It's not done until you approve a site plan. It's not done until a building permit is issued. So, we are intending to build, based on what we're aware of, that there is five megawatts of capacity on the line and that's where we intend to build. If the study comes back and says no you can't build here obviously, we go away. If it comes back a number that's significantly reduced from five megawatts. I'm not sure it makes financial sense to build a two -megawatt system. We're not going to build a two -megawatt system. It's just too small. It doesn't make sense for us to do that. The five -megawatt limit is what the State sets as far as the limit in terms of the program we're in. That's why it's a five -megawatt project or they break it into multiple projects. But a two megawatt doesn't make sense. (He turns to Mr. Lu, who nods his agreement.) If there was a substantial decrease, this won't get built. Councilperson Young - And I think you said at the last meeting that we could include in our PILOT that it would be based on five megawatts no matter if it was four or three. Attorney Spitzer - _again, you can ask for it to be, it's a dollar amount per megawatt, but it's a three -megawatt project they can't afford to pay at $8.000.00 a megawatt. The bigger the project Town Board Allnutes Page S Derendrer 10, 3019 the more money I can give you. This PILOT that this county asks us to pay at $4.200.00 is larger than any surrounding county for all -in costs. In Allegany County where I represent the IDA, we have five projects of similar size: $3.500.00, all in. In other counties in surrounding area, in Wyoming County I represent three towns that are putting in solar projects: it's $3.500.00 per megawatt, all in. Couneilperson Gamel - How mane megawatts is Newfield? Attorney Spitzer - Said he wasn't familiar with it. What we're offering is, what we would love to see the IDA do is, frankly, lower the PILOT. And what we would say is we would give the community $4.200.00 per megawatt, all in. But if the PILOT was lower, we'd make the difference up to the Town. In most other communities the all -in number is not all a PILOT: it's a PILOT and a host community agreement. So, let's say, for example, in Allegany County the PILOTS are $2.500.00 per megawatt for projects this size. The other $1000.00 is a host community agreement that's paid only to the Town. When you have towns, they are always the smallest share of the PILOT. So, the IDA here has been a pioneer and got out there in front and helped the whole state because of the way they took it on and set up the police. But frankly, if the number was lower, we're not lowering our number. If the PILOT was lowered, the difference would go to you. I apologize if I wasn't clear about that. We also have a situation in Wyoming County: They have a Board of Supervisors, which means the towns nun the county and also nun the IDA. They also have a rile there that 8000 of any project, the money has to go to the towns. There's four giant wind fauns in Wyoming County and 8000 of that money, which is $8.000 per megawatt, goes to the Towns, none of which has any local taxes. You don't have that here. What I'm asking for is your support for a $4.200.00 PILOT all in. I'd love to sit down with you and urge the IDA to lower that number with the understanding that we'd still pay the same amount of money but we'd pay the difference directly to you. Supervisor Scheffler - So, our engineer has brought up a bunch of questions, that you got a copy of. You're not interested in talking about them? Attorney Spitzer - Dan is here from LaBella and he's happy to answer any questions you have. As Fran and I said, and I really appreciate the effort Fran's put in over the last couple of weeks to talk to nue, the most important thing for the company is to know whether we have a project to move forward financially. But we're absolutely ready to discuss any of the things that were provided to you. Mr. Brocht - Most of the comments revolved around the size of the disturbance and the fact that normally when you disturb that much area you have to do a SWPPP (Stone Water Pollution Prevention Plan). It's something we do for all the sites. In this case, what we did originally, as you are aware, was almost the whole site. _after going back and numing the numbers for the solar panel array, we've limited it: we've kind of condensed it into the middle of the property with one little mound like a camel's back. We did reduce the size 2700 overall. What that number does, it cuts down on a lot of these comments. It doesn't eliminate the comments, but makes a lot of those comments easier to address, whether it's disturbance, drainage, stone water pollution prevention. I also would like to reiterate that though we show the size being.. Councilperson Gamel - This is the latest map, right? How come it's dated April l lth? Attorney Spitzer - We had a number of different ones that we put together at different times and one of the questions here was what one are you actually building. That is one that was prepared, but that's the one that we submitted that we're building. Mr. Brocht - So, as far as the date goes, when we first get a parcel we go through a whole bunch of different scenarios. We've actually got nine megawatts, seven megawatts, five megawatts, three and a half megawatts: what would it look like: what are the numbers: what makes the site Town Board Allnutes Page 6 Derendrer 10, 3019 feasible. So, this, what you're looking at, this is five megawatts, is a site that we looked at. Like I said before, we can always go small, but what we try to do is put something out as the biggest that it would go with the understanding that if all of a sudden, pending NYSEG, you can put nine megawatts here, but we're only proposing five megawatts, we have to come back to the Board. If we're going smaller, normally it's easier to reduce because all your doing is making your setbacks bigger. I will say that when we look at a site like this, there is the ability to move the panels around. If when the spring comes, we find that there's a wetland delineated out there, which is something we have to do for all sites, we will analyze to see if we are going to infringe on the wetlands or if we can move the panels out of there to limit the disturbance. Some of the comments were the setbacks to the State route. There is the ability to push the panels in another direction. What we do is try to take the points of concern and minimize the panels in those areas. We like to have some consistency throughout the site. What we do is listen to the comments, whether from Tim, or the State DOT, or the County, all those comments go into our revised plan. The nest step for me would be to redo my drawings, incorporating all of this: do an actual SWPPP: contact the DOT: look at the topography: and try to make the site a little more condensed. Then I would have a sit-down with the representatives from the Town staff. Town engineer, whoever was there. We would look at the plan as a whole to go over any engineering concerns that come up, again to try to minimize them before anNqhing is even approved. Supervisor Scheffler - We consider the completed application with all that stuff done, with the DEC pennits, wetland delineation, and all that as part of site plan review. Mr. Brocht - So we can use topography and the DEC projected wetland area from their mapping online and we can put all of that on our map. But as far as going through and doing a delineation, topography, normally, one the weather, so we wouldn't be able to do it until spring. But we could go out there with the understanding that when we did find where the wetlands are that we have to route around it. It's something that we would have to come back in here and say, you know what, delineation showed that we had a wetland in here. We have to make sure that the revisions are acceptable to the Board and to the Town and to the Town engineer. It's a long process for us, so we start with what are the concerns. We can start a SWPPP: all of that will be finalized in the spring. Councilperson Gamel - My major hang-up right now is finding out. I know you're not going to go any bigger than five, but what if it's two and a half, what if this is three. When do you find out in the process what this system can handle? I spent some time entailing Heather McDaniel after our last meeting and she put together a proposed incentive outline with the total payment of $21.500 for the first year. She also put a sample tax distribution and we don't get a whole lot of that. Most of that goes to the school district. County and then us. We are looking at it that we are representatives of the Town and of all that money, we get very little of it. So, that's where my hang-up is. If that goes from a five to a three, there's not a lot of money in it for us at all. I don't know if we could salt the roads for a day. Mr. Brocht - I understand what you're saying. Attorney Spitzer - You know from talking to your attorney that you don't make decisions on zoning based on money. We've asked you to support the PILOT but you're not doing contract zoning, you're not buying a project. You are correct that if it's a four megawatt project, three megawatt project ........ We would like to give more of that money_ to you and we'd be happy to talk to the IDA. Couneilperson Gamel - But we have to think of the best thing for the Town of Groton as well Town Board Allnutes Page - Derendrer 10, 3019 Attorney Spitzer - Okay. So, if this is three megawatts, that would be $15.000.00 into the community that's not currently coming in on a piece of land that's not likely to be developed otherwise. Councilperson Gamel - You make it sound like $15.000.00 is coming here. Attorney Spitzer - No. $15.000.00 into the community is what I said. And like I said before, we'd be happy to talk to the IDA about potentially reducing their number and keeping the total the same because that would be more money to you. But this isn't contract zoning. We don't sell our project. Councilperson Gamel - Understood. We're looking at what can be brought into this community as a tax base in lieu of this. Are there four or five houses that could go up? Attorney Spitzer - You know that houses, typically residences will provide only 8600 of the cost to the community whereas businesses provide between 10300 and 10800 depending on which economic grid you're looking at. Residences always take out more and are subsidized by businesses. So, if you converted all of this to houses, that would be, in effect, be shifting the tax burden onto you. Councilperson Gamel - But if it was a different business, they would be paying the frill assessed value. Attorney Spitzer - I've got to tell you, as someone who has done a lot of economic development, with due respect. I don't know of any business that's coming into New York State that isn't getting any tax break. If you can show me any business that's spending five million bucks in this state without a tax break. I'd be delighted. But I represent a lot of IDAs, worked with a lot of IDAs and have an idea what's going on with the State economic development organizations and I don't know of anybody who's investing in this state and paying frill freight. So, with due respect. I'm not sure that's correct. Councilperson Klumpp - But the people who are paying the frill freight are the businesses that are already here and established, which is the problem I have with PILOTS. Attorney Spitzer - I understand why that's the problem with PILOTS: if it was a tax shifting PILOT: if you were bringing in something. Councilperson Klumpp - It's every PILOT. You and I are not going to come to an agreement. You're not going to convince me and I'm not convince you. It's not a level playing field. Attorney Spitzer - But there is a difference between those entities which cause burdens on the communitv and therefore actuallv create a tax burden on you even if they create jobs as opposed to those that increase wealth into the community. So, if a medical office came in. I won't speak for the IDA of course, but in most areas, you can get a tax break for a medical office. You may get a few more kids in your school: they're not going to pay frill freight. You may get police calls. The Fire Chief was talking about a place that's currently getting a lot of calls. You get a facility like that, they're not going to pay their frill freight. This facility it's frill freight. It might not be 1000o taxes, but it's not going to cost the community anNqhing. That's why I think this gentleman is talking about opportunity costs. As far as the landowner. I suspect if it was possible to develop it in another way, he would have. It's a fair question about opportunity cost because you're talking about a 20 to 25 -year period. Mr. Brocht - So, as far as getting back to the comments, we'll have to do a SWPPP for the sight no matter the size. That will be something that will be reviewed an approved. Wetlands will be something we'll have to do in the spring. Like I said, we'll have to get a set of plans to go to the DOT and get their comments back. Everything gets pulled in together in the end, but it's Town Board Allnutes Page 8 Derendrer 10, 3019 something that we're able to analyze the site pretty well now days and adjust where we think the problem areas are going to be and address them in our preliminary SWPPP, in our preliminary set of plans when we present them to the Board. So, that's something we'll just keep working toward and bring you more information as we're able to. Supervisor Scheffler - I'm just looking at item 4 here, access drive details. I think that could have been done with a DOT pennit. The wetlands delineation, it has been about two weeks short of a year and you're saying now you can't do it until spring. Mr. Brocht - Well, a lot of the items that come up are a large expense, and what we try to do is get the project in the preliminary stages through the Town so that we get a positive reaction and we know that the project is moving along. As soon as this process gets rolling again engineering -wise, all these things will be put into the process. Obviously, the wetland delineation, we won't be able to do that until early April or late March depending on when the DEC says it's the growing season. As far as the entrance penmit and contact with DOT, that's something we will initiate as soon as Abundant feels comfortable that the project is going to move forward. Then I will be released to spend more of the fiends to put in for DOT applications, the wetlands plans, get more analysis done on the site. Supervisor Scheffler - So, it's fair to say you don't want to continue until you have a PILOT agreement with us and the IDA? Richard Lu - I'm the president of Abundant Solar, a New York Company. I understand why we're spending this time here and looking at developments. Every town is looking for investments: looking for tax base: looking for the best of all the taxpayers. We actually work with 52 municipalities in Ontario. We are working with seven counties within New Fork. We are actually the largest community solar developer in New York, Maryland, New York City and Washington. D.C. Our job is bringing investments to something that can benefit the State policy. which New Fork State has a community solar policy. Our job is to invest in a community where we are welcomed, where people have a lower electricity cost, let alone, not to mention the economic development. So, when we go to a community, we're always looking at what's the best we can do for this community subject to the economics of the project. So, when we bring your pension fined money, your bank's saving money, they require a fixed income over 30 years. Because of that, as you, looking for an investment, you're always looking for a return. So, that return is predicated on the cost of the site, or the land we buy, the overall engineering costs, and our legal costs, and construction, and so on and so forth, and we should hire local electricians and mechanical people to do the job. It also depends on our on-going costs of the project. So, if you look at those things. I would say this project itself brings an investment that without this project you probably wouldn't have. There may be some other project, some other solar developer. However, this opportunity is in front of you and we are willing to bring as much money as we can to this property that you will have an ongoing tax rate for 30 -plus years, because the panels are good, they're warantied for 30 years. What we are asking for is your support so that we can enter into discussions with the IDA. We need to agree to talk to the IDA to review their amount so that we can give the Town more money because the project can only afford so much. What you're asking for here, all can be done. But the project itself has to make sense first. I have to bring the opportunity back to my investors so that they say, yup, this one has a chance. I cannot spend other people's money, including your bank money, your insurance money, and your pension fiend: all the money then at the end of the day you say, well we don't support this ... (not speaking into microphone)... That is not a fair practice in any sense. So this is where we are in the development world. When we identify an opportunity, we are trying to bring as much money, as much investment into the community and to the consideration and policy support, local community support and the landlord that has no other opportunity, choose Town Board Allnutes Page 9 Derendrer 10, 3019 to go with this. I understand you want ...... (cannot bear on tape recording).... We are saying that we don't want to push this onto you if you don't feel comfortable. But I will tell you that without your support for us to go to an IDA PILOT.....we simple do not have the right to continue to spend other people's money, which includes your pension fiend money, your bank money, your insurance money, to continue to spend other people's money based on this offer. So. I would ask, if you could, look at whether with your consideration, this is something that you'd like to have in your town. I don't agree with saying, it's okay, we go home. This is not why we're coming here for. The first day that we came here was the worst day of the year and you took the time to meet us here and we appreciate that. But I do need the support to say, yeah, we support you to negotiate with the IDA. If they give you a break, that's great. They may not give us a break. It's okay too. So, that's my first point regarding the PILOT. The first time we came here we proposed a five megawatt project because that's what the utility allows us to build. Then we hear the Town feels that because the land can accommodate two projects and the Town mentioned is there any way you can increase the amount of money that the project can afford. The only way to increase this is to make it bigger. That's why we went back and produced a nine, a seven megawatts. And so we go on and go on. And then the last meeting, that the consideration is three, even though ......... (cannot bear clearly on tape)....but we respect your opinion. We make it as big as you want and then you say no, no, no on the trees. So, we will shove it back. We try to accommodate the locality as much as we can because for us, if we can bring the money to this coni nunity, and other communities, and other coni nunities, that's what we work for. So, if you want a five, we do a five, if you want a nine, we do a nine, if you want a three, we do a three. But there is a limit because no matter what you do the utility is still going to charge a basic rate.....the dollar amount per megawatt will always remain the same. If you support us, we'll make it as big as possible because there's more to share. If you support us to go to the IDA, to talk about......... more money for a host community agreement. There is an opportunity to consider, the land concerned, it could be building a palace, the White House could be moved there, possible, but what is the likelihood? What is the probable? What is going to happen on your watch, when you are making a decision for the future of the Town? So, for that. I ask for you consideration. If at end of day you still feel that you have to do everything possible to the ninth degree, then you will tell us support or not. I do not have the right to spend my investors' nnoney. Couneilperson Klumpp - I'd like to make a motion that the Town Board support a PILOT agreement between _abundant Solar and the Tompkins County IDA. Councilperson Young - I'll second it. Supervisor Scheffler - Any further discussion on it? Couneilperson Gamel - So, you want to take a vote on it? Couneilperson Klumpp - I'd like to take a vote on it this evening. Supervisor Scheffler - We are voting on supporting or not supporting? Couneilperson Klumpp - We are voting on supporting an agreement, or the right to negotiate an agreement. Attorney Casullo - The motion is are you going to support the PILOT agreement. A couple things, if we're in the discussion phase, is I wasn't aware until today, that there was a possibility of the applicant going back to the IDA and saying we want a host community agreement, which is relatively popular in a number of other areas. Attorney Spitzer - Oh, absolutely. And I understood the motion as it was phrased, you're not committing to a PILOT, you're not committing to the project, you're giving us authorization to Town Board Allnutes Page 10 Derendrer 10, 3019 go to the IDA and negotiate the best deal we can for ourselves and for you. And based on the discussion today, we're certainly going to ask the IDA to lower their share so that your share comes up. Couneilperson Klumpp - But you're still not going to be anywhere near paying frill taxes even with a community host agreement. Attorney Spitzer - How much is your current tax rate, all -in? Couneilperson Klumpp - The Tompkins County _assessment Department told me that they assessed the solar fauns and taxes would be around $30.000 per megawatt. It's not going to be even close to that. Attorney Spitzer - It depends on what the assessment is and what the tax rate is. I don't know what your school tax rate is. Couneilperson Klumpp - Sure, but in general, whatever you negotiate with the IDA isn't going to come close to paying frill taxes. I wanted to make sure that was discussed. We aren't talking about giving the Tompkins County IDA and _abundant Energy the ability to negotiate and somehow that negotiation comes close to frill taxes. That's not going to happen. It's going to be right around the number that you're looking at. Attorney Spitzer - The first years, you're correct. Here's the way PILOTS work: When you get to year fifteen, it would be very close. Couneilperson Klumpp - I think the number we were given over the 20 years was $520.000 and that would be Town. County and School, compared to $3.000.000 based on the $30.000 per megawatt. Attorney Spitzer - I agree with your math. The only problem with that is that the _assessor is assuming that these projects are worth more each year, and these projects, unlike other assets are worth less each year because the panels decline about a half of percent a year and the PPA (Public Power _agreement) nuns out. When you buy a piece of property the assessment is based on what a willing buyer will agree to pay a willing seller. So, if be puts this project together and be packages it up, he's got a thirty-year revenue stream. That's what a willing buyer will pay. Fifteen years into that, when the exemption nuns out, they're not going to be paying anywhere near $30.000 per megawatt. I have more tax assessment cases for or against solar projects than anybody in the State and you've got to understand the tax curve, unlike the PILOT curve, doesn't go up on these projects. But you're right, the PILOT is nowhere near the frill price. Couneilperson Klumpp - That's all I wanted to point out. Councilperson Young - If I remember correctly, there's no way that we can be in those negotiations, is that correct? Attorney Casullo - Didn't we pass a local law, saying that we wanted to do our own PILOT? Several Board Members say that they opted out. Attorney Casullo - I think there was a reason to opt out. Couneilperson Gamel - There was a reason to opt out, so that the IDA didn't just take it on. Attorney Spitzer - Your opting out has nothing to do with the IDAs authority. 487 is totally separate. What I always tell my clients that don't like these projects, is don't opt out. The law saes you're entitled to a PILOT up to the frill amount of taxes. When you opt out, you tell anybody that puts solar panels or a small wind generator on their own house that they can't have a tax exemption. But you can say to this developer or anyone else that comes in, we don't like these, we want frill taxes as our PILOT. There's never a reason to opt out, because that really Town Board Allnutes Page 11 Derendrer 10, 3019 only hurts residential and small fanners. You have a right to demand a PILOT if you stay in even if it goes to the frill tax amount. In this case, we're talking to the IDA. The IDA is totally separate from 487, doesn't matter whether you've opted in or out. That's why I tell my clients don't opt out. If you don't like the project, tell them it's frill taxes. I don't like it because of the negative impact on residential and small business owners. _also. I'm not aware of any reason why a Town representative could not be part of the discussion with the IDA. Supervisor Scheffler - We can be part of the discussion, but we can't be part of the decision. Attorney Casuflo - That's my understanding. I think you might be able to be part of the discussion but they don't allow you to be part of the decision. Attorney Spitzer - But actually, this IDA Board has made you part of the decision because I thought they said they won't give a PILOT without your approval. Attorney Casuflo - They won't give PILOT unless they have a resolution in support of a PILOT. Then, if I understand it correctly, once you give support, they basically say thank you ver, much, we'll take it from there. Supervisor Seheffler - And then we're done with any suggestions or anyqhmg else. Attorney Spitzer - But you still have to approve the project. Attorney Casuflo - You still have to approve the project but as far as negotiating the PILOT. you are out. _after you give that resolution, the IDA handles the entire negotiations of the PILOT and whatever numbers come up at the end. The Town doesn't have any say. I think that's an accurate statement. Supervisor Seheffler - That's the way I understand it. That's why, if we were to hand it over to them, we'd like to see everything that is going to happen. That's why we like to see a frill application with all the stuff in front of us. Councilperson K umpp - I don't think that even matters at this point because any changes will be miniscule. I expressed, in the last two meetings that we've had, bow I felt about the unfairness of a PILOT to the existing businesses. You can put whatever cost -benefit spin on it that you want. That's very valid but it takes away the fairness with a capital "F". Attorney Spitzer - I get your values and I have no problem with that. Councilperson K umpp - The dollar figures can be shown to make sense. A lot of these projects, when you take a microscope and just look at the solar project or look at that other business that's going in and getting a PILOT, if you're just looking at that one thing it makes sense. But when you're telling the other forty businesses in the Town of Groton that we're giving these people a break but because you're here, and we know you're going to still be here, you're going to pay the frill shot. If you try to reverse things, it doesn't make sense, well it makes sense, but it's not fair. Tim Buhl, Engineer for the Town - When I did my reviews, it was more like a technical review of the documents that you had in front of you, not realizing that the PILOT was a key feature to this. I didn't want you to be put in a position where you were trying to approve a site plan and give a conditional pennit if that was going to be a requirement on the documents that we have here. I spoke to Dan and be said that as part of the process we upgrade as we go along, which is fine as long as you're not put in the position of having to approve something in the short tern that is incomplete in terns of the technical aspect of it. I understand you're wrestling with the PILOT and I agree that it's a tough decision to make. I just don't want you to say that this has to be done to the ninth degree before a PILOT decision is made because I don't think this is going to make much difference in terns of the economics. Town Board Allnutes Page 13 Derendrer 10, 3019 Councilperson hlumpp - Yes, it's two separate issues. Councilperson Gamel - So, if this is a yes vote, we put this in your hands to go negotiate. Are we at a $4.300 maximum? Heather told me that's where it stands? Is that where it stands? Attorney Spitzer - My client has told me that they can't afford any more money all in. What I'd like to do is go to the IDA and negotiate a PILOT that, frankly, is lower so I can give you all in. We are not asking the Town to take an all -in number, we understand that this motion is to take the all in number for the community that the IDA requires. But we'd like them to, frankly, change the split so that more of it comes to you. Councilperson Gamel - But the $4.300 is the cap. Attorney Spitzer - That's the cap that we can afford, and it really is higher than we're paying in most other places. By the way, all these PILOTS are all public information. Councilperson Young - Well, you said last month $4.300 to $4.500. You said you didn't expect that we wouldn't try to negotiate. But with this, you would negotiate with the IDA and then negotiate with us on a host community agreement. So. I think... Attorney Spitzer - We have to move forward. If it came back at $4.300 and the answer's yes, if we give you the other $200, that's $1.000..... Councilperson Young -Yes, I understand. I was just stating the fact that there was room for a little negotiation if necessary. I like the fact that, hopefully you could negotiate with the County to bring that down so we would get more of it. You also mentioned, which I thought was interesting and a benefit, was you talked about a lot of times the infrastructure is upgraded and that's a benefit to the Town as well. Councilperson Gamel - I need this to be crystal clear for me. I we vote yes on this and we put it in your hands, other than shutting the project down at that point, we really can't, if the IDA says, no, this is where we're stuck and you're not putting any money into the infrastructure, and we're not getting a change, then what Heather sent me is pretty much it. Is that correct? Attorney Spitzer - That's certainly, if you want to look at it financially, as a worst-case scenario, that's a correct statement. But there is no possibility that we wouldn't be putting something into the infrastructure. We don't know the amount but it could come back at such a high amount that we couldn't afford the project. That's one of the steps that we can't afford to take without knowing whether it makes sense to have the discussion and do the CSIR. But, it's not just a matter of putting in a meter. You have to make sure that the system has the capacity and if it doesn't there will be improvements. But if you're saying what's the worst-case scenario financially, that sheet in front of you is a fair statement of a worst-case scenario deal. I'm not sure from your expression if I answered your question properly. Councilperson Gamel - I think you did, but do you understand the position we're put in? It's like handing you the key to the candy store and when we're done we may end up with a pocket frill of candy or the worst-case scenario. Attorney Spitzer - Except that here's the situation. You are not allowed to make zoning decisions based on money. We're happy to come in and explain why we don't think that a tax break hares you. But the zoning question in front of you is not based on revenue. Those are land use provisions. So, if you're saying you're committed to anything, absolutely not. You've raised issues environmentally why this project may not pass for you. Attorney Casullo - The biggest issue, we keep going round and round. The issue. I think that is the hardest thing for this Board to make a decision on is that you're being asked, at the end of the Town Board Allnutes Page 13 Derendrer 10, 3019 day, is the PILOT. However, you have no say in the agreement itself. I don't know bow other counties do that. I think other counties let some....... Attorney Spitzer - It depends on whether there's been opt -outs by the school more than anything else. It's the school taxes you generally can't afford. We have a number of towns where the client is paying frill town taxes because the town taxes are not a big deal: it's the school taxes. In New Fork State, according to NYSERDA, there's not a single project like this that's been built where they're paying frill taxes. So, if we weren't in a situation where we have to talk to the County IDA, we wouldn't talk to the County IDA, we'd be negotiating with you, the school and the county. Councilperson Young - But from what I understood, was that even if we didn't opt out, we still wouldn't be able to negotiate this PILOT: we'd still have to go through the County. Attorney Spitzer - That's not true. Councilperson Young - That's what the County told us. Attorney Spitzer - So, here's the law. And by the way, the County doesn't tell you how to run your zoning operations. If you have a situation where none of the entities have opted out, you can negotiate your own PILOT if we go through 487. We haven't gone through 487 because you gave the impression that it's a waste of time, because you opted out and we thought others had also. But if you opt back in, yes, you can negotiate your own PILOT if we don't go to the IDA. The Tompkins County IDA set the standards in the State and said to the communities, we'll take the lead. And what they've done, in communities that go through IDAs and don't. I'm serious, it's really helped the industry greatly, because they set a model for how to do this even though the numbers are different. In a number of places, for example in Niagara County. Town of Lewiston, none of them have opted out, so I have negotiations that have dragged on for a year with the Town, the County and the School. But it's the three entities that are making the calls: they're not going through the IDA. That IDA, by the way, takes the same approach, they won't approve a project unless the locals all approve of it. So, it depends if 487 is in play. If 487 is back in play, then we can negotiate with you. We certainly can't negotiate with you while you're opted out: that's not allowed legally. If there's no IDA exemption, you're not allowed to grant a 487 exemption for yourselves. Councilperson hlumpp - I'd like to vote. Supervisor Scheffler - Does the Board have any further discussion? There is a motion on the floor. RESOLUTION 419-110 - SUPPORT PILOT AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE TOMPKINS COUNTY IDA AND ABUNDANT SOLAR MOVED by Councilperson Klumpp, seconded by Councilperson Young RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby gives its support for a Payment in Lieu of Taxes (PILOT) Agreement between the Tompkins County IDA and Abundant Solar for a proposed solar array located on Cortland Road in the Town of Groton. Ayes - Young Nays - Clark, hlumpp, Gamel, Scheffler Resolution Denied Attorney Spitzer - I want to thank you. I know that may be a little unusual, but the two meetings I've been here, you've been extraordinarily respectfiul, extraordinarily helpfiul, and Town Board Allnutes Page Il Derendrer 10, 2019 though I'm not happy with the result, and I think you're making a mistake. I really appreciated the time and effort you put into it. Supervisor Scheffler - Thank you. Richard Lu - Thank you. Board members say thank you. RESOLUTION 419-111 - SET DATE AND TIME FOR ORGANIZATIONAL MEETING MOVED by Supervisor Scheffler, seconded by Councilperson Klumpp RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby sets the 2020 Organizational Meeting for Tuesday. January. 14. 2020 at 7:30 pm, followed by the regular monthly meeting. Ayes - Clark, Young, Klumpp, Gamel, Scheffler Nays - Resolution Passed Discussion took place pertaining to health insurance benefits. If a frill -time employee does not wish to take the health insurance offered by the Town, it is the policy of the Town to pay that employee $1.000.00 each year. It has never been clarified as to whether this applies to frill -time elected officials. RESOLUTION 419-112 - CLARIFY HEALTH INSURANCE BENEFITS MOVED by Supervisor Scheffler, second Councilperson Gamel RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby declares that frill -time elected officials will be entitled to a $1.000.00 pay out if they do not take the health insurance offered by the Town of Groton, the same as all other frill -time employees. Ayes - Clark, Young, Klumpp, Gamel, Scheffler Nays - Resolution Passed RESOLUTION 419-113 - APPROVE 2020 CONTRACT WITH THE TOWN OF GROTON HIGHWAY ASSOCIATION MOVED by Supervisor Scheffler, seconded by Councilperson Klumpp RESOLVED, that the Town of Groton Highway Employees be granted the following for the Year 2020: 1. 40o raise in pay across the board. Ayes - Clark, Young, Klumpp, Gamel, Scheffler Nays - Resolution Passed Town Board Allnutes Page 15 Derendrer 10, 2019 RESOLUTION 419-114 - APPROVE 2019 GADABOUT CONTRACT MOVED by Supervisor Scheffler, seconded by Councilperson Young RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby approves the 2019 Contract for Services with Gadabout Transportation Service. Inc., in the amount of $1000.00. Ayes - Clark, Young, Klumpp, Gamel, Scheffler Nays - Resolution Passed Privilege of the Floor Frank Heine - I just recently learned of these discussions, debates, and frankly I am flabbergasted that you people have thrown this opportunity out the window. There's no way in the world that this isn't a win, win for everybody. If you think you're representing the best interests of this community with the decision that you just made, you are totally fooling yourselves. This is crazy. This would have been a win, win for everybody and I guess you guys just don't get it. I'm very disappointed in the representation that you're providing here for the citizens of this community. I think you have not acted in their best interest and I'm extremely_ disappointed. Supervisor Scheffler - Thank you. _anyone else? Attorney Casullo - On the other project that we do have, the cell tower, you understand that the ZBA did pass with some modified variance approvals. We're supposed to be going before the Planning Board on next Thursday. Clerk Scheffler - Only if they have their updated.... Attorney Casullo - Look. I talked with the attorney. There's an issue with the map. This is the issue with the map. _-\jnd I haven't made a decision: I want to talk to Tim Buhl about it. The only change to the map that they are working on, they just don't know if they're going to get it officially, is the changes that the ZBA required them to make for the variance. Namely, they required them to increase the size of the road. They might not have it done. The question becomes are we going to just say that it's only going to be on for a sketch plan because they didn't have time to get that done? That's the only significant change to the map. Councilperson Klumpp - How could they not? I was there at the ZBA meeting and it's a simple change. Attorney Casullo - I don't know. But is the issue going to be, and I haven't made the final call. I'm going to make it with Tim, but I wanted you to know, that's the request is do we, and ultimately the decision is going to be with me, is do we say that they can't come forward and move forward or do we have to hold it as a sketch plan, which quite frankly, to me is just a waste of time? We're going to have a sketch plan next Thursday, what are they going to show us? They're going to show us the road sketched out while we wait for the regular map, right? So. I almost thought, why have a meeting next week if all we're going to have is a sketch plan? We know what it is. The size of the road got changed because that's what we required. So, at the end of the day. I do agree, it's the one question I talked with Matt Derwin about, geez. I guess the 11th is some deadline it's got to be? Clerk Scheffler - I don't know who set that deadline, whether it was Mark or not, but we have to get everything out to the Planning Board a week before the meeting. The requirement is to have everything to us ten days before the meeting. Town Board Allnutes Page 16 December 10, 3019 Councilperson Klumpp - That's the only thing that's not been changed? Did they not revise anything? Attorney Casuflo - They have the map with their surveyor incorporating the changes that were made but if you remember, the variances really weren't all that significant as far as changing the map except for the road. Councilperson Klumpp - Yes. It's twenty minutes to change the road. Attorney Casuflo - It would be great if we had the map, obviously, it would be great. But to me, and this is just me, if they don't have it on the l 11h, and they could have it on the 131h, do we stop? To me why have a sketch plan if we know the map is on its way. Councilperson Klumpp - So you're asking the Board...... Attorney Casuflo - No. I'm just letting you guys know. Clerk Scheffler - No, you can't make that decision. That's a Planning Board decision. Attorney Casuflo - It's a Planning Board decision but I wanted the Board to be aware of it. That's all I'm saying. I do agree with you. Brian, why it's taking so long. I don't know. Announcements Planning Board Meeting - December 19 at 7:30 pm Zoning Board of Appeals - December 18 at 7:00 pm Association of Towns Annual Meeting - February 16 - 19. 2020 There being no further business. Councilperson Gamel moved to adjourn, seconded by Councilperson Klumpp, at 8:52 pm. Unanimous. April L. Seheffler, RMC Town Clerk